DIY Double Blinker Speed

[ninja250]

DIY Double Blinker Speed

Got a PM from Randomwalk101 (John) wondering if I could figure out how to increase the speed of the blinker. I wasn't quite happy with the slow speed of the stock blinker myself so I accepted the challenge. Figured since I was at it, I'd write it up here too. All credit goes to John..

He told me there was a resistor and a capacitor in there and changing the resistor wasn't working. I figured it would be an RC network type of circuit.

Sure enough I played around with it a bit (only because I was asked of course, this was not my idea) and managed to figure out how to double the speed of the stock blinkers. This will make you much more noticeable in traffic but I don't know about your local laws.

Here's a step by step tutorial how to do the mod, and a video of the results.
Video:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Did the video convince you? Ok then, read on.

Pop the blinker relay off the bike. It's located under the left rear fender side.


Pop the cover off the blinker relay. It's held in place by two tabs on the bottom. A small flat head screwdriver will bend the tabs out of the way easily.


Since changing the resistance of the time circuit doesn't help, we're going to swap out the capacitor. (Long cylindrical thing on the end).
First thing you should do is "short out" the capacitor before you work on it with a screwdriver blade, touching the two terminals of the "cap" (short for capacitor). this will keep you from getting any unwanted 12v surprises.


Now we need a new "cap". If you decrease the cap value the blinker rate increases. If you increase the cap value the blinker rate decreases. This is because a cap with a higher value takes longer to charge. The stock cap in my blinker relay was a 12v 2300uf electrolytic radial polarized.
I opted to replace it with a cap of half that value to get roughly twice the speed. I also used a cap of higher voltage because I feel a 12v cap in a 12-15v variable system isn't quite adequate. So I replaced the capacitor with a 16v 1000uf electrolytic radial polarized capacitor. You can find these at any Radio Shack or electronics shop. If the electronics shop is worth it's own space it operates in, it will have one of these.


Now here's how we do it.
Clamp this puppy up so it doesn't move around. I love my Panavise.


Heat up your soldering iron and heat up the pad on the negative side of the cap. You'll know it's the negative side because it has a big white strip on that side.


While the solder on the heated pad is still hot, bend the capacitor outward until the negative leg of the cap comes free from the pad.


Now you can just heat up the pad that the positive side of the cap goes to with your iron and let the cap fall off the relay. Note: be sure you don't harm the very tiny micro fine wire coming off the metal thing that the positive side of the capacitor is hooked to! It's very small and you don't want to overheat the pad or accidentally hit the wire and break it.

Once you have the old cap desoldered from the pads, put the new cap in place in the clip holder just as the old one was. Make sure the negative side of the cap (white stripe on that side) is lined up to the right terminal like the old cap was (use my pics for reference), then trim and solder the ground side of the cap to the pad.


It wasn't easy to get this picture, sorry it's kinda blurry.


Bend the positive side of the cap back over to the positive terminal that the old cap was soldered to before.


Heat the pad and wire, apply your solder, remove the iron and ensure a nice shiny finish. We wouldn't want any intermittent connections on our blinkers now would we?


That's all there is to it! To finish up, test the relay on your bike first before you close it back up and re assemble your plastics. If you did it right your blinker speed should be doubled or more! If you did it wrong (capacitor backwards) It might pop and start smoking and blow a fuse! Make sure you get that cap in there right and it's the right value and you should be stylin'!
Thanks for the idea John, this one's for you buddy!

[addy126]

Excellent diy... was wondering how to speed up the blinker rate

[randomwalk101]

Wow KC, you're an electronic genius. Thank you!!
Btw, this for stock blinkers, will it work with LEDs signals? Currently I'm using the aftermarket flasher bc if I plug stock flasher in, the load is too low and the signals are all led up.
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[ninja250]

If the LED relay has this type of "R/C time network" inside then it should be the same deal. Just play with capacitor value. Try not to go too far off from stock (don't replace 2300uf with 1 farad!!! lol might be 5 minutes before you get a blink!) and be sure the caps are rated 12-16v. I don't know how the LED systems work yet, I don't have any installed and running and have not researched it.

[tapdiggy]

I put LED flushmounts up front on my bike and that alone almost doubled the blink rate, no reworking the electrics.

[Alex]

Nice work! Added to the DIY sticky...

[HKr1]

Changing the resistor value should work too, they both work together(RC).

Play here:
http://webphysics.davidson.edu/physl...rccircuit.html

[ninja250]

I tried other values but it didn't seem to work.
I think it's a byproduct of the resistance of the coil. Not sure exactly.
Maybe because I didn't have them soldered when I tried (just bent them on) the connection wasn't good.
I figured changing the resistor should have done it too, but it didn't when I tested for some reason.

I was going to try an adjustment potentiometer but figured I didn't want to be messing with it. Just set it to fixed value.

I'm tempted to get another relay to play with now but too many other projects going as it is. I'm happy with my lil stock lights. I didn't even know I'd be doing this mod when I woke up this morning and now the bike has a lil more character for the cost of a capacitor I had on hand.

[randomwalk101]

okay so if I have LEDs all around = draw less current than stock halogen bulbs -> forces the relay's capacity to charge up too quickly = flash wayyy to fast = turn on solid.

To solve this I will need to INCREASE the capacitor to make the capacitor charge up slower = slow down flashing rate so it will flash...

Does my logic make sense here? I'm might be a little buzzed from this "Pre" superbowl booze right now

[jonthechron]

Just use some blinker fluid..

KaleCo Blinker Fluid

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

okay so if I have LEDs all around = draw less current than stock halogen bulbs -> forces the relay's capacity to charge up too quickly = flash wayyy to fast = turn on solid.

To solve this I will need to INCREASE the capacitor to make the capacitor charge up slower = slow down flashing rate so it will flash...

Does my logic make sense here? I'm might be a little buzzed from this "Pre" superbowl booze right now

I would assume if the cap charges too quickly it could stick wide open. (causing always on condition)
Try a bigger cap.. couldn't hurt as long as it's rated enough voltage.
What was the value cap in your LED blinker? What value did you replace it with?

I had a few (hundred) here on hand so was able to test which value was gonna work on my system without having to make multiple trips to an electronic store. The 1000uf should be fine for stock but yes, it sounds like the LEDs blink faster so probably need to increase the cap size from what is in the LED relay. (longer charge time)

Also if the cap is bad or didn't get installed right for some reason this would create a no blink condition too. Try not to use too much heat when installing it so you don't overheat stuff or that little tiny wire I talked about, but make sure the connection was hot enough and enough solder flux was present (usually contained inside the solder) so that the solder hardens nice and shiny like a mirror. If it hardens and looks like aluminum and dull, it needs to be redone.

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

okay so if I have LEDs all around = draw less current than stock halogen bulbs -> forces the relay's capacity to charge up too quickly = flash wayyy to fast = turn on solid.

To solve this I will need to INCREASE the capacitor to make the capacitor charge up slower = slow down flashing rate so it will flash...

Does my logic make sense here? I'm might be a little buzzed from this "Pre" superbowl booze right now

Sound right enough, I'll try this when I get my LEDs in 2 weeks.

[randomwalk101]

Yeah we have an elec store here that sells all kinds of craps. Will pick up a few to try out. They closed today though.
Stock is 1600 so prob go with 2500 3000 and 3500 or something and see what's going on. The aftermarket led low load relay is on the bike so I'll have to pull it and crack it open to see. Sometimes they clues filled the whole thing too and that would sucks.
As for the resistor, stock value is like 115? Should I double that and try it out?
Posted via Mobile Device

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by jonthechron

Sound right enough, I'll try this when I get my LEDs in 2 weeks.

When you get your LEDs, more than likely you'll have to increase your cap and if you replace all four corners, you'll have to use two diodes to separate out the right and left otherwise if you hit signal, all four will blink
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[ninja250]

As for the resistor, stock value is like 115?

That sounds like maybe 115ohms which isn't very much. I think the coil adds a bunch more resistance to the circuit.
You could try replacing the resistor. I'm not positive it will make as much of a difference as the capacitor does though. I'm not sure.
Also not sure weather or not to go up or down in value for the resistor.

they have these things called "SIP sockets". You can take them and separate the individual pins, then solder the pins to the relay, and use those pins as plugs to plug whatever resistor and capacitor you want in or out. Like how I made the chips in the shift/lean gauge pluggable. Buy a chip socket at Radio Shmack and cut the sockets out individual and solder them on to use as plugs to test different value resistors and capacitors.

[randomwalk101]

btw KC, are you swapping out to LEDs for all 4 corners?

[ninja250]

Just gonna run the stock lights for now.
Might do protons in the future.
I don't even know if those are LED or not. Haven't checked.

[randomwalk101]

protons are LEDs

[kevlar250]

Stock flasher won't flash LED's, you need one of these: LFS-1-Flat from
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...2Fflashers.htm.
You will also need to do the diode mod to the dash indicator bulb to prevent "4-way flasher syndrome".

[ninja250]

I'm wondering if changing (increasing) the stock relay capacitor value will flash the LEDs.
I guess I'll find out when I get there. Light mods weren't on my list until the very bottom, after exhaust and a damper.

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by kevlar250

Stock flasher won't flash LED's, you need one of these: LFS-1-Flat from
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...2Fflashers.htm.
You will also need to do the diode mod to the dash indicator bulb to prevent "4-way flasher syndrome".

I bought some electronic LED flashers for 1,50$ locally. 9$ + S&H seems kinda pricey.

What is the legal flash rate? 70-95 blinks/minute?

[randomwalk101]

Yeah I have aftermarket flasher to have all LEDs to work... But want to mod the stock flasher for fun. I'm trying to make it flashes faster than stock speed to be more noticible to cagers.
Posted via Mobile Device

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by ninja250

I'm wondering if changing (increasing) the stock relay capacitor value will flash the LEDs.
I guess I'll find out when I get there. Light mods weren't on my list until the very bottom, after exhaust and a damper.

I think you can test it out by unplugging three of the stock lights.. I think the resistance is about same as four LEDs?
Posted via Mobile Device

[randomwalk101]

okay, busted open the Elec LED flasher and there are two cap in there..one is 1mF and one 100mF I think...but the darn thing is all "sealed" up..mean in they seal the thing with glue or something so they can't be removed...the chips and all so it looks like can't really take them out without damaging the circuit board. Stock one has that coil thing but the Elec LED flasher uses a couple of chips.
i'll pick up a few diff valve capacity and mess with the stock one instead.

[ninja250]

No way to get the stuff off the LED relay? Is it rubber or like black-ish epoxy?
Yeah if it doesn't have the coil it might not be the same type of RC network circuit. If there is chips then one of those caps is probably a power smoother and who knows what the other could be doing. The chips probably handle the rc network function instead in a different manner.. or maybe one of the chips is a tiny sealed up electronic relay.

If I had the LEDs I'd try and figure it out. Try like a 4300uf 16v with the LEDs on the stock relay. I'm hoping you don't fry the LEDs though so be careful. I'm not sure how that whole thing works out yet until I play with it in my hands and get a feel for it. You might have to take the diodes off for the stock relay with new cap to work too. Not positive

Just don't fry something. Be careful in those wires.

[Momaru]

KC, thanks for the DIY, I've been wondering if it was the cap or the resistor but didn't want to futz with my stock relay too much.

Originally Posted by kevlar250

You will also need to do the diode mod to the dash indicator bulb to prevent "4-way flasher syndrome".

Here's a couple threads on it:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=134684
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24500

[Sailariel]

KC, I want to leave my directionals stock, but would like to be able to have four way flashers. We have a bicycle road race scheduled for the end of May, and I will be riding my Ninjette ahead of the pack to hopefully ward off cagers. Do you have any suggestions? The other bike doing this will be a Honda VF600R. He may also be interested in a four way flash system.

[ninja250]

edit:
Oh I see, like all four flashing at once. "Emergency blinkers"
I will see what I can do when I get time.

I have a feeling I'm gonna have figure out how our entire blinker system works soon. I don't quite understand the full thing yet. I just opened up the relay.
I'll have to look up the light circuit and probably do more tinkering.
If you added another switch anything is possible. I'll have to look more into modding the stock stuff to do that.

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by ninja250

edit:
Oh I see, like all four flashing at once. "Emergency blinkers"
I will see what I can do when I get time.

I have a feeling I'm gonna have figure out how our entire blinker system works soon. I don't quite understand the full thing yet. I just opened up the relay.
I'll have to look up the light circuit and probably do more tinkering.
If you added another switch anything is possible. I'll have to look more into modding the stock stuff to do that.

Feel free to check my diagram (actually the second pic down).. First on the sticky list.

Ninja 250R turn signal wiring diagram.

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by ninja250

If I had the LEDs I'd try and figure it out. Try like a 4300uf 16v with the LEDs on the stock relay. I'm hoping you don't fry the LEDs though so be careful.

Just don't fry something. Be careful in those wires.

any idea how big that 4300mF cap? Problem is if it's might be too big to fit back into the box

[Momaru]

Originally Posted by jonthechron

Feel free to check my diagram (actually the second pic down).. First on the sticky list.

Ninja 250R turn signal wiring diagram.

Also might take a gander at pg 16-54 in the FSM, it's got the turn signal circuit broken out of the full diagram, minus the ignition switch detail.

[kevlar250]

For four-ways add a switch that joins the gray & green wires going to the dash turn ind. bulb and operate the turn signal switch, either way. If you want the dash ind. bulb to flash also do the diode mod to it.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by kevlar250

For four-ways add a switch that joins the gray & green wires going to the dash turn ind. bulb and operate the turn signal switch, either way. If you want the dash ind. bulb to flash also do the diode mod to it.

Nice, thanks.
Saves me from having to hack into my bike

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

any idea how big that 4300mF cap? Problem is if it's might be too big to fit back into the box

You might have to search around. Some places have smaller ones than others. I'll see if I have one here later today. If not just get the highest value you can sandwich in there.

[randomwalk101]

Dropped by the local elec store and picked up a 4700mF 16v and 500 ohm pot today. Will test it out tonight when I get out of the sweat shop. Need to take care of the Toyota gas pedal too...dang no time..
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[randomwalk101]

okay so i soldered the 4700 cap up and also the 500ohm resistor to the stock relay..plugged it in and hit the signal....solid. Failed!

I guess stock relay don't play well with LEDs signals...back to the drawing board.

edit: 500ohm resistor --> 500 ohm pot
tried to turn up and down the pot, no go .

[ninja250]

I'll check it out for you when I get my protons but might be a while.
Or some more LEDs when I go to the electronics shop.
We'll get it! Hang in there.

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

okay so i soldered the 4700 cap up and also the 500ohm resistor to the stock relay..plugged it in and hit the signal....solid. Failed!

I guess stock relay don't play well with LEDs signals...back to the drawing board.

edit: 500ohm resistor --> 500 ohm pot
tried to turn up and down the pot, no go .

Also tried with a 10-300 POT no go.

[DarkNinja52]

Nice DIY. A few things, aside from mentioning you are an electrical engineering god.

My stock flasher relay seemed slow, but I replaced it with an electric relay (when I installed led signals) which seems to blink much faster. is that just in my head or would different relays actually have different speeds?

Also, I installed the HTS Proton Turn Signals and they have a "strobe" option when installing them, and each blink consists of its own series of 'mini blinks'. I'll post a vid for those who are interested.

I would love to know everythign that you know, would def make my life a bit easier haha