...on your bike?

how tight? "the box" at MSF?

Not so much with gloves and my sv clp-ons, unless with a little rear brake ;)

how tight? "the box" at MSF?

I'm not sure how tight "the box" would be, so I wrote in the 18 and 24 foot diameters for reference.

Lane width is roughly 12ft, so it's like going from the outside of the lane (when pulling a U-turn) to the outside of the number 1 lane upon exiting the U-turn (for the 24ft diameter).

I can do full-lock turns pretty easily on the ninjette. It's a little more challenging on the RT, and it's quite challenging on the 10R. Some of the differences are due to weight, but steering geometry plays a big part as well. Some people recommend using the rear brake to control the bike during these, but personally I don't use that technique and typically stay off the brakes altogether.

I always use the rear brake to balance the slipping clutch.

I always use the rear brake to balance the slipping clutch.

I keep the bike in the "friction zone" by modulating the rear brake and keeping the RPM's around twice idle.

By using the rear brake, the bike behaves like it would if it were going much faster. So, you can pull much tighter turns.

It's a California Highway Patrol trick (along with "the dip") :thumbup:

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The MSF Box is 20 x 60. Did it, did it practicing on the '01 250, need some clean parking lots to try it on the new one (and a big inflatable mattress just in case)

http://www.msf-usa.org/MSTS/PDFs/BRC_Color_Range_Layout.pdf

I usually just do a stoppie and turn it around on a dime. That wasn't an option though, and I'm sure not everyone has that mad of skillz. Pity... ;)

I always use the rear brake to balance the slipping clutch.

ditto. No problems with the old-gen. Haven't done a uey on a new-gen yet though...

most bikes are basically the same. it's all about getting used to where the friction zone is for each individual bike. slight adjustments with the clutch lever adjuster really helps to what you are used to when going from bike to bike. :thumbup:

I usually just do a stoppie and turn it around on a dime. That wasn't an option though, and I'm sure not everyone has that mad of skillz. Pity... ;)

lol i was wondering why that wasnt an option ;)

I havent measured my u-turns, but i know i've gotten much better as time has gone by. I can almost do a full-lock turn but am always ready to put down a foot if needed.

you guys have it all wrong, downshift from 6 all the way to 1st as fast as you can, burnout 'till about 180 degrees =]

I just started riding about a month ago and I was horrible at U turns on that Elim 125 at the MSF course. On the Ninja tho, it's really easy. I can get it within 20 ft no prob.

that is the only thing i failed in the msf course. i have gotten better, but i still think i would fail the MSF box. i have watched a few how-to videos without success.

as far as what my turning diameter is now? i don't know.

To get on the onpost cert. we had to do the MSF riding test on our own bike. After I had practiced it for 45 minutes, and figured out (remembered?) the friction zone and ride it in 2nd gear, it wasn't difficult, esp after I remembered (reminded) to look at the far corner and the bike will go in that direction.

The riders with bigger bikes got to use a bigger box, mine was the small one.
Not sure what the size was, someone said 20.

nb

why 2nd gear?

why 2nd gear?

At the time, and I still am rough, I didn't have very good throttle control and for me it was easier to ride it 2nd. In 1st, I was surging all over the place.

nb

surging or driveline snatch? in first, try holding the revs steady between 2-3k, drag the rear brake while letting out the clutch to the friction point to control the forward speed of the bike. more/less pressure of the rear brake controls your speed. on dirt bikes you can come to an almost complete stop while doing this while not putting your feet down. works out great for street bikes to let the bike go slower than first gear allows otherwise.

the steady throttle position takes care of the surging and dragging the brake takes out the driveline snatch.

also, to help cure the surging, shim your needles for smoother throttle control at the lower revs. :)

The "Alternate MOST", which 29 states use for the vehicle skills test, has a "Box" width of 24' for 500 cc and above and 20' for under 500 cc. In the MSF class, practice is with the 24' box, while the final skills test is with a 20' box.

If you wish to practice the U-Turn, go to a large (empty) commercial parking lot. The standard parking space is 8 1/2' wide, so 3 spaces is 25 1/2', while 2 spaces is 17'. Every few weeks, I practice in an empty lot and have gotten to where I can do the U-turn in 17' (2 spaces). You must force yourself to look way behind in the direction you wish to turn.

The Capt Crash U-turn video covers all the above. Good Luck :D

Don, if you're really worried about her when you practice it, you can always do it street-fighter style with the plastics off...

Those tight u-turns are tricky. Half the time i could make the Uturn in the box just fine, but sometimes i would be about 3-6 inches out from it.

The absolute BEST advice i could give is to TURN YOUR HEAD!!! This helped me alot.

+1 to darkknight49 & ninjabrewer

Not sure how tight I'm capable of turning, but I pull u-turns every day in my parking garage so I can swing the bike around and park it behind my car. I'd guess it's about 25 feet wide between parking stalls?

Don, if you're really worried about her when you practice it, you can always do it street-fighter style with the plastics off...

I like that idea - I'll bet that would look wicked to - hmmmmm

if you think plastics are expensive, consider the cost of a new tank or engine case parts. :p

best way... don't drop the bike!!! :D

running around naked does have its disadvantages... wait, that didn't sound right!!! :police1:

running around naked does have its disadvantages

Nonsense!

Nonsense!

... and who advised you of that??? your lawyer or your probation officer? :lol:

I can turn my raked out chopper around in a residental back street just barely. The little 250 I can turn around in a parking spot, lol. Lean that little thing WAAAAAAAAAY over but keep your body straight up!

in2tJm1D1bM

dude i have an 02 ninja and i can pull a u'y without going outside of a lane its not to hard to push these little guys around in a circle

Practice U-turns both ways! I got good at doing them to the left, full lock even. Then the Idaho skills test administrator had everyone do them to the RIGHT that day. Let's just say... I failed that part (still passed overall, though).

I can do it but I cant fully flat foot so I go wider than necessary.

I found three things that really helped:

1) Using 2nd gear
2) Using Rear brake
3) Balancing on balls of feet (I think I read that in Keith Code's book and it really works)

Also, watch the "Ride like a Pro Videos" and doing the exercises, living in downtown DC and parking in a very tight underground fallout shelter converted to garage.

20 Feet is no problem. Just finished the advanced course--a real good time. Had the smallest bike there but was told it was the snappiest on the course. There was no doubt in anybody`s mind that the Ninjette really handles. I let the instructor ride the bike and he definitely raised some eyebrows. Bigger is not always better. He plans to buy a Ninjette after that ride. Told him he should definitely join our family. He could give us some good insight.

I can now do it in <18ft. I failed the msf u-turn box (but not the class!). I used to be scared of getting it down. This morning I scraped a foot going 25 maybe.. :)

I still feel somewhat uncomfortable doing a tight u-turn with a passenger, unless it is with my 105 pound asian "friend"

I can now do it in <18ft. I failed the msf u-turn box (but not the class!). I used to be scared of getting it down. This morning I scraped a foot going 25 maybe.. :)

I still feel somewhat uncomfortable doing a tight u-turn with a passenger, unless it is with my 105 pound asian "friend"

As I don't ever ride 2up I don't know if I have the same skills with a passenger on board

What are some opinions on counter-leaning in the U-turn? I've noticed that as I initiate the turn, it feels more under control when I counter lean; but when I execute the full maneuver, I shift from leaning outside to inside of it, coming back upright as I make my exit.

/moved to Riding Skills area

for super slow speed super tight u-turns (... i seem to only ever do left u-turns) i find myself full lock with throttle and some rear brake, then i seem to always wind up leaning to the outside pushing the bike down a little further... i usually have my inside foot off the peg just in case i screw something up... :2cents:

What are some opinions on counter-leaning in the U-turn? I've noticed that as I initiate the turn, it feels more under control when I counter lean; but when I execute the full maneuver, I shift from leaning outside to inside of it, coming back upright as I make my exit.

You can get tighter turns by counter-leaning, or at least in my mind you can :D




Here's a good way to practice your u-turns since it makes you practice both left and right turns. :thumbup:
I got it from here (http://www.southbayriders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113849).

nt28gpI-RkE

woah dead thread revival. Anyways, not entirely sure what you mean by counter leaning, but keeping your body upright and leaning the bike over makes it easier (probably what you are referring to) I think the most important thing is to just look where you want to go. I can easily do U-turns in around 15 feet or less, with a mixture of clutch, throttle and rear brake control. With my girlfriend on the back we could get them around 25 feet, then when I told her to turn her head all the way around and look to where she thinks we will be going like I was doing, we got them under 20 feet, which is the msf box. (using parking spaces that are 10 feet wide). I think for your transition from leaning outside to inside is just natural, because as you accelerate out of the u-turn the bike wants to stand up

woah dead thread revival. Anyways, not entirely sure what you mean by counter leaning, but keeping your body upright and leaning the bike over makes it easier (probably what you are referring to) I think the most important thing is to just look where you want to go. I can easily do U-turns in around 15 feet or less, with a mixture of clutch, throttle and rear brake control. With my girlfriend on the back we could get them around 25 feet, then when I told her to turn her head all the way around and look to where she thinks we will be going like I was doing, we got them under 20 feet, which is the msf box. (using parking spaces that are 10 feet wide). I think for your transition from leaning outside to inside is just natural, because as you accelerate out of the u-turn the bike wants to stand up

I agree with that last part. Curious to know if it's a common experience. Also, "counter-leaning" can be described as trying to stay more upright during the turn (body weight counter to the turn) in this scenario. I'm about to go out for a round of u-turns and stops in a bit here.:)

Definitely counter lean when doing a tight U-turn. Weight the outside peg, pushing the bike up under you. Use a little rear brake if you need to, though I only find it necessary if I'm pulling a U-ey on a slight hill.

I can easily do the 20' box (with several feet to spare) as long as I keep it in second gear.

(I was doing the advanced MSF rider course, and the only other student was a guy riding a Harley V-Rod. He easily cleared it as well.)

I found it easy to do u turns on the 250, but I also ride a Ducati 1098 and that thing is hard to do a u turn on a football field!!!!!!!!!!!

After I took the Lee Parks Total Control class. I was much better at u turns. I practice with scooters when I worked in a motorcycle shop. Now I can do figure eights and circles upturns are still tough. And the bigger the bike the harder I find it. Keep practicing.

.....Now I can do figure eights and circles upturns are still tough. And the bigger the bike the harder I find it. ...

A combination of vision and rear brake application during the turns can do marvelous things.

"The Moto Gymkhana course is made up of a series of points and you ride the course by going in the shortest possible distance from point to point. Rather than waiting for the next point to come into view, the skilled Moto Gymkhana rider 'snaps' their head towards the next point as soon as they possibly can. They then use their tunnel (foveal) vision for direction and their peripheral vision for location so they know exactly where they are going and exactly where they are on the course.

This head snap technique is perfectly illustarted by Momoko Tsukihara on her Kawasaki ZRX1200R at a recent competition in Japan
wach the rapidity of her head movements and see that she gets her nose pointing where she wants to go at the optimum moments in the attack.

By practicing this technique, riders will find that they turn much faster and easier and have a much better sense of location than they ever did before."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-wfVjpGZlY&feature=player_embedded

o-wfVjpGZlY

I would like to try that on my old Aprilia sr50.

I can do it on the MSF Rebel but I don't want to try it on my Ninjette. :(

I can, but I'm horrible at low speed maneuvers and everything looks sketchy. I never saw the need to practice them. All my riding is high speed.

boyracerprobs

If I know the road doesn't have gravel on it, I can pull as tight of a u-turn as my center stand (left) and exhaust (right) will let me. I know this because I've had pucker moments on each side doing tight turns. If I'm unsure about the road condition, I can still lean pretty far over, but I feel less confident about it.

Less then 18' for me.

It seems to be easier with a GSX-R1000 :)

No hands after 0:30

Cue-DMQHWSk

Nice video, he looks like a cat playing around.

It seems to be easier with a GSX-R1000 :)

No hands after 0:30


90BxTrAADi4

It seems to be easier with a GSX-R1000 :)

No hands after 0:30



It's a known fact, outside this forum, the GSXR1000 is the best in the corners (even tight ones).

never measured a u-turn before, but i know i can pull one smaller then the width of 2 lanes of traffic.

90BxTrAADi4

That would have been cool if they threw him a book or something and started reading it. lol

90BxTrAADi4

Regardless of what's under that gear, that dude is hot! DAMN! How cool! I ride no-hands on my bicycle around turns all the time, but that right there is simply admirable!