Was coming form a stop light on us-1 accelerated hard from 1st. shifted at ~8000 granny shifting into 2nd. Reapply throttle A couple seconds later i get a tank slap. Lasted all of about 1 second at the most. I highside and proceed to roll down us-1 for a couple hundred feet. The spectators behind me said the bike flipped a couple of times. It had frame sliders on it. I think thats why it flipped. Have rash on my forearms, lower back, right knee, and a large bruise on my left thigh. I am really really pissed.

Youch, I'm sorry to hear that. Glad you're mostly OK and will be fully OK soon enough; a bike is only a bike and can be replaced. What's your insurance coverage like?

I didnt have insurance. I now know that was very poor judgement on my part. So im stuck paying it off. That hurts the most. My next bike will have full coverage though.

granny shifting into 2nd.
what does that mean No clutch??

what does that mean No clutch??well maybe i said it wrong. I simply shifted slowly

Sucks man!

WOW - that is brutal. The good news is that you are OK. What did you have on for gear?

I hope you heal quick. :(

Sorry to hear that John, I hope you heal fast! :)

The bike as others have said, can be replaced, sure it will cost you, but the main part is that you are still alive and don't have any permanant injurys as you cannot replace a human body! :(

I am trying to visualize how shifting slow could have caused a tank slap, but I am unable to. :confused:

I don't think shifting slow had anything to do with it. I think rolling back on the throttle lightened the front end up more than he expected, and the front tire skipped across a portion of the road with a little wiggle. If you don't have the experience to handle a little wiggle, it can become a big wiggle pretty quick, and worst case you find yourself sliding down the road behind your bike. I hope for his sake that he takes more away from this than just bruises, and understands how things might be handled differently the next time.

Tank slappers severe enough to buck someone off a bike are pretty rare for an unmodified bike. Things that can make tank slappers more likely:

- steeper steering angle (by lowering the front/raising the rear/dropping the forks)
- incorrect tire pressure front or even rear in some cases
- steering head bearings over or under-tightened
- suspension way out of adjustment for the current rider and/or riding style

but most importantly:

- holding on to the handlebars too tight, especially when something spooks the rider, feeding every little wiggle right back to the bars in ever greater amounts causing the little wiggle to grow to an uncontrollable one.

A steering damper can help keep the problem from being too severe, and may even be considered necessary for high speeds on supersport-type bikes with very aggressive steering geometry for great flickability (and less stability). But a damper won't mask poor technique, and the effects of that will carry over into many other aspects of riding anyway. :2cents: Best way to keep a small slapper from becoming a big one is to relax and change the resonant frequency of the front end in some way by making a change. Easiest way is to roll on the throttle hard or roll off the throttle hard, but while doing so make sure not to have a deathgrip on the bars. All that will do is hurt your wrists in the best case, or worse, as may have happened here.

Heal up fast...

On a separate but certainly related topic, this is one area that I think folks can't really learn on a ninja 250 no matter how many miles we put on it: the importance of smooth throttle control.

Just about everything else about riding any type of bike we can learn even quicker on the ninjette. Corner speed, braking, body positioning, speed management, shifting, line choice, really almost anything. But not smooth throttle control. I believe that because no matter what you do with a ninjette's throttle, at any point in the rev range and at any road speed, it will not get the bike out of sorts. Maybe heeled over at max lean and going from no throttle instantly to full throttle on a wet road, but that's really the extreme of what it would take. We only have 15-ish footpounds of torque, which isn't going to overpower the rear wheel or lift the front end much without some real concentration and special techniques. Which may make us overconfident with our throttle skills.

Going from that amount of power to a literbike which has enough torque to completely overpower the bike if handled clumsily, is a large step that shouldn't be underestimated. Smooth throttle control is the key factor here, and the smoother the better. It's not about riding slow, it's knowing that the more power you have to play with, the slower you move your hands to apply the power. Check out the on-bike shots of the throttle for any superbike or motoGP race. I'm always amazed at how smooth and slow their control inputs are while the bikes are both accelerating and braking with forces we can't even comprehend.

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate accident, but glad you are going to be okay.

Thanks Alex for the detailed info, each bike can always teach us something new, The 250 is forgiving. :) but flickable.

Alex you did not imply this but I thought this would be a good time ....
I have often heard that the 250 is a great beginner bike. I have said this before on other forums...
by no means is ANY bike a "beginner Bike." The 250 is just less intimidating.
They all have the capability of , well you know...cring:( You can begin to learn on a bike but nothing is a Beginner bike.
It would be a mistake for anyone to have less respect for a 250 bike than a liter bike. even a scooter as that goes...

I am glad the 250 is as forgiving as it is, having just about highsiding this summer overreaction to a dog. My bad....locking it up like that with too much front brake and the rear started around then the weight changed directions.


thankful for my dirt riding experience and a forgiving little Ninja

I have no business being on a liter bike. I have a heavy throttle hand.

Bone Head I hope you are feeling better today.

Heal up quick!

Sorry to hear about ur accident.Every time one of us goes down we get a little sad in the mito community.glad that u r ok.wish you a speedy recovery.
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Glad to hear your okay! Sounds like a bad experience. I almost had a small slapper on my CBR250RR when I changed the steering neck bearings from a ball bearing stying to a tapered bearing style. It changed the steering feel and became VERY light feeling in the front end.

Alex you did not imply this but I thought this would be a good time ....
I have often heard that the 250 is a great beginner bike. I have said this before on other forums...
by no means is ANY bike a "beginner Bike." The 250 is just less intimidating.


I know what you're saying, and I think we're in complete agreement. To be blunt, you can off yourself just as easily on a ninjette as you can on a turbo'd ZX-14. We're really not that robust when you get down to it, and trying to keep from bouncing off solid objects is generally a good plan no matter what bike you're on.

I do think that the ninjette is a stellar beginner bike, if not one of the best available. Because if you're interested in motorcycling, you have to begin somewhere, right? It's like being sort of pregnant. :) We are or we aren't. If you're on a motorcycle (or a scooter), you're motorcycling. Might as well choose a mount that gives you a fighting chance to gain some skills in a relatively forgiving manner compared to other mounts.

I believe this for a couple reasons:

- it's relatively light, and easy to maneuver at low speeds

- it has great steering lock (you can turn the bars quite wide), adding to confidence at low speeds

- confident riding position, not too aggressive yet not leaned back, which helps folks coming right from the msf feel more comfortable than a supersport

- predictable, forgiving handling. Press the bars a certain amount, and the ninjette leans a certain amount. And it doesn't take much physical force to do so, it's a very easy-steering bike

- high cornering limits. Even the stock tires provide a tremendous amount of grip on the road, and there is quite a bit of lean angle available, significantly more on the 2nd-gen's compared to the pre-gen's, but more than enough on both. Need to make that corner that surprised you? Lean harder, and chances are the bike will surprise you.

- powerful, yet not overly-responsive brakes. The brakes have enough power to haul us down quite quickly, but it takes a firm squeeze on the lever. People are less likely to unintentionally lock a wheel on a ninjette than some of the more modern braking systems on a supersport bike. And not just on things like Ducatis. Even the new KTM's have very touchy front brakes with infinite power, but they require a very sensitive hand to make sure you don't ask for more than you really want.

- the ninjette is inexpensive, though it is more dear than in years past. But in running costs (tires/gas/chain/servicing in general), it's a very economical way to break into the sport

- and last but not least, the powerplant. The ninjette provides enough power to have fun, but not enough to catch people out. You can't spin a tire, you can't lift the front end once the bike is moving at just about any speed, and the throttle response in general is very, very forgiving. Yet the motor is so much fun to rev, that all of us can enjoy ourselves revving it for all its worth for a couple gears, getting that universal pleasure of really using a machine's capabilities, without needing to put up bail money as we may if we used the same portion of capabilities of a more powerful bike on the public roads.

All of these things IMO make it a pretty darned good beginner bike. What makes it a great bike in general, is that it's still a fun bike after we build our initial skillset. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to go through these attributes point by point vs. other machine choices we could make, say a GSX-R1000 for an extreme example, but suffice it to say that bike wouldn't share many of the strengths that make a ninjette such a great choice.

It would be a mistake for anyone to have less respect for a 250 bike than a liter bike. even a scooter as that goes...
You touch on a pretty serious, imo, issue: People take scooters very lightly.

A couple of co-workers got scooters without taking MSF or really much of any precaution because "it's just a scooter." Only gear they wear is helmet and gloves. But these small cc scooters are only used for city riding, which is the most dangerous two-wheel riding out there.

The freeway? Piece of cake, everyone's going the same direction, no stopping, no left-turners to worry about, no traffic pulling in from cross streets and driveways. Back roads? So little traffic that it seems most back road accidents are self-inflicted. City streets? Everything to worry about crammed in the smallest space possible.

Nevermind that the lower seating position of a scooter makes you smaller and harder to see, and further limits your view around taller cars. Generally poorer performance includes less stopping power and less steering/swerving ability.

This is by no means a scooter bash (I keep telling my girlfriend to buy one so I can ride it), I just think it's nuts that people take scooter riding so lightly.

Ryan, I couldn't agree with you more. :thumbup:

Hope you heal up soon!

Excellent points you made, Alex. Its exactly why i chose to buy a ninja instead of other bikes i could have gotten used for the same price.

I do think that the ninjette is a stellar beginner bike, if not one of the best available. Because if you're interested in motorcycling, you have to begin somewhere, right? It's like being sort of pregnant. We are or we aren't. If you're on a motorcycle (or a scooter), you're motorcycling. Might as well choose a mount that gives you a fighting chance to gain some skills in a relatively forgiving manner compared to other mounts.

Alex I do understand all of this and agree. I just wish it would be considered a bike to "begin on" the term Beginner's bike seems to me that folks who are naive' might think they are safer automatically starting on this. it is a Potato PAtoto thang. :)

This is by no means a scooter bash (I keep telling my girlfriend to buy one so I can ride it), I just think it's nuts that people take scooter riding so lightly.

My two friend with vespas are so serious. They make me proud. Courses and Gear! Vespas, ruckus's,Stella' s all rock.

Well I certainly think this thread has got a lot of very useful info for all of us, beginers lik myself especially.

I can't agree more on how people who ride scooters are so vulnerable. A book I have got here, called Ride to Live, Live to Ride, by Paul Owen (written in NZ :D ) states the facts of everything in blck and white, I will use the dress code as an example (I could go off on a MASSIVE tangent on this book :p ) he says that (and give real life examples) on all types of bike riders, Harleys, sportsbikes, scooters etc and what the masses of the style rider wears and how the clothing can affect them in an accident. In the book it says that often a scooter rider is wearing normal street clothes. I even saw one today riding in shorts, t-shirts and open sandels. Sure the little 50cc scooters can't go fast, but that is not the point. You maybe the best rider out there, doesn't mean you are immune to some SMIDSY (Sorry Mate, I Didn't See You) driver.

The book states that the sportsbike riders are the most safety gear wearing riders out there. Which I will agree with as I look at all the bike I see and note what they wear, and in this world, it is what you must do to stay alive out there.

:2cents:

bone head, have a speedy recovery!

curious... how long did you own your 250 before you decided to step up to the liter? glad to hear that you escaped serious injury... what kind of gear were you wearing?

curious... how long did you own your 250 before you decided to step up to the liter?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=12796&postcount=25

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11221

SMIDSY (Sorry Mate, I Didn't See You) driver

*LOVE* that acronym. :thumbup: Read it first in some brit magazine, and I remember laughing out loud at it. It's not a common term in the US, but it really should become one. Maybe we can work at it from here... :)

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/Bone_Head311/bike2.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/Bone_Head311/bike1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/Bone_Head311/back.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/Bone_Head311/forearm.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/Bone_Head311/knee.jpg

*LOVE* that acronym. :thumbup: Read it first in some brit magazine, and I remember laughing out loud at it. It's not a common term in the US, but it really should become one. Maybe we can work at it from here... :) I know, it is great and it is completely true! I think we should work at it :D

John, they certainly look painful. But atleast you are still in one piece (minus all the skin on the road :p )

Question...What is tank slap? :confused: I haven't heard that term before.

NB

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11535

Hope you have a speedy recovery!!!

As do I.

When I got my bike everyone told me to be careful. I told them "of course I'll be careful, I don't want to wreck more than you don't want me to." And then they said it's the other people you have to watch out for. To that I replied "you have a friend/daughter/sister out there on a bike, tell your friends and have them watch out for me and other riders and I'll do my part to stay safe." Moral to the story... none. lol

I just picked up and 87 cbr600 off craigslist