Just got a set of Pirelli Sport Demons from motorcyclesuperstore.com. Saved a decent amount of money. I've read that they are the preferred tires of 1st gen owners. What's your experience?

The Sport Demons were my favorite tires on our first-gen, and I like them quite a bit on our 2nd-gen as well... :thumbup: Not sure what deals motorcyclesuperstore.com is running, but I usually find good pricing at www.swmototires.com. Their pricing includes free shipping and no tax.

whoa did my post get deleted?
Anyways, be careful the first few miles scuffing.

I have set on my bike and I enjoy them very much. I would never go back to stock.

just got done ordering me a set of them Demons from Southwest Moto Tires. Am still using stock skins on my '03 as i bought the bike with only 1,500 miles on it. was told the stock rubber is notorious for its lack of grip under the right conditions, and discovered that to be soooo true, without injury or damage....just scared the poop outta me one morning.

gonna take awhile to arrive (end of month), but shipping, according to invoice is free! (yeah, thats what i said too and so i emailed them to make sure...awaiting reply)

:burnout:

Motorcyclesuperstore has them cheaper, in stock and free shipping
Posted via Mobile Device

Motorcyclesuperstore has them cheaper, in stock and free shipping
Posted via Mobile Device

:thumbup:

sport demons for 1st gen (16"):
swmoto: F 97.95/R 123.95
motorcycle superstore: F 84.99/R 116.99

Both of them only say free shipping to the lower 48 though, and state that they charge standard shipping rates to Hawaii, which for better or worse, is where komohana resides. :p If you can get either one of them to actually send it for free shipping despite their stated policy, that would probably end up being the better deal.

Your right!! There is only so much the iphone version tells me. Sorry for the inadvertent ignorance. I wish I lived in Hawaii!

yeah, i seen that too...(lower 48 free etc..) but completed the order to see, then emailed them and as of yet have not heard anything. yeah alex, if they send them skins here to hawaii free....geeze i'd get them some customers! like kkim said in another thread, its screwed up if you buy tires from elsewhere and take um in to get mounted here cuz they'll nickel and dime you for it.
i cant recall what site this was at as i went to several this morning, but you know how at some places ya gotta go through the whole 9 yards before you see how much shipping is estimated....this one place had the disclaimer that they ship via their discretion, and the ONLY option to hawaii was the most expensive 2-3 day express air that came out to ... 79 or just about 80 bucks!
i've come to accept that it costs bucks for shipping to the middle of the pacific, but geeze!! thats almost another tire! i emailed them for confirmation that this was the only option and haven't heard anything either.
dont get me wrong, cuz i have spoken to several riders who've gotten stuff sent here and got free shipping after spending X amount of dollars.

did i mention they were missing either an arm or leg? :rolleyes:

just thought i'd mention that Southwest Moto Tires only offers 2-3 day air shipping, costing $76. and some change onto the price of the tires. needless to say i cancel'd my order. i did find what i was looking for on ebay. a rear pirelli sport demon listed for $120.26 plus $14.25 for shipping.

You guys get killed for shipping costs over there; someone ought to build a bridge or something. :)

I believe that was in Prez Obama's stimulus bill. Coming soon to an island near you!

I think you're correct. He doesn't want to fly home and would rather drive the way to Hawaii the next time. :D

I wonder if they'll allow a 250 in his motorcade? Those Harley's are not fuel efficient.:thumbup:

only if the 250 is made in the US... gotta keep the jobs here, ya know, to stimulate the economy. :D

only if the 250 is made in the US... gotta keep the jobs here, ya know, to stimulate the economy. :D

I hate to tell you this but alot of the part on the Harley are made in Japan. Especialy anything electrical.

I hate to tell you this but alot of the part on the Harley are made in Japan. Especialy anything electrical.

ah, so that's how they solved their electrical problems. :lol:

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/original/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg

This reminds me of a scene from Family Guy.

I'm going to order some sport demons. I have decided that I HATE the K630's.

I have K671's for the rear, but I think I'll go with Sport Demons for the front.

just thought i'd mention that Southwest Moto Tires only offers 2-3 day air shipping, costing $76. and some change onto the price of the tires. needless to say i cancel'd my order. i did find what i was looking for on ebay. a rear pirelli sport demon listed for $120.26 plus $14.25 for shipping.

that sucks. i just saw this thread and i got excited when i read that you were getting free shipping. i hate my stock tires. they are so scary when the road is wet.

that sucks. i just saw this thread and i got excited when i read that you were getting free shipping. i hate my stock tires. they are so scary when the road is wet.

:sorry:
i got excited too...premature as it was..

but i DID like the shipping price of the tires i did find.

if you can afford to, change them stock skins my friend. peace of mind and confidence, even if only an issue in yer head, makes that money well spent ya know?

aloha

I can vouch for Pirelli's Diablos too. I have been wearing a pair of them for the last year and they are FANTASTIC for the money.....and compared to the "muddin" tires the bike came stock with!!!

Just got a set of Pirelli Sport Demons from motorcyclesuperstore.com. Saved a decent amount of money. I've read that they are the preferred tires of 1st gen owners. What's your experience?


I have a set of Pirelli Sport Demons on my CBR250RR and they have been a great tire. I have 6000km on them so far and they have held up nicely. I would recommend them for sure.

thanks steve for the heads up about the ebay company. i think it was the same one... cyclehead? anyways, bought the front and rear tires. shipping to hawaii came up to $20.xx for the 2.

was tempted to go with 140 rears, but decided to keep the stock front/rear sizes.

I have the stock K630s and after riding my friends ex250 with the pirellis its like a night and day feeling in terms of grip.My tires make me feel like skateboard wheels are on my bike where as on his I felt like the bike was on rails.

thanks steve for the heads up about the ebay company. i think it was the same one... cyclehead? anyways, bought the front and rear tires. shipping to hawaii came up to $20.xx for the 2.

was tempted to go with 140 rears, but decided to keep the stock front/rear sizes.

howzit & you're welcome gary.
cyclehead, yep thats the seller :thumbup:

good on ya keeping stock skin sizes.
i decided to size up the rear on my '03 to 130. hoping that wont change handling aspects too much!

aloha

I have a 130 on the back of my 05 and it handles great.

I have a 130 on the back of my 05 and it handles great.

:thumbup:

ok, reviving this thread.

How long will the front sport demon last?
I am about to order the tire and I need to know, but getting so many different answers.
I've gotten 12k miles for the Front on the far end of the scale.
I don't do too many aggressive riding.

Ok, just ordered it from a local store. It's going to be here Tuesday.
It was a race shop and the guy behind the counter kindly answered all my questions.
Out of all the tires I've told him about, he said to go with the Sport Demons.
Guess I'll find out how long it lasts soon or later.

you and me both...got my front tire in today, rear last week! cant wait! :burnout:

Just ordered them for my bike as well and just have to wait till the shop calls me telling me they're in. I chose them cause it seems the general consensus on the net from multiple forums is that they are the best tires available for the first gen ninja 250.

I would have to totaly agree.

Yeah, I need to get me a pair of these. I'm at 5k on the stock tires.....

Also, any of you put tubes in the tubeless? I've heard mixed opinions of tubes vS. Tubeless' tires.

I've heard mixed opinions of tubes vS. Tubeless' tires.

such as?

Well, blow out a tubeless, you're on rim! Blow out a tube...you've still got rubber...and a chance to stop where as if you blow out a tubeless......pucker up and get you some. :p Not that I plan on having a blow out....then again, who does?

Blow out a tube...you've still got rubber...and a chance to stop where as if you blow out a tubeless......pucker up and get you some. I'm lost... how do you figure you still have rubber with a tube? what rubber?

Well, from what I've 'heard'. The tread has more of a chance staying on the rim with a tube than it does a tubeless.

hmm... never heard of that before. if that was true, then i would imagine car tires would still have inner tubes as well.

also, if you have a tube and you run over a nail or something, then your only choice is to take off the tire and patch the tube or change the tube. if you are tubeless, as a temporary fix, you could use one of those kits that plug the hole.

of course, i could be wrong.

i think the main type of motorcycle tires that run with tubes are the ones with the metal spoke rims.

i think the main type of motorcycle tires that run with tubes are the ones with the metal spoke rims.

thats what i thought too...but i've heard of running tubes with tubless tires but was never clear on the pro's of the idea. i assume it would prevent some kinds of rapid air loss incidents, maybe give you some time to react...what would that do to weight and balance? nothing i suppose hehe...

ok, i'm still in scrubbing in stage, but I can feel the difference. AHAHHHHAHHAH. It's a totally different bike. I highly recommend.

Well I just got the call today that my tires are in. Now to see if they have an opening tomorrow to put them on or not. If not they should be able to fit me in on friday. :D

Ok, now I'm confused. I got 110/90-16's for the front and the shop is telling me they won't fit cause they are too tall, they rub the fender. So I look at the other tire sizes and the only one listed at 80 is the 120/80-16. So I asked them won't that be too wide and they said they're not sure and that I might not be able to use the sport demon's. I told them that everyone uses them on this bike. Am I missing something there?

100/90-16 my friend.

That's what I have and also here:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_tire_makes_are_available_that_fit_the_250%3F

100/90-16 my friend.

That's what I have and also here:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_tire_makes_are_available_that_fit_the_250%3F

Yah, just figured that out after posting that with the help of nick (nmd003, thanks again for the chat on facebook). So the shop is ordering them and I will be w/o my bike till about Monday or Tuesday. :(

OOPS, you will have them soon enough!

was able to install my sport demons this past saturday. aside from a minor scare thinking i had ordered the wrong front size, both tires mounted without any major problems. i'd like to thank kkim for having me over and helping get those demons on the wheels. was alot of work, and i'm grateful to have had his support!
i got the 130/90 rear and 100/90 front. both tires are taller than the stock rubber that was on there. one thing i noticed after installing is that my centerstand no longer lifts the bike enuff off the ground:

1616

other than that, haven't experienced anything else cuz i haven't had the chance to ride cept for around the block due to weather. of course, there's nothing like new skins to enhance any ride! letcha know how it goes when i get her up in the twisties!

:spider: "with great grip, comes great responsibility!" :spider:

:D

congrats on getting the new shoes! so what are you going to do with the center stand now? remove it? probably free up some weight, huh?

lol... it's always something, eh? put a piece of 2x8 down under where the center stand will land to lift the bike. :lol:

or just let out all the air from your tires before you try using the center stand. :D

lol... it's always something, eh? put a piece of 2x8 down under where the center stand will land to lift the bike. :lol:

already found a piece of flat wood that does THAT thank you very much! :o

or just let out all the air from your tires before you try using the center stand. :D

i had to do that to get the dang tire back on hellOOOooooo :lol:

thats what i thought too...but i've heard of running tubes with tubless tires but was never clear on the pro's of the idea. i assume it would prevent some kinds of rapid air loss incidents, maybe give you some time to react...what would that do to weight and balance? nothing i suppose hehe...
Sorry that I've just read this tread and this might bit out of date. But for info. I'd read about this some where (which I can't remember), and the advice is never put a tube in a tubeless. This is because of the designed of the wheel/rim and the tubeless. You'll be endanger yourself by doing so without any advantages. Please do get advice from the dealer/manufacturer if you insist.

i was able to get in a good ride today (other than just commuting to and from work) with the new sport demons.
of course, ANY new tire installation changes grippage, and these puppies definately do that! my ride to poipu gave me several opportunities to pull some high-g turns and the sport demons did not disappoint whatsoever. first thing i did was to initiate a 45 deg. turn thats just over 100 yards from my driveway. i did this cuz that turn with my old tires nearly had me eating pebbles one morning. the demons gobbled the turn no problem, taken at a higher entry speed than i did that almost-fateful morning. i'm sure i asked too much from my old tires that morning. today, the demons instilled confidence right off the bat, and i found myself powering out of turns with no traction slippage whatsoever.
the REAL test comes when i take these new 'shoes' for a hike up the hill in kkim's wake.
me and my demons will be looking forward to that.

....so what are you going to do with the center stand now? remove it? probably free up some weight, huh?

am probably gonna keep the centerstand till i get an after market exhaust that will force me to take that guy off, ya know? is just to dang convient at the moment, and i dont have any front/rear wheel stands

yet :rolleyes:

Ok so it's about time that I give an update on the tires since I've had them on for three weeks.

I can honestly say that I felt the difference when I was on the bike pulling it out of the garage and didn't even turn it on. The taller tire in the front makes the bike feel allot more balanced. I don't know why Kawi didn't have these sizes stock. I notice a slight reduction in nosediving. My impression was that the feeling in the handlebars was allot more supersportish and less 250ish.

When I started, I had the pressure set to 32-32. I ran like this for a while and just yesterday I dropped the front pressure to 28 and kept the rear at 32. I like having it set at this. The bike just feels better. What I really need to do is check my hot and cold temps and see if its a 10% between hot and cold. I hope it is because the bike is feeling really good.

I've noticed that the tire itself is constructed more rigidly than the stock tires. This can be felt when slowing down to a stop light while downshifting. The vibration from the road and the engine is less absorbed by the tires and more into the chassis. I see no downfall with this and it is barely noticeable. I see this as an improvement.

The actual grip of the tire is much much better than stock. My confidence has increased due to this. I take turns faster than before and the brakes are more responsive as well. I believe that the taller tire in the front has given the bike a better weight distribution.

I do not ride highways other than to get to the twisties. So my analysis is based on frequent leaning. However, these tires have provided me a new problem. Which is for another thread.

How is the millage on the Sport Deamons for commuting? I'm trying to decide what tires to get and I spend most of my riding commuting. I've got it narrowed down to the following three...

Pirelli Sport Demons - I'm concerned about commuting wearing down the center too fast...
Bridgestone BT45 - Duel Compound rear for longer lasting center. My wife has these and likes them.
Metzler Lasertech - Not heard much about them, but I haven't heard anything BAD about them...

Any suggestions?

My front Sport Demons are still very good after 5k trip to california.
I did have about 40lbs of baggage behind me.(i weigh about 160)

I have the demons as well great tire, confidence inspiring, honestly they feel as good to me as the qualifiers (from dunlop) I had on a sv650.

I just had mine installed this past weekend and I'm loving them. I had the stock Dunlops which didn't do well with leaning, imho. The SD are so round they practically lay into the lean. Road bumps are not as pronounced and they don't have the tendency to follow the grooves in the road.

The stock dunlops would lean over, you would just wet your pants when you did lean over that far. They felt so bad and did nothing for making you feel "planted".

I have PSD's on mine, and I honestly can't see myself running another tire.

was able to install my sport demons this past saturday. aside from a minor scare thinking i had ordered the wrong front size, both tires mounted without any major problems. i'd like to thank kkim for having me over and helping get those demons on the wheels. was alot of work, and i'm grateful to have had his support!
i got the 130/90 rear and 100/90 front. both tires are taller than the stock rubber that was on there. one thing i noticed after installing is that my centerstand no longer lifts the bike enuff off the ground:

1616

other than that, haven't experienced anything else cuz i haven't had the chance to ride cept for around the block due to weather. of course, there's nothing like new skins to enhance any ride! letcha know how it goes when i get her up in the twisties!

:spider: "with great grip, comes great responsibility!" :spider:

:D


Get a bike jack and pull off the centerstand. :) That is what I did. One less thing to scrape on the ground!

how much $ do psd's run ?

how much $ do psd's run ?
Very comparable to the stockers.

I think it was posted earlier in the thread....


sport demons for 1st gen (16"):
swmoto: F 97.95/R 123.95
motorcycle superstore: F 84.99/R 116.99

2 weeks ago, they were less than 195 with free shipping at motorcycle superstore. Also no taxes (for me anyway).

Just checked, and they are still at that price.

I just ordered a new sports demon for the rear. I paied 139$ Canadian...I guess it's not too bad since everything is so expensive here (ad 13% tax on that tire and mounting and I'm pretty close to 200$ for the rear only). My front still have some months to go!

the only problem (for me) with ordering tires online is then paying someone else to mount and balance them.. I ended up getting the 100/90/16 SD from teh front from a local bike place for like $180 with taxes, mounting and balancing dropping the bike off as is.

The difference in the bike was immediate.. the Pirelli feels YEARS BETTER than those Dunlops... now I have to replace teh rear and I'll be even happier..

the only problem (for me) with ordering tires online is then paying someone else to mount and balance them.. I ended up getting the 100/90/16 SD from teh front from a local bike place for like $180 with taxes, mounting and balancing dropping the bike off as is.
How much did the place charge to mount/balance the tire? You may want to look around. I know the first place that I went to wanted $60/tire, second place was $28/tire. Also, there was no wait time at the second place.

Can anyone vouch for the SD in the rain?

Edit: I found this thread through the search function, but meant it for an 08.... although that probably doesn't matter.

Can anyone vouch for the SD in the rain?

Edit: I found this thread through the search function, but meant it for an 08.... although that probably doesn't matter.

as much as i have avoided wet road action here, i HAVE had the opportunity to ride the demons i have in some wet weather conditions and i LIKE them! at 2,000 mi. i ran some rain with warmed up rubber and found them stable and felt confident about being on the water.
:thumbup:

I'm excited about the new rear SD I had put on while my exhaust was being tweaked! Those dunlops are crap!!! Can't wait to see the difference.

I can 100% vouch for the SD's in the rain. I got caught in a massive downpour on the highway with high winds, puddles, haze from the rain (ya it sucked and happened in like 30 seconds) and never felt any loss of traction. I did feel wet and beaten to hell and back by the wind however, but the grip felt fine all the way to where I finally found shelter.

I did a lot of riding on wet roads on my SD on my Katana, way better than the other tires I was running. I think it might have actually been the forerunner of the SD as I think they were just called Demons back then. Basically Pirelli makes great tires and pretty much Dunlop suck. I'll have Michelin Pilot Power on my Buell when I pick it up and get the front changed, not sure how many miles I'll get on it this fall, and they only fit the 08/09 Ninjettes (maybe), probably go back to Pirelli (Corsa III) after that since it is stocked at the Harley/Buell dealer.

Good to know.... I was wondering since the center grove is zig-zagged, instead of straight.

It's made to channel the water away from the center and spit it out the edges.

Anyone riding them? My rear tire is toast and Im ordering a new set this week. I think I'm going with the sport demons. What is your take on these demons?

Yes. Love them. Better than stock, and available in stock widths, which I prefer for very flickable nijette. Turn in super with them, grippy, but also not ridiculously soft so you'll still get wear. Prices reasonable, too.

On a track bike I'd go a different direction towards more expensive soft compound radial instead of bias ply. But a great choice for a street bike. Forum mod Alex also swears by them.

Cool, just realized there are previous threads on this subject. Pretty sure Im going with the demons.

Yup. I liked them on the pre-gens and continue to like them on the new-gens.

/thread moved the pre-gen tech

/merged with other mongo sport demon thread

I got my money out of the k630's. Rears so thin and bald , you can almost poke your finger through it.

Cool, just realized there are previous threads on this subject. Pretty sure Im going with the demons.

You can't go wrong with Pirelli Sport Demons.

In the interest of "full disclosure" the following is a public service announcement:

The Sport Demon is a 130/90 16 tire and is larger than the recommended EX-250 tire (which was originally sold with 120/80 and later with a 130/80).

The weight of a larger tire (in this case the Demon) affects a vehicle (motorcycle) in several ways: Unsprung weight, Rotational weight, Total weight, and (unrelated to weight) Overall gearing.

First is "unsprung" weight, which affects suspension performance and is the most complex issue. With no other changes to suspension geometry and damping, more unsprung wieght will negatively affect the suspension's "bump following" ability because the increased mass has more inertia. This is why the designers of racing cars and motorcycles strive for lightness in suspension parts, wheels and tires. A good example of the complexity of this situation is to note the effect of unsprung weight in the interrelations between tires (their weight and bump absorbing ability) and the mass (weight) of the other suspension parts (in total), because it actually creates a "suspension-within-a-suspension" phenomena. This applies to the heavier Sport Demon rear tire because it's extra weight won't accelerate as quickly because of it's greater mass (more mass equals more inertia), but this larger diameter tire itself may have more bump-absorbing ability than the original equipment sized tire, so it's very hard to say what the overall effect it will have on the bike's feel.

Second is "rotating mass" which is easier to understand than unsprung weight because it is simple to see that "more is bad." Any weight added to the bike obviously means less performance, but weight added to any rotating part of the drivetrain not only has to be carried along for the ride, it also has to be accelerated by the engine (i.e. rotated as a means of power transfer) which uses horsepower that could otherwise (in the absense of the extra added rotational weight of the larger Sport Demon rear tire) have been put toward accelerating the vehicle (your EX-250).

Third, which I've already mentioned, is "total vehicle weight." The Sport Demon rear weighs more because it's a larger tire, so it adds to the bike's all-up weight. For any given horsepower, more weight equals less acceleration (damn the inertia, Sir Issac Newton sux! or, did you buy special inertia-free Sport Demons?).

And Forth, an effect unrelated to weight, is that the larger diameter of the Sport Demon affects the overall gearing of the bike's drivetrain. So assuming the bike's horsepower is the same as it was with the old (smaller diameter) tires, the resulting longer gearing will cause slower acceleration. It's the same as changing to a larger front or rear sprocket which lowers RPM at any cruising speed but reduces the bikes ability to accelerate.

Just so you know, all that typing was not really needed. The additional weight it adds is so minimal you won't notice anything on acceleration. What you will notice is a better feel to the road and possibly a reduction from 10% incorrect speedo to about 5% incorrect (at least that's what I noticed when checking against radars). Acceleration wise however, there was no noticeable drop of any kind.

Just so you know, all that typing was not really needed.

It was cut-and-paste from a two year old post.... "just so you know" it took 30 seconds.


The additional weight it adds is so minimal you won't notice anything on acceleration.

Can this "magical thinking" be applied to all weight related issues? Do unicorns eat rainbows and poop butterflys in Orlando?


Acceleration wise however, there was no noticeable drop of any kind.

Okay, but only because you say so.


...and I forgot to include in my post that a heavier tire has more gyroscopic effect, which makes turning more difficult so the bike feels less "flickable" (unless Sombo says it doesn't).


(this is my usual response to anything that starts with "just so you know")

Without measuring the weight differences of the tires, it's hard to say what, if any, the effect would be. Pirelli's are often quite light, and assuming that they weigh significantly more, or even more at all, compared to a 130/80 Dunlop, may turn out to be much ado about nothing. I agree that they are taller, and do affect the gearing ratio, similar to adding a tooth on the front sprocket.

Here are a couple of Amazon.com sales pages. They give the item weight about midway down the page.

http://www.amazon.com/Pirelli-Sport-Demon-Bias-Touring/dp/B000GROYZO

http://www.amazon.com/Pirelli-Diablo-Scooter-Tire-1661000/dp/B000IOL61A

Just using the Diablo Scooter 130/80 16 as a comparison example.

The Diablo Scooter 130/80 16 is 11.5 pounds and the Sport Demon 130/90 16 is 14.9 pounds.

That's about 29% more weight.

What's the officially accepted percentage threshold for graduating from "much ado about nothing" to "significant"?

If those weights are accurate, it's a measurable difference. But it still won't affect performance a whit. Those tires are still mounted on identical wheels, which weigh another 20 pounds or so, making the difference 31.5 pounds to 34.9 pounds, a 9% difference in wheel + tire weight. And it's still only a nit compared to the 350 pounds + rider weight of the entire vehicle.

Nothing wrong with choosing the lighter (and more modern) tires, the scooter's are likely a great tire. But choosing the Demons is by no means a performance downgrade due to small weight differences.

Got mine from motorcyclesuperstore.com last week... quoted $140 at the dealer, and $100 at the local Hyosung dealer to mount/balance... Yowza!!! Almost 12K on the stock Dunlops though!

which weigh another 20 pounds or so, making the difference 31.5 pounds to 34.9 pounds, a 9% difference in wheel + tire weight.

I can't think of any other place on a motorcycle where adding extra weight could make more of a difference (rotating mass, gyroscopic force, unsprung weight) than on the outside of the rear tire+wheel. Like a child on a merry-go-round, being at the outside/perimeter of the motion definitely makes a difference.

Yes, when it's sitting still its just 3.4 pounds. I don't have the physics/mathematics skills (skilz?) to figure out what the effect of 3.4 extra pounds going round-and-round really fast are, but I'm thinking that the energy required to accelerate, decelerate, and overcome the centrifugal force of those extra pounds is substantially more than "3.4 pounds" would suggest.

I can't think of any other place on a motorcycle where adding extra weight could make more of a difference (rotating mass, gyroscopic force, unsprung weight) than on the outside of the rear tire+wheel. Like a child on a merry-go-round, being at the outside/perimeter of the motion definitely makes a difference.

Yes, when it's sitting still its just 3.4 pounds. I don't have the physics/mathematics skills (skilz?) to figure out what the effect of 3.4 extra pounds going round-and-round really fast are, but I'm thinking that the energy required to accelerate, decelerate, and overcome the centrifugal force of those extra pounds is substantially more than "3.4 pounds" would suggest.

How much slower do you think it would make the bike? Honestly, from 0-60 how much slower do you really think adding 3.4lbs to the tires would really make the bike? My guess is that it would not even be measurable outside of the margin of error. It is such an insignificant amount of weight; air pressure, temperature, and humidity are likely to have a greater effect.

Just to be clear for those who have joined this thread late or are pulled into oldgen tech forum due to recent merge, discussions of weight are centred around the switch to Sport Demons on the old gen, requiring a different tire size. On the a 2008+ bike, you can get the Sport Demons in precisely the stock sizes of 110/70/17 and 130/70/17. I'm aware of no weight differences on the new gen from moving to the Sport Demons from the stock IRCs, but am aware of major improvement in grip and overall performance.

It was cut-and-paste from a two year old post.... "just so you know" it took 30 seconds.




Can this "magical thinking" be applied to all weight related issues? Do unicorns eat rainbows and poop butterflys in Orlando?




Okay, but only because you say so.


...and I forgot to include in my post that a heavier tire has more gyroscopic effect, which makes turning more difficult so the bike feels less "flickable" (unless Sombo says it doesn't).


(this is my usual response to anything that starts with "just so you know")

Was it really necessary to come off sounding like a _________? You are talking a difference in acceleration that would require measuring the tenths of a second to see. Yet you are acting like "OMG don't get the demons cause you will KILL your acceleration and make it a dog of a bike compared to using X tires!!!" Overreacting and being paranoid about maybe a couple tenths of a second difference is no reason to be snippy in your post or to not get what 99% of the rest of pre-gen riders feel are the best tires available for our bikes.

My original post to this thread (#83) if you bothered to read it, was purely informational. It contained none of the things you've accused me of (overreacting, hysteria, paranoia, etc.).

It simply pointed out something that is often overlooked by people when they're buying replacement tires for their EX-250s: Some tires weigh more.

Just bringing the undeniable physics of the situation to people's attention: more weight with the same horsepower means less performance.

I bother to point it out for two reasons: #1. It's true, and #2. It's often ignored/overlooked.

When it comes to the question of who came off sounding like an _______ first. You and I are quite likely from two totally different backgrounds and generations and upbringing. In the generation/background/upbringing you're from it may be okay to start a dialogue with the words "just so you know" but to my ears it sounds like you're being an ________. I guess you didn't realize it, but Was it really necessary to come off sounding like a _________? is exactly what I thought when I read your first post (#84) to this thread.

My set of Demons have been Officialy orderd through Dennis Kirk. Got the set for $223.00 (thats including shipping)
wooohoooo!!!

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeha!

Well your reaction to "just so you know" is more of a personal issue than anything else. All people have little triggers that just set them. I wasn't being anything when I was trying to say you are over-analyzing this.

Sometimes the calculations and mathematics of physics are just not practical or necessary for normal everyday use. In this case we are talking about a factor that is negligible compared to the benefits. You roll in with a report explaining the science of something most won't ever notice in use. Therefore it just really isn't practical or needed.

If you were explaining this to a group of engineers or physicists to discuss the fractions of a second difference in performance of this tire vs that tire in a scientific or racing environment that would be different. But in this case that information is not really going to mean much to anyone for practical everyday purposes.

No one is really going to notice the difference in acceleration from the demons compared to the stock tires. They will however feel a difference in traction, grip, and cushion. These are things that are more of a concern for daily street use.

I don't know what generation/upbringing you are from, nor you I, so to bring that up is also not needed here. Saying that you personally get rubbed the wrong way by someone saying "just so you know" is better than getting snippy with them. Just so you know. :p

Sometimes the calculations and mathematics of physics are just not practical or necessary for normal everyday use.

Is there a particular time of the day/month/year when physics takes a holiday? Or do I just chant the magic words, "this is normal everyday use" and the physical laws know to look the other way for a while?


I wasn't being anything when I was trying to say you are over-analyzing this.

Textbook passive-aggressive: When somebody states facts you don't want to hear, accuse them of "over-analyzing."


They will however feel a difference in traction, grip, and cushion.

Can I have traction without grip? Or grip without traction?

And what's cushion? Yes, a bigger more balloon-like tire will absorb more bump at a given air pressure, but it's higher weight (more mass = more inertia) will cause it to work less efficiently with the suspension (It's called "unsprung weight" and keeping unsprung weight to a minimum is one of a vehicle engineer's main goals). So in the end the "cushion" factor may actually favor the slightly smaller but lighter tire that works better with the suspension design.


Sometimes the calculations and mathematics of physics are just not practical or necessary for normal everyday use. In this case we are talking about a factor that is negligible compared to the benefits. You roll in with a report explaining the science of something most won't ever notice in use. Therefore it just really isn't practical or needed.

If you were explaining this to a group of engineers or physicists to discuss the fractions of a second difference in performance of this tire vs that tire in a scientific or racing environment that would be different. But in this case that information is not really going to mean much to anyone for practical everyday purposes.

To sum up these two paragraphs: "People are stupid and have really short attention spans" and "if you add weight in small amounts you'll never notice."

The latter goes a long way to explaining the obesity epidemic (although it actually runs counter to the "goatee factor" because if guys aren't actually aware of their weight then how do they know exactly when to grow the full goatee that suggests, "I did this to my body on purpose"?)

how do they know exactly when to grow the full goatee that suggests, "I did this to my body on purpose"?)

We set up automatic alerts in Outlook. :D

Is there a particular time of the day/month/year when physics takes a holiday? Or do I just chant the magic words, "this is normal everyday use" and the physical laws know to look the other way for a while?

When the science behind something has no major affect on you daily activities from day to day then it's not practical or necessary to sit there and do the math over it. You don't need to go to a store with scientific measuring equipment to see the exact size, weight, balance of something and then do a multistage equation to figure out the exact fraction of a second it's going to change something. Do you sit there and do that with every single purchase or decision in your life? If so, then you are over-analyzing things. Just go out and live life.


Textbook passive-aggressive: When somebody states facts you don't want to hear, accuse them of "over-analyzing."

That's not textbook passive-aggressive. It's being blunt, you're over-analyzing this, as in you're thinking too much about something so small.


Can I have traction without grip? Or grip without traction?

Sorry if using such similar terms is confusing. Let me try to explain what I meant. In tires (especially motorcycle tires) you have to worry about how well they hold to the road under both straight line performance and in the corners. Believe it or not one tire can be better in the corners yet worse in the straights in terms of grip/traction as another tire. It comes down to a lot of different factors, but in the end, not all tires are made the same and for the same purposes.

And what's cushion? Yes, a bigger more balloon-like tire will absorb more bump at a given air pressure, but it's higher weight (more mass = more inertia) will cause it to work less efficiently with the suspension (It's called "unsprung weight" and keeping unsprung weight to a minimum is one of a vehicle engineer's main goals). So in the end the "cushion" factor may actually favor the slightly smaller but lighter tire that works better with the suspension design.

There's more to cushion than just being larger. You also have to look at the shape, blend of rubber, the materials used to reinforce it and the style in which those layers are constructed. You can have a larger tire that's stiffer than a smaller because of the construction of the tire. Ever see all those reports of how the IIRC's feel like wood or rock and another tire of the exact same size feels so much better, softer, gives more, absorbs more, and makes better contact with the road because more of the tire surface is touching it?

To sum up these two paragraphs: "People are stupid and have really short attention spans" and "if you add weight in small amounts you'll never notice."

The latter goes a long way to explaining the obesity epidemic (although it actually runs counter to the "goatee factor" because if guys aren't actually aware of their weight then how do they know exactly when to grow the full goatee that suggests, "I did this to my body on purpose"?)

This shows that you just have a really bad outlook on people and disdain those that don't analyze things as crucially as you do. How about you stop being passive-aggressive and calling anyone that doesn't think or act like you as stupid, lazy, and having short attention spans. Does calling a majority of the world (including most on this forum) those things make you feel better about yourself? If so, then that is textbook passive-aggressive.

Don't wear gear as the added weight and size is going to affect your acceleration. You should also shave off all body hair as it will catch the wind and slow you down. Also be sure to cut off all of those little rubber nipples on your tires as they add weight and catch wind.

:beatdeadhorse:

Don't wear gear as the added weight and size is going to affect your acceleration. You should also shave off all body hair as it will catch the wind and slow you down. Also be sure to cut off all of those little rubber nipples on your tires as they add weight and catch wind.


:rotflmao:

I love this response. :thumbup:


Yes alex, I know, I get it and I'm quite done for I have said all I need to say. :cool:

Yes alex, I know, I get it and I'm quite done for I have said all I need to say.

Let's test your resolve....

Sorry Alex, I just can't help myself when I hook into somebody who can best be described as "pseudo-right", who needs no actual facts to argue a position and can't or won't stay "on topic."

Nothing in the world is more dangerous than self imposed ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Let's test your resolve....

Sorry Alex, I just can't help myself when I hook into somebody who can best be described as "pseudo-right", who needs no actual facts to argue a position and can't or won't stay "on topic."

Nothing in the world is more dangerous than self imposed ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b276/seanvoight/122235364834231.png

As amusing as I find this to have become, and I've laughed more than once reading through this, I'm going against the general consensus in saying that there is weight...errmm...merit to Greg's POV. If we were talking about a car, then the added weight of wider tires would amount to molehills. According to my title, my bike weighs 304 dry. I am now without front fairings and cowl, so without having the specs in front of me, I'm guessing that I may have dropped below 300. But whatever. The point is, that someone who is so concerned with performance down to the smallest degree would have to factor in the weight difference of any changes made outside the scope of the engineers' design. An inch of variance over a mile may be insignificant, but an inch per foot is a different story. Just my $.02....
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According to my title, my bike weighs 304 dry.

What do mean "title"? The GVWR is the weight rating that the bike can handle; not the actual weight of the bike itself. Pregen's are about 340 pounds without fuel. New-gens are about 370 pounds without fuel.

Well, unless it was entered wrong 10 years ago, my title of ownership shows 304lbs. This number is retrieved from the certificate of origin issued by the factory. Just reporting what the DMV tells me. ;p
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Yeah, it's wrong. :)

The "dry weight" of motorcycles has been a joke for decades. Some manufacturers are being a bit more honest in their numbers recently (Honda is a good example), but that is not the norm. Your bike doesn't weight 304 pounds, sorry. (unless 30+ pounds of weight has been removed from it).

Some folks believe that the old dry weight numbers came from the manufacturers adding up the nominal weight of each and every part that makes up the machine, and with an error margin on each one, the total is always significantly under the real-world number. Others believe more simply that manufacturers lie.

Well, considering that I don't have the stock mufflers, just chopped cans, the rear footpegs and associated mounting hardware are MIA, I think its quite reasonable that one of the PO's may have submitted an updated weight certificate justifying a difference of 35lbs from stock. Not to poke holes, just letting you know. LOL. NY determines the registration fee by the weight of the vehicle. I know that's true for cars, but not sure about motorcycles. But its possible the person that did this assumed that it may lower the reg fee. I can't say for sure.

As far as dry weight, tho, I always assumed it was the weight of the vehicle minus gas, and fluids (coolant, oil, etc).
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As far as dry weight, tho, I always assumed it was the weight of the vehicle minus gas, and fluids (coolant, oil, etc).

That would be logical, but it's not the case. The listed dry weight + the weight of the fluids rarely comes close to the actual weight of the bike. Best way for comparison has always been the multi-bike tests in SportRider, Bike, and similar mags where competing bikes are weighed on the same scale, under the same conditions, with a similar fuel load.

I wish I still worked at my old job. They had a big scale they used to weigh pallets of mail and supplies. I'd ride my bike right up to it and weigh it. Cuz now I'm curious what it does weigh.

But back to topic, 3.4 pounds of difference would amount to 1% a (stock) ninjette's weight. I still agree that should amount to something.
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But back to topic, 3.4 pounds of difference would amount to 1% a (stock) ninjette's weight. I still agree that should amount to something.

Is the rider on this bike when it is attempting to accelerate? :)

Man, you guys are like my ex-wife! If the details don't validate you're POV, they're irrelevant! XD
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Man, you guys are like my ex-wife! If the details don't validate you're POV, they're irrelevant! XD
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No one here is arguing that adding weight to the bike won't negatively impact performance. But changing the bikes total weight by less than 1% isn't going to amount to any noticeable change in acceleration, stopping distance, nor miles per gallon.

FWIW, other tire sites also are listing similar weight differences between the Demons and the Diablo's, so the 3+ pound weight difference on the rear tire does appear to be accurate (or at least repeated).

Okay, I'll use me as an example. I'm about 230. My bike is 304. So 534. Add some gas and stuff, let's just use 550 lbs. I need 2 tires, BTW, so let's add twice the tire weight. For simplicity. Well, that still works out to about 1%.

Either way, I think some may have glossed over what Greg was trying to point out, that these are not static items on the bike like tank bags or something. These parts are moving parts. Spinning in a circle. I've noticed that my front end tends to hop a bit and I'd attribute that to the fact that my front tire is a 90-aspect ratio tire, instead of the stock 80 that the engineers designed the front suspension around. Who really knows if that's the reason or not, but seems valid enough to me that I'm looking to get the MT75s because they come in the stock size. I'm not really arguing anything. Just trying to put some validity into the POV. If you're just the average street rider, then probably not a big deal. If you're a racer, then something to be considered.
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Just had my demons installed, should I run the same pressure as the 630's? just curious

Im going with yes, but just wondering. Im running 28psi in front and 32 at the rear

I need 2 tires, BTW, so let's add twice the tire weight. For simplicity.

Right, but the front tires don't have that weight difference. It's only the rear with a noticeable difference in this case.

If you're just the average street rider, then probably not a big deal. If you're a racer, then something to be considered.


Agreed in full. :thumbup: When ounces matter, when inches matter, when you're trying to get every advantage over your peers and competitors, all of this matters. Even then, it makes sense to concentrate on those things that make the biggest difference and work your way down the list until you run out of money or time.

But on the street, there are so many additional factors that also play a part in tire selection (steering feel, mileage, sizes available, availability, cost, and likely a few more). Weight may in fact be another factor along with this. Just to clarify my POV, I guess I reacted initially to posts implying that anyone who chose a slightly heavier tire was making the wrong decision. I don't believe that to be the case, and we went down the path of why I believe that.

It's all good. Choose the tires you want, for any reasons you want, and the only person each of us has to justify our reasons to is ourselves anyway.

Im going with yes, but just wondering. Im running 28psi in front and 32 at the rear

There is some official Pirelli fitment guide going around that states the proper pressures for the Demons on the pre-gen ninjette to be 32f/36r. It surprised me when I saw it, and perhaps someone can post a link to it here as well if they find it again before me.

EDIT: Here is that thread (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76843) with the Pirelli fitment guide.

Thanks Alex, I went out for a nice night ride with bdavison last night. One word, WOW. I love these tires. Wish I would of made the change a while back. Feels like a different bike, I kept pushing the lean angle and not once did the rear feel sketchy. Im sold on these.

I ran 30psi in the front and 34 in the rear

Im going to hop on it in a few and try the 32f/42r and see how it feels. Seems high for the rear though

Definitely not 42 rear. 36 rear at most.

If it's any help, I run my BT45's (same sizes as the sport deamons) at 32F/36R

Definitely not 42 rear. 36 rear at most.
:thumbup:

Your right, Way to much pressure. It brounght it down to 30f/35r after 5miles. Did I mention that I love these tires. hehe