Buying a bike behind my moms back.....

[lavid2002]

Without going overboard here is a little backround information. My name is dave, and i have grown up around motorcycles. My father rode when he was young, and sold his bike. When I wa about ten he took me and my brother to a ORV off road vehicle course where i rode a dirtbike for the first time. I was hooked. I immediately started saving for a bike, but a few months before I could buy one my mom moved to nj and my dad stayed in MI. My mom worked in the E.R. (I know her opinion on motorcycles is WAY biased) and she is against motorcycles. The subject got set aside. "When your 18 you can do what you want untill then you are my kid' So here we are years down the road and now i'm 18. i brought up the motorcycle again. I took a MSF course and went to the DMV to get my license. I told my mom i wanted a motorcycle and she said no. She explained why and my rebuttle was how I am purchasing a small bike *250, I will install a HL modulator, i dont speed, I have taken safety courses and i will continue to take them, i will ATGATT, etc....I mean i spent a LOT of time on this. 7 months this conversation went on. Meeting with my therapist, with me and her in the room. His ultimate conclusion was not my safety, because i have done nearly every safety precaution you could posibly imagine. The problem was my mom, and her instablility and feelings about me being on a motorcycle. We agreed she had a lot of undue stress on her and promised to talk about it in the spring of 2010. I recently found out from a conversation she had with an uncle that she had no intentions of bringing it back up in the spring, where I planned to buy a bike in the spring. I confronted her about the situation and she simply said while your living in my house you wont have a motorcycle. This is big to me....Promising someone one thing, and having them find out it was all just plan to make me stfu for a few more months until the spring is something else. I have a plan though. Everyone...and EVERYONE has said the problem is her and her insecurities. Regardless I WILL get a motorcycle when I move out and she WILL know about it...same undue stress. I found a plan that works for both of us

I have a fair chunk of change set aside for a ninja, I can buy it, and pay money to store it. When I feel like riding, i will saya im hanging out with a friend (Not really a lie he is buying a ninja too and were going to ride) and I will drive to the storage facility where I keep my bike (18 bucks a month) and ill pop it out, drive it, when im done ill park it and drive home. If I HAD to store it there for 3 years until I am out of college it would cost me 650$ However i will only be keeping it there for the spring summer, and some of the fall. My friends mom says I can winterise it and keep it in her backyard. Where his bike will be.

Conclusion:
I get my bike, and I get to ride like I have for over 8 years.....
Mom knows nothing and she doesnt have to worry about anything......

I know...What happens if I get into an accident? I will have insurance, and i am confident that i am taking so many safety precautions and workiing so hard to be a defencive safe driver that the chances of me getting into an accident are minimal(IMO). I have done a lot of research on this subject.

Has anyone else done something similar? How can someone be HAPPY someone else is risking their life? It never happens....Im sure many of you have GF's Wives' MOMs or equivalent that dont want you on a bike....but you got one anyways....Any stories?
How do you guys feel about this?

[karlosdajackal]

If your Mom is that insecure about you getting a bike if she ever finds out (and mums always do) then she's not likely to be secure about anything else you promised her, so I think it would do more harm than good for your relationship. Of course she also lied, maybe you both do that from time to time, but you both need to grow up and realize that's probably why you can't have a proper discussion about it(who cares what a liar says).

I think you should find a solution that does not involve lies. Maybe move out (she'll probably be insecure about that also, but your 18), tell her your getting the bike eventually, but get your safety gear first spread it out, start with the helmet, gloves, etc. Make sure she knows about this so she sees you are being responsible. She might not believe what you tell her so if she can experience it all the better and she also has some time to get used to the idea of you on a bike.

Maybe tell her you actually appreciate the fact she is looking out for you, some kids are not so lucky, but this is something you intend to do eventually, but at least your going to do it in the safest way possible.

Maybe the fact your keen to hide from you Mom and say "its not really a lie" is exactly why she does not trust you when you say your doing it the right way. So if your not prepared to move out now, maybe you should work on creating some trust first. Even if that takes a couple of years, funny that it might take a year to sort out your trust issues but it would only take 6 years of lies for you to get the bike now

Almost nobodies Mom is going to encourage them to get on a motorbike, best you can aim for is reluctant acceptance in most cases.

Based on what you wrote and nothing else, i'd say you shes right to try hold you up, but shes just not going about it in the right way, and your not ready to be open and honest with her, so shes not likely going to trust whatever you "say" about safety.

Even if I'm totally wrong, I'd suggest you suck it up and live without a bike till you move out, 6 years of lies is pretty hard to undo.

[lavid2002]

Where do you keep getting the number 6 from?

6 years of lies is hard to undo

but you both need to grow up and realize that's probably why you can't have a proper discussion about it

We have had a lot of proper discussions about it with family members, with therapists, by ourselves. But the end result is always the same. I talk to my mom about everything. Literally everything, but this is something she wont give on so im going to do it by myself.

Edit:

Shes not going to trust what you say about safety

Why would she have any reason to doubt me up to now? I haven't bought a bike or done anything to give her question. I drive safely.

[ScraitT]

There are so many issues in this story, it's hard to come up with a clear answer...

I was in a similar situation. I got the bike and my mom flipped (SHE almost moved out). So I did the smart thing, because family comes first, and put the bike up for sale.
While it was up for sale, of course multiple people talked to me about it...people she worked with, family, friends, etc. They all realized and relayed to her that I was doing it the smartest way possible by buying a small bike, taking the MSF, getting gear, etc....and that it was something I had only planned to ride on occasion.

Like you, I have been riding offroad forever...since I was 7. My mom completely trusts me on a bike and knows that I am fine on one. Her main concern (which is very valid) is OTHER drivers. You can only be a defensive driver to a certain extent.

Anyways, I ended up talking it over with her and keeping the bike. And I try to keep her happy by riding it very little, it's just for me to relax on weekends.

People that don't ride just don't understand what it's like the and enjoyment that it gives. You'll never get your mom to understand that, it just won't happen.

However, I firmly believe that family comes first and that you're doing the wrong thing by trying to go behind your moms back. She WILL find out eventually somehow, and it's gonna really hurt her. You'll be putting her through a lot of unneeded stress.
I personally believe that if your under her roof, you follow her rules...and if that means no bike, so be it. I live on my own and I still take my moms opinion into consideration.

I think you should wait. Your 18, hard headed, and think things should go your way, but in this case, they shouldn't, it's asking for trouble. Wait at least till your older and can afford your own place. In the mean time continue to ride offroad for fun.

[rockNroll]

This is your Mom's decision... while living under her roof, no motorcycle! Be a man and deal with it.

[lavid2002]

Her main concern (which is very valid) is OTHER drivers. You can only be a defensive driver to a certain extent.

same here, I dont really see how that changes when I move out....Kinda feels like all the hard work in terms of safety and classes, and research just got thrown in the ------ trash. All that work for a no....if you want one when your older get one in your own house.

Edit:

In the mean time continue to ride offroad for fun.

She wont let me ride period...on road, off road, nothing

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by lavid2002

Where do you keep getting the number 6 from?

We have had a lot of proper discussions about it with family members, with therapists, by ourselves. But the end result is always the same. I talk to my mom about everything. Literally everything, but this is something she wont give on so im going to do it by myself.

3 for college and 3 for getting moved out, I'm assuming you won't move out the day you finish college, it might take some time that's all

Ok if you have to do it, but don't do it behind her back, if it takes you moving out now to get it, do that first. If you have to wait a year till your ready to move out do that. I know plenty of people who planned 3 years of college and after 3 months had dropped out. In my first year on my course we started with 122 students, by the exams at the end of the year we still had 67 of them. By the start of the 2nd year we had only 48! I'm sure the rest had to change there plans for the next 2 years pretty quick.

My own experience was that it was that my parents where pretty discouraging about me getting a bike and I was 26 when I first mentioned it! Death in the family years ago, motorbike accident. Also my mom has never ridden even a push bike so she does not understand how these things can not fall over. Although when I rode push bikes I ended up with stitches 3 separate times, that probably didn't help either.

It took me till I was 28 (thats 2 years of convincing) and a lot of giving them info about how great this helmet I got did in safety test. Wait a week, next piece of positive reinforcement. Constantly letting them know without getting aggressive or confrontational that, this is going to happen.

Trust me when you move out your Mom still won't be happy about the idea. But she's not going to change her mind overnight, it will take time. Don't try convincer her its safe, because its not but its not that dangerous if you have your head screwed on.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by lavid2002

Edit: She wont let me ride period...on road, off road, nothing

Owch.

Maybe that's what you should work on first then. Getting her to let you ride off road on dirtbikes and atv's and she might slowly accept that riding is ok. Then slowly progress toward street.

As I said, I've ridden offroad for many years, so my mom (though never actually watching me in all those years) knew and understood that I was fine on a bike. Her fear was other drivers. She knows multiple people who have been killed on bikes by drunk drivers and people not looking, etc.

I still don't think you should go behind her back, it just isn't going to end well. And when you do get in an accident (almost everyone does as some point), then what? Not that it's something nice to think about, but it does happen.

[Kawasabi]

Don't do it bro. What's not worth loosing? Your mom or a bike?

I waited just until recently for my first bike, and I am 36, twice your age.
Did I miss anything? Don't think so!

PS. YOUR MOM WILL FIND OUT.

[Alex]

If the plan relies on her not finding out, it's destined to fail. I know a number of folks who store their bikes elsewhere for a variety of reasons, including S/O's that aren't keen on bikes. But intending to keep the entire subject secret for any length of time just isn't workable.

Over the next few years, I assume that you are planning on receiving a large amount of continued assistance from your family. (room & board at a very basic level, paying for a chunk or even all of college). Only way your conscience stays clear by openly disobeying her in such a clear way iis IMO if you're willing and able to give all that up. If I were her, and found out you spent thousands on a bike behind her back, I'd certainly consider spending exactly that much less on higher ed. Heck, you had the money and flushed it from her perspective, right?

[Sinister]

If he "loses" his mother because he buys a bike without her permission, there are other problems.

Anyway, no one can really give you advice on what you should do. They can only say what they would do in your position. Personally, i would buy the bike and ride it home and wait for the eventual fight.

She will find out eventually. Whether its 3 weeks, 3 months or 3 years later. Better to get it out of the way sooner than later. Also if wait for her to find out, the confrontation will be forced on you at her choosing. But if you control when she finds out you'll be much better prepared and able to control your temper if it flares.


Even being 30+ when i bought my ninja and being (obviously) completely independant of my parents, my mother flipped when she saw me after finding out about it. i had ridden up to the folks place in the hills to visit and took the bike, mom wasnt home but dad was. When i saw her after that she would barely speak to me. So i pointed out (and im sure people will disagree with this approach, but i know my mother) that if shes so convinced im going to wreck and die she better not spend the time we have left fighting with me since the bike is staying. She called me a bad name, hit me, then gave me a hug and the hard part was over.



Edit: i hadn't considered Alex's angle on the spending priorities, he definately has a point there. Something to consider apart from just the "permission" side of things.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Parents bought me first bike at 9. Lost spleen from crash in the woods at age 13. They bought me new bike next summer. Always came to my mx races right up to college. At end of college I sell bike and get engaged. Mother says to wife - don't let him buy any more bikes!! Wife says - gee that worked well for you for last 12 years!

[Mo1981]

Just tread lightly, sir. She brought you into this world and she can take you out of it as well...
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[Scott1620]

I would wait until you move out and support yourself. That is what I did, im 25, a few years out of college... I grew up riding dirtbikes also, and looked into many of the saftey aspects too. I actually just bought it and rode it to my Moms house one day and said hey look what I got haha... She eventually got over it, but in your situation if your under her roof then I would let it be, theres no way of keeping it from her...

[P1NDLESK1N]

Buy it, worse that happens is you'll get kicked out of the house and live like an awesome cowboy riding from town to town or something.

[PitBull]

I say you should respect your mother's wishes as long as you are living under her roof & being financially supported by her. Once you move out and you are financially independent then go for it.

[Verus Cidere]

I understand your frustration. Riding is a passion, and when someone gets in the way of passion, it makes people angry. Understand though that the only reason she's doing this is because she's worried about you. I agree with pretty much everybody else, hiding it isn't the way to go. Keep talking to her about it. Don't let it sit for any amount of time. Bring it up as often as possible. That will show her that you're unhappy without it, which is something she won't want either.

Most of all, I need to FULLY express to you something that it seems to me you don't understand. You can take the classes, wear the gear, and be careful all you want, there's still a good possibility that you'll get hurt. Taking a turn in the dark and hitting gravel like strider, getting plowed by some idiot when going 5 under the limit in formation like Becky from CSC, hitting an oil slick like another member, going over bad pavement like another.... The list goes on and on. There are far too many ways that you can get hurt on a motorcycle that aren't under your control at all, whether you're wearing proper gear and riding defensively or not. I don't know how many times I've almost died driving as safely as possible because some idiot in a cage decides they can do whatever they want on the road. I'm not saying this to discourage you, or to slow you down in any way, I'm just showing your mom's perspective and clarifying that you understand this. I still say keep at it, but if you're living with your mom and she says no bike, that's the verdict. I'd take room and board over the bike any day. Again, not trying to make the decision for you, just giving you more to think about before you do something that causes a fight. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[travis5018]

I bought a bike at college after my parents said no, they didn't talk to me about it for 3 months. It all worked out in the end

Edit: although I tl;dr your original post I went back, I think you should wait till you move out to buy the bike, the hassle of storage and all that isn't worth not riding for a year or 2.

[OldGuy]

Oh my Dave - so many questions, so many issues and I'm afraid you wont' like the answer most of us give you.

First as many have already said as long as you are living in your mom's house with her support you have a responsibility to honor her wishes regardless if you agree with her or not. Same rules applied to our kids when they were still living with us long after 18.

Second, do not think you can get a bike, and all the gear you need to safely ride, and not have your mom find out about it. She will find out some time or some how.

Consider this one situation though; what if despite all your MSF course work, reading, practice, protective gear, and defensive riding, she finds out that you did get a bike by having you wheeled into her ER on a gurney and the only thing the ER doctor could do was officially pronounce the time of death. Think what that would do to her.

Trust me, until you have children of your own you can not begin to imagine the love she has for you and the fear that something will take you away from her. It sounds like you guys have enough issues to deal with.

I'm not saying you shouldn't continue to have open and honest discussions with her about a bike but for now, show her how much of a man you are by honoring her wishes.

Just an OldGuy's thoughts.

[lavid2002]

Maybe that's what you should work on first then. Getting her to let you ride off road on dirtbikes and atv's and she might slowly accept that riding is ok. Then slowly progress toward street.

I used to race street bikes though...Not street bikes like you....street bikes like the tour de france. You are wearing less year, and your still driving around crazy car drivers. I would go 45 down the bridges in somers point (I had a tac) and only wore a helmet, and some thin clothing, and running shoes.

Either way the hardest thing for me to understand is this. When I move out....6 years down the road. NO WAY will I have the cash for a bike. Half of everything I make goes towards college, hell ive spent like 600 bucks on books this first week. I have been saving for a while and I want to get this bike. If I wait I will spend the money on an apartment or something.

Also...whats the difference...now or 6 years down the road? Will other drivers get safer? Will motorcycle fatalities decrease?

Edit: although I tl;dr your original post I went back, I think you should wait till you move out to buy the bike, the hassle of storage and all that isn't worth not riding for a year or 2.

100% bro I would pay 2 or 3 times that price if it would buy me permission to get a bike

Even being 30+ when i bought my ninja and being (obviously) completely independant of my parents, my mother flipped when she saw me after finding out about it. i had ridden up to the folks place in the hills to visit and took the bike, mom wasnt home but dad was. When i saw her after that she would barely speak to me. So i pointed out (and im sure people will disagree with this approach, but i know my mother) that if shes so convinced im going to wreck and die she better not spend the time we have left fighting with me since the bike is staying. She called me a bad name, hit me, then gave me a hug and the hard part was over.

This is exactly what im saying.....what changes once I live by myself? Nothing! For her, im still at risk, the roads are still just as dangerous. However, for me...everything changes, my financial obligations, my priorities, my time, etc.... its absurd. Weve been neck and neck over this for months and months now. I meet with my therapist on the 22cnd Im going to ask his opinion on the subject. If I get hurt riding the bike thats on me. it would have happened when im 30 or 40 or 50 it will happen when im 18 if its going to. However, I am a safe driver and a defensive one.

[ScraitT]

If your THAT set on having to have a bike, then get one. However, you still should NOT hide it from your mom.

Just show up one day with it and see how things go. Don't go riding, dont hide it, just bring it home and let it sit there for a bit and sink in with her. Keep on her about how youve taken all the right precautions, took the MSF, have gear, got a small bike, etc.

Just let it all sink in for her, but while it does, don't ride the bike, even if it sits there for 2 months....just let her continually see it.

But be prepared that you may end up having to sell the bike if she can't accept it. I would suggest buying an older used 250 so that if you do have to sell if, you don't loose your money. It's better to learn on a older bike anyways since you most likely will drop it.

But seriously, don't hide it...it won't end well. If you HAVE to get it, buy it and put it in her face so she has to start really considering accepting it.

[lavid2002]

Hmmmmm.....What if I were to get one, and just work on it, not ride it...Just install headlight modulators, taillight modulator, fender eliminator, reflective tape, etc.....And just let is sit. Chances are she will make me sell it...but hell....Im not riding it right? So whats the big deal? This is why I want to talk to my therapist hes a pretty smart guy, and he would help me with these kind of things. How does everyone else feel about this option of buying one and letting it sit there. She would FLIP if she came home to a motorcycle...Maybe if I did it in winter. Telling her before I buy it. Say look, sometime this week im buying a bike. Im going to get it to work on it. If you dont want me to ride I wont ride, but I am going to fix up a bike for when I live by myself. I also worked on a marina for 5 years I fixed outboard engines there. I am no mechanic but im pretty savvy with motors. I would enjoy tinkering with it. : )

[noche_caliente]

have you ever noticed that when little kids are playing and it gets quiet, they're usually doing something they shouldn't? They KNOW it's the wrong thing to do and they shouldn't be doing it, so they try to be quiet and sneaky about it, but they still get caught.... You're exhibiting the same behavior. If you love your mom, you will man up and respect her wishes for a bit longer. Perhaps in time her opinion will change. I can't say that what I did was much better, we hid my bike from my inlaws and my mom, though my dad knew since he rides and I wanted his advice. Even HE tried to talk me out of it. It was a couple of months before my mom found out, and even longer before my inlaws found out, but we don't live anywhere close to them either... to this day my mother will quickly hang up the phone when the bike or riding is mentioned after adamantly stating that she doesn't like that thing and she doesn't want me on it... the only bright side is that it's a nice bonding time when I get to ride with my daddy
While you think you're the best driver out there (we all do when we're you're age) I can almost guarantee that same attitude is what will get you hurt because it will allow you to surpass your limits with the mistaken belief that you're so great nothing bad can happen.... you ask what 6 years will change, it will begin changing that impression
I had my outlook changed when I shattered my kneecap at 18 and had reconstructive surgery, followed by another surgery on each knee.... you get a lot more cautious after something like that... I am fortunate enough to have two members close to me that will tolerate my mothering and ride with me from time to time, and at least one of them has said that my over-cautious attitude probably saved his skin more than once... with age comes maturity and responsibility... I know you THINK you are there now, but when you add another 10 years, you will realize that you are probably not... hopefully you'll still be with us in 10 years and be able to look back at this... AND still in the good graces of your mom

[lavid2002]

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

have you ever noticed that when little kids are playing and it gets quiet, they're usually doing something they shouldn't? They KNOW it's the wrong thing to do and they shouldn't be doing it, so they try to be quiet and sneaky about it, but they still get caught.... You're exhibiting the same behavior. If you love your mom, you will man up and respect her wishes for a bit longer. Perhaps in time her opinion will change. I can't say that what I did was much better, we hid my bike from my inlaws and my mom, though my dad knew since he rides and I wanted his advice. Even HE tried to talk me out of it. It was a couple of months before my mom found out, and even longer before my inlaws found out, but we don't live anywhere close to them either... to this day my mother will quickly hang up the phone when the bike or riding is mentioned after adamantly stating that she doesn't like that thing and she doesn't want me on it... the only bright side is that it's a nice bonding time when I get to ride with my daddy
While you think you're the best driver out there (we all do when we're you're age) I can almost guarantee that same attitude is what will get you hurt because it will allow you to surpass your limits with the mistaken belief that you're so great nothing bad can happen.... you ask what 6 years will change, it will begin changing that impression
I had my outlook changed when I shattered my kneecap at 18 and had reconstructive surgery, followed by another surgery on each knee.... you get a lot more cautious after something like that... I am fortunate enough to have two members close to me that will tolerate my mothering and ride with me from time to time, and at least one of them has said that my over-cautious attitude probably saved his skin more than once... with age comes maturity and responsibility... I know you THINK you are there now, but when you add another 10 years, you will realize that you are probably not... hopefully you'll still be with us in 10 years and be able to look back at this... AND still in the good graces of your mom

So if your mom is against it how did you get a bike at 18?

[emt250]

I wouldn't hide it, if i were you. Either get it and have her deal with it, or wait till you move out.

[adouglas]

Haven't read every post in this thread in detail, but here's my $0.02 for what it's worth.

- Lying to a loved one about something they feel is very important is BAD. I mean REALLY REALLY BAD. It may take, oh, let's see... FOREVER to get their trust back. Which means it may never happen.

Ever.

As in NEVER.

For real, no kidding.

As in do you REALLY want to be living with the consequences of your stubbornness for as long as you mom is alive just to get instant gratification?

- Open, honest engagement is better. It sounds like you've gotten yourself into (i.e. created) a confrontation instead of a negotiation. And yes, I did say you created it because it takes two to create a fight. You even used the word "confronted" yourself. You also labeled your mom as "instable" without saying anything about her other than that she doesn't like motorcycles.

- Fear and opposition come from lack of understanding and familiarity.

So, here's what I recommend. It may be hard to pull off, but if you can do it you'll win.


HAVE YOUR MOM TAKE THE MSF COURSE WITH YOU.


That's exactly what I did with my wife when I wanted a bike shortly after getting married. Once she saw what the real deal was, understood first-hand what responsible motorcycling involves and how competent and sane I was in person, all objections vanished.


If your mom has worked in an ER she's seen the worst consequences of squidly behavior, so it's not at all surprising to me that she instantly associates such horror with all motorcycles and motorcyclists. Logic shuts off because she has SEEN what the aftermath of a bike crash is like.

Argument is ineffective in the face of seeing what she's seen. Think carefully about what actually witnessing, with your own eyes, the consequences of a high-speed bike crash would be like. What would it do to your head? This isn't pictures or movies. This is blood, gore and guts. This is screaming people in agony RIGHT IN YOUR FACE. It is as disturbing as it gets. NO CHIT.

Now picture your GF, best buddy, or whoever is most precious to you in the world in that situation. Now multiply that feeling by 10 or better, and you get the kind of concern a parent has for their kids. This is biologically hard-wired. It is not a matter of judgment or rationality.

If you've truly tried to picture this and you're not freaked out by now, you're not human.

Look, you're young and therefore "invincible" (all young people believe themselves to be incredibly durable, even if you don't think so...I'm 50 and have the benefit of experience... I've been there and thought that and also seen the other side of it). So, if you're looking at this the way I would have at your age (and I think you are), then the sheer logic of being as careful as possible should be a winning strategy.

Not so. Your mom is seeing the bogeyman, not your attempts to be careful. She's thinking of the person who WILL pull out in front of you. She's thinking of your youth and exuberance. She's thinking of that ER horror show and picturing you lying on the gurney.

Walk a mile in HER shoes and approach the discussion that way.

[Sailariel]

I have to agree 100% with what Don (Old Guy) said. I`m another "old guy" with two kids--40 and 35. You said that your mom works in the ER. I worked in the ER for 11 years and cannot begin to describe the carnage your mom sees day by day. And you can`t understand that she is concerned? Almost every person I know who works in an ER has a therapist. Without a therapist one would go into an unbelievable depression with grave consequences. I have always told it like it is. Diplomacy is not my strong suit. So--Here is my unsolicited advice. While you are living under her roof, you play by her rules. While she is supporting you financially in any way, you play by her rules. When you live on your own, and support yourself, you can buy a whole stable of bikes. She may not like it--but, after all, you are on your own. My main man, Sigmund Freud defined Maturity "as the ability to postpone immediate gratification" It is something you might give some thought to. There is lots of time to ride. I have been riding for 50 years---started when I moved away from home AND was financially independent. My father raced motorcycles and was adamant about me not riding.

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by lavid2002

So if your mom is against it how did you get a bike at 18?

That's just it, I didn't get a bike at 18 - I waited until I was 28... and let me tell you going down at 28 is even more scary than it would have been when I was younger, as my son's face was the last thing my mind saw before it happened

[lavid2002]

That's just it, I didn't get a bike at 18 - I waited until I was 28... and let me tell you going down at 28 is even more scary than it would have been when I was younger, as my son's face was the last thing my mind saw before it happened

So why do you ride if its so dangerous...because the positives outweigh the negatives right? Is it any different for an 18 year old?

[HKr1]

Save your money, wait till you move out on your own to get a bike.

Go give your mom a hugg

[Sailariel]

Originally Posted by lavid2002

So why do you ride if its so dangerous...because the positives outweigh the negatives right? Is it any different for an 18 year old?

Yes.

[lavid2002]

- Open, honest engagement is better. It sounds like you've gotten yourself into (i.e. created) a confrontation instead of a negotiation. And yes, I did say you created it because it takes two to create a fight. You even used the word "confronted" yourself. You also labeled your mom as "instable" without saying anything about her other than that she doesn't like motorcycles.

You have to understand why my post is biased I wouldnt post this up because I am happy or excited....I would describe my mom in farther detail but this post is solely about motorcycles....I would love for her to take the MSF course. I wanted her and my brother to come with me...but she said no. I offered to pay : / Should I try again?

[lavid2002]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Yes.

How so

[Sailariel]

Dave, I was a Sergeant and medic in Vietnam 1968--1970. I was 26 years old and the majority of my charges were 18 and 19. There was a difference. These kids wer invincible--incredible warriors---the absolutely best we had. As good as they were, they did need to be reined in a bit, because their enthusiasm and youth could very well get them killed. As an NCO--E-6, I needed to be able to differentiate between youthful exuberance and the reality of the situation. We did kick ass. We also suffered very few casualties. It was a matter of knowing when to do what--and understanding our environment. Try to understand where your mom is coming from. My sense is that she is not some tyrant who is trying to shape you into some mold, rather she is trying to understand why you are so hell bent in engaging in self destructive behaviour (Her impression)--based on what she sees in the ER on a daily basis. Deception is not the answer. You guys are going to have to communicate at some point. It won`t be easy--but you can do it.

[lavid2002]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Dave, I was a Sergeant and medic in Vietnam 1968--1970. I was 26 years old and the majority of my charges were 18 and 19. There was a difference. These kids wer invincible--incredible warriors---the absolutely best we had. As good as they were, they did need to be reined in a bit, because their enthusiasm and youth could very well get them killed. As an NCO--E-6, I needed to be able to differentiate between youthful exuberance and the reality of the situation. We did kick ass. We also suffered very few casualties. It was a matter of knowing when to do what--and understanding our environment. Try to understand where your mom is coming from. My sense is that she is not some tyrant who is trying to shape you into some mold, rather she is trying to understand why you are so hell bent in engaging in self destructive behaviour (Her impression)--based on what she sees in the ER on a daily basis. Deception is not the answer. You guys are going to have to communicate at some point. It won`t be easy--but you can do it.

We have been communicating...and apparently its not working because I dont have a bike (I havn't "won"?) and I haven't agreed to wait, we settled on talking in the spring and now thats out the window (She hasn't gotten her way) So nothing has been established yet.

Do you have any suggestions as to how we can settle this? Discuss it? Etc... I like thebuy a bike and work on it idea, as well as the MSF idea

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by lavid2002

Should I try again?

Yes.

Provide the most rational, understanding line of reasoning you can. Use it as a bargaining tool. Most important, engage her in a reasoning exercise that doesn't allow for simple, flat denial. Make it a negotiation. You give a little, she gives a little. Make it clear that you're negotiating, not demanding or simply requesting. Give and take.

For example:

"I know you're dead-set against this, but I really want you to understand my point of view. I know that from your standpoint I'm being irrational. So I want to give you the opportunity to see first-hand what safe, responsible motorcycling is all about in a controlled situation where we can't get hurt. The only way to truly understand something is to experience it for yourself, wouldn't you agree?"

"This is your opportunity to ask the hard questions of a highly experienced, trained person, the MSF instructor. You may not believe anything I tell you and I don't blame you because I'm young and inexperienced, but these guys have real-world experience and are there to promote safety. Therefore they are trustworthy. So this is your chance to get the straight story from somebody who knows."

"If you take the course with me and, afterwards, still truly and honestly believe that it's too dangerous then I will obey your wishes and not act until I am independent and living on my own. However, if after experiencing safe motorcycling first-hand and operating a motorcycle yourself in a safe, controlled environment you agree that I can ride safely, then you let me buy a bike. I trust you to honestly evaluate what you experience based on its merits and you trust me to put my fate in the hands of a safety-minded third party (the MSF instructor). Is that a fair deal?"

(PS: Be willing to compromise on operation... you're still living in HER house, remember. Trade things like no night riding, chaperoned riding, etc. for owning the bike. Hand her as much control as possible and EARN her trust.)

A side note: Patience is a great virtue. You're BURNING to own a bike right now. That is understandable but it is also, frankly, just plain silly.

Pfeh. When you get older you begin to understand how truly wonderful delayed gratification can be. At 50, I have NO problem waiting a couple of years to get what I want. Victory is much, much sweeter if you have to wait for it.

[Sailariel]

Dave, My sense is that if you look at this as a Win-Lose situation, the outcome will be a "train wreck" Ideally, you want a Win-Win situation, and that will take understanding, giving and taking, compromising, and all that sort of stuff. You mentioned earlier that there was a therapist involved. You might want to get some direction from him/her. This will not be easy. It will take patience on your part, and it will take time. My impression is that there is no father involved--that makes it more difficult. You do have an advantage--given your age, you have lots of time,

[lavid2002]

(PS: Be willing to compromise on operation... you're still living in HER house, remember. Trade things like no night riding, chaperoned riding, etc. for owning the bike. Hand her as much control as possible and EARN her trust.)

I wrote an agreement like this that included all of the above and more minus the chaperone... She didnt sign it : /

A side note: Patience is a great virtue. You're BURNING to own a bike right now. That is understandable but it is also, frankly, just plain silly.

8 years is too long for me this has aged enough time to decap and enjoy

[lavid2002]

My impression is that there is no father involved--that makes it more difficult.

You got it mah man.....Only an uncle, and when he gets involved he agrees with my mom. Maybe thats how he feels but genuinely he was TOTALLY DOWN for me riding, gave me a helmet, encouraged safety, was excited...and once he found out my mom wasnt for it he flip flopped. It sucks that eh got dragged into this hes my fav. uncle but I think its pretty bad If you were excited and all for it he should let my mom know, he rides too...Im going to ride eventually. All this is, is an effort to expedite the process and simplify it.

[empire00]

I just waited till i knew that i had the means to support myself with or without my parents help.

disscussion went like this.

me: im getting a bike
them: no your not
me: no seriously i am
them: not if your going to live under our roof
me: k ill be out next week
them: wait what?
... etc

after i finaly got them to understand there was no way they could stop me they actualy started listening instead of just spouting off variations of the word no.

they understood i was taking the proper precautions and being as safe as posible.
im still living at the house and while there not "supportive" there not nearly as anti bike as they were.