Hey everyone!! It seems like when I am taking turns I always lean in a little too hard and end up having to straighten out when I get midway through the turn. I like carving corners but I don't do it at like 90mph. I'm thinking I need to roll on the throttle more as I hit the apex, but I'm not quite sure what I am doing wrong. It feels good going into the turn, just not good coming out. I try to follow my lines, high in - high out and hit the apex, but like I said I end up having to back off a little to keep from taking the corner too tight. Any suggestions? Besides go read a book... :rolleyes:

It seems like when I am taking turns I always lean in a little too hard and end up having to straighten out when I get midway through the turn.

Dont lean in so hard on turn in.......

You may also be early-apexing a bit, turning in just a little earlier than you shoud, bringing you closer to the inside of the turn than you expected. Pushing the bars confidently will get you to the proper lean angle sooner than pressing them too gently, and getting to the proper lean angle sooner actually means that you will need less maximum lean angle for any given turn, and that's a good thing! :thumbup:

yes, you should be rolling on the throttle around the apex. that will naturally begin to pick the bike up as you finish the rest of your turn.

I tend to agree with you, but Keith Code just wrote up an article in Motorcyclist where he said that on a properly functioning sportbike, rolling on the throttle by itself while exiting a turn does nothing to lift the bike back up. His view is that riders are unconsciously providing bar pressure to lift the bike back up while they are also rolling on the throttle. :idunno:

yeah, he might be right. physics say that the bike wants to stand up when its in motion. rolling on the throttle might not make a big enough difference to matter, but it will change your exit line at least. keep going the same speed and you'll just keep circling with no bar inputs. get on the gas and centrifugal force pushes your turn wider.... in theory anyways. i really don't know what i'm talking about :D

I'd say, find a safe place and practice! Try different things and find what works for you...

Hey thanks guys!! I noticed it and I wanted to get rid of any bad habits before they started to become a problem. I talked to my boss (races go carts) and he said it sounds like I'm hitting the apex too early so I need to turn in a little later. I guess I just get so excited to get into the turn I forget what I'm supposed to do during it. Anyways, we'll see what happens. No riding for a while. Friday it's supposed to be 9 degrees. That's unheard of around here.

Besides go read a book... :rolleyes:

Yes, this is a book recommendation :p

Keith Code's Total Control changed my cornering forever. I didn't know what I was doing wrong till I read the book. Vastly improved my cornering. There's a great section on when to initiate the turn and how to hit the apex...

Out of all the MC books out there, I think this is the best for cornering.

Keith Code's Total Control

Actually, you're getting the book and author mixed up. Lee Parks wrote "Total Control" and Keith Code wrote "Twist of the Wrist". I have Parks' book and want to get Keith Code's second book "Twist of the Wrist 2":thumbup:

So which one has the good article on cornering then? I'm confused.

Your totally right... Lee Parks... He's the man! I haven't actually read "A Twist of the Wrist" yet. It's on my list of books to look for next time I go to Half Price Books...

Total Control is the book I was talking about. Just had the author wrong.

TnNinjaGirl..Total Control by Lee Parks is the book you want for cornering. One of Park's 10 rules that he wants you to "engrain in the brain" :) ha ha, I just made that up, is always keep the center of your body on the inside of the turn. Between the bike and the turn. His principles apply whether you are on a Harley or a Ninja of any kind. Look for it used at http://www.alibris.com/

beowuff..Twist of the Wrist2 is Keith Code's best book, according to a review I saw. I don't have any of his books, yet. I'm leaning (no pun intended) toward Wrist2. The reviewer said Code didn't completely grasp what he was trying to convey to the reader in the original "Wrist", but really made up for it in Wrist2.

Of course, everyone should read "Proficient Motorcycling" 2nd Edition by Hough, before any other book!

twist of the wrist is pretty good, but if i remember right it might be a little advanced for novice street use.

If it feels like you're falling over in a turn, go faster. >:]

Step one: Don't follow my lines - they don't know where they're going.

I agree with Alex... definitely sounds like you're early apexing. Don't focus so much on leaning the bike. Just throttle smoothly through the turn. Let your speed dictate how much you lean, not the other way around.

I like to practice on the 90 degree turn out in Hardin Valley. It's a nice, predictable turn with lots of room and visibility. There's a subdivision right down the road where you can turn around to hit it again the other way.

i read twist of the wrist when it first came out, and it made me a much better rider instantly. countersteering especially made the difference for me, but other information such as how the bike's suspension works, to road conditions...all good stuff. it IS abit advanced for the early rider, but it definately changed the way i operated my motorcycle, and probably saved my life! :thumbup:

i read twist of the wrist when it first came out, and it made me a much better rider instantly.

After a few drinks........... Taking Turns took on a whole new meaning :bathbaby:

i got a turning question as well...

how about a long left turn that tightens up later on? there is this one stretch of road that i rode. it is a two-lane road on a decline. it is a moderate arc that turns left, but halfway down the hill, unexpectedly tightened up. when i hit it that section of road, i was going at about 50-60 mph so i was afraid to get off of the throttle. my line was messed up and i was barely able to stay within my lane. i am just glad that there was no one in the lane next to me.

are there any easy techniques for that sort of condition? thanks in advance.

I always leave enough lean left in reserve for decreasing radius turns.

IMO, you shouldn't be going very fast coming into any given turn if you don't know what the whole turn is like or can't see it. Meaning, if a decreasing radius turn is coming up you should know it so you know not to be blasting through the first part of the turn only to meet the 2nd part of the turn and be in trouble. And if you don't know it's there, be going slow enough that you can just lean more when you hit the tighter part.

There's a few of these on the road I ride. I know it well enough that I can carry decent speed through the first part and know when I need to brake a little to bleed off speed for the tighter part. But I took it very slow until I remembered.

hang out by the white line a little longer and try to maintain a constant radius around the turn. I always try to stay a constant distance from the right hand edge of the road. Forget about apexing and just follow the road.

Hey everyone!! It seems like when I am taking turns I always lean in a little too hard and end up having to straighten out when I get midway through the turn.

was thinking about this and wanted to add that you might be fixating on the apex of the turn. we tend to go where we look, so you may wanna try looking through the turn. probably easier to do with corners you're familiar with of course, but this may be why you're coming in too...'steep'. :yo:

Twist of the wrist II, get on the brakes later, get on the gas sooner, hang to the outside till you can see through the corner, tip it in and get on the gas:thumbup:

i got a turning question as well...

How about a long left turn that tightens up later on? There is this one stretch of road that i rode. It is a two-lane road on a decline. It is a moderate arc that turns left, but halfway down the hill, unexpectedly tightened up. When i hit it that section of road, i was going at about 50-60 mph so i was afraid to get off of the throttle. My line was messed up and i was barely able to stay within my lane. I am just glad that there was no one in the lane next to me.

Are there any easy techniques for that sort of condition? Thanks in advance.

827

IMO, you shouldn't be going very fast coming into any given turn if you don't know what the whole turn is like or can't see it.

++++++1000

If you are on unfamiliar roads, slow down! If you find the road has fun curves when you've been on it a few times, THEN speed up.

Better alive and slow then fast and dead...

++++++1000

If you are on unfamiliar roads, slow down! If you find the road has fun curves when you've been on it a few times, THEN speed up.

Better alive and slow then fast and dead...

+1 ^ Take the first run on an unfamiliar road easy to get used to the turns and also to check for road hazards. According to Kieth codes suggestions, he states to try and picture your favorite track or even road in your head and use different reference points etc. to see where you can make a change to improve time.

Hey thanks guys!! I noticed it and I wanted to get rid of any bad habits before they started to become a problem. I talked to my boss (races go carts) and he said it sounds like I'm hitting the apex too early so I need to turn in a little later. I guess I just get so excited to get into the turn I forget what I'm supposed to do during it. Anyways, we'll see what happens. No riding for a while. Friday it's supposed to be 9 degrees. That's unheard of around here.


I had the same problem of hitting an apex too early. Although, I wasn't leaning in enough. If you view a corner, think of your lines, and try to go a little straighter, then make your turn a little later. (am I making sense? Maybe one of the other riders here can put it into a better perspective) This is where you can get a little more lean angle.

Also, how are you leaning into the corner? Are you shifting your bottom to the inside, or are you shifting your upper body, or both?

The thing about the 250 and corners is that you have to aim well. If you turn in too fast and find yourself drifting to the inside faster than you like, on a bigger bike you can just pick up the throttle a little bit and increase your corner speed to match. Not so much on the 250. You either hit your mark or you didn't. And if you didn't hit your mark, your drive is lost.

I agree... and that's what makes the 250 such a great learning tool! excellent observations. :thumbup:

I'm going to try lane positioning more. I usually find myself taking corners and choosing a line that is least likely to hit any gravel, even if there isnt any gravel in the road.

Another problem I have sometimes is taking sharp corners (about 90 degrees) too wide and getting too close to the edge of my lane before the turn is complete.

Another problem I have sometimes is taking sharp corners (about 90 degrees) too wide...

There are 3 things that I think would normally cause this...

1) Entering the corner too fast.
2) Not leaning the bike over enough.
3) Incorrect body position.

Again, the books above might help you figure out what's going wrong and give good suggestions on how to correct it.

I feel kind of stupid... The problem wasn't my riding style, it was the shock preload. It was set on 1 from the factory and that's where it stayed. Until the other day that is. Set it on 3 and wow is she a different bike. Seems like all my turning problems are gone. Weird.

Yay! It's not you! :lol:

I feel kind of stupid... The problem wasn't my riding style, it was the shock preload. It was set on 1 from the factory and that's where it stayed. Until the other day that is. Set it on 3 and wow is she a different bike. Seems like all my turning problems are gone. Weird.

can anyone explain this alittle?

setting the rear shock to a higher number makes it stiffer and as a result raises the back end of the bike a bit. In doing that, the front end (forks) get steeper and that allows the bike to turn a bit quicker.

I'm assuming TNG was feeling like the bike wouldn't turn, so raising the rear end preload helped her bike turn quicker and resulted in it being a bit more responsive to rider input in the turns.

It feels alot less "sloshy" in the turns. It's like it'd sink down and I felt like I needed to correct it by leaning in the turn less. I can now enter and exit the turns more aggressively because my suspension isn't sinking in and it's staying tight and firm. I think...

It feels alot less "sloshy" in the turns. It's like it'd sink down and I felt like I needed to correct it by leaning in the turn less. I can now enter and exit the turns more aggressively because my suspension isn't sinking in and it's staying tight and firm. I think...

Them's fightin' words! Dragooon ;)

I have read the posts and I do not have a lot of experience :eek: :eek: :eek: I was practicing my curves (getting much better :p ) and on my last semi-tight curve BAM! gravel -- I kept looking ahead and hoped for the best, but I really was not too sure at the moment if I was going to make it. I knew brakes would have been a major NO, I just eased off the throttle a hair and passed thru the gravel then went on my way -- I was not going fast since I am new with curves and I know later I will be going faster than 35 (I know I have to go faster), what do you do when you are going faster with gravel?

Does your foot pressure go light on the outside peg?

I don't think so, but remember I am new at this so I am not too sure what this has to do with it. I am not trying to be a smart*&* about it, I am just don't understand, so please do not be offended.

I find some new riders sometimes like being very aggressive on the inside peg (climbing to much too the inside of the bike), meaning your changing the centre of balance of the bike too much creating a sharper turn angle than required. If you notice your very heavy on the inside peg (please notice I said IF) your probably guilty of a bad centre of balance for the turn.

Even pressure on the pegs (think of not having a seat) and work the upper body more than the bottom. A lot of roads require continuous small adjusts through corners to maintain the turn angle required, without a stable bottom half it's hard to maintain and adjust with the top half.

This may be totally unrelated to your case though and you just may be too aggressive with your upper body (centre of balance), keep turning, your body will catch up ... :)

Just remember, work the bike, don't let it work you.

Hey everyone!! It seems like when I am taking turns I always lean in a little too hard and end up having to straighten out when I get midway through the turn. I like carving corners but I don't do it at like 90mph. I'm thinking I need to roll on the throttle more as I hit the apex, but I'm not quite sure what I am doing wrong. It feels good going into the turn, just not good coming out. I try to follow my lines, high in - high out and hit the apex, but like I said I end up having to back off a little to keep from taking the corner too tight. Any suggestions? Besides go read a book... :rolleyes:

For the street, I use a delayed apex (late turn in) riding style. This will maximize your vision through the corner and help you establish a line that will allow for good a good throttle roll and minimize steering corrections.

If you still have steering corrections one or more of the following could be off;
entry speed
turn in point
line selection
throttle control
body position
bike setup

i got a turning question as well...

how about a long left turn that tightens up later on? there is this one stretch of road that i rode. it is a two-lane road on a decline. it is a moderate arc that turns left, but halfway down the hill, unexpectedly tightened up. when i hit it that section of road, i was going at about 50-60 mph so i was afraid to get off of the throttle. my line was messed up and i was barely able to stay within my lane. i am just glad that there was no one in the lane next to me.

are there any easy techniques for that sort of condition? thanks in advance.

On the street, especially on an unknown road, slow down and leave some extra throttle roll, lean and skill left to handle the unexpected. Basically... never out drive your vision. If your up for something more advanced, look up the hook-turn.

can anyone explain this alittle?

Get your rear shock set. It's one of the best free mods you can do to improve the cornering performance of the ninja. Setting it is really easy too. Like nearly all motorcycles, the rear shock works best in its mid-stroke range while in motion. Use your spanner and turn that adjuster till you find that range.

I don't think so, but remember I am new at this so I am not too sure what this has to do with it. I am not trying to be a smart*&* about it, I am just don't understand, so please do not be offended.

Don't worry about weighting pegs if your new. Just worry about finding your riding position on the bike that gets your legs & torso supporting your body weight (not your arms).

I understand R1chronicles -- I don't think I put too much weight on my pegs, but then again, I have not really paid too much attention to them while making a curve or turn. I will try to notice when I ride next time and try to correct that. I do know that I have been hugging my gas tank with my legs alot more lately due to the fact that it seems to be helping with my butt "comfort" but also around curves and that has helped alot. I have also relaxed my shoulders and arms due to the strong gust of wind that blew me off the road and I failed to countersteer enough to correct it. So now I am tucking more to correct that and using my tank and knees to help me countersteer. Now I am just having to get my speed back up since I am still nervous with a strong gust of wind. I know the importance of "getting back on the horse", I so want to ride -- I realize it will take a little time to get my nerve back. :thumbup:

I like the "delayed apex approach" csmith, I will try that. I know initially I did have the entry speed issue, but I have overcome that. I try to look at the posted speed limit and stay around that due to traffic. My leaning is much better than before - again I feel it is due to experience, but I have been practicing. I am not sure what you mean about bike set-up????? I have a better line set-up. Body position?? I just go with the bike, is that right? I don't overcompensate turns or curves. I throttle up right past the middle of the curve near as I am exiting. Does this make sense?:confused:

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=579

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=526

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2423

Read post #12 one thousand times.

An awesome post by Motofool on another thread.

Thank you for posting this R1Chronicles, I am going to try one exercise tonight and see how I do on the curves. I can use all the help I can get, I really appreciate it!!!

827

I have (still working on it) a problem with early apexing in my simulation racing. Being eager not to overrun the turn, I turn in early.

The effect is just as TN described; if I followed the natural line of the corner I'd chosen, I'd end up inside the turn. The corrections (in a car) would be throttle (to slide out a bit more) or straighten (not using the whole turning circle). Either way, slower than entering the turn later.

In the above corner #1, you can actually brake later and turn in later (not the (X) but a point deeper and a bit to its right, 'cause the apex you want to hit is not the one in the diagram but a point roughly where the line pointing from "Must Roll-off or Run-off" crosses the inside curb.

Of course if you haven't been down that road, better to slow way down and not be surprised by the decreasing radius turn. I have definitely not experimented much with trailbraking on two wheels! (and I probably won't until I have better gear and a track to work on, not a street road)

I think I know most of my problem has been with curves and turns -- COUNTERSTEERING!!!!! Since I have been practicing my curves are really getting to be much easier and I am able to start enjoying them more. I have been guilty of actually "turning" my handlebars in a turn and not countersteering which is why I was so uneasy and unable to feel confident, can't imagine why - duh?????

Anyway my husband couldn't believe it when I was explaining to him how I was actually going thru my curves, poor guy he really has his plate full with me :eek: We went on a ride last night and I countersteered thru a curve that is sort of tight and it was no problem. Awkward at first since I wanted to physically turn the handlbars completely but then it happend -- I SAW THE LIGHT :cheer2:- countersteer, :banghead: yes countersteer, I got it now :whoo:

I think I know most of my problem has been with curves and turns -- COUNTERSTEERING!!!!! Since I have been practicing my curves are really getting to be much easier and I am able to start enjoying them more. I have been guilty of actually "turning" my handlebars in a turn and not countersteering which is why I was so uneasy and unable to feel confident, can't imagine why - duh?????

Anyway my husband couldn't believe it when I was explaining to him how I was actually going thru my curves, poor guy he really has his plate full with me :eek: We went on a ride last night and I countersteered thru a curve that is sort of tight and it was no problem. Awkward at first since I wanted to physically turn the handlbars completely but then it happend -- I SAW THE LIGHT :cheer2:- countersteer, :banghead: yes countersteer, I got it now :whoo:

Unless you're turning at 10mph you are already countersteering, it's just not registering mentally.

Gratz Malinda! You are on a better path to being able to accurately steer with confidence! :thumbup:

Unless you're turning at 10mph you are already countersteering, it's just not registering mentally.

MentallY???? The folks here let me out to play without my white jacket on :eek:
I mean, yes I understand,lol RedOctober.;)

Csmith12, I am feeling better and building my confidence back :thumbup:

MentallY???? The folks here let me out to play without my white jacket on :eek:
I mean, yes I understand,lol RedOctober.;)

Csmith12, I am feeling better and building my confidence back :thumbup:

The way your going about it, you will end up a better rider than most, nicely done.