kbryant How long till we see a area p :D?

Official word from AreaP is that they're going to do systems for the new bike. I know this for a fact for the QuietCore since that's what I asked about... have to assume they'll also have the short can too.

We appreciate the inquiries on the new 300 exhaust R&D program. Since this is the site we support, we'll provide the updates here first;

We are still awaiting our production bike from KMC to be delivered to our CA facility. We are also awaiting our new FI Micro programmer that has the ability to hold multiple maps. The way our R&D program now works with having two facilities is that initial CAD designs and prototyping is done at our SoCal facility. Then these modular components are sent to our FL location where we fine tune the data, fitment, dimensions, Dyno testing and FI Mapping. Final testing and fittment is done at our FL location. When we require a bike in our FL location, whoever provides the bike will receive the first production system, FI programmer, Dyno Tuning, and installation all for free! The bike obviously does not have to be located in FL, it can be shipped/brought here if desired.

We will likely have several systems to choose from as usual. We will be doing maps for a variety of combinations, scenarios, rpm ranges and throttle positions. Our R&D program will be extensive, as it was on the 250R. Our goal is to have production systems and FI programmers ready by late December after all tooling and fixtures are designed. Meeting this goal is dependant on how the R&D program progresses. Detailed information will be released as soon as possible on our website, as well as ninjette.org. Stay tuned.... :thumbup:

Thanx for the update Kerry, looking forward to bumping the new bike even more. The offer for my bike as prototype still stands :D

Thank you for that offer Joel. If we don't get ours soon, we may be getting back to you on that....;)

Thanks for the update Kerry, I'm definitely getting one for my bike for Christmas :)

Bike delivered. R&D program started. :thumbup:

Coolness.

Something occurred to me... are you thinking of doing a new can for this bike? I've got a Quiet Core that I dearly love already... would be nifty to just have to buy a new header if I swap bikes.

Also interested in how you're going to deal with the EFI. Won't a Power Commander or somesuch be required, or will the bike's existing computer be able to adjust itself?

Bike delivered. R&D program started. :thumbup:

Love to learn anything related to the ECU managements capabilities when available. Not sure if you know yet as to whether your going down the path of providing maps that can be additionally tuned or if the maps offered will be basically a ECU reflash. If the maps will be tunable knowing some of the tuning options when available will really get me excited.

I am also interested in if data logging will be available and what sensors we will be able to datalog.

Thank you and good luck with the R&D. I can't wait to see what your company comes up with.

Thomas

Thank you. As noted in post #24 - "awaiting our new FI Micro programmer that has the ability to hold multiple maps."

"We will be doing maps for a variety of combinations, scenarios, rpm ranges and throttle positions."

Further, the logic will be Dynojet PC5 based. Besides a variety of supplied/available specific based maps available from Area P, you will have ability to manipulate your own changes as well; both manually and laptop/PC based. It will be user friendly. As R&D proceeds, we'll have more updates and general info to consider. :thumbup:

kbryant will there be pictures :O?

Thank you. As noted in post #24 - "awaiting our new FI Micro programmer that has the ability to hold multiple maps."

"We will be doing maps for a variety of combinations, scenarios, rpm ranges and throttle positions."

Further, the logic will be Dynojet PC5 based. Besides a variety of supplied/available specific based maps available from Area P, you will have ability to manipulate your own changes as well; both manually and laptop/PC based. It will be user friendly. As R&D proceeds, we'll have more updates and general info to consider. :thumbup:

Wonderful stuff! Thank you for the information and I look forward to the final product. :D

kbryant any updates or some goodies like pictures :D?

kbryant any updates or some goodies like pictures :D?

We'll be posting some pix later today exclusively for Ninjette.org members of the prototypes that are now ready for testing. We've designed 3 different sets of headpipes, 4 rear sections, 5 muffllers, mounting brackets, and sound attenuator inserts. These will now be sent to our Florida R&D facility where we will thoroughly Dyno test all the combinations, fine tune the fitments & designs, and Map all the diffferent combinations.

Since our R&D bike at our CA facility has to be returned to KMC, if anyone in South Florida has a bike they would like to let us use for this final phase of testing, they will receive a substantial amount of product & service in return -system of their choice, FI Micro Programmer with 3 maps, Mounting Bracket, custom installation and dyno tuning. We hope to have our FI Micro Tuner within the next few weeks, then Dyno testing will begin. Testing without the FI Tuner is somewhat of a mute point, since to fully validate each combination of headpipes, rear sections, and mufflers to their given potential, we must be able to adjust A/F curves based both on rpm & throttle position. Stay tuned. :thumbup:

Keep us updated Kerry. :thumbup:

I'm excited to see what AP can come up with. The dyno for the Leo Vince is a little disappointing; not only is the bump less appreciable than I expected with a full system, but I'm totally not willing to DROP the torque curve below 5krpm. It's already a bit anemic down there, so intentionally losing power at a weak point seems bad; definitely not something I'll pay a lot for.

Here's a few pix of some of the full system prototypes we'll be testing. An ultra high mount, standard mount with optional bracket, standard mount with long muffler and optional bracket, a variety of quiet core modules & cores, mufflers as well. Standard mounts can also retain the oem passenger peg if desired. Ultra high mount will likely require a fender eliminator kit. Once we begin our dyno testing & mapping, we'll narrow down all the options. With all the different versions we've prototyped, there's a substantial amount of data to attain before releasing the best combinations. :thumbup:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2ce38b3127ccef13201a743f800000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2ce05b3127ccef1241d14251800000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2ce38b3127ccef13397a063f800000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2ce38b3127ccef132cc5882c900000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

kbryant pics YAY :D

Will there be a 12" quiet core or just 18" :O? Also with the ultra mount is there no way of geting a undertail exhaust or would there be a clearnce issue?

Very nice! I don't know if anyone else has pointed it out during your R&D process, but the 300 has a tendency to land the rider's boot on the exhaust heat shield. With the standard mount versions, there, it looks like my boot my sit right on the actual muffler. Any plans for a heat shield to keep the boots from melting?

Will there be a 12" quiet core or just 18" :O? Also with the ultra mount is there no way of geting a undertail exhaust or would there be a clearnce issue?

Possibly with an insert. But the short length of the 12" means sound has to be attenuated more through restriction (not the best way), instead of dispersion through volume (like the 18"). Testing will tell.

We looked at an undertail design and prototyped one. Issues are many; reliable mounting system, radiant heat and cooling, actual performance. It may look neat, but there are many issues to consider.

Very nice! I don't know if anyone else has pointed it out during your R&D process, but the 300 has a tendency to land the rider's boot on the exhaust heat shield. With the standard mount versions, there, it looks like my boot my sit right on the actual muffler. Any plans for a heat shield to keep the boots from melting?

Yep, we noticed. Standard system is fine testing heal on peg and toes on peg. We have several options with altering routing, adding heatshield, etc. The Ultra high mount was more noticeable and we have plenty of options to address it. That's why we have a thourgh R&D program. ;)

Ah true. Seeing the pictures the pipe looks pretty thick almost like the 250 race pipe on all of them, Any pictures of the header?

Just a thought here, will the high-mount and standard systems be compatible with aftermarket rearsets?
Posted via Mobile Device

Ah true. Seeing the pictures the pipe looks pretty thick almost like the 250 race pipe on all of them, Any pictures of the header?

Yep. But we're not going to show those yet. We've literly worked 24/7 on the 3 different headpipe prototypes for testing. No sense giving the competition a headstart ;). Once we know which version(s) we'll be using, we'll post them up. I will tell you this; those jumping to simply throw something together and call it a day, will be not be giving you their best efforts. Small displacement, high reving 4 strokes require alot of R&D to cover all bases of hp/tq/throttle response/fueling. It won't just be in the headpipes, mid-section, muffler; it will also be in the correct A/F mapping of all versions to bring the whole package together. Actually taking the time to do all this is definetly a project...:thumbup:

Just a thought here, will the high-mount and standard systems be compatible with aftermarket rearsets?
Posted via Mobile Device

As much as possible, we try to factor that in when designing prototypes. Obviously without having actual rearsets available, and the variety of different dimensions those aftermarket manufactures utilize, it can be difficult to determine at this stage.

Do you think i can have this on my bike before next year :P? or It might just be established by the end of december and sold early next year?

Do you think i can have this on my bike before next year :P? or It might just be established by the end of december and sold early next year?

Really won't know until we're done with R&D program. Both of those time-frames are goals. The way it works is after the R&D program is completed, we then design & build all tooling & fixtures to manufacture them in production. We'll keep the updates coming.

I will tell you this; those jumping to simply throw something together and call it a day, will be not be giving you their best efforts. Small displacement, high reving 4 strokes require alot of R&D to cover all bases of hp/tq/throttle response/fueling. It won't just be in the headpipes, mid-section, muffler; it will also be in the correct A/F mapping of all versions to bring the whole package together. Actually taking the time to do all this is definetly a project...:thumbup:

This is why you will be receiving my money for a full system eventually. You guys did this for the pre08 EX250 when no one else would bother. I'll be saving my money for an Area P exhaust. I'm in central florida (orlando) and don't even have my bike yet (mid-november), but if I was on south florida and had my bike, you bet I would give it to your R and D. lol

Here's a few pix of some of the full system prototypes we'll be testing. An ultra high mount, standard mount with optional bracket, standard mount with long muffler and optional bracket, a variety of quiet core modules & cores, mufflers as well. Standard mounts can also retain the oem passenger peg if desired. Ultra high mount will likely require a fender eliminator kit. Once we begin our dyno testing & mapping, we'll narrow down all the options. With all the different versions we've prototyped, there's a substantial amount of data to attain before releasing the best combinations. :thumbup:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2ce38b3127ccef13201a743f800000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/


Hey Kerry, Totally digging your work,especially this ultra high mount one... Looks sweet :D Though, won't it increase COG? Just curious. Keep up the good work... :thumbup:

Thank you for the comments. Well in our industry "COG" stands for two things: "Cost of Goods", or "Center of Gravity". Assuming you mean the later ;) - you would only notice the benefits of this design- Weight savings of a Fender Eliminator kit, weight savings of passenger pegs removed, overall weight savings of the exhaust system itself, and tucked routing of the mid-pipe/muffler.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2ce38b3127ccef13201a743f800000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/




I love the ultra high mount!!

+10,0000

:)

kbryant So will florida need a bike till someone brings it in or will they eventualy get sent the kmcs 300?

kbryant So will florida need a bike till someone brings it in or will they eventualy get sent the kmcs 300?

From post #14 -

"Since our R&D bike at our CA facility has to be returned to KMC, if anyone in South Florida has a bike they would like to let us use for this final phase of testing, they will receive a substantial amount of product & service in return -system of their choice, FI Micro Programmer with 3 maps, Mounting Bracket, custom installation and dyno tuning. We hope to have our FI Micro Tuner within the next few weeks, then Dyno testing will begin. Testing without the FI Tuner is somewhat of a mute point, since to fully validate each combination of headpipes, rear sections, and mufflers to their given potential, we must be able to adjust A/F curves based both on rpm & throttle position"

We always prefer to provide the product to a consumer donor bike in exchange for the final testing/fitting as they get a great package in exchange. Since our final R&D is now done at our Florida location (where I am currently located), it's not quite as easy for us to simply run down to KMC in SoCal if we don't have a consumer loaner. There have been cases where we have purchased bikes in the past, to complete our R&D programs if necessary. So we'll see if we find one locally, or have one shipped in to us shortly. If not, we'll purchase one for "long term testing". Never hurts to add another bike to the stable. ;)

Wait you need a bike in socal not florida >.< im confused

More questions for you Kerry,

Will you be making maps for with/without the snorkel?

Right now, do you think it will be possible to ditch the airbox and switch to a pod filter? Or would the bike get better performance from an airbox?

Also, what does the cross tube on the oem system accomplish? I know the 88-07 bikes had one, but my aftermarket Muzzy system (and your discontinued 88-07 full system as well) does not have this cross tube.

I don't even have a 300, but I think your R&D process is cool and I want to learn as much as I can about the new bike. :)

Wait you need a bike in socal not florida >.< im confused

Florida :thumbup:

Awww to bad >.< I got my hopes up for a second i think shipping my bike would be super expensive :/

More questions for you Kerry,

Will you be making maps for with/without the snorkel?

Right now, do you think it will be possible to ditch the airbox and switch to a pod filter? Or would the bike get better performance from an airbox?

Also, what does the cross tube on the oem system accomplish? I know the 88-07 bikes had one, but my aftermarket Muzzy system (and your discontinued 88-07 full system as well) does not have this cross tube.

I don't even have a 300, but I think your R&D process is cool and I want to learn as much as I can about the new bike. :)

We'll be doing maps with and without the Snorkel, along with an array of other combinations.

With FI, I believe it will work best with the oem airbox, snorkel removed, and/or modified oem airbox (such as an aftermarket filter, removal of the backfire screen, etc.). But you really cannot be completely sure until actually testing it with Pod style filters as well. Unless we've actually tested it, and we know for certain what it does or doesn't do, we don't rule it out.

Well there's alot of black magic to the cross-over theory. Some good, some bad. In many cases, that crossover tube you see, may not even have actual openings on some models. It may also have openings much smaller than the actual cross-over tube diameter that we call "bleeders". The primary benefits we see to them is attenuation of sound. When you have a given goal of getting the best performance within a certain sound and emission level restriction (like the OEMs), going with a cross-over tube at a certain point in the headpipe design can make the difference between passing certification or not. That being said, it doesn't mean you can't get cross-overs to be beneficial in other areas of hp/tq as well. We've designed systems over the years with cross-overs and had excellent results in all areas. We utilize them alot when we design racecar exhaust systems for both torque and sound benefits. It really just depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how. At the end of the day, we look at all ideas and then sort them out on the dyno, sound meter, and actual riding conditions. That pretty much puts all the theory ideas to rest. ;)

Awww to bad >.< I got my hopes up for a second i think shipping my bike would be super expensive :/

Not really (depending on what you think is expensive). ;) I think the last bike we had shipped out here from SoCal was about $400 in a crate (one-way). Over the years, we've had bikes shipped to us from all over the world for R&D. In alot of cases, it's actually really surprising how relatively cheap it is. We've also had people drive pretty darn far (several states) to drop them off. Then they fly home and when we're done with their bike, we either ship it back or they fly back out and ride it home!

Idk Lmao I think thats to long of a ride especialy when i dont get vacation time and 800 bucks to ship back and forth is alot. >.>

kbryant - Kerry, as a tipp I'll show you a dyno-run from a standard Ninja 250R in Europe.

At the FI-Ninja it's no good idea to take of the snorkel and many members in a german forum put it back on again after removing it and the engine's not running as good as before.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21515&stc=1&d=1350899011

Red means without snorkel
Blue is with the snorkel
Green is with snorkel and K&N Airfilter

I think the 250 is not that different to the 300 with FI.

Well we never assume anything without thourghly testing it. I don't know what exhaust you were testing with and if it had an EC/TUV muffler, what the mapping was, if it was in closed or open loop, etc. The stock mapping on the Euro model required a lot of fuel to be removed to work properly, even with the stock exhaust. If the exhaust being tested was reasonably restrictive, there would be no advantage to increasing air intake by removing the snorkel.

The 300 is very different than the 250 and will no doubt respond differently as well to modifications; especially mapping. With a properly designed exhaust system and as importantly, properly designed mapping, there may be an advantage to removing the intake snorkel. Larger throttle bodies and intake valves, and a variety of other changes on the 300, may allow it to respond well to it being removed. But existing airbox volume may be perfectly fine without removing it. R&D will confirm this. ;)

kerry - any chance of a shorty exhaust model? something small and compact.

kbryant no way of spliting the cost of shipping maybe i ship there and you pay shiping back :D?

Ruslan, stop failing at being a mooch. Kerry has been good to this forum, let's not be annoying.

kerry - any chance of a shorty exhaust model? something small and compact.

Yep. But we're not going to show that one just yet. Those designs are inherently loud & simply do not make power. But, there is the appeal of that style for some people. We are going to explore it during testing.

kbryant no way of spliting the cost of shipping maybe i ship there and you pay shiping back :D?

Never can tell.... You'd be without it for awhile. It's a two phase process - it comes in for all the final dyno testing, mapping, prototyping, fitment, final combos, sound bytes, etc. Then it can go away for awhile while we build all the tooling & fixtures based off those final prototypes. Then it has to come back again to check-fit the first production articles and make sure they match the prototypes, perform the same, fit perfectly, write all the final instructional data sheets, pictures, etc. With a "local" bike it can come & go between those two phases. With one shipped in, it has to stay put (from a practical standpoint). That process itself can be very time consuming when approaching it without compromise. And that's the only way we roll to bring you the best possible products. ;)

aww man hopefully you guys find a bike willing soon enough. Conical tips will be still be a option right? And is there anyway of getting the bolts around the can in a color like say red. >.>

aww man hopefully you guys find a bike willing soon enough. Conical tips will be still be a option right? And is there anyway of getting the bolts around the can in a color like say red. >.>

I'm sure we will. Conical End Cap option - yes. Colored bolts - no.

I know its a little ot but it feels like my bike runs stronger when its cold and when its hot it seems bit slower and rev happy could stock tune be kind of lean?

From post #14 -

"Since our R&D bike at our CA facility has to be returned to KMC, if anyone in South Florida has a bike they would like to let us use for this final phase of testing, they will receive a substantial amount of product & service in return -system of their choice, FI Micro Programmer with 3 maps, Mounting Bracket, custom installation and dyno tuning. We hope to have our FI Micro Tuner within the next few weeks, then Dyno testing will begin. Testing without the FI Tuner is somewhat of a mute point, since to fully validate each combination of headpipes, rear sections, and mufflers to their given potential, we must be able to adjust A/F curves based both on rpm & throttle position"

We always prefer to provide the product to a consumer donor bike in exchange for the final testing/fitting as they get a great package in exchange. Since our final R&D is now done at our Florida location (where I am currently located), it's not quite as easy for us to simply run down to KMC in SoCal if we don't have a consumer loaner. There have been cases where we have purchased bikes in the past, to complete our R&D programs if necessary. So we'll see if we find one locally, or have one shipped in to us shortly. If not, we'll purchase one for "long term testing". Never hurts to add another bike to the stable. ;)


I live in west palm beach with my 300 :) if offer still stands

I live in west palm beach with my 300 :) if offer still stands

They posted pics of a '13 w an area p on it..so I doubt they still need it.

They posted pics of a '13 w an area p on it..so I doubt they still need it.

I know but the post i quoted was made after those pictures where posted in which they still did not have a bike in floroda. Either way they probably have one by now

ah.. sorry

Never know, they may still need one there

I know its a little ot but it feels like my bike runs stronger when its cold and when its hot it seems bit slower and rev happy could stock tune be kind of lean?

Stronger when cold is a symptom of rich. You have some reading to do on tuning. :)

but it's not that simple, because the FI map is also dependent on engine temp. Carbs are much easier to tune than FI. That's why so many people buy an exhaust, a PC, and some dyno time at a shop.

I live in west palm beach with my 300 :) if offer still stands

The offer absolutely still stands! :thumbup: If you would like to discuss it further, PM or contact me directly at our Florida facility - 561-233-9191.

I know its a little ot but it feels like my bike runs stronger when its cold and when its hot it seems bit slower and rev happy could stock tune be kind of lean?

Could be many things. Not much you can do at the moment. Once we have our FI Micro Tuner, the A/F can be adjusted and address most issues with new mapping.

we wont be hearing any updates for atleast few weeks are we :[

I'm sure you'll be the first to hear, Ruslan. :rolleyes:

Sush Alex I only check every few hours :P no one wants to ride with me. :[

Quick someone uninvite him from the group ride!

Quick someone uninvite him from the group ride!

W433CbS6zww

Yep. But we're not going to show that one just yet. Those designs are inherently loud & simply do not make power. But, there is the appeal of that style for some people. We are going to explore it during testing.

awesome, definitely doesn't hurt to have more options! :thumbup:

We've worked out a deal with eddieA6987 to utilize his bike for the final R&D testing of prototypes we have designed. Our FI management system for the 300 is in production and should be ready within the next two weeks. We will then be able to begin our A/F mapping program. Stay tuned. :thumbup:

Bueno! :thumbup:

Yay news! :D

We've had quite a few inquires about the FI and what will be involved with our exhaust as far as the A/F curve goes. We are really hesitant to release too much info until our R&D program is completed, confirmed, and re-confirmed. But we can tell you this, the OEM A/F curve leaves alot of room for improvement. In many aspects, the A/F curve has similarities to the carbed version. The good news is that with precisely and thourghly developed A/F maps written, overall performance and throttle response will be dramatically improved. And they will be much more precise than carbs could ever hope to be. Stay tuned. :thumbup:

Omg kbryant your teasing us hurry and get something out for us i'll probably be the first customer :D any input how much the tuner will be, Would you sell it at a set price with exhaust :O??

Can't wait to hear a sound clip :D

Any updates kbryant im getting worried we need a exhaust soon :D

Any updates kbryant im getting worried we need a exhaust soon :D

Our new FI Micro Programmers have been shipped and we should have them later this week. We've contacted Eddie to schedule his bike in for next week. :thumbup:

Yay :]] do you think The final product can be at our doors before new years :D?

Yay :]] do you think The final product can be at our doors before new years :D?

No sorry it won't be ready by then. First we have to finish our R&D testing, hopefully that is with Eddie's bike. Then tooling/fixtures for production. As with any of our products, we won't be releasing it until we have the best possible combinations of exhaust system design(s) and FI Mapping. We will have FI Micro Programmers and maps available next month. The OEM A/F curve is lean below 5500 rpm, then goes rich, then stabilizes while still rich with the stock exhaust. So even with the stock exhaust system, major improvements can be had with proper mapping for throttle response and overall power. Realistically, exhaust systems will be available in late January provided our R&D program goes as planned. And as we have done in the past, there will be package deals and GB's available exclusively to ninjette members upon its release :thumbup:

Our new FI Micro Programmers are now in stock. We've scheduled Eddie's bike in later this week for fitment of the prototypes, dyno testing and FI management. We'll have it here in our Florida location for about 5 days. We have several preliminary maps already written, based on testing of the stock/oem A/F curve. These will be adjusted and fine tuned based on the production bike (Eddie's), and the many different combinations of prototypes we have to test. We'll compile the data and post information as we go along. :thumbup:

Very cool update Kerry.

I'm curious, do you plan to upload these fuel maps to the PC website for anyone to download or do you plan to only give the PC map out with the purchase of a system? I'm not sure how that works logistically since I have never used a PC.

Also, will these maps be applicable to all users? Like those who ride in mountains vs those who ride at sea level etc? Again, I've never used a PC before so I'm not sure how that works.

Anyway, I enjoy the reading. Thanks for the updates.

Very cool update Kerry.

I'm curious, do you plan to upload these fuel maps to the PC website for anyone to download or do you plan to only give the PC map out with the purchase of a system? I'm not sure how that works logistically since I have never used a PC.

Also, will these maps be applicable to all users? Like those who ride in mountains vs those who ride at sea level etc? Again, I've never used a PC before so I'm not sure how that works.

Anyway, I enjoy the reading. Thanks for the updates.

My pleasure. :)

The maps will be developed and available from Area P. So when you purchase the FI Micro Programmer, map support is included. They will not be available on the Dynojet website. Our FI Micro units are manufactured by Dynojet exclusively for a company we have partnered with called "Fuelmoto", utilizing proprietary logic. The new Micro Programmers will be available exclusively from Area P and Fuelmoto only. We will have separate maps written and developed for PCV units as well. We’ve had a long-term relationship with Fuelmoto and asked for these units to be specifically developed for the Ninja 300. The unit is easy to install and utilizes OEM type connectors (plug & play). Fuelmoto is the leading expert in our industry for FI management. We have partnered with them because they have a similar technical and customer support background to Area P. Maps will be available for the OEM exhaust and of course all the different Area P configurations as well.

We’ll have an extensive map support system and warranty that will set a new industry standard (the Micro Programmer comes with a two year warranty). We will continually develop map data bases for most combinations of tune, elevation, temp and humidity. And for those who may not wish to experiment with the Tuning features included on the CD in the kit, you can simply contact us and explain what your particular bike is doing or not doing within your riding conditions and/or state-of-tune. We can then make changes to your specific map and e-mail it to you as part of our support system. Or, you can take advantage of our live “Offsite Tuning Support”. In simple terms, we can access/log onto to your computer that you have the map up on, and make adjustments in real time! This particular feature will be done through Fuelmoto and support will cover all Area P and Fuelmoto maps with purchase of the Micro Programmer. Here's a picture of the kit. Price is $249.95 We'll be releasing more info on them next week. :thumbup:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cf09b3127ccef1ec6872cec500000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Very cool Kerry! Now I want a Ninja 300.

Tip of the hat for customer service like that. :yo:

Yep, stuff like this makes a me want a new 300 even more as well.

So So awesome!!! Can't wait to get the kit for my wife and I! :-D

Hey guys I have a pretty limited knowledge of fuels and tuning but
I live in Australia and our premium fuel here is 98 octane versus premium in the us being 92 octane. Does having a higher octane level mean there is a possibility for a better map? Will area P be making a map for 98octane fuel? Or is the slight octane difference not enough to have an impact on the tune?

Hey guys I have a pretty limited knowledge of fuels and tuning but
I live in Australia and our premium fuel here is 98 octane versus premium in the us being 92 octane. Does having a higher octane level mean there is a possibility for a better map? Will area P be making a map for 98octane fuel? Or is the slight octane difference not enough to have an impact on the tune?

You would need to increase compression to take advantage of higher octane, which means some engine work. You should only be putting in 87 PON

The rating systems for octane are different. The same fuel that is rated 98 in Australia is rated roughly 93 in the US. Oz uses the RON number alone; US use (RON+MON)/2. (in other words, there's not that much difference between one rated 98 in AUS and one rated 91 or 92 in the US).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Also, I'm definitely not an expert here, but wouldn't higher octane gas have no effect from a fuel map standpoint?

I know that higher octane gas can be used to take advantage of advanced ignition timing, I'm just asking about the fuel mixture.

The rating systems for octane are different. The same fuel that is rated 98 in Australia is rated roughly 93 in the US. Oz uses the RON number alone; US use (RON+MON)/2. (in other words, there's not that much difference between one rated 98 in AUS and one rated 91 or 92 in the US).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

I thought it was a bit odd that we would have such a high octane level compared USA. The different rating system makes a ton of sense.
Thanks once again Alex.

Really looking forward to getting my Area P exhaust.
Really NOT looking forward to having to pay a small fortune for shipping it over to AUS haha

With higher octane rating and a programmable ECU you can advance ign a bit more without knock being such a factor and in general push the tune more so than at a lower octane rating such as 87.

Not knowing much about the 300 and the factory setup its hard to know how much benefit will be had from running higher octane with some adv ign but I will be interested in playing with it a bit and hearing what the folks at Area P have to say after their initial testing with different setups.

Higher compression motors require a higher octane to prevent knock so its not that they take advantage of it they require it to prevent detonation. They do make more power though.

Hey guys I have a pretty limited knowledge of fuels and tuning but
I live in Australia and our premium fuel here is 98 octane versus premium in the us being 92 octane. Does having a higher octane level mean there is a possibility for a better map? Will area P be making a map for 98octane fuel? Or is the slight octane difference not enough to have an impact on the tune?

The short answer is - No, there will not be a different map related to your specific example. That being said, it is very common to produce less power when running higher octane fuels than the engine tune is set up for. Using 87 octane will likely produce the best power in this example. Running anything higher is simply a waste of fuel and money. ;)

The short answer is - No, there will not be a different map related to your specific example. That being said, it is very common to produce less power when running higher octane fuels than the engine tune is set up for. Using 87 octane will likely produce the best power in this example. Running anything higher is simply a waste of fuel and money. ;)


Is it because the ign advance is already so high on these motors? With the K series engines (car engine) we see good power increases from higher ign which requires the higher oct to fight detonation.

Is it because the ign advance is already so high on these motors? With the K series engines (car engine) we see good power increases from higher ign which requires the higher oct to fight detonation.

Not necessarily. It's really a combination of many things, including the stock compression ratio. Answering his particular question as based on a fuel/octane rating. But yes, in your particular example with a K-series car engine, there are benefits to be had as well. We experiment all the time with our WRX/STI & EVO Turbo kits, but we also incorporate water and/or methanol injection into the equation as well.

We normally stay away from altering timing on most modern street bike/street driven applications. It simply opens up too many possible bad scenarios of tune. Excessive timing can be the most frequent cause of detonation, which makes bad things happen to your engine (like when you start seeing aluminum speckles on your spark plugs...). It can also have a really obvious effect on performance in the wrong tuners hands. So we focus on A/F mapping in most cases, which will be based on the oem/stock ignition curve. We want to assure maximum reliability and longevity on street bikes.

That being said - on a Racebike, it's common that we may/will adjust the timing based on the compression, fuel being used (unleaded, leaded, oxygen content, octane, etc.) and so on, before we attempt to really get the baseline FI mapping we create to yield the optimum power output. But this also depends on so many things as well; how the rider utilizes the throttle, is he off/on, smooth, etc., and how long at full load/WOT. We can take more chances and experiment more; simply because we accept that we will be taking engines apart frequently to diagnose the results of our experimenting and the riders’ abuse of it ;). This is where that delicate balance is of what we see on the Dyno, to what actually occurs on the race track.

Not necessarily. It's really a combination of many things, including the stock compression ratio. Answering his particular question as based on a fuel/octane rating. But yes, in your particular example with a K-series car engine, there are benefits to be had as well. We experiment all the time with our WRX/STI & EVO Turbo kits, but we also incorporate water and/or methanol injection into the equation as well.

We normally stay away from altering timing on most modern street bike/street driven applications. It simply opens up too many possible bad scenarios of tune. Excessive timing can be the most frequent cause of detonation, which makes bad things happen to your engine (like when you start seeing aluminum speckles on your spark plugs...). It can also have a really obvious effect on performance in the wrong tuners hands. So we focus on A/F mapping in most cases, which will be based on the oem/stock ignition curve. We want to assure maximum reliability and longevity on street bikes.

That being said - on a Racebike, it's common that we may/will adjust the timing based on the compression, fuel being used (unleaded, leaded, oxygen content, octane, etc.) and so on, before we attempt to really get the baseline FI mapping we create to yield the optimum power output. But this also depends on so many things as well; how the rider utilizes the throttle, is he off/on, smooth, etc., and how long at full load/WOT. We can take more chances and experiment more; simply because we accept that we will be taking engines apart frequently to diagnose the results of our experimenting and the riders’ abuse of it ;). This is where that delicate balance is of what we see on the Dyno, to what actually occurs on the race track.

Thank you for the reply which makes perfect sense to me. With my k24a2 and other motors we did a lot of tuning using meth injection with a Lysholm twinscrew and a few other blowers so your explanation is very clear. It also makes me feel good about your upcoming product because of the approach you guys take with your map development. I will be interested in the features the ECU management software has compared to Hondata KPro. I suspect it much more limited since bikes do not have all the inputs the cars do for monitoring. Either way it will be fun especially if it has inboard data logging capabilities.

Thanks again

Thomas

Eddie has delivered his bike. Testing will now begin. :thumbup:

eddie has delivered his bike. Testing will now begin. :thumbup:

yay!!! :-)

I can't wait to see the results.

Eddie has delivered his bike. Flogging will now begin. :thumbup:

Corrected for accuracy. :thumbup:

My simple question is this:

What can we expect as far as MPG decrease with the full exhaust and FI tuning?

I know the answer is more complex than the question, but I would just like to have an estimate of the expected drop in Miles Per Gallon from the stock configuration.

Also, is there an estimate as to the retail cost of a full system with the mapper? I have already budgeted an amount and will be part of the first orders once you go live with them, I would just like to have a ballpark figure if possible.

Thanks, really looking forward to an Area P because of your extensive research and knowledge and customer support.

My simple question is this:

What can we expect as far as MPG decrease with the full exhaust and FI tuning?

I know the answer is more complex than the question, but I would just like to have an estimate of the expected drop in Miles Per Gallon from the stock configuration.

Also, is there an estimate as to the retail cost of a full system with the mapper? I have already budgeted an amount and will be part of the first orders once you go live with them, I would just like to have a ballpark figure if possible.

Thanks, really looking forward to an Area P because of your extensive research and knowledge and customer support.

You may end up spending a few more dollars per year, not a big deal

My simple question is this:

What can we expect as far as MPG decrease with the full exhaust and FI tuning?

I know the answer is more complex than the question, but I would just like to have an estimate of the expected drop in Miles Per Gallon from the stock configuration.

Also, is there an estimate as to the retail cost of a full system with the mapper? I have already budgeted an amount and will be part of the first orders once you go live with them, I would just like to have a ballpark figure if possible.

Thanks, really looking forward to an Area P because of your extensive research and knowledge and customer support.

The simple answer is - it may not decrease the MPG. With FI, it is easier to increase efficency without compromise. For example, our full system we make for the Kawasaki C-14, along with our maps, will in many cases increase the MPG depending on the person's riding habits. It also substantially decreases radiant heat and commonly runs one "bar" cooler on the temp gauge as well. We hope for similar results as we develop the systems and maps for the 300. Normally the only reason you may see a "decrease" is because you have more power available so you are "into" the throttle much more. Then add the emotional cool factors of sound & style, and you are further "into" the throttle much more ;). But that's obviously part of the fun. :thumbup:

We estimate the prices on the exhaust will be similar to our 250 race systems. The 300 is much more complex to build, but it should be similar. The FI Micro Programmer will be $249.95 and includes the map support noted previously and a 2 year warranty. We'll have more information next week as we start building our map data base that is currently in process. We'll also have some introductory specials exclusively for ninjette members. :thumbup:

Thanks for the reply. If mpg is still only dependent on on how hard we ride with no significant reduction from the new system, that is really good news. I will be happy if I keep it around or above 50mpg since I commute daily.

I pick up my 300 at the dealer in the morning, looking forward to the first ride home. Will definitely be one of the first to order the full system and mapper, as it appears you will be pricing it all within what I budgeted for.

Just a few findings from our initial testing. Much of it is not too surprising and what we expected. But hopefully it will clarify some points that have been hyped up initially from other sources.

1. Baseline numbers are averaging as seen from other sources - right in the high 33 hp range. 34 in good air. Stock A/F curves are lean in the bottom end, then start to come into a semi-decent curve for the stock exhaust and non-modified airbox.

2. Removing the airbox intake snorkel does nothing, other than increase the exhaust note (and you can actually hear it above the exhaust note). And truly we noted consistent losses in power. It is not recommended without being able to adjust the A/F curve. So if you "feel" it is producing more power, this is what we refer to as "emotional horsepower". ;)

3. Adding our FI Micro Programmer with mapping, removing the intake snorkel, drilling additional holes in the airbox adds almost .5 hp (five tenths), and increases throttle response. Although not yet tested with a K&N direct replacement panel filter, it may add a few additional tenths. The OEM filter is fairly restrictive and heavily oiled. Would it yield even better results with removing the airbox and putting on K&N Pods like we see on the 250r carb model? - Possibly, but it may be difficult to get a really linear map sorted out for it. Time will tell...

4. We designed an array of Slip-Ons to test with. Different lengths, cores, etc. A Slip-On, adds an average of .6 (yes, six tenths) with no A/F change. Adding our Micro Programmer, custom maps, and removing the intake snorkel, we were able to make 1.0 (one hp). The OEM muffler flows very well, within the design of the OEM headpipe. The primary limiting factor is the headpipe and design.

So in summary - No surprises here. The Snorkel "delete" does not yield the same gains as when it is removed from the 250/carb model (for a whole host of reasons). Airbox mods, when combined with proper A/F mapping, yield increases in power and throttle response.

The great Slip-On dilemma.... We have no plans at this time to offer a Slip-On. As with our findings on the 250r when the last new design was released in 2008, it simply does not offer any significant power increases. “But wait, others have noted significant increases in power with just a Slip-On and no other changes - How can that be true?” :eek: Obviously I can imagine how those numbers may have been created… The bottom line is - purchase a Slip-On if you want a different sound, different style, weight savings and most important of all; because that's what you want. :thumbup: We are not anti-Slip-On by any means. But we are anti-hype when it comes to “credible” information and data. It simply does not offer much in the way of performance; and that's just not what we are about. Much of the limiting potential is in the headpipe and mapping. But be aware that even though someone may offer a headpipe optional to go along with the Slip-On already purchased, the design is already compromised because of the Slip-On dimensions/diameters being mated to the OEM outlet routing & specs. The only way to properly design a performance oriented exhaust system on a small displacement, high reving 4 stroke, is what we call "clean-sheet" with as little compromise as possible. And that’s what we will be striving for. More info to come next week, as our full systems get on the Dyno and new A/F mapping continues. :thumbup:

http://saladsocial.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/shut-up-and-take-my-money11.jpeg

You guys are FTW at Area P and I am glad I have your exhaust on my 250. Very interested to see what you guys get out of the 300 with full exhaust and tune. Will you be offering a full exhaust for the new Honda 500s? While it is understandable alot of the budget bikes don't offer a significant market for performance exhaust, you guys are like the kings of awesome performance parts/market for small bikes.

http://saladsocial.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/shut-up-and-take-my-money11.jpeg

Hahahaha I love this! Me too! :D

Kerry is making me want to buy a 300..just to get his new exhaust!!

Kerry is making me want to buy a 300..just to get his new exhaust!!

Sweet. Not sure we can hear much better than that. :)

We'll be concluding our second phase of R&D tomorrow We'll try to post conclusions on Friday after compiling all the data. Stay tuned. :thumbup:

Kerry: can you do me a favor? Can you please post on here that you were able to achieve only really crappy results, and that the sound is terrible, and that you wouldn't put this pipe on your own bike if someone paid you? Please? If you would post something to that effect, my bank account (and my spouse) would really appreciate it. :thumbup:

Kerry: can you do me a favor? Can you please post on here that you were able to achieve only really crappy results, and that the sound is terrible, and that you wouldn't put this pipe on your own bike if someone paid you? Please? If you would post something to that effect, my bank account (and my spouse) would really appreciate it. :thumbup:

You will save quite a few marriages by doing this.

Testing has been completed at this stage. Big thanx to Eddie for loaning us his bike for continued R&D. He gets "Carte blanche" in return; system of his choice, complete fender eliminator kit, FI Micro Programmer, full installation and custom Dyno Tune session (oh, and all the play adjusted out of his throttle cables... ;) ). Enjoy the pix exclusively on ninjette.org. We're sending Alex four Sound Byte files for him to assist us in posting them as well (thank you Alex). Essentially, we'll post more exclusive technical info and results as we sift through all the data compiled during this huge R&D effort. It was not easy making power by any stretch of the imagination. But our current goals have been reached. :thumbup: We hope to have all info on pricing and additional technical data up on the Area P site later next week as well.

After production systems are in stock (hopefully about eight weeks for tooling/fixtures/production), we'll be sending a kit to our Micro Programmer partner (Fuelmoto) in WI. They will then develop additional maps in their perfect air/conditions of WI, along with airbox delete (K&N Filter Pod) mapping as well. With their additional expertise, we are confident that attaining 40+ is well within their grasp, as we are tantilizingly close here... :thumbup:

There is a whole slew of mis-information currently out there (or speculation perhaps). We hope to cut through and clarify that for you in the most un-biased way possible as this thread moves along. More to come.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc27b3127ccef1983efddd9d00000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Full standard mount system, standard carbon fiber muffler.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc27b3127ccef199475c3ce400000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Full standard mount system, standard stainless steel muffler.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc27b3127ccef1984dd31c2200000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Full standard mount system, long Carbon Fiber muffler with standard and/or quiet core options.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc27b3127ccef19917863c1600000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Full standard mount system, long stainless steel muffler with standard and/or quiet core options.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc27b3127ccef198abda1c5800000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Full Ultra High Mount system, standard carbon fiber muffler.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc27b3127ccef19899aa9d0100000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Full Ultra High Mount system, standard stainless steel muffler.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc27b3127ccef19975253c8400000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Optional Mounting Bracket to delete passenger pegs with Area P Systems.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc27b3127ccef19965873c2e00000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Optional Mounting Bracket to delete passenger pegs with OEM Muffler.

Sound Bytes noted below. :thumbup:

Do we just route our tax returns directly to Area P...or what?

Does Fuelmoto need a black lab rat for testing?

The more I read the more I want one of these.

kbryant - I added all 4 sound clips to that same post right above. :thumbup:

Its a real work of art i only wished it came out this year. :[ Cheers to all the non californias that dont have to deal with the stupid laws :[

Cheers to all the non californias that dont have to deal with the stupid laws

Is there a new law going into effect or something?

Holy baby jesus. Although I would want the QuietCore myself, that 12" pipe sounds like an absolute freaking monster.

Do you have any decibel numbers? I'm specifically wondering how much louder the quiet core pipe is compared to stock, at idle and at around 9-10k.

Well done! :thumbup:

Excellent sound/tone on the 18" with or without the quiet core!

/posts on SB435 / California laws moved to this thread (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49096) to keep this AreaP thread on target.

Kbryant, can you confirm there is only a single cat in the muffler and no cat in the front header/mid pipe? Thanks!

Kbryant, can you confirm there is only a single cat in the muffler and no cat in the front header/mid pipe? Thanks!

OEM Cat is in the new left side collector (Headpipe) - not in the muffler.

Does Fuelmoto need a black lab rat for testing?

Yes, they will. If you are interested, send me a PM.

OEM Cat is in the new left side collector (Headpipe) - not in the muffler.

Thanks buddy! So you guys will not be offering a header to match up with stock or that spec slip on?

Holy baby jesus. Although I would want the QuietCore myself, that 12" pipe sounds like an absolute freaking monster.

Do you have any decibel numbers? I'm specifically wondering how much louder the quiet core pipe is compared to stock, at idle and at around 9-10k.

Well done! :thumbup:

Thank you.

First number is Idle, second number is at 5000 rpm. As standard with all our tests, we use the accepted static dbA testing procedure at 20", 45 degree.

OEM Muffler/System 79 / 89
AP Std System, LQ Muffler 81 / 92
AP Std System, Std Muffler 87 / 102
AP Ultra Hi Mt, Std Muffler 85 / 99

Thanks buddy! So you guys will not be offering a header to match up with stock or that spec slip on?

No sorry we won't. Full matched systems only.

You know what's so cool about all this? kbryant clearly knows his stuff inside and out, is willing to share openly and is darned good at communicating.

As a guy who makes his living communicating, I really like that.

Yep. But we're not going to show that one just yet. Those designs are inherently loud & simply do not make power. But, there is the appeal of that style for some people. We are going to explore it during testing.

I can't wait to see this one, especially if it mounts under the lower peg like a gsxr600 or a r6 I would love to see how that would look on this bike, :D

Never can tell.... You'd be without it for awhile. It's a two phase process - it comes in for all the final dyno testing, mapping, prototyping, fitment, final combos, sound bytes, etc. Then it can go away for awhile while we build all the tooling & fixtures based off those final prototypes. Then it has to come back again to check-fit the first production articles and make sure they match the prototypes, perform the same, fit perfectly, write all the final instructional data sheets, pictures, etc. With a "local" bike it can come & go between those two phases. With one shipped in, it has to stay put (from a practical standpoint). That process itself can be very time consuming when approaching it without compromise. And that's the only way we roll to bring you the best possible products. ;)

Can we hear a sound byte soon?

Can we hear a sound byte soon?

Check the post with the pictures Alex added the sound bytes there.

Can we hear a sound byte soon?

Scroll to the bottom of this (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showpost.php?p=611023&postcount=108)?

Scroll to the bottom of this (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showpost.php?p=611023&postcount=108)?

That's it.

That's it.

Thanks! I over looked that =D

Its a real work of art i only wished it came out this year. :[ Cheers to all the non californias that dont have to deal with the stupid laws :[

Deal with what law? The db law that went into effect? That only portains to bikes maked after jan 1st 2013. So your in the clear! And they have to have reason to stop you and check your exhaust db, they cannot stop you just for that, its a 2ndary offence, (did some homework)

Is there a new law going into effect or something?

Yes there is, in california any bike made after jan 1st 2013 has to be in compliance with a db law, it sucks, but there's ways around it. And its a 2ndary offence.

gsxrninja250, based on my question, Alex linked us to the proper thread for the discussion on the CA law so we didn't go OT and gunk up this thread.

PS - there's a multi-quote feature so you don't have to quote people in separate posts and answer the same thing twice.

You know what's so cool about all this? kbryant clearly knows his stuff inside and out, is willing to share openly and is darned good at communicating.

As a guy who makes is living communicating, I really like that.

That cannot be stated enough...love exclusives, I hope we continue to be special to the folks at Area P :thumbup: I hope Eddie has other bikes to ride during this period. Looking forward to the next update and dispelling of rumors!

It was a pleasure lending Kerry the bike. Cool dude smart as hell too. Explained the whole process even though I found my self lost a lot just wondering what all those terms meant. Also gave me a ride back to forth to get the bike.
Installed a clean looking fender eliminator because the one I had was home made and very ulgy also cleaned up my wiring which I hacked away at and new turn signals.

Yes, they will. If you are interested, send me a PM.

Definitely interested.

PM sent.

kbryant I was wondering, with he ultra high mount exhaust, is there gonna be any way to retain the passenger pegs? Or maybe make a option to keep them? (Incase any of use wanna do two up riding?) Or not likely?

kbryant I was wondering, with he ultra high mount exhaust, is there gonna be any way to retain the passenger pegs? Or maybe make a option to keep them? (Incase any of use wanna do two up riding?) Or not likely?

We did look at that possibility. "If" someone wanted to retain the passenger peg(s), it would require a spacer block at least 2.0" long and new bolts at least 75mm long. From an engineering standpoint, we would be more than a little sketchy about that. Although we did not actually test it, I would tend to think the initial moment of leverage could really be an issue depending on the force and weight of the person pushing down on the peg. I would just not recommend it without thourghly checking and testing the engineering of it. Perhaps we'll look at it again when we do our first production system check-fit.

We did look at that possibility. "If" someone wanted to retain the passenger peg(s), it would require a spacer block at least 2.0" long and new bolts at least 75mm long. From an engineering standpoint, we would be more than a little sketchy about that. Although we did not actually test it, I would tend to think the initial moment of leverage could really be an issue depending on the force and weight of the person pushing down on the peg. I would just not recommend it without thourghly checking and testing the engineering of it. Perhaps we'll look at it again when we do our first production system check-fit.

I hope so, that ultra high mounts super sexy, but I think it should be a option to keep the passenger pegs.

Hi Kerry,

I have been following the forum on the Ninja 300 exhaust and I have some quick questions for you. I am for sure going to want the ultra high mount exhaust and with that being said, on your website you have the picture of a ninja 250 race exhaust http://areapnolimits.com/images/product/kawasaki-ninja-250r-exhaust-system_4_big.jpg
Can this muffler in the picture work with the new ultra high mount?
Or are you coming out with Race full systems for the Ninja 300
Or are the new exhaust in production for the Ninja 300 race systems?
What are the difference between the race and regular full systems?

What are the final hp numbers on the ultra high race system with oem intake?

Hi Kerry,

I have been following the forum on the Ninja 300 exhaust and I have some quick questions for you. I am for sure going to want the ultra high mount exhaust and with that being said, on your website you have the picture of a ninja 250 race exhaust http://areapnolimits.com/images/product/kawasaki-ninja-250r-exhaust-system_4_big.jpg
Can this muffler in the picture work with the new ultra high mount?
Or are you coming out with Race full systems for the Ninja 300
Or are the new exhaust in production for the Ninja 300 race systems?
What are the difference between the race and regular full systems?

Hi David - The 250r High Mount Race System muffler is the same spec as our 300 system "standard" muffler, for both the standard mount system and ultra high mount. Other than that, they really do not share any common features. The 300 system is very different from the 250r systems.

We are not classifing a difference between "race & regular full systems" on the 300 series. We were able to combine the best of both within these designs. Essentially you will simply differentiate them by standard mount and/or ultra high mount. The standard mount will also have the option of the long quiet core muffler. Performance increases, with the proper mapping, is very similar between all of them. We'll be showing dyno graphs next. :thumbup:

What are the final hp numbers on the ultra high race system with oem intake?

Posting them shortly:thumbup:

Below are our dyno graphs from our initial R&D tuning sessions. We have created 7 base maps to work with initially and will continue to refine & perfect them, creating an even larger data base. In addition, as previously indicated, our partner in the FI Micro Programmer (Fuelmoto), will be getting one our production systems and creating even more maps under their perfect conditions. These maps will also include airbox delete (K&N Filter Pod). Under Fuelmoto's expert tuning hands, we believe the performance numbers will yield even better numbers.

We hope to have additional information up on our website within the next week, to include pricing, part numbers and additional technical data. We also have additional "bolt-on" performance parts undergoing R&D for the 300 as well. :thumbup:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc29b3127ccef18511952b2800000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Run #3 - Baseline stock run OEM exhaust. Run #28 - OEM exhaust with FI Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc29b3127ccef184ea6dca4900000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Run # 3 - Baseline stock run OEM exhaust. Run #80 - Area P Ultra High Mount System, Fi Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement.


http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc29b3127ccef1850b79aaf900000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Run # 3 - Baseline stock run OEM exhaust. Run #56 - Area P Standard Mount System, Standard Muffler. FI Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement. Run #80 -Area P Ultra High Mount System, Fi Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement.


http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc29b3127ccef185c07eea0300000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Run # 3 - Baseline stock run OEM exhaust. Run #56 - Area P Standard Mount System, Standard Muffler. FI Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed. K&N Filter Panel direct replacement. Run #80 -Area P Ultra High Mount System, Fi Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement. Run #90 - Area P Standard System, Long Quiet Muffler, FI Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement. As you can note, all versions of the Area P systems, with proper mapping, have very similiar performance characteristics. Especially noting that the Standard System with Long Quiet Muffler being very quiet as compared, yet offers excellent performance.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc29b3127ccef185e61bea7500000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Run #3 - Baseline stock run OEM exhaust. Run #28 - OEM exhaust with FI Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement. Run #40 - Slip-On prototype.

This last graph we included only to illustrate the reason why we will not be offering a Slip-On. We can get within .3 hp (yes, 3/10th) as much performance from our FI Micro Programmer (at peak) and the OEM muffler, as with a Slip-On (and our Micro Programmer). We gave it every oppertunity, including many different design versions. And further, without the FI Programmer, we struggled to get a Slip-On to perform as good as stock! :eek: A Slip-On is reasonably easy to design & manufacture. So believe me, if a Slip-On offered more performance than what we have noted (and remember that's with our FI Micro Programmer as well), we would be offering one. So just like we found on the 250R, a significant "performance" increase just isn't there with a Slip-On.

Hi David - The 250r High Mount Race System muffler is the same spec as our 300 system "standard" muffler, for both the standard mount system and ultra high mount. Other than that, they really do not share any common features. The 300 system is very different from the 250r systems.

We are not classifing a difference between "race & regular full systems" on the 300 series. We were able to combine the best of both within these designs. Essentially you will simply differentiate them by standard mount and/or ultra high mount. The standard mount will also have the option of the long quiet core muffler. Performance increases, with the proper mapping, is very similar between all of them. We'll be showing dyno graphs next. :thumbup:

Hi Kerry,

Thanks for the fast response. I understand now. So just to clarify the muffler in the picture has a flat top at the end of the muffler can I get that same muffler on the ultra high mount system?

Thanks

David

Wow, very nearly 40whp. Thumbs up!!!!!!!

Hi Kerry,

Thanks for the fast response. I understand now. So just to clarify the muffler in the picture has a flat top at the end of the muffler can I get that same muffler on the ultra high mount system?

Thanks

David

That's our Flat Conical Billet End Cap and yes it's available as an option.

Now I'm curious to know what these are gonna cost!
Do we find out soon?

That's our Flat Conical Billet End Cap and yes it's available as an option.
Perfect! I am in. I will want to get the pod filters as well. As this is what I have on my custom fuel injection Ninja 250R. Do you think the Power Command V with ignition controls will provide a little more torque if you advance the timing? Otherwise I will do the micro fuel moto?

Wow, very nearly 40whp. Thumbs up!!!!!!!

Yep. As stated earlier, i think Fuelmoto will get us to 40+ with further refinements to our map data base(s), better air, and possibly the filter pods or other things we will discover through continuous R&D. :thumbup:

Yep. As stated earlier, i think Fuelmoto will get us to 40+ with further refinements to our map data base(s), better air, and possibly the filter pods or other things we will discover through continuous R&D. :thumbup:

Great information thank you for sharing with us all. Was this AF adjustments only?

Bet the OP can't wait to get his hands on one...

...yeah, especially after all that leg humping. :rolleyes:

I wish but with the new law I think police will be revenue happy enough seeing a modded bike. That ultra high is a real looker though. :]

I wish but with the new law I think police will be revenue happy enough seeing a modded bike. That ultra high is a real looker though. :]

Unless your bike was made after january first 2013, your motorcycle is exempt from the new db law.

That's not entirely true, as listed here (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=611428&postcount=85). But let's please leave the CA law discussion in that other thread.

Perfect! I am in. I will want to get the pod filters as well. As this is what I have on my custom fuel injection Ninja 250R. Do you think the Power Command V with ignition controls will provide a little more torque if you advance the timing? Otherwise I will do the micro fuel moto?

As stated in post (90), we really just stick with just A/F mapping. We just don't see huge differences when adjusting timing in most cases, along with the potential consequences noted. When Dynojet adjusted timing on the euro 250I version, they did not note any significant changes. So there is the "assuming" the 300 will be similar in that regard. We've seen excellent increases across the board with A/F mapping. We'll be sticking with that for now. :thumbup:

That being said, when we get the bike and production systems to Fuelmoto for additional map R&D, and to also test the airbox delete mod, they will also be checking timing adjustments on a PCV. It's always possible to see additional improvments with Timing, but it will be surprising if it does. ;)

The FI Micro Programmer is the way to go. It's smaller, user friendly, and costs about $60 or so (street price) less than a PCV. You also get a two year warranty on it. :thumbup:

Great information thank you for sharing with us all. Was this AF adjustments only?

Yep. A/F only. Along with numerous adjustments/changes to the exhaust design as we went along with the R&D process ;).

You said before, full system will not be a lot more than the 250 full system correct?
And we are about 8 weeks from any units shipping out?

You said before, full system will not be a lot more than the 250 full system correct?
And we are about 8 weeks from any units shipping out?

From post #98 - "We estimate the prices on the exhaust will be similar to our 250 race systems. The 300 is much more complex to build, but it should be similar." In addition, we hope to firm all the pricing structures up later this week. :thumbup:

Yes, we estimate about 8 weeks before being ready for shipping.

Hey Kerry, in your opinion, what do you think the motor can reach with a bit more work? (pistons, head work) think it can hit 50 with the right compression on pump gas? Stock pistons are only 10.5:1 right?

awesome, the pricing on your 250 exhausts is very reasonable, but how thorough you guys seem with the 300 lead me to believe it might be 1,000+ for the new exhaust. I think your exhaust will be flying off the shelves. Please let me know as soon as a preorder is available :)

Hey Kerry, in your opinion, what do you think the motor can reach with a bit more work? (pistons, head work) think it can hit 50 with the right compression on pump gas? Stock pistons are only 10.5:1 right?

Well naturally aspirated, I don't think so with any remote reliablility....;)

Compression would be the first place I would personally start if I was going internal mods. Whether that be through higher compression pistons and tighter squish areas, or simply through alternative thickness head gaskets. I would then explore low octane, high oxygen content race fuels with proper mapping.

With the current rev ceiling, I would be cautious about valve size and cam lift/durations/lobe centers. It would take some R&D to determine those results and/or pitfalls that may show up. When you start pumping in those possible improvements, it may start showing lower end stress with the longer stroke motor. So looking at stronger connecting rods and/or crank mods may be necessary. We also would not know what the clutch and related components would endure. It's really one of those things that just takes R&D and blowing up some motors to aquire the data and perameter limits. ;)

awesome, the pricing on your 250 exhausts is very reasonable, but how thorough you guys seem with the 300 lead me to believe it might be 1,000+ for the new exhaust. I think your exhaust will be flying off the shelves. Please let me know as soon as a preorder is available :)

Thank you for the comments. :)

Below are our dyno graphs from our initial R&D tuning sessions.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc29b3127ccef185c07eea0300000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Run # 3 - Baseline stock run OEM exhaust. Run #56 - Area P Standard Mount System, Standard Muffler. FI Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed. K&N Filter Panel direct replacement. Run #80 -Area P Ultra High Mount System, Fi Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement. Run #90 - Area P Standard System, Long Quiet Muffler, FI Micro Programmer, Snorkel removed, K&N Filter Panel direct replacement. As you can note, all versions of the Area P systems, with proper mapping, have very similiar performance characteristics. Especially noting that the Standard System with Long Quiet Muffler being very quiet as compared, yet offers excellent performance.


The colors aren't the easiest to see, but it looks like the Long Quiet muffler had the most area under the curve, yes?

The colors aren't the easiest to see, but it looks like the Long Quiet muffler had the most area under the curve, yes?

Actually no not correct. The Standard system with Long Quiet Muffler has one of the smoothest overall powerbands. Here's the graph (below) with only those two on them so you can see them easier. Some of the other ones are what we call "pipey", where they hit a little harder and more abruptly (which we like also). As we've noted, further improvements will be had as we continue building our map database for all these systems. :thumbup:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc31b3127ccef1811805a69700000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

almost hitting 40 with the air box is pretty impressive. can't wait for the results with the pods and tuning.:D

Hi Kerry,

I just want to add my thanks for your helpfulness and thoroughness. One question: have you or any colleagues ridden the bike yet? Although dynos are fun and all, I'm always more interested in what a real rider has to report based on the good ol' 'butt dyno'. :D

Congratulations on your successes with the bike!

Hi Kerry,

I just want to add my thanks for your helpfulness and thoroughness. One question: have you or any colleagues ridden the bike yet? Although dynos are fun and all, I'm always more interested in what a real rider has to report based on the good ol' 'butt dyno'. :D

Congratulations on your successes with the bike!

Thank you. And very fair question. We completely believe in the "butt dyno" as well. Yes, I personally rode with every system. It very much feels like two different bikes. I feel it as low as 4k, but I'm a little more sensitive to that. When it starts to really come up on the powerband especially around 7k, it's easy to feel the difference without the dyno. And it continues building up to 11500 at peak. But even at the soft limiter of 12500, it still feels like it's building because there is so little drop off. That's what we call "over-rev". So for example on the race track, it helps in not having to grab another gear between corners that might unload/unsettle the suspension. You can hold it on longer, because there is less drop off. The stocker drops off significantly at the soft-limiter (more than 2 hp) and it's really noticable (no reason to rev it over 10750, because it's dropping pretty fast). The Area P system only drops off a few tenths at the soft limiter. To me, these increases are definetly more pronounced on small displacement bikes (over large displacement bikes), because starting off with a smaller number, makes those increases easier to "feel" in the "butt dyno". And quite honestly, we can also "feel" them on the Dyno as well. :thumbup:

Actually no not correct. The Standard system with Long Quiet Muffler has one of the smoothest overall powerbands. Here's the graph (below) with only those two on them so you can see them easier. Some of the other ones are what we call "pipey", where they hit a little harder and more abruptly (which we like also). As we've noted, further improvements will be had as we continue building our map database for all these systems. :thumbup:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc31b3127ccef1811805a69700000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Thanks. It looks like that's the one that has the best gain in the midrange RPM [6-9k], but gives up a little bit vs. your other offerings at the top end.

Any pics of the primary/collector yet, or is that still under wraps? I'm assuming these are all non-catted offerings?

Any pics of the primary/collector yet, or is that still under wraps? I'm assuming these are all non-catted offerings?

Yep, all kinds of detail pix. But respectfully no, we're not going to post them. We have far too much into our R&D efforts to do the competition any favors. When we have the production systems available, we'll show them at that time. ;) And no, none of our full systems have cats.

.... I would then explore low octane, high oxygen content race fuels with proper mapping.



Have you done any testing with ethanol free 87 octane on either the 300 or 250? If you have what were the results. I've been running e-free 87 for a while in my 250 and notice a slight difference between that and e-10 87 Octane.

The Standard system with Long Quiet Muffler has one of the smoothest overall powerbands.


Glad to hear and happy to see as I wanted the standard long quiet muffler and I also was hoping for a smooth overall powerband. +4hp gain is not too bad for that setup, and it will be interesting to see if further map and air RnD can bring another HP to it.

My savings account is ready to cough up the $ at any time lol

Thank you. And very fair question. We completely believe in the "butt dyno" as well. Yes, I personally rode with every system. It very much feels like two different bikes. I feel it as low as 4k, but I'm a little more sensitive to that. When it starts to really come up on the powerband especially around 7k, it's easy to feel the difference without the dyno. And it continues building up to 11500 at peak. But even at the soft limiter of 12500, it still feels like it's building because there is so little drop off. That's what we call "over-rev". So for example on the race track, it helps in not having to grab another gear between corners that might unload/unsettle the suspension. You can hold it on longer, because there is less drop off. The stocker drops off significantly at the soft-limiter (more than 2 hp) and it's really noticable (no reason to rev it over 10750, because it's dropping pretty fast). The Area P system only drops off a few tenths at the soft limiter. To me, these increases are definetly more pronounced on small displacement bikes (over large displacement bikes), because starting off with a smaller number, makes those increases easier to "feel" in the "butt dyno". And quite honestly, we can also "feel" them on the Dyno as well. :thumbup:

You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. :thumbup:

Have you done any testing with ethanol free 87 octane on either the 300 or 250? If you have what were the results. I've been running e-free 87 for a while in my 250 and notice a slight difference between that and e-10 87 Octane.

Not specifically knowing that is ethanol free. Since it's pretty much a given that most of us will have to fill up with a blend of up to 10 %, but not knowing the exact percentage, it would be really impractical to test on street driven vehicles with so many other contributing factors.

Yep, all kinds of detail pix. But respectfully no, we're not going to post them. We have far too much into our R&D efforts to do the competition any favors. When we have the production systems available, we'll show them at that time. ;) And no, none of our full systems have cats.

Fair enough, I understand. I'll look forward to when these hit the marketplace!

Hi Kerry,

One question that I forgot to ask was: Do you have a block-off plate when you ran the Ninja 300 on the dynos?

http://www.drivenracing.com/grphx/products/dsb-2-image-001.jpg

Did you do any dyno runs without doing a remap? Just wondering what the gain is with a stock map

Did you do any dyno runs without doing a remap? Just wondering what the gain is with a stock map

Checkout post 144 he provides baseline dyno results for each result set.

Hi Kerry,

One question that I forgot to ask was: Do you have a block-off plate when you ran the Ninja 300 on the dyno



We always pinch-off the Fresh Air tube on any/all bikes we are tuning so as to not get any false A/F readings. So we do not have to install "block-off plates" on every bike. ;)

Checkout post 144 he provides baseline dyno results for each result set.

Should have worded that better sorry, I was wondering if they did any dyno run with just the exhaust, with no micro tuner, I was curious to see how much the full system makes without the tuner, and just the k&n drop in filter.

Should have worded that better sorry, I was wondering if they did any dyno run with just the exhaust, with no micro tuner, I was curious to see how much the full system makes without the tuner, and just the k&n drop in filter.

That would damage the engine from running too lean

Should have worded that better sorry, I was wondering if they did any dyno run with just the exhaust, with no micro tuner, I was curious to see how much the full system makes without the tuner, and just the k&n drop in filter.

I am sure he can chime in to confirm but without tuning the k&n drop in will yield no real gain and possibly worse results.

Should have worded that better sorry, I was wondering if they did any dyno run with just the exhaust, with no micro tuner, I was curious to see how much the full system makes without the tuner, and just the k&n drop in filter.

No problem. ;) Essentially, it would be pointless to design a full performance exhaust system without making adjustments to the A/F curve to take full advantage of this. Perhaps the best example is to look at the first graph where we ran the oem system; then oem system with the Micro Programmer and mapping. Big difference. So the stock A/F curve leaves alot of room for improvement, even with the oem exhaust system. You could definetly run a Slip-On without an issue, since a Slip-On really does not change the performance (as noted on one of the other graphs).

As far as the filter goes, actually the K&N replacement panel shows much better improvement on the 300, with the snorkel removed, than it did on the 250. I don't know if they changed the foam durometer or what on the oem filter, or perhaps it's just something to do with overall changes on the 300 (FI, throttle body size, intake velocity, displacement, etc.), but the K&N definetly shows better results on our test subject. Don't soak it to death with the filter oil may also assist with that. The oem filter seemed to be really "wet" on our test bike.

No problem. ;) Essentially, it would be pointless to design a full performance exhaust system without making adjustments to the A/F curve to take full advantage of this. Perhaps the best example is to look at the first graph where we ran the oem system; then oem system with the Micro Programmer and mapping. Big difference. So the stock A/F curve leaves alot of room for improvement, even with the oem exhaust system. You could definetly run a Slip-On without an issue, since a Slip-On really does not change the performance (as noted on one of the other graphs).

As far as the filter goes, actually the K&N replacement panel shows much better improvement on the 300, with the snorkel removed, than it did on the 250. I don't know if they changed the foam durometer or what on the oem filter, or perhaps it's just something to do with overall changes on the 300 (FI, throttle body size, intake velocity, displacement, etc.), but the K&N definetly shows better results on our test subject. Don't soak it to death with the filter oil may also assist with that. The oem filter seemed to be really "wet" on our test bike.

In regards to the drop in improvements that was with tuning correct? On the automotive side ECU maps tend to run pretty rich in certain cases so a drop in filter without tuning isn't a big concern motor wise but it does lean it out a bit. Is that the same case with these smaller motors? And if so does that bit of leaning help them?

In regards to the drop in improvements that was with tuning correct? On the automotive side ECU maps tend to run pretty rich in certain cases so a drop in filter without tuning isn't a big concern motor wise but it does lean it out a bit. Is that the same case with these smaller motors? And if so does that bit of leaning help them?

Yes absolutely correct. But it's a add & remove factoring for mapping, along with other adjustments in between depending on the other combinations. The oem curve is somewhat lean to rich untouched. We did not really notice those improvements with the filter alone, until we removed the snorkel and started developing map bases. So it's fair to say that mapping allowed the benefits of a less restrictive filter to take affect.

Yes absolutely correct. But it's a add & remove factoring for mapping, along with other adjustments in between depending on the other combinations. The oem curve is somewhat lean to rich untouched. We did not really notice those improvements with the filter alone, until we removed the snorkel and started developing map bases. So it's fair to say that mapping allowed the benefits of a less restrictive filter to take affect.

Do you think it will be possible making an E85 map with stock injectors?

Do you think it will be possible making an E85 map with stock injectors?

Sure. It's a matter of getting a bike in, completely draining the fuel system/tank, and confirming that we are putting in 100% E85. We can then develop a map for that particular blend. :thumbup:

I'm still riding my '08 with carbon QC, which I'm very happy with. If I get the opportunity to get a '13+ in the future, this will certainly one of the first upgrades I plan on. As long as AreaP keeps being awesome, I won't even look at competitors. They proved themselves the first time around. :thumbup:

Hi Kerry~

Question for you... did you see any performance gains with the high mount like you did with the standard? Thanks in advance :)

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc29b3127ccef184ea6dca4900000030O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Hi Kerry~

Question for you... did you see any performance gains with the high mount like you did with the standard? Thanks in advance :)

You bet. Check out post 144 for all graphs & data:thumbup:

Link to Sales info - :thumbup:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120691

Link to Sales info - :thumbup:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120691

Thanks Kerry mine is ordered up.

Any word on when we get to see a price for the systems?

Any word on when we get to see a price for the systems?

Should be posting them later today. :thumbup:

Any word on when we get to see a price for the systems?

Introductory prices will range from $525.00 for the Full Standard Mount System with Stainless Steel Muffler - To $595.00 for the Full Ultra High Mount System with Carbon Fiber Muffler.

We'll also be offering a special "pre-production" sale exclusively for ninjette.org members on these systems. We'll be trying a new program that will be more flexiable than a normal GB (that can be quite cumbersome to administrate). We'll be working out the details next month. Systems are currently scheduled for release in February as previously indicated. :thumbup:

Introductory prices will range from $525.00 for the Full Standard Mount System with Stainless Steel Muffler - To $595.00 for the Full Ultra High Mount System with Carbon Fiber Muffler.

We'll also be offering a special "pre-production" sale exclusively for ninjette.org members on these systems. We'll be trying a new program that will be more flexiable than a normal GB (that can be quite cumbersome to administrate). We'll be working out the details next month. Systems are currently scheduled for release in February as previously indicated. :thumbup:

Awesome! That's a great price, then all that's needed is the fi micro tuner right? (Another 300 ish?)

awesome! That's a great price, then all that's needed is the fi micro tuner right? (another 300 ish?)

$249.95 ;)

When will the tuners be ready to ship?

When will the tuners be ready to ship?

Been ready since 13th. See post #193. :thumbup:

Been ready since 13th. See post #193. :thumbup:

Any charges for later versions of tunes or for adjustments to a tune?

Any charges for later versions of tunes or for adjustments to a tune?

Absolutely none what-so-ever. :thumbup:

Absolutely none what-so-ever. :thumbup:

Hi Kerry,

So I decided to go with the power commander 5 because I had to use an old store credit. I also got the quick shifter, rev limiter increase, and the ignition timing just for a liitle fun. I know on one of the post that there will be maps made for the power commander 5. Who would I get them from you guys or fuel moto? I want the stainless ultra high mount when it becomes available for pre-order. Also when will the pre-orders start?

Thanks,

David

Hi Kerry,

So I decided to go with the power commander 5 because I had to use an old store credit. I also got the quick shifter, rev limiter increase, and the ignition timing just for a liitle fun. I know on one of the post that there will be maps made for the power commander 5. Who would I get them from you guys or fuel moto? I want the stainless ultra high mount when it becomes available for pre-order. Also when will the pre-orders start?

Thanks,

David

Hi David - PC5 maps will be available from both Area P & Fuel Moto. A "Pre-order" program for the exhaust systems will be announced next month (noted in post #197). :thumbup:

Introductory prices will range from $525.00 for the Full Standard Mount System with Stainless Steel Muffler - To $595.00 for the Full Ultra High Mount System with Carbon Fiber Muffler.

We'll also be offering a special "pre-production" sale exclusively for ninjette.org members on these systems. We'll be trying a new program that will be more flexiable than a normal GB (that can be quite cumbersome to administrate). We'll be working out the details next month. Systems are currently scheduled for release in February as previously indicated. :thumbup:

Just a thought, any chance on giving a "group discount" on products to members of Ninjette - like a typical group buy discount but that could be applied to any product/purchase, at any time, maybe one per member or something.

I currently have a quiet core full system on my ninjette which I love, and have been thinking about the possibility of getting your slip on for my 6R instead of another brand when I mod the bike in support of what your guys do for the small bike communitiy. No one here is ever going to group buy that product though. :(

Anyways, just a thought ;). Keep up the great work :thumbup:.

Just a thought, any chance on giving a "group discount" on products to members of Ninjette - like a typical group buy discount but that could be applied to any product/purchase, at any time, maybe one per member or something.

I currently have a quiet core full system on my ninjette which I love, and have been thinking about the possibility of getting your slip on for my 6R instead of another brand when I mod the bike in support of what your guys do for the small bike communitiy. No one here is ever going to group buy that product though. :(

Anyways, just a thought ;). Keep up the great work :thumbup:.

Thank you for the comments. No sorry, we won't be offering a program like your suggestion. But I believe the program we will be announcing for the introduction of the new 300 exhaust systems will be a good one and continue to show our support of ninjette.org members. :thumbup:

If you would like to send a PM on which 6R you have and year, I can see what options may be available to you. ;)

Thank you for the comments. No sorry, we won't be offering a program like your suggestion. But I believe the program we will be announcing for the introduction of the new 300 exhaust systems will be a good one and continue to show our support of ninjette.org members. :thumbup:

If you would like to send a PM on which 6R you have and year, I can see what options may be available to you. ;)

10-4, PM sent. :D

Hello. I'm curious when Fuelmoto/Area P may release some more R&D results. I am specifically interested in what benefit to the dyno curve the K&N pod filter may bring. I plan on going with the standard 18" quiet core, and am wondering if I should buy the pod filter or not. Obviously I am just being impatient since I have to wait for the exhaust anyhow lol. I received the fuelmoto FI programmer today and it looks like a very nice, high quality unit and nice connectors.

Hello. I'm curious when Fuelmoto/Area P may release some more R&D results. I am specifically interested in what benefit to the dyno curve the K&N pod filter may bring. I plan on going with the standard 18" quiet core, and am wondering if I should buy the pod filter or not. Obviously I am just being impatient since I have to wait for the exhaust anyhow lol. I received the fuelmoto FI programmer today and it looks like a very nice, high quality unit and nice connectors.

We currently have a bike scheduled for the Fuel Moto facility in mid-Feb. They will be conducting tests on our production systems in perfect air and with the K&N Filter Pod (airbox delete). We are confident that 40+ hp can be attained with the Area P exhaust, FI Micro Programmer, K&N Filter Pod, and Fuel Moto mapping. And thank you for the comments on the FI Programmer. It is indeed a very nice unit, and why we confidently offer a two year warranty with it and full on-going map support. :thumbup:

Web page now up :thumbup:

http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-Ninja-300-2013.php

kbryant I saw on the page for the ultra hi mount you need a fender eliminator, and says you used the targa one, but I was wondering if the yoshimura eliminator would be usable? Also do we have to change the signals? Or can we use the stock ones on a eliminator?

kbryant I saw on the page for the ultra hi mount you need a fender eliminator, and says you used the targa one, but I was wondering if the yoshimura eliminator would be usable? Also do we have to change the signals? Or can we use the stock ones on a eliminator?

Really could not say if the Yoshimura version would fit or not, since we only tried the Targa version (which was also the only one available at the time). They do look very similar, except for the turn signals. For turn signals, we utilized what Targa supplied in the kit, which are short stalks and obviously smaller turn signal assemblies. The Yosh kit shows it with oem turn signals which are much larger and may require fabricating somekind of bracket(s) to re-position them. There are going to be so many different fender eliminator kits on the market, it simply isn't possible for us to try them all. But with the minor variences likely, it would appear to be something fairly easy to remedy. So all we can confirm is that the Targa kit fit perfectly and is a very nice kit for the money. We're not endorsing it as the only one per say (we purchased our kit), just the one we actually fit up and tried. :thumbup:

I thought I would post on here rather than email you so others can benifit from the answer. You set me up with a tuner for my M4 full exhaust system and K&N Panel Filter. I just ordered the K&N pod filter the "R-0990". Since you do not have a map for this yet, any idea what I should manually adjust my tuner to? Or should I just not even touch it until you have a chance to test it all out??

I thought I would post on here rather than email you so others can benifit from the answer. You set me up with a tuner for my M4 full exhaust system and K&N Panel Filter. I just ordered the K&N pod filter the "R-0990". Since you do not have a map for this yet, any idea what I should manually adjust my tuner to? Or should I just not even touch it until you have a chance to test it all out??

No problem. I would really hesitate to speculate until we test it later next month. The bike we have lined up for our partner Fuel Moto to test with, is going to have R&D done with our production system, airbox removed and R-0990 pod installed along with several other additional tests. We have 8 maps now to work with, but the airbox delete will be dramatically different. So you have two choices:

1. Wait until we get it on the Dyno and write perfect maps without guessing or assuming later next month. Or...

2. Go ahead and install it, I can send you a richer map base for you to try. Then you can tell me what it's doing or not doing, and we can work from there.

But again, it would be much more accurate and less risky if you wait until we actually test it later next month. ;)

Hmmm.. Maybe I will just wait to on the install until you get the base map made for it then, then I can "set it and forget it" then both of us dont need to hassle with the back and forth on a questionable map.

For the IAT sensor are you just going to drill a hole in the filter for it?

I installed a smog block off already and it fixxed my decel popping issues.. I messaged you about this and you said my popping could be from a poor gasket or smog.. My problem was both I removed the smog and it still popped.. Then after re-torquing the system bolts the popping stopped..

As for the crank case breather would that also just need a mini air filter on it? I may need to relocate it higher to keep it dry, I ride ALOT in the rain so I want to keep everything dry. Or does the crank case vent need to be plumbed into the air filter as well?

Which system would be less likely to interfere with VERY high (50mm+ back/50mm+ up, track use only) rearsets?

For the IAT sensor are you just going to drill a hole in the filter for it?

As for the crank case breather would that also just need a mini air filter on it? I may need to relocate it higher to keep it dry, I ride ALOT in the rain so I want to keep everything dry. Or does the crank case vent need to be plumbed into the air filter as well?

We'll be confirming the IAT location once we bring the bike back in for check-fitting the production systems and testing/mapping with the airbox removed.

Yes, a small crankcase breather element will need to be installed onto the crankcase vent or vent tube. No, you do not want to vent it directly into the K&N air filter pod.

Which system would be less likely to interfere with VERY high (50mm+ back/50mm+ up, track use only) rearsets?

Hard to say. That's alot (almost 2" both ways). It would depend on the backing plate design and clevis location for the brake slave cylinder. Most likely the standard mount. The ultra high mount of course has tigher tolerances inherent with this design. But there is some adjustement with both systems. We always try to keep rearsets in mind, as do the rearset designers themselves. But there are so many different combinations of rearsets, it's simply not possible to check them all.

Would it be possible NOT to install the IAT sensor into the back of the K&N pod filter? I would really like to use a outwear pre-filters on my pod filter.

http://www.outerwearsracing.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4128

But the IAT sensor would require cutting a hole into the pre-filter.. Can I just zip tie the sensor to the frame or something similar?

My last post did not show up.. In short.. Is there a way NOT to mount the IAT sensor inside the pod filter? That would allow me to use a pre-filter..

I would really like to use a pre-filter to calm my nerves about riding in the crappy weather here in WA :)

As a user of a K&N R-0990, unless you plan on going swimming with your ninjette, you'll be fine using it in rainy weather. I'm not sure why using a pre-filter over the outside of the R-0990 would restrict you from putting your IAT in the incoming air stream :confused:

I would have to cut a hole in the pre-filter to fit the iat sensor..

either that or extend the wires so there is enough wire to route the sensor to different location..

It would be nice if I could route it around and mount it to the front side of the filter, between the throttle bodies..

I dunno I just feel more comfortable with my open element filters if I have a pre-filter on them, I have them on all my vehicles which have aftermarket air intake systems.

My last post did not show up.. In short.. Is there a way NOT to mount the IAT sensor inside the pod filter? That would allow me to use a pre-filter..

I would really like to use a pre-filter to calm my nerves about riding in the crappy weather here in WA :)

As indicated, when we get the bike back in, we will then confirm where we will mount the IAT Sensor. It may not have to be mounted on/in the filter at all. But we really don't guess at these kinds of things. We do thourgh R&D first, then we'll release the results. :thumbup:

Utilizing a filter charger or pre-filter wrap would not affect how it may be mounted anyway. Simple enough to cut a small slit and insert it so it closes around it anyway. Keep in mind the filter chargers are primarily for heavy dust areas and may also affect the intake flow (and the mapping) from a "non-wrapped" filter. They are not water proof (just "water repellent"). You are much better off simply paying attention to the condition of your filter, clean and oil it properly and you'll be fine. The filter assembly is not fully exposed to the elements. It's reasonably protected within the centerline of the bike, seat, tank, side covers, legs/knees, etc. :thumbup:

gotcha.. just getting a head of myself on planning.. i tend to do that with parts on the way haha

I ripped out my air box over the weekend since my bike is having some down time.. What a pain to remove it!! Its really crammed in there!!

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, but I'd like to know if the ultra high mount will work with the SV Racing rearsets, and that there are no clearance issues. Anyone tried this combo yet?

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, but I'd like to know if the ultra high mount will work with the SV Racing rearsets, and that there are no clearance issues. Anyone tried this combo yet?

See post 219 above. If you would like to send me a few pictures of the rearsets installed with your stock pipe, I'd be happy to give you an opinion. :thumbup: sales@areapnolimits.com

Thanks Kerry. I haven't actually got the rear sets yet. I'm still in the planning stages of the mods I'd like to do and wanted to check compatibility before committing to any purchases.

Hmmm.. Maybe I will just wait to on the install until you get the base map made for it then, then I can "set it and forget it" then both of us dont need to hassle with the back and forth on a questionable map.

For the IAT sensor are you just going to drill a hole in the filter for it?

I installed a smog block off already and it fixxed my decel popping issues.. I messaged you about this and you said my popping could be from a poor gasket or smog.. My problem was both I removed the smog and it still popped.. Then after re-torquing the system bolts the popping stopped..

As for the crank case breather would that also just need a mini air filter on it? I may need to relocate it higher to keep it dry, I ride ALOT in the rain so I want to keep everything dry. Or does the crank case vent need to be plumbed into the air filter as well?

I installed my IAT sensor on the top of my left pod filter because the length of the wiring is short. Here a pic of it. Another pic of my autotune O2 sensor and sneak peak of the bike coming together, just waiting on carbon fiber and Area P Ultra high Stainless Exhaust.

Thanks for the update David, is there any chance you can take pics in better light? I can't see the sensor at all in your pics. :thumbup:

you don't see the sensor he added to the air filter??? You can see 1 filter has a device on it, while the other doesn't.. that device is it.

diwhiteii it looks like it's coming along nicely! I see lots of aftermarket stuff on that bike. :thumbup:

Your solution to the IAT sensor is the same that many of the EcoTrons users have done. I chose to place mine in the runner so I didn't have to place the sensor in the filter (that way it was easier if I ever decided to go back to the airbox) but some have done it the same way you did without any issue.

Looking good.

I installed my IAT sensor on the top of my left pod filter because the length of the wiring is short. Here a pic of it. Another pic of my autotune O2 sensor and sneak peak of the bike coming together, just waiting on carbon fiber and Area P Ultra high Stainless Exhaust.

what made you choose 2 small filters over the single one large one?

what made you choose 2 small filters over the single one large one?

I like the look of two filters over the single and I have dual filters on my Ninja 250R. Those were my only reasons.

I like the look of two filters over the single and I have dual filters on my Ninja 250R. Those were my only reasons.

Looks good, will filter removal for cleaning require the side fairing come off?

kbryant,

Maybe I missed it, but last I read, you guys were still waiting on your tuner for maps to use with the K&N Pod filters. Have you guys gotten that all sorted out?

I've been reading more about clean air from the airbox vs dirty air from pod filters and which gives more power vs consistent fueling. It's all rather confusing and theoretical. I was just wondering what you guys have found on that front in the form of dyno results and AFR changes when switching to pods.

kbryant,

Maybe I missed it, but last I read, you guys were still waiting on your tuner for maps to use with the K&N Pod filters. Have you guys gotten that all sorted out?

I've been reading more about clean air from the airbox vs dirty air from pod filters and which gives more power vs consistent fueling. It's all rather confusing and theoretical. I was just wondering what you guys have found on that front in the form of dyno results and AFR changes when switching to pods.

Hi Chris,

Primarily in posts 144 & 210 - We're the actual designers, manufactor and "Tuners". But our partner with the FI Micro Programmer (Fuel Moto) will be getting our first production system later next month and will doing the next level of testing/mapping with the airbox removed & filter pod installed, as well as more maps created in better air. We'll then have a really large base of maps to work with. Although the 300 will adjust somewhat to changing conditions, it does not have a "closed-loop" system and/or wideband capacity (as stock/supplied). So we're creating alot of map bases to work with from enviornment changes as well. We currently have 9 or 10 different maps, and that does not count the individual map changes we make for a person's particular enviornment or conditions. We have the bike lined up for Fuel Moto when we send them the first system later next month.

There is a dramatic difference in available intake volume & sometimes intake velocity between the oem box and filter pods. We did enough preliminary testing to determine that opening up the airbox and further new mapping yielded even better results. So we know the Filter Pod and correct mapping will yield further improvements as well. There's also obvious differences in temps (cool air/hot air), but let's try to keep it simply since we have a fairly simple intake design, in a non-ram air scenario ;) There is a large difference in mapping the A/F curve between these. For a simple comparision, look at the differences between the 250 with/without the airbox. Carburated of course, but primarily on the main jet side of things, it's very common to go up 4 or 5 sizes. That's alot!

The filter pods don't have "dirty air" per say (or you better hope they don't...;)). You are correct when you say "It's all rather confusing and theoretical", but we try very hard to take most of the "theoretical" out of the equation through "less talking, more testing" :thumbup:

Very cool, thanks Kerry.

Thanks for the update David, is there any chance you can take pics in better light? I can't see the sensor at all in your pics. :thumbup:

Here is a better picture of the IAT sensor and a picture of my crankcase breather filter. Also just a FYI... I have a california model and needed to ground out the purge valve sensor and the air switching valve to fix the service light from remaining on and for the bike to run properly with my dynojet autotune.

Looks good, will filter removal for cleaning require the side fairing come off?

Thanks. You will need to remove the side panels that attach right under the seat for cleaning, but not the main fairings. I have mine off because I am heading to Motion Pro tomorrow to have custom cables made for their revolver throttle kit and they need the bike stripped down, even the tank must come off.

diwhiteii it looks like it's coming along nicely! I see lots of aftermarket stuff on that bike. :thumbup:

Your solution to the IAT sensor is the same that many of the EcoTrons users have done. I chose to place mine in the runner so I didn't have to place the sensor in the filter (that way it was easier if I ever decided to go back to the airbox) but some have done it the same way you did without any issue.

Looking good.

Thanks! This is going to be my second masterpiece. My custom 2009 fuel injection Ninja 250R was my first, but I am taking this one to a whole new level.

Thanks! This is going to be my second masterpiece. My custom 2009 fuel injection Ninja 250R was my first, but I am taking this one to a whole new level.

Thanks for your input David, I stuck my IAT sensor today in pretty much the same spot as you. Cheers!!!

Here is a better picture of the IAT sensor and a picture of my crankcase breather filter. Also just a FYI... I have a california model and needed to ground out the purge valve sensor and the air switching valve to fix the service light from remaining on and for the bike to run properly with my dynojet autotune.

If you removed your air switching valve, what did you mount your air pressure sensor on?

I left the switching valve in place and left it hooked up just so I didnt get my check engine light, plus the air pressor sensor was handing from it.. I removed the hoses though.. Then I installed a SSR 250R block off plate, it fit great, oddly the Driven 250R plate did not fit..

Thanks. You will need to remove the side panels that attach right under the seat for cleaning, but not the main fairings. I have mine off because I am heading to Motion Pro tomorrow to have custom cables made for their revolver throttle kit and they need the bike stripped down, even the tank must come off.

Good to hear. I'll be going this route then too. Thanks.

Last night I installed my pod filter, and then juts zip tired the IAT sensor up under the tank just to get it out of the way as I was just test fitting the filter..

Started it up and reved it a few times, I expected it to be louder.. Maybe it will on the street, but it did not sound any different than before the mod..

Wait until you get the mixture right and you get it WOT at 10k+ You'll hear a few more dB's of howling :)

You might want to at least tape the IAT to the outside of the pod. Putting it up under the tank might trap it in some hot air from the engine and make the ECU think the bike is sucking in warmer air than it really is.

While I don't have a 300, I do have an FI 250r, which is closer to the 300, both being fuel injected. I found two possible pipes I might need to plug/put a breather on. One was above the cylinders and one was right in front of the rear shock. I have plugged the one on top of the cylinders and have yet to procure a filter for the other one. I also put in the IAT sensor on the pod by drilling a small hole in it.

Plugged with some rubber sheet and a clamp.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j44/psych0hans/Ninja%20250r/file-164.jpg

Should I block this also, or should I put a breather on it?
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j44/psych0hans/Ninja%20250r/file-163.jpg

IAT sensor on the pod filter
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j44/psych0hans/Ninja%20250r/FFA80DC5-B48F-4702-B35E-D01F150B4446-1192-0000008D462C33E7.jpg

Your second pic needs a breather filter, its the crank case vent..

Your first pic is the clean air system, you can plug is as yours is or get a block off plate..

If you removed your air switching valve, what did you mount your air pressure sensor on?

I left the switching valve in place and left it hooked up just so I didnt get my check engine light, plus the air pressor sensor was handing from it.. I removed the hoses though.. Then I installed a SSR 250R block off plate, it fit great, oddly the Driven 250R plate did not fit..

I have the SSR 250R block off plate as well. I removed the actual sensors and grounded them like this:

If you removed your air switching valve, what did you mount your air pressure sensor on?

I left the switching valve in place and left it hooked up just so I didnt get my check engine light, plus the air pressor sensor was handing from it.. I removed the hoses though.. Then I installed a SSR 250R block off plate, it fit great, oddly the Driven 250R plate did not fit..

Zipped tied to post see pics. Also tucked sensor plugs in see pics.