California Considering EPA-Style Exhaust Regulation

[kkim]

You guys in Khalifornia better not vote Arnie back into office.

...and so it starts.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by kkim

You guys in Khalifornia better not vote Arnie back into office.

...and so it starts.

Can't... 2nd term. Unfortunately what we have coming down the pipe is likely to be worse. Thankfully he can't run for Pres. though.

[TrueFader]

i have no problem with the law, i think it's mainly aimed at harleys and cheap slash cut exhaust mods. Laguna already has a strict stock only exhaust rule pretty much. Unfortunately i think the manufacturers have been retarding the stock exhausts expecting people to change or modify them.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by TrueFader

i think it's mainly aimed at harleys and cheap slash cut exhaust mods.

maybe so, but the law can be applied to anyone on two wheels.

btw, do you know where the EPA stamp for your muffler is located just in case you're stopped?

[TrueFader]

my bike isn't made after 2013 so it doesn't matter.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by kkim

maybe so, but the law can be applied to anyone on two wheels.

btw, do you know where the EPA stamp for your muffler is located just in case you're stopped?

There is already a Fed. EPA stamp on the side of my stock pipe (lists 80db), so I don't know what the point of this new law is anyways.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by TrueFader

my bike isn't made after 2013 so it doesn't matter.

never planning to buy another new bike in the future?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by headshrink

There is already a Fed. EPA stamp on the side of my stock pipe (lists 80db), so I don't know what the point of this new law is anyways.

my guess is that it gives local law enforcement a tool to interpret sound levels arbitrarily.

[TrueFader]

well it's also a secondary violation, meaning i would have to be caught doing something illegal already to prompt an inspection of my decibel level, cant just be pulled over for suspicion of having too loud of pipe, and i think the "sticker" is just so they dont have to issue decibel meters to all the patrol officers in california

[headshrink]

I think it is really about the increasing choke-hold of control.

[mrlmd]

From the current issue of Sport Rider magazine

[rockNroll]

It's been a no-no in the USA since 1970. I'd bet this is just a way to raise money. Make it a state law and collect fines.

[mrlmd]

I know, but it's coming back again. Stronger this time.

[CZroe]

Ha! My issue has been folded that exact way on that exact page for about a week, sitting in my tank bag for me to finish reading it when I get the chance.

[Ichiro]

Is there a similar restriction for cars and jacked-up trucks? There are a lot of after-market pipes on these as well and I doubt that they are EPA approved.

[wild-bill]

It's sad to see laws like this popping up. But we can blame those who put super loud pipes on their bikes. My 650R has an aftermarket slip on that's just a few Db's louder than stock-doesn't annoy folks when I ride by. I would never consider those earth shakin' exhaust systems on mine. But can't there be a compromise? Can the aftermarket manufacturers make a system that meets EPA requirements that boosts performance and is not too loud? About the loud pipes save lives thing, I feel that it's a bunch of bull. You only hear them when you're behind the bike. If you're in front or on the side, they're much quieter. I think that's a smokescreen they throw up to justify it. Proper riding gear, riding sober, and common sense save lives much more than loud pipes.

[addy126]

Can't help but think that the aftermarket companies will find a way to produce something that would be desired by those who look to change out their "stock" cans. It's the American way

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by addy126

Can't help but think that the aftermarket companies will find a way to produce something that would be desired by those who look to change out their "stock" cans. It's the American way

It already happens with car parts. What this bill will do is kill the small time business owner hoping to sell his own aftermarket system. It will pretty much be like CARB legal exhaust and intakes for cars. The big name brands will have the cash to spend on getting their systems certified while Joe Schmo will just have to sell to customers who don't live in one of these restricted states/cities.

Personally, I have nothing against this bill. I find many of the riders with excessively loud exhausts to be beyond annoying.

[SVBS]

this bill will mostly affect sport bike rider since we add them for performance, the cruiser crowds just take off their exhaust, they don't care about going faster, just sound faster....

[Sailariel]

I guess where I am having trouble with this whole issue is --and please enlighten me if I am off base--but don't the aftermarket systems eliminate the catalytic converters? What about tne O2 sensor? Looking at the Ninja, there are two catalytic converters involved. Seems like the emission requirement would be compromised. Around here most of the noise makers are Cruisers, Pickups, and Japaneese cars with spoilers bolted to their trunk lids, blackout windows, and an exhaust pipe that looks like it is about 12" in diameter. There is a guy here with a Screaming Eagle who sets off our car alarm if the car is in the driveway--doesn't do it if it is in the garage--encourages garaging.

[CThunder-blue]

That's true Alex, but the bill will also apply to slip-ons too. I haven't read it, but from the article it seems the true target is the noise pollution and not the green house gas pollution. So this would outlaw even the stock pipes with an aftermarket slip-on can.

[Sailariel]

I think that I will leave well enough alone. The bike I have now, sounds fine to me--so did the Ninja. My stance has always been that I would just as soon ride than futz with the bike. I figure the engineers who designed the bike knew what they were doing--my messing with it would just make the bike less reliable. The bike I have now has FI (my first FI bike) Took it out in 28F and it started right away and ran smoothly. I can see why 250R owners would want FI.

[CThunder-blue]

I'm with you on this Alex. After so many years of tinkering with cars, I just want something that runs when I turn the key, or push a button in this case.

[Apex]

I have the RS3 exhaust. It is pretty loud, but I keep the RPMs low in the neighborhood. I also have it because I can't hear a dang thing at speed. To me it is safety for me. Not just that others can hear me, but so I can hear how fast I am going. I need my eyes up and on the road. With the stock exhaust, I was constantly checking my speed, and my eyes were not on the road as much. So I need the exhaust to be loud to hear (what speed the engine is at) over the wind and tire noise created by all the SUV's, trucks, and 18-wheelers that I share the street with.

I'm not trying to tick people off, I'm wanting to hear how fast I am going so I can keep my eyes on the road and not on my speedo needle.

[Sailariel]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

I'm with you on this Alex. After so many years of tinkering with cars, I just want something that runs when I turn the key, or push a button in this case.

Cars are really difficult to tinker with these days because one practically needs a degree in engineering to do anything.
Back in the old days, I had a Lotus 7 with a Cortina engine. That was a fun car to tinker with. It was an absolute terror on the autocross circuit.

Looking at the Ninja manual, it has two catalytic converters--one in the muffler. I guess a slip on would just eliminate one.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Cars are really difficult to tinker with these days because one practically needs a degree in engineering to do anything.

LOL, it was good to get rid of the breaker points

[oroboros]

I have to say that I feel pretty strongly about loud-ass straight pipes on bikes (or anything for that matter). We just recently moved however, our old house was kinda in the country. We had mostly Amish neighbors. Our road was a fun twisty road through pretty countryside and am I sure that every redneck Harley d-bag within 50 miles would ride past our house on the weekends. We must have been on a map for local rides because these guys would come by all day long and tear up the valley with their noise. It was so bad that I would have voted for some sort of noise ordinance in the township. It made it hard to enjoy just being in yard on a nice day in the country. These super loud wet fart machines with their fake biker jackets, do-rags and the “This is uMerica and I got the right to take crap on your lawn with my stupid over chromed rattling fart bike” attitude.

I think that your freedoms cease to exist when you impose on my freedom to be on my own property and not be assaulted by your noise. This simple fact made it easier to make the decision to move.

BTW, if you ever want to go to a nice little artsy town in PA/NJ go to New Hope. It’s right on the Delaware River. Oh wait. Do not go to New Hope on a nice summer day on the weekend. Last time I was there it was overrun with loud ass bikes lining the streets. It was so loud that you could not have a conversation or even hear yourself think. Here is a town that thrives on outdoor cafes and restaurants and you would be crazy to sit outside.

I am sure that there are plenty of people who will think I am a POS. Why don’t you tell me where you live so I can come by your house at 2 AM with a drum kit and sit in your yard (I can’t play the drums so it will not be good). What, you don’t like that?

Bottom line is I think that most of the pushback is from the guys with no exhaust.
I know I am picking on Harleys a lot and this of course is a sweeping generalization. Most Harley riders are great people and they obviously have more money than me to spend on a bike… But damn, get a muffler! If I remember correctly one of Harley’s selling points years ago was the quiet exhaust. Rant much? Sorry…

[Apex]

I feel the same as you towards the loud Harley's and such. My neighbor has a bagger and straight pipes on it. When he starts it, you can hear it in the bedroom (back of the house). He lives across the street and down one house. So his is pretty loud. Mine is loud when I first start it, then I kill the RPM to about 2k. When I leave the house I keep the RPM's as low as possible so I don't disturb anyone. I had a friend ride on it and my bike really isn't all that loud. Once you get about 20ft away, it is very quiet compared to my neighbor's Harley. I also feel the need to rant about the sportbikes sporting that loud GP exhaust system. Those things are VERY loud. I got blown by on my motorcycle by a gixxer 1000 with a GP kit. I couldn't hear my exhaust over his.

I think they need to crack down on dB's, but not harshly. Keep it at (for instance) 95dB or less, anything over is not allowed....or something like that. No need to only have CARB approved, stock exhaust quiet, or any crap like that. Let the people mod their toys, but within reason.

[CThunder-blue]

That crazy senator tried to have the bikes smog every 2 years just like cars. Politicians should be given psych evals before they're eligible for elections. That would definitely thin out the herd.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

That crazy senator tried to have the bikes smog every 2 years just like cars.

Not really a big deal, unless you ripped all the smog crap off your bike

[Apex]

True, but I guess many view the amount of fuel a bike burns compared to a car too. Since bikes typically burn much less than a car, therefore they are less of an environmental issue.


...I had a big rant typed about my dislike of big vehicles, but I'll just leave it at that. No point hijacking a thread.

Honestly, EPA should do more to discourage big vehicle usage unless required for commercial use. Encouraging, maybe even giving incentives, the picking of smaller and more fuel efficient vehicles...motorcycles included. That would do more good than just smog testing bikes left and right. Just think of how many motorcycles are out there compared to cars. Makes more sense to chase the majority...

[wvninja]

I'm all for it .. i cringe everytime i hear the BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Buh buh BLAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! buh buh BLAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! .. wish they would do this clear across the US.

I make it a point to not wave at these people when I ride past them.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Not really a big deal, unless you ripped all the smog crap off your bike

Not sure about your state, but here in CA where smogging is already really strict, it's quite expensive to get smogged. The state gets a cut of the smog fees too. It's also a hassle because it's not just a sniffer test, but a visual, AND functioning test. IE, timing has to be in spec, etc. So, even if you have all your smog equipment in place, that doesn't guarantee you'll pass. If you rejet your carbs for instance, making your bike run richer, it may fail to pass. Same thing with installing an aftermarket exhaust which removes the catalytic converters. Mods that motorcyclists take for granted now would suddenly become illegal.

Mark, CA has a gas guzzler tax on large SUV's, so they do try in some small way to discourage large vehicle use, but it's usually not an advertised fee. The EPA actually doesn't do that much in terms of air pollution from cars. It's mostly handled by the state's commission.

[Sailariel]

Tri, If we motorcyclists don't police ourselves on this issue, the politicians will invariably step up to the plate and ram their solution (which will invariably be based on no experience with motorcycles) I remember back in the 70s (And this is a true story) when there was a gasoline shortage and everybody was being charged usage fees, there was a congressman (a power boater) who felt that sailboaters were not paying their share of the gasoline tax. He ACTUALLY proposed a tax on Dacron (the material used in sailmaking) This clown was from Oxford, MD. He was laughed off the congress floor. Let's hope that we motorcyclists do not get stuck with legislation passed by another one of these brilliant intellects.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

Not sure about your state, but here in CA where smogging is already really strict, it's quite expensive to get smogged. The state gets a cut of the smog fees too. It's also a hassle because it's not just a sniffer test, but a visual, AND functioning test. IE, timing has to be in spec, etc. So, even if you have all your smog equipment in place, that doesn't guarantee you'll pass. If you rejet your carbs for instance, making your bike run richer, it may fail to pass. Same thing with installing an aftermarket exhaust which removes the catalytic converters. Mods that motorcyclists take for granted now would suddenly become illegal.

Been there done that, lived out in Cali for 34 years. Wasnt really a big deal on getting a cert for my vehicle. Would just run another car twice, second time with my info After not being a mechanic, was a bitch twice a year putting all the crap on for it to pass. Nice cam shaft really made it a little tough
No biggy thou...... just play the game

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Tri, If we motorcyclists don't police ourselves on this issue, the politicians will invariably step up to the plate and ram their solution (which will invariably be based on no experience with motorcycles) I remember back in the 70s (And this is a true story) when there was a gasoline shortage and everybody was being charged usage fees, there was a congressman (a power boater) who felt that sailboaters were not paying their share of the gasoline tax. He ACTUALLY proposed a tax on Dacron (the material used in sailmaking) This clown was from Oxford, MD. He was laughed off the congress floor. Let's hope that we motorcyclists do not get stuck with legislation passed by another one of these brilliant intellects.

I agree, but it's not going to happen. Too many people out there who believe in "don't tread on me." Until it goes into law, people will try to get away with whatever they can. Having someone not in a position of authority telling others that what they're doing is causing a problem doesn't mean squat.

[drowe531]

Coming from someone that lives in a state that has had this for a while now, it hasn't really stopped many people around here for putting on aftermarket exhausts. I still have the stock exhaust but I know numerous people that have aftermarkets. As the article says they are supposed to only check it if they stop you for something else, but that isn't true. One time this summer they had a checkpoint stopping only motorcycles to make sure their exhaust was stock. That saw some nice heated results from motorcyclists here. I've had friends pulled over and ticketed for speeding or something of that nature and the cop didn't bother checking out the exhaust. While it seems annoying its something that right now still isn't forced heavily.

[00NissanNinja]

When I was young I never liked harleys because they were almost always excessively loud (and not exciting looking) bikes, while almost everything else I saw was relatively quiet. I however don't really care to much about noise as long as it isn't excessive. I'm surprised some people aren't deaf from the loud straight pipe bikes they ride with no helmet or earplugs. I agree with apex let people have there fun within reason.

[NinjaBoyEddy]

So I heard that next year they might start smog cheking motorcycles. My motor mechanic teacher told the whole class this. He's also real old school guyand knows that they been talk bout this for years, and they are getting close to doing it, maybe next use. Lol then said we are all ****ed with out after market ehausts do modding out emissons control. Also that along with this they plan on enforcing the noise controlbecause our bikes are beautifully loud:-) . All this will lead to big fat fines$ aw this broke country of ours..

What do you guys think and know about this "law"?

[Alex]

There's no law that leads to smog checks for motorcycles. The direction that things are moving, it's not unexpected that it might happen at some point. But right now there is no law.

The law that did pass was called SB435. It states that any motorcycle produced as of Jan 1, 2013, to have an exhaust system with a stamp saying it passed noise emission standards. Basically, the EPA stamp that is on all OEM bikes. So if you have a 2013 or later bike, and you put an aftermarket exhaust that is not certified, you can get a ticket. First offense is supposed to be $100, second $250, and it goes up from there.