The type of shopper the Ninja 300 and cbr250r attract are price conscientious ones. Most shoppers for these bikes are not enthusiast but people getting into biking for the first time. Most of these new buyers have heard of Honda and its reputation and most likely haven't heard of Kawasaki. They don't care about 300cc versus 250cc, rear tire size, etc.

The Ninja 250r used to be the 5th selling motorcycle in the US.
Kawasaki had a monopoly on the entry sport bike for many years. The Ninja 300 is a reactive response to Honda's cbr250r. The whole point of the Ninja 300 was to win back loss market share. But how does Kawasaki expect to beat Honda by charging $600* more for the base and $800* more for the abs model. In 5 years I'm sure the cbr250 will continue to dominate the Ninja.

Now I'm the type of buyer that spends $3000 on wheels or $1000 for a piece of carbon fiber to attach on my car. So buying the ninja 300 abs is not an issue for me. But I just don't see Honda losing this war.

*calculated using 2012 cbr pricing with the expectation that 2013 will have a $100 increase.

The cbr250 really lags on the freeway. As long as honda sells a 250 single, kawi will be winning

You registered to post this, umm, why?

Only reason Kawasaki is failing is because it's marketing sucks. I mean did anyone watch that event today? The bikes themselves are great, the Ninja 300 at 4700 is competitive and still under the magic 5000 mark and the 636 looks like it's 10 years ahead of the other Japanese 600s - but wow, the way they presented it. What a disaster.

I agree increasing the price is probably the wrong move. People don't know about Kawasaki in general, and they default to Honda because they trust the reputation. I think Kawasaki still needs a bike to better compete on price with the CBR, things like slipper clutches as standard equipment have me scratching my head.

You registered to post this, umm, why?

I know you think my point is to just attack Kawi. But I am not the type of person that follows a brand blindly. I like to voice my concern and opinions rather than sit back and watch a model or company I admire or like fall into obscurity. I would like to see the 300 prosper and really give the cbr competition so future ninja and cbr owners can get a better bike next generation.

You registered to post this, umm, why?

I originally signed up to post some meaningless BS drivel about using supersport bikes as commuters. We all have to start somewhere. :D

I like to voice my concern and opinions rather than sit back and watch a model or company I admire or like fall into obscurity. I would like to see the 300 prosper and really give the cbr competition so future ninja and cbr owners can get a better bike next generation.

And your comment did that, umm, how?

How do you figure displacement doesn't matter?
If it didn't matter why do people contemplate between 600 and 250 starters?
How do you figure a entry level rider isn't an enthusiast?
They have to do some amount of research before buying a first bike.

The extra money you pay goes to buying a much better bike(spec wise).

BTW, unless the weight savings on your wheels is significant you likely gained nothing from doing that.

How do you figure displacement doesn't matter?
If it didn't matter why do people contemplate between 600 and 250 starters?
How do you figure a entry level rider isn't an enthusiast?
They have to do some amount of research before buying a first bike.

The extra money you pay goes to buying a much better bike(spec wise).

BTW, unless the weight savings on your wheels is significant you likely gained nothing from doing that.

Everything I say is just my opinion. But for most shoppers the difference between a 250 and 300 is not as great as say a 250 and 600. People that buy a 600 or 1000 are most likely buying their 2nd maybe 3rd bike. They have experienced what they like and don't like. Most people that buy a 250 are getting their first bike. So they are not an experienced enthusiast. And this is just my opinion but most shoppers do not study and research before buying their first bike, unlike members on this forum.

I am aware about weight savings as my tire and wheel package weighs less than my oem forged wheels. See, you and I research and know a lot of detail. I wouldn't say that about most shoppers that go into the dealerships.

Everything I say is just my opinion. But for most shoppers the difference between a 250 and 300 is not as great as say a 250 and 600. People that buy a 600 or 1000 are most likely buying their 2nd maybe 3rd bike. They have experienced what they like and don't like. Most people that buy a 250 are getting their first bike. So they are not an experienced enthusiast. And this is just my opinion but most shoppers do not study and research before buying their first bike, unlike members on this forum.

I am aware about weight savings as my tire and wheel package weighs less than my oem forged wheels. See, you and I research and know a lot of detail. I wouldn't say that about most shoppers that go into the dealerships.

The cbr250 is a single, it has like 21rwhp or something like that, the ninja 300 will have about 31rwhp essentially being 50% more powerful. Is that not a significant difference? Is 50% more power not worth $600 more? Because a lot of people go ahead and spend $300 on an exhaust can that does jack ****, and if they have room in the budget for that it will be very easy to convince them into a ninja 300

And your comment did that, umm, how?

Kawasaki does read the forums for feedback. But will they read my post? Maybe not. Anyways, I'm not saying kawasaki and the ninja are bad. I just think they need to price their bikes very closely to Honda's bikes if they wanto win back the market share they lost. I do plan to buy the 300 abs as soon as the riding season starts though. I've already bought some of my gear.

Anyways, I'm not saying kawasaki and the ninja are bad.

The Ninja 300 will fail

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b276/seanvoight/most%20used%20pics/a7a3318e.jpg

It's going to play out the exact way it did in 2008. People with the older bikes were outraged at the prices kawi wanted for the new-gen. Yet dealers couldn't keep them in stock, and it was many months before transaction prices started to come down to reasonable levels. Cue the same thing 3 months from now, as people complain that on one hand, dealers are charging too much and they'll never sell any; and on the other hand complain that dealers don't have any in stock and the waitlist is too long.

But more relevant to this thread, starting it with the title "the ninja 300 will fail" is simply absurd.

The cbr250 is a single, it has like 21rwhp or something like that, the ninja 300 will have about 31rwhp essentially being 50% more powerful. Is that not a significant difference? Is 50% more power not worth $600 more? Because a lot of people go ahead and spend $300 on an exhaust can that does jack ****, and if they have room in the budget for that it will be very easy to convince them into a ninja 300

I agree that the 300 is worth it to me because I know how much aftermarket parts cost on a bike or a car. But most buyers won't have a clue to the difference between the cbr250 and 300, except for the price. Just like the people that buy civics, toyotas, etc. There are some enthusiast that know a lot about civics but most of the buyers know little.

Just to let everyone know if you have Costco where you live, you can get Costco pricing. It's pretty much a couple hundred off msrp and no dealer prep charges or destination charges.

I agree that the 300 is worth it to me because I know how much aftermarket parts cost on a bike or a car. But most buyers won't have a clue to the difference between the cbr250 and 300, except for the price. Just like the people that buy civics, toyotas, etc. There are some enthusiast that know a lot about civics but most of the buyers know little.

n00b "I'm a new guy that wants a small bike like a 250"
Dealer "Here we have the cbr250 and the ninja 300"
n00b "what are the deets on these bikes yo?"
Dealer "dafuq.... Oh uh the ninja 300 is faster and has all these cool extras" (and a bigger profit margin snickers the evil conniving dealer)
n00b "oh fa sho?? well let me get the faster one, afterall I'm an easily persuaded idiot that has enough money for a new bike"

And that my friends is how the cbr250 died

Just to let everyone know if you have Costco where you live, you can get Costco pricing. It's pretty much a couple hundred off msrp and no dealer prep charges or destination charges.

not on ninjettes ;)

But most buyers won't have a clue to the difference between the cbr250 and 300, except for the price. J

I'm sure people can tell 300>250 easily.

DUDE! have you seen how sexy it is!! first time buyers always like looks,
300 > honda cbr250r

n00b "I'm a new guy that wants a small bike like a 250"
Dealer "Here we have the cbr250 and the ninja 300"
n00b "what are the deets on these bikes yo?"
Dealer "dafuq.... Oh uh the ninja 300 is faster and has all these cool extras" (and a bigger profit margin snickers the evil conniving dealer)
n00b "oh fa sho?? well let me get the faster one, afterall I'm an easily persuaded idiot that has enough money for a new bike"

And that my friends is how the cbr250 died

Story of my life <3

n00b "I'm a new guy that wants a small bike like a 250"
Dealer "Here we have the cbr250 and the ninja 300"
n00b "what are the deets on these bikes yo?"
Dealer "dafuq.... Oh uh the ninja 300 is faster and has all these cool extras" (and a bigger profit margin snickers the evil conniving dealer)
n00b "oh fa sho?? well let me get the faster one, afterall I'm an easily persuaded idiot that has enough money for a new bike"

And that my friends is how the cbr250 died

I want mo' cee-cee's.
I don't has monies but can you let me finance it?
Aw yeah, send dat **** to my house.
(walks out of dealership only to realize it'll be $8k OTD)

Dealer makes so much profit.

not on ninjettes ;)

That sucks if true. But it's listed on costco's website.

Select Model

Unsure of the model you want? Locate a Dealer to assist you with your selection.

2012 Ninja® 1000
2012 Ninja® 1000 ABS
2012 Ninja® 250R

That sucks if true. But it's listed on costco's website.

Select Model

Unsure of the model you want? Locate a Dealer to assist you with your selection.

2012 Ninja® 1000
2012 Ninja® 1000 ABS
2012 Ninja® 250R

:eek: Since when!? When I bought my 650 and 1000 they didn't have 250s on the list

The type of shopper the Ninja 300 and cbr250r attract are price conscientious ones. Most shoppers for these bikes are not enthusiast but people getting into biking for the first time. Most of these new buyers have heard of Honda and its reputation and most likely haven't heard of Kawasaki. They don't care about 300cc versus 250cc, rear tire size, etc.

The Ninja 250r used to be the 5th selling motorcycle in the US.
Kawasaki had a monopoly on the entry sport bike for many years. The Ninja 300 is a reactive response to Honda's cbr250r. The whole point of the Ninja 300 was to win back loss market share. But how does Kawasaki expect to beat Honda by charging $600* more for the base and $800* more for the abs model. In 5 years I'm sure the cbr250 will continue to dominate the Ninja.

Now I'm the type of buyer that spends $3000 on wheels or $1000 for a piece of carbon fiber to attach on my car. So buying the ninja 300 abs is not an issue for me. But I just don't see Honda losing this war.

*calculated using 2012 cbr pricing with the expectation that 2013 will have a $100 increase.
PFFFFFFFFFFFFTBWAHAHAHAHAH, you must be new here!!!! :happy130:

:eek: Since when!? When I bought my 650 and 1000 they didn't have 250s on the list

Not only that, it also says the pre-arranged prices are available for preorders also.

How good are the discounts?

:eek: Since when!? When I bought my 650 and 1000 they didn't have 250s on the list

I'm not sure when it became available but a month ago I was going to preorder the ninja 650 abs.

Unsure of the model you want? Locate a Dealer to assist you with your selection.

2012 Ninja® 1000
2012 Ninja® 1000 ABS
2012 Ninja® 250R
2012 Ninja® 650
2013 Ninja® 650
2012 Versys®
2012 Z1000
2012 Ninja® ZX™-10R
2013 Ninja® ZX™-10R
2012 Ninja® ZX™-10R ABS
2013 Ninja® ZX™-10R ABS
2012 Ninja® ZX™-14R
2012 Ninja® ZX™-6R
2012 Concours™ 14 ABS
2012 Vulcan® 1700 Voyager®
2012 Vulcan® 1700 Voyager® ABS
2012 Vulcan® 1700 Classic
2012 Vulcan® 1700 Nomad™
2012 Vulcan® 1700 Vaquero™
2012 Vulcan® 900 Classic
2012 Vulcan® 900 Classic LT
2012 Vulcan® 900 Custom
2012 KLR™650
2013 KLR™650
2012 KLX™250S
2013 KLX™250S

Not only that, it also says the pre-arranged prices are available for preorders also.

How good are the discounts?

The discounts are so good you can walk into a dealer, ride out 10 minutes later and you won't even need to bring any lube

Not only that, it also says the pre-arranged prices are available for preorders also.

How good are the discounts?

My understanding is a couple hundred off msrp then just tax and license. Plus Costco sends you a $250 gift card. And something like 20% off stuff at the dealership.

Yep, straight up skip all the bullshit fees, I love it. Oh and if the dealer tells you, you also get $100 off the extended warranty, he is a lying sack of ****

DUDE! have you seen how sexy it is!! first time buyers always like looks,
300 > honda cbr250r


I'm so far from a first time buyer, but I have to agree looks are a big factor in why I bought my Ninja. I have 1200's and 1600's already; size isn't an issue <lol>. I got the Ninja for around town and commuting with good mpg. I do love when I walk out to get on my Ninja; she is a great looking bike and fun to ride!

I keep my high end bikes for special events and long rides with friends. My Ninja is my work horse; I burn it up instead of my expensive stuff. I'll put a ton of cheep miles on my Ninja and buy another. I do like the fuel injection on the 300, but if they over price it, I'll find something else to burn up.

I think 3 of the true reasons for buying a particular bike is being missed.

1, It's looks. Sorry, but I thought the 250 up to 2007 were just ugly and never would have thought of buying one. When the 2008 came out, I just went WOW! It didn't look cheap or like a beginners bike, it looked like the bigger bikes. And many posts here are about people confusing the 250 with much bigger bikes. Now it will be even harder to tell. Looks sells, especially with new buyers. If they see a new 250 next to a ZX10 they will crap their pants at the similarity.

2nd, many people don't care how much a bike costs, they only look at the monthly payment. (I used to sell cars and motorcycles)

3rd, there are bunches of comparo vids of the Honda and kawi. Almost all are a toss up. The Honda has more low end torque for town riding, is more comfortable, but lacks power. The Ninja has better power, but you have to rev em. I think people will find the longer stroke and extra CC's will show up with more low end power and good top end. And the bike will handle a bit better, though heavier, and maybe a bit more comfortable. The big sellers for the Honda "was" the ABS and FI, it has lost those advantages.

The Honda now looks like the econo bike of the pair.

I would bet, Kawi will not be able to make enough 300's for customer demand.

And the fact is, Kawasaki probably loses money on the 250's, but it is worth it to them, as new buyers usually stick with the brand they first buy.

The best thing honda could do right now is drop the price of their 250 to $3999

The best thing honda could do right now is drop the price of their 250 to $3999

Best thing Honda could right now is invest in kawasaki, lol.

I think the 300 is a game changer. The 250 has always been a great beginner bike because of how manageable it was, but I think there was this concern (real or not) that it could not hold its own on the highways.

As Jiggles pointed out, they added 50% more HP. I think the 300 will not only retain its place as a great beginner bike because of the weight and manageability, but now it could be a bike someone could own for a life time, because it can now get up and go. This will not just be a great beginner machine, but also an even commuter.

I think in one move, Kawi is enhancing their image with the beginner bike, but also now able to attract people who want a motorcycle as a cheap option to commute.

You're absolutely right about price, but if that beginner is so concerned about price you get used.

Who is this Kawasaki company? Never heard of em.

to me, the 300 is smacking all of the other manufacturers who dropped their sub 600cc sport bikes, including Honda. It's going to sell well. It's going to sell better than the cbr250. the ONLY reasons to get the cbr250 over the ninjette, are now GONE. More low end torque, EFI, and available ABS. The only other things left would be brand loyalty and price.

Even if the bike doesn't sell that well, it's going to increase competition in the sub 600cc range. I expect to see 400's and 500's popping up within the next few years. Honda used to have sub 600 sport bikes and they were all dropped until the 250. The thing is, the progressive thinking Americans are shifting their opinions on "bigger is better", and starting to see the benefits in something smaller. The motorcycle manufacturers will catch back up to serve their wants and needs. Where there's a demand, you will quickly find a manufacturer.

Who is this Kawasaki company? Never heard of em.

It's a tiny, failing company whose downfall can be traced back to 1983 when they started releasing these 250 cc bikes. Ninjas, I believe they were called?

Ah, the times they are a changing.

Seems like Honda goofed. They should really be taking advantage of the fact that there's only two companies overall a beginner has to look at when it comes to 250's

Looks account for so much. I can easily say that if the CBR250R didn't look like a malnourished VFR1200F, I would prefer it over the Ninja 250R.

The fact that it's a single cylinder doesn't really bother me. There's no question that the Ninja 250 is better on the highway, but generally, 250's aren't ideal for highway use to begin with.

Some beginners shied away from the carbureted 250 and went for the CBR without looking back. But now Kawi finally gets with the times and puts out a FI'd beginner bike that doesn't have a playskool instrument panel. Also, it's still a parallel twin and they've added about 50cc meaning it'll be much friendlier on the highway.

Every reason why someone would prefer the CBR250R to the Ninja 250R is now irrelevant... the 300 even has optional ABS. I would rather Kawasaki stick with 250's and make a fuel injected one with a dated instrument panel :( but beggers can't be choosers.

The MSRP between the Ninja 300 and the 250R is ~$600 apart.
The MSRP between the Ninja 300 and the CBR250R is ~$700 apart.

-The 2013 Honda CBR looks like no changes are being made
-Honda better drop the price on their CBR250R.

Goodnight sweet Honda. :(

n00b "I'm a new guy that wants a small bike like a 250"
Dealer "Here we have the cbr250 and the ninja 300"
n00b "what are the deets on these bikes yo?"
Dealer "dafuq.... Oh uh the ninja 300 is faster and has all these cool extras" (and a bigger profit margin snickers the evil conniving dealer)
n00b "oh fa sho?? well let me get the faster one, afterall I'm an easily persuaded idiot that has enough money for a new bike"

And that my friends is how the cbr250 died

We all know the dealer would immediately take them over to a GSXR 600, or R6 and say that they are great bikes to learn on.

If Kawasaki had sold the FI 250 here that they sell everywhere else Honda wouldn't be selling their 250 here and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Snubbing their customers is a good way for a company to lose those customer's business. I see the 300 as being too little, too late to save Kawasaki's dominance in the small bike market in this country.

Most of these new buyers have heard of Honda and its reputation and most likely haven't heard of Kawasaki.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/184/961/tumblr_lnvvueuSsj1qcj56b.png


you do realize the moment you start thinking "hey i should get a motorcycle" you become aware of kawasaki, honda, suzuki and yamaha instantly right? People haz internetzzz.

Yep. IDK why we didn't get the fuel injected Ninja 250. Biggest fail in the first place.


Also I remember when I didn't know what Kawasaki was. My friend got a Brute Force, told me it was Kawasaki, great company, etc etc. and he laughed at me b/c I've never heard of them :p

The type of shopper the Ninja 300 and cbr250r attract are price conscientious ones. Most shoppers for these bikes are not enthusiast but people getting into biking for the first time. Most of these new buyers have heard of Honda and its reputation and most likely haven't heard of Kawasaki. They don't care about 300cc versus 250cc, rear tire size, etc.

The Ninja 250r used to be the 5th selling motorcycle in the US.
Kawasaki had a monopoly on the entry sport bike for many years. The Ninja 300 is a reactive response to Honda's cbr250r. The whole point of the Ninja 300 was to win back loss market share. But how does Kawasaki expect to beat Honda by charging $600* more for the base and $800* more for the abs model. In 5 years I'm sure the cbr250 will continue to dominate the Ninja.

Now I'm the type of buyer that spends $3000 on wheels or $1000 for a piece of carbon fiber to attach on my car. So buying the ninja 300 abs is not an issue for me. But I just don't see Honda losing this war.

*calculated using 2012 cbr pricing with the expectation that 2013 will have a $100 increase.

Considering the ninja 300 will have just the right amount of power for anyone to ride comfortably. It'll surpass any of it's 250 competitors, it looks like sex; and the cbr 250 looks like crap, has less power, and is at a similar price point, it's a no-brainer. If the resale value of the new ninja 300's aren't too high I'll probably purchase one myself. The new 636 makes me hard too. :thumbup:

I understand this is an online forum full of people who spend an disproportionate amount of time online, but you guys need to take a step back into the real world about how most people buy a motorcycle. Not many people will put the time in to research which brand offers the best package or what a slipper clutch is or the difference between a 250 or a 300. The fact is most people in the real world have never heard of Kawasaki, and a lot of people just default to buying Honda because many people just come from Accords and Civics and have brand loyalty baked in.

Also many people buy based purely on price especially for a starter bike. The CBR250 is already 500 cheaper then the 2012 250, and now it's 700 cheaper. There is a difference between improving a bike in every shape and being competitive in the marketplace. The 2013 Ninja 300 is a better package then the CBR, but it remains to be seen whether increasing the price and adding new features are what most people are looking for in the small displacement motorcycle market, and whether it's enough to pull people away from Honda in terms of brand loyalty.

The cbr250 is a single, it has like 21rwhp or something like that, the ninja 300 will have about 31rwhp essentially being 50% more powerful. Is that not a significant difference? Is 50% more power not worth $600 more? Because a lot of people go ahead and spend $300 on an exhaust can that does jack ****, and if they have room in the budget for that it will be very easy to convince them into a ninja 300

I agree 100%. Especially for beginners who are on the large side.

OP, the kind of people who don't research stuff before they buy are more likely to be the kind of people who will be impressed with the extra cc's. Just sayin. Cue this conversation:

rider 1: Nice bike!

rider2: it's a ninja 300. I needed more POWER and SPEED than I would have gotten with a 250 like yours. I'm just keeping this until I can get a 1000cc supersport.

so, either way you look at it I think there's gonna be a market for the 300

rider2: it's a ninja 300. I needed more POWER and SPEED than I would have gotten with a 250 like yours. I'm just keeping this until I can get a 1000cc supersport.


At least the 300 looks the part.. while I agree that the CBR is a great around town bike for the price I also believe that that people buying NEW bikes arn't looking for an economical means of transportation in the United States.

I mean I could pick up a good condition 90s ear Civic for $2,000 that'll last me years and give me close to 40 mpg. Theres no way id spend over twice that on something I can only ride 9 months out of the year.

Motorcycles are grown up toys for people with extra cash to blow. Now if I have 4k to blow chances are I can find another 700 dollars somewhere to get me a bike that's more capable than the CBR 250 will ever be.

The cbr250 is a single, it has like 21rwhp or something like that,

Beg yours?

You best do some resarch.
Or you just telling porkies again jiggles?
Like your claims for a standard 2012 Ninja lol
or better still your +6hp from just an exhaust heh.

I beg your pardon? When people think of sports bikes... one of the first things to pop up to mind is a ninja...

http://areapnolimits.com/images/product/kawasaki-ninja-250r-dyno_big.png

If that's not 6 hp, I don't know what is...

https://sites.google.com/site/tommyscivicpage/Home/Untitled.jpg

21 hp seems pretty close to me for the CBR

Who is this Kawasaki company? Never heard of em.

Kawasaki is a Japanese Company that makes ships, trains, tractors and various other industrial products.

Just to let everyone know if you have Costco where you live, you can get Costco pricing. It's pretty much a couple hundred off msrp and no dealer prep charges or destination charges.

how the hell has no one told you this yet...

Its the 'NINJA' name that sells first of all. its been around 30 or so years now and has the cool factor, plain and simple.

Then you look at the thing and its slaps the **** out of the CBR in the looks department. Even the current gen is better looking than the CBR.

Then all the noobies wanna go vroom vroom and beat their buddies in the Civics and Corollas, can't do that on the CBR.

This is an evolution for Kawi in the small cc segment.



and Jiggles in what dimension is 21 hp vs 31 hp a 50% increase??? Just off the top of my head its about 30%, which is still significant

At least the 300 looks the part.. while I agree that the CBR is a great around town bike for the price I also believe that that people buying NEW bikes arn't looking for an economical means of transportation in the United States.

I mean I could pick up a good condition 90s ear Civic for $2,000 that'll last me years and give me close to 40 mpg. Theres no way id spend over twice that on something I can only ride 9 months out of the year.

Motorcycles are grown up toys for people with extra cash to blow. Now if I have 4k to blow chances are I can find another 700 dollars somewhere to get me a bike that's more capable than the CBR 250 will ever be.

For people who are looking to get started in motorcycling - price matters a lot. It's not just the fact that you have the money laying around. Husbands have to convince their wives that it's in the budget, kids have to convince their parents and will have spending limits, people between 21 and 29 generally don't have thousands of dollars extra disposable income to just get whatever toy they feel like. If the mentality is you aren't going to keep the beginner bike anyway, why even spend almost 1k extra, why not just save for the bike you really want?

I may not have a business MBA from Harvard, or twenty years experience as an executive marketing motorcycles. I may just be a simple cave man, but there's one thing I do know - the United States is known as being one of the most price competitive markets for motorcycles and for most people working these days with financing at an all time low coming out of the worst recession this generation has seen - 700 dollars is not chump change.

And for people looking to get a small 250 for economy / fuel efficiency reasons, the CBR250R is still much more efficient then the Ninja - I can't imagine that equation changes much by increasing the engine size of the Ninja. New bikes matter to a lot of people who are looking at taking advantage of the unlimited mileage warranty and cheap 5 year extended warranty offered at dealers.

Most of these new buyers have heard of Honda and its reputation and most likely haven't heard of Kawasaki.

Not true. I knew about Kawasaki for 20 years before buying a motorcycle, and I lusted for a Ninja for 15 years before I bought one. Price wasn't the key factor, the fact that the Ninja is the quintessential beginning sport bike was. I don't think I'm the exception either.

I think it's more likely that Kawasaki will CHANGE the minisport class than that they'll lose the class. And even if the CBR gains the lion's share, it will take a long time for the market to shift that much.

.

The fact that it's a single cylinder doesn't really bother me. There's no question that the Ninja 250 is better on the highway, but generally, 250's aren't ideal for highway use to begin with.



Why don't you try riding a motorcycle before you make silly statements

I beg your pardon? When people think of sports bikes... one of the first things to pop up to mind is a ninja...

Yes, on a Kawasaki forum that's true - and for people who are already familiar with sport bikes. Ask 10 random people on the street who makes motorcycles and all 10 will say Honda, you'd be lucky if even one said Kawasaki.

it is apparent that I've never rode a motorcycle:confused:

For people who are looking to get started in motorcycling - price matters a lot. It's not just the fact that you have the money laying around. Husbands have to convince their wives that it's in the budget, kids have to convince their parents and will have spending limits, people between 21 and 29 generally don't have thousands of dollars extra disposable income to just get whatever toy they feel like. If the mentality is you aren't going to keep the beginner bike anyway, why even spend almost 1k extra, why not just save for the bike you really want?

I may not have a business MBA from Harvard, or twenty years experience as an executive marketing motorcycles. I may just be a simple cave man, but there's one thing I do know - the United States is known as being one of the most price competitive markets for motorcycles and for most people working these days with financing at an all time low coming out of the worst recession this generation has seen - 700 dollars is not chump change.

And for people looking to get a small 250 for economy / fuel efficiency reasons, the CBR250R is still much more efficient then the Ninja - I can't imagine that equation changes much by increasing the engine size of the Ninja. New bikes matter to a lot of people who are looking at taking advantage of the unlimited mileage warranty and cheap 5 year extended warranty offered at dealers.

If your a little bit on the heavy side I can see it making a huge difference.

I also don't have an MBA from Harvard but I am an accountant, and it takes a simply bit of math to realize that the difference in the long run is tiny. I'm talking a couple of cheeseburgers a month tiny.


and Jiggles in what dimension is 21 hp vs 31 hp a 50% increase??? Just off the top of my head its about 30%, which is still significant

I'd do the math before I made claims like that. Not trying to be mean or anything but, .5(21) = 10.5, 21+10.5=31.5, so it is in fact a 50% increase.

At the end of the day there will be no fail by Honda or Kawasaki. They both make great bikes and they will both sell for many reasons we could all only dream of. There is a ton of market for these bikes as the price for everything goes up. I am excited to see the class being brought back to life with a bit of competition which will benefit us all as this moves forward.

+1

I'd do the math before I made claims like that. Not trying to be mean or anything but, .5(21) = 10.5, 21+10.5=31.5, so it is in fact a 50% increase.

Lmfao Kawi has 50% more power than the honda and honda has 33% less power than the kawi

The type of shopper the Ninja 300 and cbr250r attract are price conscientious ones. Most shoppers for these bikes are not enthusiast but people getting into biking for the first time. Most of these new buyers have heard of Honda and its reputation and most likely haven't heard of Kawasaki. They don't care about 300cc versus 250cc, rear tire size, etc.

The Ninja 250r used to be the 5th selling motorcycle in the US.
Kawasaki had a monopoly on the entry sport bike for many years. The Ninja 300 is a reactive response to Honda's cbr250r. The whole point of the Ninja 300 was to win back loss market share. But how does Kawasaki expect to beat Honda by charging $600* more for the base and $800* more for the abs model. In 5 years I'm sure the cbr250 will continue to dominate the Ninja.


That's utter bollox, Kawasaki is one of the big 4 which everyone with even a passing interest in bikes know.
They've got a real advantage by making all their sports bikes available in kawasaki lime green, it's immediately recognisable.

Many parts of the world have restrictions for new riders (pretty much everywhere except the USA). Europe is standardising at no more than 35kW (about 46bhp) Honda's 250 is about half that, most beginners go for the highest powered machine legally allowed, I was predicting a 45bhp, 400 from one of the big 4 to be announced.

Kawasaki is also one of the biggest companies in the world, they've made everything from sections of the International Space Station, to nuclear power plants, attack helicopters to bullet trains & jet engines, submarines & the biggest selling bike worldwide.

If I was starting over & had the choice between the ninja 250 (08) & the CBR 250 it would be no contest, ninja 250, in a choice between the ninja 250 & 300 I'd go for the 300.

The CBR 250 has it's niche, but it's a city commuter only, it does it very well, but so does a dullville.

I hope they both succeed in sales. A lot of Ninja owners generally knock the cbr 250 yet have never even ridden one. Its all about loyalty as Kawi folks go hard for their ninjas and honda folks go hard for their cbr's. I love them both but I think Kawasaki should have come out with a 400cc as the 300cc is just too close in engine size of the 250. I expect dealers won't be able to keep the 300s in stock. Hondas best bet would be to come out with the 400cc cbr or 500cc cbr or be in some trouble with the 250 cbr in the near future.

Now I'm the type of buyer that spends $3000 on wheels or $1000 for a piece of carbon fiber to attach on my car. So buying the ninja 300 abs is not an issue for me.

I don't see how this is relevant info. So we're supposed to assume that though you're complaining about the price, it's done understandably so because, hey! In the end of the day, you're the type of buyer who spends $3,000 on wheels or $1,000 for a piece of carbon fiber to attach on your car, right?

For someone not to know Kawasaki or what a bike named Ninja is, it has to be an alien or something else out of this planet.
I have wanted (or lusted for) a Ninja since I was a kid back in the 80's-90's. But the thing about it is that I am from Brazil and Kawasaki didn't start selling Ninjas here until 2009. Before that there wasn't even a pregen here and I already wanted one, just from the name and the very few imported bigger Ninjas around. And there wasn't even internet back then. So, really, if you don't know Kawasaki, you are a alienated person (if that word makes sense in English)

I hope they both succeed in sales. A lot of Ninja owners generally knock the cbr 250 yet have never even ridden one. Its all about loyalty as Kawi folks go hard for their ninjas and honda folks go hard for their cbr's. I love them both but I think Kawasaki should have come out with a 400cc as the 300cc is just too close in engine size of the 250. I expect dealers won't be able to keep the 300s in stock. Hondas best bet would be to come out with the 400cc cbr or 500cc cbr or be in some trouble with the 250 cbr in the near future.

I for one am not looking forward to the current "race to the bottom" which seems to be happening right now in the small displacement motorcycle sector. Adding CCs here and there to a super budget platform is a good recipe for internet bragging rights, but it doesn't exactly produce high quality fun to ride motorcycles. I can't imagine if Honda responds by releasing a 500 CC bike with the same super mushy single disc brakes and barely adequate suspension with only rear preload adjustments they currently put on their CBR250R.

you do realize the moment you start thinking "hey i should get a motorcycle" you become aware of kawasaki, honda, suzuki and yamaha instantly right? People haz internetzzz.

On top of that, there's 2 names people think of when they think crotch rocket: ninja, and gixxer. That's all I knew when I started looking... :lol:


The 300 will do great, especially in the European market, where the limits were just raised for beginners. This is officially the most powerful bike that a beginner can get that has more features than anything else on the market.

OP, stop b**ching about how much it costs. If you're cheap and are complaining about the cost of buying a bike, buy a pregen. They're cheap and bullet proof. The price of the 250 increased in 2008 when it was remodeled. People complained. But the bike still sold like hot cakes.

I hope they both succeed in sales. A lot of Ninja owners generally knock the cbr 250 yet have never even ridden one. Its all about loyalty as Kawi folks go hard for their ninjas and honda folks go hard for their cbr's. I love them both but I think Kawasaki should have come out with a 400cc as the 300cc is just too close in engine size of the 250. I expect dealers won't be able to keep the 300s in stock. Hondas best bet would be to come out with the 400cc cbr or 500cc cbr or be in some trouble with the 250 cbr in the near future.

CBR' s are not really the answer (and the current 250 is an insult to the CBR title, it's a baby 'new' VFR at best, baby dullville at worst) something like a RVF 400 which was extremely cool little machine back in it's day with decent midrange & extreme agility should make a comeback.

sad thing for Honda is that the CBR is almost virtually the same for 2013.

as said before, best thing they can do is drop their price which to be fair is still TBD for their '13

CBR' s are not really the answer (and the current 250 is an insult to the CBR title, it's a baby 'new' VFR at best, baby dullville at worst) something like a RVF 400 which was extremely cool little machine back in it's day with decent midrange & extreme agility should make a comeback.

Insult to CBR title goes a little far. CBRs have always stood for lightweight sport bikes - VFRs have all turned into 500+ pound heavy weight sport tourers. VFRs all have V4 engines by the way.

With just light weight mufflers and wheels a CBR250 can get very close to 300 pounds wet, which is not possible for a Ninja without significant changes. Honda also makes CBR125 and CBR150 which are popular in racing classes around the world.

I have no doubt Kawasaki's decision to go with the 300 cc, features, and MSRP are all backed by what they feel is sound market intelligence. Sure, it's a competitive reaction but that's only natural when you're the only game in town for years and then in steps one of the other big 4 wanting a piece of the pie. Kawasaki had to expect that this would happen sooner or later.

What I'm more sure of is that this isn't a knee jerk or blind reaction from the folks at Kawasaki to Honda. Yes the MSRP is higher, however within the same segment companies can take different approaches to market positioning and thus, pricing.

Honda has positioned the CBR250R as the affordable yet still fun offering in this segment and it will obviously appeal to the more budget-conscientious buyers and those looking at fuel economy. Even when the CBR entered into the foray, the Ninja 250 was still regarded as the more sporty, performance oriented of the two. With the 300, Kawasaki has embraced that positioning and taken it to the next level.

The 300 isn't simply about Kawasaki's answer to the CBR250R. I believe it's much more than that. It's about Kawasaki setting the bar and daring other players like Yamaha, Suzuki, KTM, etc., to submit an answer to the 300.

I have no doubt Kawasaki's decision to go with the 300 cc, features, and MSRP are all backed by what they feel is sound market intelligence. Sure, it's a competitive reaction but that's only natural when you're the only game in town for years and then in steps one of the other big 4 wanting a piece of the pie.

What I'm more sure of is that this isn't a knee jerk or blind reaction from the folks at Kawasaki to Honda. Yes the MSRP is higher, however within the same segment companies can take different approaches to market positioning and thus, pricing.

Honda has positioned the CBR250R as the affordable yet still fun offering in this segment and it will obviously appeal to the more budget-conscientious buyers and those looking at fuel economy. Even when the CBR entered into the foray, the Ninja 250 was still regarded as the more sporty, performance oriented of the two. With the 300, Kawasaki has embraced that positioning and taken it to the next level.

The 300 isn't simply about Kawasaki's answer to the CBR250R. I believe it's much more than that. It's about Kawasaki setting the bar and daring other players like Yamaha, Suzuki, KTM, etc., to submit an answer to the 300.

:thumbup:

What we dont know is that the OP is actually working for kawasaki.. and gauging our interest in the bike by starting a crazy flaming thread with a ridiculous title

well played kawasaki. well played.

i own a cbr600rr, have a 250, have 2 fzrs and im still considering buying this 300. a good deal of people i know who have 250s want to sell and buy a 300 because fuel injection, the new electronics package, new gauges. yeah, its a nice bike, and even with just word of mouth, i think the 300 will be a hot item.

if honda re-styled their 250 to look better and ride a little more aggressively, we could have a really good smaller engine market here

Yes, on a Kawasaki forum that's true - and for people who are already familiar with sport bikes. Ask 10 random people on the street who makes motorcycles and all 10 will say Honda, you'd be lucky if even one said Kawasaki.

uhhh, i ride a green cbr. and the random people (RIDERS AND NON RIDERS) who approach me ask if i ride a ninja. this happens all the time, only other cbr owners will get my bike right.

uhhh, i ride a green cbr. and the random people (RIDERS AND NON RIDERS) who approach me ask if i ride a ninja. this happens all the time, only other cbr owners will get my bike right.

Do you find that surprising when your sample population is the people who approach a green colored motorcycle wanting to talk to the rider?

The 300 isn't simply about Kawasaki's answer to the CBR250R. I believe it's much more than that. It's about Kawasaki setting the bar and daring other players like Yamaha, Suzuki, KTM, etc., to submit an answer to the 300.

I'm not sure it's setting the bar "higher" but it is definitely positioning the Ninja 300 as a more distinct offering compared to the CBR250R. This generation of Ninja 300 shows they are two very different bikes now.

Customers can choose between a cheap and efficient sportbike or a more expensive and faster sportbike. I think the market has room for both, and I'm sure other manufacturers are watching pretty closely. They will probably wait and see how the Ninja 300 does before jumping in with either a CBR250R competitor or a Ninja 300 competitor.

Insult to CBR title goes a little far. CBRs have always stood for lightweight sport bikes - VFRs have all turned into 500+ pound heavy weight sport tourers. VFRs all have V4 engines by the way.

With just light weight mufflers and wheels a CBR250 can get very close to 300 pounds wet, which is not possible for a Ninja without significant changes. Honda also makes CBR125 and CBR150 which are popular in racing classes around the world.

125 race class is usually 2 stroke, RS125s are a great little race machine, I don't know of any 150 race class, but it's possible they're popular in southeast asia.

The current CBR 250 isn't an I4, every other CBR (bar the 125) is an I4 sports bike, the old MC19s & MC22s (and the older versions) were I4, high revving sports bikes, the 125 is a single but looks more like the rest of the CBR family, the 250 is the odd one out:

Lets play the bike paternity test...


The baby
http://static.zigwheels.com/media/content/2011/Mar/black_cbr250r_launch_560x420.jpg

The rest of the family

http://smrperformance.dotq.net/shop/image/data/honda_cbr600rr_2010_01.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hfq8SjbmUCE/UDLfAJ5-LiI/AAAAAAAABFc/lcHToc7KS3M/s640/honda+fireblade+cbr1000rr+..jpg

http://www.moto123.com/ArtImages/83902/2008-honda-cbr125r-i039.jpg

But momma was playing offside with this:eek:

http://static1.bathursthonda.com/img-data/new/photos/2012/honda/vfr1200/fa/sport/exteriorColors/2012_vfr1200fa_sport_bleu-tahitien-candy_032.jpg

Lets ask
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tPqUplEmW9g/Txe_ZhXVUpI/AAAAAAAAV0g/rbtSZS5Krqk/s1600/Jerry+Springer2.jpg

A bike is more then it's looks.

Yes, a CBR250R looks like a mini-VFR, but it's DNA is more CBR. CBRs have always been light weight sports bikes. VFRs have all exclusively had the V4 engine, and especially later morphed into sport tourers. The latest VFR even uses a shaft drive.

The CBR125R is a single cylinder four stroke on the market for 5 years.

The CBR150R is a single cylinder four stroke on the market for 10 years.

The few exceptions to the light weight CBR rule are the blackbird and hurricane. Every recent VFR within the last 10 years has been a heavy weight sports tourer over 500 pounds.

can't be bothered to read more than 3 posts so heres my thoughts after skimming the rest;

OP doesn't realize they are in the minority of motorcyclists, thinks they are center of world. is wrong.

If you mean it'll fail in the sense that all the squids and posers will buy one, I agree. It'll sell like crazy regardless.

I don't like CBRs...

/thread :p

this IS the scenario.........

how much a month for the Kawi over the Honda.......

12 bucks..........

I'll take the Ninja........

this IS the scenario.........

how much a month for the Kawi over the Honda.......

12 bucks..........

I'll take the Ninja........

Dude, forget 12 bucks, A Ninja 250 in India costs twice as much as the CBR 250r... It still sells...

CBR 250r - 2760$
Ninja 250r - 5520$

People still buy Ninjas... No doubt the CBR sells way better, but you can't beat the price.

Do you find that surprising when your sample population is the people who approach a green colored motorcycle wanting to talk to the rider?

whats your sample population. most people have heard of what a motorcycle is, and kawasaki has always marketed hard to the US. If i was to go out right now and ask a random person on the street to name a motorcycle, its likely the first response would be ninja, not honda

When I first started to look at motorcycles all I knew was that there were yamahas and ninjas

Lets play the bike paternity test...
The baby
http://static.zigwheels.com/media/content/2011/Mar/black_cbr250r_launch_560x420.jpg

The rest of the family
http://www.moto123.com/ArtImages/83902/2008-honda-cbr125r-i039.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6aw3qR0GF1qbwyip.gif

What we dont know is that the OP is actually working for kawasaki.. and gauging our interest in the bike by starting a crazy flaming thread with a ridiculous title

well played kawasaki. well played.

:rotflmao:

whats your sample population. most people have heard of what a motorcycle is, and kawasaki has always marketed hard to the US. If i was to go out right now and ask a random person on the street to name a motorcycle, its likely the first response would be ninja, not honda

I think you're wrong. Of course everyone on this forum is going to say they heard of Kawasaki first, that's probably a big reason why you are riding a Kawasaki now and is the whole point of marketing in general. But if we are really talking about what the general population knows about motorcycling, Honda is by far the Japanese brand with the most name recognition.

Just because you had posters on your wall of a Ninja doesn't mean anyone else did. Marketing is about understanding the whole demographic, not the slice you happen to see.

I'm going to test this

My money is on everyone at least knowing harley http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b276/seanvoight/most%20used%20pics/Facepalm.gif

trolls GTFO!

If you ask people that have never look twice at a motorcycle and have never wanted a motorcycle and are never going to buy a motorcycle. Thay probably have never heard of Kawasaki and they think Yamaha makes pianos. But no one cares about them. They are not going to purchas either a Honda or a Kawasaki.
But if you ask anyone that has taken any interest in motorcycles. They will know about Kawasaki or at least knows there name

If you ask people that have never look twice at a motorcycle and have never wanted a motorcycle and are never going to buy a motorcycle. Thay probably have never heard of Kawasaki and they think Yamaha makes pianos. But no one cares about them. They are not going to purchas either a Honda or a Kawasaki.
But if you ask anyone that has taken any interest in motorcycles. They will know about Kawasaki or at least knows there name

Companies marketing entry level beginner motorcycles care, because once they wake up and decide to buy one they will already have a company in mind. I'm very curious how many Honda motorcycle owners previously owned Civics or Accords. From my experience in the real world, there is a shocking amount of overlap and without Honda's passenger car popularity in this country, I bet they would be far far behind Kawasaki in terms of sales.

I drove a civic. Thing ran like a clock. Never needed anything. Then my parents sold it. My family has owned many civics and accords over the years, and I plan to look at them when it's time for me to buy a car.

But I ride a ninja ;)

Thread's kinda going around in circles here with all the anecdotal evidence and rebuttals with more anecdotal evidence...

Whatever the actual case might be, with all the resources available with a few keystrokes and mouse clicks, I find it shocking that anyone would be wiling to throw all that cash towards something without doing some research. Unless you're a squid... around here the only motorcycle that exists in the universe is the Gixxer 600.

Honda has only been making the 250 for two years. It is not even a player yet.

Have you ever seen a CBR 250? That thing is ugly. just ****ing ugly. And weirdly skinny too.
Although i do agree with the pricing part..Plus dealer fees, tax and everything a ninja 300 costs well over 8grand in my state.
I aint paying anything beyond 5.5k...with that price 30% more and you can get a zx6r already.

....they think Yamaha makes pianos.....

you made my day :D

You know, Yamaha makes all kinds of instruments. :lol:

Ya but the ridiculousness of this thread deserves it. Did you know Yamaha sold there motorcycle division

I did not actually.

I think it was in 2009. The family felt it was to big for them to manage. I will look for a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Motor_Company

Funny how they says "piano gives them inspiration for making sport bikes".

most idiots who dont know crap will say harley, Ask an idiot about honda and they'll think you're talking about cars, lawn mowers, or generators. The ninja is one of the most iconic sports bikes along with gsxrs, kawi and suzuki has made a name for themselves with those two sport bikes, when talking to my dads friends who dont know anything about mikes, i mention a sport bike and first thing they as is, like a ninja?

Have you ever seen a CBR 250? That thing is ugly. just ****ing ugly. And weirdly skinny too.
Although i do agree with the pricing part..Plus dealer fees, tax and everything a ninja 300 costs well over 8grand in my state.
I aint paying anything beyond 5.5k...with that price 30% more and you can get a zx6r already.

$8,000 for a Ninja 300 in Honolulu!? damn, and I thought I felt bad for people in California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Motor_Company

Funny how they says "piano gives them inspiration for making sport bikes".

Good read :thumbup:

I liked how Yamaha helped develop the engines in the Ford Taurus SHO in the 90's Normally, fords version of making a vehicle make more power has been to stuff an F150 engine in it :lol:

$8,000 for a Ninja 300 in Honolulu!? damn, and I thought I felt bad for people in California.

price quote was done by someone else on this forum.
I think I might be better off buying it in another state and ship it here for about $500
a 2012 was about 6k when I was thinking about getting one. Glad I didn't.

i think the 300 is hot as hell but the biggest problem i see with it (which is also the reason i won't be buying one) is it is no longer eligible for 250 race classes.
i know that this might be minority sales but it is still a big number.
here in aus we have a 250 production class with 3 eligible bikes, the ninja 250, the meggeli 250 and the cbr 250. since this class was introuduced to run with the australian super bikes the ninja sales took off (can't remember the figure) because not only did people want them to race but as the saying goes "win on sunday, sell on monday"
so with the ninja no longer able to compeate i can see sales falling off.
it won't fail but i think it might end up being a bit of a miss calculation on their part.

i think the 300 is hot as hell but the biggest problem i see with it (which is also the reason i won't be buying one) is it is no longer eligible for 250 race classes.


i seriously doubt kawasaki didn't have a plan for this.

i seriously doubt kawasaki didn't have a plan for this.

i hope so but i am yet to see any evidence of it. the rules can be changed. for eg the 675 daytona can race in the 600 classes but if they don't change the rule to include it, it will suck.

I would love Yamaha to get into this. That R4 would be nice.

My guess there is such a small percentage of Ninja's racing, I don't think Kawasaki would even consider that as a factor..............

When you say Ninja around my parts most people think of 2 things. A guy in a black costume with a sword and one of "dem der crotch rockets" and then the old the old farmer goes back to cuttin' hay.

My area's knowledge of bikes is tainted by the 100+ sport bikes that ride (or race depending on who you ask) through local roads every weekend there is good weather. To the average person, they all are crotch rockets first and if you ask them what kind... they say they all are ninjas or they look at me funny.

My guess there is such a small percentage of Ninja's racing, I don't think Kawasaki would even consider that as a factor..............

ok so just did a bir of research

first half of 2012 there where 1257 nija 250's sold in aus
since the 250 class was introduced ninja sales increased (on average) 15.4% per yer
the 5 years previous to its introduction sales increased (on average) 5.2% per year
there are 21 riders in the asbk (national series) on ninjas and most have 2 bikes

qld and has a ninja 250 series and has around 20 riders (can't find exact numbers)
wa also has a ninja 250 series which is smaller with only 14 riders.
tas has 2 r/r clubs
wa has 2 r/r clubs
nt has 2r/r clubs (maybe more but i don't know of any more
qld has 4 r/r clubs
nsw has 5 r/r clubs
sa has 6 r/r clubs
vic has 6 r/r clubs

it would be a low guess to say that each club has at least 1 ninja 250 (there are 4 between 2 clubs here in tas where road racing is on of the smallest forms of racing (particapant based)
so froom those numbers alone

so that is AT LEAST 103 bikes which is 8.19% of sales which comes really close to fitting perfectly.
i stick by a previous comment, racers are a minority but that is still close to 10% of sales. that in my book is still a big hit in sales
also might be worth noting that the ninja has been the biggest selling 250 here in aus for a LONG time.
i also know that this is only 1 country and other places might be different.
i still think the 300 will be a big seller but i think that a whole new 250 would be better (here) as long as it still had that sexxy body on it.

When you say Ninja around my parts most people think of 2 things. A guy in a black costume with a sword and one of "dem der crotch rockets" and then the old the old farmer goes back to cuttin' hay.

My area's knowledge of bikes is tainted by the 100+ sport bikes that ride (or race depending on who you ask) through local roads every weekend there is good weather. To the average person, they all are crotch rockets first and if you ask them what kind... they say they all are ninjas or they look at me funny.

its either a cruiser or ninja around here too.

who ever came up with the ninja brand is a genius.

I think if you looked at worldwide sales, the % would drop quite a bit. Add in the (most likely) sales increase from the redesign, that % would be even smaller.

You have to take into consideration the the little bikes are not real money makers for the factories, they are basically for building brand loyalty. Then flip new riders onto the bigger models.

Aside from the power increase, I think the biggest offering the 300 has is the digital gauges, FI, and larger-CC styling. Everything the people wanted on the 500 in a bigger package.

Perhaps Kawasaki looked at the cost of putting these on the 250, saw it would make it X number of dollars more than the CBR250 and said "let's try something else."

You have to take into consideration the the little bikes are not real money makers for the factories, they are basically for building brand loyalty. Then flip new riders onto the bigger models.

I'm not as sure of this. The thinking has always been, design them to be profitable in year one, amortize the tooling by year 5, and then there is a surprising amount of profit for the next 5 or more years with almost no R&D or other investment. There might be less profit by segment where they do need to redesign every 2 or 3 years if they want to sell any bikes at all.

I think if you looked at worldwide sales, the % would drop quite a bit. Add in the (most likely) sales increase from the redesign, that % would be even smaller.

You have to take into consideration the the little bikes are not real money makers for the factories, they are basically for building brand loyalty. Then flip new riders onto the bigger models.

compleatly agree that they are used for creating brand loyalty for when people upgrade to bigger bikes but i think the are a big money maker because acording to the same reference kawasaki sold 4882 bikes in the same time period. that 25% of their total sales.

i personally think a large conrtibutor to this is also with fuel prices constantly rising and new laws that have made it stupid hard to get a car licence young people are just getting bikes instead. we also have whats called the "L.A.M.S." (learner aproved motorcycle scheme) rule for bikes here which restricts what bikes people can ride on their learner and provisional licence. the lams scheme restricts people to a 250 with the exception of the rgv250, rs250 and other race replica 2 stroke 250's anthing over that has to be aproved by the government. if they dont then sales will take a Huge dive dive here to almost nothing... man i hope not just.

i am agreeing that its a great little thing but i think it might be harder for it here in aus compared to other bikes.

i also agree that without these rules in other countries that this will massively change the % world wide but still its a big hole. also

The 300 will succeed; for the $, it's a great piece of machinery. It's a great improvement and obviously targets the buyer who wants the sportbike experience. It takes EFI (finally) and many of the most common Ninjette mods and builds them into the as-delivered bike.

Honda's entry is obviously tailored at the urban rider who is doing *some* highway miles but more downtown, suburban, or other not-interstate riding.

Thing is, in those environments, if the buyer isn't made insecure by a scooter, their PCX150 is even better.

I popped over to Honda's site and noted that 2013 model year is TBD. Should be interesting to see how everything lines up $ to $.

When I first started to look at motorcycles all I knew was that there were yamahas and ninjas

the only thing i knew was that hondas were red, yamahas were blue, kawasakis were green, and didnt know suzuki existed. i had to have a green bike so my choice was obvious

It takes EFI (finally) and many of the most common Ninjette mods and builds them into the as-delivered bike.



What? Who is adding slipper clutches, webbed wheels, supersport fairings, ugly quiet exhausts and boring the engine? :p

I understand this is an online forum full of people who spend an disproportionate amount of time online, but you guys need to take a step back into the real world about how most people buy a motorcycle. Not many people will put the time in to research which brand offers the best package or what a slipper clutch is or the difference between a 250 or a 300. The fact is most people in the real world have never heard of Kawasaki, and a lot of people just default to buying Honda because many people just come from Accords and Civics and have brand loyalty baked in.

Also many people buy based purely on price especially for a starter bike. The CBR250 is already 500 cheaper then the 2012 250, and now it's 700 cheaper. There is a difference between improving a bike in every shape and being competitive in the marketplace. The 2013 Ninja 300 is a better package then the CBR, but it remains to be seen whether increasing the price and adding new features are what most people are looking for in the small displacement motorcycle market, and whether it's enough to pull people away from Honda in terms of brand loyalty.

:eek:NOT!!!
I've seen like 2 250CBR's on the streets of Charlotte. I'm out a lot. The two dealers near me don't seem to have a lot in stock and talking to the floor guys their not selling that many. The Concord location had a USED 250CBR on the floor....

I also note that the 250R is still listed on the product line up...

It will be interesting to see how all this plays out... but one thing is definately certain...

Kawasaki will still be selling a bunch of small bikes...

That's utter bollox, Kawasaki is one of the big 4 which everyone with even a passing interest in bikes know.
They've got a real advantage by making all their sports bikes available in kawasaki lime green, it's immediately recognisable.

Many parts of the world have restrictions for new riders (pretty much everywhere except the USA). Europe is standardising at no more than 35kW (about 46bhp) Honda's 250 is about half that, most beginners go for the highest powered machine legally allowed, I was predicting a 45bhp, 400 from one of the big 4 to be announced.

Kawasaki is also one of the biggest companies in the world, they've made everything from sections of the International Space Station, to nuclear power plants, attack helicopters to bullet trains & jet engines, submarines & the biggest selling bike worldwide.

If I was starting over & had the choice between the ninja 250 (08) & the CBR 250 it would be no contest, ninja 250, in a choice between the ninja 250 & 300 I'd go for the 300.

The CBR 250 has it's niche, but it's a city commuter only, it does it very well, but so does a dullville.

And because when you walk into the Honda Dealer you immediately learn about Kawasaki... and OH BABY, that "Black" Ninja just Looks Fast (right Jiggles?)

uhhh, i ride a green cbr. and the random people (RIDERS AND NON RIDERS) who approach me ask if i ride a ninja. this happens all the time, only other cbr owners will get my bike right.

Or NINJA rider ;)

And because when you walk into the Honda Dealer you immediately learn about Kawasaki... and OH BABY, that "Black" Ninja just Looks Fast (right Jiggles?)

Idk of any dealer that sells just hondas

and yes

Dude, forget 12 bucks, A Ninja 250 in India costs twice as much as the CBR 250r... It still sells...

CBR 250r - 2760$
Ninja 250r - 5520$

People still buy Ninjas... No doubt the CBR sells way better, but you can't beat the price.

Someone is getting rich!:mad:
Glad I don't live in India:)
Hey, maybe I ought to black market my bike in India:D

Have you ever seen a CBR 250? That thing is ugly. just ****ing ugly. And weirdly skinny too.
Although i do agree with the pricing part..Plus dealer fees, tax and everything a ninja 300 costs well over 8grand in my state.
I aint paying anything beyond 5.5k...with that price 30% more and you can get a zx6r already.

And I'm so glad I don't live in the Aloha State... Eight big ones???? WOOW:eek:

i think the 300 is hot as hell but the biggest problem i see with it (which is also the reason i won't be buying one) is it is no longer eligible for 250 race classes.
i know that this might be minority sales but it is still a big number.
here in aus we have a 250 production class with 3 eligible bikes, the ninja 250, the meggeli 250 and the cbr 250. since this class was introuduced to run with the australian super bikes the ninja sales took off (can't remember the figure) because not only did people want them to race but as the saying goes "win on sunday, sell on monday"
so with the ninja no longer able to compeate i can see sales falling off.
it won't fail but i think it might end up being a bit of a miss calculation on their part.

And that might be why they kept the 250 in the lineup????;)

Aside from the power increase, I think the biggest offering the 300 has is the digital gauges, FI, and larger-CC styling. Everything the people wanted on the 500 in a bigger package.

Perhaps Kawasaki looked at the cost of putting these on the 250, saw it would make it X number of dollars more than the CBR250 and said "let's try something else."

:thumbup:you might have hit the nail on the head
and we'll keep the 250r for the price concious and the racers....:wink:

Best thing Honda could right now is invest in kawasaki, lol.

lol. I would do it!

And that might be why they kept the 250 in the lineup????;)

not here

I gotta say i knew of ninjas well before i ever heard of honda bikes well besides dirt bikes and when i went to look for a bike i looke at the honda and it was ugly as haha i wanted the aprillia or ninja and the ninja for the proce got me hooked

:thumbup:you might have hit the nail on the head
and we'll keep the 250r for the price concious and the racers....:wink:

Or we won't. The 2013 lineup isn't showing a 250....

DUDE! have you seen how sexy it is!! first time buyers always like looks,
300 > honda cbr250r

This,

The main determining factor for me to consider ninja over cbr was looks, next was revs, i'm a high rev junkie and since the ninja can be made to limit at just over 14k it made me feel happy inside.

But seriously money was a factor in my decision and i could not bring myself to ride that ugly CBR250... i'm better than that.

I see what you are getting at with price but it really isn't that big of a jump and you get a sweet as bike for the price tag. I heard honda is going to charge and extra $500 just for their Repsol paint job for the 2013's but maybe the paint makes it go faster :D

I rode a Ninja 250R for two years and loved it. I sold it last year because I didn't have the free time to really go riding on the weekends, but that will change next spring, so I'm planning to get back into motorcycling then. Of course I was already thinking about which motorcycle I should get. Although I liked the 250R, I'd prefer a bit more power just, so I considered the ER-6n (awesome looking naked bike, I've gotta say!). I read about the Ninja 300 a few days ago and I got really excited. It looks awesome, has a much-needed dashboard upgrade, more power, and the added safety features (ABS and slipper clutch) are nice.

I wish it were a bit lighter, though. If Kawasaki were to aggressively do some weight-loss engineering, they could probably easily get under 150 kg. The KTM Duke 690 weighs 149.5 kg (although without fuel), for comparison. Anyone know why the 250R and the new 300 aren't particularly light-weight? Would it cost so much more to use lighter materials?

Anyway, I think the new Ninja 300 will do well. The new features make it the supreme small-capacity motorcycle on the market, but Kawasaki will need to be sensitive with the pricing.

I rode a Ninja 250R for two years and loved it. I sold it last year because I didn't have the free time to really go riding on the weekends, but that will change next spring, so I'm planning to get back into motorcycling then. Of course I was already thinking about which motorcycle I should get. Although I liked the 250R, I'd prefer a bit more power just, so I considered the ER-6n (awesome looking naked bike, I've gotta say!). I read about the Ninja 300 a few days ago and I got really excited. It looks awesome, has a much-needed dashboard upgrade, more power, and the added safety features (ABS and slipper clutch) are nice.

I wish it were a bit lighter, though. If Kawasaki were to aggressively do some weight-loss engineering, they could probably easily get under 150 kg. The KTM Duke 690 weighs 149.5 kg (although without fuel), for comparison. Anyone know why the 250R and the new 300 aren't particularly light-weight? Would it cost so much more to use lighter materials?

Anyway, I think the new Ninja 300 will do well. The new features make it the supreme small-capacity motorcycle on the market, but Kawasaki will need to be sensitive with the pricing.

Its a steel vs aluminum thing..... Its amazing how much the difference makes.

Yep. IDK why we didn't get the fuel injected Ninja 250. Biggest fail in the first place.


Also I remember when I didn't know what Kawasaki was. My friend got a Brute Force, told me it was Kawasaki, great company, etc etc. and he laughed at me b/c I've never heard of them :p

Regardless, you had still heard of "Ninja." In some uninformed circles, it was almost a generic term for "sportbike." Like Kleenex for tissue, Q-tip for cotton swab, and Vaseline for petroleum jelly.

compleatly agree that they are used for creating brand loyalty for when people upgrade to bigger bikes but i think the are a big money maker because acording to the same reference kawasaki sold 4882 bikes in the same time period. that 25% of their total sales.

i personally think a large conrtibutor to this is also with fuel prices constantly rising and new laws that have made it stupid hard to get a car licence young people are just getting bikes instead. we also have whats called the "L.A.M.S." (learner aproved motorcycle scheme) rule for bikes here which restricts what bikes people can ride on their learner and provisional licence. the lams scheme restricts people to a 250 with the exception of the rgv250, rs250 and other race replica 2 stroke 250's anthing over that has to be aproved by the government. if they dont then sales will take a Huge dive dive here to almost nothing... man i hope not just.

i am agreeing that its a great little thing but i think it might be harder for it here in aus compared to other bikes.

i also agree that without these rules in other countries that this will massively change the % world wide but still its a big hole. also
The AUS Ninja 300 promo videos specifically say that it complies with "new" LAMS rules. Ride on!

I still don't get all you people who think the 250cc class disparity is an issue for the 300. The Megelli was never a serious entrant and the class has only included the CBR for the last year where before it may as well have been "the Ninja class." The class is not set in stone and it will just become the 300cc and under class. Simple.

The 600cc class wasn't a problem for the 636 for years until some clubs started getting a little picky and Kawi started to make two models (600 and 636) and eventually only offered 600. The 636 is back, so obviously Kawasaki doesn't mind making two models like in some past years or lobbying them to allow it anyway like in years before that.

... and the 636 looks like it's 10 years ahead of the other Japanese 600s - but wow, the way they presented it: What a disaster.
...

I didn't watch the event. Did something "disastrous" happen?

I agree that the 300 is worth it to me because I know how much aftermarket parts cost on a bike or a car. But most buyers won't have a clue to the difference between the cbr250 and 300, except for the price. Just like the people that buy civics, toyotas, etc. There are some enthusiast that know a lot about civics but most of the buyers know little.

Regardless of whether or not they had a clue, they will get a clue before dropping over $4K. It's common sense to research what you are buying as well as alternatives.

how the hell has no one told you this yet...

Its the 'NINJA' name that sells first of all. its been around 30 or so years now and has the cool factor, plain and simple.

Then you look at the thing and its slaps the **** out of the CBR in the looks department. Even the current gen is better looking than the CBR.

Then all the noobies wanna go vroom vroom and beat their buddies in the Civics and Corollas, can't do that on the CBR.

This is an evolution for Kawi in the small cc segment.



and Jiggles in what dimension is 21 hp vs 31 hp a 50% increase??? Just off the top of my head its about 30%, which is still significant

Hey, genius: 30 is a 50% increase from 20. ;) 20 is 2/3rds of 30, but that's not that same calculation at all.
50% of 20 is 10; 20 + 10 = 30.

To be exact:
50% of 21 is 10.5; 21 + 10.5 = 31.5

Hey, genius: 30 is a 50% increase from 20. ;) 20 is 2/3rds of 30, but that's not that same calculation at all.
50% of 20 is 10; 20 + 10 = 30.

To be exact:
50% of 21 is 10.5; 21 + 10.5 = 31.5

This confirms I suck at math...just realized now that you laid it out like that...
If it was double the HP it would be a 100% increase...got it.

Yes, on a Kawasaki forum that's true - and for people who are already familiar with sport bikes. Ask 10 random people on the street who makes motorcycles and all 10 will say Honda, you'd be lucky if even one said Kawasaki.

FALSE. I don't even need to back up that with stats or note it as opinion because enough would agree that you'd simply have to be delusional to think that. You'd have better odds with scratch-off tickets. "Ninja" occupies an area of the public consciousness that Honda or Yamaha has no answer to. If you really think "R#" or "CBR#" equals "Ninja" in mind space, consider how often Kawasaki Ninja is used without a specific designation of which Ninja it really is. Could you really discuss an R6 or R1 without the number? CBR lands right in between. It's just too awkward and less-known to discuss like that outside of sportbike circles, and it doesn't even apply to their full line of sportbikes (VFRs). It's a class name beyond displacement class: It's marketing genius and it's something cellphone manufacturers are finally figuring out. Note the variety of "Samsung Galaxy" phones and how all Apple phones are "iPhone" phones. What works for Apple and Samsung... now we have HTC doing the same thing with "HTC one." CBR is closer to their equivalent of "ZX" than it is to "Ninja."

I didn't watch the event. Did something "disastrous" happen?



Regardless of whether or not they had a clue, they will get a clue before dropping over $4K. It's common sense to research what you are buying as well as alternatives.



Hey, genius: 30 is a 50% increase from 20. ;) 20 is 2/3rds of 30, but that's not that same calculation at all.
50% of 20 is 10; 20 + 10 = 30.

To be exact:
50% of 21 is 10.5; 21 + 10.5 = 31.5

Heh heh. Word problems suck, but the key word was "increase," which set the point of reference to 21. ;)

For someone not to know Kawasaki or what a bike named Ninja is, it has to be an alien or something else out of this planet.
I have wanted (or lusted for) a Ninja since I was a kid back in the 80's-90's. But the thing about it is that I am from Brazil and Kawasaki didn't start selling Ninjas here until 2009. Before that there wasn't even a pregen here and I already wanted one, just from the name and the very few imported bigger Ninjas around. And there wasn't even internet back then. So, really, if you don't know Kawasaki, you are a alienated person (if that word makes sense in English)
I saw a ZX9R in an accident/road rage video out of Brazil. Was it a gray-market import? They haven't made those in a very long time.

I saw a ZX9R in an accident/road rage video out of Brazil. Was it a gray-market import? They haven't made those in a very long time.

There are a few of those around here... they are selling a used one for about the same price as a brand new 250r

FALSE. I don't even need to back up that with stats or note it as opinion because enough would agree that you'd simply have to be delusional to think that. You'd have better odds with scratch-off tickets. "Ninja" occupies an area of the public consciousness that Honda or Yamaha has no answer to. If you really think "R#" or "CBR#" equals "Ninja" in mind space, consider how often Kawasaki Ninja is used without a specific designation of which Ninja it really is. Could you really discuss an R6 or R1 without the number? CBR lands right in between. It's just too awkward and less-known to discuss like that outside of sportbike circles, and it doesn't even apply to their full line of sportbikes (VFRs). It's a class name beyond displacement class: It's marketing genius and it's something cellphone manufacturers are finally figuring out. Note the variety of "Samsung Galaxy" phones and how all Apple phones are "iPhone" phones. What works for Apple and Samsung... now we have HTC doing the same thing with "HTC one." CBR is closer to their equivalent of "ZX" than it is to "Ninja."

I think you're the first person to actually think that the fact that Kawasaki names 10 different bikes across the sport and supersport categories "Ninja" is actually a good marketing idea.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that among people not registered to a Kawasaki forum, Kawasaki has the lowest name recognition and the lowest sales among the "big 4" Japanese manufacturers to the general public.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Kawasaki makes the worst bikes out of the 4 and doesn't deserve more sales. I've been on the latest generation ZX6R and it was a phenomenal street bike with exceptional forks, brakes, transmission and engine - couldn't find a fault unlike the GSXR and R6 equivalents (but I still think between the CBR600 vs last generation ZX6R the CBR600 is a better street bike, ZX6R better track bike). If quality actually made a difference I think Kawasaki would have #1 sales, but the fact is they don't sell as much as the other four. That's just reality (http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012/jama-june-motorcycle-sales-down-0-9-percent)

I think you're the first person to actually think that the fact that Kawasaki names 10 different bikes across the sport and supersport categories "Ninja" is actually a good marketing idea.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that among people not registered to a Kawasaki forum, Kawasaki has the lowest name recognition ... among the "big 4" Japanese manufacturers to the general public.
...

Except that's absolutely NOT true. Take a nondescript drawing of a generic sportbike with no branding and ask 10 people who don't even ride to identify the unidentifiable bike without even mentioning Japan. Less than half of the people with a relevant answer ("I don't know" or "Toyota" wouldn't count) would fail to mention "Kawasaki," "Ninja," "Ninja-like," "something like a Ninja," etc. Say what you will about their sales, but Kawasaki/Ninja has THAT MUCH of the public mindset when it comes to sportbikes. Half of the people responding will think that Honda and Suzuki only make cars. :rolleyes:

I didn't watch the event. Did something "disastrous" happen?

The event was incredibly boring at the same time being corny, poorly paced, and lacked any kind of excitement factor. It really did nothing to build the Kawasaki brand or make a lasting impression in my mind. I only got excited after I looked into the ZX6R afterwords that it seems to be a really great package.

Except that's absolutely NOT true. Take a nondescript drawing of a generic sportbike with no branding and ask 10 people who don't even ride to identify the unidentifiable bike. Less than half would fail to mention "Kawasaki," "Ninja," "Ninja-like," "something like a Ninja," etc. Say what you will about their sales, but Kawasaki has THAT MUCH of the public mindset when it comes to sportbikes. Half the people responding will think that Honda and Suzuki only make cars. :rolleyes:

Simply wrong, but we'll have to agree to disagree. IMO If they did have that kind of name recognition they wouldn't have such low sales relative to the competition. You really ask 10 random people not associated with a Kawasaki forum they will say Honda.

We'll agree to disagree here.

Edit: And about Suzuki making cars, you might want to check with the general public if they even know Suzuku makes cars - look at their car sales numbers in North America :eek:

Simply wrong, but we'll have to agree to disagree. IMO If they did have that kind of name recognition they wouldn't have such low sales relative to the competition. You really ask 10 random people not associated with a Kawasaki forum they will say Honda.

We'll agree to disagree here.
I'll do more than disagree. If I had money, I would put money on it. Instead, I will print up an image from Sportbike Funnies and live-stream over Looxcie Live as I ask complete strangers if you don't believe me.

Edit: And about Suzuki making cars, you might want to check with the general public if they even know Suzuku makes cars - look at their car sales numbers in North America :eek:
Doesn't change the fact that they advertise and most everyone has heard them. MAC trucks and Peterbuilts have a similarly low sales percentage too, but we generally know what they are. The real-world disconnect between sales and recognition only proves my point elsewhere. FWIW, I edited my last post too.

What? Who is adding slipper clutches, webbed wheels, supersport fairings, ugly quiet exhausts and boring the engine? :p

Thought this new motor got Stroked?

I'll do more than disagree. If I had money, I would put money on it. Instead, I will print up an image from Sportbike Funnies and live-stream over Looxcie Live as I ask complete strangers if you don't believe me.

It would be interesting to see but of course it wouldn't count as data.

Doesn't change the fact that they advertise and most everyone has heard them. MAC trucks and Peterbuilts have a similarly low sales percentage too, but we generally know what they are. The real-world disconnect between sales and recognition only proves my point elsewhere. FWIW, I edited my last post too.

That's not a great example because the general public doesn't buy trucks. Just like the 747 is one of the most famous airplanes doesn't say anything about it's sales numbers. The disconnect between brand recognition and sales is relatively huge in commercial business to business products like that compared with a customer product like a motorcycle. Can you think of a single consumer product which has huge public mind share but lower sales numbers? It simply doesn't happen, not with Kleenex, not with dish detergent, not with shoes, not with clothes and not with motorcycles.

Ever since I got into motorcycles I nearly forgot Suzuki made cars.

Someone go to a mall Wth a camera and ask people some questions to shut this guy up ;)

This fail thread is a fail. Everyone has an opinion so that's nice to know.

Can you think of a single consumer product which has huge public mind share but lower sales numbers?

BlackBerry

Public brand recognition doesn't exactly translate into sales just by itself. There are other aspects of the marketing mix that manufacturers have to satisfy to enjoy sales success.

Xerox maybe.

You never hear anyone say "Be right back, I need to HP some copies"

but HP is failing hard right now. probably a bad example

You really think blackberry has more public mindset in 2012 then either Apple or Android? Maybe 6 years ago, but not today. If you ask people to name a smart phone today blackberry would be a distant third among brands recognized. Blackberry had the business market locked down a while ago but was never at the level Apple or Android is today with the general public.

I'm not sure why you guys are fighting so hard and are so emotionally invested in the idea that Kawasaki has the lead in "public perception". It's not like having public perception implies anything when it comes to product quality or anything. If anything, a company with lower public perception has to try harder to differentiate itself beyond just the brand name recognition, which Kawasaki is doing - it's latest ZX6R is far far more advanced then any of it's rivals at this point. Same with the new 300.

Despite losing ground to competitors, BlackBerry is still one of the most recognized global brands. You asked about consumer products that had a huge brand awareness not necessarily who had the most. History is full of examples of brands which enjoyed massive public recognition yet their products failed due to a multitude of factors.

I see you're from Canada so you probably have a skewed view of the blackberry brand. It was never on the same level with customers as Apple or Android is today in customer's minds. Business yes, general public no.

If history is full of them you should be able to name a few. If the best example you can come up with is Blackberry then I say that's an argument in my favor.

Besides, I still don't get why you guys care so much, for all the reasons I mentioned before, having a strong brand doesn't mean anything when it comes to actual products, so again, why do you care that Kawasaki is a distant fourth in sales and brand among the big 4?

Put up or shut up.

Post the numbers, or stop the crap.

This website is for fans of kawis and fans of ninjettes. If you're here to bash that, this doesn't make you an informed and articulate consumer. It makes you come off as a bit of a tool who doesn't understand his audience.

You're jumping to assumptions based on what little demographic info you know of me. I'm an Android user btw.

Blockbuster, Dell, Kodak, GM, Ford, Nokia, Sears, Sony, Nintendo, Yahoo, Toys "R" Us, Best Buy, Microsoft (pretty much any product other than its software in its monopolized market). All hugely recognizable brands that have struggled in the past or currently.

Put up or shut up.

Post the numbers, or stop the crap.

This website is for fans of kawis and fans of ninjettes. If you're here to bash that, this doesn't make you an informed and articulate consumer. It makes you come off as a bit of a tool who doesn't understand his audience.

honestly I'm :confused: why you guys think I'm bashing anything? I said repeatedly that in my opinion having ridden all 600 supersports Kawasaki has the highest quality among the big 4. I already posted the latest numbers which show Kawasaki is 4th in production among the big 4:

http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012/jama-june-motorcycle-sales-down-0-9-percent

I will drop it since it seems this has struck a nerve with people, but honestly I'm not saying anything bad about Kawasaki or their brand, I think they make great bikes and I've said it repeatedly in this thread.

that in my opinion

That's exactly the point. Check the sig

To be clear my opinion is regarding quality, the facts are the numbers which I posted which aren't really up for debate.

Anyway I think it's kind of funny the contrast between this community and something like the Ducati community. On the Ducati forum, everyone loves the fact that Ducati has relatively small production numbers and is more exclusive in terms of ownership. They love that not everybody rides a Ducati.

On this forum, it seems everybody wants the Ninja to be the most popular bike in the world and are actually offended when you imply it might not be.

All I know is, when I see a ZX-6R riding down the street, I figure that guy is more of a motorcycle connoisseur then the guy riding an R6 or GSXR600, because the ZX beats those two bikes hands down in my opinion.

Nuff said. :thumbup: I'm seeing similar numbers to what you've posted, which does show Kawi as the smallest producer in Japan. But Suzuki isn't far ahead many months, and the July exports from Japan have Kawi ahead by a bit (http://www.jama-english.jp/statistics/production_export/2012/120831.html). That said, those JAMA numbers look like they don't include units that are built outside of Japan, so top sellers like the ninja 250 and cbr 250 both built in Thailand aren't in there anyway. I think that the best numbers for the US sales would probably come from the MIC, but they don't publish them publicly or freely, so your speculation is as good as mine or anyone else's.

It would be interesting to see but of course it wouldn't count as data.



That's not a great example because the general public doesn't buy trucks. Just like the 747 is one of the most famous airplanes doesn't say anything about it's sales numbers. The disconnect between brand recognition and sales is relatively huge in commercial business to business products like that compared with a customer product like a motorcycle. Can you think of a single consumer product which has huge public mind share but lower sales numbers? It simply doesn't happen, not with Kleenex, not with dish detergent, not with shoes, not with clothes and not with motorcycles.
The general public doesn't buy motorcycles but the general public is aware of what a "Ninja motorcycle" is and most of them know that it is actually a "Kawasaki Ninja." That said, the pervasiveness of Kawi's brand is why we have knock-off names like "Katana" from Suzuki directly taking aim at "Ninja." Even though "Hayabusa" from Suzuki is taking aim at the Honda Super Blackbird and Nighthawk bikes, none would likely carry a name like that if it weren't for "Ninja."

I don't see Kawasaki attempting to change the Concours 14 to "PlatinumRotor" to compete with the Honda GoldWing's domination of the touring bike segment presence of mind. I don't see Honda calling their VFR1200 the "Honda Shinobi R1200XGS" to aim at the Suzuki Hyabusa GSX1300R. What I see is a market trying to duplicate the presence of mind Kawasaki and their "Ninja" brand have.

Besides, I still don't get why you guys care so much, for all the reasons I mentioned before, having a strong brand doesn't mean anything when it comes to actual products, so again, why do you care that Kawasaki is a distant fourth in sales and brand among the big 4?
And now we come FULL CIRCLE. :rolleyes: No one is getting defensive of Kawasaki. We're just saying that you are delusional and dead wrong if you think Kawasaki doesn't have the recognition to register on a sampling of ten sportbikers. Not only do we believe that the brand recognition is disconnected from sales, but we believe that the relationship in this case is EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you believe it to be: among Japanese sportbike brands, Kawasaki has MORE awareness in the general public despite lower sales. I never gave two craps about your sales claims, only the ridiculous notions that people would ID Honda and Yamaha and Suzuki first ten of ten times when, in reality, it would be closer to 6+ for Kawasaki/Ninja, and the remainder divided by Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha.

I'm willing to prove it as soon as I get my replacement earhook for my Looxcie.

All I know is, when I see a ZX-6R riding down the street, I figure that guy is more of a motorcycle connoisseur then the guy riding an R6 or GSXR600, because the ZX beats those two bikes hands down in my opinion.

Well the guy on the gixxer is clearly a squid and the guy on the R6 is a n00b on his first bike, the zx6r guy is probably a pro AMA racer :Twofinger:

Well the guy on the gixxer is clearly a squid and the guy on the R6 is a n00b on his first bike, the zx6r guy is probably a pro AMA racer :Twofinger:

Unless it's Kevin2109, then all bets are off. :p

Unless it's Kevin2109, then all bets are off. :p

I beg to differ Alex

:) I love the mention function. :thumbup:

Unless it's Kevin2109, then all bets are off. :p

Did you not hear? Kevin (dragged? drug? drugged?) drugged :thumbup: knee before hitler on GMR

xQ5ovBq7YR8

i disagree!!!!

I dont think the 300 will fail but I dont think it'll develop the cult the ninjette has. At this early point..it has no position, no real reason to exist. It appears that it will do more than the 250's....but still nowhere near what a 600 is. A little faster, maybe a bit more MPG, possibly handle better ( in the hands of a racer) but I really dont get what Kawa is thinking. Honda has a nice 250 and we'll still have the ninjette and that little suzuki ( do they still make that?) so it's not the only choice as a pure entry level bike,,,in fact...it's not entry level anymore. I'm just guessing but...I dont imagine it'll perform with any 600.
Really...outside of us on this board....whio's gonna buy these ?
Alex....did you write them a letter telling them we wanted 300's or something sneaky like that ?

^ wut :confused:

I dont think the 300 will fail but I dont think it'll develop the cult the ninjette has. At this early point..it has no position, no real reason to exist. It appears that it will do more than the 250's....but still nowhere near what a 600 is. A little faster, maybe a bit more MPG, possibly handle better ( in the hands of a racer) but I really dont get what Kawa is thinking. Honda has a nice 250 and we'll still have the ninjette and that little suzuki ( do they still make that?) so it's not the only choice as a pure entry level bike,,,in fact...it's not entry level anymore. I'm just guessing but...I dont imagine it'll perform with any 600.
Really...outside of us on this board....whio's gonna buy these ?
Alex....did you write them a letter telling them we wanted 300's or something sneaky like that ?

Uhh, it has every reason the 250 had to exist and then some.

Fail? How. I'll bet Kawi sells every one that they import to the US. That would be a success.

Now, someone mentioned the beloved ER-6N earlier. I have one, I love it, it's better than all of your bikes (unless you have a Z1000 or a Ducati Monster.) This is undisputed, factual, absolute truth. However, the ER-6N was a failure in the US market. How do I know this? I bought my 2009 ER brand spanking new in 2011... for less than the price of a Ninja 300. When they have a bike leftover for 2 years and need to unload them cheap... failure.

All that said, if I were bike shopping with the same criteria I had back in 2008 (When I bought my 250r) I would go buy a CBR. It's cheaper (criteria 1), better on gas (criteria 2) and comfortable and capable enough to ride (criteria 3). When I bought the 250R for $3,600 there was nothing to compare to it. The Rebel and Nighthawk were crap, the only real small displacement bike worth owning was a Ninja 250, in my opinion. And at that price, and driving a car that got 16-17 MPG on 93 octane, it cost less to pay for the bike than put gas in the car.

The CBR certainly hasn't tossed the Ninjette off the top of the hill, but it certainly smacked Kawi around a bit. If Kawi had released a FI 250 here for the same price as the carbed one, it would have been a slam dunk. They left the small displacement door wide open for a long time, and Honda certainly stepped in hard.

Learned something about the CBR250 today while chatting with the salesguy selling me my new 300. The CBR may be cheaper on Day 0, but the first service is early, and it's $500 as they do have a required valve check, compared to the $150ish service for the Ninjette, which doesn't require a valve check until 7500 miles.

Now, someone mentioned the beloved ER-6N earlier. I have one, I love it, it's better than all of your bikes (unless you have a Z1000 or a Ducati Monster.) This is undisputed, factual, absolute truth.

I dispute it, call it non-factual, and inabsolute. :D That's the problem with bikes, as the specs sometimes don't translate to either a certain amount of fun, or a certain amount of got-to-buy-it-right-now-someone-try-and-stop-me. It's impossible to measure "better" by any tape measure, dyno, suspension tester, or lap time.

If you used the words "more capable", then it's a harder to dispute, as it's undoubtedly faster, likely a little more comfortable over long distances, might be better able to support a passenger, and certainly provides more bang for the buck in terms of inherent measured capabilities.

But none of that makes it better. And it was pulled from the market accordingly. Buyers are fickle creatures. :)

Learned something about the CBR250 today while chatting with the salesguy selling me my new 300. The CBR may be cheaper on Day 0, but the first service is early, and it's $500 as they do have a required valve check, compared to the $150ish service for the Ninjette, which doesn't require a valve check until 7500 miles.

That's a good point. I think the first service on the Honda is at 1000 km requiring oil and filter change, checking of bolts/nuts and valve clearance inspection. Seems like a huge money grab. The chances of a modern day Jap designed bike having valves go out of spec at 1000 km are probably virtually nil.

Learned something about the CBR250 today while chatting with the salesguy selling me my new 300. The CBR may be cheaper on Day 0, but the first service is early, and it's $500 as they do have a required valve check, compared to the $150ish service for the Ninjette, which doesn't require a valve check until 7500 miles.

The first service is recommended at 600 miles and I paid $199 (not including switching out front sprocket) and I paid this amount because the dealer I took it to charges $90/hr and it was a 2hr job for it including valve check, oil change, oil filter and they supposedly checked everything else checkable on the bike. It all depends on where you get the service done as I have seen many other Honda cbr riders pay alot less and some pay more.

Yep, it definitely depends on area. According to the guy I just bought the 300 from, who also sells CBR250's (Kawi/Honda/Suzuki dealership), it's a $500 service at their shop. What's the interval for the next valve check? The Kawi's have a 7500 mile interval from 2008 on, with first one due at 7500. The '07's and earlier did have an early valve check, requiring an expensive service at 600 miles.

According to Honda the second valve check is at 16,000 miles.

Then it's a bit of a wash, at least over 16k miles, with both bikes requiring two checks/adjustments. Past that period, if the interval remains 16k, it becomes cheaper on the Honda, though it takes until 22.5k miles for the 3rd one on the kawis. It's a rare bike in this class that makes it north of there before someone sells it, but certainly some do.

Learned something about the CBR250 today while chatting with the salesguy selling me my new 300. The CBR may be cheaper on Day 0, but the first service is early, and it's $500 as they do have a required valve check, compared to the $150ish service for the Ninjette, which doesn't require a valve check until 7500 miles.

No sorry Alex, the cbr first 1000km service is $200-$300, (even here in Oz)
includes valve clearance check.

I just got a 2012 Ninja 250 service done for a friend at same dealer group $150.

Neither bikes will 'fail' certainly not here, they are the 2 biggest sellers.
The Australian sales figures for first half of year 2012-

cbr250r 1258
Ninja 250 - 943

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=806956

My Ninja 300 wont fail either, I set up my motorcycles meticulously for track use.

Cannot fault the Honda, and have no brand loyalty or bias.
Cant wait to get it humming, hopefully lapping a little quicker, and the same sure footed handling.

My Ninja 300 wont fail either, I set up my motorcycles meticulously for track use.

Cannot fault the Honda, and have no brand loyalty or bias.
Cant wait to get it humming, hopefully lapping a little quicker, and the same sure footed handling.

It will be interesting what differences you can tell.......:thumbup:

It will be interesting what differences you can tell.......:thumbup:

If it can do this, and not lose so much to the big bikes on the boring bits I'll be stoked-

http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/16/24/31/39/_mg_5713.jpg

Just picture a White 300 under me instead lol.

< First post :) Been a lurker for a while

Ok, to the OP.. I am exactly the kind of buyer you described. I'm 29 years old and brought my first bike 3 months ago, Will I be lynched for saying I brought a CBR125 :eek: ? I love the bike to bits and have rolled up just under 4k miles. And yes I probably do look pretty silly as a middle aged man riding a 125...... I really dont care, it's my baby.

I'm doing my direct access course over the next couple of months and am looking for something to upgrade too. I've been umming and arr'ing over what to upgrade to and I must say untill recently i was settled on buying a CBR 250R, Which I DONT prefer over the ninja but I will have about 2k to lay down as a deposit on my second bike, Honda offer some very nice low interest rate finance which Kawasaki in the UK do not. On top of that the CBR has ABS which is an added plus, and yes... The bike itself is cheaper.

Enter the Ninja 300, All previous plans turn to plop... It's got plenty enough speed to keep me happy, looks fantastic, will manage 60-70mpg (or so i believe) and has abs.. ( cant say I care to much about a slipper clutch ? Maybe I ride like a noob/idiot but I cant say i've ever downshifted 4-5 gears and popped the clutch.,.... may try it for a laugh :rolleyes:)

Would I pay 1k more for a significantly better bike ? In an instant !!! and will be doing once they roll out here in the spring.

Orleanne

Oh yeah....the only issue I have with my ideas changing AGAIN is just how economical/budget/fast the new CBR 500 will be :/ Sigh

No sorry Alex, the cbr first 1000km service is $200-$300, (even here in Oz)
includes valve clearance check.

There's nothing to be sorry about, but that is exactly what the dealer 8 miles north of my house, who I just picked up my bike from Saturday, gets for the fisrt service on the CBR250's that they sell. I'm relaying exactly what they shared. Now whether someone who owns that bike decides that's a reasonable price to pay for that service, is certainly up for discussion.

There's nothing to be sorry about, but that is exactly what the dealer 8 miles north of my house, who I just picked up my bike from Saturday, gets for the fisrt service on the CBR250's that they sell. I'm relaying exactly what they shared. Now whether someone who owns that bike decides that's a reasonable price to pay for that service, is certainly up for discussion.

http://www.cbr250.net/forum/cbr250-service-maintenance/2806-first-service-cost.html

Most average $220 in the USA and $250 in Oz.
Thats for first compulsory valve clearance remember.. so about the same as the ninja & cbr annual service.
Very few actually need shims (mine didnt)... it just covers Honda's, (and the owners) ass.

Makes sense. Mine didn't need any shims at that first 7500 mile check either. Makes you feel like it was wasted $ in some ways, to open everything up just to find out that nothing needs to be done.

The valve check service is relevant to folks on ninjettes because it was a significant change from the '07 to '08 model; the older versions did require and early (expensive) valve check, and some dealers were asking similar amounts of money (insane) for that 600 mile service. That was pushed out to 7500 for the initial when they changed the valvetrain adjustment setup, and retained that interval for this newest redesign as well. That said, some folks who do their own work think that the older ('07 and earlier) design was much easier to deal with, as it didn't requiring obtaining the exact size shims and getting them exactly right; it was a simple screw & locknut system that could be completed without any additional parts.

Learned something about the CBR250 today while chatting with the salesguy selling me my new 300. The CBR may be cheaper on Day 0, but the first service is early, and it's $500 as they do have a required valve check, compared to the $150ish service for the Ninjette, which doesn't require a valve check until 7500 miles.

Service cost? Psssh n00b

I know, right?

Now, someone mentioned the beloved ER-6N earlier. I have one, I love it, it's better than all of your bikes (unless you have a Z1000 or a Ducati Monster.) This is undisputed, factual, absolute truth.I dispute it, call it non-factual, and inabsolute. :D That's the problem with bikes, as the specs sometimes don't translate to either a certain amount of fun, or a certain amount of got-to-buy-it-right-now-someone-try-and-stop-me. It's impossible to measure "better" by any tape measure, dyno, suspension tester, or lap time. ...

LOL, I'll explain:

I have one: True. Dispute it all you want. It's here.
I love it: True. Going to have to trust me on this.
It's better than all your bikes: True. Let me clarify, I am judging by my own personal, highly subjective standards.

Like you said, specs don't translate. I don't "bench race" and say it's better becasue it has XX.XX HP, it's better to me because I like it!

Now the U.S market... not a success at all. Not a hated bike, just an ignored one. I think if they had say.... advertised it, or offered it in more than one color per year.... Might be a different story.

The Ninja 300 will get plenty of advertising, and being an inexpensive bike, I'm sure it will sell well. But as long as Honda offers a less expensive version of the same thing (in a new owner's eyes) Kawi can't hold that percentage of the market that they did. The 250R was already more capable than the CBR, as far as power goes, and people still bought CBRs. Adding more power and features like a slipper clutch that a new rider doesn't recognize... meh. Should have offered a 250r with fuel injection and optional ABS for $500.00 less than the MSRP of the 300.

I think the price differences get nullified more than we'd think due to so many new riders relying on financing for these bikes. (regardless of what we might think about the benefits of doing so). The price that many newer / younger riders for either the kawi or the cbr has as much to do with the financing available. Nobody who wants the kawi is going to buy the cbr because it's a little cheaper. Nobody who wants the cbr is going to be swayed to the kawi, even if the pricing was identical.

I have a katana and a 2012 ninja250. the katana is fun in a straight line and the ninja is fun everywhere else, except in front of the line of cars that build up behind it on the highway.

I dropped some $ into forks, gearing ratio, and a laminar lip for the 250 so that it's smooth as glass, and the improvements make it world class afaic... except for the line of cars that build up behind it on the highway, and avoiding the prius drivers that can't stay in one lane.

waiting day by day for the 300 ABS to show up at the dealer nearby. for the money, swapping the 250 for the 300 is cheaper than finishing the job with exhaust, FI, and the ABS to cure that line of cars and obstacle course of prius drones ambling from side to side....

I have a katana and a 2012 ninja250. the katana is fun in a straight line and the ninja is fun everywhere else, except in front of the line of cars that build up behind it on the highway.

I dropped some $ into forks, gearing ratio, and a laminar lip for the 250 so that it's smooth as glass, and the improvements make it world class afaic... except for the line of cars that build up behind it on the highway, and avoiding the prius drivers that can't stay in one lane.

waiting day by day for the 300 ABS to show up at the dealer nearby. for the money, swapping the 250 for the 300 is cheaper than finishing the job with exhaust, FI, and the ABS to cure that line of cars and obstacle course of prius drones ambling from side to side....

Welcome! I hope the 300 does it for you. Keep us informed!

...except in front of the line of cars that build up behind it on the highway.

:eek: How fast do they drive in "Around"???? I can keep ahead of traffic pretty easily up to around 90-95mph.... If it going that fast I'm getting off....

:eek: How fast do they drive in "Around"???? I can keep ahead of traffic pretty easily up to around 90-95mph.... If it going that fast I'm getting off....

680 up here is 80 in the slow lane and wot in the diamond lane

...and bonus points for dodging the stationary or lanechanging priuses doing 70. Also gusty and foggy most morning

I'm 100+ lbs over the intended ninjette rider. My top end is lower with higher center of gravity

680 up here is 80 in the slow lane and wot in the diamond lane


Like I said 90-95 is okay but it take a minute to get up there....


I'm 100+ lbs over the intended ninjette rider.

Not sure what the "intend ninjette rider" weight is but I'm about 240+ :D with riding gear on... 80mph is "noprob":runaway:


...and bonus points for dodging the stationary or lanechanging priuses doing 70. :fencing:

Like I said 90-95 is okay but it take a minute to get up there....



Not sure what the "intend ninjette rider" weight is but I'm about 240+ :D with riding gear on... 80mph is "noprob":runaway:

:fencing:

im up around 270. i'm not personally experienced being lighter riding a 250 but I gotta figure the p/w ratio is significantly affected by 10lbs/hp weight penalty moreso than a 170 lb rider. racetech fork stuff for my weight bracket made the bike perfect to ride, top-end take-off aside.

fat-ass aside, i drive like im playing a game of chess, the ninja 250 is a better tool in congestion than a heavier bike, so i ride to work at 8 and ride back at 4:30 to make the most of bad traffic. cuts about an hour off of a 50 mile commute.

with the katana otoh 90+ is instant-on and fun when there's road but the damn prius drivers come up quicker in your flank and there's more inertia to plan for. given the throttle response of the katana and the heartbreaking reality that the ninja-250 simply has none, i decided the ninja was a clear winner for shoulder to shoulder lane splitting.


.. back to the 300 with abs and FI.. maybe enough power/brakes/throttle response to replace both bikes there...

and oh.. btw.. 300 ABS bikes are hitting Nov20.. i just called to firm up the dates

I hear you about the 300... and in a couple years when one can be had used for around 4k or < I' hope to be able to score one... mayber by then there will be BLACK ABS bikes to be had... because, as we all know, "Black IS the Faster Color"... (ask Jiggles) :thumbup:

The type of shopper the Ninja 300 and cbr250r attract are price conscientious ones. Most shoppers for these bikes are not enthusiast but people getting into biking for the first time. Most of these new buyers have heard of Honda and its reputation and most likely haven't heard of Kawasaki. They don't care about 300cc versus 250cc, rear tire size, etc.

The Ninja 250r used to be the 5th selling motorcycle in the US.
Kawasaki had a monopoly on the entry sport bike for many years. The Ninja 300 is a reactive response to Honda's cbr250r. The whole point of the Ninja 300 was to win back loss market share. But how does Kawasaki expect to beat Honda by charging $600* more for the base and $800* more for the abs model. In 5 years I'm sure the cbr250 will continue to dominate the Ninja.

Now I'm the type of buyer that spends $3000 on wheels or $1000 for a piece of carbon fiber to attach on my car. So buying the ninja 300 abs is not an issue for me. But I just don't see Honda losing this war.

*calculated using 2012 cbr pricing with the expectation that 2013 will have a $100 increase.

$600 more is bang for your buck considering 10HP more..ABS is + for resale

Has it failed yet?

Has it failed yet?

Nope just this thread. :)

Out here in NC were not seeing a whole heap of CBR250's... on the street I've seen a few but there are plenty in the showroom... the 300's are moving out the door almost as fast as they come in...

The type of shopper the Ninja 300 and cbr250r attract are price conscientious ones. Most shoppers for these bikes are not enthusiast but people getting into biking for the first time. Most of these new buyers have heard of Honda and its reputation and most likely haven't heard of Kawasaki. They don't care about 300cc versus 250cc, rear tire size, etc.



I did and I bought one.

as a new buyer i didn't mind the premium.

1. (parrellel twin) as apposed to a single donk,

2. not worried about + 90kmh (highway traffic etc)

3. fuel injection - this was a deciding factor for me.

4. slipper clutch - this may or may not be a marketing hype or a placebo affect but it does seem more forgiving on sloppy gear changes, I have only ridden a few bikes but it does seem to be slightly more forgiving.

I actually had money down on a CBR250 2012- and switched to a ninja. so i guess they must be doing something correct.

Has it failed yet?

Nope just this thread. :)

:ashamed20:

Tiny bit of necro-thread never hurt, right?

I was originally looking at the CBR250, but when the Ninja 300 was released and I saw the Cycle World dyno comparison between them, I was sold on having sufficient highway power. Add in the Ninja 300 looks proper and not a trainer or pit bike, and it was an easy choice for me. :thumbup:

i only have seen maybe two cbr250s in the past year.

from what i have seen, it has not been a good seller.

Only my second post on here (first was a wtb for some new-gen wheels), but this is the by far the dumbest thread I've actually read in a long ass time. I kept waiting for it to get better, but some people are just too damn dense.

I've been on forums long enough to know better, so I don't know what the hell I was thinking by reading this whole **** show.

Kawasaki does read the forums for feedback. But will they read my post? Maybe not. Anyways, I'm not saying kawasaki and the ninja are bad.

LOL! Yeah, Kawi's head-honcho's gonna read your post and change their ways. Way to make a difference in the world, man.

I hear you about the 300... and in a couple years when one can be had used for around 4k or < I' hope to be able to score one... mayber by then there will be BLACK ABS bikes to be had... because, as we all know, "Black IS the Faster Color"... (ask Jiggles) :thumbup:

As opposed to "asking" jiggles I prefer to use his anecdotal evidence. Which doesn't really speak to how fast the the black bikes are but does lead one to believe that black bikes are the least stable................ Bazinga

Is this guy serious???

When I bought my 30@ I asked about the cbr250s and the dealer said they don't even bother to carry them

I saw one of the baby repsol bikes... Dude wasn't happy that I was petting it an told him it was cute. Told him I hoped power sports would carry a real bike like the 300

I spoke to a young lad at our local bike meeting place (devil's bridge), He turned up on a fairly new cbr250, He absolutely hated it & wished he'd waited for the new 300 ninja instead of buying the cbr. Infact when he asked me what other bike's I had, He was rather pissed when I told him I had a 88 gpx 250 (ninja). Something like "Well you'ed blow my cbr into weeds":happy130: 70's kid (Paul)

The cbr isnt too bad, if you're looking for something better than a hyosung.

Dont see them too often around here, maybe its due to the large number of used ninjas.

Ok that was brain overload reading all that. Now I will be a statistic based on what I read. I knew Kawi made bikes, Honda, Suzuki, Harley, etc. What I did not know what Kawi was the major market holder of the 250 CC sport bikes until Honda came in with the CBR250. Doing searches for Suzuki, Yamaha 250's I was like hmm they dont make one. I did not know what a NINJA was.

I started watching Youtube videos (thank god for internet) about the 250 vs 300 since I had a one up with the 300 being out for 7mths when I started looking for my first bike. It became very clear after reading forums, articles, and watching review videos the Ninja 250 or 300 was the bike for me. Sorry CBR250 just doesnt do it. If I want a clunky sports bike it better go fast. I would not buy a 250 Gixxer ... why be slumped over like a track bike topping out 90-100 miles per hour. The Ninja however just looks mean even if the 250/300 is the baby and has a better riding position in my opinion.

After a month of researching and figuring out what I wanted to spend....3k on used 250 or 6k on new 300 with considerable upgrades that would keep me satisfied for quite some time. New powerband, larger engine, FI, ABS option (great for me being a noob - already grabbed the front brake hard one time and was just waiting to go down but nope) and the slipper clutch which prob wont come into play on skipping shifts (i hope) is smooth as butter.

The 300 sold itself to me... and I think anyone looking for a bike in this category that does research and not just run to the dealer and say "I want a beginner bike that is cheap" will buy a 300.

My 2 cents.

Its sad the dealer I got my 300 at had 4 used Honda 250 he told me every single one was a trade in for the ninja 300.

Everything I say is just my opinion. But for most shoppers the difference between a 250 and 300 is not as great as say a 250 and 600. People that buy a 600 or 1000 are most likely buying their 2nd maybe 3rd bike. They have experienced what they like and don't like. Most people that buy a 250 are getting their first bike. So they are not an experienced enthusiast. And this is just my opinion but most shoppers do not study and research before buying their first bike, unlike members on this forum.

I am aware about weight savings as my tire and wheel package weighs less than my oem forged wheels. See, you and I research and know a lot of detail. I wouldn't say that about most shoppers that go into the dealerships.

The difference between the 250 and 300 is great especially when comparing looks and fuel injection. I've been riding since I was 8 and since fuel injection came along I wont even consider a carburated bike but that's my opinion. I think theirs enough interest in the market for both bikes and at the end of the day its going to come down to what you like and can afford. If your financing and can only get approved for enough money for a 250 than that's what you have to get.

Who is this Kawasaki company? Never heard of em.

Believe it or not people know who Kawasaki is every motorcycle people see they think its a Ninja.

If Kawasaki had sold the FI 250 here that they sell everywhere else Honda wouldn't be selling their 250 here and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Snubbing their customers is a good way for a company to lose those customer's business. I see the 300 as being too little, too late to save Kawasaki's dominance in the small bike market in this country.

I agree with the FI 250 comment but not the dominance in the small bike market

...Believe it or not people know who Kawasaki is every motorcycle people see they think its a Ninja...

LOL! See, ninjaone (see conversation earlier in this thread)? Rowdy76 is one of the very few who didn't know before-hand. :)

Edit: Oops. Alex said to "put up numbers or shut up," so I had better get my Looxcie fixed and make my poll of random people. :)

Its sad the dealer I got my 300 at had 4 used Honda 250 he told me every single one was a trade in for the ninja 300.

All of the dealers by me are loaded with Honda CBR250R's. The Ninja 300's are selling like crazy. When I first started thinking about getting a bike I immediately thought of a new Ninja 250. Once I learned that 2012 was it's last year and the 300 was the replacement, it was a no brainer that it was on my short list. The Honda appealed to me with it's proven reliability and lower price, but I quickly realized that I would quickly outgrow it and want a Ninja 300 in a few months time. To me the extra power, better looks etc. are well worth the slightly higher price of admission.

i'll buy a cbr 250 for $1000 only to crash it and turn it into a streetfighter, lol.

its the only way my soul will remain whole, and the only way it'll ever be cool....

Typical college kid income
I'm a money conscious college student in Idaho, Econ major. I work a part time making about $300/mo. My wife works as a cosmetologist and makes $9/hr.
Ride situation
2 cars: 00' Eclipse GT, and my hammered off-roading Jeep (15mpg). I sold the Jeep when a guy offered me $1200. My wife really wanted a Vulcan 900. She's never had a bike so I'm like "Woah babe, you're 135lbs and NUTS." I said we should buy her a 250 V-Star. But she wanted something more legit.
Why the Ninja>CBR
CBR had ugly.
Ninja 300 had fresh looking fairings, gauges, and wheels. It had a slipper clutch, 50% +hp, and at NO RPM is the CBR's HP/Torque up with the 300's.
It was honestly an easy choice.
Why not used?
I considered a used bike (Honda Rebel, not a ninja) for her at $1300. Of course, that'd mean no slipper clutch, ABS, HP, or sexy. On top of $1300 i'd have to buy gear etc, adding up to the better part of another $1k.
I put $1k down on the bike, and got 2 free ICON helmets in the negotiation (totaling $480+t). After more negotiating, my OTD price was $5420 for the 300 SE w/ ABS, and I don't need to buy lids. And my wife loves it.
She's wearing my mx helmet, our ICON lids will be here Friday =)
http://www.33third.com/UserUpload/nikki's%20bike.jpg

Nice! $300/mo income and bought a new bike, way to live within your means

Nice! $300/mo income and bought a new bike, way to live within your means

lol, my wife makes $1400/mo, and driving the Jeep was $350/mo in gas alone. That's more than the payment and gas combined for the bike. I have no student loans, and rent in Idaho is cheap. I'll be graduating next year and we should be able to pay off the bike by the end of 2014

Typical college kid income
I'm a money conscious college student in Idaho, Econ major. I work a part time making about $300/mo. My wife works as a cosmetologist and makes $9/hr.
Ride situation
2 cars: 00' Eclipse GT, and my hammered off-roading Jeep (15mpg). I sold the Jeep when a guy offered me $1200. My wife really wanted a Vulcan 900. She's never had a bike so I'm like "Woah babe, you're 135lbs and NUTS." I said we should buy her a 250 V-Star. But she wanted something more legit.
Why the Ninja>CBR
CBR had ugly.
Ninja 300 had fresh looking fairings, gauges, and wheels. It had a slipper clutch, 50% +hp, and at NO RPM is the CBR's HP/Torque up with the 300's.
It was honestly an easy choice.
Why not used?
I considered a used bike at $1300. Of course, that'd mean no slipper clutch, ABS, HP, or sexy. On top of $1300 i'd have to buy gear etc, adding up to the better part of another $1k.
I put $1k down on the bike, and got 2 free ICON helmets in the negotiation (totaling $480+t). After more negotiating, my OTD price was $5420 for the 300 SE w/ ABS, and I don't need to buy lids. And my wife loves it.
She's wearing my mx helmet, our ICON lids will be here Friday =)
http://www.33third.com/UserUpload/nikki's%20bike.jpg
Look at that huge grin. Great price and ABS but the white one is faster.

I will throw some pure conjecture on this thread. Where I work I am the only one with a Ninja 250 (no ninja 300s that I have seen), while there are 3 CBR 250s It would be interesting to see the 2011, 2012, and 2013 sales numbers for the bikes.
Also remember that there is a huge overseas market for the small displacement bikes so truthfully the US is probably a relatively small market for both Kawasaki and Honda 250/300

Those poor misguided Honda fanatics. You should go tell them
How inferior their bikes are

I do have to say I am a sucker for the Repsol graphics. I haven't seen a 250 with that paint on the street, but if they put it on the cbr500r, man that will be tempting.

Those poor misguided Honda fanatics. You should go tell them
How inferior their bikes are
Don't misunderstand, I've seen where the CBR 250r's got strengths. What's important is getting my girl what she wanted. Neither of us are street bike enthusiasts, we aren't putting a knee down in the canyon, and we aren't hitting the track. I think it is a better first bike for her in every way.

I do have to say I am a sucker for the Repsol graphics. I haven't seen a 250 with that paint on the street, but if they put it on the cbr500r, man that will be tempting.
You know that's true. I had talk my self out of buying that Repsol and saving a few bux lol. I asked Nikki if she'd want it, but she liked the 300 a lot more. To me, the Repsol looks better than the 300 se haha

As another counter to this opinion, I'm a new rider and looking at the Ninja 300 almost exclusively. I might get a CBR if they start showing up on the used market super cheap, but right now there are none around here. Even then I may hold out, the Ninja seems to be a hell of a lot more bike for $600 more. The main reason I even looked at the CBR over the old ninja is the fuel injection. Seems like a carb might be a pain in the ass at altitude and in the cold here in CO.

Too bad I'm getting into the market at such a crappy time. Maybe I can manage to hold off buying a bike long enough to get a used 300. I need to get one soon enough that I don't forget everything from the MSF course though. =P

ive seen a total of 2 cbr's on the street and/or parked since ive been riding.

ive also seen a good 15+ ninja 300's on the street and parked.

id say 300 is winning lolol

i saw a maroon one yesterday, first time in months.

it was like i found the SOJ, diablo reference, except the feeling of amazement wore of in a matter of minutes. :D

I haven't seen a single CBR250 around here even though the dealer has them and there are some at the used bike shop. But I've never seen a single one of them on the road (or parked) which I think is weird. Somebody has to have one that I see sometime right?

I have seen about 4-5 ninja 300s on the road.

And a lot of pre gen and new gen Ninja 250s. The 250s are everywhere around here it seems. It will take quite a few years for the 300 to become a bike you see tons of - too many nice 250s still out there to be displaced.

yea, i'll probably be riding the ninja until the engine blows up.

probably another 4-5 yrs, lol.

So did the 300 fail and take Kawasaki out of business?

i didn't buy one yet, lol.
still waiting for my engine to blow up....

So did the 300 fail and take Kawasaki out of business?

the black tanks on the '14 models will cause them to fail.. :rotflmao:

I love my '13 stardust white :dancecool:

The best part about forums is when people make ridiculous claims, you have the proof in writing. OP is clearly a clown that doesn't know nearly as much about business as he thought :lol:

My 300 fail a few times... Once in my truck, an that one time I was riding trails on it.
OP couldn't have been serious

I forgot something

The Ninja 300's are selling like crazy.

Yup! Dealership I deal with sold 93 300's in 2013.

I wish Honda had continued its development of this little gem instead, one of the sweetest 250s, and with a bit of v twin low end for beginners. I know the engine is an old design but so is the ninjette's underneath.
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_vt250f%2083.htm

I see a lot of folks posting that they see far more CBR250s than Ninja 300, but I have to say that where I live it is the other way around. This might well be that Honda support here (Victoria, BC) is just plain better than Kawasaki, or that the Honda has been out longer.

Still, I have seen perhaps two 300s, whereas I see the CBR250 much more frequently.

It would be interesting to see actual sales figures for the 300 vs the old 250r, or the CBR250.

The cbr250 really lags on the freeway. As long as honda sells a 250 single, kawi will be winning

+1 The cbr250 is not gonna cut it on the freeway. My 250 Ninja is considerably faster than the little Honda single. Honda needs to bring back the CBR250RR. The only way I'm riding that slow single, is if it's the Baby Repsol.

I wish Honda had continued its development of this little gem instead, one of the sweetest 250s, and with a bit of v twin low end for beginners. I know the engine is an old design but so is the ninjette's underneath.
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_vt250f%2083.htm
When Honda first announced a new 250 for the U.S. I was thinking (hoping) it was the updated Euro version of the VTR250 that came here for only a couple of years back in the late 80s as a 250cc water-cooled V-twin full-fairing competitor to the Ninja.

No idea why they went with such a strange paint job back then -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q28/jverg/Misc/VTR_zpsfd2e7d60.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/jverg/media/Misc/VTR_zpsfd2e7d60.jpg.html)

Also had an unusual inboard disc on the front that didn't work that well.

Honda changed it up later, and produced a neat little naked version that later became updated with F.I.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q28/jverg/Misc/606020VTR250_zps67feda66.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/jverg/media/Misc/606020VTR250_zps67feda66.jpg.html)

Wouldn't be quite as beginner-friendly as the CBR250R, but a lot more capable - and fun!

How can someone prefer the cbr250 against the ninja 300, or even the 250, i test drove all 3, though I was interested in the ninja from the start i went ahead and tried the cbr just to make sure I was making the right decision, and nothing from the experience of riding the cbr left me thinking I maybe should have gotten the cbr instead of the ninja, i could name all the reasons why the ninja felt much better than the cbr but you all already know, overall you just feel better riding the ninja.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152373962178399&set=a.229771858398.136659.819008398&type=1&relevant_count=1

How can someone prefer the cbr250 against the ninja 300, or even the 250, i test drove all 3, though I was interested in the ninja from the start i went ahead and tried the cbr just to make sure I was making the right decision, and nothing from the experience of riding the cbr left me thinking I maybe should have gotten the cbr instead of the ninja, i could name all the reasons why the ninja felt much better than the cbr but you all already know, overall you just feel better riding the ninja.

i agree, the ninja seems to have more soul.

How can someone prefer the cbr250 against the ninja 300, or even the 250
Not everyone is you. Riding a motorcycle is a very visceral experience, and what appeals to you might not appeal to another rider (and vice versa).