How do your rearsets and frame hold up to crashing?

[cuong-nutz]

Played in the rain on the track and lost the rear. Mangled my rearsets and twisted the frame where it mounts. Could have been avoided wrecking if I wasn't pushing it so much or just not rode at all

Anyways, I was wondering what brands others are using and how well they hold up to crashing along with the frame. I am considering beefing up the frame or just finding better rearsets that hold up better. Is it better to rearsets that bend vs stiffer rearsets that resist better to bending? I was thinking my cheapy X-race faired decent since it just kind of folded on it's self vs ripping off from the frame when hit caught the curbing.

Here's my X-Race cruiser rearset after a slow lowside:

[zvonler]

Our endurance race bike went down once on each side in the last MSR round, both times in/near T3, the slowest turn on the track. We're using Woodcraft rearsets. On the right side, the footpeg bent its mounting bolt, and the heel guard bent a bit (1/2" off) but was straighten-able in the vise. On the left side, the heel guard bent similarly, but it also tweaked the mounting holes in the frame. I was able to straighten the mounting holes by putting a wrench over the installed heel guard and pulling very carefully, and then able to straighten the heel guard in the vise. All in all, I think our Woodcrafts held up better than your rearsets, but making the rearsets/heel guard stronger probably means more force gets transmitted to the frame.

[lgk]

my woodcrafts held up well in my low speed gravel wreck.
the thickness of the mounting plate is just about perfect.

[csmith12]

80+mph front tuck and woodcraft held up flawlessly, just ground about 1/4 inch off the peg.

[Nemesis]

The rearsets aren't the issue...it's the frame where the rearsets mount to that's soft/weak/etc.

However, being that they're that soft allows us to bend them back in place with a pry bar. Woot!

[rc-rick]

I have the SVracingparts rear sets. I had a low sideon the right in the rain while racing which ripped everything off except the riser plate and of course the frame bent. The weak point on those rear sets are a single bolt which holds the assembly to the riser plate. Meh, I kinda knew the frame was a weak point and will be reenforcing it this winter.

Now, here is my complaint about the customer service of SVracingparts. After the crash, I emailed them about replacement rear sets initially wanting a full set plus replacement parts for the right side. Then I thought it would be a little cheaper if I bought just the parts except the riser plates. Someone from there called me to make sure of what I wanted, which was everything except the riser plate. I paid 285 for the replacement parts which I thought was EVERYTHING except the riser plate. I went to assemble the rearset but noticed I was missing an insert for the bolt/pedal/foot peg which is needed. I sent another email explaining I didn't get the inserts. I was told those are "rarely" damaged and were not included in my order. They would cost me an extra $45 plus $6.95 in shipping for the three inserts.

I tried explaining I wanted EVERYTHING but the riser plate in following emails and felt like I should not have to pay an additional price. In the end, I was sent ONE insert. Also, I as not sent the shift linkage arm with what I ordered. Once again, I wanted EVERYTHING except the riser plates and did not get what I wanted. In the end, I could have ordered a full set plus a right side for the same price. I don't mind paying a little more to help out someone who is trying to help out us , the riders. But, when I don't get everything I have asked for then get told I would have to pay more to get what I explained I wanted, I won't do business with that company anymore.

For those thinking about SVracingparts rear sets, don't buy them. Pay a little more to buy Woodcraft instead, better build quality and customer service.

[htdub]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

The rearsets aren't the issue...it's the frame where the rearsets mount to that's soft/weak/etc.

However, being that they're that soft allows us to bend them back in place with a pry bar. Woot!

I've seen alot of 250's crash, almost all have required some pry bar work to get the frame mount back. Woodcrafts, svracing rearsets have all been tweaked, fixed and back running. Low speed, high speed etc.

Extra parts to repair rearsets and clipons are mandatory for trackday/race.

I've gone to really short pegs along with others at the track and noticed it helps alot, less leverage on the rearsets when it does go down.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by htdub

I've seen alot of 250's crash, almost all have required some pry bar work to get the frame mount back. Woodcrafts, svracing rearsets have all been tweaked, fixed and back running. Low speed, high speed etc.

Extra parts to repair rearsets and clipons are mandatory for trackday/race.

I've gone to really short pegs along with others at the track and noticed it helps alot, less leverage on the rearsets when it does go down.

Yup which is why I highly recommend the Sato knockoffs on Ebay. Best bang for the buck IMHO.

[dino74]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Yup which is why I highly recommend the Sato knockoffs on Ebay. Best bang for the buck IMHO.

I like getting the ones with the fold up pegs.

[Trailerboy531]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Yup which is why I highly recommend the Sato knockoffs on Ebay. Best bang for the buck IMHO.

Are these bohemian ones or just lame ol' chinese ones? Link?

[Nemesis]

The bohemian ones are the same ones sold by Thailand on Ebay which are knockoffs of Sato rearsets...which really aren't knockoffs since all Sato does is use the same exact ones and stamp it with their name.

[Foxrider64]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

Are these bohemian ones or just lame ol' chinese ones? Link?

Agreed. There are several that resemble the satos. Which one are you talking about?

I need to upgrade from my stock pegs- they are awful in the rain too by the way

[bitaria]

Interested as well.

Did a quick search and see lots of these variations
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-Nin...5463c9&vxp=mtr


Spoke with a mechanic who has tons of experience with 250 race bikes. His recommendation was to reinforce the frame around the mounting points. Downside is that more energy can be transferred up and cause the frame to get out of shape elsewhere.

[SPG]

If you unbolt the rearset from the frame, you will see that the portion of the frame where the bolts go is recessed. I took a piece of 1/8 x 1 inch cold rolled steel, and cut it to fit into these recesses and then drilled holes for the mounting bolts to go. Once I cleaned everything up, I bolted the plates in place and welded the perimeter. This made a bead on the outboard side of the top, front, and bottom side of the insert, and then on the inboard side of the back of the insert.

This insert stiffens up the mounting point and keeps the threaded inserts from ripping out like little volcanos. It also moves the load bearing pivot further back from the bolts which reduces the leverage that the rearset has on the threaded portion of the frame.

All in all, an easy project and it has held up very well in crashes. I spent a long time trying to figure how I wanted to reinforce this area, and this ended up being the cleanest/fastest/easiest way I could come up with.

-Sean

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by SPG

If you unbolt the rearset from the frame, you will see that the portion of the frame where the bolts go is recessed. I took a piece of 1/8 x 1 inch cold rolled steel, and cut it to fit into these recesses and then drilled holes for the mounting bolts to go. Once I cleaned everything up, I bolted the plates in place and welded the perimeter. This made a bead on the outboard side of the top, front, and bottom side of the insert, and then on the inboard side of the back of the insert.

This insert stiffens up the mounting point and keeps the threaded inserts from ripping out like little volcanos. It also moves the load bearing pivot further back from the bolts which reduces the leverage that the rearset has on the threaded portion of the frame.

All in all, an easy project and it has held up very well in crashes. I spent a long time trying to figure how I wanted to reinforce this area, and this ended up being the cleanest/fastest/easiest way I could come up with.

-Sean

The only negative thing I can see with this is that the rearsets are farther away from the bike's centerline. Might just have to cut off some more foot peg. lol.

[htdub]

That seems like a good idea, any chance you can post up photos of your setup Sean?

cheers

[bitaria]

A few pictures of this would be awesome!

Originally Posted by SPG

If you unbolt the rearset from the frame, you will see that the portion of the frame where the bolts go is recessed. I took a piece of 1/8 x 1 inch cold rolled steel, and cut it to fit into these recesses and then drilled holes for the mounting bolts to go. Once I cleaned everything up, I bolted the plates in place and welded the perimeter. This made a bead on the outboard side of the top, front, and bottom side of the insert, and then on the inboard side of the back of the insert.

This insert stiffens up the mounting point and keeps the threaded inserts from ripping out like little volcanos. It also moves the load bearing pivot further back from the bolts which reduces the leverage that the rearset has on the threaded portion of the frame.

All in all, an easy project and it has held up very well in crashes. I spent a long time trying to figure how I wanted to reinforce this area, and this ended up being the cleanest/fastest/easiest way I could come up with.

-Sean

[htdub]

Would folding pegs help vs the solid pegs?

[mwirrick]

I just low sided my 250 at the track last weekend, on the right side. I have Woodcraft pegs, the slightly older style, and it was ground down significantly, but no damage occurred to the bracket. The sliders are Shogun and worked outstandingly. The bolt was bent, and the slider ground down a bunch, but not a spec of damage to the bodywork, frame, clipons, etc. All I have to replace is the peg and slider. And Woodcraft now has pegs that are designed to snap off at the half way point, leaving enough peg to soldier on with, if need be or so inclined. I think I got pretty lucky on this one.

[abhijitz]

Would you have a picture of this?

Originally Posted by SPG

If you unbolt the rearset from the frame, you will see that the portion of the frame where the bolts go is recessed. I took a piece of 1/8 x 1 inch cold rolled steel, and cut it to fit into these recesses and then drilled holes for the mounting bolts to go. Once I cleaned everything up, I bolted the plates in place and welded the perimeter. This made a bead on the outboard side of the top, front, and bottom side of the insert, and then on the inboard side of the back of the insert.

This insert stiffens up the mounting point and keeps the threaded inserts from ripping out like little volcanos. It also moves the load bearing pivot further back from the bolts which reduces the leverage that the rearset has on the threaded portion of the frame.

All in all, an easy project and it has held up very well in crashes. I spent a long time trying to figure how I wanted to reinforce this area, and this ended up being the cleanest/fastest/easiest way I could come up with.

-Sean

[simook]

+1 for pictures

[thumper64]

I'm trying not to make new/unnecessary threads, so this seems an appropriate place to ask this.

In the event your frame is bent or cracked in a wreck, and you aren't forced to total it, can you simply replace the frame? I have seen frames for bigger bikes without a VIN stamped on them, so i assume that must be what they're for... To keep a bike ridable, it would be safer to replace a bad frame with a known safe one instead of trusting mine or someone else's welding I wouldn't trust my life to.

Follow up question: Would the frame on a pregen have to be replaced with another pregen frame? What about a newgen frame since it's stiffer?

[alex.s]

legally? no. the frame is the vehicle. everything else attaches to the vehicle. new frame, new vehicle.

every frame has a vin. if it doesn't have a vin, the vin was illegally removed, or the frame is not certified to be street legal and the creator didn't have a manufacturers id which means they didn't have any vins to put on the frame. "one-off" custom frame.

[bitaria]

Originally Posted by alex.s

legally? no. the frame is the vehicle. everything else attaches to the vehicle. new frame, new vehicle.

every frame has a vin. if it doesn't have a vin, the vin was illegally removed, or the frame is not certified to be street legal and the creator didn't have a manufacturers id which means they didn't have any vins to put on the frame. "one-off" custom frame.

This is not the case, frames do exist without VINs, and can be had from the dealer. Often race bikes will get frames like that (mind you the frame is the same as a regular one, nothing special), just ordered with no VIN.
Used to be able to get a new blank frame, bring in the headstock from a crashed bike (VIN is on the head) and have VIN legally stamped onto the blank frame.

That said, if you messed up the frame I would get one from eBay and swap over all the other components. Yes, numbers on the engine and the frame will not match, but how much do you care about that?

[alex.s]

go try to register the bike. what do they ask for? the vin number. doesn't have a vin number? its not built by a licensed manufacturer for legal use on the street. if the frame is meant for DOT use, it has a vin number. these laws exist to try to curb chop shops.

modifying a vin plate is illegal. moving a vin plate from one frame to another is illegal since you are modifying the vin plate.

yes some frames are built with no intention of ever touching the street. so theres no point putting a vin on them.

[bitaria]

Originally Posted by alex.s

go try to register the bike. what do they ask for? the vin number. doesn't have a vin number? its not built by a licensed manufacturer for legal use on the street. if the frame is meant for DOT use, it has a vin number. these laws exist to try to curb chop shops.

modifying a vin plate is illegal. moving a vin plate from one frame to another is illegal since you are modifying the vin plate.

yes some frames are built with no intention of ever touching the street. so theres no point putting a vin on them.

You cannot stamp a number on the frame, but the dealer or state patrol can.

[dino74]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the frame is the vehicle. everything else attaches to the vehicle. new frame, new vehicle.

not quite true, the engine is also special.

From http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/reg_hdbk/ch22/ch22_13.htm

Engine changes and engine case changes must be reported to the department within 10 days.

[cuong-nutz]

Here's what a buddy did with buckled and ripped out frame:

[bitaria]

That weld looks a bit sketch...

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Here's what a buddy did with buckled and ripped out frame:

[alex.s]

it aint pretty but it looks plenty strong. probably more steel there than before...