Thanks to KKim's post, I was fortunate enough to have my 2007 Ninja 250r chosen for R&D for Area-P's upcoming 2-in-1 exhaust system for the pre-08 Ninja 250.

Here are some preliminary details:
1. The exhaust will be similar to the 2008+ Ninja 250 exhaust in that it is a 2-in-1 style. This means that the 2007-earlier models will lose the dual exhaust.

2. There will be an optional (included) stopper for the center stand.

3. The center stand on the left side of the bike will protrude after removal of the left side exhaust manifold. So, removal of the center stand may be a preferred option.

4. The exhaust will be available in two lengths. A longer pipe that is more quiet and a shorter, but louder, version. Performance on both will be nearly identical.

5. It should be available in carbon fiber and stainless steel.

6. A bracket that replaces the rear footpeg bracket will be made available (for those who wish to remove the factory passanger brakets).

7. The Area-P system will replace the stock dual-exhaust system and, optionally, the center stand and rear pegs/brackets. This will result in some significant weight savings.

8. If sitting on the bike, the new 2007 and earlier Area-P exhaust will exit from the right side of the bike, similar to the 2008 Ninja 250 exhaust.


Why is Area-P building an exhaust for the 2007 and earlier Ninja 250's? (glad you asked)

Simply put: demand.

Due to the reputation of performance and quality of Area-P's 2008+ Ninja 250 exhaust, owners of pre-08 Ninja's wanted a similar system for their bikes. So, you let your voices be heard and contacted Area-P in serious numbers. Area-P responded to the demand by initiating research and development of a potentially exciting new exhaust.


My personal experience with Area-P:

This is my Area-P story. There are many like it, but this one is mine. :)

I woke up on Saturday morning (Feb. 21, 2009) and had my bike delivered to Area-P's facilities in Anaheim, California.

Upon arrival, I was met with Mr. Kerry Bryant, the founder of Area-P and R&D chief. My initial impression was that Kerry is approachable, warm and friendly. He is the kind of guy you want to have a beer with, but also the kind of guy that has an uncompromising attention to performance and detail. And I truly mean uncompromising.

I expected to drop off the bike and take off. Plans changed. Kerry's passion for motorcycle performance was contagious and we ended up having an incredible discussion on Ninja's, Ducati's as well as company philosophies.

In the world of manufacturing and performance, people like Kerry are a treasured rarity.

Unbeknownst to me, Area-P researches and develops exhaust systems for Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki and they also manufacture them. They are the source for exhaust expertise and official exhaust testing for all of the major motorcycle manufacturers as well as motorcycle magazines!

This level of expertise takes decades to develop and is a true logistical feat, especially when you factor in the complex science of exhaust dynamics.

Area-P now produces its own brand and the performance of their exhaust systems are currently unmatched. To industry insiders, Area-P is well known as the exhaust experts and go-to company for exhaust development, testing and production.

To people like me, Area-P is a unique company whose products are supported by data and facts. As many of you probably know, this is refreshing in the world of performance mods since most companies are less-than-honest about performance gains.

To sum up, my first trip to Area-P was very insightful and a sincere pleasure. I will continue to post updates on the new pre-08 exhaust project in this thread to keep all those in line to purchase fully updated.

Those of us with the 2007 and earlier generation Ninja's are fortunate that Area-P is developing this exhaust. The potential benefits are incredible and I personally can't wait to get my hands on the new system.


Here is Area-P's information:

www.areapnolimits.com

Area-P
1240 Simon Circle
Anaheim, CA 92806
714-630-2386

H-

Glad to hear it was your bike that was selected.:thumbup: I know only good things will come of the meeting between you and Kerry. He is a class act from start to finish.

Design sounds a bit more involved than the 08/09 bikes, but rest assured the end product will be well detailed and thought out with a performance boost to boot. :)

I'll eagerly be awaiting updates on the system as they become available.





Oh, komohana..... :D

Congratulations. Can't wait to read your reports! :thumbup:

@KKim: Thank you! I look forward to receiving the updates and posting them here. The entire process will take about 2-3 weeks, so there should be some good updates.

@g21-30: I appreciate that. The attention to actual performance makes the data exciting. If you or anyone else has questions, I'd be happy to post answers. :)

Here is update #1:

With the first prototype system, we have a large increase in low end power/rpm. This is primarily because we are able to adjust the fuel screw mixture and allow more fuel into the charge.

The mid range and top end A/F is too lean for a determination of power potential of the initial prototype (a completely common occurrence in the R&D phase). So we will remove the carbs, do a slide hole mod, install adjustable needles, and bigger main jets to do further runs. We may also remove the snorkel assembly from the air box to allow more airflow. Again, all to take advantage of the new system. Until we do these changes of adding more fuel & air, we cannot determine if the design direction of the initial prototype is what we want.

Initial weight savings is around 12 lbs. If the center stand is removed, it will probably be 3 or so pounds more. We have prototyped a bracket that will allow the center stand to be retained. Most people will remove it.

We are still on track to be completed by the end of next week (13th). We have built two other prototypes to test with as well, depending on how this initial prototype ends up working after the Jet Kit is installed and such.

End of update.

I've read of the snorkel removal with the pregens. Seems there is some issue with securing the basket that holds the filter element (foam) once the snorkel assembly is removed? It's an easy fix... would like to know what the fix is, though. Also, I believe K&N makes a drop in replacement filter which eliminates that basket altogether, if I am remembering correctly.


sounds like fun. :)

I look foward to more reports. I have been waiting quite a while for someone to come out with a quality full exhaust for my 05.

Does Area P recomend keeping the filter box or removing it and intalling filter pods?

Not too happy about the center stand looking out of place.

Also not too happy about our bikes not getting too much gain out of a 500$+ exhaust. :(

Here are more details for everyone :)

From Area-P's Kerry Bryant:

We will have to install a Jet kit and look at air box mods to take full advantage of the design based on our A/F graphs. We should have the Jet kit on Monday (the needle taper and main jet sizes are different than what we have/use for the '08-09 model). When doing initial baseline testing on a new system, you mostly focus on A/F curves. We do this simply because - if these curves are not within (or kept within) specs, you will never be able to evaluate if your prototype is correctly designed.


Anyway, the mid range and top end A/F is too lean for a determination of power potential of the initial prototype (a completely common occurrence in the R&D phase). So we will remove the carbs, do a slide hole mod, install adjustable needles, and bigger main jets to do further runs. We may also remove the snorkel assembly from the air box to allow more airflow. Again, all to take advantage of the new system. Until we do these changes of adding more fuel & air, we cannot determine if the design direction of the initial prototype is what we want.

End of info.


Let me know if you have any specific questions and I would be happy to get some answers.

I do know that the center stand and exhaust weight savings will be close to 15lbs or more. That is serious weight reduction.

Also, the left side of the bike will look much cleaner.

As far as horsepower, I am hoping for around 7hp's increase. If you had to have a company design the finest flowing exhaust, you would be hard pressed to take your bike to anywhere other than Area-P. They research, design and manufacture for all of the big four Japanese motorcycles as well as many/most aftermarket exhausts.

With their own brand (Area-P), they are focused on pure performance. They use the finest carbon fibers and metals and the finish is second to none. That is probably the reason why they are the trusted private label exhaust manufacturer.

Just look at the performance of the 2008+ exhaust compared to all other aftermarket systems. Area-P clearly dominates.

7hp hm? Since the bike comes with what, under 50hp stock? Guess that's a great gain..


I would love to keep my center stand though.

Not too happy about the center stand looking out of place.

Also not too happy about our bikes not getting too much gain out of a 500$+ exhaust. :(

On the contrary, they are in the process of getting a baseline measurement and initial testing shows significant improvements in performance. This is not including the serious weight savings.

Two in one systems flow much better. The aim of the product is to increase performance, so sometimes there will be a compromise. You can keep the centerstand, but the portion of the stand that is used to engage the centerstand will protrude.

Most bikes (including the 2008+ Ninja 250r) do not have a centerstand and many bike owners remove theirs. So, although a few may view this as a disadvantage, I see removal as a benefit.

7hp hm? Since the bike comes with what, under 50hp stock? Guess that's a great gain..

I think that stock is around 23hp, so 7hp's (if achieved) would be significant.

But, for me, the appearance, weight loss and, most importantly, sound is part of the reason to upgrade.

Stock on the first gens is 26-27 hp at the rear wheel. There isn't an exhaust on the planet that will give you 33 hp at the rear wheel, without significant other mods. I expect the bike to perform better, I expect it to sound better, I expect it to look better, and I even expect it to handle better due to the weight savings. But 7 hp isn't a realistic goal. To get 35/36 hp out of the 1st-gen motors requires thousands of dollars of engine work (new cams, pistons, valves, shaved head, in addition to the intake/exhaust mods spoken of in this thread). I'd be very happy with a 10% gain across the board, which is still on the high end of what most exhaust upgrades can promise.

Thanks for posting up the results so far, and can't wait to see (and hear!) the final product...

Stock on the first gens is 26-27 hp at the rear wheel. There isn't an exhaust on the planet that will give you 33 hp at the rear wheel, without significant other mods. I expect the bike to perform better, I expect it to sound better, I expect it to look better, and I even expect it to handle better due to the weight savings. But 7 hp isn't a realistic goal. To get 35/36 hp out of the 1st-gen motors requires thousands of dollars of engine work (new cams, pistons, valves, shaved head, in addition to the intake/exhaust mods spoken of in this thread). I'd be very happy with a 10% gain across the board, which is still on the high end of what most exhaust upgrades can promise.

Thanks for posting up the results so far, and can't wait to see (and hear!) the final product...

Agreed. My 7hp hope is simply an (overly)optimistic hope and not based on any evidence to date. :)

I've read of the snorkel removal with the pregens. Seems there is some issue with securing the basket that holds the filter element (foam) once the snorkel assembly is removed? It's an easy fix... would like to know what the fix is, though. Also, I believe K&N makes a drop in replacement filter which eliminates that basket altogether, if I am remembering correctly.


sounds like fun. :)

Hopefully I'll have more answers in a week or so, friend. :)

I can't wait to see the final version/numbers. :)

Please post pics when you get it back!! :photo:

why does everything have to be in a right hander's world? If the center stand thingie is protruding on the left side put the dang pipe on the left... Protrusion solved... :D

(I am sure there are legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING having to be in a right handers world but really, seriously... Right isn't always the best. :D )

why does everything have to be in a right hander's world? If the center stand thingie is protruding on the left side put the dang pipe on the left... Protrusion solved... :D

(I am sure there are legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING having to be in a right handers world but really, seriously... Right isn't always the best. :D )

Wrong.

Right is right. :)

why does everything have to be in a right hander's world? If the center stand thingie is protruding on the left side put the dang pipe on the left... Protrusion solved... :D

(I am sure there are legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING having to be in a right handers world but really, seriously... Right isn't always the best. :D )


I like your thinking. Sometimes you have to think outside the box and go in a different direction.

why does everything have to be in a right hander's world? If the center stand thingie is protruding on the left side put the dang pipe on the left... Protrusion solved... :D

(I am sure there are legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING having to be in a right handers world but really, seriously... Right isn't always the best. :D )

In the case of the 2007 and earlier bikes, you have a valid point. Placing the exhaust on the left side would solve the protrusion issue, but I am not sure how it would affect the right side of the bike's aesthetics.

Tradition and what people expect plays a huge role in design, so I imagine that the design of this exhaust is also within that paradigm.


@jpnfrk:

I will certainly post before and after pictures. I just have to figure out how to get the pictures out of my camera phone.

I personally can't wait to see the actual performance numbers myself. Area-P is very good at being transparent, so they will be happy to share this data with the public. And, if not, I'll post it anyway...HAHA!

Purspeed,
If you can please post a sound bite as well.

Purspeed,
If you can please post a sound bite as well.

I've never posted video before, but I do have video of my bike with stock everything (with sound and all).

I'll probably get one of you guys to help me upload it.

I figure that I will get my bike back by next weekend, so I'll take video and pics and do a detailed write up for everyone.

As promised, here is another update I received from Kerry Bryant from Area-P. I have attached (2) images that I received from Kerry that show the air pods and bracket for the battery to optimize the efficiency of the engine.

Let me know if anyone has any questions and I'll do my best to answer them. :)

Area-P:
"We are finishing up testing the 3rd and final prototype tomorrow. We will be testing this setup with the Stage 3 Dynojet kit, Uni-Pod air filters, and mini-crank case breather element installed. So essentially, we have removed the entire air box assembly. The OEM air box weighs about 3 lbs, so we've saved more weight there as well. On the older model EX250, it responds a little better with the Uni-filters and/or individual pods.

The OEM air box also houses the battery. So we have fabricated a new aluminum battery box. Pictures are attached.

After final testing tomorrow and/or Friday, we'll wrap the project up. I really don't want to quote any hard figures until we have analyzed all the data. Anything else is premature until all testing is complete."

~ End of the friendly update.

Holy clean install, Batman!! :eek:

H- you've got a winner on your hands. :)

Any ideas on exact prices? Also, I look forward to seeing what the exhaust itself looks like. Gotta say, for the ones available for us older design ninjettes, 2bros looks the best, but I've been hearing from a lot of places (this site included) that 2bros is waaay too loud. I like the quiet core idea but in my mind it also depends on how it looks. As to the performance, I agree with the fact that a 10% gain would be amazing. All I'm really looking for performance-wise from whichever exhaust I get is noticably better throttle response and a sound a little deeper than my little lawn mower on steroids! =]

Purspeed,
Please ask them if they prefer Uni-Pod brand pod filters or if if K & N pod filters are ok to install.

Thanks.

Purspeed,
Please ask them if they prefer Uni-Pod brand pod filters or if if K & N pod filters are ok to install.

Thanks.

In some applications we prefer the K&N or BMC elements which are excellent products and will likely last much longer than a foam style filter. You can't go wrong with any of them. But in this particular application we prefer the Uni-Pods for many reasons:

They offer full omni-directional intake (no end cap like K&N). Since these filters are so small (basically 4" long), "volume" is very important. The 250 needs all the intake volume, for the carb size, that it can get. The K&N style filter may offer more "flow", but that also means they can be more porous and let more particulates in if not kept serviced (especially when not using the added protection of an airbox). Being a foam element, they are very easy to clean and oil (just like a dirt bike air filter) and servicing them is normally much cheaper. Even when the oil begins to disapate over time and/or starts to clog, the foam filter protects and flows very well. Best of all, the Uni-Pod/filter normally costs much less.

Thanks Kerry.

@ Verus: Pricing should be similar to the pre-Gen models, but we are awaiting word on whether it will include an airbox/battery box mod that will allow easy install of airpod filters. The price will include the center stand stop for those who wish to keep the center stand.


@RCuriel: I hope that Kerry was able to answer your question and let me know if you have any others. :)

In terms of sound, I believe there will possibly be (3) versions similar to the pre-Gen models; a larger, quieter model, and a smaller carbon and stainless model.

Gains should be at the very least 10%-15% fairly linear.

Kerry Bryant at Area-P provided an update for us yesterday and here is the summary:

Area-P is on their third prototype as of today. The first two prototypes involved a larger and smaller diameter tubing as well as a myriad of combinations using different needles, airbox configuration, etc.

Power gains are in the 10-15% area at this early stage in the process and power gains are down low (4000-6000rps) and then again at the higher rpms. This is not necessarily a bad thing considering the unique profile of the 250 engine. However, it is their hope to make the power more linear, similar to the performance gains of the 2008+ models.

Today, I received word that the R&D discovered a much more linear powerband with the third prototype (better than expected) and they need another week of testing to refine this new combination. The data/hp figures should be in by next week.

The part that is may be quite interesting to 250r owners is that Area-P is considering a value-added package that *may* include an airbox/battery box modification bracket that allows use of K&N or foam air pods. You can see the configuration in the pictures above. Why is this important? Well, because you optimize and gain much better airflow, access to your carbs (for adjustment and cleaning), a cleaner appearance that makes sense and, most importantly, you lose 3 extra pounds of weight!

Besides the performance gains, sound profile and appearance, some may be quite interested to learn that early estimates show that doing the Area-P exhaust upgrade will net result in a ~17 lbs weight loss. Yup, about 17 lbs…

(The 17lb weight loss is an early estimate and this number includes ditchin the center stand, airbox and old exhaust.)

By implication, this means that the rider can gain 17lbs and it will all break even....now where's my box of Krispy Kremes? :)

....now where's my box of Krispy Kremes? :) ... or chocolate covered macadamia nuts. :D

Sounds awesome. Just some more slight verification.... "Pre-gen models" meaning other 2nd gen exhausts? (2 bros, yoshi, & muzzy)? Also, could you give them a request: The main problem I had with getting the muzzy full system is that the clearance was crappy. You had to cut your bottom fairing unless you wanted it to just melt. I'm hoping they already thought of this, and, as they're very professional, they probably did, but could you make sure they keep that problem from happening with theirs? Thanks.

Sounds awesome. Just some more slight verification.... "Pre-gen models" meaning other 2nd gen exhausts? (2 bros, yoshi, & muzzy)? Also, could you give them a request: The main problem I had with getting the muzzy full system is that the clearance was crappy. You had to cut your bottom fairing unless you wanted it to just melt. I'm hoping they already thought of this, and, as they're very professional, they probably did, but could you make sure they keep that problem from happening with theirs? Thanks.

Pricing will be similar to our '08-09 model exhaust: but possibly with additional value of the aluminum battery box and/or uni-pod combo. We won't know until the project is completed. We will offer somekind of "Ninjette.org" special, since this is where the original interest of an early model exhaust came from.

We would never design an exhaust system that required you to modify your fairing to prevent it from burning. :thumbup:

I must say, even though I have an 08 reading this thread is great. Kerry, you are how all people should run their businesses! :thumbup:

These details sound awesome. Can't wait to see it, and hear what it sounds like.

"In terms of sound, I believe there will possibly be (3) versions similar to the pre-Gen models; a larger, quieter model, and a smaller carbon and stainless model." - Purspeed

So does that mean there won't be a quiet core cf version? If it's priced like your others, I'd definitely dish out the extra $50 to get the carbon one! But only if it comes in the quiet core. =]

Thanks and props to Area-P for being much more professional than Muzzy! :D

These details sound awesome. Can't wait to see it, and hear what it sounds like.

"In terms of sound, I believe there will possibly be (3) versions similar to the pre-Gen models; a larger, quieter model, and a smaller carbon and stainless model." - Purspeed

So does that mean there won't be a quiet core cf version? If it's priced like your others, I'd definitely dish out the extra $50 to get the carbon one! But only if it comes in the quiet core. =]

Thanks and props to Area-P for being much more professional than Muzzy! :D


@ KKim: they are all gone, friend. Today, they disappeared. :)

@ Verus: There will be a quiet core version with 100% certainty. There will also be a stainless and carbon fiber option. Although I am not entirely sure, I am fairly confident that both sizes/sound profiles will be available in carbon fiber or stainless.

The exhaust's performance gains and appearance are exciting enough. However, the potential weight savings and perhaps even airbox/battery mod makes the Area-P exhaust a rare gem for pre-Gen or pre-2008 model Ninja 250's. Besides their customer oriented reputation, with Area-P you need not worry about "claimed" horsepower gains and weight loss.

Their products are backed by data that they freely publish.

Sweet. If I get one of these, I'll be getting the quiet core. My preference for it would be if there does end up being a carbon fiber version of it. Thanks for the info guys. Just for clarification: Above you say that they are finishing their final prototype... So this exhaust will be available in the next couple of months?

Sooner, if all goes well, I believe.

Following up on the pre-Gen or 2007 and earlier Ninja 250 aftermarket exhaust from AreaP, I received the following update from Area P.

As of now, it appears as if I will take delivery of my bike this weekend along with the Area P full system. Due to the level of interest, I will be posting before and after pictures as well as before and after video. In addition, I will be conducting an agnostic review which will include my objective and subjective findings of this new exhaust system.

Feel free to post any questions and I will do my best to answer them for you. Enjoy the pics!


Here is the update from Kerry Bryant at Area-P Exhaust Systems:

"We have made and tested 5 different prototypes and designs. In essence, we have narrowed it down to one design that had very smooth linear power. Then another that had very strong hits throughout the power-band, and made more peak power. They are averaging in the plus 10 - 15% area which is what we expected on the older model bike. When combined with approximately an 18 lb weight savings between the exhaust, air box and center stand, that's a pretty good overall package.

I've attached some pictures taken during the prototyping process. Since we have made 5 different head pipe and collector sections, I have not yet decided which design we will put into production until we look at all the data. The one picture of the system without the fairing installed, is a race style slip-fit/spring mount (spring mounts not installed) with merge collector. This design is what we refer to as "pipey". It hits hard from 4000 - 7000 rpm, drops off a little, then hits hard again from 8000 to peak at 11750 rpm. I do like the way it responds with this system. The final version will be slightly more linear.

As with the 08-09 model, the response is very similar between the standard and long quiet mufflers. We'll be doing some sound bytes before the weekend. It sounds slightly deeper than the '08-09 model. That is primarily due to overall larger diameter stepped head pipes, and the removal of the air box."

~ Kerry Bryant

Following up on the pre-Gen or 2007 and earlier Ninja 250 aftermarket exhaust from AreaP, I received the following update from Area P.

"pictures"

~ Kerry Bryant


:eek::eek::eek::drool:

okay, folks... the next time you see some fly by night company selling a knock off of an Area P exhaust, remember this thread. Here is a company dedicated to turn out the very best product for their customer. In that process, they are spending untold hours and materials to get the exhaust "just" right. When they are done, I have no doubt their product will be at the head of its class.

To support another company who takes Area P's final design and copies it with inferior materials, labor and support is just plain wrong.:tsk: We should all do our best to help support companies like Area P who are dedicated to working with us to better our bikes. Remember that when you are trying to decide which exhaust system to purchase for your bike.

Props, Kerry... Outstanding Job!! :thumbup:

Purspeed... you are one lucky SOB. :D

Those look awesome! Congrats on a good job! I'm planning on buying one of your full sets when I make up the money (and after I buy a lap-top which is a must-have). Looks amazing. Personal opinion - it'll look better with the modded endcap you guys sell. That's assuming, of course, that it's offered with this exhaust as well, but considering your skills, I'm sure it is. Well done! Looking forward to sound bytes! :D

Just a request - can you also post a pic of the other side of the bike? I'm trying to decide what to stick over there so I can keep the center stand without it looking like it has a growth! Considering a helmet lock. Anybody got any ideas?

Looking foward to the before and after pics and sound bites.

All I can say is TOTALLY SEXY!!!!

Travis

Purspeed... you are one lucky SOB. :D

I feel pretty good right about now. :D

I'm lucky to have a good friend. ;)

@ Verus: Here ya go, bud:

Hmmm.... Looks great except for the amount the center stand sticks out. I'll figure something out to work with that though. Or I'll just take it off and throw it back on when I need to do maintenence and stuff. Thanks for posting the pics!

to say i'm impressed with the efforts of the folks at Area P does their work no justice!

also impressive is your updates to this r&d process, thank you much purespeed...and kkim is right. you ARE one lucky SOB

had been researching the airbox mod and didnt care for what i read as far as pods vs airbox filtering mods, but i'm gonna sit and wait to see what the final product is like, cuz it appears that'll be put to rest once i install the Area P exhaust.

thanx for your efforts Area P, Purespeed :goodjobsign:

she WILL be mine....OH yes...she will :drool: :yumyum:

Bye Bye centerstand.. Guess that is what rear stands are for eh?

Yes, I made this account for the purpose of being able to see these pictures..

The quiet carbon model, intake pods, and re-jet will be going on my list for mid-summer/next winter upgrades.

Excellent work Area P, many of us have been waiting for something like this.

Can't wait to hear sound clips.

to say i'm impressed with the efforts of the folks at Area P does their work no justice!

also impressive is your updates to this r&d process, thank you much purespeed...and kkim is right. you ARE one lucky SOB

had been researching the airbox mod and didnt care for what i read as far as pods vs airbox filtering mods, but i'm gonna sit and wait to see what the final product is like, cuz it appears that'll be put to rest once i install the Area P exhaust.

thanx for your efforts Area P, Purespeed :goodjobsign:

she WILL be mine....OH yes...she will :drool: :yumyum:

You are very welcome. Just an FYI, Area-P spent quite a bit of time running a myriad of combinations to find the 'perfect' system to get the most out of their exhaust.

So, with that in mind, if they suggest the airpods/filter mod, it may be such that with their particular system, it is probably best.

At the same time, the mod drops 3lbs of weight, cleans up the appearance and makes access quick and easy.

I have a 2008 250 and I've been debating between an Area-P or a different exhaust for quite some time. I'm not sorry to say that price was gunna be the deciding end factor in my choice. But after reading this thread, I can't put into words how impressed I am with this company. What I'm saying is, once summer comes around Area-P will have another customer :)

:whathesaid:

So, with that in mind, if they suggest the airpods/filter mod, it may be such that with their particular system, it is probably best.
.

i'll definately go with recommendations Area P has for the pipe. in searching for pre-gen airbox mods, the pods entail so much tweaking to get them working right that most suggested doing it for the track cuz it was such a pain to get it working good. yet am sure there are other variables involved. besides, if i want the Area P, i'll do anything to make it so!

EASY there.... :hand: ALMOST anything

:yo:

the pods entail so much tweaking to get them working right that most suggested doing it for the track cuz it was such a pain to get it working good.

Re-jetting does take some work to get it perfect for your specific bike and location. I'm sure Area-P will likely recommend baseline jet sizes to start with, ie larger mains for instance. With the increased air flow the bike will want to run lean so rejeting is necessary to richen the mix (introduce more gas.)

Anyhow, there is a lot of good info out there about how to properly rejet for pods and new exhaust. You are right it does take a lot of trial and error, but it is worth it in the end. You could always find a dyno shop and pay them for rejeting of course.

Below you will find details about the R&D that went into the Generation 1 (1988-2007 year model) Ninja 250r that some may eye opening. This information was gathered during a conversation that took place with Kerry Bryant, President of Area-P exhaust systems today.

On the Generation 1 & 2 models, it takes a lot of effort, a serious development program and open thinking to make power on a small displacement bike. Compared to big bikes, it is very difficult to make power on small displacement four strokes, as any engineer will tell you.

Rather than simply using the extensive efforts of the Generation 2 Ninja, changing the mounting points and selling this exhaust to the public, the subtle engine design differences resulted in a serious challenge. The Generation 2 exhaust simply did not perform well on the Generation 1 bike. So, the test bike ended up being at Area-P for 4-5 weeks under a very intensive program and concentrated effort. There are some interesting findings on Gen1 vs. Gen2 bikes. Gen1 puts out more power stock than Gen2. They are a little bit strong stock, but they do not respond as well to modification compared to Gen2. Gen2 responds very well to upgrades. While G1 carbs are more difficult to dial in and this is info that comes out of developing products for the two different bikes. Different engine, carbs, air box, etc. have a significant impact on design even though the Gen1 and Gen2 bikes share the same lineage.

On this exhaust Area-P smoothed out the power and made it less abrupt and it has very predictable, linear power. This was the result of 6 hand built prototypes.

Please note that the 08/09 pipe is completely different than the Gen1. They have absolutely nothing in common. 08/09 would not work on Gen1 as it’s a completely different dynamic.

On the Area-P exhaust they were able to make peak power at 1000rpm’s lower than stock and the reason you do that is for engine longevity. If you can make peak power at a lower RPM, you prevent having to "wind up" the engine or hitting the rev limiter. Simply put, this helps prevent stresses on the engine that can lead to premature engine failure. Achieving the same peak power output at a lower RPM is a challenge for design engineers and it reflects some serious talent, it should be noted. Here is where art & science meet.

Area-P is much more known for R&D and testing center and manufacturer than a brand name exhaust company. This separates them from “cookie cutter” type exhaust companies. They are able to put in a whole lot more effort into the R&D effort. Others due to size or place in market simply cannot spend 5 weeks creating 6 prototypes for an older model Ninja. That might be based on scale or related to R&D staff. Why spend the time? Because small changes can have significant differences when designing exhaust systems.

Here are a few updates:

Production units will have the option of either stainless steel or carbon fiber (note: high quality carbon fiber) and either the short or long, quiet muffler. Performance between all options is identical. You will lose no horsepower going to the longer, quieter muffler.

A dynojet kit as well as detailed instructions on exactly how to install the kit will take all of the guesswork out of installation. Plug & play. 

The 18lb weight savings is confirmed. (less load on the clutch, faster off of the launch, quicker turn-in, better braking)

The exhaust is estimated to be ready for distribution in late April or early May.

"If you're gonna do it, do it right or don't bother."

Thanks for the update, H. Thing sounds like a winner. :thumbup:

Was expecting to see some sort of dual exhaust, a/p cans on each side..... 2 into 1 looks kinda cool :)

Was expecting to see some sort of dual exhaust, a/p cans on each side..... 2 into 1 looks kinda cool :)

@ KKim: totally agreed. :thumbup:

The 2in1 exhaust creates a really slim profile and looks awesome. Think Ducati.

much much better looking than stock

thanx for the sound bytes!!

standard's got that grunt to it...and quiet IS quiet...excellent!
mahalo nui

(big hawaiian thanx!) :thumbup::thumbup:

Wow, very nice job AreaP - looks and sounds great!

Area P is definetly be my next major mod.
Thank you Area P for all your hard work.

Any more updates and have you guys had a chance to make a sound bite yet?

Any more updates and have you guys had a chance to make a sound bite yet?

look at post #54

Any more updates and have you guys had a chance to make a sound bite yet?

I received the exhaust system fully installed on my bike as well as the jet kit, airbox mod and crankase breather filter (cool little filter). Although quite difficult, I wish to reserve my impressions for the review that I will be posting in about one week.

I will also include pictures and video upon which time. :thumbup:

Feel free to PM me with specific questions, however.

Sorry for missing the post and thanks for pointing it out to me. Very nice sound.

Area-P Exhaust Review ~ 1988-2007 Ninja 250r

I never would have thought that I would say this, but I am keeping my Ninja 250…for life.

Why? Because my new Area-P exhaust has infused a level of performance that I did not think possible.

The first thing that I noticed (besides the clean, precise look of the exhaust) is when I hit the start button. I have to say it…it sounded like a real bike. It revs like a rocket to redline and begs for more. It’s as if the bike was asleep and has been suddenly given five Red Bulls. How so much could come from a 250cc displacement is beyond me.

On paper, you gain about 15% of linear power. That’s roughly 3 horsepower or so. In truth, I didn’t think that it would make all that much difference. That view took a 180-degree spin once I jumped on the Ninja.

Performance review…

The Ninja launches much harder, especially at steep inclines. The front end gets so light that it almost begins to wheelie. If you live around hills, this can be a blessing because a few weeks ago, my bike would have to hitchhike to climb up some of the hills here in Los Angeles.

Increased torque pulls, pulls and pulls all the way to redline…very linear. You feel it in the seat of your pants. And best part? Top speed. You simply hit top speed so much faster. The bike now revs so quickly, that you’ll be shifting gears almost instantly. You won’t notice this until after the fact, though. I was so busy scrambling for the next gear that by the time I hit top speed, it gave me a brief moment to reflect. (I reflected on how far I would fly off the bike if I hit something at over 100mph)

The bottom line that this exhaust system allows the bike to go so much faster that it feels like a totally new bike. In truth, this Ninja behaves more like it had the engine upgraded rather than the exhaust.

Throttle response…

Everyone knows that the pre-Gen Ninja 250r is a forgiving bike. But, why should forgiving mean weak throttle response? As I smoothly rolled on the throttle, the bike immediately responded and began to move. I could actually hear the bike (a nice change) and this upped my throttle control even more. The importance of throttle response, sound and movement cannot be overstated. Just ask any pro-racer: throttle control is the fundamental & most critical skill in motorcycle riding, on the street or track.

Weight loss…

Flickability is markedly improved even over its already flickable character. When my stock system (exhaust, airbox, centerstand) was replaced with the Area-P exhaust, crankcase breather & airpods (cool looking), my bike just dropped 18lbs. (those guys on Ducatis paying $3000 for titanium bits and pieces to save 1-2lbs puts this achievement in perspective). I went the extra mile and removed the rear pegs/brackets and side reflectors for additional weight loss.

The part about the weight loss I like the most is this: simply less junk in the trunk. Without the airbox and using included airpods & crankcase breather, it cleans up the messy stock engine making cleaning, detailing, access a snap. It also looks exceptionally clean. (for those who like to wrench, adjust carbs, etc., this mod makes life a lot easier)

And, with 18lbs+ removed, you get less stress on the clutch and brakes. Translation—longer life.

Sound…

I ride because it’s fun (and because I want to look cool doing so). The sound coming from my Ninja is just plain mean. The sound is akin to 250 GP bike and I have to admit that the feel and attention is addictive. People actually noticed me. People actually turn their heads. Showing off to a friend tonight, she explained that her co-workers new Gixxer doesn’t come close to the sound my bike makes.

As a matter of fact, I was at a red light on Saturday and a rider on an R6 came up next to me. He did not try to race me, but you can tell he wanted to. Why not? Fear of the unknown. With the sound coming out of my 250, this guy did not want to risk getting spanked by a Ninjette…lol…the joy…

My observations…

The Quality…
The quality of the build cannot be overstated. The carbon fiber, stainless, aluminum components collectively form a sculpture that Da Vinci would have been proud of. This is old school craftsmanship with the care and attention of a custom shop. The carbon fiber deserves special mention.

Think Moal hotrods.

The Safety Factor…
Much better throttle control that allows immediate throttle to rear wheel response.

A high profile sound lets other drivers and people notice you.

Better acceleration to pass cars, a must for getting out of the danger zone (blind spot)—this helped me quite a bit, especially when riding on inclines. This is a real confidence booster for me.

Do not have the left side exhaust manifold to burn your leg while mounting the bike. And nothing to get your boots or leather or clothes caught on. May seem trivial, but wait ‘till you try it. You may have a tough time going back to a dual exhaust setup ever again.

The Cost…
Truth be told, this is the exhaust that the 1988-2007 Ninja should have come with. I don’t have a lot of money (and work really hard for the little I do have), but I would not hesitate to pay $800+ for this exhaust. Priced around $4-500, it’s a value unlike any other. And they are considering an introductory special—if you purchase the Dynojet Kit at the same time as the exhaust system, they will include the aluminum battery box, filter pods and crankcase breather for free ($115.00 value)!

Fun Factor…
This is no beginner’s bike. With the proper exhaust system, this Ninja is so much fun to ride that I find myself with a smile from ear to ear on every ride. The power, the sound, the feel…I think about my Ninjette all day and ride with a sense of confidence and pride. I truly think that this exhaust is going to sold out for a good year or two since there is no product like it on the market.

Convenience….
Area-P spent over 100 hours testing and configuring to find the “perfect” tune combo. Thanks to good design, thought and care for customers, installation is easy. Don’t know what the heck “needles” are? Concerned about “jetting the carbs?” Area-P explains it step-by-step. Following their easy instructions, your bike will be tuned like a pro. (even if the only thing you’ve installed before is a lightbulb)

My overall opinion…
This exhaust is not just about sound or looks. To me, it’s about passion.

And this exhaust reflects their passion. It’s beautiful. It’s about design. It’s about imagination. It’s about carefully chosen materials. It’s a poetic expression of great beauty and art.

I bought the ‘07 Ninja just to beef up my skills a bit and planned to sell it in a few months. Thanks to Area-P’s exhaust system, this renewed bike will give me years of serious riding pleasure.

But, I don’t want to be the only one with this exhaust. Please spread word to your fellow riders that Area-P now makes an exhaust for their pre-Gen Ninja.

Area-P has spent so much time and effort developing this ‘perfect’ exhaust, I know that I am going to do everything I can to get word out to our fellow motorcycle brothers and sisters.

Feel free to copy and paste this review on any and all forums.:thumbup:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=39777&postcount=66

Wow, Awesome write up!
Thanks!
If I had the money I would jump on this right away!

bah.. after all this and this is what we get?? I'm gonna go out and just buy a slip on instead. cool sound for way less money. :rolleyes:

dyno charts for the doubting Alex's... I mean Thomas's?? :p

oh where are the pics/videos man!!!

I'm getting one! It might take me a bit to get the money, but I will get one! How long do you think the introductory deal will go on? :D

There is a lot to be said for having a properly tuned carb as well. Not to discount the addition of the exhaust, but your carbs could have been out of tune from the factory, which is notorious on these bikes.

So a big plus is that you had professionals at Area-p properly jet, tune, and hopefully sync the carbs and adjust the idle mixture screws (syncing the carbs balances the vacuum and smooths idle, and idle mixture screws adjust the performance of the transition range between idle and revving.) With these steps alone, and a thorough carb cleaning of course, you can improve the response of the bike dramatically.

The addition of intake pods and exhaust combined with a properly tuned carb can then really bring this bike to life.

Oh, also I'm ordering this exhaust soon as I can afford it. I was hoping to get the battery tray and breather without having to get the Dynojet kit (I use a different brand jets.)

Glad you are enjoying your new found fun bike! They sure are great bikes when tuned right.

I'm getting one! It might take me a bit to get the money, but I will get one! How long do you think the introductory deal will go on? :D

I don't have that information, but I will check with Kerry Bryant and see what I can find.

Also, if anyone posts on other message boards, be sure to to link them or copy and paste the review.

There is a lot to be said for having a properly tuned carb as well. Not to discount the addition of the exhaust, but your carbs could have been out of tune from the factory, which is notorious on these bikes.

So a big plus is that you had professionals at Area-p properly jet, tune, and hopefully sync the carbs and adjust the idle mixture screws (syncing the carbs balances the vacuum and smooths idle, and idle mixture screws adjust the performance of the transition range between idle and revving.) With these steps alone, and a thorough carb cleaning of course, you can improve the response of the bike dramatically.

The addition of intake pods and exhaust combined with a properly tuned carb can then really bring this bike to life.

Oh, also I'm ordering this exhaust soon as I can afford it. I was hoping to get the battery tray and breather without having to get the Dynojet kit (I use a different brand jets.)

Glad you are enjoying your new found fun bike! They sure are great bikes when tuned right.

Thank you for the well wishes and feedback! :)

I had the carbs thoroughly cleaned, tuned and sync'd several months before the Area-P exhaust system was installed. My power output on my bike was 26hp, which is the upper output limit for this model stock. So, it was actually making the maximum power for this year model before the install.

That's what makes the Area-P exhaust system so unexpected. To be able to do so much to a stock bike that was already running at peak is quite impressive.

oh where are the pics/videos man!!!

Great question. I will be taking pictures of the exhaust this weekend and also include video. :cool:

I wanted to get the write-up online as soon as possible since quite a few peeps wanted to get the details.

dyno graph available on the final setup?

p-speed, again, thanx for your impression on the area p project. i'm definately in!

just say when and where :thumbup:

dyno graph available on the final setup?

@ KKim: Kerry should be posting that information shortly. :)

@komohana: Sounds like a plan! This exhaust system is too much fun for one person.:)

dyno graph available on the final setup?

Here is the final dyno chart. As Purspeed has indicated by his experiences with the system, the graph will help draw some correlation to what he is actually feeling. The power increase is upwards of 3 hp and 3 tq in some areas. Overall average is about 10 - 12%. The Dyno graph will not completely show you how linear your power and throttle response actually feels from the weight savings, spot-on jetting, and the big increase in low end torque. That can only be fully appreciated from actually riding.

When you have that kind of increase in low end hp/tq on a small displacement engine, as well as lowering the rpm ceiling where it makes peak power, you simply get there much quicker. This was critical in our R&D of the system. The feeling of improvement in actual acceleration is more linear; and you don't need the dyno to show that. That's the kind of improvement you actually "feel". Sometimes we refer to it as the "seat of the pants dyno".

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd0f709fab00000040O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

thanks, Kerry. That torque curve improvement at the lower revs is pretty impressive. :thumbup:

congrats on a job well done. Is the system available for sale at this time?

Thanks for posting the dyno charts. :)

The dyno chart speaks for itself, that is for sure. Glad that you had a well tuned carb going into the project as well. Knowing that your carbs were in tune before and the fact that you feel and see ~3hp difference says a lot for the pods/jetting/exhaust setup. 3 horses and torque will certainly add a little bit of response to that throttle.

Looking forward to having this exhaust on by end of summer :)

Just got back from a nice sunny day ride myself, I really love these bikes.

thanks, Kerry. That torque curve improvement at the lower revs is pretty impressive. :thumbup:

congrats on a job well done. Is the system available for sale at this time?

Thank you! We'll schedule it into production later this month after all the tooling & fixtures are completed. All the info should also be up on our website within the next week or so. Should be available in late May.

/moving thread to 1st-gen tech...

/moving thread to 1st-gen tech...

1st-gen tech..:attention:

oh we LOVE the sound o' that one! :cheer2:

:dance:

Here are a few pictures of the exhaust! I shot a closup of the carbon fiber for a bit of detail.

Notice the clean profile of the Ninja 250r with the Area-P exhaust?

More pictures and videos to come...:thumbup:

Looks great! :kewlpics:

Looks great! :kewlpics:

Thanks Alex! :D

There will be more to come, as I had a busy weekend.

I really like the short carbon fiber can best!

I really like the short carbon fiber can best!

The shorty carbon looks awesomest...:D

I agree, the shorty carbon looks awesome! I'm still getting a long quiet core one though. I want my bike louder than stock, but still relatively quiet. :D Definitely carbon though. I'm still hoping to be the 1st flat-cap pregen. Nobody steal that from me please! :rolleyes:

Oh, another question really fast: The connection between the exhaust hanger and the exhaust itself is different in your pic from the stock bolt. Is that part included in the setup? Also, is it still possible to have passenger pegs? I don't have mine on either, but I might end up putting them back on. That can still be done right? Thanks! :)

I'd get the shorty carbon with this:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16772

:D

That looks amazing, another great product by AREAP!

I'd get the shorty carbon with this:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16772

:D

Yeah, I just saw that and thought it was awesome! The only other sound dampener for an exhaust I'd heard of was the one from Two Bros that only lessens sound by 2 - 3 DB! Yet another thing that AP does better than the rest! :thumbup: But, as I'll be getting the quiet core, and the flat-cap, I can't use it, nor will I need to! Oh well... :rolleyes:

What is this 'flat-cap' you keep referencing? I'm getting the quiet core carbon myself, not too interested in being loud but I want the improved performance and the deeper tone.

What is this 'flat-cap' you keep referencing? I'm getting the quiet core carbon myself, not too interested in being loud but I want the improved performance and the deeper tone.

This is a picture of a '08-09 model system, but the Flat Conical End Cap is the same.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9da24b3127ccec69e6121b0c500000040O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/[/QUOTE]

I agree, the shorty carbon looks awesome! I'm still getting a long quiet core one though. I want my bike louder than stock, but still relatively quiet. :D Definitely carbon though. I'm still hoping to be the 1st flat-cap pregen. Nobody steal that from me please! :rolleyes:

Oh, another question really fast: The connection between the exhaust hanger and the exhaust itself is different in your pic from the stock bolt. Is that part included in the setup? Also, is it still possible to have passenger pegs? I don't have mine on either, but I might end up putting them back on. That can still be done right? Thanks! :)

The connection between the exhaust hanger and exhaust is simply a spacer and washer/s that is included in the Area-P package.

I happened to remove the rear pegs and left-side bracket to remove a bit of weight and clean up the looks. However, the exhaust fully allows you to use your stock rear pegs, if you so choose. There are no clearance or other issues and I actually received the bike back with the rear pegs and removed the myself after the fact.

The beauty about this system is that all stock components still work perfectly. But, if you wish, you can remove stock components to save weight or for aesthetics.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Yeah, I just saw that and thought it was awesome! The only other sound dampener for an exhaust I'd heard of was the one from Two Bros that only lessens sound by 2 - 3 DB! Yet another thing that AP does better than the rest! :thumbup: But, as I'll be getting the quiet core, and the flat-cap, I can't use it, nor will I need to! Oh well... :rolleyes:

That is the same one I am planing to buy.

wow 5 ft.lbs at 5k is huge for driveability of a small disp bike, huge. looks like this exhaust is a gigantic winner - looks good, drops weight, and linear full powerband improvements

It looks great!! :thumbup:

I can't wait until it comes out for the 07 & older models.

Hey Rick! Stop stealing my ideas! ;) Hehehe.... Looks like I might end up being the second pregen with a flat-cap! Dang! :D

Hey first come first served.

Yeah, I know I know! Would've been nice though! ;)

The flat cap looks cool, but I like the standard outlet better myself. :)

Hey PS... any updates as to how you like the kit to date? :)

Kbryant, Have you set a date yet for it to be available for market?

Hey PS... any updates as to how you like the kit to date? :)

Glad you asked, Kkim. :)

The Area-P exhaust is the part the Kawasaki forgot.

Area-P has transformed the bike and made riding much, much more pleasurable. The weight and revs is really what you feel on a daily basis.

The bike is so much lighter (on an already light platform) and the revs come so quick that the package as a whole flies like angry hornet. And the sound doesn't pretend about anything. The sound simply reflects the capability of the bike. The sound is serious and incredibly good.

Going back to a stock system would mean me selling this bike. The difference is so significant that without the exhaust, I would have a tough time keeping the bike. The weight, performance drop and sound of the stock exhaust is not a part of my reality (thanks Area-P!).

Regarding availability, Area-P is standing by for confirmed orders before tooling up for production. Production can be launched fairly quickly, so if you are interested in this exhaust, then contact Area-P and let them know.

I usually would not write this, but with this product I am comfortable stating that you will not be dissappointed. In fact, you will extremely impressed by the craftsmanship, design and performance. Pictures don't do this product justice.

This exhaust system is beautiful. The price is incredible. Life is good.

Glad you asked, Kkim. :)

The Area-P exhaust is the part the Kawasaki forgot....

...Regarding availability, Area-P is standing by for confirmed orders before tooling up for production. Production can be launched fairly quickly, so if you are interested in this exhaust, then contact Area-P and let them know.


thanx for the update, and i'm gonna contact them cuz i am very interested!
being lazy here... whats the best contact addy for this?

thanx in advance

You can PM kbryant on this forum. Kerry monitors this forum on a regular basis.


or


contact info here...
http://www.areapnolimits.com/contactus.html

mahalo kelly :)

We're excited about putting this system into production. As noted, we've simply been awaiting further interest prior to scheduling production to begin.

We're excited about putting this system into production. As noted, we've simply been awaiting further interest prior to scheduling production to begin.

What is the pricing as of now?

What is the pricing as of now?

Same prices as noted on our website www.areapnolimits.com for the '08-09 models (4 different combinations).

We are also considering an intro offer - if you purchase the Dynojet kit at the same time as the system, we will include the set of Air Filter Pods, Crankcase Breather, and Aluminum Battery Box at no charge.

We'll have the website page up shortly on the '88 - 07 model particulars.

Hi Kerry,

How about an initial intro offer for ninjette forum members only? :D

It would highlight the close association we have shared throughout this development stage, plus possibly up membership here.

I'm sure that would at first limit the number of production units from your end, but at least you would have confirmed orders if you structured it to make the discount available to a confirmed number of people before you started production, much like group buy. :)

Absolutely! Once we get closer to production, we'll make it "officially" a Ninjette deal. ;)

Absolutely! Once we get closer to production, we'll make it "officially" a Ninjette deal. ;)

That is great!!!!! I am sure you will get at least 10 confirmed orders from the members here.

That is great!!!!! I am sure you will get at least 10 confirmed orders from the members here.

Don't be so hasty, Rick. You'll be surprised how many excuses you'll hear when the time comes for people to put their money where their mouth is. To avoid any ill will that could arise from ninjette's dealing with Area P, perhaps as the time draws nearer, one of the parties interested from the ninjette side could work up a commitment list from all of the ninjette pregen owners intending to purchase.

That way, a legitimate list of customers could be presented to Kerry without the usual hassles this type of special deals inevitably incurs to the vendor. Last thing I would want to jeopardize is the loss of support Kerry has graciously lent to ninjette to date.

Any volunteers? :D

I took off my lower fairings today and spent a fair amount of time staring at the Area-P exhaust. All I can say is wow. The craftsmanship is simply in a class of its own.

What would the world of motorcycles be like if all aftermarket parts were this good?

all i can say is that i'm very very impressed with how this looks. i was thinking about getting the full muzzy for my 250 (right before i totaled it) but after i buy my new one this next week i'll definitely be looking to buy this instead. can't wait :)

I'm getting one of these exhausts! I have to save up enough money first though. Highschooler on a part time salary here! But she will be mine!!! :drool:

You and me both buddy. Money is tight but we will make it happen!!!

Just a quick update for fellow Ninjetters:

I gapped and replaced my spark plugs with a fresh set of NGK's and the bike starts up a bit quicker and, more importantly, sounds a bit meaners. It revs slightly faster but seems to rev with greater umph...if you know what I mean.

I can't ride this weekend because of a little hand injury (non-bike related), so I'll have to give you my report next week.

Any questions that you have on the Area-P exhaust, shoot them this way.

Is the muffler section a permanent core construction like the original equipment mufflers on my EX-250?

In other words, it doesn't have to be re-packed periodically like some of the other aftermarket mufflers I've read about?

If you're thinking this is a dumb question, at least I warned you ahead of time!

It needs to be repacked, but to date, I have not heard of anyone that has had to repack an Area P muffler. They use some high faluting packing material that stands up very well to use.

Good to hear that you don't know of anyone who's had to repack one yet.

I'd like to know more about the expected lifespan of the material it's packed with. Is there any guidance or information from the Area P folks as to how long the packing is expected to last? Is it a year or two or three. Or is it a certain number of miles? Will the exhaust get progressively louder and louder as it ages? I guess I could venture over to the Area P website to hunt for some information.

I'm not sure what "high fault" packing material is, has a good sound to it though.

lol... high faluting= highfalutin= fancy. :D

http://www.areapnolimits.com/silentsport.html

I totally misread that. Oh well.

Being from Alabama originally I would've gotten it if you'd spelled it: falutin'

yeah, my bad. :)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv158/EWflyer/SilentSportPremiuminsulation-materi.jpg

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv158/EWflyer/SilentSportPremiuminsulation-mat-1.jpg

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv158/EWflyer/SilentSportPremiuminsulation-mat-2.jpg

yep.. when I bought my AP exhaust a year ago, I was going to order some repacking material at the same time. Kerry advised me to wait and see how long my packing will last before ordering some, so I did. To date, 2600 miles later, I'm still happy with the way the muffler performs. I know when packing blows out as I used to ride dirt bikes with mufflers with packing in it.

Very common to go well over 20,000 miles. Some never need repacking at all. We've had several 250R mufflers returned to us for repack service/inspection. One had 10,000 miles, the other had 14,000 miles on them. We disassembled and inspected. They required no packing to be added and had absolutely no loss of material. We reassembled and returned them to the customers at no charge. :D The Silent Sport Premium from Germany is the best muffler packing material by far. With such a high burn rate (over 1300 F.), it simply does not wear out very easily. The 250R muffler temp does not come anywhere near those temps. So the material has little chance of burn out. We also take great care when we precisely pack each muffler. That in itself makes a very big difference in longevity.

Thanks for the replies about the packing material.

Kerry, are you accepting payment yet, or just pre-orders without payment? If I were to pay now, how long would I be expected to wait before receiving? Just curious. I'm willing to wait til end of summer if you guys are not in production yet on these, but I would prefer not to pay too far ahead of time because of credit card interest :)

I want to re-gear the bike a little taller and having the extra bit of power from this exhaust would help out.

I want to re-gear the bike a little taller and having the extra bit of power from this exhaust would help out.

This matches my thinking about what to do with any extra zip the Area P mod would deliver.

I love the two-into-one looks and I'm pretty well satisfied with my EX-250's current acceleration and highway capability. A little reduction in the highway revs would be welcome as long as I don't have to lose any of the bike's current off-the-line performance. This seems like a good way to accomplish that.

Thanks for the replies about the packing material.

Kerry, are you accepting payment yet, or just pre-orders without payment? If I were to pay now, how long would I be expected to wait before receiving? Just curious. I'm willing to wait til end of summer if you guys are not in production yet on these, but I would prefer not to pay too far ahead of time because of credit card interest :)

I want to re-gear the bike a little taller and having the extra bit of power from this exhaust would help out.


My pleasure. We are accepting pre-orders (no payment info required). Anyone contacting us through our website is logged into a file for the "Pre-08" system. As soon as we actually have them in production (scheduled to begin in about 60 days), we will contact everyone and keep you informed of when they will be complete and ready to ship.

Here is the final dyno chart. As Purspeed has indicated by his experiences with the system, the graph will help draw some correlation to what he is actually feeling. The power increase is upwards of 3 hp and 3 tq in some areas. Overall average is about 10 - 12%. The Dyno graph will not completely show you how linear your power and throttle response actually feels from the weight savings, spot-on jetting, and the big increase in low end torque. That can only be fully appreciated from actually riding.

When you have that kind of increase in low end hp/tq on a small displacement engine, as well as lowering the rpm ceiling where it makes peak power, you simply get there much quicker. This was critical in our R&D of the system. The feeling of improvement in actual acceleration is more linear; and you don't need the dyno to show that. That's the kind of improvement you actually "feel". Sometimes we refer to it as the "seat of the pants dyno".

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd01b3127ccec6fd0f709fab00000040O00AbMmLRw5ct2IPbz4S/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
are these the gains with both intake pods and exhaust with proper jetting? why did the 08 ninja get a whopping 7 whp gain (i'm asking this question if your answer to the previous one is yes)?

I just put my order in. I can't wait.

My pleasure. We are accepting pre-orders (no payment info required). Anyone contacting us through our website is logged into a file for the "Pre-08" system. As soon as we actually have them in production (scheduled to begin in about 60 days), we will contact everyone and keep you informed of when they will be complete and ready to ship.

Excellent, that means I am already in Que as I spoke with you and put down my request a month or so ago through email. Was just checking to see exactly how you are working it at this time. Thanks for the info!

are these the gains with both intake pods and exhaust with proper jetting? why did the 08 ninja get a whopping 7 whp gain (i'm asking this question if your answer to the previous one is yes)?

Yes. Uni-Filters and Dynojet kit, properly adjusted/tuned. If you are looking at the dyno chart on our website for the '08-09 model, the actual net gain was just over 5 hp. The "7 hp" you are referring to was comparing actual peak power of the Area P system (12250 rpm = 30.72 hp), to where the OEM system was at the same rpm (12250 rpm = 23.85 hp). On average, most customers seem to be averaging in the 3.5 - 5 hp range.

Specifically, as noted previously, the '88 - 07 model is simply stronger in baseline form, has a much freer flowing oem exhaust, and does not respond to changes as well as the '08-09 model does. The '08-09 model makes slightly less baseline power stock, but it responds much better to changes as it has been restricted more by emissions standards both at the exhaust and intake than the '88-07 model was.

...looking forward to fellow members receiving this exhaust!

it's kind of lonely on top...:)

My pleasure. We are accepting pre-orders (no payment info required). Anyone contacting us through our website is logged into a file for the "Pre-08" system. As soon as we actually have them in production (scheduled to begin in about 60 days), we will contact everyone and keep you informed of when they will be complete and ready to ship.

Ok.... Let me be absolutely sure on this..... You guys are allowing us to send a pre-order, which gives you the correct number of them to make and the specifications we want. You begin production in 2 months, give or take a few days. Are you asking for payment before, at the start of, or after production? If I don't have to pay until after it's already built, I'll definitely send you an order. :D As of right now though, I'm having a bit of trouble saving money around the random things that appear that require me to pay for them. :rolleyes:

Ok.... Let me be absolutely sure on this..... You guys are allowing us to send a pre-order, which gives you the correct number of them to make and the specifications we want. You begin production in 2 months, give or take a few days. Are you asking for payment before, at the start of, or after production? If I don't have to pay until after it's already built, I'll definitely send you an order. :D As of right now though, I'm having a bit of trouble saving money around the random things that appear that require me to pay for them. :rolleyes:

We would never ask anyone to pre-pay for an order that is not ready to assemble and/or in stock. You would only pay when it is ready to ship. Just drop us an e-mail directly to say you are interested in ordering. We will then add your name to the list of those interested and contact you when the systems are actually available. We need nothing more than your serious interest at this point. ;)

Okay, I have a few questions about the exhaust kit. First, are you still planning on doing the deal when you buy a dynojet kit with the exhaust? Also, is this something that most anybody should be able to install themselves (I understand that rejetting the carbs is in order, and have never done that)? Last, is the standard (stainless steel) chromed, or more of a flat silver? If I get one it would probably be the standard stainless steel as long as it is not super shiny.

Thanks

Ryan - do you have a bike to put the exhaust on yet? Is it a pre-gen or a 2008+?

No, I don't have a bike yet but I am going to be buying a pregen sometime this week or next.

Got it! :thumbup:

E-mail sent! :thumbup: So, just because I'm curious, you mentioned both an introductory discount and a possible ninjette.org member discount. Any news on whether or not both are offered and what they are? Thanks! :D

Okay, I have a few questions about the exhaust kit. First, are you still planning on doing the deal when you buy a dynojet kit with the exhaust? Also, is this something that most anybody should be able to install themselves (I understand that rejetting the carbs is in order, and have never done that)? Last, is the standard (stainless steel) chromed, or more of a flat silver? If I get one it would probably be the standard stainless steel as long as it is not super shiny.

Thanks

Yes, we'll be doing a "Ninjette.org" deal. Just need to have the system a little further along in production to determine the exact price. But if you look back on page three (I believe), there are some details. The system is reasonably easy to install, as is the battery box, uni-filters, breather element and Dynojet kit. If you are not reasonably comfortable with working on things, simply read the instructions, and look through the pictures to see if you want to tackle the project. The Jet kit is a little more advanced on the '88-07 to install. But again, not too difficult. If your not comfortable, take it to your local dealer or performance shop for them to install. Or if you get stuck somewhere, contact us and we'll walk you through it ;). The stainless steel muffler has a brushed/satin finish.

E-mail sent! :thumbup: So, just because I'm curious, you mentioned both an introductory discount and a possible ninjette.org member discount. Any news on whether or not both are offered and what they are? Thanks! :D

See above post and page 3. We'll try to firm up the "deal" later this month.

Awesome! :thumbup: I'm dumping money in the bank every chance I get for the next 2 months just to be sure I have enough. Just another curiosity question, on your website it says that you use paypal. Do you have a checkout system (like ebay) or is it just a regular money transfer from one paypal account to another? I'm planning on paying through paypal either way, I was just curious as to which way you use, since you don't have any form of checkout posted on your site. Thanks again! :D

Awesome! :thumbup: I'm dumping money in the bank every chance I get for the next 2 months just to be sure I have enough. Just another curiosity question, on your website it says that you use paypal. Do you have a checkout system (like ebay) or is it just a regular money transfer from one paypal account to another? I'm planning on paying through paypal either way, I was just curious as to which way you use, since you don't have any form of checkout posted on your site. Thanks again! :D

We do not use a "check-out" system. We take a more personalized approach. When the product is available, you simply go into the "Contact Us" page and tell us exactly what you want. For Paypal, we then send you an invoice.

Get my bike in 2 weeks and areap kit asap can't wait. Anybody have any concrete info on the best plugs for the pregens as my bike has 2400 on it and has sat for years.....01 02 03? Don't remember doesn't matter.... but i'd like to start with some fresh plugs.
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Kbryant. I was wondering typically the sound/performance difference when comparing the shorty to the long pipe.... I understand the long pipe is quieter but to what extent and does the decibal decrease come with any significant price in performance ...... thanks in advance
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Get my bike in 2 weeks and areap kit asap can't wait. Anybody have any concrete info on the best plugs for the pregens as my bike has 2400 on it and has sat for years.....01 02 03? Don't remember doesn't matter.... but i'd like to start with some fresh plugs.
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I just put in the NGK CR8HSA gapped at .6-.7mm. Special order these from Kragen or someplace.

Be sure to use a tiny bit of anti-seize compound on the threads (and only on the threads!), screw them in hand tight and then tighten another 1/4-1/2 turn...I tightened to a 1/4 turn myself to be conservative.

My engine felt noticably bettere after the swap.

From what I understand, the performance between the longer, quieter muffler is almost identical to the shorty. The shorty is louder (me like) and...uh...shorter (me like).

Kbryant. I was wondering typically the sound/performance difference when comparing the shorty to the long pipe.... I understand the long pipe is quieter but to what extent and does the decibal decrease come with any significant price in performance ...... thanks in advance
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As Purspeed correctly pointed out, performance between the standard and long quiet muffler is virtually the same. The only reduction is sound level.

Sounds good. I'll be sure to get those ngk plugs. Thanks for the info ( purspeed and kbryant ) , I can't wait to ride. I'll probably end up goin shorty flat cap carbon. Bike is black with the semi aqua blue accents. Should look pretty on there and no more restin the helmet on a hot muffler yay!! Lol
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Sounds good. I'll be sure to get those ngk plugs. Thanks for the info ( purspeed and kbryant ) , I can't wait to ride. I'll probably end up goin shorty flat cap carbon. Bike is black with the semi aqua blue accents. Should look pretty on there and no more restin the helmet on a hot muffler yay!! Lol
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It's worth writing again that Area-P and Kerry Bryant in particular are a true pleasure to deal with. The customer service is second only to the quality of the product.

I'm technically not even a customer yet and he's already putting up with my excess relentless questions. Purspeed is right, they're a great company. :thumbup: I can't wait until I can rep them to everyone around here. Seems as though I'll be the first one in my town to have an exhaust from them. Everyone else has the cookie-cutter exhausts! :rolleyes:

i hate my stock exhaust

i hate my stock exhaust

Me too...except its stock with the baffles removed. Sounds like a freakin harely when in an enclosed space.

I'm not sure which part I'm looking forward to the most, the performance jump, or the fact that my bike won't sound like a lawnmower anymore! :D

I will be looking foward to both equaly.

sheesh.. I must be the only one on here that likes teh stock exhaust better.. and if any of you have a left hand side chrome can that you want to sell, PM me with info and price... looking for one in very good condition.. dings okay but no dents or rash..

back to the scheduled topic. lol

Mine have dents, rash and rust on both sides from previous owners falls and lack of repair. :rolleyes:

Me too...except its stock with the baffles removed. Sounds like a freakin harely when in an enclosed space.
did you pull the baffles?, iv had the rivets out but the baffle didn't seem to wan to move how did you get it out? was a re-jet needed after removal?

I didnt do it, PO did. Looks like he drilled out a few spots on the cans, other than that im not sure. He didnt rejet it, and the bike seems to run fine without it.

I dont recommend it, it sounds pretty terrible. Its very - angry lawn mower sounding

I didnt do it, PO did. Looks like he drilled out a few spots on the cans, other than that im not sure. He didnt rejet it, and the bike seems to run fine without it.

I dont recommend it, it sounds pretty terrible. Its very - angry lawn mower sounding

You have a parole officer? And he took the baffles off your bike? He really want's to know where you and your angry lawnmower are doesn't he? :p:p:p

I dont recommend it, it sounds pretty terrible. Its very - angry lawn mower sounding

So thats how to git that sound.:D I used to rock a little 50cc scooter and have missed that gravelly mower whine. Thanks for the heads up.

check it out, myself im interested in the short stainless on a little bike like this any power gain should be quite noticeable i like how the tourqe way down low is better...but for 630 bucks for pods, jets, exhaust i cant wait to see what the ninjette discount is!

check it out, myself im interested in the short stainless on a little bike like this any power gain should be quite noticeable i like how the tourqe way down low is better...but for 630 bucks for pods, jets, exhaust i cant wait to see what the ninjette discount is!

I hope it is prety good because I plan on getting one. I have waited quite a while for them to come out for the pre-gens.

Ooooh, Kerrr-ry!!!?? :p

Will I have to remove my centerstand to install the full system exhaust? I know it isn't necessary but it is really handy and I would like to keep it.

We do appreciate all the interest. Because of that, we have officially put the system into production and up on our website -
http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-EX250-Ninja-1988.php

You can retain the centerstand if you wish.

The "Ninjette" introductory deal will be announced soon. ;)

The "Ninjette" introductory deal will be announced soon. ;)

:dance:

I am waiting with bated breath.

So thats how to git that sound.:D I used to rock a little 50cc scooter and have missed that gravelly mower whine. Thanks for the heads up.

dude, its terrible. I pull away from lights and the stares are like wtf. when you get into the power band around 6-8k rpm, i want to stab myself.

Stock pipes are going on tomorrow, bought a set off ebay. If you want the ricer pipes, they're all yours, just cover the shipping...otherwise they're going in the garbage.

We do appreciate all the interest. Because of that, we have officially put the system into production and up on our website -
http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-EX250-Ninja-1988.php

You can retain the centerstand if you wish.

The "Ninjette" introductory deal will be announced soon. ;)

Whoohoo!!

Stock pipes are going on tomorrow, bought a set off ebay. If you want the ricer pipes, they're all yours, just cover the shipping...otherwise they're going in the garbage.

that's cool. Imma work up my own. thanks tho

Any news on availability and timing? The AP site says late August, but exactly how late? I've got the money now, just waiting on the exhaust to be ready. Also, any news on the discount amounts, since it's almost time for the exhaust to come out? Sorry if I bug, but I'm excited to get my hands on one of these amazing exhausts! :D

Still trending towards the end of this month to be assembled. Essentially all the components have come through manufacturing and should go into final assembly within the next two weeks. We will be annoucing it here, and directly to those who have contacted us by e-mail when we are sure of the availability date. Still not ready to announce the group discount. It will be significant depending on how many people actually confirm placing orders on this site. Ninjette members will be get first priority, as this is where the initial interest was generated. Stay tuned. We're almost there.

Kerry, thanks for the Ninjette priority consideration. Can't wait to see the pregen guys happy with your new exhaust. :)

Thanks Kerry. This will be a great addition to my bike.

I am so far beyond excited to get my hands on one of these beauties! Thanks for all your work so far and thanks in advance for the amazing product I'm going to buy from you! :thumbup: :D

ill be a takin one please

Count me in!!!!:D I just got my bike and I am super interested in this kit..... LOOKS LIKE SEX!

Count me in!!!!:D I just got my bike and I am super interested in this kit..... LOOKS LIKE SEX!

lol... let us know if it feels like it, too. :lol:

welcome to ninjette, Brian. :)

I will be sure to let you know.....lol. Thanks for the welcome...I really like this site alot.

I am starting to get excited!:D

I am starting to get excited!:D
I think we all are my friend
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yeah baby!! :dance:

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


:rolleyes: ;)

I really enjoyed reading purspeed's impression of the kit
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Yea he has done a great job with all his updates.

My Area-P exhaust has golden tones on the pipe area now and when combined with the stainless and carbon fiber, it looks stunning.

I was looking at pic's of my bike stock and now with the exhaust (and all the of little parts that go along with it) and it looks like a different bike...in a seriously good way. ;)

Welcome Brian and Matt! I'm sure you will love the new system when you get it! Be sure to post up an intro in the new members section so you can have a proper welcome!

I seriously can't wait until it's ready!!!! It's killing me!! :D

I'm actively working on finding a used Ninjette and will almost definitely end up with a 2007 or slightly earlier, so I read this thread with great interest. Why would a grown man that has ridden 600 cc sport bikes want a little 250? About the same reason that I wanted a little YSR50, just something that I can crack wide open and have fun with and still not get into too much trouble with speeding. Man that YSR was fun when I had it on the road!

Anyway on to the questions... Does this exhaust benefit from keeping the gasses hot all the way back to the can by wrapping with insulating exhaust tape? If I'm going to do it, I might as well do it all the way right? Is there room to weld an O2 sensor mount? If I can find the pieces I will want to convert whatever I get to EFI with a MicroSquirt DIY system (same as a MegaSquirt but smaller surface mount components). Also I did not see any mention of a definite deal for Ninjette members, is that still a consideration? I would need the entire intake to output package as that seems the only real way to go (until/if EFI can be built).

Thanks

.........Well, as I'm a tech noob and not a representative or employee of Area-P, I can't answer most of your questions... I do know that there is going to be a Ninjette member discount, but that the exact amount of the discount has not yet been revealed. Hope that helps... :o;)

I may have to wait a bit anyway, whatever I buy will definitely need new tires.

Anyway on to the questions... Does this exhaust benefit from keeping the gasses hot all the way back to the can by wrapping with insulating exhaust tape? If I'm going to do it, I might as well do it all the way right? Is there room to weld an O2 sensor mount? If I can find the pieces I will want to convert whatever I get to EFI with a MicroSquirt DIY system (same as a MegaSquirt but smaller surface mount components). Also I did not see any mention of a definite deal for Ninjette members, is that still a consideration? I would need the entire intake to output package as that seems the only real way to go (until/if EFI can be built).

Thanks

There is no measurable difference in power by wrapping the headpipe assembly. Only on the highest horsepower applications can you see a slight difference from an internal and external coating treatment (ie: HPC, Embee, etc.). Otherwise the primary reason it's done, is for external cooling of surrounding components and/or area. We do not recommend wrapping the exhaust. It will void the warranty. The "wrap" does not allow it to cool and dry naturally. As you retain heat and moisture within thin gauge stainless steel, it will become brittle over time and potentially fail.

Yes, there is room to install an 02 Bung. Simply depends on where you wish to install it and if you use a 12mm or 18mm Bung.

We will be announcing the exclusive Ninjette deal later today. It will be on the package. :thumbup:

Cool, thanks. I need to get in touch with another guy on the MS forums (MegaSquirt and or MicroSquirt) because he wants to do the same thing that I want to do, so we can decide what specific O2 sensor will work best for the MicroSquirt. He already has the throttle plates, injectors, and fuel rail from a wrecked UK bike so he is way father ahead than I am. I still need to buy a bike to do all this stuff too (maybe today or tomorrow if luck is on my side).

Any problem if I send you an O2 sensor so you can check fitting, etc. with an order? That way we can make sure that it is located in a good place and it is the correct size bung. I might even get a display and use it for tuning the carbs, or I'll just plug the whole until I can sort out the FI components.

Wait..... Did he say he would be announcing the deal today? No way, he couldn't have. Somebody pinch me.
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Any problem if I send you an O2 sensor so you can check fitting, etc. with an order? That way we can make sure that it is located in a good place and it is the correct size bung. I might even get a display and use it for tuning the carbs, or I'll just plug the whole until I can sort out the FI components.

There really is nothing for us to check-fit. You will simply choose the location and routing within the collector outlet spigot or mid-pipe that you want to install it. The correct 02 bung is matched up to whatever sensor you use. Kawasaki & Yamaha use 18mm sensors, as do most aftermarket add-ons. Suzuki & Honda use 12mm. We can supply you with 02 bungs of whichever size if you need to purchase some.

What about car sized O2? Same thing I think but I'm not sure. I would assume that just after the 2 merges to 1 would be the best point as that gets the gases from both cylinders, but honestly you guys are the experts I think just finding the size and let you decide where the best place would be that will cause the least damage to the performance.

Auto industry uses 18mm. But they are not necessarily the "same". There can be 3, 4, or 5 wire inputs that read, monitor, and/or cause an action to occur at the ecu. It also depends on the wiring harness as well. Some may bypass certain actions. Auto industry sensors are based on different logic (readings) than motorcycle ecu's. Those "closed-loop" systems have many more sensors and/or reading options/actions than an oem motorcycle.

Not exactly sure what you are trying to do, but if you are trying to adapt somekind of FI, you need to be sure whatever unit you are putting in-line or piggybacking with the oem ecu, is only reading a given and known number of sensors and their actions.

Placement has nothing to do with potential "damage". Install it as indicated in the suggested placement options.

We are actually looking to take the DIY fuel injection ECU MegaSquirt (MicroSquirt) and build the FI into the older non FI bikes. Lots of cars have been done with the MegaSquirt and a few bikes are inprogress on finished with MicroSquirt. Both of these systems are mostly based off of car parts, but they do work with narrow and now wide band O2 sensors and in some configurations with a pre-cat and post-cat O2 like the OBD2 systems use. Hopefully the other guy will have a better idea about what we need later tonight, if not I'll spend time looking for the correct Bosch parts and let you know what I need when I get to the ordering step.

Here is the official Ninjette deal - Purchase an Area P full exhaust system for the '88-07 EX250 and Dynojet Kit and receive the Performance Kit and shipping (within the lower 48 states only) for FREE! ($120 value). The Performance Kit includes an Aluminum Battery Box, Two Uni Air Filter Pods, and Uni Crankcase Breather Element. Limited time offer. You must be a member of Ninjette.org and mention this offer at the time of placing your order. Available to retail customers only.

We are officially accepting orders now for assembly to begin the week of August 31. www.areapnolimits.com. If you would like to place an order, go to http://www.areapnolimits.com/contactus.html page and simply let us know what you would like to order. We will then send you a reply.

Here is the official Ninjette deal - Purchase an Area P full exhaust system for the '88-07 EX250 and Dynojet Kit and receive the Performance Kit and shipping (within the lower 48 states only) for FREE! ($120 value). The Performance Kit includes an Aluminum Battery Box, Two Uni Air Filter Pods, and Uni Crankcase Breather Element. Limited time offer. You must be a member of Ninjette.org and mention this offer at the time of placing your order. Available to retail customers only.

We are officially accepting orders now for assembly to begin the week of August 31. www.areapnolimits.com. If you would like to place an order, go to http://www.areapnolimits.com/contactus.html page and simply let us know what you would like to order. We will then send you a reply.
YAY!!! That is what I am talking about Kerry! I will be putting in my order now!!!!

Mine will be in shortly. :D

Order placed!!!!! I can't wait!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

Yay! We ordered!!!!
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Here is the official Ninjette deal - Purchase an Area P full exhaust system for the '88-07 EX250 and Dynojet Kit and receive the Performance Kit and shipping (within the lower 48 states only) for FREE! ($120 value). The Performance Kit includes an Aluminum Battery Box, Two Uni Air Filter Pods, and Uni Crankcase Breather Element. Limited time offer. You must be a member of Ninjette.org and mention this offer at the time of placing your order. Available to retail customers only.

We are officially accepting orders now for assembly to begin the week of August 31. www.areapnolimits.com. If you would like to place an order, go to http://www.areapnolimits.com/contactus.html page and simply let us know what you would like to order. We will then send you a reply.

How much time do we have to place our orders as I am working out of town and my credit card is at home?

direct link to the pre-gen model :)

http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-EX250-Ninja-1988.php

Way to go, Kerry! Thank you. :yo:

This question is mainly for Kerry, or anyone else with real carburator technical skills....

I'm wondering about the differences in the scavenging effect with the 2-into-1 exhaust setup. It appears that with a 2-into-1 (such as the Area P), one cylinder ends up with better airflow (call it cylinder-filling or Volumetric Efficiency) which causes it to run leaner than the other cylinder (assuming both cylinders are tuned exactly the same).

I can think of several possible causes for this imbalance, and I guess they could be interrelated:

1. Is it because the exhaust gas flow (pulse pattern) resulting from the firing order of a parallel twin engine (like our EX-250) favors one of the cylinders, resulting in better scavenging and thus better cylinder-filling (Volumetric Efficiency)?

2. Is it because most (or all) 2-into-1 exhausts for parallel twin motorcycle engines wrap around to the right hand side of the bike, creating a better flow path for one of the cylinders?

3. Or is it a combination of these two?

Anyway, looking at the specifications for the Next Generation EX-250 Carb set-up, you'll see two areas where cylinder #1 and cylinder #2 are treated differently:

2008-2009 EX-250R Factory Carburetor Specifications/Settings:
Make, Type: Keihin, CVK30
Main Jet: #98
Optional Main Jet: #92, 95, 100, 102
Main Air Jet: #100
:confused:Jet Needle: #L: N9VU, #R: N9VW :confused:
Needle Jet: #6
Pilot Jet: #38
Pilot Air Jet: #100
Starter Jet: #48
:confused:Pilot Screws: #L: 2 1/2, #R: 1 3/4 (turns out 360*) :confused:
Throttle Valve: 11* 00'
Idle Speed: 1,300 +/- 50 RPMs
Carburetor Synchronization Vacuum: Less than 2.7 kPa ( 2cm Hg) difference between two carburetors.
Service Fuel Level: 0.5 +/- 1mm (0.02 +/- 0.04in) above the mating surface of carburetor float bowl.
Float Height: 17 +/- 2mm (0.67 +/- 0.08in).

I don't have much experience tuning carbs, so maybe you can provide some info on what's going on here.

The questions are:

What is accomplished by having the Jet Needles be specific to cylinder #1 and cylinder #2 (Left is N9VU and Right is N9VW)?

And which of the two cylinders is the one that gets better Volumetric Efficiency? I don't know what the difference is between Jet Needles N9VU and N9VW is, but the Pilot Screw settings being more open on Cylinder #1 suggests to me that Cylinder #2 must be flowing better because at 2 and 1/2 turns it's obvious we're trying to lean out Cylinder #1 by getting more air to it. Is that right?


The bottom line (it seems): Is that....

A. If you're installing a jet kit after putting on a 2-into-1 exhaust system and you're not using different sized Jet Needles and different Pilot Screw settings for cylinder #1 and cylinder #2, it means you're really only setting up the engine's fuel delivery schedule to make sure one of the bike's two cylinders doesn't run too lean.

and B. You're just accepting the fact that the other cylinder will end up running on the rich side (because of it's lower airflow/cylinder filling/Volumetric Efficiency) .


Just wondering.

Hmmmm. Interesting....
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I tend to think the differences for the new gens were for emissions control. the pregens are not jetted with different needles, mixture settings.

the rejetted bikes with jet kits have identical jetting in both carbs and they run just fine that way, too.

I would have to agree. I'm pretty sure kerry knows his stuff
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I tend to think the differences for the new gens were for emissions control. the pregens are not jetted with different needles, mixture settings.

the rejetted bikes with jet kits have identical jetting in both carbs and they run just fine that way, too.


Of course the pregens were jetted identically, they were simple: one cylinder into one exhaust. No interaction between the exhaust gasses as in a 2-into-1 like the 2008-2009 has.

And I'm not saying a 2008-2009 bike, fitted with identical jetting won't run just fine. I'm just saying the Kawasaki engineers seemed to feel it was worth the effort to differentiate between the two cylinders. That says the cylinders don't have the same VE (volumetric efficiency). They just don't breath exactly the same and therefore one will be lean and one will be rich if they're tuned exactly the same.

You can't write it all off to passing emissions testing. Yes, of course Kawasaki wants to pass emissions, but if both cylinders of the 2008-2009 model were the same like the pregens then all they would have done was tune them identically for a leaner burn.

There's more than that going on with the 2008-2009s and I believe it's the 2-into-1 exhaust.

I think it's more about the design of the air cleaner box and emissions. Trying to run as lean as possible.
Scavenging would be the same for each cylinder as the exhaust valve opens 180* apart from one cylinder to the other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scavenging_(automotive)

btw, this has taken this thread way off subject. start another thread if you feel a need to continue.

I think it's more about the design of the air cleaner box and emissions. Trying to run as lean as possible.
Scavenging would be the same for each cylinder as the exhaust valve opens 180* apart from one cylinder to the other.


You've got 720 degrees, total rotation, in a four-stroke engine cycle (yes, this is a true statement). If your exhaust pulses are only 180 degrees apart during this 720 degree cycle and you've only got two cylinders, do you think your exhaust flow down a 2-into-1 is going to be smooth or lumpy?

Just asking....

4 DAYS! :dance:

Just got an email that the wait is extended. Gives me more time to save
Posted via Mobile Device

Is that what the email says?

I called them a week or so ago. It sounded like they were just getting all the details together, packaging and things like that.

But they (the woman who answers their phones) said mid-September would be the earliest shipping date.

Awww! I didn't see that email! Darn it! :o

This is what I got from Kerry.
Hi Brian,

To update you on your order status - There will be a slight delay in final assembly of the '88 - 07 systems. They are now scheduled to begin final assembly the week of September 14th. All components are built. They are simply awaiting the assembly process.

The delay is related to rescheduling production based on quantities of committed orders. Unfortunately, we received more than 50 initial inquires on this system, but have only received a few committed orders actually placed.

We will contact you again as soon as the assembly process begins. Thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,

Kerry Bryant
President - Area P, Inc.
Silent Sport N.A., Inc.
1240 Simon Circle, G/H
Anaheim, CA 92806
Ph - 714-630-2386
Fx - 714-630-2422
www.areapnolimits.com

I did get this e-mail after all, just later than you guys I guess. Fail to the fake interest!!!! :mad:

I did get this e-mail after all, just later than you guys I guess. Fail to the fake interest!!!! :mad:

Im not so mad about it. It is just rough times right now. It doesn't say they are cancelling production. It will give me a little more time to save up.:thumbup:

True. Maybe by the time I get the exhaust I'll have enough money for the tires, sprockets, chain, and a front rotor. I want to powdercoat my rotors and my rear sprocket if I get the chance, so getting it done while the bike is being worked on (tires, exhaust, etc.) would be a good time. We'll see if I can save up enough by then. :D

True. Maybe by the time I get the exhaust I'll have enough money for the tires, sprockets, chain, and a front rotor. I want to powdercoat my rotors and my rear sprocket if I get the chance, so getting it done while the bike is being worked on (tires, exhaust, etc.) would be a good time. We'll see if I can save up enough by then. :D

OH YEAH! Exactly what I was thinking.:jumping40::partytime10:

The 14th can't come fast enough! This money is burning a hole in my pocket!

Agreed. Of course, the money is actually burning a hole in my bank account, but that's beside the point. :rolleyes:

I'm still trying to find a bike that isn't overpriced and one old enough that I won't feel guilty ripping it apart:(

The money already burnt a hole here but ill find more
Posted via Mobile Device

Approximately 5 days! I received the following email from Kerry and Area-P:

Hi Michael,

Status update of your order - Systems for the '88 - 07 EX250 Ninja are scheduled to be completed on Tuesday, 09/15/09. We will contact you on Monday for payment information.

Sincerely,

Kerry Bryant
President - Area P, Inc.

WOOT! :D

Good things come to those who wait. ;)

My Area-P exhaust is a masterful piece of work. It will lighten up your bike, improve performance like no other and looks awesome.

If anything, I would humbly suggest to go to the other message boards and let them know to get their orders in. In a real way, Area-P is doing us a favor by making this product for us, eventhough we are the end-user and purchaser.

Interesting..... I just went back to look at the pregen page at the Area-P website. The LQC version of our exhaust is now only available in CF. Did nobody order the SS LQC? Intriguing! :cool:

Interesting..... I just went back to look at the pregen page at the Area-P website. The LQC version of our exhaust is now only available in CF. Did nobody order the SS LQC? Intriguing! :cool:

No worries. We are filling all existing orders of those LQC SS versions (actually only one for the Pre-Gen). We discontinued it simply because 95% of the LQC muffler sales have been for carbon fiber (Gen 1 or 2). We can bring that option back if demand warrants it. :thumbup:

Cool. I'm somewhat surprised that few people are ordering the LQC SS. Well, Kkim, looks like you're mostly alone! :D

I've always marched to the beat of a different drummer. Doesn't bother me... I'll own a collector's item someday when everyone else has a CF can. :D

The LQC SS was what I ordered, am I that single SS order that Kerry mentioned? I felt it would go well with my bike's color (2005 Galaxy Silver #2). Anyway, I'm hoping it's available when I make my call on the 15th. We'll see.

I was going to order the SS, but no bike so no order.

Ordered, paid, shipped tomorrow! CAN'T WAIT!!!! :D :D :D :D

Yes! Ordered, paid, ships tomorrow.....c'mon FedEx let's see some hustle.

BINGO! The system arrived this afternoon... Or is it technically yesterday afternoon? Anyway, it's here. It gets installed Tuesday. :D :D

Congratulations!!!!! :D

Mine should be here today.:D But may have to wait til next week to be installed... boooo!

Somebody, anybody, post some pictures. ;)

From AreaP site :D

Man is it hard to carve out time to do the work.

I'm so busy with two jobs and family that it's darn near impossible to get out in the garage. I'm really looking forward to late October.

I'm just glad to have that Area P box sitting in the garage right now.