Need to upgrade the engine performance for my 250R 08, but i can's found the big bore kit in the market. Do you have one? Or someone else can do that?

Haven't seen one for the Ninja 250. Here's a link to Wiseco big bore kits, which they make for a whole pile of different Kawasaki streetbikes (and other makes), but no kit for the 250:

http://www.procycle-online.com/bigbore/bbstreet_kaw.htm

When people go about improving the ninja 250's engine performance, for street use at least, typical mods include intake improvements/exhaust improvements/timing, rather than wholesale component replacement. There's no technical reason why more couldn't be done, but at some point the costs would be hard to justify instead of choosing a different bike to start with more power.

Need to upgrade the engine performance for my 250R 08, but i can's found the big bore kit in the market. Do you have one? Or someone else can do that?


Many people don't know this, buuuuuuut the ex 500 motor fits in the ninja 250 frame with no alterations. I know this true on the older ones, I believe true on the newer ones. Just look up part numbers for the motor mounts.
This was a fast mod to get under the insurance laws when the 250 first came out.
Enjoy!!

Many people don't know this, buuuuuuut the ex 500 motor fits in the ninja 250 frame with no alterations. I know this true on the older ones, I believe true on the newer ones. Just look up part numbers for the motor mounts.
This was a fast mod to get under the insurance laws when the 250 first came out.
Enjoy!!

Like they said...Pictures or it ain't true :thumbup: :D

Like they said...Pictures or it ain't true :thumbup: :D

I don't have pics. But I did it with a 98 250 and a crashed 500.
It was when I was working for a local dealer. We checked the mounts and stuff, same part numbers.
That's all I can tell ya. Sorry, no pics.
I don't even have pics for the custom frame and body work I've done.
And none of the drag bike frames I made. Sorry again.
Go online to riva motorsports in key largo Florida. They have a parts breakdown for all the bikes. I think prices along with part numbers
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Jean hes right the motor does fit. I just shipped a complete assembly over to indo for a guy to install there.

Jean hes right the motor does fit. I just shipped a complete assembly over to indo for a guy to install there.

Which is awesome because now he can get around that silly tax limitation that they have to deal with there (makes anything larger than a 250 not affordable).

Sweet...one of the US folks need to do the conversion. I saw some complete used motor on eBay for $500. I'd love to have one although the mech skill is over my head :D
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Jean its not super hard to do actually just takes patience. CZroe the tax there is ridiculous a new zx14 cost $45000. But we found a way around that:thumbup:

Many people don't know this, buuuuuuut the ex 500 motor fits in the ninja 250 frame with no alterations. I know this true on the older ones, I believe true on the newer ones. Just look up part numbers for the motor mounts.
This was a fast mod to get under the insurance laws when the 250 first came out.
Enjoy!!

that's bullllll dookey

You can go for high compression pistons in the stock bore . 12.5 to 1 will certainly perk things up . or BEET racing has a 265 kit. You just need to bore the stock cylinder out to fit. Should not cost much for machine work .Of course a free flow exhaust and filter with jetting and tuning will be required to get the most out of either setup
http://www.beet.co.jp/english/kawasaki/ninja250r/index.html

Racerx, all that beet and bore will be load of dough...just drop in a 500 for much cheaper if it fits... You'll get more torque and power.
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You can go for high compression pistons in the stock bore . 12.5 to 1 will certainly perk things up . or BEET racing has a 265 kit. You just need to bore the stock cylinder out to fit. Should not cost much for machine work .Of course a free flow exhaust and filter with jetting and tuning will be required to get the most out of either setup
http://www.beet.co.jp/english/kawasaki/ninja250r/index.htmlHow much room do we have to play with do you know.

Beet makes a 285 kit as well. NOTE you must send them your cylinders for machining if ordering the kit. This makes the kit unattractive to people in the US. But I have seen people in Asia acquire the kits which makes this one giant CF.

The least expensive and most cost effective upgrade is the rider's skillset. As an added bonus, it'll transfer to any future cycle you own.

Racer X is 'dead-on' for the the 1%ers looking to squeak everything out of the 250 class.

I am one of those squeakers. But it is only because of the business being connected to the 250.

Well if it's been confirmed that the 500 motor fits in the 250 frame, then I got news for you. That would mean the 650 motor will fit too. Believe it or not, but the outter dimensions of the 650 motor are smaller then the 500 making it lighter and slimmer. Imagine putting one of those puppies in the 250 frame.......... 71hp with about 48lb-ft of torque. :eek:

Well if it's been confirmed that the 500 motor fits in the 250 frame, then I got news for you. That would mean the 650 motor will fit too. Believe it or not, but the outter dimensions of the 650 motor are smaller then the 500 making it lighter and slimmer. Imagine putting one of those puppies in the 250 frame.......... 71hp with about 48lb-ft of torque. :eek:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I_want_to_put_a_bigger_engine_in_my_Ninja

Why wouldn't you just buy a Ninja 650R then?

Bc then there would be nothing to talk about if everyone just buy a 650. :D
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well there's really nothing but talk..notice how there's no video's or photos's just empty talk

well there's really nothing but talk..notice how there's no video's or photos's just empty talk

aint nobody do no nothing...wutz there to picee and vizdoo? :D

Many people don't know this, buuuuuuut the ex 500 motor fits in the ninja 250 frame with no alterations. I know this true on the older ones, I believe true on the newer ones. Just look up part numbers for the motor mounts.
This was a fast mod to get under the insurance laws when the 250 first came out.
Enjoy!!

:worthlesswithoutpic

We should do a Build as a Forum. Find a salvaged bike with next to no damage and put in the 650 motor then whoever pitched in is eligible for a raffle. That would be sweet. No one would ever go for it but it would be sweet.

Subscribed. Sounds like it would be a fun winter project to do just because.

I was going to put a 250 engine into a 500 frame. it is bigger and would give plenty of room to work with . As far as hiding from the wind and building a fairing. It is way different. If I could of the amount of fabrication it would take to do that . I would also have the skill and tools to just make a frame. . It can be done no problem . But it is not a bolt in at all . This is some photos from EBay just to have a look

does this go for both pre gens and post gens?

Very interested in this. I bet I could piss quite a few people off on tracks or drag strips if they're beaten by what seems to be a 250R. I'd love to say my painted parts gave me all that extra horsepower.

Why wouldn't you just buy a Ninja 650R then?

The ugly Banana Seat, the sports touring look, the insurance costs, and the sheer pleasure i'd have in watching people's jaws drop when they see what a "250" can do.

I love sleepers.

I have some pictures of a build I just finished- I did a 2009 250 chassis / 1990 EX500 engine build I'll have to post some soon. The older engine does NOT bolt right in to the newer chassis. I'm not sure if the same goes for the older 250 chassis, but I had to make mounts and use spacers to get the offset correct.

Sweet. Pics plz :D

This is interesting. I happen to have an 09 250r and a 91 ex500. I've read that a stock ex500 motor can twist a stock ex500 frame when pushed hard at the track. So the 250r frame might not be that bad. I'll have to look the two carefully.

I'll probably still just rebuild my 500 separately anyway. I actually like the 250 the way it is, after the needle shim and snorkel removal that is. But if I can find a cheap 250r frame for a build out, I may put the 500 in that. Save on insurance :)

Bob

We've done this already.

66i5A1VIapM

How does it ride?

Thx
Bob

Kawasaki makes a Ninja 400 for the European market. I wonder if these engines could be installed in the 250 frame or fit the cylinders/heads to the 250 Ninja engine.

Are you talking about the new ninja 400 or the old I4 zx400 engines? The new ninja 400 is the same dimensions as the ninja 650 engine. I highly doubt you could easily get an I-4 engine in the 250 chassis. Plus the biggest issue is that the frame just was not built for a high hp motor

Kawasaki makes a Ninja 400 for the European market. I wonder if these engines could be installed in the 250 frame or fit the cylinders/heads to the 250 Ninja engine.

Yeah, the new 400R is just a sleeved-down 650 for legal purposes.


I do wonder how much these frames could handle, though.

http://sn129w.snt129.mail.live.com/att/GetAttachment.aspx?tnail=0&messageId=c05759a2-e953-11df-a358-001e0bcae936&Aux=14|0|8CD4B77AA60CCD0||0|0|0|0||&maxwidth=220&maxheight=160&size=AttSorry for the delay in posting pictures, but you should be able to see the difference in engine sizes and the space required to fit the 500.http://sn129w.snt129.mail.live.com/att/GetAttachment.aspx?tnail=0&messageId=d964d137-e953-11df-ac47-001e0bcc4980&Aux=14|0|8CD4B77C64E7550||0|0|0|0||&maxwidth=220&maxheight=160&size=Att

Had to make rear motor mount plates and offset spacers, complete header (y-pipe and mid-pipe), radiator mounts, etc... All kinds of stuff. All without welding to, or otherwise disturbing the 250 chassis. Used the 500 harness and 250 controls and gauges. Looks stock. Isn't. If you look at the other builds on YouTube and in other various locations, the absence of attention to detail is apparent. Using a piece of flat stock to hold the fairings apart so the exhaust doesn't touch? Are we in Junior High WoodWorking? Not trying to step on anyone's toes, but this isn't exactly an extracurricular art class. The job should be done properly or the wrenches should be put away.

nice Job
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Much appreciated.

Many people don't know this, buuuuuuut the ex 500 motor fits in the ninja 250 frame with no alterations. I know this true on the older ones, I believe true on the newer ones. Just look up part numbers for the motor mounts.
This was a fast mod to get under the insurance laws when the 250 first came out.
Enjoy!!

What year would this ex500 motor be. I would like to hunt this baby down and replace my stock 250r motor that got severe water damage.

As far as I can tell, no ninja 500 engine is a direct fit into any ninja 250 chassis. I've done a 1990 500 engine into a 2009 250 chassis. Definitely not a direct fit. Some people may tell you that it may be a bolt-in affair, but they most likely haven't done it. There should be pictures posted on this thread, but if you need to see more, lemme know.

Thanks for replying to my question. If doing this swap, what are the things I would have to change on the stock 250r set-up to get the ex500 running. (Electronic/electrical/gauges/sensors/cables/etc.) Or would everything just reconnect to th ex500. (I doubt it will, but hope).

As far as I can tell, no ninja 500 engine is a direct fit into any ninja 250 chassis. I've done a 1990 500 engine into a 2009 250 chassis. Definitely not a direct fit. Some people may tell you that it may be a bolt-in affair, but they most likely haven't done it. There should be pictures posted on this thread, but if you need to see more, lemme know.

I'd like pics :D

Do any of the mounting points bolt up? I know that the frames are different so you need to create mounting points for the front of the ex500 motor.

Also for anyone else thinking about this, the 1st generation ex500 motors have bad flywheels and cam chain tensioners. So if you are looking for a motor to try this out with try to get a newer motor, otherwise you're in for another ~$130 worth of parts to upgrade the 1st gen motor.

Bob

There isnt a replacement for displacement (negating boost or n20) to be as cliche as possible. even with significant mods the 250 motor will be just what it is, a capable motor in its class.

Adding a 500 motor is logical for those who want to play with the bike. People always told me I should swap in a 4V 4.6 or buy a Cobra when I was chasing the 600rwhp mark in my Mustang. I sure could have but I wanted to do it with my car and my motor. I succeded and it was very rewarding and informative.

The same goes here. I would really like to see a kit developed and a streamlined process created to allow this to be a common step for those looking to up the ante without stepping onto a new bike. I would love to start this if I had a spare Ninja and a motor as I have everything I would need to accomplish this.

Matt & Chadwick, are the mounts used easy to manufacture? What about some other details about the swap? I'm sure with a collaborative effort a kit could come together that you could sell.

As for me I would only do this to say I did. I always have something else with more power if I desire to use it. The Ninja is perfect for what it is and what I use it for.

I agree with u 100% darC. The mods that I know of for are little 250r's are some what of a joke compared to what's out there for the guys with bigger bikes. I would never dream of getting a different bike just because of mods, I love my bike. You always hear people say, " if u want more power just buy a bigger bike". Well were is the fun in that. When u own a machine, and u do what no one else has done to it, its a truly amazing feeling. This type of breed of people died a long time ago.... to bad. I want a 250r ninja with a 500 engine, not a new bike! Dont get me wrong, I love the 250r motor. But mine died after 6,000 miles from water damage (long story, my fault... I had a dumb moment) so why not a better time to try this mod out. I'm on a mission go make this happen, wish me luck. Anyone with knowledge on this swap please speak up and post, I would appreciate it.

+1I agree with u 100% darC. The mods that I know of for are little 250r's are some what of a joke compared to what's out there for the guys with bigger bikes. I would never dream of getting a different bike just because of mods, I love my bike. You always hear people say, " if u want more power just buy a bigger bike". Well were is the fun in that. When u own a machine, and u do what no one else has done to it, its a truly amazing feeling. This type of breed of people died a long time ago.... to bad. I want a 250r ninja with a 500 engine, not a new bike! Dont get me wrong, I love the 250r motor. But mine died after 6,000 miles from water damage (long story, my fault... I had a dumb moment) so why not a better time to try this mod out. I'm on a mission go make this happen, wish me luck. Anyone with knowledge on this swap please speak up and post, I would appreciate it.

each to their own but i have a 200 hp bike and i'm really digging the slowness of the 250r-it's kind of liberating -i 'm throwing a few go fast things at it but only a few people in the world can get the most out of a superbike-it's a blast wringing that little bike out and making the most of your riding ability -i'm, new to the 250r and maybe i will sick of the lack of power ,but right now its a blast

just bought new pistons for the bike, it will take her up a little, just 265cc, and im getting the compression upped, and port the engine at the same time~

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/P1070464r.jpg

those are the new pistons~ just picked them up on saturday.

the 1st bike that my mechanic is working on should be done mid of this week with the new piston, and then he will work on my bike. hope it works out good :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/P1070458r.jpg

im so so so tempted to buy the CR carbs... but it costs like $650 here tho :( while on sudko's website they are selling i think the same one for like $455, aff, damn import taxes into this country...

just bought new pistons for the bike, it will take her up a little, just 265cc, and im getting the compression upped, and port the engine at the same time~

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/P1070464r.jpg

those are the new pistons~ just picked them up on saturday.

the 1st bike that my mechanic is working on should be done mid of this week with the new piston, and then he will work on my bike. hope it works out good :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/P1070458r.jpg

im so so so tempted to buy the CR carbs... but it costs like $650 here tho :( while on sudko's website they are selling i think the same one for like $455, aff, damn import taxes into this country...

What are the advantage of this carb ? and also, will those piston will fit directly into our motor ?

subscribed.

the piston diameter is slightly bigger, thus the slight increase in volume.

means that they need to bore up the cylinders a little.

so its not just going to be a plug and play replacement.

regarding the carb, these CR carbs dont use a vacuum slide which has a slight delay in the reaction time to raise the sliders. when you open the throttle up, it controls the slides directly, giving a more responsive feel.

i believe RacerX is using a CR carb, not sure what size though, maybe the CR31? or one of the bigger ones~

I am running the CR31s .They are great .Sooo easy to tune.Jet or needle changes are done in seconds.The lack of a vacuum slide means you have to ride like a race bike should be ridden .Smooth throttle inputs .You can't just wack the throttle below 7000 rpm.But when the engine is boiling and you run through. The gears at 10000 rpm plus. That is when these carbs shine.

I have a cylinder that is damaged from rust.The bike sat out in the rain before I got it. I was looking at JE Pistons. They make forged 12.5 to 1 over size pistons that bring it up to 265cc . I don't know the cost .

@ Eric, just in case your interested, these pistons cost me just under $90 for the pair. (excluding the rings, which i need to buy separately).

im not sure what the JE ones cost, but if your interested to experiment around with an old left over engine, i could send you a pair of these to try out.

they are locally made here in indonesia i believe. but supposedly using decent alloy. good enough that the OEM Kawasaki is endorsing them as an original part.

the mechanic im using also told me that this brand is quite good, he has used them on race bikes (mopeds, lol) and they hold out the thrashing they get really well. ive asked him about bore up, and/or increased compression ratio since a while, and he has told me to wait till this company releases the piston, since the other locally available brands are not good enough (locally made) or way too expensive (imports like JE i guess).

ill post a dyno graph of the other ninja that he is still working on once he reassembles it and does a final run. im expecting that its possibly gonna be over 35 Hp if all goes well :rolleyes:

regarding the CR carbs... drool... sigh~ drool... i think ill have to buy it and not tell my GF how much it costs. otherwise shes gonna think ive gone even crazy-er!

btw, Eric, did you pay the Sudko website price over there? like $455 for your CR31's? i wonder if i can find a victim thats coming back to bali soon who could maybe hand carry it, lol... would save me almost $200!

did your package include all the required parts to tune the carbs? i am not really familiar with CR carbs, but im guessing they also have different main jets, pilot jets, needle positions etc like the vacuum carbs?

thnx in advance for the info~ and yeah, i think i did ask you about these carbs in the past on another thread, but im terrible with the search engine on the forums, lol and i might be asking some different questions now too ;)

when i went back to the mechanic last week (haven't started work on my bike yet) i compared the original piston from the bike hes working on now, with the new ones i bought, there is like a 1 or was it 2 mm increase in the diameter, and the top end/head of the piston comes out more, which creates the higher compression ratio compared to the stock piston. plus the fact that there is also a slightly larger volume in the actual piston chamber.

i wonder what compression ratio this will push it up to.

there seems to be a shortage on good piston rings here at the moment. they had to keep delaying the other bike because they couldnt find piston rings, and now they are still waiting to find me a set... sigh~

was really curious to find out what kind of improvement (i hope there will be some, lol) i will get with this mod + porting, etc.

gotta sit tight and wait for these piston rings now :(

Hope it all works out well for ya. DYNO THAT BABY. Im interested.
I wont tear the motor apart for 15cc's. BUT 15cc a piston would get me thinking. Give me a nice little bump in compression and a new cam or 2, and some head work and we would be talking turkey. Doubt theres room for that kind of bore in the motor, but I can dream anyway.
Imagine a ninja 280.

well the piston i was hoping to use is a FAIL, lol....

thankfully it was tested on some other bike and not mine.

after 2 or 3 weeks of messing about and trying different settings, alll they were able to gain out of these new pistons is a -2Hp (yeah, it lost power, rofl).

they expect that its due to the low quality material used... since as far as the shape is concerned, it should have been good. bigger bore (64mm instead of 62) and a slightly bigger head, increasing the compression ratio. anyhow, im sure there is lots and lots of research required to be able to build pistons that gain power over stock, something that this manufacturer obviously doesnt have enough of.

the mechanic then confirmed with three other workshops that they were getting similar results using these pistons (ie. drop of power).

soo.... i guess ill just leave the pistons alone, and get the engine ported and re-tuned for now, lol that should already add some ponies into the small stampede.

now im looking into the JE pistons. and wonder.... what piston would be best to use out of their available ninja 250 pistons (they have 5 to choose from!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/JEPistons.jpg

282cc... mmm...mmm...mm... anyone know if that is possible to bore up with the original sleeve? or does it need a totally new/replaced piston sleve thinggy? lol, forgot what its called :rolleyes:

back to square one, research time, yey!

:o

JE pistons informed me that we need to replace the sleeves if you want to use the 282cc pistons, so im gonna avoid doing that and keep the original sleeve, and probably go with the 265cc pistons. at least the compression ratio will go up to 12.5:1, which would already be an improvement on its own.

next step~ buying it and getting it brought half way across the globe to lil Bali, hehe :)

PS, eric told me he is using the 13:1 compression pistons, with the stock bore. no wonder hes able to pull off those sweet speed records :D although i think he went a little trigger happy with the NOS a couple runs back and brought the forged piston to its melting point, hehe...

make sure keep us up to date ;]

JE pistons informed me that we need to replace the sleeves if you want to use the 282cc pistons, so im gonna avoid doing that and keep the original sleeve, and probably go with the 265cc pistons. at least the compression ratio will go up to 12.5:1, which would already be an improvement on its own.

next step~ buying it and getting it brought half way across the globe to lil Bali, hehe :)

PS, eric told me he is using the 13:1 compression pistons, with the stock bore. no wonder hes able to pull off those sweet speed records :D although i think he went a little trigger happy with the NOS a couple runs back and brought the forged piston to its melting point, hehe...

I traced my problem to a faulty injector. After having some problems with preignition on the right side I tested the system . I was not getting any fuel flow from the right side. I sent them the system and they confirmed it.
That means I ran 122 with 10 hp on the left side and an engine damaging dry shot to the right side.
I have it sorted now and am rebuilding the engine with 13 to 1 JE pistons again. But I will also do a LOT of small things to prevent detonation.
Sorry for the thread jack.

well the piston i was hoping to use is a FAIL, lol....

thankfully it was tested on some other bike and not mine.

after 2 or 3 weeks of messing about and trying different settings, alll they were able to gain out of these new pistons is a -2Hp (yeah, it lost power, rofl).

they expect that its due to the low quality material used... since as far as the shape is concerned, it should have been good. bigger bore (64mm instead of 62) and a slightly bigger head, increasing the compression ratio. anyhow, im sure there is lots and lots of research required to be able to build pistons that gain power over stock, something that this manufacturer obviously doesnt have enough of.


Wayan, I don't think it's the quality of material, but the piston itself. The picture speaks a thousand words. If you look at it, you can see all the casting flaws in the piston. It looks to be coated with something as well, probably a ceramic coating. The problem is, you can't just coat a badly casted piston and think it's going to work. The piston needs to be very smooth because other wise, it creates hot spots on the piston which leads to pre-ignition. I've replaced pistons on my old car with oem mitsubishi ones. Even though it wasn't all nice and polished like the aftermarket ones, it was still extremely smooth.

I think it's best in the end if you do get the porting done first and get it tuned. That way, you will know how much each component affects the bike. If you get it dyno-tuned, then you'll be able to tell if the new displacement and CR made a good difference or not. Same with the porting.

to me that piston looks cast. This is a forged JE piston

There is a 282 kit. at 12.5 to 1
Im thinking.........:thumbup: when the bottom end lets go.
I would rather have a 13 to 1 but Im sure you can grab a bit more with a thin gasket. 12.75 to 1
Who is making cams??? anyone making performance rocker arms??

to me that piston looks cast. This is a forged JE piston

Aint that perrrrrty

You can't get thinner head gaskets. But you can have .010 cut from the block. I do not cut the head because of the cumbusion chamber shape.You need to adjust the cams timing if ypu change the distance from crank to cam though.

You could always just have JE cut custom pistons to the CR you want.

They come in 12, 12.5 and13 to 1.JE will custom make you anything you want I think it is sets of four for 800.00 dollars

Just got a set of 13 to 1 pistons From JE.
I shot some photos of the stock piston in one side and the high compression pistons side by side. The ruff surface of the stock piston is because it is a cast piston. That means they poured aluminum into a mold then when it cooled they remove it and machine the ring groves and pin hole. This process makes perfectly good pistons. But not pistons capable of high pressure or temp. When they say forged pistons .That means they pushed the aluminum under pressure into a tube .

This link is long but interesting . How they make pistons. 300 dollars a set with pins and rings seems like a good deal after watching how much work goes into them. http://youtu.be/bPF7jdPyQaU

so so shiny.... my preciouussss....

JE pistons informed me that we need to replace the sleeves if you want to use the 282cc pistons, so im gonna avoid doing that and keep the original sleeve, and probably go with the 265cc pistons. at least the compression ratio will go up to 12.5:1, which would already be an improvement on its own.

next step~ buying it and getting it brought half way across the globe to lil Bali, hehe :)

PS, eric told me he is using the 13:1 compression pistons, with the stock bore. no wonder hes able to pull off those sweet speed records :D although i think he went a little trigger happy with the NOS a couple runs back and brought the forged piston to its melting point, hehe...

anything yet :P?

the piston is in my LA office, but waiting for my colleague to come to bali to hand carry it when he comes in September.

gonna port the engine soon first tho. waiting for my brothers bike to get fixed 1st, so i can use that while my bike is away.

wanna see the step by step improvement~

i just noticed that they are about to release a 13.5:1 compression piston for both the 265cc and 285cc pistons. wonder how they would be with high octane fuel!

I just want to point out that Burt Munro had cast piston, and his bike was the fastest indian in the world.:D

@wayan please let me know what happen when ur bike is finished already, i might get the same piston that u get...

I just want to point out that Burt Munro had cast piston, and his bike was the fastest indian in the world.:D

The last for years at Bonniville Burt used Nitro . He went through a all his pistons.then went home. Sad really. But he would not take advice from Marty Dickerson on the mixtrue or the pistons.

finally got the parts! wow they look BLING!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070813_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070814_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070816_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070815_resize.jpg

but, i still havent gotten around to getting the engine ported, since i wanna get that done 1st to see what the gains are and what the bike can put out with the stock pistons, before upgrading to the 265cc's

will keep updating once i get some progress and results :)

Are those big bore or standard 12.5 to1 s?

its the "big bore" if you wanna call it that, lol +2mm diameter over the standard, @ 12.5:1 (265cc)

i saw on their website last time i looked that there are both the 265 and 285cc's coming out that will have a 13.5:1 compression, which were not available when i bought these. although i think i would still have chosen the 12.5:1 even if i did have a choice, since the fuel octane in this country isnt great.

W.

Sorry that was a dumb question. The shiney parts got me all excited.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070816_resize.jpg

That is almost too sexy to hide in an engine.

yeah, its so so shiny :D

i believe that i have been running on the Rich side since the last tuning that i did many many moons ago... so im expecting to find a very Black and un-shiny piston in the bike when we open it, lol

I'm pretty interested in doing on of the big bores on my wifes bike. She had a 650, but the weight and height made it a bit awkward for her as she's only 5'2 with a really short inseam. She loves the 250, but would like a little more power.

I saw the 285 kit that JE makes and understand that you'd have to have new sleeves pressed into the cylinders and have the heads redone for bigger valves. However, how strong is the bottom end in these motors?

Would you be looking at having to redo the rods, cranks and bearings too at that point or would it be pretty reliable still. Also, at 12.5:1 CR would 91 or 93 Octane be enough to keep it from detonating?

Any of you guys with the 265 kit mind sharing your HP/TQ numbers? I was thinking that getting something in the 37-40HP range would be plenty enough to keep her happy. :)

Also, at 12.5:1 CR would 91 or 93 Octane be enough to keep it from detonating?

Well if it helps any, the pre-gens are 12.4:1 from the factory and run perfectly fine on regular. Never had any sort of detonation that some think you would get. Not sure if the same would apply to the new-gens with the different tuning though.

finally got the parts! wow they look BLING!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070813_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070814_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070816_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070815_resize.jpg

but, i still havent gotten around to getting the engine ported, since i wanna get that done 1st to see what the gains are and what the bike can put out with the stock pistons, before upgrading to the 265cc's

will keep updating once i get some progress and results :)

so nice :O anyword if its adds a kick x]?

picking up the 3 bikes i had at the mechanics soon and then ill drop off the ninjette to get worked on.

i believe to get 37~40 bhp, you will need to do some work on the top end, porting the engine, and have a full exhaust system (possibly pod filters), to improve overall air flow/power.

apparently just using the stock size JE pistons will gain you about 2hp without much modding. but add a good exhaust, port the intake and exhaust, tune the carbs, and you might be getting close to those numbers. however that would cost a lot to do in the states! where as here, the labor costs are not as painful.

ill be getting three dyno runs done again, one before we do any work on it. im quite certain that the power has dropped since i last tuned the bike over a year and a half ago. back then i got 29,8 Bhp peak. (AreaP exhaust, pod filter, BRT CDI, and Sportifi jetkit, being the only power mods i had done)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/sportisidynochartres.jpg

next step is to get the engine ported, reassembled and carbs retuned, then do another dynorun and check what the gains are, hopefully around 33~34.


last step, bore up. reassemble, retune carbs - set the BRT, etc, and do the last dyno run.

hoping to see 36+Hp when its all done~ ill post the various dyno charts once we get them done.

Watching with great interest. HURRY. Im impatient........:p

rofl~ its a pain in the ass to loose my bike for a couple weeks... like literally! since ill have to drive my brothers KLX150, and the seat is NOT comfortable at all!

but ya, i cant wait to see the results... after this, there is basically only 1 (well possibly more) mod that i might end up falling prey to, and that's the Sudko CR31 carbs...

but i like to take it step by step, and see how this goes down 1st :)

With the +2mm overbore, can you use and get good power out of the stock valves? I know the +6mm it requires you to use larger intake and exhaust valves. But if I had the head ported could the stock valves be retained and still make it into the upper 30's HP? Also, can the 13.5:1 be run on premium fuel or does it require race gas?

Rough calculations show that the +6mm at 12.5:1 and the +2mm at 13.5:1 would make pretty close to the same peak HP.

Another thing I had thought about, has anyone ever tried to lighten the stator rotor (flywheel) on these bikes? I used to road race some aircooled Ducati's and that was an easy way to get them to build RPMs and speed a bit faster.

well here we go~

1st step, engine out!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BRGVucGFzYXIgU2VsYXRhbi0yMDExMDkyMy0wMDAwNC5qcGc.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTEwOTIzLTAwMDAzLmpwZw.jpg

will try to get pictures once the engine is cracked open :)

I. Don't see why you need bigger valves. It is easy to do . But then you need stronger valve springs. This is great though. I have a damaged cylinder from rust. And a burnt valve seat. This mod will use all my damaged parts. I can't wait.

and they cracked the engine up to start porting the intake and exhaust :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTEwOTI0LTAwMDAzLmpwZw.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTEwOTI0LTAwMDAyLmpwZw.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTEwOTI0LTAwMDA1LmpwZw.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTEwOTI0LTAwMDA0LmpwZw.jpg

the pistons are rather dirty from the prolonged rich run, but past the seala its still perfect. goes to prove that the hard brake-in advice i took from MotoMan seems to work good :) (the brown stuff under the seals are my oily finger smudges, lol)

will try to snap some pics after they port it and before reassembly. even better would be to go there when they are doing the porting, i would love to record it and post it on youtube :p not sure if ill get the timing tho, with work, etc.

W.

so, the 1st stage of my engine tweaking is complete:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070855_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/P1070856_resize.jpg

intake and exhaust ports have been worked on to achieve a better flow~

they re-assmebled the engine completely, and tuned it and ran it on the Dyno.

here is the dyno run before the Porting job:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/WAYANLAMTEST1b.jpg

and then this is AFTER porting it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/WAYANLAMTEST2.jpg

and here they are overlapped:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/WAYANLAMTEST12.jpg

from the get go, i feel a considerable increase even at a the lower rpm. at the upper end... weeeeeee... its good! well the little that i was able to push her, since the whole drive back from the workshop there was friken traffic jams, lmao!

i plan to bring the bike back tomorrow or on the week end, just wanted to test out the bike and make sure that its running smoothly before they take it apart again to put in the new pistons :rolleyes:

i am really looking forward to see/feel the bike when its all finally done!

cheers, :p

so you gained almost 5hp from porting the intake/exhaust ports? same carb setup as before they tore it down, jets i mean?

my bike was running rich at the top end (mains were too big), but i was too lazy to take the carbs apart to adjust it, since the bike ran quite well in the lower/mid range, which is what i drive in 80% of the time.

after porting it, they adjusted the jetting correctly, and yeah, gained a significant amount.

im using a sportisi jet kit, that comes with 40 pilot jets, adjustable needles, and a lot of mains to choose from~ i forgot to ask what mains they ended up using this time. its gonna change again shortly, since the bike will get the new pistons, and will have to get re-jetted again, lol

5hp is is pretty good with basically just a port job, with your piston in you should be at the 40+hp mark :)

thats what im hoping for, but ill just have to wait and see what they can pull off when the time comes :D

This will be a 265cc when finished?

yeah, the JE pistons i got are 2mm oversize, = 265cc, which is like a 16cc increase. not too significant, but what will also add to the power improvement will be the increased compression ratio, which is rated @ 12.5:1 with these pistons.

there are still more improvements that you can make with the engine, such as ceramic ballbearings, new crank or something i think~ plus the option to lob in a pair of CR31 carbs from SUDCO for example. which would end up being another grand worth of parts if not more... but ill leave those mods alone for now lol, spending more than i should as it is. rofl

how many miles on your motor? are they refreshining anything else while in there? the numbers are pretty good for being a 265cc, especially if it hits over 40hp which it probably will :)

the pistons are still stock at the moment. i have like 15.000 Km on the bike if im not mistake, around 10k miles.

im not sure what exactly was done besides porting, since i was not able to follow this up in person like i would have liked to, had i not been busy with work i would have spent a couple days at the mechanics, lol

up to now ive always done all the work on the bike myself which i got up to around 32Hp which is the dyno run before they did the porting job.

Killer...........still watching this with interest.:D

Killer...........still watching this with interest.:D

Me 3:p

Hi there people, I'm from Greece and I registered just to reply to this thread :P

wayanlam go go go man, I'd like very much to see results

I have a ninja 250r '09 (european version, FI and all tha stuff).. the engine broke at about ~9-9.500km(thats about 5592-5903 miles). I think it was from bad service, I left the oil/oil filter change ONE time to the kawasaki center although the service was from certified kawasaki center(and from there I bought the motorcycle) and exactly after oil change it broke me(about 20 minutes after).

Before that I had an agreement with the kawasaki center that I could do oil changes(and oil filter changes) myself and just write on the service book that everything is fine. While I was servicing my ninja everything was great - but to be honest, I was hitting redline all the time and most of the time I was changing gears at about 13.500rpm (at 13.600rpm my ninja is hitting the limit)..don't mention the long trip with a steady 11-12.000rpm all the time.

Anyway'z sorry for the long message, the engine was fixed(covered by kawasaki warranty, its just that I had a honda moped(Honda Astrea Supra - 100cc) and I used to have full throttle all the time without any problems).

P.S. Waiting for results, I wish I could put a bigger engine there.. EX500 sound great but in my town we have bad mechanics.

I can tell you now, it wasn't from the service you received that broke the bike. The motor can handle a lot, that's well know. However, an engine is not going to last long constantly wide open and pegged all the time. Normal cruising rpm for the bike is around 7-9k rpm. You have 6 gears, I suggest you try using them all, that's what they are there for. Shifting should be before 12k and you should NOT be cruising along at 11-12k for long periods of time. Doing that style of riding is what killed your motor, not anything the service department did.

As for your scooter being wide open all the time with no problem as you said. Well most small motors in scooters tend to have a mechanical limiter on them keeping them at a safe maximum rev limit. The ninjette is not built that way and can not be run that way.

i dont quite understand what your broken engine has to do with the big bore kit, :p

did they explain what was wrong with the engine after they fixed it?

as for the hard riding, if im not mistaken, ive read reports of others driving their lil ninja hard all the time, without any issues. occasionally i push my bike hard too for extended times when i got for a sprinted run around the island, and its always done it flawlessly. but i dont drive that way all the time, since it would just annoy a lot of people and the roads are not good enough nor empty enough to drive that way, hehe

I can tell you now, it wasn't from the service you received that broke the bike. The motor can handle a lot, that's well know. However, an engine is not going to last long constantly wide open and pegged all the time. Normal cruising rpm for the bike is around 7-9k rpm. You have 6 gears, I suggest you try using them all, that's what they are there for. Shifting should be before 12k and you should NOT be cruising along at 11-12k for long periods of time. Doing that style of riding is what killed your motor, not anything the service department did.

As for your scooter being wide open all the time with no problem as you said. Well most small motors in scooters tend to have a mechanical limiter on them keeping them at a safe maximum rev limit. The ninjette is not built that way and can not be run that way.


I meant I'm hitting 11-12k most of the time at 6th gear :D ..so its the final one. I was thinking of changing sprocket so at full throttle it would have 9-10k and not 11-12k.

wayanlam ..they didn't explained it exactly, the reaction was oh.. thats a first, I've never heard or see a ninja 250r broken but we've found out that the crankshaft was broken(probably the connecting rod, he didn't explain in details and I didn't ask ..I was pissed of for some time :P). Now of course I'm avoiding to reach 12k or if I reach that I don't stay for more than a few seconds, I strictly doing oil/filter changes myself and don't trust anyone. My moped(Honda astrea supra) was tunned and even if it was tunned from 50mm piston to 53.5mm I was always full throttle at any speed(4 gears).. but the piston was 350 Euros(japan made, takekawa).

P.S. Anyway I could create a post and say lot but I really like to see a tuned small ninja. Oh something last before saying more irrelevant things, when my ninja broke I was going at about 160km/h(thats ~100mph). A big white smoke came to my face and oils dropped to the road making me drive like nuts(imagine oil in the back tyre), thankfuly due to experience and VERY GOOD luck..I was able to hold it and after a few meters I stopped, later I saw a small hole in the engine head, a small metal hole. When they came to pick me up, one guy from the service told me that its a usual kawasaki thing to broke like this.. he had a 1000cc ninja that did him the same thing. I'm very happy I don't have a 1000cc engine because if I had the same problem and I was going over 150mph(240km/h) I would be probably in the hospital even if its been more than a year since the incident.

Crakez, if you're going to do the ex500 engine swap, why not do the ninja 400 engine instead? you already have all the components for FI, and the 400cc engine is physically smaller than the ex500 engine

Perhaps you should also consider slowing down. Just a suggestion, but I don't seen the point of running that fast for extended periods of time unless on a track.

I meant I'm hitting 11-12k most of the time at 6th gear :D ..so its the final one. I was thinking of changing sprocket so at full throttle it would have 9-10k and not 11-12k.

wayanlam ..they didn't explained it exactly, the reaction was oh.. thats a first, I've never heard or see a ninja 250r broken but we've found out that the crankshaft was broken(probably the connecting rod, he didn't explain in details and I didn't ask ..I was pissed of for some time :P). Now of course I'm avoiding to reach 12k or if I reach that I don't stay for more than a few seconds, I strictly doing oil/filter changes myself and don't trust anyone. My moped(Honda astrea supra) was tunned and even if it was tunned from 50mm piston to 53.5mm I was always full throttle at any speed(4 gears).. but the piston was 350 Euros(japan made, takekawa).

P.S. Anyway I could create a post and say lot but I really like to see a tuned small ninja. Oh something last before saying more irrelevant things, when my ninja broke I was going at about 160km/h(thats ~100mph). A big white smoke came to my face and oils dropped to the road making me drive like nuts(imagine oil in the back tyre), thankfuly due to experience and VERY GOOD luck..I was able to hold it and after a few meters I stopped, later I saw a small hole in the engine head, a small metal hole. When they came to pick me up, one guy from the service told me that its a usual kawasaki thing to broke like this.. he had a 1000cc ninja that did him the same thing. I'm very happy I don't have a 1000cc engine because if I had the same problem and I was going over 150mph(240km/h) I would be probably in the hospital even if its been more than a year since the incident.

you needa be on a moped :eek:

i dont quite understand what your broken engine has to do with the big bore kit, :p
You were saying what a good mechanic can do, he was showing what a bad mechanic can do. :)

^^^

ahhhhh... now i see the connection, good cop bad cop. uh mechanic i meant!

@ Kostas, your really lucky that nothing bad happened... oil on the wheel while going that fast is crazy! we have a 125cc honda supra moped, its what my girlfriend uses, hehe... that thing wont make it past 95~100Km/h. totally unmodified, and has almost 50km on it now. slow and safe :p

regarding my bike~

it is back with me again, using it till Saturday, then Sunday ill bring it back to my mechanic and he promised to work on the bore up next week for me.

at the same time im gonna do a couple other things too:
*replace rear shock with a GSXR 600 fully adjustable shock,

http://www.gdlcycles.com/general/328-21324-Shock-1.jpg

*change the front fork oil, havent done it since i bought the bike, and its due for a change~

*add Bikerz preload adjusters.

http://www.bikers.co.th/accessories/produce/produce_671_1.jpg

then im gonna try and balance out the back shocks to match the front forks. just watched a heap of youtube vids last night about setting up suspensions... gonna be a whole new experience, and im sure its gonna take quite a few tiral and errors, hehe

I meant I'm hitting 11-12k most of the time at 6th gear :D ..so its the final one. I was thinking of changing sprocket so at full throttle it would have 9-10k and not 11-12k.

wayanlam ..they didn't explained it exactly, the reaction was oh.. thats a first, I've never heard or see a ninja 250r broken but we've found out that the crankshaft was broken(probably the connecting rod, he didn't explain in details and I didn't ask ..I was pissed of for some time :P). Now of course I'm avoiding to reach 12k or if I reach that I don't stay for more than a few seconds, I strictly doing oil/filter changes myself and don't trust anyone. My moped(Honda astrea supra) was tunned and even if it was tunned from 50mm piston to 53.5mm I was always full throttle at any speed(4 gears).. but the piston was 350 Euros(japan made, takekawa).

P.S. Anyway I could create a post and say lot but I really like to see a tuned small ninja. Oh something last before saying more irrelevant things, when my ninja broke I was going at about 160km/h(thats ~100mph). A big white smoke came to my face and oils dropped to the road making me drive like nuts(imagine oil in the back tyre), thankfuly due to experience and VERY GOOD luck..I was able to hold it and after a few meters I stopped, later I saw a small hole in the engine head, a small metal hole. When they came to pick me up, one guy from the service told me that its a usual kawasaki thing to broke like this.. he had a 1000cc ninja that did him the same thing. I'm very happy I don't have a 1000cc engine because if I had the same problem and I was going over 150mph(240km/h) I would be probably in the hospital even if its been more than a year since the incident.

I ride mine all the time 10-13k lol..hell I was shifting the other day at 14k ! 2500 miles on the clock but its running strong :)

unless you have an after market CDI, you cant be switching at 14k.

if im not mistaken, the stock CDI is set to cut off at 13.500 Rpm (thats when you hit the limiter and the bike goes pop~pop~pop~pop~pop.... lol)

however, the stock cdi/speedo give false readings~ which is why you think your up at 14k rpm :p

i have my programmable cdi set to 14.5 or 15.5k (forgot...) but either way, i never hit the limiter now, since i aim to switch at around 13.5~14k rpm. since at that point the power starts to taper off (visible on the Dyno chart :) )

unless you have an after market CDI, you cant be switching at 14k.

if im not mistaken, the stock CDI is set to cut off at 13.500 Rpm (thats when you hit the limiter and the bike goes pop~pop~pop~pop~pop.... lol)

however, the stock cdi/speedo give false readings~ which is why you think your up at 14k rpm :p

i have my programmable cdi set to 14.5 or 15.5k (forgot...) but either way, i never hit the limiter now, since i aim to switch at around 13.5~14k rpm. since at that point the power starts to taper off (visible on the Dyno chart :) )



So true.. at least for my FI ninja the 13.600 is a limit, I cannot pass that and never did, thats why I was changing gears at about 13.400-13.500. Damn in my town we have bad mechanics and its not only that they charge a fortune. When I had my moped I was able to change piston, head, cylinder myself..but I don't dare to do the same with the ninja. choneofakind we don't have any people to do any engine change..except the exactly same engine :P ..and kawasaki doesn't offer a ninja 400r in my country so finding a engine can be difficult

P.S. I wanted a 400-500cc sport motorcycle but in my country we have ninja 250r and after that 600cc sports bike nothing between, it was way too much to change from a moped 100cc(111.22cc tuned :P) to a 600cc(imagine 8bhp the moped, 120bhp a cbr 600), so the ninja 250r was just about right because there wasn't any other option. In the beginning it forgive my gear change-mistakes(that was Summer 2009 :P). Now in 2011 we have also in Greece honda cbr b250r(which sucks and costs more.. singe piston)

Anyway, although I couldn't do an engine change and don't trust them for changing any inside engine part(bad mechanics or lazy? dunno)..have we have any news about the tunned ninja?

Kostas, what you can do to keep it relatively simple, but still get a nice increase in power would be:

* get the 12.5:1 compression 249cc JE piston (no need to bore up, just plug and play) they also have 13:1 compression piston, but you need to run high octane fuel.

* get a juice box / power commander, and adjust the timing and fuel delivery of your injectors (IF model)

* a good exhaust. if i had to choose any exhaust now, i would get the AreaP racing exhaust:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/sowega748/ninjaafter.jpg
i would love to get this exhaust, but there are 2 problems for me... no pasanger foot peg, so GF would not be happy, and i already have an AP exhaust and my GF would be doubly not be happy if i spend more money for something that i sort of already have, LOL...

* wide band AF Sensor, so you can tune the bike without having to go to a Dyno.

* Open air filter such as K&N (maybe if removing snorkel is not enough)

hmm... that's about it for starters :thumbup: should keep you busy for a while~

I don't know if its worth doing that.. I mean 13:1 compression? hmmm, after the "accident" I'm not very convinced that the engine can handle it very well. I mean there is no point of putting bigger piston and run it low and slow :P

Power commander? hmm, eventually if I put a power commander, full exhaust, pistons(~350 euros), filter K&N and 2-3 more stuff we are talking about lot of money. Why don't you sell the ninja 250r put 3-4k and buy a brand new at ~600cc it would cost you about the same and except that it would be stock it would have about 160-180% more power :P

P.S. I don't know about you guys but here a power commander, an exhaust and air filter from K&N are way too expensive and I'm having seconds thought on buying them, I mean if I get 2-3hp for all this its not worth it.


Kostas, what you can do to keep it relatively simple, but still get a nice increase in power would be:

* get the 12.5:1 compression 249cc JE piston (no need to bore up, just plug and play) they also have 13:1 compression piston, but you need to run high octane fuel.

* get a juice box / power commander, and adjust the timing and fuel delivery of your injectors (IF model)

* a good exhaust. if i had to choose any exhaust now, i would get the AreaP racing exhaust:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/sowega748/ninjaafter.jpg
i would love to get this exhaust, but there are 2 problems for me... no pasanger foot peg, so GF would not be happy, and i already have an AP exhaust and my GF would be doubly not be happy if i spend more money for something that i sort of already have, LOL...

* wide band AF Sensor, so you can tune the bike without having to go to a Dyno.

* Open air filter such as K&N (maybe if removing snorkel is not enough)

hmm... that's about it for starters :thumbup: should keep you busy for a while~

its all relative to where you live and what situation you are in :)

here in indo, the new ninja 600R costs 225.000.000 Rp = almost 26.000 USD.

while the ninja 250 now costs like 55.000.000 Rp = 6.250 USD.

we could buy 4 small ninjas for the price of one 600cc :p

so far my power mods that have gained me about 10Hp has cost me:

* $1000 for the AreaP exhaust (import tax literraly raped me there... got charged almost 50% on top) - install free
* $100 for K&N filter - install free
* $100 for a Jet kit - install free
* $100 - 200 for the porting - done by the mechanic (haven't paid yet, gonna get one fat bill when the bore up has been done too... lol)
-----------------
$1300 ~ 1400 total so far~

then im still doing the bore up:
* $335 for the JE pistons
* $100~200 for the bore up to 265cc.
--------------
$435 ~ 535 once thats done..

and im hoping to get another 3~5 Hp with this hopefully.

gran total is somewhere around 2k USD... never added this up till now actually, looks expensive now, haha, but i paid it all in small bits, so it did not feel as bad as it looks on the wallet.

ive spent about $860 on other various mods as well... and i dont even have a full ninja, running her naked since i crashed a couple months ago :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Byson%20Rear%20Hugger%20on%20Ninja%20250/P1070742_resize.jpg
that was was a pic while i was still installing the new headlamp. i have a 60/55W bulb in that reflector, and its even brighter than the original headlight! sort of tempted to put in a HID, but its actually bright enough as it is hehe~

so back to your comment Kostas, yes, if you can buy a bigger bike for not that much more, and you are confident that you wont kill yourself with 160~180% power increase... do it ;)

drive safe and have a fun week end!

the 1st bike with the big bore kit was finished on friday~ not my bike, anothers.

the results are looking good!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTExMDE1LTAwMDIyLmpwZw.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTExMDE1LTAwMDIxLmpwZw.jpg

thats the bike~

and the dyno:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/39HP.jpg
theirs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/39HPMINE.jpg
theirs + mine

there is a drawback on that other bikes power curve, and that is the rather noticable drop between 8500 and 11000 Rpm, where its actually below mine. then after 11k it jumps over my curve real fast.

where my torque curve stays strong going up all the way till 10k, and then gradually tapering off, the other bike has a big dip, and then it comes back up~ definitely needs some more tweaking done to clean that out.

im hoping that my bike will have a better curve, like keep what i have now, and increase some more in the upper range~ i like having a smooth curve :p

that other bikes about to change out their cam rod too, but that's gonna get done later on, i think the owner is taking the bike out for a while to test drive it, hehe...

For the track I would take his....for the street I would take yours in a New York min. When are we going to see the pistons in yours and a dyno sheet??

the mechanic promised to have it done by Thursday this week. about to pass by later today to see how its coming along.

while the bike is there, we are gonna change out oil in the front forks, its due a change. and replace the brake oil with some DOT4. gonna try and balance out the front and rear suspension once its all reassembled. hope the lack of weight from having no farings wont affect the front suspension in a negative way. might buy a pre-load adjuster if i find that the front shocks are too soft~hard

the back shocks are totally adjustable now that i have GSXR shock in there:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTExMDE1LTAwMDI4LmpwZw.jpg

but again, i hope the bike weighs enough to give the suspension enough static sag. without the engine block, it was way too stiff when i hopped on the bike to make sure it was all bolted tight, after reassembling it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/39HP.jpg
theirs


I want that power! :P

wayanlam Here in Greece a ninja 250r costs 4.750(thats how much I paid) but a 600cc sport bike costs 9-11.000 euros about the double but you have more than double power

to compare ninja 250r(EU mode) has 33ps and a cbr 600rr has 120ps

The 40hp barrier MUST be broken. I contacted my engine builder. I want to go to the 282 kit with 13.5 to 1. Bigger valves and my Brt ignition with CR Special carbs should do it. Ballancing will be requiered when adding the heavy pistons.The critical part will be proper springs for the bigger valves. So this is really not a do it myself thing.

The 40hp barrier MUST be broken.

yas! i agree :rolleyes:

i was tempted to get the 285cc kit, but you need new sleeves, and thats just too much work to get the right ones from all the way here, when i wasnt sure what what sleeve i needed to get.

also when i bought my 265cc kit, they they only had the 12.5:1 version. i then looked at their list 2 weeks later, and saw that they were releasing the 13.5:1... meh!~ but anyhow, i think its better i went with the lower compression, since we cant get high octane fuel here.

post up your big bore kit conversion when you get started on it :D

YES the 285 needs sleeves. So I will not be doing I myself. I have full access to race gas up to 118 octane.I will definitly post up progress. And results from the dyno and the track.But things move VERY slow with this sort of thing.I am hopeing for early next year fo completion.

and i thought waiting 1 week for my bore up was already slow, haha :P

target is saturday now, just went by the mechanic eralier today, he was still busy with some other bikes~ as usual, rofl

the ninja 500's only laydown about 50whp right?? this is awesome to be close to a 500's hp with a 265cc :) im sure for anyone willing to spend the $$ a few grand and a good shop that knows what there doing these #'s wouldnt be to hard to achieve here in the US.. assuming your going in with all supporting mods like exhaust/jets/pods..

I have all ready spent the money for this .But was just going stock bore. But with the prospect for 40+ hp I can't pass it up. I have Carillo rods allready made and the parts are allready going out for ballance. Sleveing and pistons will cost less than 500 dollars I hope.

The 40hp barrier MUST be broken. I contacted my engine builder. I want to go to the 282 kit with 13.5 to 1. Bigger valves and my Brt ignition with CR Special carbs should do it. Ballancing will be requiered when adding the heavy pistons.The critical part will be proper springs for the bigger valves. So this is really not a do it myself thing.


I would like either to have this kit(if we had good mechanics here and know exactly what they are doing) ..or to build the ninja based on electric motor(this one would probably cost more than 3.000 USD but it will worth every penny due to huge savings on gas)

P.S. if I tell to our mechanics about tear appart the engine and put big bore change valve springs, valves etc.. first they would do a messy job and after a few kilometers the engine would be dead and they would tell me.. "its natural.. having it stock is better" ..and stuff like, I told you not to tune the engine..just buy another, we can sell you this this this.. :mad:

Developing an engine to double the power requiers a machinest .Not a mechanic. The mechanic put the engine in the bike that the machinest built. Then the tuner uses a dyno to make the proper adjustments . Having someone without experence with THIS engine will result in failure. The margin of error at over 14000 RPM is small. The number of things that can go wrong is large.

I was able to get on the web and the phone today.I found a local machine shop that can do the work for me. I will build the engine. But I need to have the engine bored and the crank balanced plus some head repair.
I will do the 265 kit with 12.5 to 1 for nitrous. The 282 kit will have larger valves and be naturaly asperated so it will requier cams and is a LOT more involved. But the 265 set up will be quick .Starting all in two weeks .I will start a build thread.

I was able to get on the web and the phone today.I found a local machine shop that can do the work for me. I will build the engine. But I need to have the engine bored and the crank balanced plus some head repair.
I will do the 265 kit with 12.5 to 1 for nitrous. The 282 kit will have larger valves and be naturaly asperated so it will requier cams and is a LOT more involved. But the 265 set up will be quick .Starting all in two weeks .I will start a build thread.

make sure to list prices and such :P

I will list parts prices. But this is a labor intenceive thing.I will spend dozens of hours on this . But it is my quiet time in the shed so I can't put a price on labor.Unless I pay for someone to do something. Then I will list it.

Wayan, this is awesome. I'd already settled on installed hi-compression pistons as my winter project this year, so it's great to see someone else doing it first lol.

@ racer X, you mention a lot about better rods, valves, valve springs etc. Is this more because of the bore-up combined with the compression increase? I'm thinking I'd like to go to 13:1 stock bore, but I was really hoping to just swap out pistons. Is a lot of extra support work necessary in your opinion?

sorry for jacking the thread... :redface:

You can drop in stock bore 13 to 1 pistons . No problem . Even the 35 deg ignition timming will be good with 93 octane fuel. I am running better rods because of the nitrous. As for springs. The stock valves and springs are good.But with bigger valves I want stronger springs to control the valves. I expect to push the power band up to 14000 rpm.If the valves hit or the spring breakes it is all over.

If the valves hit or the spring breakes it is all over.

well at least you could boast having the most expensive blender :D

You can drop in stock bore 13 to 1 pistons . No problem . Even the 35 deg ignition timming will be good with 93 octane fuel. I am running better rods because of the nitrous. As for springs. The stock valves and springs are good.But with bigger valves I want stronger springs to control the valves. I expect to push the power band up to 14000 rpm.If the valves hit or the spring breakes it is all over.

Ok, so I read somewhere that you're running like a 30hp nitrous shot? what if you were doing half that, or maybe 10hp? would you still feel a need for stronger rods and springs?

If I could run less I would. It is hard to meter the small amount that I am running. But I am doing it all on stock rods now with no problems at all. Now I am to the point of trying to get the 30 shot to work. The clutch is letting go at around 40 hp. Next week I am going to try my stronger clutch and try to de-tune the motor some . Fatter jets and less timing . Just to see if I can get it to hook up . And keep the tips on the spark plugs. Just little problems.But everything matters now.

who makes the kit

you get the new pistons kits from JEpistons:

http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Powersports/Street-Cycle/Kawasaki.aspx

anyhow, back to business! the bike was reassembled today, finally!! :D

the results are not as high as i would have liked them to be, hehe, but there has still been an increase over my last dyno run:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/WAYANAFTERBOREUP1.jpg
so, the current setup is getting me 38.2 Hp, with a nice meaty 24.5 torque (newton meter, not sure what it is converted into foot pounds or whatever you americans use :p )

in comparison to before the bore up:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/WAYANBEFOREAFTERBOREUP.jpg
i got an increase of 1.8hp, and 1.25 n.m.

so, the bike i was hoping to bear was the one that got 39hp last week.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/WAYANVSLEONAFTERBOREUP.jpg
his top end reaches higher, but my torque is noticeably better than his bike from 9.000 till 12.000 rpm

the main factor that i believe is limiting my bike now is the exhaust on the upper end... but it kicks ass on the lower range!

ill follow up on this later~ need to go have dinner, it was a long long day working on the bike hehe

Good Job. You are so close.

you get the new pistons kits from JEpistons:

the results are not as high as i would have liked them to be, hehe, but there has still been an increase over my last dyno run:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/WAYANAFTERBOREUP1.jpg


Impressive results... do you still have a record of your ninja's performance bone stock so you could measure your total increase in performance?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/WAYANLAMTEST1.jpg

that was before getting the engine ported, and before the bore up~ at the time i've already re-jetted, K&N pod filter, and the full AreaP exhaust

i dont have a stock dyno run, but i can see if i can get one from one of the other bikes that they have run while in stock form. going back there again soon, so ill try and remember, lol

38 and 39hp? wow, it seems my ninja is quite slow(maybe if I loose 40kg I could compete ROFL)

P.S. Bare in mind I'm 1.83 and 88kg :p

so, as for the follow up, i wanted to divulge a little more info regarding the differences of my bike, and the other that managed to get the 39Hp.

the porting done on my bike was following the standard porting that the mechanic usually does which i think generally gets the bikes to around 34~35hp. on my bike it ended above average (36,5) i believe because of the AreaP exhaust. this exhaust is just great on my bike, and im lovin it! the porting on the other bike was done larger than standard, because they plan to replace the cam shaft to get better flow, thus a more agressive porting setup. but due to this larger porting, they lost a noticable ammount of torque in the mid range. which is something that i find essential for my style of riding.

anyhow, back to my setup, there is a drawback, and that is the fact that i have the normal full exhaust from AreaP, and not their new Sport/racing model, which comes with bigger pipes. im also running the quiet core version of the original model.

in comparison the bike that ran 39hp has a full leo Vince exhaust, which i think runs bigger pipes than mine, and thus has better flow which seems to affect the upper rev range. also the other bike is running on two individual K&N pod filters, which might have better air flow compared to my K&N uni-pod. it seems like my bike is hitting the air flow limit at around 12~13k rpm at this point, since graphically my bike is getting a way better mid rpm range result than the other bike, but lacking once i go past 12k.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/Ninja%20250%20-%20JE%20Piston%20265cc/Leo-Vince-SBK-Factory-EVOII-Aluminium-Full-Exhaust-System---Kawasaki-Ninja-250-08-09-7278.png

however, if i had to choose between the 2 bikes, i would still choose mine, since im only 0.8 hp behind, but got a way better torque line, and a nice mid range power curve. for now i think ive spent enough money to get to this stage... who knows maybe ill get idle fingers again and try to tweak the bike even further in the future (full racing AreaP exhaust, RC31 carbs... drool), but what i have now is already a blast to ride, and anyways, i need to break in the bike again, since its got new pistons that need to settle into the newly bored out sleeves :)

actually, my next goal is to finalize my "street fighter" look, get some custom farings made to cover the radiator, and an oil pan or something :thumbup: pictures will be posted.

oh, took vids today of the dynorun, and also my mechanic doing some porting work on another bike ;)

I can't wait to see how mine does with 13.5 to 1 cr carb Brt ignition and a Nojima moto GP exhaust.

yeah! you got a big head start on me with all the goodies youve collected over the past couple seasons on the ninjette :)

looking forward to see what you get out of ur setup!

I'm the only one who has a FI ninja? (EU model)

nope, there are others, but they are mostly silent :D

how would the 13.1 work for street riding
with FI or carb

I can't wait to see how mine does with 13.5 to 1 cr carb Brt ignition and a Nojima moto GP exhaust.

whens the next speed race

I think you would need at least 92 octane.
I run the stock bore but 13 to 1 pistons at the track. I have had 12.5 to 1 on the street and it was great . So 13 should be OK . But I have not ridden it on the street. I did notice that the CR carbs and 13 to 1 really drinks gas.

I think you would need at least 92 octane.
I run the stock bore but 13 to 1 pistons at the track. I have had 12.5 to 1 on the street and it was great . So 13 should be OK . But I have not ridden it on the street. I did notice that the CR carbs and 13 to 1 really drinks gas.

IM thinking of doing 13 to 1 with the EFI KIT

http://youtu.be/JymCaEkQ7ug

http://youtu.be/zNoUql8M_EU

http://youtu.be/iNd9w11PjtU

those were the dyno runs :)

I can't wait to see how mine does with 13.5 to 1 cr carb Brt ignition and a Nojima moto GP exhaust.

Yeah, me too lol.

someone asked for a stock dynorun, and i came across this one. its in line with what my dyno guy has told me:

http://image.sportrider.com/f/36387900/146_1103+2011-250s-dyno-horsepower+.jpg

he told me that stock bikes that they have tested range around 23 to 25hp

So basically you're looking at about a 55% increase in power to the bike right now. Not bad, not bad at all. :thumbup:

Hi Wayan and Eric,

to complete your work you will need the RTR-KAW-5-05 Ignition advancer.

Take a look here: http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodk04.html

Good luck for you,

Somchai

as much as I'd love a sleeper 250r the hassle and price doesn't seem worth it...I would consider it on my new gen though because I've been riding 4 years and will still be riding it into the foreseeable future. How would the rest of the frame hold up to the extra power?

It should be fine with the extra power. It's not excessive hp output (not like you're asking 60hp from it...)

:bump2:

Updates?

^^ if Felipe the Ant comes to Cleveland this summer and has time to do internal work on my engine for the cost of parts and teaching me some of the stuff, I'm totally letting him have some fun on my engine! :)

^^ if Felipe the Ant comes to Cleveland this summer and has time to do internal work on my engine for the cost of parts and teaching me some of the stuff, I'm totally letting him have some fun on my engine! :)

I'm totally down for that. I'll probably do mine too if I have the money

Woooo!

Wayan and RacerX, I would appreciate if you can comment on my thread. I am looking at doing some similar work on my bike and have been told a few things by a local mechanic here in Jakarta. I am not sure if what he says is 100% correct and/or what you guys think is the best way to go. I don't care about the cash side too much (just looking for extra-testicles for my bike): http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=581967#post581967

each to their own but i have a 200 hp bike and i'm really digging the slowness of the 250r-it's kind of liberating -i 'm throwing a few go fast things at it but only a few people in the world can get the most out of a superbike-it's a blast wringing that little bike out and making the most of your riding ability -i'm, new to the 250r and maybe i will sick of the lack of power ,but right now its a blast
I don't have a 200hp bike (currently or previously) but I did have a 2004 zx-10r. What ratlab said couldn't be more true for me. The bike I've got is a blast and only NEEDS modifications to fit different bodies/riding styles (spring rates, clip-ons, rearsets, etc.). I've done all that and now all I have to do is keep her full of gas and fresh oil :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/JEPistons.jpg

282cc... mmm...mmm...mm... anyone know if that is possible to bore up with the original sleeve? or does it need a totally new/replaced piston sleve thinggy? lol, forgot what its called :rolleyes:

back to square one, research time, yey!

Well I'm new on here, but have had a ZZR250 (same engine as old Ninja 250 up to 2006) for a few years with some serious chassis upgrades, done I decided it need more performance. After a bit of internet searching I settled on a 282cc big bore, so just picked up my spare cylinder after re-sleeve & big bore to 66mm.

To achieve this I used a second hand Kawasaki ZZR600 cylinder block, removed 2 liners & had them retro fittied to the 250 block, then bored to 66mm to take kawasaki ZX6R pistons.

I only picked this up this morning, so will be a while before I get round to rebuilding the engine. I'll throw some pictures up later.

So yes doable, but expensive as the block has to be machined, to accept the new liners, because the original 62mm ones can't be bored to 66mm, not enough material.

FYI the orginal liners are 62mm bore with 3mm wall thickness for 68mm OD. The ZZR600 press fit wet liners are 64mm bore with 3.5mm wall thickness, for 71mm OD. Now bored to 66mm so 2.5mm wall remaining. Those in the know say 2mm wall is the minimum thickness limit, so should be good.

The ZX6R piston weight is similar, need to weigh them & designed for a similar max RPM (14K in the ZZR250), so should also be good. :dancecool:

*71mm OD

Thanks now corrected at 71mm, sorry was a typo.

Well if it's been confirmed that the 500 motor fits in the 250 frame, then I got news for you. That would mean the 650 motor will fit too. Believe it or not, but the outter dimensions of the 650 motor are smaller then the 500 making it lighter and slimmer. Imagine putting one of those puppies in the 250 frame.......... 71hp with about 48lb-ft of torque. :eek:

It would be like the video game road rash. An 1100/750. 1100 wedged in a 750 chassis.

But that's the case with the 04+ smaller gixxers right? The 750 is just a 600 with a bigger engine?

In still making my way thru this thread, but is there a hands down conclusion?
I started a thread for big bore kits and no responses, and this thread starts out saying there are none.

The 500R 0-60 time is one, to 1.5 seconds faster than the 250.

Can the 500 be out in a Or even 250? Is it plug and play? Everything connects right back up?

The 500 may fit, but I've never seen a completed one. Nothing else will fit though, the carbs are bigger & wider spaced than the 250 because it has a central cam chain.

Haven't seen one for the Ninja 250. Here's a link to Wiseco big bore kits, which they make for a whole pile of different Kawasaki streetbikes (and other makes), but no kit for the 250:

http://www.procycle-online.com/bigbore/bbstreet_kaw.htm

When people go about improving the ninja 250's engine performance, for street use at least, typical mods include intake improvements/exhaust improvements/timing, rather than wholesale component replacement. There's no technical reason why more couldn't be done, but at some point the costs would be hard to justify instead of choosing a different bike to start with more power.

There's no substitute for cubic inches.

Bill

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I_want_to_put_a_bigger_engine_in_my_Ninja

This cat make some serious sense.

Bill