View Full Version : 2002 GSXR caliper mounted


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old3
February 6th, 2013, 10:56 AM
http://173.74.246.28/ktmtalk/photogallery/galleries/members/300_tokico_2.jpg

Motofool
February 6th, 2013, 11:13 AM
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Alex
February 6th, 2013, 11:14 AM
Looks great. :thumbup:

CZroe
February 6th, 2013, 11:24 AM
The mount. Who made it? TELL US!

;)

old3
February 6th, 2013, 11:30 AM
I had upgraded to SS line and EBC "HH" pads but was still wanting more. That had good initial bite but seemed to drift off in long stops, like it was loosing feel and bite.

So, 2002 GSXR caliper and EBC "HH" pads with my buddy's fabbed aluminum bracket are bolted up. The result, another step closer to what I want. It is as far a gap from my ss line and pads in the stock caiper as that was from stock. I can leave it and enjoy it as it is with no issue, but I'm thinking a new 14mm master ($40 on ebay) will put it in the premium category in feel and power.

:thumbup:

My buddy is going to test the feasibility of building these brackets in steel next week to offer them for sale. They should fit the 300s and at least 250 back to 08. Stay tuned if you might be interested, and I'll help him post up in the vendors section if it works out to be affordable.

My caliper cost $25 shipped on Ebay, Pads were $35 and the SS line $50.

old3
February 6th, 2013, 11:31 AM
The mount. Who made it? TELL US!

;)

My buddy Pete! Master machinist extraordinare!

That is prototype #1. :thumbup:

CZroe
February 6th, 2013, 01:23 PM
My buddy Pete! Master machinist extraordinare!

That is prototype #1. :thumbup:

And he plans to make more, you say? Good man.

Our appetites are insatiable though. Crack that whip and get him to make us some more good stuff. (www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94027)

I'll take a couple sets of valve emulators and lowered handlebar risers, plzkthx. :thumbup:

old3
February 6th, 2013, 04:02 PM
My son (2012 Ninja 250 owner with stock brakes, MX racer since he was 5) took it out up & down the street to feel the brake. He really got it good & hot, 60 MPH to dead stop in aggressive braking about a dozen times. I guess he really finished off seating the pads cause it is now a real 1 finger brake. I managed a nice 2' front skid while testing a new tune. :eek: Very controlled, felt it, released it and right on down the road. Frigid tires, cold road, salt brine is down for a new storm blowing in...Do not try this at home!

I'm thinking the 1/2" or 13mm stock master might be spot on now. I'm not saying I won't try the 14mm, but if these pads get any better as they wear in, I probably won't. :thumbup: My other set of HH EBC pads just kept getting better & better over 150-200 miles. These have under 35 miles in them.

sharky nrk
February 7th, 2013, 07:07 AM
Can he make them in aluminum instead of steel for sale? Also can't really tell but it looks like you may not be using all of the swept area of the pad based on the picture. Could be the angle of the pic though.

old3
February 7th, 2013, 08:21 AM
It is using it all and then some, it ate into the black painted inner circle by a tiny bit. I'll ask him but I think milling it from aluminum like mine would be really pricey.

csmith12
February 7th, 2013, 10:05 AM
:werd:

Rassie
February 20th, 2013, 06:51 AM
If you want even more get a Hayabusa or 1200 Bandit 6 piston front caliper. Like these on this bike.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad258/rassieva/GT750/IMG_1192.jpg

CThunder-blue
February 20th, 2013, 11:36 AM
It is using it all and then some, it ate into the black painted inner circle by a tiny bit. I'll ask him but I think milling it from aluminum like mine would be really pricey.

Aluminum would be a better choice. A lot of people who want to upgrade their front brakes will be taking them to the track. Lighter = better. Aluminum isn't crazy expensive. If I was keeping my bike, I'd want AL.

choneofakind
February 20th, 2013, 02:50 PM
Yeah, but AL also fatigues over time with repeated cyclic loading. Steel doesn't, as long as the load applied is less than a certain amount (specific to the type/strengthening process, etc) each cycle.

For track, Al would be worth it. For a street vehicle, steel would be just fine. Plus it's cheaper :) Besides, the difference in weight is a few ounces right? I can vary my weight by more than that just by using the restroom. I call that insignificant.

CThunder-blue
February 20th, 2013, 03:13 PM
Not if we're talking T6061. Every big brake manufacturing kit such as AP, Brembo, and Stillen all use AL adapter brackets. I have never heard of any story that an AL bracket failed due to heat or any other reason. The other thing to consider is corrosion. You have 2 types that you have to deal with if you use steel brackets.

1. Obviously, oxidation. Even if you powder coat (driving up the cost), the threads still have to be exposed.
2. Galvanic Response. Since your aluminum brake calipers are in constant contact with with your steel bracket, you'll eventually get rust spots on the steel. You can get away with powder coat, but there goes your cost savings that you were looking for.

choneofakind
February 20th, 2013, 04:08 PM
From my materials science class, I was taught that all Aluminum will fail after a certain number of cycles. It may be millions of cycles, but it will fail eventually. It's just a property of Aluminum.

Quick reference here on T6061: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminium_alloy
It says the cyclic loading limit is around 500,000,000 cycles. Obviously that's so high that using it on a bike will not be an issue, basically because it has an infinite (in comparison to the bike) life-span. But that doesn't mean that T6061 is immune to failure from cyclic loading.

The oxidation is important. You could use stainless, but I guess you're right. Aluminum is the better option.

CThunder-blue
February 20th, 2013, 05:48 PM
Yeah, SS is much more expensive than AL.

choneofakind
February 20th, 2013, 08:41 PM
This is still a cool install old3 :)

After college, I've got my mind on a 300 and a new 636. I like the idea of fantastic brakes on the 300.

old3
January 19th, 2014, 03:27 PM
https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/1527041_479608082158787_1212600582_n.jpg

I got this today with a GSXR wheel for my fork swap. 6 piston Hyabusa caliper!

It bolted right up to my 4 piston Tokico adapter. Feel is OK, I could use more piston in my master now. Stock 13mm just barely cuts it. Lever travel is a lil longer and I really need 3 fingers where I used to need 1 or two. If I use 2 fingers my lever hits my other fingers on max braking.

Otherwise it really rocks. I was doing 45 degree stoppies and it is only 24f degrees here!

old3
January 19th, 2014, 03:29 PM
The 2002 GSXR 600 4 piston it replaced.https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1526973_478702892249306_265214766_n.jpg

choneofakind
January 19th, 2014, 04:13 PM
So is there any science or reasoning here when you choose a master/caliper combo or is this all just flying blind?

I don't know much about matching pistons and calipers and whatnot. Never felt unhappy with my current braking setup. :idunno:

old3
January 19th, 2014, 04:47 PM
There is a ratio that is ideal for good power and good feel, it depends on the total area of the caliper pistons in relation to the master. IMO the stock master is too big in piston size for the caliper's 2 pistons. I can confirm that as the 4 piston caliper and the stock 13mm master worked beautifully together.

I'm looking at a 14mm master right now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-14MM-FRONT-BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-LEVER-SUZUKI-GSX600-KATANA-GSX1100-RF900-/111256809511?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19e76c3027&vxp=mtr

And a Ninja 650 master is the same size too... Ebay to the rescue! I just got one for $47 bucks shipped in like new condition, includes an adjustable lever OEM. So, a double upgrade!

I'm betting that will restore some power I've lost in the balance and still give me good feel thru the lever. The 13mm is just a touch too small. Useable but can be much better.

If you have too much master cylinder piston size for your caliper, you get a wooden feel at the lever. You don't get great feedback from the pistons/pads in the caliper. The stock brake suffers this imbalance. I bet a 12mm master would give much better feel on the front brake. If the front caliper wasn't so marginal I'd have gone that route.

choneofakind
January 19th, 2014, 08:36 PM
Ah, so you get the caliper you want with the right number of pistons/features that you want, then go with the size of MC to get the feel that you want. That makes more sense to me.

old3
January 19th, 2014, 08:50 PM
Yep. I'm juggling used parts, or at least slightly used but I should be close with the Ninja 650 master. It usually pushes 4 bigger pistons on a pair of calipers, (2 each). If it is too big I overshot and need the slightly smaller 14mm. I think it will be right there with good feel and one finger power.

sharky nrk
January 20th, 2014, 06:41 AM
Still kinda shocks me that no one makes an adapter bracket to let you fit some older non radial mount tokicos or nissins from early 2000s middleweights.

It could be because the racing orgs make you keep stock brakes? Or because with decent pads and lines the stockers are tolerable? I know non-opposed sliding pin type calipers put some slop and inconsistency in the brakes. Maybe Blair from SV Racing or another smaller vender could fab some of these up in aluminum?

old3
January 20th, 2014, 09:35 AM
I won't be needing one, but I just emaild Blair to ask him. These Tokicos are everywhere so I'd suggest that 4 piston as a good candidate with the stock rotor and master. I'll post up his reply or start a new thread.

TnNinjaGirl
January 20th, 2014, 09:37 AM
Thanks for going through all of the hard work old3 Curious to know what you end up using and you're feedback so I can just copy it. Keep up the good work!.

old3
January 20th, 2014, 09:47 AM
It isn't hard work, I enjoy this stuff. I hope it is helpful to others. If Blair builds the brackets the upgrade is a no brainer. The 4 piston cal with HH pads, SS hose and everything else stock was a remarkably better front brake.

old3
January 20th, 2014, 10:31 AM
You guys are in luck. Blair wants to build copies off my brake caliper bracket! I'm shipping him my bracket tomorrow and will be Ninjaless till it returns. Thankfully it is going to snow tomorrow and be sub artic cold here for the week.

I'll start a new thread when he has the parts ready to order/preorder. I expect his bracket to be trimmed down and prettier than mine.

Start shopping ebay and scrappers for right side Tokico calipers! :thumbup:

TnNinjaGirl
January 20th, 2014, 10:40 AM
Not to take this too off topic but the 300 has the same forks as the newgen 250, correct? Are the caliper mounting brackets on the pregen the same?

Motofool
January 20th, 2014, 12:48 PM
If you have too much master cylinder piston size for your caliper, you get a wooden feel at the lever. You don't get great feedback from the pistons/pads in the caliper.............The 4 piston cal with HH pads, SS hose and everything else stock was a remarkably better front brake.

In your experience, what the higher number of pistons improve?

As I see it, more pistons with same pump means each squeeze of the lever can only pump so much fluid down and can only move four pistons half the distance of what it moved two pistons of similar diameter.

I have zero intention of critizizing your work, :bow: ........I'm just curious about what these changes do.

old3
January 20th, 2014, 02:18 PM
Some hydro dynamics engineer :bow: will stumble in and explain it better than I but it comes down to piston surface area. The 4 piston caliper had two much larger pistons and two slightly smaller than the others. The 6 piston calipers have much smaller pistons. Overall the smaller pistons move probably just a tad bit less per lever movement than the 4 piston.

There is a math equation somewhere that would give you the exact ratio but I don't have it!

Bottom line, either will give you braking power that exceeds the stock 2 piston sliding calipers by leaps and bounds. I wouldn't have seeked out a 6 piston but it was basically given to me in a deal with a GSXR wheel.


I may have jumped the gun by buying the Ninja 650 master. :cool: I took her out for a good romp pre winter storm and the braking is actually really good. I wasn't crushing my fingers anymore, I'm guessing the pads are really broken in now. It is also about 12f higher temps today so the tire might have more bite.

I'll test the 650 master anyway. I could use the adjustable lever and I bet it will be a bit better again than the stock master still. But, it works far and away much better than the stock caliper regardless.

sharky nrk
January 20th, 2014, 02:32 PM
^^ you want to maintain a reasonable ratio on the area of the m/c to the caliper pistons for the right amount of pressure from the lever to caliper. To just throw on the caliper without addressing the master would not be the best idea IMHO, however if the ratio happens to be close (and it may seeing as how the master in a 600 pushes fluid for both calipers and now you only need one) or you put the right uprated unit on; then the opposed piston design of the replacement caliper SHOULD offer better feel and modulation than a single sided slider due to less flex in the caliper chassis and the movement of "more smaller pistons" instead of "less larger pistons"

since the stock brakes can lock the front tire at will, its not about total stopping power, but rather feel, modulation, and control.

sharky nrk
January 20th, 2014, 02:37 PM
In your experience, what the higher number of pistons improve?

As I see it, more pistons with same pump means each squeeze of the lever can only pump so much fluid down and can only move four pistons half the distance of what it moved two pistons of similar diameter.

I have zero intention of critizizing your work, :bow: ........I'm just curious about what these changes do.

http://www.vintagebrake.com/images/mastercylinder.gif

Here is a chart from a vintage brake site that shows the relationship you are referencing, and you are to a degree right about that statement. Its an area ratio that is important. I bet the pistons in the replacement caliper are smaller than the sliding stocker.

old3
January 20th, 2014, 02:47 PM
Actually I think the 300 and 250 simply start life with a far too big master cylinder piston, and that is a big part of why the brakes feel so crappy. Thankfully that leaves room for bigger piston area in the calipers.

I'm a big sumoto rider and I am a certified brake whore. My last street bike was a KTM SMR950 with twin radial Brembos and radial master, but it paled in comparision to my Husky SMR450 brakes.

The stock master and either 4 or 6 piston Tokico is a huge step in the right direction, stock the master/caliper ratio is way off. I almost tried a 11mm master off my MX bike but the cal bracket came to be first.

Motofool
January 20th, 2014, 02:54 PM
Thank you both !!!

old3
January 20th, 2014, 03:11 PM
I just got another note from Blair. He plans to offer both a Tokico and Nissan 4 pot caliper brackets for the 08-14 Ninjettes!

More choices! :eek:

He also said he would be make it a really nice aesthetic piece too. I know mine looks a bit like a brick! :D

mania
January 20th, 2014, 06:14 PM
Still kinda shocks me that no one makes an adapter bracket to let you fit some older non radial mount tokicos or nissins from early 2000s middleweights.

It could be because the racing orgs make you keep stock brakes? Or because with decent pads and lines the stockers are tolerable? I know non-opposed sliding pin type calipers put some slop and inconsistency in the brakes. Maybe Blair from SV Racing or another smaller vender could fab some of these up in aluminum?

RSV Racing makes a few different ones here for front & rear.
This seller ( Jiester ) is in Indonesia I used his pics as they had them all on their FB
But RSV the manufacturer is in Thailand.

old3
January 20th, 2014, 06:50 PM
Rare as hen's teeth in the USA. Nice looking parts!

mania
January 20th, 2014, 07:12 PM
Rare as hen's teeth in the USA. Nice looking parts!

Yes ...One thing I notice is smaller displacement bikes get a lot of attention
in Asia for aftermarket parts etc.

I guess because large bikes are so expensive here due to import taxes & the majority ride smaller displacement.

old3
January 25th, 2014, 03:56 PM
A 2007 Ninja 650 rectangular 5/8" master is mounted and bled. Lever is rock hard and has 5 adjustment range. Next to test ride, but my caliper bracket is at SV Racing and it is snowing hard as I type! Maybe by midweek?

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/p480x480/374483_482445128541749_2057557204_n.jpg

Xtina
January 28th, 2014, 08:46 AM
:popcorn:

sharky nrk
January 28th, 2014, 09:49 AM
Sweet, waiting for final results of the whole package.

old3
January 28th, 2014, 12:04 PM
Me too!!! :thumbup:

I'd be testing it right now despite the 14f temps here. The part was delivered to Blair late yesterday so I'm hoping he measures it up and ships it back quickly.

willi777
January 30th, 2014, 09:33 AM
But why aren't these Asian parts making it here to the US? Great work Old3, if Blair can sell these brackets for a fair price, there will be alot of caliper swaps going on. FWIW, the 6 piston calipers are prone to sticking more than the 4 piston calipers- most prefer the 4 piston for better feel as well.

old3
January 30th, 2014, 09:57 AM
Thanks Willi, I'll be playing around with both when I get it all back. If one is better than the other it is pretty cheap to find either on ebay or laying in a buddies garage. The 6 piston was given to me with a few GSXR parts for my front end swap or I'd have not gone looking for it. Brand new with new HH sintered pads so who could say no?

I'm sure Blair's prices will be competitive, and I can only speak for the rear sets I bought from him but they are stout, good looking, top quality pieces. Almost a shame to ride with them. They could hang on the wall in my den!

Xtina
January 30th, 2014, 11:09 AM
Thanks Willi, I'll be playing around with both when I get it all back. If one is better than the other it is pretty cheap to find either on ebay or laying in a buddies garage. The 6 piston was given to me with a few GSXR parts for my front end swap or I'd have not gone looking for it. Brand new with new HH sintered pads so who could say no?

I'm sure Blair's prices will be competitive, and I can only speak for the rear sets I bought from him but they are stout, good looking, top quality pieces. Almost a shame to ride with them. They could hang on the wall in my den!

I'm definitely in for one of these brackets when they are made.

fast1075
February 1st, 2014, 04:20 PM
I just ordered a caliper from E-bay. A 4 pot from a GSXR 600 right side.

old3
February 1st, 2014, 04:36 PM
I just suggested he might want to consider a pre-order for these brackets. I'll let you guys know what he says. I'm going to "borrow" my kids 12/250 stock rubber hosed front brakes from master to pads so I can ride again. Looks like we might get snow again Monday anyway... :eek:

Ugh! I still hate to have my bike not ready to ride. Every time I walk by it I want to squeeze the brake lever! :cool:

old3
February 2nd, 2014, 09:15 PM
Here is the reply I got from Blair tonight.

"Better brakes will be on the way soon, We are working out the fitting details and want it to be right for both Ninja 250 and Ninja 300, "


So, get those ebay/wrecking yard calipers while they are cheap! He is working on as we speak! :dancecool:

DeltaFoxtrotZulu
February 2nd, 2014, 11:17 PM
Looking forward to this. Got a caliper on the way. Wasn't sure how quickly the Nissin adapter was coming so I went for the safer Tokico choice. Was cheaper too.

Do we need any thing different with regard to banjo bolts or brake line end fittings for these compared to stock? (Got Galfer stainless lines)

We should get a stronger master cylinder to go with this, right? (Re-reading this sounds like you're on the fence. Stock should be acceptable, but you like the 650 better?)

old3
February 3rd, 2014, 09:09 AM
I haven't tested the 650 master yet as my bracket is still with Blair. As soon as I have it back I'll let you know. With the 4 pot the stocker was really good. With the 6 pot it wasn't bad but not great at first and I jumped the gun and bought the 5/8" master.

I think I spoke too soon on that as the pads were brand new and after they bedded in it was really good with the stock master too. It'll still be good to try it, but don't go buy one yet. I'll be the test dummy on that.

Stock banjo and your Galfer line should be fine. I think I have it routed pretty much the same as to the stock caliper. Eyeball my hose in the pic above to be sure. I might have deleted a clamp at the bottom? It has been about a year since I did the hose swap.

DeltaFoxtrotZulu
February 3rd, 2014, 02:31 PM
Stock banjo and your Galfer line should be fine. I think I have it routed pretty much the same as to the stock caliper. Eyeball my hose in the pic above to be sure. I might have deleted a clamp at the bottom? It has been about a year since I did the hose swap.

I couldn't use the bottom clamp on my stainless line. I cutoff the rubber ring from the stock hose so I could use the top clamp.

old3
February 3rd, 2014, 03:45 PM
I couldn't use the bottom clamp on my stainless line. I cutoff the rubber ring from the stock hose so I could use the top clamp.

That sounds familiar. I think I cut a loop or threaded bung off the bracket/guide down by the caliper too. I remembering it being a very obvious fitting/solution.

mania
February 3rd, 2014, 11:22 PM
But why aren't these Asian parts making it here to the US? Great work Old3, if Blair can sell these brackets for a fair price, there will be alot of caliper swaps going on. FWIW, the 6 piston calipers are prone to sticking more than the 4 piston calipers- most prefer the 4 piston for better feel as well.

Well I have wondered too :)
living here in Asia now I have considered buying batches & trying to sell online.
The main problem is air postage is kind of high. But I am still looking into it

Because they do have many cool things here.

shadewalker
February 5th, 2014, 07:45 AM
Guys and gals :D, I finally installed the tokico 4 pot caliper today.

so here is how the build went.

instead of making a new adapter like Jim thought why not give the stock adapter a go. and to my luck it actually worked. All i had to do was flip the thing vertically and it fit almost like a glove.

the mods i had to make included grinding the stock adapter near the top mounting nut a bit to make the caliper fit and remove the threading from the bottom mounting hole of the caliper. so you need 2 8mm x 20mm stainless allen bolts and 2 1mm washers. there is a slight gap between the adapter and the caliper so the washer goes there. the top nut comes from the back because the adapter has no thread there. and the bottom one goes normally through easily as the threading has been drilled out.Rest just involved me putting it back together and bleeding it using my trusty mityvac :D

i must add that about 5% of the pads arent in contact with the disc as a result of using the stock adapter plate but i can live with that. Mated with the 14 mm master the difference is NIGHT and DAY!

a few pics to show u what it looks like

sharky nrk
February 5th, 2014, 08:11 AM
^^ great work there. Looks good!!! Still want to see the SV Racing plate as Blair makes good stuff but really like the DIY.

shadewalker
February 5th, 2014, 08:13 AM
^^ great work there. Looks good!!! Still want to see the SV Racing plate as Blair makes good stuff but really like the DIY.

obviously nothing compared to jim's bracket but this works pretty well for me. lets see if this is gonna be as reliable as his install..i need new brake pads though.

fast1075
February 5th, 2014, 09:39 AM
Mailman just brought my caliper. Looks pretty good, but I won't get to fiddle with it till the weekend most likely.

shadewalker
February 5th, 2014, 09:40 AM
Mailman just brought my caliper. Looks pretty good, but I won't get to fiddle with it till the weekend most likely.

all the best :) :thumbup:

old3
February 5th, 2014, 11:45 AM
Very cool to use the stock bracket like that. I guess you could use that as a template to make another and correct the pad location at the same time?

shadewalker
February 5th, 2014, 11:47 AM
Very cool to use the stock bracket like that. I guess you could use that as a template to make another and correct the pad location at the same time?

yup already in the pipeline :)

p.s. thanks a lot for the leads. wouldnt have been possible without you :)

DaveTheCanuck
February 5th, 2014, 01:17 PM
oooo this is exciting :)

Does anyone know if the right and left Tokico callipers on the GSXR are interchangeable? They look identical in pictures. Looks like the only difference would be the location of the bleeder screw.

Edit: NVM, upon closer inspection, they are not mirrored and probably wouldn't fit if flipped.

old3
February 5th, 2014, 02:08 PM
yup already in the pipeline :)

p.s. thanks a lot for the leads. wouldnt have been possible without you :)

Did the caliper end up exactly centered over the rotor with the stock flipped bracket?

Klondike1020
February 5th, 2014, 03:37 PM
RSV Racing makes a few different ones here for front & rear.
This seller ( Jiester ) is in Indonesia I used his pics as they had them all on their FB
But RSV the manufacturer is in Thailand.

I wish you had posted these BEFORE I CAME BACK FROM THAILAND !
I wouldve brought back a couple sets
the Thai people had no IDEA what I wanted so photos wouldve helped !

mania
February 5th, 2014, 05:02 PM
I wish you had posted these BEFORE I CAME BACK FROM THAILAND !
I would've brought back a couple sets
the Thai people had no IDEA what I wanted so photos would've helped !

:) Sorry bout that & yes if you do not speak Thai & better yet type it
for web inquiries doing things here can be very frustrating.

shadewalker
February 5th, 2014, 07:10 PM
Did the caliper end up exactly centered over the rotor with the stock flipped bracket?

Not completely.. Ill put up pics showing how much of it is left.. I'd say about 5 to 10%isnt in contact

Klondike1020
February 5th, 2014, 08:03 PM
:) Sorry bout that & yes if you do not speak Thai & better yet type it
for web inquiries doing things here can be very frustrating.
I should see if we could arrange for some parts to come back with my friends who are living in thailand ! save the trouble of the convoluted shipping issues

Not completely.. Ill put up pics showing how much of it is left.. I'd say about 5 to 10%isnt in contact

bummer. lets see the pics. . are you going to modd the mount , it sounds like you are close...?

shadewalker
February 5th, 2014, 08:04 PM
I should see if we could arrange for some parts to come back with my friends who are living in thailand ! save the trouble of the convoluted shipping issues



bummer. lets see the pics. . are you going to modd the mount , it sounds like you are close...?

I'll probably get a new mount made. Makes more sense.. Something in Chrome and ss. :-D

Klondike1020
February 5th, 2014, 08:07 PM
I'll probably get a new mount made. Makes more sense.. Something in Chrome and ss. :-D

Is machining and mechanic work affordable where you are?

its insane expensive in NY but I was amazed at how cheap work was on the bikes in Thailand.

the after market parts I saw in many stores seemed reasonable~ but I guess even cheap in US is exorbitant in cost for most incomes in Thailand .

shadewalker
February 5th, 2014, 08:12 PM
Is machining and mechanic work affordable where you are?

its insane expensive in NY but I was amazed at how cheap work was on the bikes in Thailand.

the after market parts I saw in many stores seemed reasonable~ but I guess even cheap in US is exorbitant in cost for most incomes in Thailand .

Lol cheap is an understatement.. I wouldn't Cost me more than 30 dollars to get it made out of a block. The income situation is same here in India too. The average income for someone to be above the poverty line is 30 dollars a month..

Anyway I'll definitely be getting a new part fashioned to align the caliper better.. I anyway have to open the caliper up to clean it inside out.

old3
February 5th, 2014, 08:16 PM
Not completely.. Ill put up pics showing how much of it is left.. I'd say about 5 to 10%isnt in contact

I mean in the other respect, are the pistons equal distance at full retract as compared to the rotor.

shadewalker
February 5th, 2014, 08:16 PM
I mean in the other respect, are the pistons equal distance at full retract as compared to the rotor.

Oh yeah.. Absolutely fine in that respect

fast1075
February 8th, 2014, 01:49 PM
Had a bit of time this morning to put the bike on the lift. My bike is a Pre Gen, and the fork leg caliper mounts are very different than a 300 sadly. But all is not lost. It will be possible to still mount the caliper. I took some measurements to begin building a mount. I put the bike back together because it is "supposed" to be nice weather tomorrow, and I want to ride it.

If the rain persists, it will go back on the lift and I will work on the adapter prototype. It would be nice if there was a "plug-n-play" adapter, but it is just more of a challenge.;)

shadewalker
February 8th, 2014, 08:13 PM
Had a bit of time this morning to put the bike on the lift. My bike is a Pre Gen, and the fork leg caliper mounts are very different than a 300 sadly. But all is not lost. It will be possible to still mount the caliper. I took some measurements to begin building a mount. I put the bike back together because it is "supposed" to be nice weather tomorrow, and I want to ride it.

If the rain persists, it will go back on the lift and I will work on the adapter prototype. It would be nice if there was a "plug-n-play" adapter, but it is just more of a challenge.;)

All the best.. Today I too am gonna get a new adapter made since I want the pads to fully grip the rotor.. Hope it's not any harder than it looks..

Somchai
February 8th, 2014, 09:11 PM
All the best.. Today I too am gonna get a new adapter made since I want the pads to fully grip the rotor.. Hope it's not any harder than it looks..

I'd go the other way, got a bigger disc with 296mm diameter to fit the caliper.

shadewalker
February 8th, 2014, 09:13 PM
I'd go the other way, got a bigger disc with 296mm diameter to fit the caliper.

That's not the only problem.. It's off by an angle so I need to rotate and push it in.. The bracket will be quiet different.. A lot like old3's

sharky nrk
February 10th, 2014, 06:40 AM
Any luck with the SV bracket yet?

old3
February 11th, 2014, 12:16 PM
Stand by for breaking SV Racing caliper bracket braking news...;)

DaveTheCanuck
February 11th, 2014, 01:59 PM
Stand by for breaking SV Racing caliper bracket braking news...;)

Red 300 standing by

old3
February 11th, 2014, 03:39 PM
Oh the suspense!!! :eek:

ChrisJuliano
February 11th, 2014, 05:52 PM
Ohhhh

allanoue
February 11th, 2014, 06:47 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
hu what?

old3
February 11th, 2014, 08:36 PM
Ah, no link sent from... somebody tonight I guess. Hopefully it'll be here tomorrow and I can post some good news!

:thumbup:

sharky nrk
February 12th, 2014, 08:25 AM
Red 300 standing by

: thumbsup : - assuming that was a loose Star Wars reference

old3
February 12th, 2014, 08:50 AM
I'm still waiting for da link from dis guy I nose... When dis guy, you no, gives me da link, you no? I'll be back here to deal wit youse guys, OK? OK? OK?

OK! OK!

Fuggedaboutdit! :cool:

old3
February 12th, 2014, 05:43 PM
Might be another 48 hours... Patience, patience!!! it'll be worth the wait! :thumbup:

ChrisJuliano
February 14th, 2014, 02:31 PM
hmmmm

Alkeplar
February 16th, 2014, 11:27 AM
I practice emergency breaking and skills all the time, and for the first time I out-rode my breaks (Under controlled conditions of cours). I was in the triple didgets and did a hard break, by the time I was down to 40 the lever sunk to the bar. The breaks were not already super hot or being heavily used prior to the practice, just normal riding. So I would be interested in an upgrade, being the SS lines as well as a bigger caliper/master cylinder set up. So here I sit, waiting with the rest of them :)

old3
February 16th, 2014, 03:35 PM
I'm waiting too!!! Waiting on the email with the link you are going to want to use!

Trust me, I was asked not to release any info without the link so I'm waiting... As soon as I have the green light I'll post it up and start a new thread in the for sale section.

allanoue
February 16th, 2014, 03:37 PM
I'm waiting too!!! Waiting on the email with the link you are going to want to use!

Trust me, I was asked not to release any info without the link so I'm waiting... As soon as I have the green light I'll post it up and start a new thread in the for sale section.

a group buy?

Alkeplar
February 16th, 2014, 04:05 PM
It's all tickly in my tummy with excitement..... O_o ahaha, but seriously. Sounds like it's gonna be worth the wait :):madtyping:

Don't ask.... I just love that GIF/smily thing

mania
February 16th, 2014, 05:32 PM
Looking forward to seeing it too.

This is one thing I did not think about when I changed
my front rotor to a floating 320mm

Now if I want to change caliper I need a custom mount made :(

Somchai
February 17th, 2014, 12:59 AM
Looking forward to seeing it too.

This is one thing I did not think about when I changed
my front rotor to a floating 320mm

Now if I want to change caliper I need a custom mount made :(

Yes mania, go for another caliper, you'll love it.
Last time I had a friend, a well experienced rider, doing a little testride with my Ninja and he'd like my Brembo caliper.
The only thing he didn't like that much was the geometry of my bike, since the front is 16mm lower with the rear 10mm higher and also my clip ons 50mm deeper then stock. :thumbup:

shadewalker
February 17th, 2014, 01:55 AM
Sorry for the absence.. I had a chance to test out my brakes this weekend at the track.. And i could be happier.. The last time I was so scared using my brakes.. This time though I was able to Slam my brakes without the fear of locking. Ill be putting up pics and videos on my track day thread. :-) I just wanna give a BIG THANK YOU to old3(jim).had it not been for his diy skills I would have never thought of upgrading the caliper for this cheap :-D. 24 dollars for the caliper and 20 for the pads.. One bottle of oil and a lot of elbow grease and I have epic braking..

Pics of the New adapter being made..

old3
February 17th, 2014, 08:46 AM
Sorry for the absence.. I had a chance to test out my brakes this weekend at the track..

And i could be happier....



Worried me there till I read the rest! :D

Great brakes are such a treat. Still no email... I'll write him to ask for the link again, I hate to be a pest but I'll give him a nudge again! :dancecool:

old3
February 17th, 2014, 08:49 AM
@ Mania, I'm thinking of getting that 320mm rotor and doing another custom bracket too, so the SV part won't work me either. I'll shed a tear every time I see a 250/300 with a stock brake caliper. The 4/6 pistons are just so much better braking parts and feel excellent.

@ Shadewalker, still stock master, right? 4 pot Tokico?

shadewalker
February 17th, 2014, 08:50 AM
@ Mania, I'm thinking of getting that 320mm rotor and doing another custom bracket too, so the SV part won't work me either. I'll shed a tear every time I see a 250/300 with a stock brake caliper. The 4/6 pistons are just so much better braking parts and feel excellent.

@ Shadewalker, still stock master, right? 4 pot Tokico?

lol i meant to write i couldnt be happier :D

and im using the nissin master and the 4 pot tokico

old3
February 17th, 2014, 08:59 AM
I figured it out! :D

That was a master off a 600?

shadewalker
February 17th, 2014, 09:01 AM
yup..03 636

old3
February 17th, 2014, 09:08 AM
I'd be interested in your review of it with the stock master if you get a chance to try it that way.

I'm still waiting for my old cal bracket to come back to me, and my streets are all ice and snow covered till later this week anyway.

I'm looking forward to trying the 5/8" conventional master which is designed to push a total of 4 pistons on the Ninja 650. It is pretty big compared to the 1/2" stocker, over 3mm bigger. Hoping that isn't too big for my calipers as the stocker did very well IMO.

shadewalker
February 17th, 2014, 09:10 AM
I'd be interested in your review of it with the stock master if you get a chance to try it that way.

I'm still waiting for my old cal bracket to come back to me, and my streets are all ice and snow covered till later this week anyway.

I'm looking forward to trying the 5/8" conventional master which is designed to push a total of 4 pistons on the Ninja 650. It is pretty big compared to the 1/2" stocker, over 3mm bigger. Hoping that isn't too big for my calipers as the stocker did very well IMO.

the master im using is designed to push 8 pots so i think ur pretty safe with that master :)

old3
February 17th, 2014, 09:19 AM
OK, here is part of the email I just got from Blair, he is looking for a donor nissin 4 piston caliper to use in building the Nissin brake caliper brackets...


quote,
"I need a Nissin 4 Piston Calipers from the Honda CBR600 F4 - F4i All Model Years 1999 to 2006, the CBR 929 – CBR 954 Model Years 2000 – 2003, or the CBR 600RR Model Years 2003 -2004 or the Honda RC-51 years 2001 and up


I will give the Brake Caliper Bracket set to the Nissin Donor for Shipping Costs only for the use the caliper to do up the Brackets,

The Tokico you sent me is in development now.


Whoever has the Nissin Caliper can Email me at b.layton@svracingparts.com now and I will set it up with them,"
end quote

So, I was expecting a preorder link, but maybe later today? As soon as I get that you can start to pre order anyways... so, anyone have the Nissin caliper already?

Thanks guys!

old3
February 17th, 2014, 09:21 AM
the master im using is designed to push 8 pots so i think ur pretty safe with that master :)

I was just concerned with losing the great feel I have now, but the thought of a one finger brake with great feel has me experimenting!

Like I said, if you have some time and can try the stock master I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I'm thinking once these brackets are shipped there will be many who can review that combo and a few others too.

All good info to have on hand. :thumbup:

sharky nrk
February 17th, 2014, 09:22 AM
^^ wish I did cause it would be on the way lol

old3
February 17th, 2014, 09:28 AM
^^ wish I did cause it would be on the way lol

I haven't shopped for them but I'd be searching ebay and having it shipped directly to SV Racing. I bet there are plenty of them for under $30.

shadewalker
February 17th, 2014, 09:35 AM
I was just concerned with losing the great feel I have now, but the thought of a one finger brake with great feel has me experimenting!

Like I said, if you have some time and can try the stock master I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I'm thinking once these brackets are shipped there will be many who can review that combo and a few others too.

All good info to have on hand. :thumbup:

i can do that..i'll just have to buy a lot of oil..bleeding these 4 pots is a pain..

old3
February 17th, 2014, 09:37 AM
Oh, don't go to any trouble. I bleed mine all the time so it is a usual task. No big deal in my garage. Leave it if you have it all good and you like it. It was just for conversation.

sharky nrk
February 18th, 2014, 10:48 AM
I haven't shopped for them but I'd be searching ebay and having it shipped directly to SV Racing. I bet there are plenty of them for under $30.

Can you confirm that he doesn't have one yet? I not I will go ahead and do that - buy one on ebay and have it shipped to him.

old3
February 18th, 2014, 11:01 AM
Here is his email, I think another guy is already in the process of buying and shipping one but you can check.

Whoever has the Nissin Caliper can Email me at b.layton@svracingparts.com now and I will set it up with them,"
end quote

old3
February 18th, 2014, 12:17 PM
I just heard somebody made the Nissin loaner deal last night.

More options is good!!!

mania
February 18th, 2014, 05:09 PM
Reading this thread has really got me wanting to change my caliper too.
Especially with the big 320mm float disc. The stock caliper looks really tiny & disproportionate now :)

Jim I was curious....Do you think a radial mount adapter makes any difference or do you think it would not have any more benefit than conventional since it is not truly a radial mount since it ultimately uses the conventional mount at the fork leg anyway?

This is the picture that got me thinking

shadewalker
February 18th, 2014, 05:12 PM
Reading this thread has really got me wanting to change my caliper too.
Especially with the big 320mm float disc. The stock caliper looks really tiny & disproportionate now :)

Jim I was curious....Do you think a radial mount adapter makes any difference or do you think it would not have any more benefit than conventional since it is not truly a radial mount since it ultimately uses the conventional mount at the fork leg anyway?

This is the picture that got me thinking

It won't make much of a difference in our bike.. The tokico 4 pot is an amazing caliper to invest in.. Going for a new radial mount really doesn't make sense.. Even Brembo has taken out an axial mount caliper for our ninjettes.. Usually it's best to stick to the stock mounting style as it puts less stress on the mounts under hard braking.

old3
February 18th, 2014, 05:18 PM
I'd say the rigidity of the radial is lost thru the bracket to adapt it. The thing that might be better is the build/rigidty and power of the newer premium calipers... I can't say if you would actually feel it.

The 4 and 6 pot Tokicos are already so much better than the 2 piston sliding pin stockers it might be hard to really get much more than a fraction of a percent better than them. Either just blow the stockers away.

I can't wait to get my bracket back to test the Ninja 650 master. I'm thinking that will be pretty good for a cobbled together system.

mania
February 18th, 2014, 05:19 PM
It won't make much of a difference in our bike.. The tokico 4 pot is an amazing caliper to invest in.. Going for a new radial mount really doesn't make sense.. Even Brembo has taken out an axial mount caliper for our ninjettes.. Usually it's best to stick to the stock mounting style as it puts less stress on the mounts under hard braking.

Thanks shadewalker
I was kind of thinking the same because ultimately the adapter is mounted conventional anyway so any torsional strength benefit would be questionable.
Also this is not a very big heavy bike & fork legs a bit spindly :)
Would love to see a 41mm usd on one.

mania
February 18th, 2014, 05:20 PM
I'd say the rigidity of the radial is lost thru the bracket to adapt it. The thing that might be better is the build/rigidty and power of the newer premium calipers... I can't say if you would actually feel it.

The 4 and 6 pot Tokicos are already so much better than the 2 piston sliding pin stockers it might be hard to really get much more than a fraction of a percent better than them. Either just blow the stockers away.

I can't wait to get my bracket back to test the Ninja 650 master. I'm thinking that will be pretty good for a cobbled together system.

+1 & looking forward to more of your tests :thumbup:

mania
February 18th, 2014, 11:18 PM
Dont know of this was mentioned or posted before but...
Look at page 2 test 4
Interesting what the say about a 6 pot vs a 4 pot caliper
seems logical

sharky nrk
February 19th, 2014, 06:49 AM
Reading this thread has really got me wanting to change my caliper too.
Especially with the big 320mm float disc. The stock caliper looks really tiny & disproportionate now :)

Jim I was curious....Do you think a radial mount adapter makes any difference or do you think it would not have any more benefit than conventional since it is not truly a radial mount since it ultimately uses the conventional mount at the fork leg anyway?

This is the picture that got me thinking

may be a decent option if you already have access to the calipers and the newer radial calipers will be very solid pieces. Where did you find that adapter?

sharky nrk
February 19th, 2014, 06:57 AM
Dont know of this was mentioned or posted before but...
Look at page 2 test 4
Interesting what the say about a 6 pot vs a 4 pot caliper
seems logical

great read and all very accurate. Thank for posting.

mania
February 19th, 2014, 07:00 AM
may be a decent option if you already have access to the calipers and the newer radial calipers will be very solid pieces. Where did you find that adapter?

That is an adapter RSV Racing sells here in Thailand

Will not fit my new 320mm disk though :(
I will wait & see what can be fabricated.

old3
February 19th, 2014, 10:56 AM
Might add more flex again but I think you might get away with that mount by adding spacers on the radial mounting bolts to move the cal out to the edge of the bigger rotor. Add appropriately longer bolts too of course. i.e. 10mm spacer, add 10mm to your bolts.

You get the look, maybe not the full benefit but the calipers are excellent quality. I agree, if you already have one, why not?

It should be mounted on the correct angle to hit the radius squarely right? Straight off the axle so to speak.

mania
February 19th, 2014, 09:28 PM
Might add more flex again but I think you might get away with that mount by adding spacers on the radial mounting bolts to move the cal out to the edge of the bigger rotor. Add appropriately longer bolts too of course. i.e. 10mm spacer, add 10mm to your bolts.

You get the look, maybe not the full benefit but the calipers are excellent quality. I agree, if you already have one, why not?

It should be mounted on the correct angle to hit the radius squarely right? Straight off the axle so to speak.


Hmmm you know that is a good possibility I had not thought of.
I do not have one but they are available & not too pricey
After all as you say the angle should be correct

mania
February 20th, 2014, 12:13 AM
You know while looking at Moto3 testing today
noticing the alternative to bigger rotors & calipers.

Of course these bikes are much lighter
But it would be nice to have this fork & front rim. ( of course :) )
Be able to run twin small disc with small strong caliper on each side

Xtina
February 20th, 2014, 01:42 PM
I need bracket! JIM WHERE ARE THEY! /:Cry:

DaveTheCanuck
February 20th, 2014, 01:57 PM
I need bracket! JIM WHERE ARE THEY! /:Cry:

:iamwithstupid: :D

old3
February 20th, 2014, 03:47 PM
I'm waiting on SV Racing, sorry guys! If it makes you feel any better, I can't even ride my bike as I don't have my original custom bracket back yet. :(

Al for a good cause anyway. Last we wrote, Blair said he was almost done with it. I'm hoping to have it back for the Daytona SX trip I was planning on. :dancecool:

shadewalker
February 21st, 2014, 04:37 AM
I'm waiting on SV Racing, sorry guys! If it makes you feel any better, I can't even ride my bike as I don't have my original custom bracket back yet. :(

Al for a good cause anyway. Last we wrote, Blair said he was almost done with it. I'm hoping to have it back for the Daytona SX trip I was planning on. :dancecool:

All the best.. Hope u get it in time..

sharky nrk
February 21st, 2014, 07:06 AM
You know while looking at Moto3 testing today
noticing the alternative to bigger rotors & calipers.

Of course these bikes are much lighter
But it would be nice to have this fork & front rim. ( of course :) )
Be able to run twin small disc with small strong caliper on each side

MMMMMMMM love me some Moto3 bikes

Alkeplar
February 21st, 2014, 10:40 PM
You know while looking at Moto3 testing today
noticing the alternative to bigger rotors & calipers.

Of course these bikes are much lighter
But it would be nice to have this fork & front rim. ( of course :) )
Be able to run twin small disc with small strong caliper on each side

One could only with O_o:leghump:

DaveTheCanuck
February 26th, 2014, 07:46 AM
I'm waiting on SV Racing, sorry guys! If it makes you feel any better, I can't even ride my bike as I don't have my original custom bracket back yet. :(

Al for a good cause anyway. Last we wrote, Blair said he was almost done with it. I'm hoping to have it back for the Daytona SX trip I was planning on. :dancecool:

*poke* anything? :D

old3
February 26th, 2014, 09:00 AM
Not yet, I'll send him a request for that link today... See if we get anywhere.

Back as soon as I hear! :thumbup:

old3
February 27th, 2014, 03:40 PM
Looks like I won't be able to use a SV Racing cal bracket after all!

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/p526x296/1743542_498670283585900_724707038_n.jpg

320MM, full floater!

Thanks Mike!!! :bow:

BTW, I emailed SV, still no word back. I was expecting a link to let our members preorder brackets. I'll post up ASAP when I hear back!

mania
February 27th, 2014, 05:51 PM
Looks like I won't be able to use a SV Racing cal bracket after all!

320MM, full floater!


Looking good :thumbup:
Sure look proper now with a real caliper on there too ;)

old3
February 27th, 2014, 05:53 PM
I think I may have to bribe my machinist with a big bottle of booze or the GSXR front end I doubt I'll be using!

This thing should be nasty with that set up on there!

Thanks again buddy! :bow:

shadewalker
February 27th, 2014, 09:24 PM
I think I may have to bribe my machinist with a big bottle of booze or the GSXR front end I doubt I'll be using!

This thing should be nasty with that set up on there!

Thanks again buddy! :bow:

Wow wow wow.. This time of u do get it machined please keep the dimensions.. I might go for this setup too.. :-D

fast1075
February 28th, 2014, 03:53 AM
For those of you who may have been following this thread that have a Pre Gen that want a killer front brake by using the GSXR caliper, I have bad news.

It will not fit. That is, if it is mounted so all of the swept surface of the disc is used. The pads exactly match the swept surface, as they should. If you mount the caliper in the position where it needs to be to align the pads properly, the caliper hits the wheel hub where the rotor bolts are located.

This is because the Pre Gen rotor is 30 mm smaller than the New Gen/300 rotor. The required larger rotor will not fit a Pre Gen wheel, and there is no alternative that I can find. If the larger rotor fit, all would be fine, and I would be doing stoppies today.

Other wise you would need to mount the caliper cocked up so only part of the pads grip the rotor. Not acceptable, at least to me. So without changing to new wheels, etc, (which I have no desire to spend a ton of money doing) unless there is a double top secret over size rotor that seems to not exist, I will be keeping it stock.

Is there a double top secret over size rotor for a Pre Gen? :rolleyes:

mania
February 28th, 2014, 04:03 AM
Is there a double top secret over size rotor for a Pre Gen? :rolleyes:

I am not familiar with Pre gen but are you saying a custom adapter cannot be made?

Also how about Beet? Do they sell for Pre-Gens?

http://www.beet.co.jp/english/kawasaki/ninja250r/index.html

I see they have a 40 & 65mm adapter as well as bigger rotor kits
Not 320mm but 310 I think.

http://www.beet.co.jp/english/kawasaki/ninja250r/zoomimg/bigloterkit.jpg

Somchai
February 28th, 2014, 05:10 AM
I know the website is in german language (Google will translate it for you) and also it looks like that you guys not often look for a german company (except the world-known like BMW i.e.), but here > http://mx-tec.eu/public/dyn_layer.aspx?tpl=_Sonderanfertigungen_&suid=4804&zid=4c682da0-2a3d-43aa-be16-3a3b54744ee0 < I got my rotor made like I needed it to be (296mm). So maybe you give it a try, since there you get everything you need and also this small company is very well known by german riders...
There's always a way to get what you need and the prices go from around 100 to 150 USD.
And if you need help with the translation just send me a message.

fast1075
February 28th, 2014, 05:21 AM
Thanks for the links. Guess my Google-fu is not strong enough.

Making the adapter is no problem at all. The problem is the stock rotor is not large enough in diameter for the caliper to clear the wheel. It MIGHT be possible to machine the caliper down enough to clear, but I am not going that route. It looks like machining the caliper down might compromise the integrity of the caliper.

I will check out the links and see how that goes. Thanks!

Xtina
March 3rd, 2014, 10:20 AM
Looks like I won't be able to use a SV Racing cal bracket after all!

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/p526x296/1743542_498670283585900_724707038_n.jpg

320MM, full floater!

Thanks Mike!!! :bow:

BTW, I emailed SV, still no word back. I was expecting a link to let our members preorder brackets. I'll post up ASAP when I hear back!

fffuuuuuuu! :mad:
Quitter

choneofakind
March 3rd, 2014, 11:03 AM
Dude, your gold and your orange are clashing. Better get that fixed. :p

old3
March 5th, 2014, 06:53 AM
Quitter? Xtina, never! :thumbup:

I'll stay on the case guys, as soon as Blair sends me the order info I'll pass it along here. It is going to be worth the wait!

mania
March 5th, 2014, 08:23 AM
I am keeping my fingers crossed for the next adapter ;)

mania
March 5th, 2014, 08:28 AM
BTW: on the USD forks this one was just posted today here
an older 250 with 2003 zx6 fork & wheels as well as a swingarm off a 89 CBR400

I think it is way too much tire wise for a 250
but like the fork, brakes & swingarm

Xtina
March 5th, 2014, 08:48 AM
BTW: on the USD forks this one was just posted today here
an older 250 with 2003 zx6 fork & wheels as well as a swingarm off a 89 CBR400

I think it is way too much tire wise for a 250
but like the fork, brakes & swingarm

It looks so bulky.

mania
March 5th, 2014, 09:12 AM
It looks so bulky.

Yes way too much tire

mania
March 13th, 2014, 04:56 AM
RSV has made a nice radial adapter for the Ninja running the 320mm front rotor
Only bummer is it is the 100mm adapter.
That means a pricey Brembo caliper & probably need the radial master pricey also

This bike is running both

sharky nrk
March 13th, 2014, 07:03 AM
^^ I really like that, what we need is a bracket that will accept standard spacing radials, and a matching oem rotor at bolts on. Grab some takeoffs from someone who upgraded to those pricey Brembo bits


I love hand me down upgrades lol.

mania
March 13th, 2014, 07:32 AM
^^ I really like that, what we need is a bracket that will accept standard spacing radials, and a matching oem rotor at bolts on. Grab some takeoffs from someone who upgraded to those pricey Brembo bits


I love hand me down upgrades lol.

Actually I know RSV did one for standard rotor & Nissin radial
But do not know if it was a one off or a stocked item
Here is a pic

sharky nrk
March 13th, 2014, 08:28 AM
Actually I know RSV did one for standard rotor & Nissin radial
But do not know if it was a one off or a stocked item
Here is a pic

lol, they don't have a US distribution arm though do they?

DeltaFoxtrotZulu
March 13th, 2014, 09:12 AM
Wonder where they got the 320 rotor? From another Kawasaki or something custom they sell?

Starting to worry about this SVR adapter not coming...

mania
March 13th, 2014, 09:45 AM
Wonder where they got the 320 rotor? From another Kawasaki or something custom they sell?

Starting to worry about this SVR adapter not coming...

We have them here in Thailand

I bought one too
It was marketed under Nassert Beet name but is not their product
Does seem a good rotor though IMO
Although my stock caliper looks really tiny now :)
I am looking to change soon to Axial 4 pot Nissin or Tokico
As soon as I can suss the mount out

old3
March 13th, 2014, 10:53 AM
Wonder where they got the 320 rotor? From another Kawasaki or something custom they sell?

Starting to worry about this SVR adapter not coming...

Production takes time, I just emailed him a few minutes ago and will let you know what he says. He runs a pretty nice sized business and all his stuff is beautiful, anodized and precision. I have no doubt these will be excellent brackets, nothing like the brick I sent him! :rotflmao:

Patience, he needs to build jigs to be able to reproduce these reliably, then send them for the color coating. It'll be worth the wait IMO. :thumbup:

old3
March 13th, 2014, 01:45 PM
Here is the actual reply I got today,

"Hi Jim, I was just at the shop this morning, it is all in final production fitting now. It will be a redesign of what your guy did and I think you will appreciate the differences once you see them."

So, it is coming!!! Don't fret!!! Save your quarters, dimes and nickels and be ready to pounce on them when they are released! :thumbup:

Han Solo 1
March 14th, 2014, 07:28 AM
Just went through most of this thread.

Is this something that someone can install themselves without a lot of wrenching knowledge? Or is it better to take it in to a shop?

allanoue
March 14th, 2014, 07:34 AM
Just went through most of this thread.

Is this something that someone can install themselves without a lot of wrenching knowledge? Or is it better to take it in to a shop?

it is easier to do then the bearings.

Han Solo 1
March 14th, 2014, 07:35 AM
it is easier to do then the bearings.

Cool.

old3
March 14th, 2014, 10:20 AM
Super easy job. Read up on bleeding brakes. I can do it alone, but a friend to work the brake lever helps. The actual caliper install will be a snap.

1. Remove brake hose at caliper, be ready to catch/mop up brake fluid

2. Remove 2 bolts securing caliper to fork and remove caliper

3. Bolt on adapter/caliper. I haven't seen the new part so you might bolt them together first or after the bracket is on the bike. Check the pads are outside the rotor, one on each side.

4. Attach brake hose

5. Bleed brake at caliper

I'd suggest adding a SS braided hose while you are there if you have a stock hose. You are half way done already, just remove it from master cylinder and replace it.

This is no more than a 30 minute job from start to clean up.

Han Solo 1
March 14th, 2014, 10:21 AM
Super easy job. ..............

This is no more than a 30 minute job from start to clean up.

Wow. If it's really that much of a difference in braking power, I might go ahead and do this.

DeltaFoxtrotZulu
March 14th, 2014, 10:29 AM
5. Bleed brake at caliper

What do you use for bleeding. I've tried a few things and the hoses are always too narrow I cannot get them onto the caliper bleed screw. I'm thinking one of those reverse pumps might be the best route.

old3
March 14th, 2014, 10:35 AM
The cost ratio will be very good as I understand it. Get a right side 4p (or 6p) Tokico and be ready to order the SVR bracket when he releases the link. My 4p caliper was under $30 on ebay in excellent condition, I added new pads to it for $35.

At the end cost, you won't beat this in performance per dollar IMO. You can only go as fast as you can stop. The feel with the stock master and the 4p cal is right on the mark. Your confidence and control will go up exponentially.

The stock stuff is like dragging your feet in comparison. :eek:

old3
March 14th, 2014, 10:55 AM
What do you use for bleeding. I've tried a few things and the hoses are always too narrow I cannot get them onto the caliper bleed screw. I'm thinking one of those reverse pumps might be the best route.

I have a Mity Vac but rarely use it. Get a selection of clear hoses in different diameters, find one that fits the nipple well, (tight) and about 2' long. Sometimes I zip ty it to the nip like a hose clamp.

Run off the nip into a small loop, but don't pinch the hose. Zip ty it to hold it just above the nipple, run the end to a can/cup/jar to catch fluid.

Pump and release, bubbles will get caught at the top of the loop, and you have fluid at the hose and nipple joint, so less chance of drawing air back in if you are sloppy in the process. Also, in the clear hose, you can see if you are still popping bubbles or pushing solid brake fluid.

For those who don't know...

Prepare as above. Squeeze brake lever to put pressure on fluid in hose, pull as it is released and bring it to the bar *** and hold it in next step!

Unscrew nipple a half turn or until fluid is pressed out and brake lever/pedal goes to end of stroke.

Snug nipple, THEN RELEASE LEVER.

Repeat until lever feel is solid with nipple closed AND there is no air released in fluid at nipple.

Air in between the master cylinder piston and the caliper piston can be compressed, this feels like a "soft" lever, mushy brakes. If there is a new brake hose, cal or master, there will be a lot of air. Be patient, the above will still work but it will take awhile to push fluid all the way thru.

At every stop, check the fluid level in the master, as it will be pushing that into the hose, down to the nipple and out of the system. If you let it run low, it will draw air into the line and you will need to start over.

I use auto grade DOT 4 in everything I ride. Moto specific is more $$$, I don't see any difference in actual use. Any auto store or even in a pinch, DOT 3 from a grocery store will be fine too.

I change mine pretty regularly. It only takes ten minutes and gives a fresh brake feel. 2-3 times a year on the street bike. You can ignore it, but it draws in water naturally, right from the air. Water boils, creates gas bubbles, those can compress...mushy brakes. If you are really hard on them, you can burn the fluid too, right in the caliper. Easy to change, do it once a year at least.

I may have missed a point or two so if anyone notices anything add it in please. Little things matter with brake bleeding. Get used to the details and it is very easy to do well. I set mine up to work the lever with my left hand and the bleeder with my right on the front end. Opposite on the rear.

old3
March 25th, 2014, 02:36 PM
Just to let you guys & gals know it hasn't been forgotten, Blair emailed me he is making big progress this week on the brackets. Again, as soon as he releases a link to order, I'll pass it along. Sorry it has taken so long but these are the realities of production. Expect news soon.

Secondly, I build a home made bracket to hold my 6p Tokico and clamp the 320mm rotor. Bike has been off the roads too long after loaning out my bracket.

The caliper/new HH pads with the Ninja 650 master is broken in and works wonderfully. Superb balance between power and feel. I can't tell if it is remarkable better than the stock master, (been a long time since I rode that combo) but the lever travel is less for sure, and the 5 position adjustability is a nice feature. Can do vs. must do for now.

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1966713_510233582429570_506285630_n.jpg

mania
March 25th, 2014, 06:53 PM
Looking good !

Looks like your getting a good footprint on that
larger disk now.

DaveTheCanuck
April 7th, 2014, 05:11 PM
*poke*

anything? :(

subxero
April 7th, 2014, 05:30 PM
Just glanced through this thread, I am actually looking to do something similar but with a Brembo caliper. Once my parts come in, caliper and rotor i will be able to get some ideas of how/if it is going to work and what kind of adapter/mounting bracket will be needed. But this gives me hope that it will all fit no problems.

You don't think the 6 pot caliper is a bit overkill? how much does it weight vs the 4 pot?

old3
April 14th, 2014, 05:40 PM
Blair emailed me today. He is hoping to have an update and release date very soon and said the brackets are really awesome parts. If/when I hear more I'll pop back in.

It won't be long now.

Jim

shadewalker
May 5th, 2014, 03:30 AM
Blair emailed me today. He is hoping to have an update and release date very soon and said the brackets are really awesome parts. If/when I hear more I'll pop back in.

It won't be long now.

Jim

Still no update? I had huge upset on the track this time.. There was still some part of the pad that wasn't being used so when the pads became thin enough that area became an obstruction and killed the front brakes.. Had a couple of close calls.. So I stopped.. I need a better adapter..

subxero
May 5th, 2014, 05:38 AM
^ thats a very good point to make for these kinds of swap mods. If the pad is not getting worn down in a particular area sooner or later it may be possible for the un-used high spots to make contact with each other and prevent the pads from squeezing the rotor.

People be smart and definitely check your set up after some miles to check for such issues.

shadewalker
May 5th, 2014, 05:40 AM
^ thats a very good point to make for these kinds of swap mods. If the pad is not getting worn down in a particular area sooner or later it may be possible for the un-used high spots to make contact with each other and prevent the pads from squeezing the rotor.

People be smart and definitely check your set up after some miles to check for such issues.

i knew this was an issue 100 or so kms after i did the swap but i completely forgot to check the pads before the track day.

Somchai
May 5th, 2014, 06:42 AM
i knew this was an issue 100 or so kms after i did the swap but i completely forgot to check the pads before the track day.

That's the reason for me with the Brembo caliper swap to get a bigger brake disc made with 296 mm instead of oem 290 mm.
When you're racing, also with riding on the street, always check everything for the best safety (it secures life)!

willi777
May 6th, 2014, 06:28 AM
For a 298mm disc/rotor you can try a Yamaha R1 rotor, at least according to this post... Its a waste of time fitting HH rated pads etc. What i've done is use a Yamaha R1 4XV 298mm front disc(has exactly the same pcd mounting holes-just need drilling out to 10mm) and will bolt straight on! and then i have a Honda VTR1000 (97-00) righthand 4 pot front calliper which i've machined and made up a mounting adaptor to fit it. So my GPZ500 now has a 298mm Yamaha R1 front disc(standard GPZ disc is 280mm diameter), and a 4 pot Honda VTR1000 gold calliper and its awesome!!!! Initial bite is superb, but overall braking power is as good as you'll ever need.
http://www.visordown.com/reviews/motorcycles/sports-tourers/kawasaki-gpz500s/reader-reviews/1189.html#review2775

I haven't tried this yet, but the PCD is the same between the 2 rotors according to spec sheets. Not too crazy about having to machine the caliper, but for the price of a used rotor it might be worth exploring.

CZroe
May 8th, 2014, 04:22 PM
Not to take this too off topic but the 300 has the same forks as the newgen 250, correct? Are the caliper mounting brackets on the pregen the same?

Fender mounting and such is different but the 300 uses the same caliper as the last gen 250 and, thus, the adapter should fit both.

ninja250r81
May 11th, 2014, 05:32 PM
Was this posted before??

http://www.slingshotracing.net/catalog/kawasaki-ninja-250r300-brembo-front-brake-caliper-cnc-adapter-pr-518.html


http://www.oppracing.com/category/226-front-brake-caliper-upgrade-kits/?bikemake=3580&include_non_bike_specific=Y

subxero
May 11th, 2014, 05:48 PM
^

Not in this particular thread but i think most of it has been touch on here

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=177974

broken neck
June 3rd, 2014, 09:15 AM
Any update yet?

Waiting for this to install the rest of the parts...

Thanks.

Bigballsofpaint
June 3rd, 2014, 10:25 AM
Not to barge in here, but if anyone noticed the one i made for Joe (subxero), if your friend doesnt come through then let me know. If i had the specs from the one you made old3 i can do this one easily as well. Joe is using a 320mm rotor with a brembo caliper, so the caliper bolt hole spacing relative to the fork mounting is all i really need.

shadewalker
June 19th, 2014, 03:11 AM
Looks like I won't be able to use a SV Racing cal bracket after all!

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/p526x296/1743542_498670283585900_724707038_n.jpg

320MM, full floater!

Thanks Mike!!! :bow:

BTW, I emailed SV, still no word back. I was expecting a link to let our members preorder brackets. I'll post up ASAP when I hear back!

what rotor is that and does it come in 300mm?

mania
June 19th, 2014, 07:33 PM
I got that disk for him.
It was marketed here in Thailand as Beet but it is not a Beet
we later found out.
But it is a good quality & is fine on my bike

BTW
Here is a pic of their adapter with spacers used
to put caliper further out for larger 320 disk

Also one on larger without....so seems they sell various adapters? With caliper
at different mount angles

mania
June 19th, 2014, 07:36 PM
PS: AFAIK their adapter allows running the stock disk without spacer between

shadewalker
June 19th, 2014, 08:05 PM
I got that disk for him.
It was marketed here in Thailand as Beet but it is not a Beet
we later found out.
But it is a good quality & is fine on my bike

BTW
Here is a pic of their adapter with spacers used
to put caliper further out for larger 320 disk

Also one on larger without....so seems they sell various adapters? With caliper
at different mount angles

how much is that rotor for and can you find out if they have a 310mm one? if its too big ill get it milled to 300

mania
June 19th, 2014, 10:52 PM
how much is that rotor for and can you find out if they have a 310mm one? if its too big ill get it milled to 300

It was 3500 Thai Baht so roughly $107 if I remember right.
Poor Jim shipping to US was dang near as much :(

But I have been that spot myself in the opposite direction when buying from US
But....I also need to pay Import Taxes & VAT :(:(

Too bad we cannot email/download parts heheh :)


PS: I have never seen a 310 not to say they do not exist somewhere.....
Although even if bigger than you need I do not think you would need to
mill anything.
If Caliper touched larger disk you could just space it back.

I know Beet/Web Bike Japan sell disk's but not sure what sizes they are

subxero
June 20th, 2014, 05:43 AM
you can find Ara Shi bolt on rotors on ebay for $150 shipped. Some are listed as 320mm, I have one, works perfect, have had no issues, seems of good quality.

Not sure if it is actually 320mm, I have not measured? I feel like it is smaller though? Is the 320mm the diameter right? ill try and measure this weekend give or take.

check out this thread/post for pics,
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showpost.php?p=869009&postcount=95

Somchai
June 20th, 2014, 06:04 AM
how much is that rotor for and can you find out if they have a 310mm one? if its too big ill get it milled to 300

Beet is 310 and X-Speed also, please look here: http://japan.webike.net/ps/#!p.m=5921&p.c=1012&p.sk=1
There's one from Galfer with 300 but this is one I couldn't find in the net, maybe you have better luck.
Also I could offer you a contact to a company in Germany where you can get every size you need. I got my 296 mm from there (so they already have the measurements for the Ninja front rotor) and when I remember right the price incl. shipping was 175 USD. Feel free if you need me as translator.
Website is here: http://www.mx-tec.eu/
I attach the picture of mine.
Good luck :thumbup:

sharky nrk
June 20th, 2014, 06:08 AM
You would think there would be some other stock rotor that would bolt onto the bike?

gantt
July 10th, 2014, 07:10 PM
Searching for a decent priced caliper from the gsxr. Amazing how the right side cost more. Coincidence?? I think not. I don't want to pay over $35 with shipping. So I may have to hunt for a bit.

DeltaFoxtrotZulu
July 10th, 2014, 07:15 PM
Searching for a decent priced caliper from the gsxr. Amazing how the right side cost more. Coincidence?? I think not. I don't want to pay over $35 with shipping. So I may have to hunt for a bit.

Don't be in a hurry. As near as I can tell the adapter is a myth.

Bigballsofpaint
July 10th, 2014, 07:36 PM
Don't be in a hurry. As near as I can tell the adapter is a myth.

Where have you been? ;)
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=182732

DeltaFoxtrotZulu
July 10th, 2014, 07:59 PM
Ah. Cool. Guess I was waiting for it to show up from SV.

gantt
July 11th, 2014, 01:34 AM
I was actually going to make my own.

gantt
July 11th, 2014, 05:58 PM
Hey man I sent you a pm!!

subxero
July 12th, 2014, 04:57 AM
^ just FYI he hasn't signed in for 2months. Dunno what happened?

If you have questions they can always be asked in other caliper swap threads, like the group buy thread for the brembo/tokico bracket

gantt
July 12th, 2014, 08:05 AM
I noticed that. I was looking at a few tokico calipers on fleabay and noticed that there is a left and right listed separately and they look the same. My understanding is only the right will work for us. How do I distinguish from the two?? I'm also going to make a bracket tomorrow (hopefully) for the two piston tokico that comes on the ex 650. Just for kicks. Wouldn't mind putting a nicer set on the 650 one day. I never really thought about making my own bracket.

Bigballsofpaint
July 12th, 2014, 08:15 AM
Technically a left will work but it will need to be mounted upside down, ie the bracket would be different for the hole spacing. At least, thats what i think...

gantt
July 12th, 2014, 08:48 AM
I don't see why it would matter. Looks like the bracket would have to be longer. After studying some pictures I can tell the difference from left and right. EBay has a few miss listed as right sides.

gantt
July 17th, 2014, 02:40 AM
My caliper came in the yesterday. $26.95. Got to love fleabay.

Bigballsofpaint
July 17th, 2014, 06:26 AM
Same here, i paid under 30, just had to wait a few days for something to pop up. worth every penny

Xtina
July 18th, 2014, 10:14 AM
you guys are the reason I can only find left sides :doh:

gantt
July 20th, 2014, 10:14 AM
Probably so xtina!! The right sides are higher priced on average. I guess because of the higher demand. I just scored a set of six piston tokico's from a 'busa for $5 bucks on fleabay. Couldn't pass that up. I guess I will put them on the 650. For five bucks they could always hang up in my shop until I find a good use.

gantt
July 20th, 2014, 10:16 AM
And the real reason I clicked on this thread, OK so after six hours, two mountain dews, four fruit punch sodas and seven little Debbie cakes its done. Tools used; drill press, drill, bench grinder, hacksaw. This is the second bracket. The first was mainly used to get the bolt patterns figured out. Im going to paint the bracket and caliper one day. Make it look better. Still bleeding the brakes. Took a lunch break. Will ease down the road and see how it feels later. I think I can take a little fat off the bracket and still have good integrity. Still thinking about it. Its a little chubby around the edges.

gantt
July 20th, 2014, 11:04 AM
OK so I rode around the neighborhood for a bit. Initial bite is OK. I used the pads that came with the caliper. I'm sure new pads would be amazing. Definitely has more braking power. Easier to lock up front tire. It seems to be building more heat than normal. I know the disc brakes with slightly touch all the time. But it feels like there is too much resistance. With the front tire in the air I can spin it but it stops sooner than it used to. Maybe my caliper is misaligned? Doesn't appear to be. Any thoughts or tips??

Rassie
July 20th, 2014, 11:10 AM
Mount the caliper without the pads, make sure it is exactly in the middle of the caliper opening. I usually do this with the front end off the bike, not and option in this case, so I recommend you get the bike up high enough so you can look at it from below and above. Also check the alignment with a straight edge. The caliper must run 100% aligned with the rotor and 100% in the center otherwise it will produce the effect you are describing.

gantt
July 20th, 2014, 01:29 PM
Thanks rassie. I'm going t take the other bike to work until I have time to double check everything. The rotor is definitely getting too hot. Thanks for the information. So far the caliper rocks!!!

gantt
July 21st, 2014, 03:51 AM
Well I lost the keys to the 650 so I had to take the 250. I think the heat I felt was from how hard I was using the front brake yesterday. Still want to double check things but I think its OK. This thing feels good. Also show the weakness of the stock irc tire.

bruce71198
July 21st, 2014, 07:14 AM
Just found this thread, good info.
Here is the setup I built for my track bike which I tested for the first time this weekend.
320mm rotor with a 2002 GSXR600 caliper. It worked well, the only thing that I want to do is bump up a millimeter or 2 in master cylinder bore diameter to fine tune the brake feel.
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=1496&pictureid=11757

gantt
July 23rd, 2014, 11:43 AM
^^^^bruce, I like how your caliper bracket is behind the fork mount. for me to do that I would have to thread the bracket. that's not an issue to do. after I trim down the current bracket and I'm still not happy i'll make another and thread it. gives that area a much cleaner look. People are so caught up in "making it faster" that they never look into the things that really count. it's not all about straight line speed. I much prefer a good turn over triple digits in a straight.

ninja250r81
August 9th, 2014, 07:32 PM
Some more ideas

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brembo-Front-Floating-Rotor-and-Caliper-Kit-Ninja-250R-Ninja-250-EX250-/351134499558?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51c13f42e6

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brembo-CNC-Caliper-Kit-Kawasaki-Ninja-250R-300R-Ninja-250-300-EX250-/351115576054?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51c01e82f6

Maybe can use for a dual rotor setup (300mm rotors).
Could mount the ER6 right caliper as an upgrade

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KAWASAKI-ER6-ER6N-ER6F-Ninja-09-11-Front-Brake-Calipers-Set-ER-6N-ER-6F-EX-650-/261323385658?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3cd8166b3a

Rassie
August 20th, 2014, 06:56 AM
I just finished mounting a 06 ZX6R radial mount caliper and radial master cylinder (as part of a ZX6R front end swap, to be posted later). The lever feels wooden and it takes quite a bit of pressure to stop the bike. Having said that I have only gone up the road once, so it may be that it is required to be "broken in" so to speak since I am using the stock front wheel and rotor.

I think the radial master cylinder may be overkill for the one caliper. Anyone here have experience with this sort of thing to advise on what to do. I will try the stock master cylinder (since I have it) next.

Somchai
August 20th, 2014, 07:04 AM
I just finished mounting a 06 ZX6R radial mount caliper and radial master cylinder (as part of a ZX6R front end swap, to be posted later). The lever feels wooden and it takes quite a bit of pressure to stop the bike. Having said that I have only gone up the road once, so it may be that it is required to be "broken in" so to speak since I am using the stock front wheel and rotor.

I think the radial master cylinder may be overkill for the one caliper. Anyone here have experience with this sort of thing to advise on what to do. I will try the stock master cylinder (since I have it) next.

Please note, for a radial caliper the radial master is a must have

Rassie
August 20th, 2014, 09:00 AM
Please note, for a radial caliper the radial master is a must have

Hows that? A radial caliper is just like any other caliper in design except the way that it is mounted. Radially mounted means it bolts up in a radial fashion meaning the same direction the wheel and rotor is traveling. Otherwise they are the same. The radial master means the same thing, the piston travels in the same direction, front to back as opposed to a regular master cylinder that travels from right to left. So the leverage is different, essentially with a radial master you have more leverage and control, meaning more accurate braking. Therefore you also measure the force they exert on the piston differently.

Having said that I have found out that I have a way to large master cylinder piston size for just the one caliper. You calculate 2 things. The amount of hydraulic leverage , Pi X Radius Squared, and also hydraulic ratio and mechanical to arrive at an overall ratio. See the article below. Interesting read it was, took me a few times to get it but now I am all set. Based on my calculations the stock master cylinder is closer to ideal, so I will try that first and if it does not work I will buy a Brembo adjustable.

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/Nov2012Tech.pdf

Rassie
August 20th, 2014, 11:03 AM
So I figured out through some basic math that the stock master cylinder will work better than the radial master. Just taking into account the hydraulic pressure ratios.

ZX6R Master cylinder bore seems to be 18mm (based on what I could find online)
The ZX6R calipers pistons are 32mm.
Using the formula quoted above then.
3.1416 x 9 x 9 = 254.46
3.1416 x 16 x 16 = 804.25 x 8 pistons = 6434.
6434 / 254.46 = 25 to 1 ratio.

The 300 MS bore is 12.7mm
3.1416 x 6.35 x 6.35 = 126.68
3.1416 x 16 x 16 = 804.25 x 4 pistons (using single caliper) = 3217.
3217 / 126.68 = 25.39 to 1.

So 25 to 1 is about the right number for this application. I have to factor in lever travel and such but I think it is close enough to try it without further math.

subxero
August 20th, 2014, 11:44 AM
Some more ideas

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brembo-Front-Floating-Rotor-and-Caliper-Kit-Ninja-250R-Ninja-250-EX250-/351134499558?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51c13f42e6

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brembo-CNC-Caliper-Kit-Kawasaki-Ninja-250R-300R-Ninja-250-300-EX250-/351115576054?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51c01e82f6

Maybe can use for a dual rotor setup (300mm rotors).
Could mount the ER6 right caliper as an upgrade

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KAWASAKI-ER6-ER6N-ER6F-Ninja-09-11-Front-Brake-Calipers-Set-ER-6N-ER-6F-EX-650-/261323385658?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3cd8166b3a

I have the same set up with the 4pot brembo and a 320mm rotor and I did it all including the new rotor and new pads for under $300 :thumbup:


So I figured out through some basic math that the stock master cylinder will work better than the radial master. Just taking into account the hydraulic pressure ratios.

ZX6R Master cylinder bore seems to be 18mm (based on what I could find online)
.....

don't even need to do math to tell you that 18mm MC is way to large for a single caliper even if it is radial.

15 is probably where you want to be maybe even the stock 13.

There are a few threads around about caliper swaps, don't be afraid to check out the ones in the new gen section as the brakes are the same.

I have a brembo axial 4 pot on my bike and the stock 13 was not working well at all. I went to the adjustable brembo RC15 or whatever it is called and it is great for my set up :thumbup:

Other members who are using Tokico axial 4 pot calipers on stock rotors seem to have no problem with the stock MC.

sharky nrk
August 20th, 2014, 01:40 PM
The stock master does suck though, no doubt. But there are plenty of people that make me look really really stupid on the brakes with stock caliper/rotor/master so - its not a necessity

Somchai
August 20th, 2014, 09:37 PM
Hows that?

I think the way I said it in my answer wasn't correct all the way, since english isn't my native language so sometimes I'm not using the right word and I hope you could forgive me for that.
I'd better said 'you should better use' or in a way like that.

But please let me remind you about another thing (and I hope to find the right words for that), since the front fork of the Ninjette could become the weakest point of the system at all when you are using a strong brake(-system) made for a SS.
Let me try to explain this: a SS normally has a front fork with 50mm diameter and also it is USD, so the triples are tight at the strong 50mm outside of the fork and the inner tube is a real short part of the whole fork only, also this while braking is ?diving? and so it becomes shorter at least - so nothing dangerous and not to mention that the triples are made from aluminum.
Now the Ninjette: she got a 37mm front fork (the lowest level) where the triples are tight to the much longer inner tube which means at the weaker part of the whole fork. With heavy braking this could mean that the tube itself can bend what must not and normally will not result in breaking, but at least that's not good and could be dangerous.
So when you mount bigger rotors and/or calipers from a SS, better don't exaggerate.
By the way, I'm using a Brembo caliper and at least I think that only this is already more then enough for this little bike. :thumbup:

micoulisninja
August 21st, 2014, 04:16 AM
I think the way I said it in my answer wasn't correct all the way, since english isn't my native language so sometimes I'm not using the right word and I hope you could forgive me for that.
I'd better said 'you should better use' or in a way like that.

But please let me remind you about another thing (and I hope to find the right words for that), since the front fork of the Ninjette could become the weakest point of the system at all when you are using a strong brake(-system) made for a SS.
Let me try to explain this: a SS normally has a front fork with 50mm diameter and also it is USD, so the triples are tight at the strong 50mm outside of the fork and the inner tube is a real short part of the whole fork only, also this while braking is ?diving? and so it becomes shorter at least - so nothing dangerous and not to mention that the triples are made from aluminum.
Now the Ninjette: she got a 37mm front fork (the lowest level) where the triples are tight to the much longer inner tube which means at the weaker part of the whole fork. With heavy braking this could mean that the tube itself can bend what must not and normally will not result in breaking, but at least that's not good and could be dangerous.
So when you mount bigger rotors and/or calipers from a SS, better don't exaggerate.
By the way, I'm using a Brembo caliper and at least I think that only this is already more then enough for this little bike. :thumbup:

I've seen it happen on my friend's 250 when we had to brake hard while speeding because of bumps and holes on the pavement...
he got into a quite large hole while still heavy on the brakes and left fork got bent by a bit... I got lucky, no damage but instead of using his 320mm rotor+brembo 4-pot+ huge master, I am only using yamaha R1 04 brembo master(radial) and 4-pot sumitomo caliper, stock rotor...bites quite a lot but just not enough to damage anything...

this keeps making me wonder what can be done to improve stiffness down there... I was thinking of some kind of supermoto clamp stuff but there is just not enough room there... I tried fitting a second front fender holder (the metal pieces that hugs the tire in front of the tubes but it would take a lot of work and bending at other points and it didn't look strong enough again...

any ideas ?? because I believe it is a key thing in order for that mod to be of result under any condition without need to alter the whole front system...there must be some way...

Somchai
August 22nd, 2014, 10:37 PM
I've seen it happen on my friend's 250 when we had to brake hard while speeding because of bumps and holes on the pavement...
he got into a quite large hole while still heavy on the brakes and left fork got bent by a bit... I got lucky, no damage but instead of using his 320mm rotor+brembo 4-pot+ huge master, I am only using yamaha R1 04 brembo master(radial) and 4-pot sumitomo caliper, stock rotor...bites quite a lot but just not enough to damage anything...

this keeps making me wonder what can be done to improve stiffness down there... I was thinking of some kind of supermoto clamp stuff but there is just not enough room there... I tried fitting a second front fender holder (the metal pieces that hugs the tire in front of the tubes but it would take a lot of work and bending at other points and it didn't look strong enough again...

any ideas ?? because I believe it is a key thing in order for that mod to be of result under any condition without need to alter the whole front system...there must be some way...

Hey Nick,

nice to read from you and I hope your well also you're having success with your project.

I'm sorry to have no clear answer to your question about the fork, the only tipp i'd have is to watch here https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showpost.php?p=907283&postcount=151
At least an usd would be the best way to go and this one for 250 Euro could be a solution http://empiremotoshop.com/products/186/0/Upside-Down/

Good luck and have a nice weekend :thumbup:

micoulisninja
August 23rd, 2014, 06:33 AM
Hey Nick,

nice to read from you and I hope your well also you're having success with your project.

I'm sorry to have no clear answer to your question about the fork, the only tipp i'd have is to watch here https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showpost.php?p=907283&postcount=151
At least an usd would be the best way to go and this one for 250 Euro could be a solution http://empiremotoshop.com/products/186/0/Upside-Down/

Good luck and have a nice weekend :thumbup:

Hi Roland...
well, yeah I'm back and re-designing piece by piece a new whole exhaust system for my new project and so far I am just about to finish welding primary pipes down to link... I am now routing it like stock 300, left of the oil pan, then turn to the right... probably will be ready by end of next week so by 1st September I'll be taking apart the new engine for the modifications...

Anyway, nice and shiny and probably stiffer than stock those upside-down forks... but I have no feedback on anyone having them tested with aftermarket springs and stuff in the track and under extreme conditions to say HOW stiff and well performing they really are when braking hard say from 100mph down to 40 on the front wheel... or how they work while flicking the bike from one side to the other, then speeding and braking hard again while going through a few bumps on a road... have you tried it ?? I would take your opinion very seriously into account if your bike is already equiped with that...
As I have mentioned about a year ago, the european choice for upgrade is the good and tested whole front system from a 2-stroke aprilia rs125 that is almost "plug and play".... only problem is hard to find, a bit pricey as well and wheel travel is by a hair shorter...

However, what I was pointing out (and looking for any ideas) is what can be done to the STOCK front system to make it more rigid under heavy braking....

choneofakind
August 23rd, 2014, 09:37 AM
Roland, I see what you're saying about fork flex under braking. However, it's a moot point.

You can lock the front wheel and nose-wheelie with the stock brakes if you so desire. The limiting point of your braking power, regardless of the brake rotor, is the tires. The large aftermarket rotor and stock rotor provide the same ultimate brake force, the difference is in the effort required by the rider at the lever, the amount of modulation available to the rider, and the ability to dissipate heat during repeated heavy braking.

What I'm saying is, since the tires limit the ultimate braking power, a larger rotor and better caliper setup will make no more fork flex than the stock setup.

Rassie
August 23rd, 2014, 10:19 AM
I am way ahead of you guys. Take a look at my posted pictures. I do not think I will have any problems. As a matter of fact I rode the bike about 30 miles this morning and everything is working great even rear wheel lofting stoppies are no problem. The forks are day and night difference and the handling has much sharper but more secure turn in. I did notice my tires are at the end of their life though.

choneofakind
August 23rd, 2014, 10:34 AM
Nice! Is it an entire ZX6 front end? Swap bearings and install it, right? Any oddities to keep in mind while doing so?


That looks great. Did you check to make sure the geometry is the same? What spring rate? How do you like having adjustable damping?

micoulisninja
August 23rd, 2014, 10:55 AM
goodness Rassie !! how on earth did that fit so perfectly there ?? that looks really :bow: I want want want !!!

beautiful and simple !! give as some feedback... how does it handle? what about clipons, which did you use ? other mods ? what about length and wheel travel ? spring stiffness ?? I really envy that mod !!:clapping::thumbup:

which zx6 model is the donor ? and how on earth did you fit the stock fender so nicely ?

Rassie
August 23rd, 2014, 10:58 AM
Nice! Is it an entire ZX6 front end? Swap bearings and install it, right? Any oddities to keep in mind while doing so?

That looks great. Did you check to make sure the geometry is the same? What spring rate? How do you like having adjustable damping?

Nope had to make a section of the lower stem that could press into the the ZX6R lower triple clamp after I pressed the old one out, then weld it to the upper section of the 300/250 stem. Then it bolts right up with some new tapered bearings.

Geometry is the same except the wheelbase is now about 18mm shorter. Have not adjusted anything yet but backed out the preload all the way. Spring rates seem to be spot on for my weight (185lbs).

Rassie
August 23rd, 2014, 01:35 PM
You Ninjitsu will be pleased to know that I plan to produce a few of these as kits, strictly for racing purposes only off course.

All donor parts are from a 2006 ZX6R. So here are pictures of some of the parts that make the triple clamp work. You will see that the part that was welded onto the original stem was turned from a solid piece and there is overlap where the one pushes into the other so I had plenty of material to run a very deep penetrating weld around it. After welding it was checked to make sure it is true. The wheel required some spacers to be made and I used the original axle. The caliper mounts were too long for the stock rotor so I machined them down some. I had to make a jig to hold it while machining it. I had to space out the rotor as well with 5 spacers. On the left fork I just cut off the caliper mounts. Did not want the extra weight of 2 rotors and 2 calipers since the one produces more than enough stopping power.

I cut the ignition mount off of the top triple clamp and made my own mounting plate, waiting for carbon fiber to arrive so I can dress it up. I wanted to use as many stock parts as possible to keep cost down. However you can use an 07 to 09 top triple that has the ignition mount in the right place.

Initial riding impressions are that it is much more planted than stock. Very little diving under braking, very stable when leaned over. Tip in is faster. I did drop the forks 5mm earlier today so will ride it tomorrow to test it out. I have also not checked the settings on the forks yet. I can however tell that the spring rates feel perfect for my weight and my preference. Stiff, yet compliant. I am writing a blog entry that will show everything in detail and it will be posted on my website when finished.

micoulisninja
August 23rd, 2014, 04:13 PM
I can't express myself in words about that piece of work so....
:allhail:

about time you fit some decent kawasaki-ss-swingarm too...
I am already saving some pennies... I really want that on my bike !

Somchai
August 23rd, 2014, 06:13 PM
Wow Rassie a big compliment from me, well done and great looking :thumbup:

Rassie
August 25th, 2014, 10:58 AM
about time you fit some decent kawasaki-ss-swingarm too...
I am already saving some pennies... I really want that on my bike !

Interesting..I am duly intrigued..where can I get hold of said SS swingarm that is a bolt on for the 300?

I have a VFR750 swingarm and wheel sitting on my shelf but it is heavy as shyte..heavier than stock....

micoulisninja
August 26th, 2014, 06:04 AM
yeah, I know what you mean... I have a honda bros 400 proarm and it just isn't the thing for the ninjette...
how about measuring a ZX6 swingarm ?? I've seen them fitted on Z-750 without any serious mods and I believe it's gonna be a matter of narrowing down the pivot area to get that in place.... or even better an RS 250 s/a....
options are Beet swingarm and some by empireshop but I guess you prefer messing around with other models' stock parts....

willi777
August 26th, 2014, 06:32 AM
Awesome job Rassie on the front end swap- looks factory and bad-ass at the same time. Either the VFR400 or RVF400 swingarms, aka nc30 and nc35 i believe, swingarm pivots of 192mmm and 202mm, or thereabouts, but pivot diameter will not match... have a feeling that won't be an issue for you

Rassie
August 26th, 2014, 07:17 AM
Maybe I will just add some bracing to my stock swingarm. Honestly the Ninjette swingarms have never caused me any issues in handling. The front ends are a different story. I will fit a GSXR750 rear shock in the coming weeks to fix the rear end. I will also see if I can find a ZX6R swingarm I can try or maybe a Versus one, they look bad ass.

micoulisninja
August 26th, 2014, 10:18 AM
Maybe I will just add some bracing to my stock swingarm. Honestly the Ninjette swingarms have never caused me any issues in handling. The front ends are a different story. I will fit a GSXR750 rear shock in the coming weeks to fix the rear end. I will also see if I can find a ZX6R swingarm I can try or maybe a Versus one, they look bad ass.

brilliant idea !! but what about shock mounting on the side ?? :confused20:

Rassie
August 26th, 2014, 12:50 PM
Good point, may require some serious frame mods..probably not worth it.

old3
August 28th, 2014, 06:55 AM
SV Racing emailed me today, their version of the brake caliper mount is in stock, ready to ship. Email Blair for ordering info as I don't see it on his site yet.

old3
August 28th, 2014, 11:39 AM
From Blair at SV Racing...

Thanks, have people Email me Directly at b.layton@svracingparts.com for now and I will set up a direct purchase link very soon on the website,

Enjoy the ride, and best regards,
Blair

sharky nrk
August 29th, 2014, 07:27 AM
good to hear, although I figured this had fallen off lol

old3
September 4th, 2014, 08:06 PM
First pic of the SVR brake bracket.

https://webtop.webmail.optimum.net/http/viewattachment?clientId=1409883599481&locale&disp=inline&accountId&folder=INBOX&uid=15052&part=1

Rassie
September 5th, 2014, 07:57 AM
First pic of the SVR brake bracket.

https://webtop.webmail.optimum.net/http/viewattachment?clientId=1409883599481&locale&disp=inline&accountId&folder=INBOX&uid=15052&part=1

Can't see the picture.

allanoue
September 5th, 2014, 08:29 AM
First pic of the SVR brake bracket.

https://webtop.webmail.optimum.net/http/viewattachment?clientId=1409883599481&locale&disp=inline&accountId&folder=INBOX&uid=15052&part=1

HTTP Status 500 - AUTHENTICATION_REQUIRED

type Status report

message AUTHENTICATION_REQUIRED

description The server encountered an internal error (AUTHENTICATION_REQUIRED) that prevented it from fulfilling this request.

Apache Tomcat/6.0.24

old3
September 6th, 2014, 07:50 PM
Blair is sending more pics. I have one in hand today and I'll take a pic in a few minutes too. It is a great looking and very light piece. I'm tempted to remove my 320mm rotor to be able to use it.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o85/sv-racing-parts/20140904_195307_zps3df08a21.jpg

SV Racing Parts
September 6th, 2014, 07:58 PM
Should be in your inbox any moment now,

I hope you like the look of the Ninja Brake Caliper Adapter Brackets, if they are well received at all I can make them a permanent stocking part for all of our benefit,

Thanks and best regards,
Blair

old3
September 6th, 2014, 08:21 PM
This is the one I got today!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10606348_594708750648719_2894015833398250847_n.jpg?oh=9f3b89e6d57e2cf2e6f65f17b3 7f53d3&oe=54911091&__gda__=1418069033_fc412653361bf36b91bc25c68c64e76e

Support a company who is willing to support us! The SV Racing Ninjette rear sets are awesome too. I'm trying to convince him to build us a fork brace next!

http://www.svracingparts.com/

I know it took a long time to come, but this is a nice piece and if the market is there, I'm betting we see more Ninjette stuff from Blair.

(fork brace--fork brace--fork brace--fork brace) :D

SV Racing Parts
September 6th, 2014, 08:28 PM
There are two choices on 4 Piston Calipers to use with our bikes; First; The Nissin 4 Piston Calipers from the Honda CBR600 F4 - F4i All Model Years 1999 to 2006, the CBR 929 – CBR 954 Model Years 2000 – 2003, or the CBR 600RR Model Years 2003 -2004 or the Honda RC-51 years 2001 and up. The Nissin Calipers have 1mm larger pistons for a braking advantage. These are the calipers I use on my bikes.

Or; The Tokico 4 Piston Calipers from the GSXR 600 2001 - 2003, GSXR 750 2000 - 2003 and All Model Years of the SV1000, these are all the same Tokico Calipers,

Enjoy the ride, and best regards,
Blair

Somchai
September 6th, 2014, 08:30 PM
SV Racing Parts
Blair, maybe you could think about the famous Brembo calipers also (just as thinking a little bit louder).
But anyway I wish you a good business :thumbup:

SV Racing Parts
September 6th, 2014, 08:37 PM
:) One step at a time, I will be working on the alternatives once we see how well these are accepted, My experience on other bikes that I produce these Caliper Adapter Brackets for is that that they work very well and especially when combined with our SS Line offerings and Nissin Radial Master Cylinder offering on the website,

SV Racing Parts has some very nice braking solutions,

BTW, I am also close to releasing our high strength 415 Chain and Sprockets Combinations as well,

Enjoy the ride, and best regards,
Blair

subxero
September 7th, 2014, 05:12 AM
looks like a nice product, unfortunately i think you might just a hair late on it here though. I'm sure you will make some sales though :thumbup:

You'll probably do ok with it on that other ninja website.

I like the back plate that the bolts screw into :thumbup:

SV Racing Parts
Blair, maybe you could think about the famous Brembo calipers also (just as thinking a little bit louder).
But anyway I wish you a good business :thumbup:

Judging by how things with the brembo adapter have gone here, i would not advise it, seems like a waste. It would appear most people would rather save $100 or more on the caliper and go with the tokico or nissin. calipers vs the brembo, but then again the adapter available through Jay for the brembo is also for a larger rotor so what do i know?

micoulisninja
September 7th, 2014, 06:51 AM
Support a company who is willing to support us! The SV Racing Ninjette rear sets are awesome too. I'm trying to convince him to build us a fork brace next!

http://www.svracingparts.com/

I know it took a long time to come, but this is a nice piece and if the market is there, I'm betting we see more Ninjette stuff from Blair.

(fork brace--fork brace--fork brace--fork brace) :D

I'm definetely in for that... no more chattering !!!
fork brace--fork brace--fork brace :bounce:

SV Racing Parts
September 7th, 2014, 09:22 AM
The Back Plate is an awesome addition to the complete Brake Caliper Adapter Brackets.

These are excellent parts that will serve Ninja Riders well,

Best regards,
Blair

old3
September 7th, 2014, 09:48 AM
I'm on a 320 and 6p Tokico, so my son gets this lil gem.

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10639543_594994243953503_6132947475287856266_n.jpg?oh=b813780b1390561f4deaee61ad c161dd&oe=549F66ED

Nice piece Blair. Far nicer than my original aluminum brick!

SV Racing Parts
September 7th, 2014, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the image and for the kudos Jim, I appreciate it.

Best regards,
Blair

old3
September 7th, 2014, 10:36 AM
Quick note, Blair is already working on it. The two short bolts in the kit are incorrect. You can use the stock bolts in the rear position and it is fine. Looks like someone eyeballed the wrong end for the caliper mount as the 20mm bolts would be perfect if that was where it went.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10377525_595008413952086_5196078578447381119_n.jpg?oh=5992a7d2fbe914a0f4190fea96 2d3684&oe=54A87F69&__gda__=1420342453_e22f40e10f4bcb88c6bb2250b4b833c5

old3
September 7th, 2014, 10:38 AM
I started breaking in the pads for my son, all I can say is SHAME on Kawi for not using a 4 piston caliper on these bikes. What a difference!