Hey Peeps :D

So, there I was walking to my bike after a day at work, I was thinking wow, this wind is really bad. Anywho, I proceded to mount my bike and start her up when a massive cross wind came and I had to plant both feet on the ground to avoid falling over. It was like this through the whole city till I managed to reach the highway where I would be riding into the wind.

There is a left hand turn on an overpass that is always windy, I got onto the over pass, there was no wind, great :D.. Then bang, it hit and I could see the concrete barrier getting closer very quickly :eek: I closed the throttle a little and leaned harder to the left. I made it round the corner without incident and I had room to spare, so all is good. But this has raised a question for me, what does everyone else do when it is really windy? I know that NZ is windier than most places due to the location, but it will still apply. Do you stay inside away from riding, or do you brave the wind? and if you do ride, how do you stay on your intended path without being blown off?

Thanks
David :D

how strong was the wind?

There are things you can do to make riding in windy conditions less hairy, but there's also a point where it doesn't matter who you are or what you're riding and intense winds can be unsafe.

The simplest and most helpful advice I've come across is to keep your elbows/shoulders loose. Wind is generally more likely to move your torso than your bike. If your arms are tense (in scary winds, it's natural) then your moving torso is going to also move the handlebars, which then steers the bike. Keep your arms loose and your body can wiggle in the wind without affecting your steering.

I am not sure of the exact speed, or force of the wind, but considering I had to have both feet planted at a stop not to fall over, it was higher than normal.

Ryan, I know that there is a point where it is just not safe to ride, I know people who have been thrown off bigger bikes by the wind.

I usually try to keep myself hunkered down a little under the aftermarket screen I have as it sends a lot more of the wind over the top of me compared to the stock screen.

I usually try to keep myself as loose as I can when riding as I have found my riding is smoother, but I have not thought about it when riding in windy situations like this, next time I will look at how I am riding and adjust accordingly.

I might add that yes, I do live in windy Wellington before anyone else says it :p

If I've found myself riding in high winds, I have learned that riding slower doesn't help the situation. If you have a choice to be riding 45 mph or 60 mph, for example, the effect of crosswinds is more prevalent at 45 compared to 60. Doesn't mean you should go faster than you feel comfortable, but a little speed does provide more inertia in the direction you want to go, as well as more gyroscopic stability from the bike.

Yes, I have also found this is true, the difference between riding at low speeds getting onto the highway and then at actual highway speeds I feel more stable. (and it is the same environment, so the wind is the same)

The part that concerns me is while cornering and the wind hitting in the side that I am turning to (turning left, wind hits left)

Understood. It can be unnerving at times, but just remember that you can provide a heck of lot more directional control to the bike with countersteering than any wind gust ever will be able to. Don't tense up, don't get nervous, and just continue to look where you want to go and apply pressure to the bars to make sure it happens.

Sudden gusts are never fun, but I kinda like riding in strong sidewinds, especially with a group, as it looks neat to me to have a string of motorcycles traveling down a straight road all leaned over into the wind. :)

Yes, that is true. I am in control of the bike, NOT the wind :D I will try all this out tonight.

I was thinking about this on the ride into work this morning and made sure I stayed loose and kept looking where I wanted to go and the wind didn't bother me as much :D

I will admit, it does look cool to see a bike going down a straight road leaning over to counteract the wind :D especially when the viewer is not in the wind, so does not know the force.

Thanks everyone :)

You can predict sudden wind blasts around buildings, underpasses, etc. Just picture the wind squeezing in between two buildings--it will accelerate. The same applies to treelines and hills off to the side. It is second nature to me because I am a sailor. As soon as I pass a land mass, I expect a blow.

Yeah, I try to do that, but the thing is, some times there is a wind blast and others there is not. Also, trying to predict when and in which direction the wind will hit, is hard (around town, the highway if fine as it is more predictable). No doubt with practice I will get better though.

I've done a lot of riding in the wind at my location. Since I work in LA during the week, I go through a low mountain pass on I-10 on a regular basis, where it's not uncommon to have windy and gusty conditions.

Like you've all been saying, don't brace yourself against the wind (you're moving, what is there to brace against?). If you lock yourself up then you have no control, you're just a large tin can waiting for a strong enough gust. The trick is to be prepared to counteract the effects of the wind. The preparation is partly physical, a comfortable tuck posture so that you're not acting like a sail, a good grip with both hands without tensing your arms so that you can use the controls but stay mobile; and partly mental where you anticipate the motion(s) of the wind and how you'll respond to them. You end up constantly adjusting to stay on your intended path. I guess it's sort of a "Zen" thing, try to work with the wind, don't fight too hard against it.

The inertia and gyro-stabilization definitely works too. Generally, go as fast as you are comfortable with for the situation. That minimizes the effects of the crosswinds and all.

And, of course, there should be a safety limit where enough is enough (which can vary from person to person). If the cage drivers can't stay in their lanes, or there's danger of trucks turning over, or airborne debris affecting visibility (or lane conditions!) then it's time to stay home. :couch2:

My friend who races a `Busa says, "Loosen up and let the bike dance with you. After a while it gets to be a lot of fun" Sort of what Alex was alluding to. I agree that in town it is entirely a different story.

Ken, that is a very good and clear explanation which makes a lot of sense.

So, if it is too windy, would you call into work for me and tell them I won't be in due to the wind? :D (even though I could take the train :p )

Alex, that is a very good metaphor to explain it!

My biggest issue with riding in the wind is in-town where the speeds are lower. I rode for the first time, after my little wind accident Memorial Day weekend, last Thursday. Coming home from school in a 40 MPH zone I slowed down to about 10-15 MPH as I approached my right hand turn into the neighborhood and thought for sure the bike was going to blow out from underneath me. I would have been so pissed as I had just fixed the bike from the previous windstorm.

Other than just relaxing (which is difficult to do when it feels like a crash is fast approaching), are there any other tips for lower speed riding in windy conditions? It is often gusty around where I live, especially in the evenings.

one time I went over the Richmond Bridge. Not surprisingly, windy as hell since it's over the water.

In general for riding in a straight road, I found what works for me is staying low on the bike, but relaxed, and steady on the throttle keeping it in the right power band.

it gets windy here, and it's never been an issue till i experienced the wind's effect on the 250. alex has offered some good advice in dealing with the handling issues the wind has on our smaller, lighter machines. the ninja simply gets pushed around abit more than any other cycle i've ridden, and this fact has actually affected my decision to ride or not. i'd estimate that gusty trade wind weather w/winds at or over 35mph is where i'd consider riding the bike or not.

I've done a lot of riding in the wind at my location. Since I work in LA during the week, I go through a low mountain pass on I-10 on a regular basis, where it's not uncommon to have windy and gusty conditions.

Like you've all been saying, don't brace yourself against the wind (you're moving, what is there to brace against?). If you lock yourself up then you have no control, you're just a large tin can waiting for a strong enough gust. The trick is to be prepared to counteract the effects of the wind. The preparation is partly physical, a comfortable tuck posture so that you're not acting like a sail, a good grip with both hands without tensing your arms so that you can use the controls but stay mobile; and partly mental where you anticipate the motion(s) of the wind and how you'll respond to them. You end up constantly adjusting to stay on your intended path. I guess it's sort of a "Zen" thing, try to work with the wind, don't fight too hard against it.

The inertia and gyro-stabilization definitely works too. Generally, go as fast as you are comfortable with for the situation. That minimizes the effects of the crosswinds and all.

And, of course, there should be a safety limit where enough is enough (which can vary from person to person). If the cage drivers can't stay in their lanes, or there's danger of trucks turning over, or airborne debris affecting visibility (or lane conditions!) then it's time to stay home. :couch2:


:whathesaid:

i'd estimate that gusty trade wind weather w/winds at or over 35mph is where i'd consider riding the bike or not.

Umm yeah, if it's that bad, I dont blame ya. I wouldnt be riding at all on a day like that

Riding in the wind > Pissing in the wind
:thumbup:

One thing that drives me batty is when people suggest stepping up to a larger cc bike because the wind blows the 250's all over the freeway. Seeing as the 250 shares the same wheel size, same general shape, similar weight, and similar rake angles, there is literally no difference the wind would have on a 250 bike that it would over a 600cc bike.

That's not quite the theme of this thread, but that question seems to come up a LOT with people who are new to riding on freeways.

If I've found myself riding in high winds, I have learned that riding slower doesn't help the situation. If you have a choice to be riding 45 mph or 60 mph, for example, the effect of crosswinds is more prevalent at 45 compared to 60. Doesn't mean you should go faster than you feel comfortable, but a little speed does provide more inertia in the direction you want to go, as well as more gyroscopic stability from the bike.

Not sure I agree with this assessment. Last I checked, you get more overturned semis on windy freeways that in windy parking lots..

A more (or perhaps less) relevant example would be that places like Bonneville get shut down if its too windy. And by too windy, i mean too breezy.

One thing that drives me batty is when people suggest stepping up to a larger cc bike because the wind blows the 250's all over the freeway. Seeing as the 250 shares the same wheel size, same general shape, similar weight, and similar rake angles, there is literally no difference the wind would have on a 250 bike that it would over a 600cc bike.

That's not quite the theme of this thread, but that question seems to come up a LOT with people who are new to riding on freeways.

Have you actually ridden something larger than a 250? I rode my friend's '08 ZX-10R, and I could not BELIEVE how much more stable and planted that thing felt at ALL speeds compared to my 250 with modified suspension, and I love how my bike feels. I rode a stock '07 that felt like I was riding on a water bed..

Not sure I agree with this assessment. Last I checked, you get more overturned semis on windy freeways that in windy parking lots..

A more (or perhaps less) relevant example would be that places like Bonneville get shut down if its too windy. And by too windy, i mean too breezy.

I've found it to be true, both of your examples are corner cases. A stopped vehicle sure isn't going to move that much, and a vehicle breaking landspeed records is at the very limits of traction and air at 200+ mph or more can have a tremendous effect even if there is the slightest crosswind.

But at speeds that we're all more used to on our motorcycles, in my experience there's some validity to it. It can be demonstrated best on a very windy day on a place where there are unpredictable crosswinds. Best example I can give is going over the SF Bay bridge when the wind is up. On a bike at 40 mph it's incredibly hairy; I remember times being blown from one side of the lane to the other, manhandling the controls to keep things going straight. First inclination is to slow a bit, but it actually makes things worse. Speeding up to 50 or even 60 adds a surprising amount of directional stability. YMMV.

Have you actually ridden something larger than a 250? I rode my friend's '08 ZX-10R, and I could not BELIEVE how much more stable and planted that thing felt at ALL speeds compared to my 250 with modified suspension, and I love how my bike feels. I rode a stock '07 that felt like I was riding on a water bed..

Yes I've ridden several larger bikes. I've noticed no WIND differences. The wind blowing on a 250 is going to be the same as a 10R. The RIDE might be smoother as the suspension a ton more adjustable and I have noticed this as well. But feeling wind gusts on a 600cc supersport bike is going to feel the same as a 250.

It's good to hear how others have reacted to high winds. I was caught off-guard last night by a quick side wind. It pushed the bike over into the next lane before I could react. I just knew I was going to plow into the van 2 lanes over.

Lesson learned. Be prepared for quick gusts when passing by the airport.

well dave, ummm windy days can be a 'pita' or downright scary to ride in!
Im one that has always checked the weather report (daily). Sometimes i just choose NOT to ride the Ninja and ill just take the car.

motorcycles are at mother natures mercy once a strong cross wind or such Plows into you... just hang on! :D

Ill also note this... in my Windy-riding exp, riding 2-UP is Even More Scary! As the Ninjas aerodynamics totally change just from having your gal on the back.
City riding is alil safer, due too buildings and such blocking wind or routing it in different patterns.
Where as highway riding with higher speeds, tend to be more dangerous. Not to mention your kinda forced to ride faster to keep up, then ride a nice MPG friendly 55-60 MPH!
Riding at 55 mph on the highway.. in 'todays world' your more likely to get killed from behind from cars going 80+ MPH then whipping into the slow lane at the ****ing Last sec before their Exit... just to save 10 secs from their ride back home from work.
Rather then chill in the slow lane for 1 mile at 65-70MPH before merging OFF the highway in a safe,cool,slower manner!

(I remember when 70 MPH was fast as hell 15-20 yrs ago and ppl as a whole didnt dare to drive this fast on our highways. Now if your not doing 85+ MPH, youll get ran over! :(:mad::crazyloco: )

yea also as Alex pointed out, there is alil noticable difference from strong cross winds blowing on you during different riding speeds. Ive noticed this also, mostly i think when slowing or (gliding) towards a red light or stop sign waaay ahead. as im cruising at like 35-40 MPH steady speed (cuz i know the light will change to green soon, so No rush to speed up only to have to jam on the brakes...) then get BLASTED by wind, woohoooo...weeeeee! :lol:
compared to riding just abit more, say around 45-55 MPH, the same type of wind blasts.. feel slightly less!

What do you guys do when a huge SEMI is heading toward you on the other side of a 2 lane road at 55+ MPH?

I go into FULL or 3/4 TUCK to Sheild/Stable myself and my Nate as it passes, also for 3 secs afterwards!
Do you guys too? That can be scary, given if that happens on a Open Bridge on a 2 lane road, on a Windy 40+ MPH (gusting) day!

(I remember when 70 MPH was fast as hell 15-20 yrs ago and ppl as a whole didnt dare to drive this fast on our highways. Now if your not doing 85+ MPH, youll get ran over! :(:mad::crazyloco: )

Back in the day wind noise let you know you were going fast. Today in these sealed areo bubbles you can't tell how fast you are going except by the speedo.

Yes I've ridden several larger bikes. I've noticed no WIND differences. The wind blowing on a 250 is going to be the same as a 10R. The RIDE might be smoother as the suspension a ton more adjustable and I have noticed this as well. But feeling wind gusts on a 600cc supersport bike is going to feel the same as a 250.

I totally agree. The key to riding a Ninjette in the wind is to relax and keep the RPM up----around 9K is about right----It will feel like a 600cc supersport. The Ninjette is not happy at anything under 7500RPM. Mine is perfectly content to run 60MPH in 5Th gear.

I totally agree. The key to riding a Ninjette in the wind is to relax and keep the RPM up----around 9K is about right----It will feel like a 600cc supersport. The Ninjette is not happy at anything under 7500RPM. Mine is perfectly content to run 60MPH in 5Th gear.
So when Kelly said"The Green ones are faster" It wasn't BS? :rolleyes:

What do you guys do when a huge SEMI is heading toward you on the other side of a 2 lane road at 55+ MPH?

I go into FULL or 3/4 TUCK to Sheild/Stable myself and my Nate as it passes, also for 3 secs afterwards!
Do you guys too? That can be scary, given if that happens on a Open Bridge on a 2 lane road, on a Windy 40+ MPH (gusting) day!

In my limited experience, I find it helps to make sure you're relaxed and light on the bars. If you're stiff (especially in the arms), any body motion from the wind gets transferred into handlebar motion, and to me it seems to make the situation a billion times worse.

Edit: Looks like Alex beat me to it! Anyhow, I missed the "relax" advice when I first read his post, so maybe it bears repeating :)

Try this...

When you get hit by a wind on one side, keep your foot on the peg but push your knee out into the wind. Here's what happens...

When you get hit on one side by wind, it pushes you in the direction of the wind. But if you put your knee out into the wind, it catches the wind and creates drag almost like a parachute. It will actually counteract the force of the wind pushing you. It really well.

In my limited experience, I find it helps to make sure you're relaxed and light on the bars. If you're stiff (especially in the arms), any body motion from the wind gets transferred into handlebar motion, and to me it seems to make the situation a billion times worse.

Edit: Looks like Alex beat me to it! Anyhow, I missed the "relax" advice when I first read his post, so maybe it bears repeating :)

I am relaxed in the arms! still that doesnt matter.

Try this...

When you get hit by a wind on one side, keep your foot on the peg but push your knee out into the wind. Here's what happens...

When you get hit on one side by wind, it pushes you in the direction of the wind. But if you put your knee out into the wind, it catches the wind and creates drag almost like a parachute. It will actually counteract the force of the wind pushing you. It really well.

That's a technique I use in windy conditions. The previous owner of my bike told me to try that technique and I find it works for me. I feel more stable just having the one knee sticking into the wind. It's worth a try.

I like riding in the wind, it's fun :D
I put my shoulder into it.

My knowledge of single track dynamics is not good enough to explain why...

But I am pretty sure from riding in some nasty gusty cross winds...

To some extent cross wind gusts causes a correcting counter-steer. Or there is some self correction caused by the wind force.

I.E. There seems to be at least some truth to "relax, let it blow you around"

My knowledge of single track dynamics is not good enough to explain why...

But I am pretty sure from riding in some nasty gusty cross winds...

To some extent cross wind gusts causes a correcting counter-steer. Or there is some self correction caused by the wind force.

I.E. There seems to be at least some truth to "relax, let it blow you around"

aahhh, OK.... it took me a minute to understand what you meant (have a cold and a bit loopy), but I got it. You might be right about that.

A couple of weekends ago I was riding with friends in winds of 35-40mph with gusts to 50+. It was brutal. At one point I was leaned over about 20 degrees into a wind from the right front, mostly right, when a 50+ gust hit me. I was doing 70mph on a straight stretch of concrete freeway and the wind made my front tire hop over almost a foot, it was all I could do to keep from low-siding. I later theorized that the vector of the wind on me and my bike essentially made me into a symmetrical airfoil, or wing, and the combined wind velocity of over 100 mph actually generated enough lift that, with the sideforce of the wind, was enough to slip the front tire.

I dropped my speed to less than 60mph and that helped greatly. My riding buddies, all on heavier and more powerful sportbikes, had no problems and left me behind. :(

There were a few sharp curves where the wind blew me to the ouside of the turn despite my leaning into it, and one elevated highway exit ramp where I was curving to the left but leaned over to the right into the wind. That was all kinds of wrong.

I agree with staying loose, and keeping the RPMs up. That is a really good strategy for riding the Ninja regardless of the conditions and expecially when windy. It is frequently gusty in Colorado and that is the strategy I use. I think the only difference the type of bike would make is if it was a lot heavier like a big cruiser maybe.


Practice helps as well.

Lay on the tank with knees in tight, elbows tucked in
resting on your knees. Right peg on balls of foot, and left peg
on the arch for shifting. Keep in the left lane to keep speed up to split the wind
and try to keep distance from vehicles to avoid buffeting!
Steer with feet and legs, and if you have a tank bag you can lay on it proping your helmet too!
In this position I can ride till I have to fill up! Use a tank bag with
bladdar to keep hydrated!
I rode like this with all my camping gear at 85mph and bike was very stable
in the nastiest of crosswinds. If you sit up you can get blown away!

I find I do a little better wearing a backpack. The straps hold my jacket in tight... otherwise it has a tendency to fill up with air a little and be more sail-like.

It has been really windy the last couple days and it was driving me nuts until I tried his suggestions, it made a world of difference.

I tucked down REALLY low, like laying on the tank low, just looking right over the top of the screen. I gripped the tank with my knees, that helped me make sure my arms stayed loose, any OH S**T hang on reactions were with my knees and not my arms. I rolled on a little more throttle and went with it and I went from nerve wracking to having fun almost instantly like flipping a switch it was dramatic.

I think it is mostly the staying LOW and steering with your feet/legs/weight, but also overcoming your natural reactions of hanging on tight and slowing down. It is counter-intuitive to me in this situation to tuck in like I am racing and let her rip but thats basically what I did and it worked well.

Riding in the wind is all a matter of being relaxed and let the wind push you around. Here is a video of a guy at speed (which is like riding in a 170+MPH wind.

http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/59/38/

Ohh, the wind really messes with my head on the 250! Straight at me, it's not so bad, but when a crosswind punches me from the left or right, it's VERY nerve-wracking. I immediately slow down, though I see the concensus seems to be that faster is better. Doesn't feel that way to me, but then I'm just a big chicken-sh*t!

A bad crosswind made me sweat a little the other day. Bad crosswinds should be avoinded. Aircraft wont land if crosswinds are blowing. I wouldnt mind having a little more weight, the 250 gets blown around pretty easily.

Cars have been flipped due to crosswinds. The faster you go in a crosswind, the worse it is.

Riding close behind a b747 as it's engines are spooling up to full throttle is ILL ADVISED!!!! Riding on the hwy with winds under 20kts is just "dancing." :dancecool:

A bad crosswind made me sweat a little the other day. Bad crosswinds should be avoided. Aircraft wont land if crosswinds are blowing. I wouldn't mind having a little more weight, the 250 gets blown around pretty easily.

You're 1/2 right about the planes landing. Runways are designed to follow the prevailing winds, thus reducing the frequency of crosswinds for a given runway. So, say the prevailing wind at an airport tends to come from a heading of, say 90 degrees, the runway would be build at a heading of 90 degrees (and 270 degrees). So, assuming them winds are a blowin' like usual, planes would take off and land into the direction of the wind.... at a heading of 90 degrees. Which, incidentally would be called Rwy 9 in that direction, and Rwy 27 in the opposite direction. Of course if you have parallel runways, they would be Rwy 9L & 9R respectively, triplets add Rwy 9C, you get the point. Some airports do , however, have runways for crosswinds.... but these are likely only to be built if wind from that direction is reasonably common. Notice LAX (KLAX), which is a rather large airport, has no runways for crosswinds..... this is because them winds are always a blowin' from the same direction there. Chicago on the other hand, you know "the windy city" has runways in all sorts of directions. So, say you are landing, there is a light to moderate wind, and you don't have the option of landing into the wind..... you just give that rudder a good kick in the arse, fly sideways-ish ("crab") until right before touch-down when you kick it straight. This is the most common method of landing in crosswinds. There are some great videos of that on youtube. The videos would likely be the more severe ones, as you generally will always use SOME rudder...

Sorry for the completely unnecessary and long winded (no pun intended) explanation of something that wasn't even asked. I needed to come up for air from all that re-jetting reading I have been doing, and feel like I know SOMETHING! I'll call it my therapy for the day (sorry to subject you to it).

Try this...

When you get hit by a wind on one side, keep your foot on the peg but push your knee out into the wind. Here's what happens...

When you get hit on one side by wind, it pushes you in the direction of the wind. But if you put your knee out into the wind, it catches the wind and creates drag almost like a parachute. It will actually counteract the force of the wind pushing you. It really well.

That's textbook. I'll see if I can find the reference. I swear I read that somewhere recently!

Cars have been flipped due to crosswinds. The faster you go in a crosswind, the worse it is.

Guy got flipped off a local high rise bridge recently due to a gust of wind!

james-river-bridge-reopens-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash (http://hamptonroads.com/2010/04/james-river-bridge-reopens-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash)

http://www.virginiadot.org/VDOT/Travel/asset_upload_file464_2210.jpg

Ive read many of articles that stress the fact that a strong crosswind can be fatal. Just like aircraft on a gyroscope. Yes planes are traveling at a higher rate of speed, but once the center axis has been stressed to a certain point your going to go over. Simple laws of physics..

when i worked the as a ramp agent for a commercial airline, I saw a few planes pull out of a landing due to the crosswinds. Pretty cool too watch.

Im afraid your wrong bob.

Crosswind landings on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X_7Xt2ga-s). Some look beyond scary.

when i worked the as a ramp agent for a commercial airline, I saw a few planes pull out of a landing due to the crosswinds. Pretty cool too watch.

If they never landed in crosswinds, you probably wouldn't have seen that much.... they wouldn't have made that initial attempt to end up aborting anyways.


I'm afraid your wrong bob.

How is that? (reaching for textbook) I'm not saying, certainly didn't mean to give the impression, that it is simply no big deal and never an issue.... There is a threshold as to when it just isn't safe, of course... but it is done every day. Planes also do go-arounds all the time for all sorts of reasons, crosswinds can be a common one. I got a little white knuckled last time I flew into Sydney (could have been one of those youtube videos), but the pilot pulled it off, and I am here today. My first memory of learning from my dad about landing in crosswinds was somewhere between age 5 and 10. I come from a family of private pilots, so if I am wrong, I would like to know more specifically where I am wrong so that I can be corrected.... not trying to one-up you here.

Crosswind landings on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X_7Xt2ga-s). Some look beyond scary.

That landing at 1:31 over Hong Kong is amazing. I flew in the AF on C130's for 8 years and crosswind landings always made me appreciate how truly impressive a good pilot is.

Regarding wind, last weekend when I was on the highway/bridges and had some crosswinds i noticed that if I tuck the elbow that is in the direction of where the wind is coming from and stick the opposite elbow out, I felt more stable. I think the opposite elbow was kind of acting as a rudder to counter act the wind pushing me...

I've gotten used to the wind. I travel normal speed, and find I have to lean towards the wind. I also tuck more to limit the surface area.

Yesterday was really windy. As I was going down the freeway I found myself leaning by about 10degrees just to go straight.

If its a hellish windy Texas day I just flip to the V-900 cruiser... that pretty much takes care of that. Really its few and far between when the N-250 won't do the trick.

Rode home yesterday and got hit by a strong gust - 25-30 mph. The first one almost always freaks me out. Relaxing and slowing down a bit are the key things IMHO. I read somewhere that sticking a knee out (on the windward side) helps. Anyone else hear of that technique?

Not to beat a dead horse on the whole "landing in crosswind" sub-topic.... OK, maybe a little. :beatdeadhorse:



http://www.ninjette.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=14&pictureid=3838

I read somewhere that sticking a knee out (on the windward side) helps. Anyone else hear of that technique?

Yes it can help. But it's not a magic bullet that'll make the whole situation bearable. As you get more comfortable with handling the wind, that technique can help in certain conditions.

Thanks.

Had my first spell in very strong winds, got pushed into another lane :eek: fortunately nothing about!

Great advise on here guys, very useful, cheers:thumbup:

Some great advice in this thread, not any that I can see that's incorrect.

I would like to share my take, which might be repetitious to some...

The key factor in wind is relaxing. And make sure to ride faster than the wind. Not just certain parts of your body, but everything.... If you relax enough, the bike moves out from underneath you in a gust, and returns to it's previous state after the gust. Your knee gets drawn out automatically when and where it should. The front tire just seems to do what it's meant to do, steer the bike in a straight line.... It's kind of freaky how easy it is to keep a bike straight in low-mid force gusts....

The problem comes when the cross-wind is greater than your speed. IE: a 50mph cross-wind or gusts when you're traveling at 30mph. If it's a 50mph wind, ride 60mph. If it's an 80mph gust, you'd be best at 90mph, at semi to full tuck, and completely relaxed.

As others have mentioned leaning the wrong way in a turn, leaning left going around a right-hand turn is an experience for sure! One every rider should have at least once!

Personally, I love riding in the wind, it makes a straight road interesting!

Good luck to all ya'lls out there!

I like riding in the wind, it's fun :D
I put my shoulder into it.

:whathesaid:

I haven't found a better way around it other than just clamping on for dear life with my legs. Sometimes the wind requires a constant (but tiny) amount of countersteering for me to actually stay in the lane.

I find that I hate tucking down for crosswinds. It feels like I have less control over the bike when tucked, and I certainly don't want to be feeling that when the bike is being pushed around.

If I've found myself riding in high winds, I have learned that riding slower doesn't help the situation. If you have a choice to be riding 45 mph or 60 mph, for example, the effect of crosswinds is more prevalent at 45 compared to 60. Doesn't mean you should go faster than you feel comfortable, but a little speed does provide more inertia in the direction you want to go, as well as more gyroscopic stability from the bike.

I have to agree with Alex on this one, I remember a few times when it got really windy out, I'd be alright at higher speeds... but coming off the highway onto a 70 kph zone I'd be going **** **** ****! I can't stop now! it's too windy! :D

The 250 is farrr far far better than the 125 (honda) in the wind, I'm guessing its the extra weight

I have yet to experienced harsh wind while riding (Just bought a bike a few months ago) but the road i take to school can get pretty bad, it even pushs my beefy car around. I have to go between two fields for about two miles with a speed limit of 55 and the cops loooove to chill with their radar throughout that stretch. I recently bought a smoked double bubble windscreen and i love tucking under it. It is much better than the stock (many others agree from looking at the reviews). It looks good and really helps with the wind. For the people who are always riding in wind I would definitely suggest it.

Just my thought :)

Since we are kinda bumping an old thread, I figured I'd add some more.

If you relax enough, the bike moves out from underneath you in a gust, and returns to it's previous state after the gust.
+1000 . Relax, and remember you don't have to panic unless you're in serious danger of hitting something. I've had gusts blow me all the way past the doubles yellows, but I just let the bike correct itself and Im good to go.

Remember, in a cross-wind, you are sitting on top of a 3x6' sail that weighs 400lbs. Fighting to keep it going exactly strait is only going to freak you out as you realize it's pretty much impossible :P .

Another tip, for general riding, would be to stay toward the windward side. That is, if you are going East and the wind is coming from the South, stay toward the far South side of the lane. That way if a gust hits you, you've got a good 6 or 7 feet of wiggle room before you even need to begin worrying.

I've always ridden bikes a lot in windy Oklahoma, and the effect is actually similar, though of course less pronounced. So, it wasn't completely alien to me. However, I got used to it pretty quickly after I realized the bike will return to where you want it to go if with nothing but the slightest bar pressure. Now I'll ride with one hand in 40mph cross-gusts, leaning 10-degrees off center, like "whatevs, y'all." :P


Your knee gets drawn out automatically when and where it should. The front tire just seems to do what it's meant to do, steer the bike in a straight line.... It's kind of freaky how easy it is to keep a bike straight in low-mid force gusts....

Yup! I don't recall my knees every doing anything weird, but yeah once you get used to it the bike just seems to know where its going.

Old thread but good thread. May as well paste my posts on the topic in.
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Here are some posts from another forum you might find interesting on bike performance in cross winds. This is a little tough to follow without all the other posts debating the topic back and forth but this should be a good start to the conversation here.
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Let's talk about the riding dynamics of cross winds. Side winds can move you off line in many different ways. By pushing the entire bike straight to the side. This is probably the only situation where increasing the total mass of the bike/ rider/ luggage will help. I believe other mechanisms of cross winds that actually cause the bike to steer will be more disruptive. Cross winds pushing on the side area of the bike/ rider/ luggage that is above the center of gravity of the roll axis will cause the bike to lean and actually turn off line. Worse yet, blowing the rider's head and torso to one side of an upright, yet comfy riding position, such as on the CBR250R, again makes the bike turn the wrong way. The next thing that probably happens is the rider will push back with their arms which applies a counter steering manuver to the handle bars which makes the bike lean the wrong way even further. All of this happens in a domino effect blowing you off line. Super Sport bikes with their ultra low and narrow clip on handle bars place the rider in a better position to resist all of this in the de facto riding postion they impart by lowering the rider's upper body, and so, the side wind center of pressure, by more firmly bracing the rider due to much more weight on the arms, and, by greatly reducing the leverage of unwanted counter steering commands because of the narrow bars. But who wants to ride in stop and go traffic or on a four hour highway trip in that position when you can have bars that let you sit up to get a better view of the car that is about to pull out in front of you from the side street, or, just to stretch out once in a while. Many of you may think it is dangerous or embarrassing to ride while laying on the tank but I feel very alert and safe on the CBR250R in this position and all of the perceived short commings of low power and light tires/ total mass, vanish when you do. The bike will roll on from 65 mph to 80 in order to pass with great ease because you are wasting less power to push forward through the air resistance. Also, it is my experience that the ill effects cross winds are completely negated. What I see with sidewinds while commuting on the highway is that when you lay on the tank, you accomplish two things. The center of pressure of the side area including the excellent faring, wheels, and your body, is lowered to the point that it is actually lower than the cg on the roll axis which causes the wind to push more on the bottom of the bike/ rider, than the top, forcing the bike to steer itself into the cross wind. It is an eerily magic sensation and very addictive. Also, the mass of your torso above the center of gravity on the roll axis is anchored to the tank so you don't get blown into leaning off of the bike the wrong way and you don't have to counter push on the wrong end of the bars to stabilize yourself. Honda did a great job designing the ergonomics of the tank shape. It is very comfortable to lay on and works perfectly in this position to take some weight off of the seat and arms for hours of riding comfort and provide a magic carpet ride that couldn't care less for cross winds.
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I finally got a good explanation of the mechanism responsible for the ability of a good motorcycle like the CBR250R to actually lean it's self into a cross wind with no rider input. It seems it is as simple as the action of the side load on the trail of the front steering geometry. Ken Fry writes

"Yes, most bikes are self-correcting. A gust causes the steering axis to translate away from the wind side. (The gyro effect of the rear wheel tends to restrain the bike's rolling more than it prevents the frame from yawing, because of the leverages involved. The frame yaws, and the steering head translates.) The contact patch, due to trail, is behind the extension of the steering axis. Therefore, in a crosswind from the left, the steering axis moves slightly to the right. The contact patch is then slightly to the left of the steering axis, meaning that the bike is steering itself to the right. This banks the bike to the left, into the crosswind.

You can take your hands off the bars entirely, and this feature works just fine (provided you don't have a bike prone to tank slappers)

If you really freeze your muscles and clamp onto the handlebars with a death grip, you can defeat this built-in trait. Taking the weight off the grips by tucking and putting your chest on the tank makes the effect more pronounced.

On some bikes, cranking in a lot of steering damper will interfere with this self- correction, and the bike will tend to wander."
Thanks Ken.
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More related ramblings from another forum:
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Motorcycle aerodynamics, a slippery and windy, slope? - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com
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I am not a suspension designer but I can tell you this from riding 6,000 miles this year. Most of it on relatively straight divided highway at 65mph and often in side wind conditions. My motorcycle is very noticeably self correcting in side winds. I could demonstrate this to you "no handed" by laying on the tank and momentarily letting go. But you have to lay on the tank while riding to get the best effect which most people find self conscious or uncomfortable. Other riders suggest "riding with your knees" to take the weight and stiffness of your upper body off of the handle bars. This helps free up the steering but doesn't work quite as well. Maybe this is why you haven't personally ever noticed it.
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If your upper body is sitting high and free from the bike as most people do, it will spoil the effect that the steering geometry has to roll the motorcycle into the side wind. Cross winds pushing on the side area of the bike/ rider/ luggage that is above the center of gravity of the roll axis will cause the bike to lean over and actually turn off line the wrong way. Worse yet, blowing the rider's head and torso to one side of an upright, yet comfy riding position of a standard bike, pushes the rider out of position from over the balance line which has made the system lean and turn the wrong way. The next thing that probably happens is that the rider will try push their upper body back over the bike against the wind with their far side arm which applies a counter steering manuver to the handle bars. The wrong way. Which makes the bike lean the wrong way even further. All of this happens in a domino effect very quickly, blowing you off line. If you sit up.
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Super Sport bikes with their ultra low and narrow clip on handle bars place the rider in a better position to avoid all of this in the de facto riding postion they impart by lowering the rider's upper body, and so, the side wind center of pressure. And further, reducing the leverage that the side wind has to push the rider's upper body off the bike. My CBR250R offers the best of both worlds with high, wide bars for sitting up in traffic, and, perfect ergonomics to lay down on the tank to get out of the wind in order to let the suspension use it's trail to lean the bike into the wind.
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To answer your questions:
Motorcycle dynamics of turning and balance are very complicated.
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Bicycle and motorcycle dynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Motorcycles have trail. The contact patch of the front tire is behind the steering axis. When the side wind pushes the whole bike to the right, the contact patch is stuck to the road behind the steering axis. The steering axis, which is in front of the patch, is free to move to the right more than the contact patch which is stuck to the road. The wheel has just torqued and steered to the right. Which causes a counter steering lean of the bike to the left through the combination of gyroscopic precession leaning the the wheel,
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Precession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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and the tire steering out to the right from under the cg on the roll axis which stayed where it was.
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Camber thrust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Cornering force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The motorcycle has just leaned to the left into the wind. Automatically. The same as if you had consciously pulled on the right handle bar to initiate a counter steering maneuver. If the center of pressure of the side area of the rider/motorcycle is below the cg of the roll axis, this would also tend to lean the bike into the wind. Or at least stop the distribution of the wind pressure from fighting the roll force of the counter steering trail if the wind pressure is at least neutral to the cg.
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Trail also tends to make the bike stand up from a lean. When the bike leans to the left, there is an increasing vector of gravitational force pulling on the left side of the bike. To the side of the steering axis. Which is again free to move more than the patch. Causing a counter steering torque to the left which makes the bike lean and steer it's tires back under the bike until it is upright again.
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The more the bike leans, the less area is presented to the side wind and, the more gravitational force is applied to the trail to make the bike stand up. Careful design has made a nice balance in the amount, and vertical distribution of the side area of the CBR250R, and the amount of trail, in order to balance the forces so the bike "knows how much to lean" into a side wind.
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It was very windy yesterday. A perfect day to experiment and experience the profound ability of the CBR250R to self correct it's line in gusty side winds. I had been challenged on another forum to prove that I am not subconsciously steering the bike as it magically leans itself into the wind by riding no handed. It still works just the same. I still don't have a camera but will post some video proof eventually when I get one. When gusts of side wind hit the bike, the nose stays right on line while the wheels only, seem to ride out from under you WITH the wind to lean the top of the bike INTO the wind by the just right amount. I have been asking all of the riders I hang out with and am surprised that very few have ever taken notice of this. Maybe because it works much better if you lower and anchor yourself by riding on the tank. Some people vehemently argue the opposite saying that you must always counter steer the bike to actively fight the wind at all times. Not so for me. It is actually fun to go out on windy days. Riding a really aerodynamic motorcycle at speed is not unlike flying in a light aircraft. To be connected to the wind and be a part of it all and let the bike work it's magic.

Here's an interesting photo showing how a bike automatically leans into a 50 mph side wind blast coming out of the fans at the left.
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http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg615/sendler2112/50mphSideWindTest002.jpg
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LOL - Look at the middle panel. Most of the observers are all running for cover. :p

I think I have it now, after being thrown off the road by a big gust of wind, I have been afraid to ride on windy days. Today if was pretty windy and I thought I have been practicing my countersteering ALOT and I am ready now to face my demons. So this morning we went out, I was real nervous, I kept telling myself if I don't get back on my bike on a windy day, I might as well hang it up and get rid of it. We had some really nice gusts of wind coming from both sides every now and then and the bike and I just teamed up and did it. :thumbup: I was actually countersteering thru the gusts and I didn't even realize it until we stopped and I had to ask if there were gusts similar to the one that blew me off the road, and yes there were. I am going to keep going on windy days and not let it stop me anymore -- BRING IT ON WIND GUSTS!!!:D

I had an incident not long ago that taught me a very valuable lesson about riding in the wind. My bike, although it's a 500, is not a heavy bike and it seems to me that the wind really affects it. One this particular day, we were riding on a highway I'd not been on the bike with before, and it was WINDY. Eventually I got so freaked out, I exited the highway in tears, and I told Craig to go without me. Of course he wouldn't, so after awhile I got back on. Here is the lesson: RELAX. RELAX. RELAX. I found out (I know, duh) that the bike responds to body language....like a horse. Its hard to explain exactly, but basically.....the motorcycle acts like you. If you're stiff with terror, it is SO much harder to control. If you're loose and relaxed,the bike does what it naturally does. Yes, you still have to countersteer, but test it out....it really works.

I know, not news.....so sue me!

A tense rider is like an overtightened steering damper. It kills the self correcting ability of the front end geometry on the highway during side wind blasts which will start the correction much faster than a rider can observe the problem and consciously take corrective action. Crouch down on the tank and grip with your knees to take all of the weight off of the bars. Let the bike roll and wander a little and don't try to fight every little movement. It will lean itself into the wind. If this isn't enough then you can countersteer and hang your knee and shoulders into the windward side to correct even more. Stay on the road! Even if you feel you are doing a maximum lean corner just to go straight.

A tense rider is like an overtightened steering damper. .

Yup. This also reminds me of putting your weight on your bars when in a tight turn. I make a point of squeezing with my knees on cloverleafs, and feel an immediate difference if my setup and posture is wrong (often is).

Yes I know what you mean, I kept feeling myself tense up and noticed I had a "death grip" on my bars every now and then. I would loosen up, get relaxed in the shoulders and let my bike lead me thru the wind. It does make a difference when your tense, I could feel the difference.

Back on page one, two years ago, I stated something to the affect of relax and slow down in crosswinds. Experience has taught me that slowing down may be incorrect.

I find that relaxing and maintaining your speed might be the best course in high winds. Motorcycles become more stable at speed and slowing down might get you blown around a bit more.

Jeff

I slow down if caught in a bad thunderstorm and the water is stacking up deep. Sometimes you have to decide how fast you really want to be going when you hit the ground.

I don't think I am ready for rain or bad storms, I try to check the weather if I know I am going to be out for a while, any chance of rain. . . no riding for me, I feel I need more experience for that ;)

So today got out of class and went on the freeway to go drop something off to my girlfriend about 30 minutes from my house and wow the wind was blowing so hard i was leaning a good 30 degrees to keep my bike straight. Needless to say i got off the next exit and went home as the wind was way too strong.

So my question to everyone who has high wind expierence, how do you ride in the wind, was i correct in leaning that much? Also how windy is too windy to be unsafe, i checked and it says the wind is at 32 mph and i figure the wind blast push it to 40mph

Lighten the death grip on the bars, relax your elbow and shoulders, keep your speeds in check, and have some fun leaning :) That's what I do. I tend to keep the motorcycle in the garage when it's massively windy though; big winds usually mean storms where I live.

Cool thanks for the advice, ive gotten a lot better in relaxing my arms and hands and using my thighs to support myself but still catch myself putting my weight on the bars. It was fun leaning definitely had a blast, but the wind gusts were way to strong for my level of expierence.

Gets very windy around here but it's usually not bad enough to make me not want to ride in it. When it gets really windy, I do generally try to avoid the highway though. Not necessarily because I'm scared I'll get blown over but more just because with wind, the acceleration isn't the same and everything just feels sluggish. Not sure if it'll really help but my #1 suggestion is practice, practice, practice. Like I've said before, I love riding the highways so I'm pretty used to the effects of wind on the bike so when it's really windy, it's nothing new. Just keep it relaxed and you'll be fine.

Do what Chone said..
A word of advice, in high winds besides that, would be to make sure you park it somewhere where the wind is blocked. Strong winds can knock it over while parked.

/merged with main "wind" thread

Light on the bars. Tuck in. Go faster, but not to the point of freakout. Know your problematic areas.
I usually take tollway back home in rush hour and have to take an overpass to my town. The overpass rises good 50 meters in the air above everything and is a prime spot for getting bitchslapped by wind. In wind gust 20mph+ situations I avoid it like a plague, after having been pushed out wide once on it (from left lane into right lane, right behind a car)

I ride a windy ass highway every week. I just flatten to the tank, keep on the throttle and counter-lean the best I can.