So I got the dreaded text from the former DRZ owner saying he wanted to trade back today. I tried to help him fix the dirt bike title issue but hes just fed up with it. Sucks ive dumped so much money at this point into both bikes. Basically im getting ****ed both ways. Doest look like im getting paid the rest of the money for the repairs for the dirt bike ($600) and I had to pay reg. for the DRZ plus i got a new seat for it because I am short...

Basically **** craigslist. I have never stolen anything in my life. I have never ripped anyone off in my life... and this is why the idea of karma is bullshit. lol.


ANYWAYS. If you guys want to help me out. Id love to powder coat stuff for you if you have anything. I have limited colors, but I do still have that crazy green and then your standard black,white, red, blue..

I basically need to come up with 3K to keep the DRZ.. :(



K, Im going to go cry now. :/

Can you powder coat my crutches?

Important lessons learned:

1. Never give anyone any money until you have, in your hand, a valid signed title from the seller or authorized agent, and you've verified the VIN on the title and bike are exactly the same. Not one digit or letter different. Go to your state's title office and learn exactly what forms are needed and what info on the title is important. For instance, here in Texas the title has a place on the front and back for the person whose name is on the title to sign. The owner signs on the front upon receipt of the title (it is not valid until that occurs) and the owner signs on the back in the spot marked "Seller" when it is sold. There is also a separate form that needs to be filled out and signed by both the seller and buyer, it's form number 130-U, Application for Texas Certificate of Title, and both it and the fully completed title have to be turned in to the DMV in order to get a new title issued in the buyer's name. If anything is left blank on either the title or 130-U, or only the title is turned in, it will be automatically rejected. If there are alterations, erasures, white-outs, markouts, etc. on any part of the title, including the signature/date lines, the title becomes void. You cannot BS your way past these requirements. BTW, a Bill of Sale has no meaning WRT titling, buying, or selling. If you buy a vehicle with a BOS only in Texas, what you've done is buy a vehicle with no title. Learn the laws and rules in your state to avoid problems with hinky sellers.

2. All sales are as-is, where-is, even to best friends and relatives. Especially best friends and relatives. They're the most likely to try and take advantage of their relationship with you. You can use a written contract to enforce that, make sure it's dated and signed, preferably with a witness, even better notarized. That's where a Bill of Sale is handy, but only if it states the above disclaimer. If I am dealing with someone who seems dodgy, someone who gives me the impression that the where-is, as-is bit is something he or she thinks they can BS their way around, I abort the sale. I don't need the headache.

BTW, offering a vehicle (which includes motorcycles) for sale here in Texas without having in your possession a clear title in your name (or with you listed as an authorized agent) is an actual crime:

Sale or Offer without Title Receipt or Title
Transportation Code Section 501.152
(a) Except as provided by this section, a person commits an offense if the
person:
(1) sells, offers to sell, or offers as security for an obligation a motor
vehicle registered in this state; and
(2) does not possess the title receipt or certificate of title for the vehicle.
(b) It is not a violation of this section for the beneficial owner of a vehicle to sell or offer to sell a vehicle without having possession of the certificate of title to the vehicle if the sole reason he or she does not have possession of the certificate of title is that the title is in the possession of a lienholder who has not complied with the terms of Section 501.115(a) of this code.

No person in this State may offer for sale any motor vehicle registered out of state without having in his or her possession a title or registration receipt if the motor vehicle is from a non title state.


ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/vtr/title_manual_book_451.pdf

Argh...I feel for you, man :imsorry:

Suckfest. But like I said before it did seemed sketchy trading for a dirtbike in order to get the DRZ. Why didn't you just sell the 250 for cash? Trades just seem sketch to me.

Is there anyway you can get your ninja back?? Did you ever get in contact with that guy?

Well so actually both of you guys got f***** by the guy with your ninja. The DRZ guy will have to retitle the bike and reinsure it and everything. What a mess.

Must be nice to be the guy with your ninja! Haha. He got rid of a pointless dirt bike which cant be registered.

Important lessons learned:

1. Never give anyone any money until you have, in your hand, a valid signed title from the seller or authorized agent, and you've verified the VIN on the title and bike are exactly the same. Not one digit or letter different. Go to your state's title office and learn exactly what forms are needed and what info on the title is important. For instance, here in Texas the title has a place on the front and back for the person whose name is on the title to sign. The owner signs on the front upon receipt of the title (it is not valid until that occurs) and the owner signs on the back in the spot marked "Seller" when it is sold. There is also a separate form that needs to be filled out and signed by both the seller and buyer, it's form number 130-U, Application for Texas Certificate of Title, and both it and the fully completed title have to be turned in to the DMV in order to get a new title issued in the buyer's name. If anything is left blank on either the title or 130-U, or only the title is turned in, it will be automatically rejected. If there are alterations, erasures, white-outs, markouts, etc. on any part of the title, including the signature/date lines, the title becomes void. You cannot BS your way past these requirements. BTW, a Bill of Sale has no meaning WRT titling, buying, or selling. If you buy a vehicle with a BOS only in Texas, what you've done is buy a vehicle with no title. Learn the laws and rules in your state to avoid problems with hinky sellers.

2. All sales are as-is, where-is, even to best friends and relatives. Especially best friends and relatives. They're the most likely to try and take advantage of their relationship with you. You can use a written contract to enforce that, make sure it's dated and signed, preferably with a witness, even better notarized. That's where a Bill of Sale is handy, but only if it states the above disclaimer. If I am dealing with someone who seems dodgy, someone who gives me the impression that the where-is, as-is bit is something he or she thinks they can BS their way around, I abort the sale. I don't need the headache.

BTW, offering a vehicle (which includes motorcycles) for sale here in Texas without having in your possession a clear title in your name (or with you listed as an authorized agent) is an actual crime:

Sale or Offer without Title Receipt or Title
Transportation Code Section 501.152
(a) Except as provided by this section, a person commits an offense if the
person:
(1) sells, offers to sell, or offers as security for an obligation a motor
vehicle registered in this state; and
(2) does not possess the title receipt or certificate of title for the vehicle.
(b) It is not a violation of this section for the beneficial owner of a vehicle to sell or offer to sell a vehicle without having possession of the certificate of title to the vehicle if the sole reason he or she does not have possession of the certificate of title is that the title is in the possession of a lienholder who has not complied with the terms of Section 501.115(a) of this code.

No person in this State may offer for sale any motor vehicle registered out of state without having in his or her possession a title or registration receipt if the motor vehicle is from a non title state.


ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/vtr/title_manual_book_451.pdf

Yeah I learned a sad and expensive lesson :/ But youre right. I messed up.

Not sure if the laws are like that here in CA, I know you can sell with just a bill of sale or at least it happens. Also I cannot contact the other idiot who gave me the dirt bike, but it all else fails I may actually file criminal charges as he gave me a forged state document (title) and he knew is was phony because he gave me some bullshit story. Im going to the DMV to see what is owed on the lien if its not much (it probably will be though) ill pay it off then start a lien sale threw my friends mechanics shop. if not ill dump it or just ride it around my parents 400 acres, until I figure out something to do with it.

Argh...I feel for you, man :imsorry:

Yeah dude sucks. but ive learned a valuable lesson... dont make my mistakes guys. just DONT trust people on CL... gah, im such a dummy.

Suckfest. But like I said before it did seemed sketchy trading for a dirtbike in order to get the DRZ. Why didn't you just sell the 250 for cash? Trades just seem sketch to me.

Is there anyway you can get your ninja back?? Did you ever get in contact with that guy?

Well so actually both of you guys got f***** by the guy with your ninja. The DRZ guy will have to retitle the bike and reinsure it and everything. What a mess.

Must be nice to be the guy with your ninja! Haha. He got rid of a pointless dirt bike which cant be registered.
no I cant even get ahold of him, however I have a check im suppose to cash on the 10th. If it goes through I might believe he is actually having phone problems. If it doesnt Ill know he was ripping me off the whole time and ill probably file criminal charges if I cant get this sorted out. (im impatient) so im going to try and sort this bs out myself.

You took a post-dated check from a guy on craigslist? :eek:

This whole trade was screaming bad idea from the start.

^^
What he said.


This is why people usually say "Cash only" on CL. So they don't get screwed.

http://www.all-about-laughter.com/images/SimpsonsNelsonMuntzHaHa.gif

http://www.all-about-laughter.com/images/SimpsonsNelsonMuntzHaHa.gif

:whathesaid:

:(

I went to the DMV today and the dirt bike isnt in the system. I have given the guy all the forms and instructions for him to fill them out to get the dirt bike in his name. Hopefully he will do it. If not Ill just do it and sell it later. Kind of over the BS.

yeah, I know im dumb Ive already said that. I just trusted the kid. It wont happen again.


A sad state of affairs when you cant trust someone to just be honest with you....

You took a post-dated check from a guy on craigslist? :eek:

This whole trade was screaming bad idea from the start.

for the repairs. Not the whole amount. I still got 1500 in cash.

He had been working with me the whole time up until he got my title... then no more contact.. duh. stupid stupid stupid

*hind sight is always 20/20

Oh **** Justin. First I've heard of this.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs40/f/2009/007/c/1/sad_by_Yoshiko_86.gif

The police should easily be able to track this guy. If you sent him your title then presumably he would need to transfer it to himself before he can sell the ninjette on. If you have your ninjette number plate details, then they should be able to find him.

This thought just occurred to me... Why are you obligated to trade back just because the guy wants to? If it is possible to register this bike and you, in good faith, never knew something was weird with the title; he shouldn't be able to force you into trading back just because it's too difficult for him. In my eyes the trade is as-is and it sounds like it is possible to title it over to him. Buyers remorse?

The guy you traded with should bear some of the risk of dealing on craigslist as well.

Oh **** Justin. First I've heard of this.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs40/f/2009/007/c/1/sad_by_Yoshiko_86.gif

The police should easily be able to track this guy. If you sent him your title then presumably he would need to transfer it to himself before he can sell the ninjette on. If you have your ninjette number plate details, then they should be able to find him.
Yeah Im not sure if im going to pursue criminal stuff yet.

This thought just occurred to me... Why are you obligated to trade back just because the guy wants to? If it is possible to register this bike and you, in good faith, never knew something was weird with the title; he shouldn't be able to force you into trading back just because it's too difficult for him. In my eyes the trade is as-is and it sounds like it is possible to title it over to him. Buyers remorse?

The guy you traded with should bear some of the risk of dealing on craigslist as well.
I suppose I could force him into taking me to court, but I am ethically not ok with that...

Maybe. You can sell me a bike and sign the title and then I can sell that same bike to someone else and hand them the title you signed without ever going to DMV to register it in my name.

Course if someone does this they are trying to quickly unload something they just bought (usually) so that should raise a red flag. If they have had the bike for a while and never registered it that also should raise some red flags.

People love to ignore red flags though instead opting to hope they will get something better than they have.

There is no title. here is the current update.


Went to the DMV to check on the dirt bike status for the guy who has it now. (hes fed up with the ordeal, and rightly so, so ive been doing the leg work for him) I found out it is not even in the CA system. Apparently this is good. I talked to a friend of the familys and he gave me a game plan with some loop holes to use. So we are going to try that out. Im hoping it goes off without a hitch and Peter gets it registered in his name and everything is good.



As far as the deal with Christian... I cant report the ninja stolen as ive already signed away the pink, and released interest. Dumb, I know. I am far to trusting and ive learned my lesson.

However if the check doesnt go through he may be looking at some serious repercussions from me.
1. He forged a state document (the title)
2. If the check bounces he will have stolen money from me.

If I/peter am not able to reg. the bike I will pursue CRIMINAL charges. If just the check bounces I will probably just take him to small claims court and want the $400 plus damages. so probably try to get like $1500 (id give $500 to peter). I think thats fair in all honesty. The bike he gave me was trashed I dumped money and SO MUCH TIME into the trade..... Time is money.

Anyways thats the game plan.

If I wasn't 3000 miles away from you, I'd have you do some powdercoating :P

If part of the deal was cash and he paid you with a bad/bogus check then it is theft by deception. In the state of california (and many others) it is presumptive evidence of intent to defraud if they do not immediately make good on a check if it bounces.

Banks are not required to honor post dated checks. When you post date a check you change the instrument from a draft to a bill of exchange. You will notice that the date line does not say "not valid before" or "payable on or after" or anything that way. When you sign up for a checking account there is a notice to this effect. With that said banks are not required to pay early either.

Finally you released title to the ninja as part of an overall transaction. It was not an isolated transfer. You got a bike in trade under the premise that you could register it, that you could at your option sell/transfer it in the future, etc. It is unreasonable to assume that anyone would buy a motor vehicle they cant register, cant use because the laws require it to be registered, etc. In California it is illegal to have a motor vehicle even without registration, if it does not run you are supposed to non-op it and pay the $5/year or whatever.

Now if you reported the ninja stolen then it is likely the cops will only file a report and tell you to take it to court. If I loan you my car and you never give it back that is all they will do so I would imagine that a similar thing would happen in this case. When/if the check bounces then you have something they can and probably will go after.

It may be worthwhile to get a report filed now, that police report may be handy in the future if you do go to court because you have to prove your side of things. Police reports contain interview notes and other things which is often admissible to corroborate claims of what was said when (often they are given more weight than that as if what they contain is fact when its just a retelling of what was said).
I dont think I can report it as stolen. idk ill look into it.

If I wasn't 3000 miles away from you, I'd have you do some powdercoating :P

haha thanks man. yeah Hawaii is pretty far and I dont think it would be cost effective. I hear that. lol