I use 87 octane gas. It is what is recommended for my 08 250R.

I run 87 octane too. I don't know for sure whether it's reccommended in pregens, but I'm a cheap son-of-a-gun, so I buy what's cheaper! Runs great, so I don't think it's a problem. :D

87 is what is recommended for the pregens, too.

I always run 87. I tried running premium in the past and found that my gas mileage sufferd and performance did not improve.

Ok. Really quick qestion then: Why do all the new bikes have stickers that say use 90+ octane to keep from causing severe damage to the engine? I noticed that while checking some things on an 09 here. Is it just a trick to make you pay more for gas?

where are the stickers located and is it a factory Kawasaki sticker or something the dealer had printed up?

I don't know if it's just from the dealer or not. It's right on top of the tank, just below the gas tank. It says "Important - Use only 90+ octane gasoline to avoid causing serious damage to engine." I thought it was full of crap, but wanted to make sure. I guess it could be a dealership thing? I know I saw it on all of the new Kawi bikes, but I didn't check the Suzuki or Honda (it's a 3 brand dealership).

I run 87 too. Recommended for the Ninjette, plus I've read that unless you get knocking (on any vehicle, even one which recommends higher), there's no point going higher.

I don't know if it's just from the dealer or not. It's right on top of the tank, just below the gas tank. It says "Important - Use only 90+ octane gasoline to avoid causing serious damage to engine."

did you read closer to see if it said 90+ octane RON or PON?

http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html

if it's 90+ RON, that's the same as our US gas 87 octane PON.

I use 87 octane on mine from either chevron, shell, or exxonmobil. Don't really see the point on using higher octane unless I have a turbo on my bike lol.

Hmm, I don't see the sticker requiring 90+ octane on mine, but I have seen that sticker on other bikes especially the high performance super sport bikes.

I don't know if it's just from the dealer or not. It's right on top of the tank, just below the gas tank. It says "Important - Use only 90+ octane gasoline to avoid causing serious damage to engine." I thought it was full of crap, but wanted to make sure. I guess it could be a dealership thing? I know I saw it on all of the new Kawi bikes, but I didn't check the Suzuki or Honda (it's a 3 brand dealership).

Can you grab a picture of the sticker. I just got my '09 in Feb and there is NO sticker as you've described.

And I feed her 87 :)

I might be able to get a pic. I don't actually have a camera at the moment though. I'd have to borrow someone else's (which is what I do for any pics I'll have unless I get them off the internet). I'll see what I can do.

Baby ninja gets 93. I fill up the R1 & just hand the nozzle over :p

bah... fill up the ninja first, then fill the R1 w/ 87. :D

I use 91 occasionally I guess just to help clean the engine. Probably doesn't do anything but eh, it's Costco 91 so it's about the same price between 87 & 89 at regular stations

I use 91 occasionally I guess just to help clean the engine.
you are correct, it does do that, but so does the 87 & 89. :)

Costco 87 it is from now on then :D, unless I hear some knocking I guess :rolleyes:

yes, knocking is the "litmus" test.

not saying not to use the higher octane, but there is no benefit for our bikes other than lightening your wallet. save your money for some cool mods, instead... or synthetic oil. :D

I have read high and low about what gas to use in the 250 and the average is 87 octane. I hear running a higher octane makes the motor run to rich. In reality higher octane gas burns at a higher temp which could change certain characteristics of the motor. In my car however I run Prem. octane in it, and car motors are usually more refined and controlled, I notice it idle smoother and has quicker pick up.

GTsmokeya

I use 91 occasionally I guess just to help clean the engine. Probably doesn't do anything but eh, it's Costco 91 so it's about the same price between 87 & 89 at regular stations


If the engine is tuned to run on regular you won't benefit from using premium. In a nutsell the higher the octane the slower it ignites so when your piston moves up to Top Dead Center (TDC) for combustion, using premium fuel may reduce power and fuel economy- unless you advance timing and/or increase compression via taller pistons.

bah... fill up the ninja first, then fill the R1 w/ 87. :D

Little ninja is 11.5:1, it can have the 93 :)

i have always filled up with premium...just looked at the label information in the owners manual....it says Gasoline With Reasearch No. (RON) 91 Min.

so this is normal 87 yes?

i have always filled up with premium...just looked at the label information in the owners manual....it says Gasoline With Reasearch No. (RON) 91 Min.

so this is normal 87 yes?

yes, same as US market 87.

just looked in owners manual again...under gas tanks section...says use 87 MINIMUM....so would there be no harm in using higher?

nope... no benefits, either.

87 Octane, as recommended. No knocking.

Some of you guys should read this about Octane.
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_kind_of_fuel_should_I_use%3F

Shell 87 all the time. Though I've dumped in some v-power into the 06 when it was hesitating and needed some cleaning :D

87 too!

Chevron 87. No need for anything higher.

I use 87 also, since that's what the manual commands.

I read in Rider this month that at altitude you'll sometimes find 85.5 (Eastern MT in particular), but that it behaves the same as 87 because of the altitude... Not that I plan on being above 10,000 feet anytime soon, but anyone know if there's any truth to that?

Yeah. I don't have first hand experience, but I read that gas stations up high will sell you that.

I'm not sure if the higher octane is what caused backfiring in my bike, but since I started using 87 octane regular, I have had no problems. I use Chevron regular.

coincidence... as I've always used regular and mine still backfires on occasion.

Shell 87 all the time. Though I've dumped in some v-power into the 06 when it was hesitating and needed some cleaning :D

Shell because it's better or for the Airmiles? :D

I just use 87. I used higher octane to fill out once but then thought to myself, why? Lol.

I'm not sure if the higher octane is what caused backfiring in my bike, but since I started using 87 octane regular, I have had no problems. I use Chevron regular.

Im thinking the backfires from the higher octane in the bike was unburned fuel...

87 will give more HP than 91, as long as there aren't detonation issues. I run 87 in all the racebikes. 87 FTW!!!!!

coincidence... as I've always used regular and mine still backfires on occasion.

I'm sure you're right...but why take chances?? :D

87 will give more HP than 91, as long as there aren't detonation issues. I run 87 in all the racebikes. 87 FTW!!!!!

hey, Rich... you have a few bikes.:D Do they backfire on occasion when starting up?

Shell because it's better or for the Airmiles? :D

Maybe because it is considered "Top Tier" as are all of these:

QuikTrip
Chevron
Texaco
MFA Oil Co.
Conoco
Phillips 66
76
Entec Stations
Shell
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Co.
Turkey Hill Minit Markets
Mileage Stations
Chevron Canada
Shell Canada
Petro-Canada
Sunoco Canada

More Info. (http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html)

I have always used 87 in the ninjette.

I use 91 in mine. To me, the money isn't that big of a deal. If 91 is $.10 more than 87, then we're talking about less than $.50 extra a fill-up. So, in a month, I end up spending less that $2 more for 91 and I don't have to worry about knocking. Just my line of thinking...

I So, in a month, I end up spending less that $2 more for 91 and I don't have to worry about knocking.

it won't knock with 87, either. :)

you tell them...

Ok so basically 87 makes sense to use. But, do you think brand really matters?

as long as it's a Top Tier gas, as was posted by Ryan, you should be fine. Not saying other gas brands are not good, but at least the Top Tier gases meet some sort of standard to be graded. With others, you might not know exactly what you are getting.

as far as brands between the top tier ones, personal preference.

I use Chevron because the local station that sells that brand, still comes out and pumps the gas for you. :thumbup: How often do you see that now days?:D

I use Chevron because the local station that sells that brand, still comes out and pumps the gas for you. :thumbup: How often do you see that now days?:D

Haha, here in Cali.. NEVER! But up in Oregon, it's the law to have full service.. you cannot pump your own gas. But yes, it is a nice thing :)

Same in NJ, but I think they let bikers do it themselves, at least I've heard.

Haha, here in Cali.. NEVER! But up in Oregon, it's the law to have full service.. you cannot pump your own gas.

LOL..... Thats what I was just thinking too :)

I use 87 99% of the time and sometimes use 93 if the bike has to sit in the garage for over a week or so.

I run 91 although there is no reason for me to do so. Just makes me feel warm and fuzzy. :confused:

hey, Rich... you have a few bikes.:D Do they backfire on occasion when starting up?

Weird..... happened last weekend for the first time on one of em. First time ever.

87 here, of course.

I only put BP gas in mine as it's the only station that doesn't have that ethanol junk in it.

Engine life and reliability is important to me, so I run Shell 91. Lower octane gas is better for performance, though. Quality runs the same at all levels.

engine life and reliability wont be any better with the 91 lol well maybe reliability cuz the gas wont gum up on your valves as much as cheap gas
but engine life will be almost exactly the same with 91, 89, or 87

Mine gets RON 95 the lowest available in Switzerland.

Steve

No 93 today! The Department of Agriculture says its illegal, its impounded by the state of Florida. Tag didn't say why, just thought it was kinda funny :)

Good thing I was in the truck :p

Well that sucks. My car is tuned for 93. Is this just at that station, or the entire state?

^ Just went by the one station today. Went out to grab a subway, thought I better get some gas to pick the wife up from the airport tonight. They had the 93 handles covered up. I noticed the bottom of a tag, so I tore the bag up a bit to see.

You talking about your camaro runs on 93. Mine too, have the initial back to 1 for total of 34deg advance. Noticed along time ago with the knock sensor disconnected from the ESC module, the car would really fly. This new block didnt have spot for the knock sensor anyway.

WOW! i thought all bikes had to get premium! so if i just switch to 87 today there will not be any problems? okay, i just have to program my mind to 87 now and not 91. im glad i decided to click on this thread lol, I seriously thought motors on bikes needed fine filtered high octane petroleum (I learned something new today :cool:)

Can you grab a picture of the sticker. I just got my '09 in Feb and there is NO sticker as you've described.

And I feed her 87 :)

Finally got a pic of the sticker:

1315

thanks for the pic. do you know if the dealer puts that sticker on or does it come from the manufacturer that way? if from the manufacturer, something has changed. if from the dealer, they are incorrect.

my 08 calls for 91RON which is 87 PON (ron+mon/2).

Finally got a pic of the sticker:

1315

Where is that sticker exactly? I'll go have a look if it's underneath, but I haven't noticed anything elsewhere.

Where is that sticker exactly? I'll go have a look if it's underneath, but I haven't noticed anything elsewhere.

from his earlier post in this thread...

I don't know if it's just from the dealer or not. It's right on top of the tank, just below the gas tank. It says "Important - Use only 90+ octane gasoline to avoid causing serious damage to engine." I thought it was full of crap, but wanted to make sure. I guess it could be a dealership thing? I know I saw it on all of the new Kawi bikes, but I didn't check the Suzuki or Honda (it's a 3 brand dealership).

from his earlier post in this thread...

lol but he confused me - its on top of the tank, below the tank... and if it is, in fact, underneath I figured it'd be hard for him to see on a new-gen and even harder to take a pic of it :rolleyes:

but I'll have my tank off sometime this week to shim, so I'll double-check mine.

the octane requirement sticker is on the bottom of the passenger seat on my 08.

I'm suprised to see shell-canada in the top tier companies. I only use 91 in all my vehicle and had ****** gas mileage when i used shell once. Esso in canada is the gas that i will get the best mileage.

more likely the station than the gas brand.

our bikes don't require more than 87 octane PON.

I run 87 octane right now without any ping, but next month our fuel blend changes to what is run in California. So at that point I will have to switch to 91, otherwise I will get ping when the heat sets in. Its happened on every bike I have owned in AZ in the last 5 years.

lol but he confused me - its on top of the tank, below the tank... and if it is, in fact, underneath I figured it'd be hard for him to see on a new-gen and even harder to take a pic of it :rolleyes:

but I'll have my tank off sometime this week to shim, so I'll double-check mine.

Hehehe.... yeah that was my bad! I meant to say "it's right on top of the tank, inbetween the gas cap and the seat." Apparently I was asleep when I wrote that the first time. :rolleyes: I have no idea who puts those stickers on. But I won't worry too much about it. My bike is fine so far! :D

I run 87 octane right now without any ping, but next month our fuel blend changes to what is run in California. So at that point I will have to switch to 91, otherwise I will get ping when the heat sets in. Its happened on every bike I have owned in AZ in the last 5 years.

you mean a 10% ethanol blend? We've had that here for awhile and all the 250s here are running on it fine.

Hehehe.... yeah that was my bad! I meant to say "it's right on top of the tank, inbetween the gas cap and the seat." Apparently I was asleep when I wrote that the first time. :rolleyes: I have no idea who puts those stickers on. But I won't worry too much about it. My bike is fine so far! :D

gotcha lol. Maybe the tech just stuck it on the wrong bike lol. It wouldn't be the first time it was mistaken for a bigger bike :D

Ok. Really quick qestion then: Why do all the new bikes have stickers that say use 90+ octane to keep from causing severe damage to the engine? I noticed that while checking some things on an 09 here. Is it just a trick to make you pay more for gas?
I think I found that sticker too, under the seat methinks? Been a while since I saw it, but it is indeed RON, which is the US equivalent of 87.

Putting anything higher than the recommended grade in your vehicle is a waste. 91 octane isn't really "premium" in the sense that it's better than 87 octane. 91 octane is simply more resistant to detonation so the engine can run a higher compression (resulting in more power) without causing premature, compression ignition (knock). Light 87 octane with a spark and it does the same thing as 91 octane lit with a spark.

Some vehicles work on multiple octane fuels, detecting the octane of whatever you put in it and adjusting the compression to allow more power output with the higher octane gas. Our bikes don't do that. Put 91 in our bikes and the engine burns it exactly the same as 87.

What if I've always used 91 or 93 octane and switched back to 87? So I will get better gas and performance? I never knew I figured to put higher octane for the better. Perhaps I was wrong?

you only need as much octane as the engine was designed for. In our bikes, it was designed for 87. Putting a higher octane gas does not improve the bike's performance in any way.

thanks! 87 it is! save $

:thumbup:

I use 87 Shell. The bike performs well. Tried 91 and noticed no difference.

hmm interesting! i always thought it needed 91. well, 87 it is lol

Its not the octane number that matters for performance. I run 92 no alcohol gas. I can get it nearby that is alcohol free. Sometimes I find 87 no alcohol and Ill burn that. The ethonol is what kills performance and mileage.(just a little bit) Straight gas is the ticket. It takes roughly 30% more ethonal to get you down the road per gallon. Thats why cars that are run on E-85 get crap for mileage.

Welp I decided to start using 91 octane gas. I have unlimited money so I also only use Evian sparkling water in my toilet and I make sure that I drop fresh air freshners into my garbage bags right before I seal them and put them outside in the trash (so if/when they break it doesn't make bad odors inside the garbage truck). :rolleyes:

I never get why such simple premises like octane can really cause debates. People tie higher octane gas for "high performance" engines together and assume that it's the gas that's doing it. When in reality octane has nothing to do with performance. Nothing. nadda. zip (in reality it can actually hurt performance). If you go to the track and spend $7/gal for some 114 octane gas guess what you should expect? You'll burn your 02 sensor out (on your car) and not gain a single horsepower. Octane is a measurement of detonation resistance and that is IT. Higher combustion chamber pressures (from perhaps a super/turbo charger or domed pistons) present greater risk towards detonation and need more detonation resistant fuel. It'd be like a firefighter showing up and putting out a duraflame log with a fire hose. Sure it works, but it's way overkill.

Wow TJ, the garbage men that take your garbage must love you for that :)

:bump:

coincidence... as I've always used regular and mine still backfires on occasion.

ditto,

also, I am a cheap skate, the owners manual recommends 87, so that is what I use

nb

I run 87 because it is what is recommended for the 250. I usually fill up at BP but one time I filled up at a mom and pops store and the bike didn't run right. So now I use BP or QuikTrip.

My 2009 European fuel injection model's manual says I should use a minimum of RON 91. Since RON 95 isn't more expensive here than the slightly lower stuff, I've always used 95.

Since RON 95 isn't more expensive here than the slightly lower stuff, I've always used 95.

if they are priced the same, why do they even bother selling the 91? :)

if they are priced the same, why do they even bother selling the 91? :)

No idea. :p Maybe some older vehicles like the RON 90 stuff a bit more or something.

My 2009 European fuel injection model's manual says I should use a minimum of RON 91. Since RON 95 isn't more expensive here than the slightly lower stuff, I've always used 95.

Here the lowest octane available is 95.

I asked this in another Thread , but I'll bring it up here as well ...

I've heard other riders say that using 91 instead of 87 makes them get better gas mileage ... anyone know the real truth to this?
Anyone I've asked just says 'about 5 mpg better' but I've seen no real proof ...

Since the speedway is right next to the airport I have a hard time deciding where to get my fuel. I decided on the av fuel because it makes the bike fly.

I've heard other riders say that using 91 instead of 87 makes them get better gas mileage ... anyone know the real truth to this?
Anyone I've asked just says 'about 5 mpg better' but I've seen no real proof ...

No truth to it.

That's what I figured , that it was all talk ... thanks for confirming it Alex :)

87 octane is better than 91 in almost every way other than preventing "pre-ignition" or "engine knocking." This is when the cumbustion chamber ignites before the piston reaches near Top Dead Center (depending on degrees of timing). So, the higher octane is less explosive so prevent "pre-ignition."

~End of Purspeed's Lesson of the Day.

I'm pretty sure I found a warning sticker like that on my bike as well, but it wasn't on the gas tank... I think it was hiden under one of the side fairings, I'll take a look later, but if i recall right it was asking for 91 octane specifically (not that im argueing that it's better in any way)

I used 87 octane and the occasional additive,
http://www.0-60mag.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/22oznos-wcap.jpg



:) too soon?

you might want to think of removing that. if one person made that mistake ( if ), others could do it too. I don't want those others to be from this board due to your post.

I'm fine with it. You can't fix stupid, and as well-meaning as this forum is, it certainly isn't going to stamp it out worldwide. It says energy drink on it, for crissakes. :)

I used 87 octane and the occasional additive,
http://www.0-60mag.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/22oznos-wcap.jpg



:) too soon?


That's a suppository right?

85 up here in the Wasatch Mountains seems to work without any problems.

on a side note related to fuel, has anyone had any issues with the new shorter gas nozzles when filling up? I have so went to another gas statiion with longer ones

Is there a difference in octane?

A brief description of "Octane".

Octanes primary function in gasoline used in internal combustion engines is to inhibit the combustibility of the fuel. Yes you read that right, the higher the octane the less explosive your gas is. There is a legitimate reason you want this to occur, I'll get to that in a later paragraph.

First off I would like to touch lightly on the "cleanliness" topic. There certainly is a difference in gasoline cleanliness from different refiners. There is not however any difference in two different octane rated petrols from the same manufacturer, though their marketing team will tell you otherwise! Shell 87 is just as clean as shell 93 they just have different amounts of octane.

Ok now for the technical issues.

Engines produce heat in many ways: combusting fuel, friction, spark, compression (which is just friction in air but for our purposes we'll label it separate). Gasoline in your engine is "told" to explode by the timing of the spark sent through your spark plug. In extreme heat situations the heat inside your engine can cause the fuel to flash before the spark tells it too. This is bad! This is what is called "spark knock". the knock you're hearing is from gas exploding before the piston is at (or near) Top Dead Center(TDC). Enter Octane. By making the gas less explosive the heat in the engine will no longer cause the fuel to ignite prematurely. Thus the spark plug can accurately time the explosion.

What Octane rating should you run? Well the ultimate decision is up to you. However, if you test it you should find that you will get optimal performance as well as mileage by using the manufacturers recommended minimum octane rating. Any higher and your losing explosiveness and power, any lower and you risk spark knock and severe engine damage.

Some bikes/cars etc. require a higher rated fuel. This can be for many reason but all of them have to do with more heat in the combustion chamber. For example: Boosted engines (turbo/supercharged), high compression engines, high RPM engines and many others.

Q&A:

Q: Can you hurt an engine by running too high an octane rating?
A: No.

Q: Can you hurt an engine by using too low an octane rating?
A: Definitely yes! And you can not go by listening for spark knock as highly damaging preignition (detonation/spark knock) can occur at levels too low for you to notice. Especially with wind and exhaust noise!



Thank you for your time,
Tyler

P.S. don't take my word for it, do some research! :)

I put 87 on it cause it dont need anything more plus I bought my bike to save gas!!

My car does about 18.5 MPG and has 1100% (NOT a TYPO) more horse power haha!

Well I plan on jsut using shell because I just found out most all HI gas stations use ethenol. BLAH.....that is a giant rip off. I have found a shell in Honolulu (about a 20 min drive from my house) that DOESNT use that god awful excuse for getting of foreign oil (Thanks a lot Loves Corn so Much I Would Probibly Pleasure Myself with it Association of America LCSMIWPPMWIAA for short). Honestly it is almost as bad as the corn syrup commercials

Corn Propaganda (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVsgXPt564Q&NR=1)

As far as octane rating goes (as I am sure that it has been noted on here) has little to do with cleaning your engine, but the additives do. Great post on octane info. Also IF this bike were FI would it act like a car (that changes timing according to gas)??

ever since this thread I've only been using 87.

just filled up about 30 min ago at Costo.

3.78 gallons for $10.20 here in CA. I went 205 miles.

so guess that equates to getting 54.23 MPG after mixed city and hwy riding, with some hard acceleration in the twisties as well

I just use 87. Increasing octane yields a power loss on our tiny motors. The only way I'd upgrade to 89 would be to beat some knocking. I may dump 89 in the bike when I hit the track on the 25th just to be sure I won't detonate. It is going to be a hot one that day!

Welcome Tyler!

Wawa 87. Gives me better gas mileage than anything else around here. The bonus is it's usually 6-10 cents a gallon cheaper, too!

I run 87. There's no reason to run any higher octane than needed, especially since the current method of boosting octane is by adding ethanol. Therefore, higher octane gas has more ethanol. And it seems to be pretty much generally accepted that ethanol is not the best thing for your engine.

Welcome Tyler!

Thank you.

I've been running premium (93 octane) in my bike. I read the sticker under the passenger seat and saw it said 91, but didn't notice it was RON and not the US method.

Is the sticker under the passenger seat a new thing? It answers a lot of questions that I see threads about. :)

87, though i should run higher as my ride is red

87, though i should run higher as my ride is red
Your bike is red? I think you need to run 75. :D

if they are priced the same, why do they even bother selling the 91? :)

Here the lowest octane available is 95.

Mine gets RON 95 the lowest available in Switzerland.

Steve

They don't bother in Ireland, the lowest I can find is 95, and the highest I can find is 95. (could get 98 a couple of years ago). All I need now is the ninja to put it into, so many bloody forms to fill in :o

I'm suprised to see shell-canada in the top tier companies. I only use 91 in all my vehicle and had ****** gas mileage when i used shell once. Esso in canada is the gas that i will get the best mileage.

I used to use esso in my fuel injected cars and it was crap, then i switch to shell and it was better, then shell v-power and it was much smoother to drive and i got more distance out of a tank of v-power.

In the last couple of years, Shell sold out there retail stores and seem to want to just make the fuel to sell to the gas stations. I think quality is falling as the stations want cheaper product to sell (more margin for them).

On my current FI car, Shell 95 runs like dirt, Esso 95 runs like rocket fuel, so thats what i use now.

Anyway I have a question! about Carb Vs FI in relation to fuel
On my fuel injected cars, the car has an air mass sensor, a lambada(spelling?) and exhaust gas sensors. The ECU (engine control unit) of the car can apparently use all that data to slightly tune the fuel delivery based on the performance of the fuel as its running. So when I change from a tank of shell to esso, i get an immediate boost in performance until I've driven about 10 mins then the car tones it back down again. This is all the the name of less emmisions and longer engine life. Most small engine euro cars demand a minimum of 95 ron anyway. I believe a performance car with a small engine like the latest EVO demands 105 ron.

Does anyone know if the fuel injected 250 has similar smart engine management. 95 may be a requirement but i go up a level when i can just in case the engine run a bit hot from time to time. Sure its a couple more pennies at the pumps but it works out cheaper than if you engine runs a bit hot and starts knocking. At the time I could get 98 it was like €1.10 for a litre of 95 and €1.15 for a litre of 98 vpower. Over a 60 litre tank in my car that means it cost me €3 extra, but i reckon it was worth it for the extra mileage I got out of the tank.

I can see why its pointless to go up on a carb'd bike unless your going to tune it to the fuel. On an FI system (a smart one) it should pretty much tune itself (within some parameters). Obviously its going to keep the operating temperature the same at all costs.

Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor

The sensors that you are talking about in a car are used sense stoichiometric air fuel ratio. It will use this data to adjust the mixture either more rich or more lean. It can not adjust spark timing to cut down on knocking. Many more modern cars will have Knock Sensors built into the block to detect spark knock. They can use this data to adjust the spark timing and decrease the detonation. However they do not have the ability to adjust far enough to account for a drastic change in octane. It is still best to run the manufacturers recommended minimum rated fuel.

Fuel injected bikes are, with few exception, entirely different animals. Most all FI bikes do not have O2 sensors in the exhaust and cannot adjust their air fuel mixture. They run on set ratios that are programmed in the ECM by the manufacturer. Some very large and pricey bikes do have the ability to adjust the ratio on the fly ie: Goldwing. No bikes that I am aware of use a knock sensor to detect preignition.

As for carbureted vehicles, bike, car or even lawn mower. You are correct, they can not adjust for anything automatically.

Thank you for your time,
Tyler

Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor

The sensors that you are talking about in a car are used sense stoichiometric air fuel ratio. It will use this data to adjust the mixture either more rich or more lean. It can not adjust spark timing to cut down on knocking. Many more modern cars will have Knock Sensors built into the block to detect spark knock. They can use this data to adjust the spark timing and decrease the detonation. However they do not have the ability to adjust far enough to account for a drastic change in octane. It is still best to run the manufacturers recommended minimum rated fuel.

Fuel injected bikes are, with few exception, entirely different animals. Most all FI bikes do not have O2 sensors in the exhaust and cannot adjust their air fuel mixture. They run on set ratios that are programmed in the ECM by the manufacturer. Some very large and pricey bikes do have the ability to adjust the ratio on the fly ie: Goldwing. No bikes that I am aware of use a knock sensor to detect preignition.

As for carbureted vehicles, bike, car or even lawn mower. You are correct, they can not adjust for anything automatically.

Thank you for your time,
Tyler

Thanks :thumbup:

More and more bikes are coming with O2 sensors that allow closed-loop fuel injection. Almost all BMW's, both their boxers and inlines, many Hondas, including the VFR, and a number of bikes from other manufacturers as well. It was rare 10 years ago, but it's getting less and less rare.

91 , why not

To Mo1981 - and all the others using anything higher than 87 -
You would see your line of thinking is flawed if you had no knocking with the 87, and if you got an extra 1-2 mpg, you'd save even more money. The bike is designed for 87, no reason for 91, you're losing gas mileage, power, and money all at the same time. Don't try and second guess the Kawi engineers and think you are doing anything to better your engine with 91 octane.

I just use 87 octane. I only buy gas from stations that are busy, I figure that the gas has not been sitting as long. I don't know if its any better, but I'm sure it's not worse. I also don't buy gas when the tanker truck is filling up the underground tanks, I read somewhere that it stirs up all the crap at the bottom of the tanks, and it can get into your gas tank.

http://imstartintofeelit.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/nos_energy_grape.jpg

The grape flavor give extra HP

Don't know if you guys have it over there, but I use Shell V-Power. $2x for a full tank, don't mind the extra $1-2 for better fuel.

I run 85 because the altitude here is about 5000 ft above sea level... but this is what the bike says on the inside of the fairing:

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll83/Roostre_photo/Ninja%20250/Specssticker.jpg

:rolleyes:

Maybe on a hot dry day near the coast...if it started pinging! (This does have California emissions for some reason.):eek:

It's a misleading sticker, as the US does not use RON. We use RON+MON/2. 91 RON works out to roughly 87 RON+MON/2, as MON is typically about 7 - 10 points less. Look at the Octane number details on any pump, and somewhere in the fine print it will show that RON+MON/2 formula. It's not an exact science, and the particular fuel blends matter, but that sticker should not be read to mean that our bikes, pre-gen or current-gen, require premium gas here in the US.

Nice explanation!

I did not know that.

So actually in the US we could run 81- 83 octane and be fine!! Wow.

i run 93 in mine because of the high compression, i figured running anything lower would cause pre-detonation. i may be thinking old school tho

i run 93 in mine because of the high compression, i figured running anything lower would cause pre-detonation. i may be thinking old school tho

The compression isnt actually high. Your actually just wasting cash because 87 octane wont cause pre-detonation. Infact 93 octane is slowing down ignition and your probably losing a slight amount of power.

this seems like the right thread for this question: how does altitude change fuel requirements? if i'm on a road trip, how do i choose what to feed the beastie with?

High altitude lowers the required octane, so while 87 will work anywhere, at high altitudes if something like 85 or even 83 were available, it would likely work fine. Since in most cases 87 is the minimum anyway, it'll be fine.

Increase in carbon deposits in the combustion chamber increases compression ratio. If you do get ping because of this, then you should use higher octane.
These engines run at very high rpms, and as long as you don't lug the engine under load you should be ok on 87 octane.
Personally I have been using 91 cause just in case I get a batch of bad gas!

Increase in carbon deposits in the combustion chamber increases compression ratio. If you do get ping because of this, then you should use higher octane.
These engines run at very high rpms, and as long as you don't lug the engine under load you should be ok on 87 octane.
Personally I have been using 91 cause just in case I get a batch of bad gas!

I'm sorry, but this is wrong, from the first sentence to the last, and makes absolutely no sense. And why does using 91 just in case you get a batch of bad gas help? Why is that better? You still don't understand what octane rating means and what it does. Not only are you wasting your money, you are robbing your engine of power and also going against the recommendation of the engine manufacturer. Do you really think you know better than them?
People have the mistaken idea that the higher the octane rating, the better or more powerful the gas is, and that is just not correct. So do what you want, use your own logic to justify your actions, but you are not helping yourself or your bike in any way.

I'm sorry, but this is wrong, from the first sentence to the last, and makes absolutely no sense. And why does using 91 just in case you get a batch of bad gas help? Why is that better? You still don't understand what octane rating means and what it does. Not only are you wasting your money, you are robbing your engine of power and also going against the recommendation of the engine manufacturer. Do you really think you know better than them?
People have the mistaken idea that the higher the octane rating, the better or more powerful the gas is, and that is just not correct. So do what you want, use your own logic to justify your actions, but you are not helping yourself or your bike in any way.

Bad gas just means lower octane than advertized cause some unscrupulous dealers buy less quality gas with additives missing so they can make a few more pennies per gallon. Makes the engine run bad.
In my camaro running regular will cause the engine to retard if the knock sensor detects it. This decreases performance. I have always been a car guy and so with my ninjette treat it just like a high performance engine!
You go by the book and I just go by my experience and we both are very happy!:thumbup:

:bump:

Bad gas can be from contaminants in the tank or the truck delivering the gas.

LOL not even my gixxer gets 91 octane.

Here's a question for everyone. If the jerk before you used 87 octane gas, then you come puttering in and opt for 91....how much 87 gas (already in the hose out of the pump) gets into your tank before the 91 starts flowing in? That oughta get a few butts puckered :D

87 in both the Ninjettes as recommended, no issues whatsoever, there's no sense in running a higher octane unless you experience problems with 87...

LOL not even my gixxer gets 91 octane.

Here's a question for everyone. If the jerk before you used 87 octane gas, then you come puttering in and opt for 91....how much 87 gas (already in the hose out of the pump) gets into your tank before the 91 starts flowing in? That oughta get a few butts puckered :D

That's a very good way of looking at it. I never thought of the gas left in the hose.

I've done the test, in both my bike and my car. I've tried 87-89-91-94-95, I seem to get the best results and I feel like 89 is right for me, I'm at like 100 ft above sea level. Does this make any sense?

I've done the test, in both my bike and my car. I've tried 87-89-91-94-95, I seem to get the best results and I feel like 89 is right for me, I'm at like 100 ft above sea level. Does this make any sense?

no

I tried some Shell V-Power this weekend, and I noticed the bike running a lot smoother (less hesitations, more pull, smoother idle, better fuel economy). I normally just gas up at the Pioneer 1 block from my house.

Now the story would end here as a random anecdote, but the science is terrible so I'll refute it:

- The temp has gone up almost 10-15C this weekend, warmer ambient could easily explain it.
- I did my chain maintenance and lubed the axles on the wheels. It doesn't explain the engine changes, but it always makes the bike feel smoother.
- Shell gas could have some chemical differences that the bike is better engineered to handle (ethanol ratios?).
- Pioneer is typically cheaper than shell around here, it's possible there might be more particulate in the fuel (pure speculation). Shell's regular gas might work as well (or better) than the v-power.
- The bike is a 2009 with 13k km on it, I'm not sure the injector cleaner (does it even work on carbs?) they include in v-power would have much effect, unless my existing gas was somehow causing problems.

I believe I spent $1.00 extra on my fill up to speculate on the internet. The only thing I can say for sure is v-power entertained me for a bit ;)

That's a very good way of looking at it. I never thought of the gas left in the hose.

This was mentioned on another forum that I frequent and thought it would be appropriate to mention this here. :D

This doesn't even account for the amount of ethanol certain companies put into their gas additive package that effectively lowers the octane rating further.

Here's a question for everyone. If the jerk before you used 87 octane gas, then you come puttering in and opt for 91....how much 87 gas (already in the hose out of the pump) gets into your tank before the 91 starts flowing in?

It's a common worry on car and bike forums, but there's not much validity to it. There is < 1/4 gallon of fuel, at most, in the portion of the pump that would remain from the prior customer. Even a small bike tank where someone fills up 3 gallons, the worst case would be 1/12 * 87 octane and 11/12 * 91 octane, which for all intents and purposes would result in 91 octane in your tank. Keep in mind that fuel companies often overshoot the octane number as it can drop over time and it is required to meet certain standards when tested later at the end of the line (at the gas station). Unless someone fills up 1/2 gallon at a time, it's just not a worry.

This doesn't even account for the amount of ethanol certain companies put into their gas additive package that effectively lowers the octane rating further.

Ethanol is actually one of the most common ways to *raise* the octane level. The high ethanol content gas means that much less of other additives and treatments are necessary to meet the octane rating requirements. Ethanol has less available power in it by weight compared to standard gasoline, but its octane rating is quite high.

Vp u 4.2

Vp u 4.2
:confused:????

Race fuel $66 for 5 gallons 102 octane leaded and oxygenated

^^^ Ah ok.

Race fuel $66 for 5 gallons 102 octane leaded and oxygenated

oooo... will that make a stock ninja 250 as fast as a ss600? :rolleyes:

I run 93 because it burns cleaner and its easier on engine parts. And with great gas mileage like this, why not spend a few extra pennies. Use it while you can, before you know it all the oil will be in the ocean.......

oooo... will that make a stock ninja 250 as fast as a ss600? :rolleyes:

Nope. But whoever said my bike was stock. :thumbup: 33+hp isn't bad for a track/ race bike

I run 93 because it burns cleaner and its easier on engine parts.

that is entirely false and the reason this thread was started.... to dispel those misconceptions about higher octane fuels.

I run 93 because it burns cleaner and its easier on engine parts.

False and False...

I use 87 because I'm cheap. There, I said it!!! ;) And... maybe because that's what the fam said to use.

False and False...

Agreed with Dwayne and Kelly. If If I did not have the ignition advanced to where it was I would run 87 octane because it performs the best with the stock set up.

Ethanol is actually one of the most common ways to *raise* the octane level. The high ethanol content gas means that much less of other additives and treatments are necessary to meet the octane rating requirements. Ethanol has less available power in it by weight compared to standard gasoline, but its octane rating is quite high.

Right...right...sorry. Ethanol has less energy than gasoline...that's why it sucks...not because it lowers octane.

Insert facepalm here :D

LOL not even my gixxer gets 91 octane.

Here's a question for everyone. If the jerk before you used 87 octane gas, then you come puttering in and opt for 91....how much 87 gas (already in the hose out of the pump) gets into your tank before the 91 starts flowing in? That oughta get a few butts puckered :D

:confused: sorry, this Q really caught me off guard,
are you saying that in your country the fuel of different grades are coming off from the same pump??

:confused: sorry, this Q really caught me off guard,
are you saying that in your country the fuel of different grades are coming off from the same pump??

yes

7325

Well actually the oxygenated racing fuels as ZTrack mentioned WILL increase horsepower all things being equal (oxygenated fuels increase O2 content), but as has been mentioned over and over and over again, octane has no correlation to power. :D And here in the Midwest since ethanol is so prevalent 89 octane fuel costs less then 87 octane (because ethanol is the additive used to raise octane in that case). That's the only reason why I use 89 octane whereas anywhere else in this country I'd use 87 ((RON+MON)/2).

:confused: sorry, this Q really caught me off guard,
are you saying that in your country the fuel of different grades are coming off from the same pump??

Every now and then you'll come across a pump with a separate nozzle for "premium" fuel....but for the most part Alex and Kelly are right.

Even rarer still is when you come across the old style pump...where you have to flip down the little thingy instead of pressing the buttons. I love seeing people struggle with those ones.

Even rarer still is when you come across the old style pump...where you have to flip down the little thingy instead of pressing the buttons. I love seeing people struggle with those ones.

This?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=53&pictureid=569

^^Woah...that's even older than I was talking about. Stuff like that doesn't survive up here with our insane climate changes.

I was talking about these ones:

http://blog.taxworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/gas-pump.JPG

And even THOSE are pretty new....circa late 90's I'd say. Finding one of those around Toronto is like stumbling onto dinosaur bones :D

87, cause thats what i was told

87, cause thats what i was told

Well someone knew what they were talking about....:thumbup:

I'll try 87 but if it runs worse back to 91!
I already have 9000 miles on 91 octane without any valve adjustment.
Still runs great!

I'll try 87 but if it runs worse back to 91!
I already have 9000 miles on 91 octane without any valve adjustment.
Still runs great!

I'd be very interested in what you find w/ the 87.

^That it runs fine. Unless you have the perception and thinking only 91. Your mind will click on anything to affirm the thought that 91 is better.

Run 87. Most manufacturer's RON is 91 I do not know why this is other than to keep one type on tap alll the time for the ease of use between testing different models.

More important then octane is additives. All gas comes from the same place, but different gas companies put in different additives to help keep the engine clean and running well. I find I get the best running and gas mileage from Chevron or Shell. It's all in the additives.

I seem to get better results with shell on the zx6r. Chevron tweaked their formula recently cause I have tried several different stations and the mileage just isn't like it use to be. Shell has been consistent.

Given the choice I always choose Shell. I am boycoting BP at the moment.

Given the choice I always choose Shell. I am boycoting BP at the moment.

I don't blame you.

nb

Ethanol is actually one of the most common ways to *raise* the octane level. The high ethanol content gas means that much less of other additives and treatments are necessary to meet the octane rating requirements. Ethanol has less available power in it by weight compared to standard gasoline, but its octane rating is quite high.

So my question is now... in California all gas has 10% ethanol in it (one of the many things that makes this state so freaking annoying) so should I keep putting in 91 octane? From this statement I gather that ethanol artificially raises octane level so in actuality you are purchasing gas at a lower octane. In all honesty it's a 10 cent difference between 87 and 91 and doesn't affect the final total enough to really get me to use the less expensive gas.

No, 87 octane is just fine, even here in California. Our gas is permitted to have up to 10% ethanol, but it actually varies based on supplier (and even time of year). Whether it's ethanol or another oxygenate or combination of oxygenates that gets the fuel to its eventual octane rating; that rating truly does represent the behavioral properties of the fuel. 91 will not provide any more performance, will not contain any more energy, just as folks have stated throughout this thread.

I also find a much larger price difference between 87 and 91, at least here in NorCal. It's always at least 20 cents difference, and sometimes as much as 40 cents apart. Not like that's a huge amount of cash for a < 5 gallon tank, but as it provides zero benefit, there's no need to spend even that little amount extra.

I'll try 87 but if it runs worse back to 91!
I already have 9000 miles on 91 octane without any valve adjustment.
Still runs great!

One thing has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the other.
If you don't service your bike at the recommended intervals or slightly beyond, soon you will be having a problem (expensive too), and it has nothing to do with the gas you use. Where do you get that from? Do you really, honestly, believe the higher octane gas is "protecting" your valves so they don't have to be adjusted? I wouldn't buy your bike when you're done with it, it's going to need a lot of work.
And you need to do a little homework other than on here and read up about octane, and read up about why these bikes need valve adjustments. Don't spout off about stuff you don't know about and give out bad advice.

I'm not sure that he was giving bad advice, he was only sharing his experiences with it. I do hope that that he has the valves checked at some point soon as well to confirm that all is well, as the octane level probably didn't do much to affect it one way or another.

From another forum......


It isn't E85... E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% Petrol. What Maxol are selling is E5, which is 5% Ethanol and 95% Petrol.

Adding 99 RON to an engine that's designed to run on 95 RON will make absolutely no difference to power output or MPG. The RON rating has nothing at all to do with the output power, it's a measure of how the fuel reacts in the engine at different compression ratios and a few other factors... basically, it's a measure of what point the engine starts suffering from knocking/pinking/pre-ignition.

The only important numbers are the ones that tell you how much energy the fuel contains, that's basically the amount of hydrocarbons and like what we eat, it's measured in calories.

One litre of Maxol 95 RON Unleaded has a calorific value of 31 MJ.

One litre of Maxol 99 RON E5 has a calorific value of 30.51 MJ.

To make it simple, that means that if you're getting 31 mpg on regular Maxol petrol, you'll get 30.51 mpg on E5 so the fact that it's 99 RON makes no difference if it's used in an engine designed/set up to run on 95 RON.

The only way it will make a difference is if you raise the compression of the engine and/or alter the ignition timing. That's the only way you'll benefit from a higher RON.

One thing has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the other.
If you don't service your bike at the recommended intervals or slightly beyond, soon you will be having a problem (expensive too), and it has nothing to do with the gas you use. Where do you get that from? Do you really, honestly, believe the higher octane gas is "protecting" your valves so they don't have to be adjusted? I wouldn't buy your bike when you're done with it, it's going to need a lot of work.
And you need to do a little homework other than on here and read up about octane, and read up about why these bikes need valve adjustments. Don't spout off about stuff you don't know about and give out bad advice.

I already got my tappet feeler guages to check the valves. Dealer will check them for 185 if I take the plastics off and just another 15 to change them. They recycle the shims and never have done a new gen so have plenty of used shims to use from other bikes if they fit. But I will likely attempt to do it myself. The valves wear and intrude into the cylinder head tightening them especially the exhaust. So best to find the shim that is on the bottom of the range. Think these 250 have shorter valve adjustment intervals due to the high revs we are constantly at. OK. What are the symtoms of needed valve adjustment. Hard starting is one. So far mine is fine here.
Regards to octane, why we need 87. Think our bikes lack torque due to small cylinder displacement and always in the higher revs. And maybe the the cylinder heads run cooler due to better heat disipation. It doesn't have a knock sensor to retard the timing so if it is not knocking you shouldn't need higher octane. Thing is once carbon starts to develop in the combustion chamber that could increase the compression ratio enough to cause knock. As well as very high ambient temps of summer. At that point maybe go a grade higher in gas.
So what do you think of my thoughts here.:)

BTW you are very lucky you get the adjust your valves just by loosening your locknut and just turn a screw. Reason why a lot of us are putting it off and relying on other reports of how their clearance was at the first 7500 interval. Based on this info, we think we can go at least 12000 before actually need it. Power to you!

I ran 87 when I had the 250.

I'd be very interested in what you find w/ the 87.

I do know all the facts but still reluctant to put 87 octane! Maybe someone
who uses 87 can try 91 and see if there is any difference!:)

87 straight gas here..no ethonal....runs like a champ. Buy the expensive stuff with ethanol in it if it makes you feel better. Your better off to spend the extra coin on straight gas if your looking for a LITTLE better performance.

Using 95, always been. Simply because 98 isnt necessary. No other choices in Norway. They stopped selling 92 octane many years ago.

I've simply stopped filling at Shell, they dont sell regular 95 anymore..just this "fuelsaving super 95" crap. no thank you.

Here in Utah with the higher altitude, they sell 85 octane at the pumps. Should I be using that instead of 87?

Every now and then you'll come across a pump with a separate nozzle for "premium" fuel....but for the most part Alex and Kelly are right.

Even rarer still is when you come across the old style pump...where you have to flip down the little thingy instead of pressing the buttons. I love seeing people struggle with those ones.


LOL I found myself struggling with one of those the other day, goddamn I was confused! (I was up north) :D

Here in Utah with the higher altitude, they sell 85 octane at the pumps. Should I be using that instead of 87?

The higher altitude means that a lower octane is required. The 87 octane is based on being at sea level. Also the gas in UTAH is 10% ethenol, this technically increases the octane. I've run both 85, 87 and 91 with no noticable differences.

Put in some 85 and see how it goes. If you notice that the engine starts to ping (knock) then put in some 87 to see if it goes away. If it goes away then you know that 87 is needed.

I've had no problems with 85 and I usually run 85, because I get cheap gas at costco (Costco only has 85 and 91 here in Utah).

Maybe someone
who uses 87 can try 91 and see if there is any difference!:)

Good plan, but first you have to answer this question: How do you want to measure that difference?

Around here, we have 87, 89, and 93 octane. ALL of it has 10% alcohol in it.

I did a 1500 mile comparisson with my 08 right after I got it and shimmed the needles, put a K&N air filter in it, and added a TBR slip on. That was all pretty much right after I got it. I had heard all sorts of claims, so I wanted to see for myself.

Conditions were about sea level, March-May, MidAtlantic area.

I filled up from empty (mostly darn near fumes left in the tank) as often as possible, usually from gas jugs at home, to ensure that I was as near empty as possible. I did 500 miles with each octane, alternating between each grade of gas with each tank to spread around the differences in weather and riding use (commute or sport back roads) for that week or whatever.

When it was all said and done, the difference in mileage per gallon was statistically insignificant, I think like less than 1mpg overall, with an extreme spread of just a few miles per gallon within each octane rating and across the three octane ratings as a whole sample group. After that, I stopped tracking it and didn't care any more, just kept using 87.

Subjectively, though, I'm SURE that I went faster with 93 octane, but only because my wallet was lighter and my bike was green!!! :D

During that time, the only gas that I used was from Wawa (mostly from one particular station), so it was about as generic a brand as you could get.

For the remainder of the 6K+ miles that I put on the bike I just used 87 from wherever I was at the time, never had any issues at all.

Unless you've done something to the bike that substatively changes the compression ratio or timing, fill it with 87, ride it like you stole it, and go on to worry about more important things in life. :thumbup:

The higher altitude means that a lower octane is required. The 87 octane is based on being at sea level. Also the gas in UTAH is 10% ethenol, this technically increases the octane. I've run both 85, 87 and 91 with no noticable differences.

Put in some 85 and see how it goes. If you notice that the engine starts to ping (knock) then put in some 87 to see if it goes away. If it goes away then you know that 87 is needed.

I've had no problems with 85 and I usually run 85, because I get cheap gas at costco (Costco only has 85 and 91 here in Utah).

Cool. I'll give it a shot. I'm not really sure though if I would recognize knocks and pings as I've never heard them before or at least recognized them.

Also the gas in UTAH is 10% ethenol, this technically increases the octane.

This may be correct (10% ethanol), but the rating at the pump is the end result. I.E. 85 doesn't mean a "true 87" because of ethanol content. AFAIK, the 85 (RON + MON / 2) is the actual rating of that gasoline, which takes into account whatever was used to get the octane rating to that particular measurement.

This may be correct (10% ethanol), but the rating at the pump is the end result. I.E. 85 doesn't mean a "true 87" because of ethanol content. AFAIK, the 85 (RON + MON / 2) is the actual rating of that gasoline, which takes into account whatever was used to get the octane rating to that particular measurement.

That's supposed to be correct. Whatever the sticker says is what it's supposed to be.

This may be correct (10% ethanol), but the rating at the pump is the end result. I.E. 85 doesn't mean a "true 87" because of ethanol content. AFAIK, the 85 (RON + MON / 2) is the actual rating of that gasoline, which takes into account whatever was used to get the octane rating to that particular measurement.

Yes if it says 85 you're supposed to be getting 85.

Altitude affects octane requirements.

I was just explaining the type of gas we have available here in Utah and the properties of ethanol. (sorry if my statement was misleading).

Yep. :thumbup:

I'm not really sure though if I would recognize knocks and pings as I've never heard them before or at least recognized them.

It sounds slightly metalic, like something is hitting the walls of a tin can. Similar to shaking a can of spray paint.

Have you ever heard an old engine that has problems with "Dieseling"? (Where you turn the engine off and it keeps going off pace for a few revs). It sounds really similar to that, but a little bit more rythmical.

Listen to your engine well before putting in 85. If you notice a difference, then that difference might be what you're looking for. I'd bet that you won't notice a difference. Like I said, I have not had any problems with 85 Octane.

That's what they sell there because that's what works. You do NOT have a high compression engine which needs a higher octane. If it runs well, with no pinging, then that's what you use. There is some obsession with the word "octane" meaning better, and that is not the case. And if your bike is pinging, a higher octane may stop it, but that's masking some other problem because this engine is designed to run on regular low octane fuel.

all this time i have been using 91. what a read thanks ninjette!

Back in '85? The Environmental Protection Agency forced a large chunk of the lead in gasoline to be removed (lead removal actually started in 1975). At the time I was riding a KZ1000K2 that loved premium...Union 76 92 Octane to be exact. After the lead levels dropped the mighty KZ started pinging under a load (loud and audible) and the performance level dropped off significantly. The bike had an 85 Mph speedo and fixed engine timing (I threw the 85 Mph speedo thing in just because that was mandated by the government too). Anywho to fix the pinging I had to slot the stator plate to retard the fixed timing to get the KZ to run on the new fuel without pinging. This degraded the already degraded performance even more. In the end I just sold the Kawasaki.

Moral of the story...be thankful, be very thankful that all current bikes run fine on Regular :thumbup:

http://www.kzrider.com/archive/images/public/img-1091411471.jpg

I use 87 also, since that's what the manual commands.

I read in Rider this month that at altitude you'll sometimes find 85.5 (Eastern MT in particular), but that it behaves the same as 87 because of the altitude... Not that I plan on being above 10,000 feet anytime soon, but anyone know if there's any truth to that?

Most of the pumps here have 85.5. I wouldn't put that in anything other than a rental car. I ride at 10,000 feet regularly. We haven't had the 250 up there yet, but my 9R feels about equivalent to my SV650 at sea level. The altitude absolutely KILLS performance for everything. My cars are dogs up there as well. I am not sure it matters what gas you run at such altitude, the bike isn't going to make any power anyway unless you are specifically tuned for it.

I run 87 in mine, when I first got it I wa using 91 then did the research in to what the numbers are how they get them and what they do. I switched to the 87 and honestly feel the bike performs better with it and is more responsive thought that just could be mental.

I use 91 octane only from chevron with techron haha lol but yeah if i can't find a chevron shell would suffice for the gallon until i can find a chevron station lol

I use 91 octane only...

why??? haven't you read anything in this thread?

Jeez i just read it and i'll start using reg. instead of premium, the funny thing is is that when i first bought it from THE DEALERSHIP!!! the guy said i needed to use 91 octane and i asked him twice to make sure lol welp just goes to show never trust the stealership lol thanks kkim

well, I think the dealership might be confused by the sticker that kawi uses on the bike which says to use 91 RON (sold in other countries) which is the equivalent of 87 PON gas we have here in the states.

enjoy the savings from using the 87 octane gas. :)

Doesn't higher octane gas burn cleaner? Or is it that it burns hotter? Either way, I will be putting the highest octane at the pump in everything I own, short of my craftsman mower.

Not that I am saying you guys are wrong. Maybe I am wasting my money putting 91+ in the 250, but we're talking about a difference of less than $1 per tank.

Doesn't higher octane gas burn cleaner? Or is it that it burns hotter? Either way, I will be putting the highest octane at the pump in everything I own, short of my craftsman mower.

Not that I am saying you guys are wrong. Maybe I am wasting my money putting 91+ in the 250, but we're talking about a difference of less than $1 per tank.


Yep your wrong... :o 91+ will not ignite as easily so a higher compression engine can come to full compression before pre-igniting preventing spark knock. I'm sure it won't hurt the ninja but it is wasting as you say "$1 per tank" X's each fillup X's all the fillups in a year X's all the years you own it. ;)

Doesn't higher octane gas burn cleaner? Or is it that it burns hotter? Either way, I will be putting the highest octane at the pump in everything I own, short of my craftsman mower.

Not that I am saying you guys are wrong. Maybe I am wasting my money putting 91+ in the 250, but we're talking about a difference of less than $1 per tank.

sigh...

I only use race fuel and for no reason other than the smell.

So even you guys with exhaust/ignition advance/re-tuned are getting away with low octane gas and have no pinging under high load? I could be putting my extra $1 per tank toward some go-fast stickers or even a new rubber o-ring for the oil filter ;)

I only use race fuel and for no reason other than the smell.

Hahahha THIS is a guy with too much $ to burn!

just kidding. actually my CBR calls for 91+, but in the Ninja I ran 87 and occasionally used the vpower - not so much for the octane but (possibly) other cleaning additives.

So even you guys with exhaust/ignition advance/re-tuned are getting away with low octane gas and have no pinging under high load? I could be putting my extra $1 per tank toward some go-fast stickers or even a new rubber o-ring for the oil filter ;)

try it... run 87 in your ninja and see if it pings.... try your best to make it ping. it won't.

as long as you don't make any internal changes to your engine, it will be fine with regular gas. that was the whole point of this thread. :)

take the extra money you save from using regular and take your gf/wife out to dinner... hope she doesn't eat much. :p

I have put 91 in my tank the two times i filled it up...only cuz the dealer told me to. Now considering that i'm reading that it makes no difference, I guess i can use the 87...if anything goes wrong with my bike i'm coming after you guys! lol

if anything goes wrong with my bike i'm coming after you guys! lol

:D I'll be waiting!!! :eyebrows:

seriously, your dealer is wrong... which is why you should regard his recommendation on break in with even more suspicion.

^^^runs away, s l o w l y

^^^runs away, s l o w l y

Greg... you have no worries.

lol you guys crack me up.

Have you no fear of the blackwidow? I'm bad for your health...:devil:

Can always check the owners manual too. Remember sales guys at bike department have several models to know about (and yes I know its their job), sometimes 2 or 3 years of a certain model (which might change), and often multiple manufacturers. Therefore they might make generalized, safe statements. Better to tell you to put 91 in your ninja than to tell someone else to put 87 in his 1198. Never mind chain slack, oil viscosity, etc.

walks away even, s l o w e r !

ya but it wasn't the sales dude that told me to put 91...it was the maintainance guy. i dont' know why i listened to him....he was obviously an idiot, he showed me his bike which was an older gen gixer and it was totally demolished. he tried to do a wheelie and ate shyt. haha and here i am listening to his advise. i'm getting on the freeway this weekend.

Can always check the owners manual too. Remember sales guys at bike department have several models to know about (and yes I know its their job), sometimes 2 or 3 years of a certain model (which might change), and often multiple manufacturers. Therefore they might make generalized, safe statements. Better to tell you to put 91 in your ninja than to tell someone else to put 87 in his 1198. Never mind chain slack, oil viscosity, etc.

yes, and there should also be a sticker under your passenger seat that explains the type of fuel you should be using in your ninjette.

y i'm getting on the freeway this weekend.

only if you're ready for it. my advise was not to be afraid of revving the lil ninjette out. you'll be surprised at how much zip it has at 7000rpm and above.

ya but it wasn't the sales dude that told me to put 91...it was the maintainance guy. i dont' know why i listened to him....he was obviously an idiot, he showed me his bike which was an older gen gixer and it was totally demolished. he tried to do a wheelie and ate shyt. haha and here i am listening to his advise. i'm getting on the freeway this weekend.

wonder what his point was of showing you his demolished bike?

So even you guys with exhaust/ignition advance/re-tuned are getting away with low octane gas and have no pinging under high load? I could be putting my extra $1 per tank toward some go-fast stickers or even a new rubber o-ring for the oil filter ;)

not to mention a fresh oil drain plug crush washer

i asked him if he rides too...and he pointed out his bike and I said...what the hell happened to it...and he told me. I laughed, he thought i was laughing with him, but in reality i was laughing AT him.

Only with the BRT Ignition do you need to run 91+. Some have claimed not even then but BRT does recommend it.

Blackwidow: I cant wait to hear what you have to say after you hit some 9-10k gear changes. As always though, ride at your own pace. :)

why Jason? Whats gonna happen at 9-10K rpm's?

9k+ is the fun zone, dont leave the fun zone

why Jason? Whats gonna happen at 9-10K rpm's?

Your engine blows up :boom:
I just wanted to use that smiley.

why Jason? Whats gonna happen at 9-10K rpm's?

Cat-walk!

we have a bunch of comedians on this site...who would have known? lol

why Jason? Whats gonna happen at 9-10K rpm's?

Smiles that are hard for a helmet to contain!!! You have yet to begin to enjoy this bike. Have fun!

lol you guys crack me up.

Have you no fear of the blackwidow? I'm bad for your health...:devil:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/wyckedflesh/Macro/P7020011.jpg

Nope, none what so ever. (shot from 3 inches away)

if a sticker states a higher octane fuel then the compression ratio for the engine is designed for that octane, if a lower octane fuel is used then your engine may knock

Sometimes they will recommend a Higher Octane fuel for a Higher then Average Temperature climate. When its 115F outside here, I can get some very minor Ping on very hard acceleration, but that is pushing the envelope of the design specs.

yeah tried 87 thats a no go i can tell the difference (i've been using 91 for a year and a half so yeah goin back to 91

yeah tried 87 thats a no go i can tell the difference (i've been using 91 for a year and a half so yeah goin back to 91

what do you feel? :confused:

idk its hard to explain like just runs different not in a bad or good way inpreticular just like the way it runs with the 91 better (or it could all be in my head haha) kinda hard to explain. but take into consideration that i bought it off the lot with 2 miles on it and it has never had anything but 91 octane in it so thats all me and the ninja are used to and there is 13.5k miles on it now. anyways just my 2cents

It runs better when it's cleaner too. And if it's sunny out. :)

(yes, it's all in your head. :thumbup:)

I noticed when I ran 87 my bike was less sluggish then when I ran 91. At least it seemed that way to me.

I stand corrected...

High-octane fuels burn slower, allowing them to be used in engines that increase burn speed using design features such as cylinder chamber shape, piston shape, higher compression ratio, etc. However, using an octane higher than what the engine can take most advantage of actually reduces efficiency because the fuel ends up burning slower that what the engine can make most use of. Not only is it a waste of money, but it actually lessens performance and fuel efficiency.


This is a widely held belief that is incorrect. High-octane fuel does not necessarily burn any faster or any slower than lower octane fuel. It is not linear, proportional, inverse, or in fact related at all. Depending on how the high octane rating is gained (what oxygenate and other items), the speed of the burn may be affected in either direction.

The only thing that can be conclusively determined as a difference from lower octane to higher octane fuel (discounting all of the other potential differences in the real world if a fuel vendor adds different or more additives to their more expensive grade), is that the fuel is better able to resist premature detonation. It has more resistance to compression ignition. That's it.

On my passenger seat (I think), it says to run high octane.

On my passenger seat (I think), it says to run high octane.

No it doesn't... :p

On my passenger seat (I think), it says to run high octane.

read it again... what does it say?

On my passenger seat (I think), it says to run high octane.

Only if the passenger is paying for the gas. Kidding, couldn't resist.

How is 89 with ethanol (less than 10%). That is what is cheapest in Omaha...

I use 87 and keep the 10% alcohol for my personal consumption.

^^ best answer yet

...can't argue with that, haha!!

Who else is looking forward to filling up the Ninjette with 87 octane this spring? Fuel prices are a rip these days, even here in MT where we supposedly have CHEAP fuel geographically. I may have to expropriate my wife's 250 when possible, since everything else I own requires 91!

87 in mine. I did run a tank of 94 thru it once at the request of the dealer as I was complaining about a hesitation around 8-10k rpm in hot weather. It ran like a can of smashed assholes, and I've never put anything other than regular in it since. didn't make the hesitation any better, in fact I think it made it worse.

87 octane in my 93. cause im a broke college student

Got a brand new 11' SE in January. I've been putting 91 since day one and I've been getting slightly over 40mpg. Granted, it's all local stop-and-go traffic and I ride aggressively. I got a tank full of 87 and I'm about to fill up in a day or two. We'll see how my MPG was affected...

I certainly see no difference in performance. If anything it feels a little peppier, but I think it could easily be placebo effect.

Doesn't the factory specs only call for a minimum of 87 AKI? Anything higher is burning an unnecessary hole in my pocket.

:thumbup: That's the aim of this mongo thread.

:thumbup: That's the aim of this mongo thread.

I'm shocked... somebody finally gets it!! :faint:

kenji808 runs 87..i run 92..he has a slip on and such..i am completely stock..i out weigh him by 40lbs...but i pull on him through the entire powerband...i am a bit richer than him...but it def makes a difference in performance...then again..i ride the piss out of the poor thing, and it's 80+ everyday out here on the westside.

the ethanol is a proven mpg eater..with hawaii doin a solid 13% on the normal...my car went from 31-34mpg to 24-28mpg..

all our vehicles get 92 or higher. but that is a requirement anyway, i miss non-ethanol 93 :\