When I first signed onto this forum in may when I bought my bike, and I saw this forum, and I saw the section about crashing, I was like man, I dont think that will ever be me, but I learned that the more inexperienced you are, the less likely you are to crash, I say this because you dont test the limits, youre still nervous about riding, being in new york it wad whatever, never had an issue, I come to florida with way more riding experience, I started going on twisties and have a blast at 10k+. So one day im riding around, high in the rpms, doing anywhere from 40-55 I wanna day, I was leaning hard having a complete blast, and then I came to a patch of sand, I thought I could avoid it, as it was a lot of sand, I straightened up the bike, hit both brakes, but I still manage to get the back tire onto some sand, the back tire had NO traction, I was just moving the back side to sidex and then I went onto the side of the road which was grass, and I couldnt believe it, the instant the bike touched the grass, it just threw me off the bike, I mean the very instant it touched, I was gone, I landed head first, and all I could think was, im done, I got to be, after flying however far I flew I got up took my helmet off and ran to find my bike, which was super far away from me, I couldnt believe it, I hit the ignition switch off, flagged down some cars, my bike was deep in a ditch, but with 4 people it was out, the bike started right back up, had no mirrors, a lot of the plastic is still cracked, non of the cosmetic body really lines up anymore, I had an eletrical problem that I fixed, and the bike seems to wobble a lot easier if I like move my hips around like I use too, and my gas tank is bent in but doesnt leak, the steering, if I turn it left, it completely goes left, theres no lock anymote, it goes left till the handle bar touches the gas tank, the right side still locks properly it stops right before the gas tank.
I call this, the better storyx I was able to ride away, the bike was okay, I was okay, I know some people cant say the same
Hope you enjoyed the better story

I disagree completely with the inexperience = less crashes thing, I have a lot of experience with crashing (luckily not a ton with serious injuries as a result)
crashing is largely a result of mentality and lack of skills/technique to handle a situation and or a situation being completely out of the rider's hands (i.e. getting hit by a car that ran a stop sign or getting rear ended)

/endrant/
in this situation what likely happened was that you target fixated on the sand that you were trying to avoid and as a result rode right over it rather than straightening out and re-leaning or tightening up the turn completely or even straightening out and braking
One thing to note though is that your tires aren't designed for offroad use and shouldn't be used as such (though they can totally pull it off if you're a skilled dirt rider)

what it sounds like for "instant it hit the ground I lost it" is that there was a gap from the pavement to the grass, it doesn't take much but if you're on the brakes that's enough to potentially lock the front up even with abs (I have locked up my rear on flat pavement and I have abs...)

just a sidenote, I can't watch your technique since I'm half the east coast away from you so I suggest heading to a track day. I don't know where it is relative to you but I do believe that jennings is in FL and I'll likely be there this feb with a ninjette track group and I really suggest you head over, you'll learn a lot and have a blast. Not to mention you don't have much to lose now that the bike's all rashed up :p

btw, check to make sure that your left handlebar isn't bent if it is then replace it if it isn't and it's hitting the tank you may have a problem

I would check the forks and frame too. Glad your OK.

I would check the forks and frame too. Glad your OK.

yea, that's where the problem is if it isn't the bar itself. Bars are a lot easier to deal with which is why you check that first

forks aren't the biggest deal since that can be swapped relatively easily but the frame being bent would be bad, I did a frame swap a while back and it sucked

I come to florida with way more riding experience, I started going on twisties and have a blast at 10k+. So one day im riding around, high in the rpms, doing anywhere from 40-55 I wanna day, I was leaning hard having a complete blast, and then I came to a patch of sand, I thought I could avoid it, as it was a lot of sand, I straightened up the bike, hit both brakes

the mistake you made is very clear. trying to use too much traction (brakes) when you had none (sand)

the bigger mistake you made is not so clear. that mistake is thinking that you are skilled or experienced and overrunning not only your vision (you should have been going a speed where you could have accounted for the sand in the road when you saw it... the sand did not jump out from the trees.) but your skill (incorrectly braking and incorrectly responding to the slide). go to a race track.

welcome to the club. it's fun crashing isn't it?

Sorry to hear this. Always ride at a pace where you can adjust to obstacles you encounter in the street. If it was only a small patch of sand, you would probably have been fine if you had just continued through it. My front tire slid on wet pavement a while back and I did absolutely nothing and the bike recovered within half a second.

There is a tab on either side of your bike that stops the handlebars from turning far enough to touch the tank. I'm not sure how to explain it, but stick your hand down below the steering stem below the upper triple tree... You will probably feel that tab bent outwards, but the right hand tab is intact. That's actually also a very good way to see if a bike has been wrecked even after all of the cosmetic damage has been repaired, because that's pretty much on your frame and you cannot replace that part easily at all. Also make sure your handlebars are not bent and your forks are not bent either. It could be that those tabs are technically frame damage, which will total your bike if you make an insurance claim.

What is the 'wobbling' like? Check the bolts on everything on the front end of your bike. If I were you, I'd break them all loose and re-tighten them back to spec while making sure nothing is twisted or bent. But from the type of crash you say you had, it's very likely that something is damaged. How's the alignment?

When I first signed onto this forum in may when I bought my bike, and I saw this forum, and I saw the section about crashing, I was like man, I dont think that will ever be me, but I learned that the more inexperienced you are, the less likely you are to crash, I say this because you dont test the limits, youre still nervous about riding, being in new york it wad whatever, never had an issue, I come to florida with way more riding experience, I started going on twisties and have a blast at 10k+....

it sounds like part of the problem is that you think you are no longer inexperienced but that is not the case. :thumbup:

You are, you pushed/tested the limits and here we are :cool:

I'm coming up on my 2 year mark for street riding and i still consider myself inexperienced and i feel like i had a jump on the learning curve having ridden dirt bikes for a long time. Coming off a dirt bike i was already comfortable with the controls of the bike among other things allowing me to focus on other aspects of street riding from the start.... i'm still an inexperienced wanna be :rotflmao:

Anyone of any experience level can go down at any time and it only takes one crash to make a lasting impression. Experienced riders with reserve are just better at cutting down on the road condition and rider error incidents :thumbup:

You can't account for road conditions in turns, you can't see the road around the turn, don't throw it out there, you are asking for trouble sooner or later. There are many turns i take every day to and from work, i do a speed check before the ones i know have a chance to be messy on my way to work, maybe its all clean, either way on the way home i still don't hit those turns at half the speed i could, just because they were clean in the morning does not mean they still are 8hrs later. :thumbup:

Live and learn, you got lucky this time, don't let your fate rest on luck alone :thumbup:

^especially in PA I lost count ages ago on how many times I've rounded a corner to see multiple gravel patches on the other side

it's much more common than in MD

and your crazy tire wear further proves your point that you are a cautious rider subxero

You can't account for road conditions in turns, you can't see the road around the turn, don't throw it out there, you are asking for trouble sooner or later. There are many turns i take every day to and from work, i do a speed check before the ones i know have a chance to be messy on my way to work, maybe its all clean, either way on the way home i still don't hit those turns at half the speed i could, just because they were clean in the morning does not mean they still are 8hrs later.

I like this guy!

^especially in PA I lost count ages ago on how many times I've rounded a corner to see multiple gravel patches on the other side

it's much more common than in MD

and your crazy tire wear further proves your point that you are a cautious rider subxero

dunno if i would go that far ;) but i generally leave plenty of room for the unexpected in the turns.

Just this week on my way home there is a nice sharp slightly banked right turn, i thought "ahhh i'm feeling frisky, i'm gonna rail this turn today" got set, flicked it in hanging off everything is great, get to where i can see day light out and what do you know, some *** clown in a pick up comes out of a quad trail or some crap on left side of road and pulls the whole way into my lane on his way out to make a right. It was non issue, i seen it early, had just enough space to make adjustment and i was in good position on the road ect... but it could have easily gone bad quick.

It was a nice reminder that we share the road with morons, count on them doing stupid things :thumbup:

^stuff like that is why I don't like to ride fri/sat nights...too many drunks

I would check the forks and frame too. Glad your OK.

nm, sorry... didn't read and it was already covered.

Hope all works out well for you... seems it's been one of those days.

My problem was straightening the bike and braking, because I hard braked and the back end still managed to touch some patches of sand because it slid from behind me, I practice hard braking all the time, 30 to 0, and the back never slid likr that, so riding through it would have probably been a lot worse lol. Everyone has an accident though, its behind me lol.

And to the person who mentioned that tab thing, I forgot to mention that was the reason it turns to far, I actually realized that a couple weeks ago and confirmed that was the reason, the tab that stops it from going to far left is broken, but the right one is still there.

I just dont know the cost to fix it, plus I been riding every single day since the accident because I work and this is my only vehicle, and it didnt cause an issue besides being park and turning to far if I turn it so I never bothered to get it fixed, will get it done eventually though since I want to sell it, whether I sell it to a person or dealer I wont sell them something unsafe.

I practice hard braking all the time, 30 to 0, and the back never slid like that, so riding through it would have probably been a lot worse

how many times have you practiced braking or riding through sand? it sounds like none. i think you would be extremely surprised by what you can do with no traction when you are doing it correctly. you would probably have been fine if you rolled though at 10% throttle even with some lean angle. trying to stop the wheels makes the bike fall over. spinning wheels keep the bike up. the fact that you do hard brake practice but have never locked up wheels before also shows you are not braking as hard as you could. when straight up, braking as hard as you can results in the rear tire sliding around and hopping up and down before the bike does an endo. you can do this on stock brakes. so if you aren't braking that hard, you aren't practicing an emergency stop. you're practicing a spritely stop. there is a big difference.

really though. go to a race track. you'll quickly come to several very large realizations. i promise.

Thanks for posting your story. I hope you've taken something away from this thread you started. Pretty much every post in here has been insightful and made me think of something I hadn't previously considered, or needed refreshing in my mind.

Also: not trying to be rude but... were you drunk when you started this thread? It was really difficult reading your story! Your second post however, was easy reading by comparison; complete with paragraphs and everything! https://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/168/5/3/_wink_kiss__by_idjpanda-d7fbw7n.gif

My problem was straightening the bike and braking, because I hard braked and the back end still managed to touch some patches of sand because it slid from behind me, I practice hard braking all the time, 30 to 0, and the back never slid likr that, so riding through it would have probably been a lot worse lol.

FYI: If you're riding straight up and your rear tyre is sliding along behind you it doesn't mean you're in trouble or going to crash. Rule of thumb for that situation is keep the rear wheel locked if the rear end is fishtailing (so you don't high-side) and concentrate, carefully on taking off speed using your front brake, without locking the front wheel. Once you've got your speed right down or you've stopped, or if the bike has stopped fish tailing you can safely release the rear brake without risk of high-siding.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm talking sh*t. I don't think I am.

I want to sell it.

Hmmm... Are you looking to transition to a car? If so, we might be able to muster up a trade ;-) If you have any interest in an '02 RSX [automatic (with manual mode) Fresh 2.4L] PM me. I've got a trip to FL coming up soon.

really though. go to a race track. you'll quickly come to several very large realizations. i promise.

can confirm this as I recently started riding track and it has made a world of difference to my street riding as well due to the amount of added control I have over the bike.

I'd be willing to bet that you haven't practiced emergency stops in the rain either, that's the only time I practice them anymore as braking in the wet is a personal weakness, hoping I get a rainy track day down the line

MSF 101: Don't brake in loose dirt/sand/gravel, ride through upright with constant throttle to minimize slippage of the tires.

OP, I'm glad you weren't hurt badly and that your moto is still ridable. Thank you for posting your experience as painful as it was; it is very helpful for newer riders to learn from your situation and what they can do to avoid it. lots of great advice posted here in reply, its important to know when to avoid heavy brake application and to not ride faster than the roadway that is visible.

I don't think crashing is really caused very often by inexperience, i'd say it's caused more from testing the limits OVER your experience, A lot of inexperienced riders take it easy and are fine. It's the few inexperienced immature riders who don't take it easy and cause a wreck. I know inexperience is part of the equation, but it's not enough, you have to add recklessness in there, and yes even going 5mph over the speed limit is considered reckless.

If a new rider completely followed ALL the road rules down to the speed limit, etc. I bet 90% of all stories about new riders falling wouldn't happen.

akima, why rate that as unhelpful? Please, explain...

Hero Danny Sure. Some of what you said made sense to me, but some of it didn't.

"Taking it easy" doesn't have much to do with motorcycle safety IMO. I pretty much never take it easy when I'm riding, but I don't consider myself unsafe to myself or others. If I wanted to take it easy I'd buy myself cosy saloon car with aircon, a nice stereo, seatbelts, airbags and leather seats. I could then relax in my safe cage and... take it easy! I ride a bike though, so my journeys are less comfortable, more dangerous and more intense. Every moment I'm on the road I'm scanning for things that might kill me and looking for corners that might thrill me! ( terrible rhyme, intended :p )

Also. I don't see any strong correlation between following the rules of the road and motorcycle rider safety. One example: I sometimes perform overtakes over solid white centre lines (which goes against the rules of the road): I do this to get away from a car behind me that I perceive as dangerous. I make sure I make my overtake safely (for myself and other road users). I'd rather break a rule than rely on the sketchy looking driver behind me, doing the right thing.

I don't think going 5 over the speed limit is necessarily reckless. Sometimes going 5 over the limit is safe and is enough to put some space between you and the cages behind you.

There are a bunch of dopey riders out there that ride their bike the same way they drive their car - their focus being following the rules of the road. Maybe that dopey rider has right-of-way at a junction so they pull out assuming the other vehicle will do the right thing. That rider, IMO, would do better to focus on their own safety over the rules of the road. Those rules might work out pretty well for them in their safer car. I wouldn't rely on them on a bike.

I don't actively try to brake the rules of the road on my bike and generally I ride within them. I don't treat the road like a race track, but I also don't treat the highway code like a safety manual.

If I had to put money on the survival of rider A, who focused on following all the rules of the road or rider B, who focused on riding safely then my money is on rider B.

btw: I don't have a problem with you I just don't agree with you.

If I had to put money on the survival of rider A, who focused on following all the rules of the road or rider B, who focused on riding safely then my money is on rider B.

Well put. I drive and ride in the same manner... If I'm on the interstate in my cage and the flow of traffic is 80mph in a 65mph zone, I'd rather be keeping a safe distance and cruising at said MPH vs bunched up with the ones running 65mph bumper-to-bumper...

If travelling on same said road and someone cant keep a relatively constant speed but, fluctuates from 60-75mph, I will pull ahead in a leisurely manner "breaking the law" to ensure I don't have to deal with such obnoxious and potentially dangerous driving (these are typically luxury cars/suvs that apparently don't come standard with cruise contol, but do come standard with someone with their eyes on their smartphone, instead of the road.)

Hard to have much more experience or push the limits of the bike then I and mine is still all nice and shiny. There's is no single common denominator for crashing but good you weren't hurt. Next stay off the brakes, throw out that inside foot, pin the throttle and flat track that bitch through the sandy section.

akima Thank you for explaining... You make a lot of sense and you are more experienced than me so I would listen to you over me and advise others to listen to you over me as well.

That being said, it's better to voice your counter opinion rather just put a strike on me... kinda harsh in my opinion... but that's your prerogative.. :/

:)

:)

troll, i'll get ya guys back some day lol

troll, i'll get ya guys back some day lol

:hug:

akima Thank you for explaining... You make a lot of sense and you are more experienced than me so I would listen to you over me and advise others to listen to you over me as well.

That being said, it's better to voice your counter opinion rather just put a strike on me... kinda harsh in my opinion... but that's your prerogative.. :/


A dislike is not big whoop. Ive gotten a few. Take your lumps.... maybe even dish out a few hahaha

ALSO _ ALL THIS TALK ABOUT SAND MAKES ME WANT TO
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-52KMYR2Z98I/T3Xzqy0mLvI/AAAAAAAAHo4/MX_LFkTnpWc/s1600/Yamaha-YZF-R1-sand-dunes-07.jpg

Just remember my friends. Sand sucks horse power.

ninja 250 is like a weed eater in the sand. ... a 600 is like a 250
a liter bike....

Is like redbull.... it gives you wings!!!!!