EDIT: This is one of those threads that needs to be read past the first post. There is a good discussion below about why this tool may not deliver the expected results, along with why that is the case. Heck, I was even able to change Kelly's mind. :) - Alex

Something we all must do on a regular basis and seems easy enough... even a caveman could do it. Well maybe, maybe not. Ugg.

Some history... I changed tires on my bike a few months back and in doing so had to remove the wheels from the bike. Upon reinstallation, I used the marks on the side of the chain adjusters as my guide. Big mistake as I was informed by Alex these markings are not symmetrical from top and bottom, so if you inadvertently flipped the adjustment blocks over, you were not using a common reference at that point and more than likely using them would result in a misaligned rear wheel. Even if you do get them back on correctly, there is so much slop between them and the axle which slides in them, getting an accurately aligned rear wheel is a gamble.

Moral of the story, don't use them as your guide... they are not accurate.

Okay, so I went looking for other methods of aligning the rear wheel during chain adjustments. I read where Vex used the adjuster bolts sticking out the back and set the threads sticking out to the same amount. Sounds like an excellent way to assure alignment, so I readjusted my adjusters so they were in agreement between the left and right side. Ah, finally I had my rear wheel properly aligned. Or was it??

Recently, after switching to clip ons, I have had a weird front end wobbling problem. Among a host of other things, improper rear wheel alignment was a possible cause. So I set out again to find a fool proof method of rear wheel alignment.

There are methods of using strings and measurements that you can do to figure out proper rear wheel alignment, but I settled on a tool by Motion Pro.

I order it and this is what shows up a few days later in the mail.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zT5Za4GI/AAAAAAAACyI/_Lehsjeb2K0/s640/DSC05129-1.JPG

and the instructions...
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zUwcdNOI/AAAAAAAACyQ/0WsPy-qrR1I/s640/DSC05130-1.JPG

unpack the pieces and assemble them. You get the mounting block, a steel pointer and instructions. Damn, I think to myself, what a rip off!! :( How good can this thing be??? I could do the same thing with my naked eye!!! :mad:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zVoPBNAI/AAAAAAAACyc/22Ph2t5CtXM/s640/DSC05131-1.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zWLbGgPI/AAAAAAAACyk/JmqPoT6V3qQ/s640/DSC05132-1.JPG


So, I mosey outside, put the bike up on the rear stand and proceed to take off the chain guard. Remove two 10mm bolts to remove it.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zkS2dACI/AAAAAAAAC08/TGo-AI_B5ts/s640/DSC05151-1.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zXDUw3HI/AAAAAAAACys/YIg2C3LsmpE/s640/DSC05133-1.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zXxH7b9I/AAAAAAAACy0/TjyfSDvyK3k/s640/DSC05134-1.JPG

As an initial check, I mount the alignment tool on the sprocket and am quite sure I'll find my wheel is perfectly aligned due to using the equal adjuster bolt method.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zZUkNk-I/AAAAAAAACzE/2Tca_eo_Q5c/s640/DSC05136-1.JPG

I sight down the tool like a gun sight and line up the chain with the pointer and this is what I see...
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zaO22H-I/AAAAAAAACzM/wUVfcqJFF6I/s640/DSC05137-1.JPG

holy crap, Batman!! That can't be right!! So I reposition myself and carefully resight down the alignment tool again and see this...
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zak7Z3jI/AAAAAAAACzU/7SbwyzrAlP0/s640/DSC05138-1.JPG

The end of the pointer is supposed to be sighting down the inner link of the right side of the chain, but as you can see, the pointer is pointing way to the right of the chain. "ugg," says the caveman... "chain not straight!" Which of course means my rear wheel is out of alignment. :( So much for using the adjuster bolt threads method as a guide.

So, how do you adjust the chain???
First remove the cotter pin holding the rear axle nut secure.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zbTDAa_I/AAAAAAAACzc/j4sWG9B8WJY/s640/DSC05139-1.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zdKPC-6I/AAAAAAAACzs/BT0MqecnRSU/s640/DSC05141-1.JPG


Then using a 24mm socket and a breaker bar on the nut and a 17mm wrench on the other end, loosen the axle nut. Don't take it off, just loosen it enough so it isn't touching the swing arm anymore.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zesErbuI/AAAAAAAACz8/-0KgN6ohBfU/s640/DSC05143-1.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zfdkoBII/AAAAAAAAC0E/MBZNVoQozS0/s640/DSC05144-1.JPG


Loosen the 12mm lock nut and then use the 14mm adjuster bolt to align the pointer so that it sights straight down the inner link of the chain.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zhVtMslI/AAAAAAAAC0c/BBhdlNgDmTw/s640/DSC05147-1.JPG


After some give and take on both side adjusters, this is the result that you see down the alignment tool.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zishX8KI/AAAAAAAAC0s/qXMviJ_Z8YY/s640/DSC05149-1.JPG
The pointer is showing it pointed straight down the inner link of the right hand side of the chain.

Be sure as you are adjusting the the adjuster bolts, that when you are done, you have at least 1" of play at the center section of the chain. In this case a bit more than 1" is better than less than 1". Any less than one inch can tighten up the chain during the suspension travel and put undo stress on your transmission output shaft and rear wheel bearings.

Measure for proper chain play right above where the kickstand end is located in this picture.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zYhjHVnI/AAAAAAAACy8/mTOOUtXkzB0/s640/DSC05135-1.JPG


Once you are satisfied with chain tension and the pointer sighting down the chain, re torque the rear axle nut to 72ft/lbs and reinsert the cotter pin. You're done.

Unfortunately for me, this did not get rid of the front end wobble, but it at least told me that the rear wheel misalignment is not the cause and I am now confident of my rear wheel alignment.

I highly recommend this tool. Runs about $25. It takes all the guesswork out of chain maintenance and rear wheel alignment. Cheap and easy to use... and unless you're planning on buying a motorcycle that runs without a chain, you'll always need one as long as you own a bike. It's found a permanent place in my toolbox. :thumbup:

So easy, even a caveman can do it! ugg!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/ 15/15_8_212.gif

Something we all must do on a regular basis and seems easy enough... even a caveman could do it. Well maybe, maybe not. Ugg.

Then using a 24mm socket and a breaker bar on the nut and a 17mm wrench on the other end, loosen the axle nut. Don't take it off, just loosen it enough so it isn't touching the swing arm anymore.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_geC920GCq38/SZ9zfdkoBII/AAAAAAAAC0E/MBZNVoQozS0/s640/DSC05144-1.JPG


So easy, even a caveman can do it! ugg!

So Ugg - I mean Kelly, I didn't know that Sears/Craftsman was around back in the caveman era?

That poor cotter pin :p It's showing its age!

I popped by Ace and just picked up a cheap hair pin clip.

http://www.qcsupply.com/ProductImages/40830LG.jpg

It stays put and doesn't wear out like cotter pins.

Kelly -

The mechanic that I take my 10R to (Alan at Sportbike Dynamics (http://www.sportbiketuning.com/)) isn't a fan of the motion pro tool. His point is that yes, using that tool you are definitely assuring that the chain is aligned correctly. But, you need to make an assumption that the rear sprocket and the front sprocket are exactly in line with each other on the bike. And in his experience, that's not always true to the millimeter. So you can't have everything straight at once (sprockets directly in line, and rear wheel exactly in line), and you have to pick one. In most cases, you err on the side of the rear wheel rather than the chain.

He recommends a tool like this:

786

Which can be built for less than $15. The best how-to for that on the web is actually at our friends the ninja250.org site right here (http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_I_adjust_chain/rear_wheel_alignment%3F). Not to make you even more OCD about your rear wheel alignment, but I bet if you had a tool like this and redid the procedure, you'd find that your wheel was closer to straight ahead originally when you lined the bolt threads up. But right now your chain is perfectly aligned. Don't mechanical things suck? ;)

/moved to 2nd-gen tech forum...

Alex,

I put it in the general section because doesn't the old gens have the same type of adjusters?

Also, it's not perfect (what is??) but I'm sure it's closer to aligned than it was.

how do you assure yours is aligned?

That poor cotter pin :p It's showing its age!

I popped by Ace and just picked up a cheap hair pin clip.

http://www.qcsupply.com/ProductImages/40830LG.jpg

It stays put and doesn't wear out like cotter pins.

When I had the cotter pin off, I was looking around for one of them in my odd parts cabinet, but couldn't find one. Around here, we call that a hitch pin clip. :D

I put it in the general section because doesn't the old gens have the same type of adjusters?

True, but it's a pretty techie topic and DIY threads of all types fit much better in there than in the general section. If 1st-gen folks are curious, they can peek into the 2nd-gen area and see what still applies. After all, those poor folks have little more than a link to an external site for their tech info. :)

how do you assure yours is aligned?

The bolt threads. With those in sync, the rear wheel has to be inline with the swingarm. Has nothing to do with the chain alignment, which may or may not match perfectly, and it's also making an assumption that the swingarm pivot is exactly perpendicular to the wheels. Also, you can double-check the wheel alignment using the string method (put the bike on a rear stand, get 20+ feet worth of fishing line, wrap it around a section of the rear tire/wheel with the bike in gear so the wheel doesn't move, pull the fishing line taut toward the front of the bike just touching both sides of the rear tire and almost touching both sides of the front tire. Tie a reasonably heavy tool (hammers work) to each end of the fishing line. From 10 ft in front of the bike, if you make the lines exactly parallel, the two lines should be equidistant from the sides of the front tire. If they're not, that means the rear wheel must be out of alignment with the front wheel.

In a perfect world, the wheels would be exactly in line and the chain would be exactly in line, and both of those would be in line with eachother. It's evidently not a perfect world with many bikes, and from what you saw today, it looks like our Ninjette is in that boat.

so, you've checked your ninjette with the string method?

I remember doing it with the 1st-gen Ninjette, and I've done it on the 10R (and R6) several times before trackdays, but to be honest I can't remember if I did it with our latest Ninjette yet. Doing it on the 1st-gen was when I first realized that those kawi-provided chain adjustment marks are useless.

I'll go out in the garage tomorrow and give it a shot, it really doesn't take that long.

Here's a link (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/string_align_motorcycle_wheels/index.html) on the Motorcyclist Mag website that describes the string method with some pics.

so, with the bikes that you have checked with the strings, how did they compare against the factory alignment marks/guides?

R6 marks were off by a good amount. 10R's marks are spot on. 1st-gen ninjette's marks were completely inaccurate (and variable!) due to the reasons we're all pretty familiar with. From what I remember my 12R's marks weren't far off, but I never tracked the bike so as long as it was close I wasn't terribly worried about it.

That's one of the advantages of a single-sided-swingarm. Doesn't matter if the rear wheel alignment is off even the slightest, as there isn't a thing you can do about it anyway so you don't stress about it. :p

So, wait, the tool insures that the chain is perpendicular to the sprocket. If the chain is straight, the only way the rear wheel would not be aligned at that point is if the front sprocket were offset to the rear sprocket. Why would a manufacture set a bike up with the front and rear sprockets in different planes? And if they did, wouldn't that either accelerate sprocket/chain wear or tire wear?

I'm having a hard time accepting your original argument against this method and that the wheel is now off. I'll check it though.

Check it and report back. I'll do the same. :)

It comes down to choosing reference points for what's most important to be straight. For a bike to track straight, those reference points seem to be the front tire and the rear tire. Nothing else matters, though it would be great if everything else was exactly in line as well. The string method will tell you right away if the wheels/tires are perfectly in line (or not).

You've seen the chain adjustment marks (or random number generators) that Kawi expects owners to use. You've seen the cush drive that Kawi specified for our bikes. With something that sloppy already in place, why would you be so convinced that the sprockets are perfectly in line?

At the end of all this, I don't think the world ends if the the rear wheel alignment isn't perfect. Perhaps there's slightly more chain wear. Perhaps the tire wear isn't as perfectly aligned as it might have been. And perhaps even the bike feels like it turns better in one direction, but for that to be the case the alignment would need to be *way* off, not just a smidge.

...because mechanically, if they were not, you would see side wear on the sprockets and chain or if they were in line, the rear wheel would be out of alignment and your tire would show abnormal wear patterns.

I don't agree. Yes, if the sprockets are way out of plane, there would be noticeable side wear. But there's a large gray area between way out of plane, and perfectly in line. At some point in between there, the wear isn't that noticeable compared to any normal sprocket/chain wear.

If you talk to the chain companies, they think the most important thing to maximize chain life is to align the sprockets. Makes sense. If you talk to mechanics, at least the ones that prep sportbikes for handling and performance, they'll tell you that front/rear tire/wheel alignment is most important. Also makes sense.

Found a decent link that goes into all of this in some detail on the SV site right here (http://www.suzukisv1000.com/faq/alignment.htm).

Alex, shouldn't this be in the general section? It affects all our bikes, never mind it was done on a new gen.

I moved it because even though it affect both 1st and 2nd gen, it was a reasonable technical issue so I figured it fit better in a technical forum. But it's your thread, and if you feel that strongly about it I'm happy to move it back to general.

/thread moved back :thumbup:

Alex... Thanks.

I can see why you might have moved it initially, if it were an open and closed discussion, but based on what you and I are now discussing, I think many would benefit from the info. Plus, if the pregens adjusters are the same way, they will get a lot out of this instead of it buried in the 08/09 tech section.

I'll do some measuring tomorrow to try and confirm if mine is indeed set correctly or not.

if it were an open and closed discussion

But it is an open and closed discussion. You just haven't arrived at the appropriate conclusion yet. :nahnahnah: :rotflmao: :boink: :eyebrows:

just measure yer' damn bike!! kids!!!

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=63&pictureid=664

Alrighty, I went out to the garage this afternoon and did some measuring. Setting up the string method is for the most part a one-person job. Put the bike up on a rear stand, put the bike in gear, wrap some string a couple times around the rear wheel, pull it forward so you know you have enough length in front of the bike, and tie some tools to each end. Once it's generally set up, it makes sense to duct tape the string at the back wheel, just so it stays in place as you're moving it around from the front.

Now go call a helper. Have the helper sit/stand near the rear wheel, while you're a couple feet in front of the bike. Pull the string taut, using the tool, and pull it away from the bike. Then slowly move it closer to the bike until your helper lets you know when the string is just touching the rear tire in two points (the back of the rear tire and the front). At that point the string is exactly in line with that side of the rear tire. Go to the other side of the bike and do the same thing.

http://aciurczak.smugmug.com/photos/478777014_yJsxB-L.jpg

http://aciurczak.smugmug.com/photos/478777540_kVymx-L.jpg

http://aciurczak.smugmug.com/photos/478777974_uLGqK-L.jpg

Now, have your helper stand in front of the bike while you can move the handlebars. Make sure that the front wheel is exactly parallel to the strings that are now on both sides of it. Hard to do with one person, but possible.

And you're done! All you need to do to confirm that the wheels are in alignment is see if the string on both sides of the front tire is equidistant from that tire. If there is more space on one side, that means the rear wheel is not in line with the front wheel, and an adjustment is necessary. But, here's the kicker.... If you've set up your alignment by measuring the bolt threads, all this string method will tell you is confirmation that your bike is in alignment. Which mine did, just about as close as can be. If you count your bolt threads and they are different from one side to the other, this string method will confirm that the wheels are no longer in line, unless your swingarm pivot is no longer in line with the bike, and if that's the case it's time for a new bike anyway. :D

http://aciurczak.smugmug.com/photos/478778221_c84E2-L.jpg

http://aciurczak.smugmug.com/photos/478777369_eADZJ-L.jpg

I wouldn't recommend the Motion Pro alignment tool unless one is prioritizing chain life over handling. :2cents: String is cheap, and counting bolt threads is free.

Alex, Is there any value in removing the front sprocket guard and chain guard then using a metal straight edge across the sprockets? When that is all aligned, I count the threads. The hash marks on my swing arms are way off.

Alex, IMO, there wouldn't be much value in that. There's nothing you're likely to adjust on the bike to bring the sprockets in line if they happen to be out of line, so I'm not sure what the aim would be to try and find out exactly how perpendicular the sprockets are. (unless you'd intend to buy sprockets from a different manufacturer that may be fractionally wider, or perhaps constructed in some way that would make them sit closer or further from the bike's centerline, or you use additional shims to try and get them aligned).

I did check the sprocket alignment using a Stainless straight edge. I ran it across the front sprocket and it was very slightly out of line with the rear. I then adjusted the rear using the 12mm and 14mm screws on the swingarms. I was able to align them perfectly. The screws were then marked with nail polish as a reference. Chain tension was also adjusted. The bike ran quieter and the front end oscillations ceased. I will set up your string method to double check what I did. I do have two 7`long pieces of aluminum channel stock that is four inches wide. I could drill into this stock and make clamps out of the stock that would fit on the rear tyre. I would then have my parallels to sight the front tyre. Will have to do some engineering on that. It would certainly be a great alignment tool.

Sounds like that aluminum would make for a great alignment tool. Let us know your results! :)

Please don't misunderstand my thoughts above, I have nothing against perfectly aligned sprockets, and if it's possible, sounds like a great way to maximize chain life, lower noise, and all of those other good things. It's just that if your sprockets are aligned but your wheels aren't, and you may have to choose between the two, IMO the wheels are more important than the sprockets, that's all. If you can get them both (both wheels and both sprockets) to all align at the same time, poifect! :thumbup:

Alex, I most definitely agree. Back in the days of my Norton, things were not that complicated. These new machines present quite a challenge--so I need to get my knowledge up to date and learn from you young folks. I have decided to enroll in a sport bike riding school. These new machines handle too nicely to not be fully appreciated. I thought that my Norton was the penultimate cafe racer until I got the Ninjette. On the twisties, the Ninjette would embarass the Norton big time. My real skills are in bicycles. I run a bike shop and build custom racing machines. I also compete with the bikes I build. Because of my age, I don`t set the world on fire when I compete, but the young guys kick butt with the bikes I build. Sprocket alignment is paramount in a good racing bicycle. The amount of friction created by misaligned sprockets is incredible and can lose a race in a heartbeat. I thought the same applied to MC`s. The chains on my bikes are spotless and they don`t make a sound. On my Ninjette, the chain is also spotless. Prior to lubing it with Maxxima Chain Lube, it is thoroughly cleaned with kerosene and then wiped clean. A hair dryer is used to warm the chain up and then the chain lube is applied. The hair dryer is ten used again to make sure the lube gets in all the right places--one rotates the wheel all the time. You do this for about 15 min. The next morning you wipe the chain dry with a paper towel. I do the same thing on my bikes but use Pro Road by Finish Line as a lube. This is a Teflon Lube. Last year my bikes finished in the top three in all the races in Maine. I am a bit OC when it comes to bicycles. Hopefully I will get good at setting up motorcycles as well. Time will tell. We do have a super motorcycle mechanic in town. Maybe he will take me as an apprentice provided that I don`t set up a competitive shop.

Alex,

LOL... I did exactly as you did this afternoon. Made sure to draw the string in carefully multiple times to check that the string just barely touched the front edge of the rear wheel and measured the clearance on both sides of the front wheel. Without fail, I got the same, repeated results... my rear wheel was out of alignment. :(

I turned in the right rear adjuster a flat at a time to see how much it would affect the results at the front. Nada...

So I cranked the right rear adjuster in the same amount as the left side and measured. The front wheel clearance became equal on both sides. Not exactly the same (w/in 1/16" of a inch, though), but close enough for me and to verify that the rear adjuster bolts, if adjusted equally on both sides, results in a very closely aligned rear wheel.

See, what was I telling you that you wouldn't listen?? :D

:thumbup: Glad to hear it!

:thumbup: Glad to hear it!

Thanks for your input. As hard as it might be to believe it, I appreciate it. :)

As I do yours. ;)

Sorry, have not ridden the bike, but I would guess not. The string realignment essentially put the rear wheel back to the same position it was in before the Motion Pro tool alignment.

I will post definitive results once I get to jump on the bike. :D

I used the string method today and got it to measure within a 1/16" difference between either side of the front tire. I'm glad I checked it because it started WAY out of wack with the left string almost touching the front tire and the right string nowhere near it. FYI a Kawasaki dealer was the last place to do an alignment, or at least attempt to do it, and the castle nut broke free WAY to easy for them to have properly torqued it to spec. My cotter pin was still in place but that thing was barely tight. Anyway, when I was done I also took some advice from Vex and used a hitch pin on the castle nut.

OMG what do they use to tighten the axle nut?!?! super glue and red loctite?!?! I tried with everything so I could adjust the chain. Wouldn't budge... then I got my bro-in-law to help out with holding the other side. Pretty much bottomed out the shocks and still wouldn't loosen up :banghead:

Any tips? I've sprayed it with wd40 and hoping to try again tomorrow...

Use a wrench that has a long momentum arm.

Did you remove the cotter pin?

thanks for the tips and yes, the cotter pin is removed and I'm turning counter-clockwise :rolleyes: I only tried with the stock tool and extender in the tool kit and a standard socket wrench on the other side, so I'll give the pipe idea a go if it still doesn't work. I just couldn't imagine that 2 of us still couldn't make it budge

All done :thumbup:. Seems the wd40 loosened something up. But jeebus the front axle was tight too!

and :bump2: for people with new bikes to check their chains. I was checking it for awhile thinking it would be the same as the 06 specs. Then realized the 09 manual asks for totally different chain measurements. Now at 1200kms, she was probably off for a little while :o

kkim, you have changed your front sproket correct? The new sprocket might be shimmed out to far. Now that you have the rear wheel aligned by the string method try removing a shim on the front sprocket and check it again with the Motion Pro tool.
Ken

kkim, you have changed your front sproket correct? The new sprocket might be shimmed out to far. Now that you have the rear wheel aligned by the string method try removing a shim on the front sprocket and check it again with the Motion Pro tool.
Ken

nope... still have the stock sprockets on the bike. :o

Here is a Pic of my hitch pin (hairpin cotter pin) on my bike, in place of the stock cotter pin! my pins about 1.5" in length the size on package says its for 3/8-1/2".

Its 2pcs, cost 98 cents! :thumbup: (other one is a spare, or use for front axle wheel nut later on.)

Great DIY KKim! Excellent pic's.

Oh and for your guys pleasure....
heres a Pic of a newly bought Item i picked up! (i got mine,was the last one on self) @ Magic Racing here in shelby twp, Mi. for $11.65 :thumbup:

Its the GRUNGE BRUSH! For Cleaning your chains up before putting on your Lube!

It works great, i recomend it!

a thought. Use Simple Green to clean chain? BIO-safe... it cant hurt the O-rings... can it?

Dave - where did you get the grunge brush?

Dave - where did you get the grunge brush?

http://www.magicracing.com/The-Grunge-Brush_p_4036.html

this is a LOCAL place for me to ride too! But this is where i bought mine 2 weeks ago. :thumbup:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4727&d=1256685336

Under $4 at Harbor Freight.

Note that it says that it's "for ... wheel alignment"

Dave - where did you get the grunge brush?

I found mine at a dealer for ~$15 with a little bottle of cleaner, $11 without. I used it vigorously but my chain is still clogged with dark-colored crap (Motul chain lube). I found a huge blob in my lower-left fairing where it dripped from under the front sprocket. It was surprisingly firm for grease/lube... almost like a waxy puddy. I figure I'll use it before my next few lubes and see if it starts to make a difference.

Maybe I'm using it wrong, but the grunge brush I have (looks like the same one) didn't do a very good job cleaning the chain, despite going over it with a lot of repetition and solvent. It did a fantastic job of getting everything within 3' of the chain dirty though.

Maybe I'm using it wrong, but the grunge brush I have (looks like the same one) didn't do a very good job cleaning the chain, despite going over it with a lot of repetition and solvent. It did a fantastic job of getting everything within 3' of the chain dirty though.

You are right. You're doing it wrong. If your chain isn't getting clean you must be either not following the instructions, a complete idiot (which I vote for), completely drunk (which I am), or you're using a tooth brush and a high pressure hose. It isn't that hard to clean your chain. Actually, it isn't even that important to clean your chain. If it is lubricated it is more important that clean (and adjusted correctly, but if you can't clean it you probable can't adjust it either.

Sorry for being honest (or intoxicated) but not both.

You are right. You're doing it wrong. If your chain isn't getting clean you must be either not following the instructions, a complete idiot (which I vote for), completely drunk (which I am), or you're using a tooth brush and a high pressure hose. It isn't that hard to clean your chain. Actually, it isn't even that important to clean your chain. If it is lubricated it is more important that clean (and adjusted correctly, but if you can't clean it you probable can't adjust it either.

Sorry for being honest (or intoxicated) but not both.

Two against one, I vote for none of the above. :) It's probably that we are using wax-based lubes and the biodegradable oil solvent stuff doesn't work on it.

Two against one, I vote for none of the above. :) It's probably that we are using wax-based lubes and the biodegradable oil solvent stuff doesn't work on it.

Czroe was right. The solvent they sent with the grunge brush did just about nothin' to my chain wax (Royal Purple), even at full concentration. Kerosene took the old lube/wax right off with a truly frightening amount of crud and the brush worked wonderfully removing even more.

Never use the harbor freight version of the motion pro alignment tool, they dont sit square on the sprocket and the rod is also not square to the un-square cut of the part that sits against the sprocket anyways.

Laser alignment tool

http://www.jpcycles.com/product/910-440?utm_source=googleproducts&utm_medium=cse

They make a dot one and a line one but check this out

Harbor Freight

http://www.harborfreight.com/laser-marker-93242.html

5 bucks shoots a laser line just line it up on the back links and see if it stays on the same links all the way to the front and your straight.....even china harbor freight cant make the laser shoot crooked.

But as demonstrated multiple times within this same thread, getting perfect chain alignment is not the same thing as getting wheel alignment. More importantly, the latter is a heck of alot more important than the former anyway.

Never use the harbor freight version of the motion pro alignment tool, they dont sit square on the sprocket and the rod is also not square to the un-square cut of the part that sits against the sprocket anyways.

Laser alignment tool

http://www.jpcycles.com/product/910-440?utm_source=googleproducts&utm_medium=cse

They make a dot one and a line one but check this out

Harbor Freight

http://www.harborfreight.com/laser-marker-93242.html

5 bucks shoots a laser line just line it up on the back links and see if it stays on the same links all the way to the front and your straight.....even china harbor freight cant make the laser shoot crooked.

The Harbor Freight one I got looks IDENTICAL to kkim's Motion Pro unit, but the Motion Pro one I saw at Cycle Gear today was different. Mine seems to line up just fine. Also, it was on clearance when I bought mine over a year ago so I doubt many will still be able to find it.

But as demonstrated multiple times within this same thread, getting perfect chain alignment is not the same thing as getting wheel alignment. More importantly, the latter is a heck of alot more important than the former anyway.

I wonder if the incongruity between chain and tire alignment is due to unshimmed pre-gen counter-sprockets (most fitment guides say that they fit the current-gen but do not mention shims)?

I wonder if the incongruity between chain and tire alignment is due to unshimmed pre-gen counter-sprockets (most fitment guides say that they fit the current-gen but do not mention shims)?

Nope, I have stock sprockets on my bike.

Nope, I have stock sprockets on my bike.

I don't know if that's something that gets done at the factory or during setup after un-crating at the dealer, but is there any chance a dealer could have put it on backwards originally? I remember there being a lot of discussion about the proper orientation of JT sprockets with conflicting answers in different threads.

Sprockets are on in the crate from the factory. Unlikely they are installed improperly, but I guess anything's possible. :idunno:

possible a dumb question but i'm going to ask it anyway....

On the chain side of the swingarm we have a 17mm, on the brake side we have 24mm. Which of these is valid

* Torque 17mm and 24mm to 72 lbs/ft
* Tighten 17mm and Torque 24mm to 72 lbs/ft
* Tighten 24mm and Torque 17mm to 72 lbs/ft

The reason I ask is I have a 17mm socket for my torque wrench, and a 24mm standard socket wrench. So I can do the 3rd option at the moment or wait until my 24mm 3/8" comes in from ebay next week.

Off to adjust chain, count bolt threads and await and answer. Thanks in advance ;)

you should torque the nut and not the bolt, is what I've always been told, but I don't see why you can't torque the 17mm bolt head side. as long as you use a cotter pin, the nut can't back out even if your torque value is off by torquing the bolt instead of the nut. It would be close, I'd bet. ;)

you should torque the nut and not the bolt, is what I've always been told, but I don't see why you can't torque the 17mm bolt head side. as long as you use a cotter pin, the nut can't back out even if your torque value is off by torquing the bolt instead of the nut. It would be close, I'd bet. ;)

:thumbup:

You should be fine torquing the bolt. Would possibly make ~1lb difference if any.

need... brainz... zombie thread has risen from the grave.


probably closer to 10-15ish ft/lbs difference torquing the bolt vs the nut.

yeah I apologize, I forgot to see the date. I'm sorry but I don't see how there would be that much of a difference. Why or how did you come to that conclusion? Essentially you would be doing the same thing. If the bolt was welded to the swing arm would that make a difference?

Just made my own tool like the one in that link.

I used plastic conduit as it was a ton cheaper! Total cost is around $8 at Lowes. :cool:

18329

My rear wheel was grossly misaligned and I only found out after I crashed.

Before the crash, the bike would always want to go sideways every time I locked up the rear tire. I have since corrected the misalignment and it doesn't go sideways any more. New tires too!

I crashed when a cager did an abrupt u-turn in front of me while I was going 80+kph, in the rain. I braked hard and the bike went sideways then went under. My collar bone was broken from the impact with his front tire and my head ended up right in front of the wheel.

Misalignment is truly bad because it makes the bike run skewed to your actual direction of travel. Since the weight distribution will also be off (left vs right) relative to your direction, you are almost guaranteed that the bike will go sideways once the rear wheel slips...... :eek:

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread.

Found a vid.... Vids help :P

RBxK-OQ--fg

Just made my own tool like the one in that link.

I used plastic conduit as it was a ton cheaper! Total cost is around $8 at Lowes. :cool:

18329


This tool is a little more like $5-6 dollars, which is a little less than a pack of cigarettes right now. Works awesome. Less tedious than the string method. Thanks Diablos991!

I thought I should mention that the rear sprocket carrier hub is "floating" until you tighten down the axel, which is usually AFTER you've made all your adjustments. This is probably why the chain always seems to tighten after you've finished adjusting and aligning and torque everything down (annoying, isn't it?). It's difficult to get it all just right. This also means that the chain alignment tool is completely useless while the wheel is loosened for adjustment and can only check chain/sprocket alignment correctly after you've locked it all down.

The string method is too tedious for regular maintenance, the thread method is unproven, the alignment marks are way off, and the adjustable bar tool just seems like the best all-around solution.

Just made my own tool like the one in that link.

I used plastic conduit as it was a ton cheaper! Total cost is around $8 at Lowes. :cool:

18329

Parts list? What link? I know there's a DIY on ninja250.org but was it the same one?

Parts list? What link? I know there's a DIY on ninja250.org but was it the same one?

Parts list is pretty much the same as ninja 250.org.
I used PVC instead since it was cheaper.

I am curious, I will probably be building one of these tools today but unless the hangar bolts are a lot bigger than they look, is there enough clearance to use this on the exhaust side?

Anyone have another DIY? The image links are shot on this one.

I tried to do this yesterday and bent one of the chain adjusters. I think an overview of what exactly to do might help me avoid doing that again :).

I didn't want to start a new wheel alignment thread since this thread seems to have good info already. I'm stumped!

I purchased this bike used with just under 2,000 miles a few months ago. The previous owner looks like he didn't touch the rear wheel or chain. Stock IRC is still currently on the bike. I will be changing those out as soon as the garage gets a little warmer.

I was just messing around today and did the string test for the wheel alignment.

Here's what I did (let me know if you see an issue with the method I'm using):

- Tied a piece of string and wrapped it around the rear wheel/tire. Used tape to set the string in place.

- Rotated the rear tire downwards so that the string can reach the front tire without any interference from the rotors/sprocket/kickstand/fairings/fork, etc.

- I tied the string to two hammers for the front so it's nice and tight.

- I positioned the hammers (string) so that it just barely comes in contact with two points of the rear tire (I did this for both sides).

- I then adjusted the steering so that the front wheel is parallel to the two strings next to it.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/_cadd_/Misc1/IMG_20150104_144828Medium.jpg

Right side of the bike (looking from front to back):
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/_cadd_/Misc1/IMG_20150104_145310Medium.jpg

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/_cadd_/Misc1/IMG_20150104_144606Medium.jpg



Left side of the bike (looking from front to back):
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/_cadd_/Misc1/IMG_20150104_145259Medium.jpg

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/_cadd_/Misc1/IMG_20150104_144637Medium.jpg

And from me just eyeballing the chain, it looks aligned:
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/_cadd_/Misc1/IMG_20150104_145023Medium.jpg



What does this tell you?

What does this tell you?

You need to realign the rear wheel. Count the threads as outlined in the previous posts.

I didn't want to start a new wheel alignment thread since this thread seems to have good info already. I'm stumped!

I purchased this bike used with just under 2,000 miles a few months ago. The previous owner looks like he didn't touch the rear wheel or chain. Stock IRC is still currently on the bike. I will be changing those out as soon as the garage gets a little warmer.

I was just messing around today and did the string test for the wheel alignment.

Here's what I did (let me know if you see an issue with the method I'm using):

- Tied a piece of string and wrapped it around the rear wheel/tire. Used tape to set the string in place.

- Rotated the rear tire downwards so that the string can reach the front tire without any interference from the rotors/sprocket/kickstand/fairings/fork, etc.

- I tied the string to two hammers for the front so it's nice and tight.

- I positioned the hammers (string) so that it just barely comes in contact with two points of the rear tire (I did this for both sides).

- I then adjusted the steering so that the front wheel is parallel to the two strings next to it.

What does this tell you?

Maybe you could find a possible solution in reading the following links:
Part 1 - http://rg500delta.com/RG500_chassis_files/chassis%20alignment%20part1.pdf
Part 2 - http://rg500delta.com/RG500_chassis_files/chassis%20alignment%20part2.pdf

But also you should know that, from what I'd read in many german forums, it seems to be normal for all brands that the alignment from the front to the rear wheel is off by up to 15 mm.

And my experience with my 2-fiddy, after measuring the rear wheel, is that the marks on the swing arm are off by 2 mm, what means that the right side has to be adjusted 2 mm more back than the left to have the wheel aligned with the swing arm.
But also please keep in mind that I have an aftermarket swing arm from aluminum, so maybe this must not be valid for the oem.
And looking to my chain with a laser tool (SE-CAT) shows that my chain is absolute straight.
Link Laser Tool - http://www.profi-products.de/en/downloads/cat_uebersicht.pdf