May 25th, 2009, 07:37 AM | #1 | |
Über n00b
Name: Bob
Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Triumph TT600, Honda NS50F, Kawasaki ZZR-250 (sold) Posts: 225
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A must read in my opinion
Reading CC Cowboys (and a couple other ones) posts in a crash thread made me think of this great post from a local forum I frequent.
Guy who wrote it is an extremely nice and helpful person. I think this is some great advice here, from the topic "It wasn't my fault (rant warning)" on Ground Pilots. Quote:
Last futzed with by Mista Bob; May 25th, 2009 at 01:06 PM. |
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May 25th, 2009, 09:35 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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nah... it couldn't be my fault.
good post. thanks! |
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May 25th, 2009, 12:58 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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That's CC Cowboy. If you going to use my name you have to get it right. I'm very case sensitive.
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If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough! |
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May 25th, 2009, 01:06 PM | #4 |
Über n00b
Name: Bob
Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Triumph TT600, Honda NS50F, Kawasaki ZZR-250 (sold) Posts: 225
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Fixed.
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May 25th, 2009, 01:18 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jason
Location: Federal Way / Spokane
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Looking For 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 84
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...but officer she popped out of nowhere while I was stunting through the neighborhood! It wasn't my fault...hahaha nice find Mista Bob. Own up yall
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May 25th, 2009, 03:08 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Aaron
Location: Wildomar
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2009 KTM 690 SMC, 2001 Suzuki GSX-R 750 (track bike) Posts: 172
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Good find, and well put.
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May 25th, 2009, 05:11 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Becca
Location: Clearwater, FL
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250, 02 CBR600 f4i Posts: 253
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Again: experience, care and attention all help. Nobody should *ever* feel like they are completely safe from unexpected incidents however. Many motorcycle accidents are the fault of the motorcyslist. Many other motorcycle accidents are *not* the fault of the motorcyclist. All you can do is be the best rider you can be, get your experience, use your common sense, and accept the risk that comes with riding. Or driving. Or running trail marathons. Or walking into a post office...etc etc.
I'm not saying that i don't see the point of that article; a lot of people would rather blame their tools than themselves. However, I don't like the path we go down when we say that you and you alone are in control of your circumstances. Look at the driving distracted thread just a few below this one. Is that the fault of those motorcyclists? |
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May 25th, 2009, 06:14 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
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Becca, I agree with you to a point. The distracted driver issue is a new thing since cell phones, GPS Navigators, CD players, computers, and all that stuff. You still need to be aware. I ride a full blown 30 speed racing bicycle 15 to 20+ miles a day five days a week. I do not have the agile handling, acceleration, and stopping power of a modern sportbike like the ninjette. On one of my rides, I looked in my mirror and saw wall to wall grille in the mirror. I was in the Bike/Repair lane. I immediately bailed out, leaving the repair lane and laying the boke down in the grass and brush. As I executed this manouver, I saw a young lady behind the wheel of a minivan, steering with her knees and furiously texting on her cell phone. Had I not seen her in my mirrors, I would have been killed. The point is that I did see her. The other point is that I took the necessary effort to find a set of mirrors suitable for a racing bike. This initiative saved my life. Now we take it to the Ninjette. We all know that the OEM mirrors on the ninjette are worthless--Unless YOU do something about it. You can spend $1.99 at Wal Mart and get some adjustable Blind Spot mirrors that fit on your existing mirrors with double sided tape. You could also scrap the stock mirrors and spend $60.00 on a pair of mirrors made for the Kawasaki Z6R (the option I chose in addition to the WM mirrors. I can now see behind me--so I have no excuse for having someone "sneak up" on me. True, we pay more insurance because we choose to ride a sport bike. I have been driving sports cars for 50 years accident free. I have been riding motorcycles just as long, also accident free. What insurance companies consider dangerous--I consider safer. This applies to sports cars as well. We can accelerate faster. We can manouver better. We can stop faster in less distance. If we stay alert and optimize these great assets a sport bike has--we are certainly safer from a technical standpoint than a cruiser. Our problem is that we get a bit overconfident because our bikes are technologically advanced. If we don`t let it go to our heads, we`ll be fine. Ride Safe.
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May 25th, 2009, 06:23 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Becca
Location: Clearwater, FL
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250, 02 CBR600 f4i Posts: 253
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Nothing I said implied anything contrary to what you wrote, Sail In fact, that's exactly my point: that you do everything you can, to the best you can.
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May 25th, 2009, 07:49 PM | #10 |
Live Life
Name: Don
Location: Lincoln, NE
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Green SE Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Good Article Bob - thanks for sharing.
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May 25th, 2009, 08:17 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Wayne
Location: Brookfield, MA
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Honda CBR250R Posts: 585
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I think the reasoning in the OP is a little half-baked. Apparently by this reasoning, if a 747 falls out of the sky on top of you it's your fault because you should have expected it. You alone apparently have control over all things, including Acts of God like avalanches or trees falling in the road because you should be skilled enough to avoid anything. Then we're told that motorcycling is a dangerous activity. Well, which is it??!!
Motorcycling IS a dangerous activity. Why? Because people crash all the time doing it, that's why. How many times have you been told "Don't go faster than you'd like to crash" or "It's not if you crash, it's when."? Everyone, even most non-riders, know at least one person who has been hurt or killed on a motorcycle. I know at least a half dozen and I don't know that many people who ride. If motorcycling wasn't dangerous you wouldn't need to wear a helmet or CE-approved armor every time you got on one. It would be one thing if only noobs and inexperienced riders crashed, but a lot of very experienced riders crash too. I don't buy that "every crash is the rider's fault 100%" reasoning at all. Critical events like crashing are not usually caused by one thing alone that you can point to and say with 100% surety "that's why it happened." They are caused by several things going wrong in unison resulting in a crash. No matter how "in the zone" you are or how much skill and experience you have you still have to get every single thing right from beginning to end when confronted with a situation that can result in crashing. Some people get lucky and avoid a crash when they probably shouldn't and some people crash no matter what they do right to avoid it. Motorcycling is a dangerous activity. You either accept the risks or you don't. But don't try telling me that great skill and experience always win out against every unknown and unexpected hazard you may come across in the roadway, because nobody can expect every situation and be prepared to react perfectly every time. People are human, not robots. Elite skydivers with thousands of jumps die every year. People at the pinnicle of their sport with more training, skill and experience in their pastime than any mororcyclist will ever have. Why? Because it's a dangerous sport and accidents happen...just like they do in that other dangerous sport...motorcycling. |
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May 26th, 2009, 05:25 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Whodat
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Are you talking from experience?
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If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough! |
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May 26th, 2009, 06:56 AM | #13 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Wayne
Location: Brookfield, MA
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Honda CBR250R Posts: 585
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A friend of mine and I went up to Orange Parachute Center (now called Jumptown) many years ago for a couple of "hop & pops". As we were chuting up on the ready line a collective gasp went up and everyone looked skyward. A group of 10 jumpers had just completed a snowflake and had tracked off to open. One guy opened and got a streamer. As he got closer to the ground we could see him pulling his shroud lines trying to clear the malfunction, but not paying attention to his remaining time and altitude. He finally cut away his malfunctioning main canopy and pulled his reserve chute, but we all knew it was too late. It was still coming around his body trying to inflate when he impacted the ground 50' in front of us at close to 100mph. He died instantly.
Later that day we found out he was a very experienced jumper with over 2000 jumps and was the most experienced jumper on the flight. He had even logged time as a Jumpmaster at the center, training other skydivers. In the years since there have been many rediculously experienced jumpers who have died, notably Carl Boenish who died base jumping and was the best skydiving cinematographer in the world at the time. Even the most experienced jumper in the world, the Frenchman responsible for inventing sky surfing, died a few years later from a malfunction. These guys were absolute aces in their sport, yet when the time came all the experience and training they had didn't help them. The attitude that all crashes can be avoided if you're skillful enough used to bother me before I crashed last year. Now that I have crashed it bothers me even more. Most of the time this attitude is held by experienced riders who have never crashed. The longer they go without crashing the more they think they are skilled enough to handle any situation and the more surprised they are when it finally happens to them. Motorcycling is an inherently dangerous pastime. Just read the warning labels on your gear. There are too many variables you are confronted with when you ride to make sweeping statements like "experience and skill will let you avoid any crash." The world just isn't like that. Life throws unexpected obstacles at you all the time and some of those are going to get you no matter how much skill and experience you have. How many people drive automobiles all their life without a single accident? Is every one of those accidents caused by lack of skill in driving? Of course not. So why do some motorcyclists, who are faced with the same causes of car accidents, think accidents on bikes should never happen if you have enough skill and experience? Thinking that training and experience will trump anything that gets thrown at you in this life is just dumb thinking in the face of reality and it seems more common among motorcyclists than any other sport I've been involved with. |
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May 26th, 2009, 06:58 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
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Wayne, You make a good point---accidents will happen no matter what your experience level is. I don`t buy the notion that motorcycling is an inherently dangerous sport. It is no more dangerous than riding a bicycle on the road, driving a cage, skydiving, or SCUBA diving. All these activities require a high degree of vigilance and split second decision making. Before I execute any move, I remind myself of the acronym TOTC (Think Of The Consequences), and what was drilled into my head in Ranger School, "Always expect the unexpected." When one is constantly told that a behaviour is dangerous, it almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I am definitely not advocating that we should ignore the fact that in a crash we would in all probability be hurt, and therefore sally forth with reckless abandon. Sure, we all know an unfortunate chap who crashed on his/her motorcycle, but we also know many people who crash in cages. There is no way that we can cover all contingencies--accidents happen. I often think of my friend, Robbie, who did four tours in Vietnam as a Ranger. He went home on leave, stepped off the curb, and was run over by a bus and killed instantly. --sort of makes you wonder.
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May 26th, 2009, 09:37 AM | #15 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Z
Location: Long Island, NY
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: 356
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Quote:
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