Need Electrical Help - Dual USB & Cigarette Outlet

[conrya5]

Hi everyone,

I decided to install a Dual USB Outlet and Cigarette Outlet on my 250. Got everything wired up and installed neatly, looks good but..
the outlets do not work. This also involved installing an accessory fuse block.



I read 14 volts going into each socket on my motorcycle. I also bench tested the sockets with 12 volts going in.
The green LED on the Dual USB light up but would not charge my mobile phone during the bench test and the cigarette outlet worked fine.

I have included the wiring diagram that shows exactly how everything is wired on my bike; please take a look and see if there is anything obviously wrong.



My next move is going to be bypassing the ground bar and go directly to the neutral side of the battery from the sockets.
Also, I'm not sure if the correct size fuses are in the accessory fuse block.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

[Alex]

Don't see anything wrong with the pic. Are you sure the relay is working? Is anything live on the accessory fuse box; can you test for current there?

[conrya5]

The relay is functioning correctly, lets power through when ignition is on and opens circuit when ignition is off.

I'll check the voltage at the fuse box.

[conrya5]

Got a reading of 12.75 volts at accessory fuse box.

Bypassed my ground bar and the green LED on the USB light up! But would not charge my phone..

[conrya5]

I plugged in my iPod which usues a different USB cable than my Samsung USB cable for my phone and wouldn't you know, the iPod charges....

[Bob2010]

Maybe it's the USB....

[conrya5]

My brother's iPhone charged also. I guess it is the Samsung USB chord

[conrya5]

The ground bar is not what I thought it is. I thought it was one common bar but after taking a closer look it appears to be separate terminals.

[conrya5]

this is what I need

Still not sure why my Samsung phone wouldn't charge

If anyone is interested in a how to for accessory outlets or the location of the accessory fuse box, let me know. I have step by step installation pictures.

[baxtc1]

It is not in the cord, if you plug your phone into the computer with it, it will work.
I had the same problem with my samsung in the car with the exception that it did work for about 8 or 9 months, then stopped working.
Glad to see you have it sorted.

[dooby]

My knowledge in this area is a little sketchy, but I believe it might be to do with the phone's charging requirements and how your USB socket works.

I think by default USB only guarantees to supply 100mA over the power lines, and the proper way to request the higher current of 500mA is for the device (your phone) to request that of the host (a dumb socket in your case, but could have been a laptop for example) presumably over the serial lines.

Perhaps the phone or cable is being super strict to the protocol and won't go into high current charge mode since it's not getting the expected response from the "host"? You might find a cheap generic cable will give different results if the logic is in the cable.

If you want to investigate further, you could build (or buy) a short USB extension lead and splice an ammeter or multimeter into the positive power wire in the extension cable and watch what it does when the iPhone is attached and when the Samsung is attached.

I guess you could also rule things out by seeing whether the Samsung and official cable works with any old wall USB adaptor, on the assumption that will also be a "dumb" host not honouring the full USB protocol.

HTH, Pete

[conrya5]

My Samsung phone does not charge out a USB port in my car's stereo unit either. I'll look for a generic cable and try that out to see if it is the cable or the phone.

The Samsung USB cord will charge my phone when plugged into a computer.

If I really need to charge my phone on my bike I will use a cigarette to USB insert. Now I'm thinking of just installing 2 cigarette outlets, I can always switch the sockets out as needed.

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Where did you get the dual USB port? I think something like that will be perfect fro my needs.

[conrya5]

It is manufactured by Blue Sea, I bought it on Amazon.

Blue Sea Dual USB

The square trim piece shown on the socket on Amazon is removable.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Thanks!

[conrya5]

No problem!

This USB Socket requires drilling into a part of your bike, or I suppose you could zip tie it on somewhere. The socket also has a green LED light that will always be on when there is power to the socket.

You may want a switch for it as well as an in-line fuse.

[LittleRedNinjette]

I actually had something similar on the bike. It was on a battery tender style cable with a fuse in it. The plug went bad because it was a cheap POS . I'll probably just use that cable, i like the placement on your bike so i'm thinking of doing the same thing. Its a nice clean look.
I like the switch idea too.....

[conrya5]

The placement I chose for the sockets turned out to be perfect for fitment and the clearances with USB / power cord in the cigarette socket appear to be great.

I would definitely use the in line fuse and switch to prevent draining the battery. That is why I used the relay in my set up.

I used a uni-bit to drill the hole.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Ahh, ok. I'm defiantly not an electrical wiz here. So if i run it like you did, through the relay, that would eliminate the need for a switch?

On a side note that may be why the old plug fried....

[conrya5]

I would recommend the relay method, I preferred that over using a switch.

[LittleRedNinjette]

Ok, i'll go with you on that. Thanks for the advice!

[Leaky]

Your Samsung charge issue is 99% not your fault or the fault of anything else. Note that I don't remember the numbers or sites (I'm at work) but I have this issue in my Car with my S4.



Samsung needs a stronger current to charge its phone. The samsung wall USB charger actually shorts one of the non-essential data wires initself sending a signal to the phone that it's A-Okay to "speed-charge". Some computers can do this too with certain USB ports.

You can google something like "Samsung usb cable short" or something along those lines that will come up with a few results. Alternatively you can try to up the Amps on the charger if you can, but the phone might still reject it and charge MUCH slower. I can leave my phone charged on the work PC for the full day and it charges like 20-30%. I can do that in 30 minutes at home.

Do the solder at your own risk though. You can also install an app/new OS for android with it built in. Afaik Stock samsung firmware will not allow it without their charger.

Note that the method used for the charger blocks data (since it shorts those wires to "send" a signal). so you might want to use a spare.

(IIRC you need a 2A charger to keep any sort of flow going).

[Asspire]

Most phones will charge (draw) at 500 ma when connected to a usb port on a computer, laptop, car deck etc (phone will only charge at this rate when it detects its connected to one of these devices because of hardware limitations and to keep it from frying stuff). Wall chargers will charge at around 1800 ma max with a micro usb socket (phone will detect its not connected to pc and charge at full rate). Your phone is charging at the lower rate, so it will take a LOOOONNNGGG time to see the battery percentage move.

The way the phone determines the charge rate is by looking for signal (continuity) on the data lines (two middle wires in a usb cable). Most usb chargers (plugin cigarette lighter ones) will charge at the lower charge rate, since the two data lines are not connected or wired to be compatible to charge apple (crap) products. Easiest way to make it charge at full current is to short/bridge the two data lines on the charger or cable (or use a 100ohm resistor for certain phones).

Since I don't own any apple products (crap) and don't care if some kills theirs with my charger, I went ahead and shorted the data lines on the actual charger it self (just solder the two terminals together. This will allow the phone to charge at full rate). Have done this to all my cigarette lighter chargers and works on all my devices.

Try this at your own risk, and post the results if anything catches fire.




if it doesn't work, buy an R6

[Asspire]

oh and get one of these:

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wi...PC-8/pc-8.html

makes adding electrical stuff easy

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by conrya5

If anyone is interested in a how to for accessory outlets or the location of the accessory fuse box, let me know. I have step by step installation pictures.

Quick question, are you able to plug in the 12V or USB plug and not have it be in the way of the forks?

I love the look and position as long as it doesn't interfere with steering around in a parking lot or while making a u-turn.

[conrya5]

Thanks for all of the input and technical info.

The position of the outlets is perfect. There is room for two side.by side, room behind for the wiring and I checked fork clearance before I drilled the holes. I haven't had any interference yet.

[conrya5]

Originally Posted by Asspire

oh and get one of these:

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wi...PC-8/pc-8.html

makes adding electrical stuff easy

That fuse box is nice. Thanks for the link. I might have to swap me set up for that box.

[leed]

Originally Posted by conrya5

The ground bar is not what I thought it is. I thought it was one common bar but after taking a closer look it appears to be separate terminals.

That is a typical terminal strip, if you want to make terminals equipotential you just need these:


I know this thread is pretty old, but I'm wondering if you've reached any resolve on the issue you were having? I was surprised to hear you were having issues since the product you listed has a max output of 5V at 2.1A. I've wired half a dozen car chargers directly into peoples bikes [e.g. take apart the typical 12V charger and solder wires in place of the contacts] with no problem. But I like the looks of this 10x more, but not if it won't charge my phone! [Galaxy Nexus]

I should add, though, I've gone and shorted both data pins on most of these chargers I've wired in -- this lets the phone [Androids] know it can pull more than typical USB outlet [say on a computer -- 500 mA] will allow. Also, I've ridden with my extended battery [3500 mAh] starting at 5 percent for 2 hours with my GPS and my screen on maybe 60% of the time and when I stopped I was at 80% battery life.

[NevadaWolf]

I think it's something with Samsung specific cords. When I ordered a different set of USB plugs and mentioned I'd be plugging in my Samsung, I could hear the record stop on the other end of the phone as the sales guy started asking what Samsung I had, how old it was, what it was (phone, tablet).

There's even a warning on the other site that Samsung tablets may not charge with their supplied cord.

[conrya5]

Everything works great. The USB outlet will not charge my Samsung phone, I haven't gotten around to the suggestion above about modifying my USB cable. The USB outlet charges iPhones without any issue.

[leed]

When you plug in the phone does it recognize that it's plugged into to something, or not at all?

I've used dozens of different cords [mostly Motorola, and Samsung cords for old non Android phones] with no issue. You may try to find a cord with the two data pins shorted also, if you don't want to short them on the charger itself.

Typically if I don't have the data pins shorted, it will acknowledge it's plugged in, but it won't charge if I'm using it at all as the phone easily draws over 500 mA to power the screen and idle system alone.

Also, I keep talking about shorting data pins; if you're curious all it is is a jumper between pins 2 and 3 [also known as D- and D+, respectively] for Type A USB plugs.

[Asspire]

tablets usually charge around 2ampd. cheap USB cords will heat up at the connector from the high current.

[conrya5]

No, the phone doesn't recognize that it is plugged in.

[leed]

I just read Asspire's posts and realized he had already talked about the data pin shorting, my mistake!

It is rather strange that the phone doesn't recognize anything at all, which bewilders me the most.

[Spingired]

Originally Posted by conrya5

My Samsung phone does not charge out a USB port in my car's stereo unit either. I'll look for a generic cable and try that out to see if it is the cable or the phone.

The Samsung USB cord will charge my phone when plugged into a computer.

If I really need to charge my phone on my bike I will use a cigarette to USB insert. Now I'm thinking of just installing 2 cigarette outlets, I can always switch the sockets out as needed.

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.

That's great. May be i can also go for it. It will be so easy to charge anything. I have some plug ins and i have to check them.

[conrya5]

Originally Posted by Spingired

That's great. May be i can also go for it. It will be so easy to charge anything. I have some plug ins and i have to check them.

I would definitely buy one of these kits instead. They look a lot cleaner and are more simple than what I did.

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wi...PC-8/pc-8.html