I always blip (rev match) downshift as I'm slowing down and will blip to first gear around 10 - 15mph. I pull in the clutch around 3mph (when the motor begins to bog down) and come to a complete stop in first gear.

But.....is that overkill? Do you really need to downshift and blip all the way until 1st gear?

Lately, I've been experimenting with blipping until I'm down to 2nd gear. While in 2nd, around 5mph (when the motor begins to bog down), I pull in the clutch and shift to first (without ever releasing the clutch again) and coast a few feet to a complete stop.

The main reason I was playing around with this is because it's one less thing to do (rev match 1st gear). Besides, the bike accelerates fine at 5mph in 2nd gear if I ever had to "go" in a situation where someone was going to rear end me.

One main CON I thought of is: When I've slowed to 5mph (2nd gear) and pull in clutch to shift to 1st while I'm about to put my foot down, perhaps I may NOT be in 1st gear? Maybe I'm stuck between 1st and Neutral (and not realize it)? And if someone comes barreling down at me from behind, I may be a sitting duck???

What are other cons you can think of for someone not blipping all the way down to 1st gear?

If you have another method of coming to a complete stop that's not listed in the poll, please let us know.

I just usually pull in the clutch and click down to first and use the brakes to come to a complete stop, then I pull out the clutch and take off. I will engine brake in certain situations, but not every single stop, it's tedious and honestly it's unnecessary. I'm sure other's will disagree with me, but it's been working fine for me.

I just usually pull in the clutch and click down to first and use the brakes to come to a complete stop, then I pull out the clutch and take off. I will engine brake in certain situations, but not every single stop, it's tedious and honestly it's unnecessary. I'm sure other's will disagree with me, but it's been working fine for me.

So what happens if you're slowing down from 50mph...you pull in the clutch and you shifted into 1st...as you're slowing to 30mph, the light ahead turns green and you have to go? Do you shift back up to 3rd, rev your engine to 5,000rpm in neutral (with the clutch pulled in), then release clutch (revved matched) to go?

So what happens if you're slowing down from 50mph...you pull in the clutch and you shifted into 1st...as you're slowing to 30mph, the light ahead turns green and you have to go? Do you shift back up to 3rd, rev your engine to 5,000rpm in neutral (with the clutch pulled in), then release clutch (revved matched) to go?

Well, I never do that method when going from 50 mph to zero. I would engine brake then.

In that scenario where I knew I was in 1st, I was at around 30 mph and knew I had to start accelerating, then yeah, I would up shift twice if I could and try to slowly release the clutch to rev match, once i'm in gear and it smooths out a bit, i'd take off. Again though, that sort of thing just never happens cause usually I will engine brake going those speeds.

You... don't?

Just downshift normally to 2nd, then disengage the clutch and coast, slowing with your brakes, shifting to first before you come to a complete stop.

:whathesaid:

I have a very tall first gear so I can't really vote on this.

Even in my Vette I never downshift (and engage) to first. As long as you're rolling, even just a little, 2nd gear should get you moving again reasonably quickly.

Never engage 1st on the move Usually engine brake down to 3rd for a redlight and click down to 1st once stationary. Unless you live on the side of K2 there is no earthly reason to engage 1st while rolling. It's jerky (in both senses :) )

Depends... if the light turned fast I do option 1 or 2. If I am cruising I do option 4. I prefer to do 4, but do it many ways.

I generally blip and down shift, one gear at a time, all the way to 2nd, then I fully disengage the clutch before downshifting to first. I then coast the last meter or so. I'm still in gear so I can still bring the revs up and engage the clutch quickly if I need to suddenly move.

1st gear is horrible on my ninjette. I don't know what it's like on other motorcycles. If I'm ever actually riding in 1st gear, I'm always skimming the clutch to make things smooth. When I take off from a stand still I'm out of 1st gear within seconds.

When riding at very slow speed in the city I'm always jealous of the scooter riders that are just chilling on their twist and go throttle while I'm constantly faffing about between 1st & 2nd with my clutch hand doing a work out that would put Bruce Lee to shame.

Just like everyone else - I generally blip to match and down shift, one gear at a time, all the way to 2nd, then I fully disengage the clutch before downshifting to first. I then coast the last meter or so. I'm still in gear so I can still bring the revs up and engage the clutch quickly if I need to suddenly move.

It's not a con (BELOW). It could happen in any gear, any speed at any time.

One main CON I thought of is: When I've slowed to 5mph (2nd gear) and pull in clutch to shift to 1st while I'm about to put my foot down, perhaps I may NOT be in 1st gear? Maybe I'm stuck between 1st and Neutral (and not realize it)? And if someone comes barreling down at me from behind, I may be a sitting duck???

it really all depends on the scenario. i just go to a empty warehouse and practice all the time. and yeah 1st gear is...really short and jerky haha

If I'm stopping for a red light or stop sign, I brake down to like 3 or 4k RPM in whatever gear I'm in, then pull in the clutch and click down to 1st as I brake to a complete stop, click up to neutral, release clutch. Don't forget to check your mirrors so you don't get rear-ended.

If I'm coming to a potential stop but I think there's a good chance I won't have to actually come to a complete stop, I will shift down through the gears as I brake so that I know I'm in the right gear to get going again. I could do this every time, but unless I feel like practicing, the first method is easier.

#1 is downright dangerous, #4 is most logical. Also, I find 250's aren't too fond of shifting down to first while moving. It's really twitchy.

Where does the 250's first gear top out at? Mine goes to around 70 or 80 mph lol

If you wring it out around 50kph/30mph

Hmm so that would be sketchy.

typically shift into like 3rd or 4th, wait for the light to turn green, then as the bike struggles to get going from a stop I feather the clutch to help and after that doesn't work much better I pull in the clutch the whole way and slam a bunch down shifts until it wont go any more and just figure I'm now in 1st.

Works every time

Seven steps to stopping a motorcycle.
1 Look behind you
2 look at the road surface ahead of you. Line up the bike so if you get hit you go between the cars in front. Not
Smashed into them
3 begin down shifting and let off the gas
4 apply rear and front break smoothly as you come to a stop.
5 put you foot down as you stop, not before.
6 hold the clutch and put the trans in first gear.
7 look behind again and get ready to gun it if the idiot on his phone is not going to stop

2 look at the road surface ahead of you. Line up the bike so if you get hit you go between the cars in front. Not smashed into them
....
6 hold the clutch and put the trans in first gear.
7 look behind again and get ready to gun it if the idiot on his phone is not going to stop

Regarding these three points...

I watched a rider on Tuesday pull up dead center behind a SUV type with probably a foot or two between their bumper and his tire. Then I watched as he put it into neutral and sat back on the bike looking around.

I parked a ways back from him, close to the center line to split if needed, and made sure to keep a close eye on my mirrors to pulse my brake for the car coming up quick behind us.

... made sure to keep a close eye on my mirrors to pulse my brake for the car coming up quick behind us.

I do this as well.

I practice options 3 & 4.

Sometimes I rev match all the way down to first and sometimes I don't. It all depends if the light had just turned red or if there's a stop sign. To blip down to first IS annoying, but I love rev matching and all you gotta do is rev a little higher, so yeaa...

I'm new so I'm still working on the blip the throttle whilst braking. The whole applying front brake while blipping is not very easy for me yet. I can do it pretty good w/o applying the front brake, but don't feel as safe doing that and down revving if a car is behind me. I want them to see brake lights.

I typically pull clutch lever in, and apply both brakes. When I get to 40, I downshift into 4th. 30 DS into 3rd, 20 DS into 2nd, and once I stop I click into 1st. I do not release the clutch lever while doing this, unless the light/traffic starts moving, but I should be in a good gear at this point and just let off clutch and apply throttle.

I'm new so I'm still working on the blip the throttle whilst braking. The whole applying front brake while blipping is not very easy for me yet.

I still can't do it. I seem to get by without that skill though.

I ride a 600 on the street. I don't bother blipping/rev matching as I come to a stop. I just hold the clutch, and downshift at appropriate speeds so if I have to go, I'll be in the right gear.

I always flash the brake light a few times as I'm braking, and again as traffic approaches. I only go to neutral once the car behind me is stopped.

Hmmm, great post! I voted the 2nd one

I brake a bit (so I'm probably below 50 when I start clutching/shifting most of the time), disengage the clutch while continuing to brake, and shift down as I'm coming to a stop (still moving). I'll snick it into 1st just before I come to a complete stop.

Generally speaking, you want to keep the bike in a gear suitable for the current speed. Staying in 6th or immediately shifting all the way down to 1st and coasting with the clutch in is bad, as you're unprepared if something comes up and you suddenly need to accelerate.

Motorcycle transmissions frequently shift better when the output shaft is turning, so I tend to let the clutch out and engine brake a bit between gears. Lately I've been doing two gears at a time - click down twice into 4th and let the clutch out at least a little, then down another two into 2nd, then I'll click down to 1st as I come to a stop. That keeps me in (or very close to) a gear appropriate for my speed, without constantly messing with the gears while I'm slowing.

As mentioned, if you're slowing down via some means other than the brakes, keep an eye out behind you, and at least tap the brakes if you need to, to flash the brake light at the person behind you. They're looking for bright red lights, not concentrating on the deceleration rate of a small object. This applies to manual cars too, but the bigger object is easier to judge the speed of, and you're less likely to die if you get rear-ended in a car than on a bike.

Also, watch the lights for the cross-street and the crosswalk indicators to help judge when your light will change. This can give you a bit of extra info to avoid panic stops or to slow down a little sooner to avoid having to come to a complete stop.

I've never been able to figure out the whole blipping thing.

Today I paid attention to what I do as I approached a light that changed with enough time for me to slow down to a stop.

See red light, off throttle, apply brakes.
When revs slow enough, clutch in and downshift, clutch out.
Continue applying brakes until speed slows enough for lower gear.
Rinse and repeat all the way into first, with maybe a 5-10 clutch in coast just before the line.

Works for me as if the lights changes to green before I am stopped, already in the right gear to get off the brakes and back on the gas.

This is a really interesting question!

I just downshift, let the clutch out, let the RPMs slow, downshift again, etc... until I'm in 2nd, and then I shift to neutral and usually I stop in neutral and then shift to first because my bike can be difficult to get into neutral if I come to a stop already in first gear.

My bike has crazy strong engine braking so I usually don't even use my brakes until I'm already in 2nd gear and coming to a halt.

I've never been able to figure out the whole blipping thing.

Today I paid attention to what I do as I approached a light that changed with enough time for me to slow down to a stop.

See red light, off throttle, apply brakes.
When revs slow enough, clutch in and downshift, clutch out.
Continue applying brakes until speed slows enough for lower gear.
Rinse and repeat all the way into first, with maybe a 5-10 clutch in coast just before the line.

Works for me as if the lights changes to green before I am stopped, already in the right gear to get off the brakes and back on the gas.
This is what I do.

I can bleep but it is a wast of effort if you are just coming to a normal stop.

I just keep down shifting as speed decreases. Proper gear for the speed the bike is moving. I use the clutch on the street but do shift clutchless at the track. I dont use a lot of engine braking just use the brakes and shift down as speed requires so i am always ready to get back on the gas if necessary. Brakes are cheap and engines expensive so I try to keep the proper gear selected for the speed i am going..

I just keep down shifting as speed decreases. Proper gear for the speed the bike is moving. I use the clutch on the street but do shift clutchless at the track. I dont use a lot of engine braking just use the brakes and shift down as speed requires so i am always ready to get back on the gas if necessary. Brakes are cheap and engines expensive so I try to keep the proper gear selected for the speed i am going..

My bike won't shift clutchless. At any speed or any gear...it just won't. I have to pull the clutch in.

My bike won't shift clutchless. At any speed or any gear...it just won't. I have to pull the clutch in.

You need to be off the throttle for clutchless shifting (up or down)

I can clutchless downshift the Ninjette with no throttle (eg when coming to a stop. Without rev matching.).

But mostly I use the clutch because it's smoother and wears out less parts than forcing gears...

Bikes have clutches for a reason :)

You need to be off the throttle for clutchless shifting (up or down)

I can clutchless downshift the Ninjette with no throttle (eg when coming to a stop. Without rev matching.).

But mostly I use the clutch because it's smoother and wears out less parts than forcing gears...

Bikes have clutches for a reason :)

I know that, but as I have said, my bike won't shift unless I pull the clutch...yes, my hand is fully off the throttle.

So you can't forcefully downshift when slowing down, in a higher gear? I did it today on mine...

So you can't forcefully downshift when slowing down, in a higher gear? I did it today on mine...

If I force 20 lbs of pressure, I may...but why would I wanna do that? It feels like it would break something. If I pull the clutch, it shift smoooooth. I guess it's not worn out or something? Who knows.

If I get lazy I'll downshift without the clutch but I usually don't because the voice inside my head tells me that it's a bad habit and probably bad for the bike.

As for stopping, I engine brake and match speed to the proper gear while flashing my brake lights all the way to 2nd and sometimes 1st. I want to be ready to go whenever I want/need to.

A short video of me downshifting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFfASbKzuKc

Video start in 5th gear. Had to slow down and downshift to 2nd gear for a right hand turn. After the turn, a car was making a U-turn, so I downshift to 1st gear, coming to a complete stop.

zfBfLqfpEMA

I just keep down shifting as speed decreases. Proper gear for the speed the bike is moving. I use the clutch on the street but do shift clutchless at the track. I dont use a lot of engine braking just use the brakes and shift down as speed requires so i am always ready to get back on the gas if necessary. Brakes are cheap and engines expensive so I try to keep the proper gear selected for the speed i am going..

If I get lazy I'll downshift without the clutch but I usually don't because the voice inside my head tells me that it's a bad habit and probably bad for the bike.

As for stopping, I engine brake and match speed to the proper gear while flashing my brake lights all the way to 2nd and sometimes 1st. I want to be ready to go whenever I want/need to.


There are several threads already about clutchless shifting. I'm a big fan of clutchless upshifting WHEN DONE CORRECTLY. Be careful, clutchless downshifts are more difficult to do right which means you run a potential risk of doing damage to your transmission.

I used to upshift clutchless 100% of the time from 2nd to 6th gear. But I read other people's opinion (on this forum) that it's bad for the tranny. So, I started using the clutch again.

Funny thing is, it "feels" like I'm doing MORE harm when using the clutch because the bike jerks. I don't like letting the clutch out slowly. I pretty much dump the clutch when I shift. And it jerks. But when I'm upshifting without the clutch, it is BUTTER smooth!!! That's why I (literally) "feel" like clutchless upshifts are better for the bike because there is no jolt.

But that's another discussion for another day. Downshifting, I tried a few times without the clutch, but it's not as easy. Once you quickly snap shut the throtte, you have to get right back on as you're clicked down one gear to get the rpms up high again. If I don't time it right (which I almost never do), it's not smooth at all.

Here's another video (this time with the camera aimed lower to see my hands) while coming from at stop from 50mph (5th gear). This time, I blipped all the way down to 1st gear.

And I know it's a really bad habit, but I never use my rear brakes to slow down. It's just hard to break the habit since I've been doing it for 10 years now. Oh....and I only use my middle finger on the brake lever as well.

9WD1ah7U92E

Now that riding season is starting for those of us in the NE, has anyone changed their downshift regimen?

And I know it's a really bad habit, but I never use my rear brakes to slow down. It's just hard to break the habit since I've been doing it for 10 years now. Oh....and I only use my middle finger on the brake lever as well.

sounds smooth enough to me
I always downshift through every gear for the extra practice

I've been experimenting with various different braking grips, I like using two in particular

2 finger braking w/index and middle on the brake lever
and
3 finger braking w/middle, ring, and pinky on the brake lever

I have more braking power with the first one but the second is easier to blip the throttle more precisely with. I like them both and am using them interchangeably though I've noticed that I'm using the 2 finger more on hard braking at the track and the 3 finger more for trail-braking

one advantage of the 3 finger is that I have a smoother transition from brake to throttle which allows me to slingshot myself out of corners with a higher exit speed

Realistically the differences only pop up at the track so both work on the street and it's more an issue of comfort than anything else. Brake levers don't require as much force as our minds believe they do, one finger braking is completely normal and if that feels natural to you then go for it :thumbup:

don't forget to flash your brake light while you downshift if you aren't using your brake

I don't bother with blipping when I expect to come to a complete stop, so some engine braking is always involved in my stops. I used to use the rear brake often to stabilize my position, but currently the right rearset is being held onto the bike with wire, so the front brake pads are the only ones being used.

s
3 finger braking w/middle, ring, and pinky on the brake lever

That just feels weird to me. I have much better throttle control for blipping, but for some reason, the braking just feels weird to me.
don't forget to flash your brake light while you downshift if you aren't using your brake
That's the very reason I personally set my rear brake light senor to be extremely sensitive. The light will go on just before the brake pads hit the rotor. Good tip!

I snick into 1st just as I come to a stop and am disengaging the clutch. Never really thought about it too much.

Sequentially downshifting to the 1st while blipping every time. Because why not? It's good practice. I can almost always match revs now. Almost.

I used to upshift clutchless 100% of the time from 2nd to 6th gear. But I read other people's opinion (on this forum) that it's bad for the tranny. So, I started using the clutch again.

Funny thing is, it "feels" like I'm doing MORE harm when using the clutch because the bike jerks. I don't like letting the clutch out slowly. I pretty much dump the clutch when I shift. And it jerks. But when I'm upshifting without the clutch, it is BUTTER smooth!!! That's why I (literally) "feel" like clutchless upshifts are better for the bike because there is no jolt.

But that's another discussion for another day. Downshifting, I tried a few times without the clutch, but it's not as easy. Once you quickly snap shut the throtte, you have to get right back on as you're clicked down one gear to get the rpms up high again. If I don't time it right (which I almost never do), it's not smooth at all.
The clutchless changes tend to wear the corners of engagement dogs/ pins not the teeth because the gears are constant mesh. I did it for a few years with my first Honda which was a mistake because they rounded off and it eventually started jumping out of second. necessitating a strip and transmission swap. I know racers do it but they are more concerned (one hopes)with winning than two decade durability :)
a pic of good vs damaged, as you can see the pins are reaching the point where they cannot transmit power but will just "ramp out" ultimately also damaging the selector fork as it tries to hold it in place against the side thrust.
http://www.frederickbecker.com/How_To/Second_Gear/Day_2/6th_gears.JPG
pic credit frederickbecker.com

Thanks for that info! That's why I don't do it anymore. There are times where I still do it when I'm accelerating hard (100% open throttle) and just need a smooth & quick up shift. But I'll try not to do that anymore.

If I'm stopping for a red light or stop sign, I brake down to like 3 or 4k RPM in whatever gear I'm in, then pull in the clutch and click down to 1st as I brake to a complete stop, click up to neutral, release clutch. Don't forget to check your mirrors so you don't get rear-ended.

If I'm coming to a potential stop but I think there's a good chance I won't have to actually come to a complete stop, I will shift down through the gears as I brake so that I know I'm in the right gear to get going again. I could do this every time, but unless I feel like practicing, the first method is easier.

I also do the same.