In a Dec. 30 letter, LAPD Police Chief Charlie Beck cited last month's killings and told Google CEO Larry Page, "Your company's 'Waze' app... poses a danger to the lives of police officers in the United States."
http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/28/technology/security/waze-police/

In this instance I can see the argument being presented by the popo, they're worried about safety we're worried about tickets. The lawmakers will likely side with the doughnut lovers

In this instance I can see the argument being presented by the popo, they're worried about safety we're worried about tickets. The lawmakers will likely side with the doughnut lovers

The first amendment will get in the way.

I see both sides of this, but I will side with the popo. Yes, we have the right... and its freedom of... But, a speeding ticket is not worth risking someone's life. I have had my share of tickets and not once was it worth anyone dying over.
Disclaimer:
This is only MY opinion, you are not required to agree with it. I am related to a popo

Soooo, they don't like being surveilled...

what makes then think we enjoy it?

getting very tired of license plate recognition soft ware to generate a database on every vehicle and where it's at.

cell phone GPS location database, toll way transponder data logging...

if the PoPo don't like it and say it's dangerous... good, turn it all off...

Hulk.... smash

"Your company's 'Waze' app... poses a danger to the lives of police officers in the United States."

All cops care about are cops. They don't give a rip about us except as a money source.

The app will stay..

Google (Waze) has already released a very good response to this, stating the obvious that the app does not, and has no capability to, "track" police.

I do love the irony of an arm of big brother complaining about being monitored by the people. I wonder how many other 2-way ironies we can make? Giving policemen tickets? Taxing the government? ... Kinda do that already. Defend our government from enemies both foreign and domestic? Do that too. Hmm....

We already have a 2 way ironic relationship with the government. They are just way better at it and our attempts tend to look juvenile in comparison.

I see both sides of this, but I will side with the popo. Yes, we have the right... and its freedom of... But, a speeding ticket is not worth risking someone's life. I have had my share of tickets and not once was it worth anyone dying over.
Disclaimer:
This is only MY opinion, you are not required to agree with it. I am related to a popo
What about freedom of people to tell each other various things, which just happens to include telling each other about police sighting? Would you forbid people from talking to each other altogether, or about cops specifically?

What about freedom of people to tell each other various things, which just happens to include telling each other about police sighting? Would you forbid people from talking to each other altogether, or about cops specifically?

Now, now; James Madison didn't know about the internet or cell phones when he proposed the first amendment. That sort of thing doesn't apply to modern technology! [/sarcasm]

What about freedom of people to tell each other various things, which just happens to include telling each other about police sighting? Would you forbid people from talking to each other altogether, or about cops specifically?

Its an opinion on traffic officers only.
But since you asked, talking about certain things about others is a violation of the right to privacy, for example medical issues. Employers and medical facilities can't talk about people to other people for a reason. So, use common sense if it is medical, religion, political, or just gossip (defamation of characters) it might be illegal.



Again its an opinion and I will not engage in a war on words

Its an opinion on traffic officers only.
But since you asked, talking about certain things about others is a violation of the right to privacy, for example medical issues. Employers and medical facilities can't talk about people to other people for a reason. So, use common sense if it is medical, religion, political, or just gossip (defamation of characters) it might be illegal.



Again its an opinion and I will not engage in a war on words

I disagree with you but I respect and see your points. Why does a difference in opinion need be a war?

I support the police. I think the app is a bad idea and would side with shutting it down for the safety of the cops.

I would like some of the "cop haters" or whatever you would like to call them to live a day in the cops shoes.

"I" = My opinion.

http://i.qkme.me/3um2qi.jpg

if the cops know this app exists, why not stay alert while posted on the side of the highway? or just change location every so often?

its amazing how the government has once again misconstrued intentions of the public. we aren't all violent savages hell bent on destroying everything and everyone just because we can.

They could just login to waze themselves and cancel it everytime the sighting pops up.......if they are that worried.

Waze is not the only app that does or can do this, there is something else at play here.

There's good cops out there and there are bad cops out there. I prefer to think most of them are the good cops.

I can at least sympathize with the chief's point of view. Police work is inherently risky business. Some of these men and women put themselves into very dangerous situations to try and make our lives a little safer. I sincerely appreciate them for what they do.

I can also understand the psychology behind "cops looking out for cops." People who have a shared responsibility and a shared risk tend to develop a strong sense of camaraderie. Put any group of people into a high risk situation and wait to see how long before they start referring to each other as "brothers and sisters." It's natural for them to want to look out for one another, and when they see the potential for abuse in something like the Waze app, it's natural for them to speak out against what they perceive as a threat to their own.

I disagree that the application itself is a material risk to police, and disagree with the logic of his argument. Is it possible that someone will use the Waze app to track a police officer with the intent to do said police offer harm? Sure it's possible. Just like it's possible that people are going to post police officers' locations on Twitter or Facebook or ninjette.org or any other given website. Just like it's possible for people to use their cell phones to text one another or call one another to keep tabs on patrols.

So I can sympathize with the desire to protect one's own, but disagree with the logic of his statement and request.

I support the police. I think the app is a bad idea and would side with shutting it down for the safety of the cops.

I would like some of the "cop haters" or whatever you would like to call them to live a day in the cops shoes.

"I" = My opinion.

http://i.qkme.me/3um2qi.jpg
Your little disclaimer about your opinion would have more weight if you hadn't already classified those defending freedom of speech as cap haters.

It is more interesting to me to see those who come down on the side of the police over and over again tend to be the same people, regardless of circumstance. It's almost like the police can do no wrong in their eyes.

Many others at least manage to express sympathy and support for the police in difficult situations, while still being able to criticize them when they trample our rights. Wanting to hold them accountable != cop haters.

Just my opinion.

Your little disclaimer about your opinion would have more weight if you hadn't already classified those defending freedom of speech as cap haters.

It is more interesting to me to see those who come down on the side of the police over and over again tend to be the same people, regardless of circumstance. It's almost like the police can do no wrong in their eyes.

Many others at least manage to express sympathy and support for the police in difficult situations, while still being able to criticize them when they trample our rights. Wanting to hold them accountable != cop haters.

Just my opinion.

I refer to people that have proclaimed themselves as said haters by saying "i hate cops". I am not only referring to this or any thread, but the general population. I work with someone who calls themselves this. That was not an attack on anyone. You may insert any term you wish.

Do i think all cops are perfect? No, they are human just like you and me. No human is perfect or will never make an error.

I do look at both sides. But in almost all the scenarios i've seen, i feel the cops made the best call they could. Hindsight is always 20/20.

I dont want to live in a world where the criminals have more rights and power then the cops, so i will always support them as a whole and not condemn them all for the few "bad" ones. Bear in mind the bad one will always get the most media attention. But thats another story.

These are my opinions and i will always stand by them. I hope i have cleared up anything that may have come off wrong in my post.

I really don't see the safety argument so much. Any illicit organization that wants to hunt a cop down already can since any group that wasn't established yesterday already has a system in place to monitor and report police presence throughout their territory. Anyone who would want to use this app to "hunt" officers wont be able to really use it effectively because officers generally practice proper setup and establish a strong parameter. They set themselves up in places where no one is really going to be able to get to them without them seeing them first. In areas like DUI checkpoints and such, are usually manned by multiple units and a potential cop killer would have a platoon sized force to death with.

As I said, I personally don't see the safety aspect as a large factor at all. I would though have used the potential illegal ramifications of obstruction as the argument to get rid of the app. Usually when police setup a fixed trap for a day, they usually do it with multiple units. They used to hook people up who would pass the initial officer and flash their high beams with obstruction charges by a second officer who was positioned passed the first officer in case someone got by the first officer.

Why do you need to keep track of where the police are at any given time?

Simple, because you don't want to get caught breaking the law.

police scared of surveillance? haaaaaaaaaaaaaa. now THAT is ripe.

police should absolutely 100% be under surveillance by all of us. why? because they are responsible for protecting us. we are responsible for maintaining our protectors as such. they should be protecting us. if they are protecting us, watching out for them should be something they appreciate. surveilling your protector normally would be a good thing. unless they are not acting as your protector, they have no reason to hide. they should be 100% transparent. put a big sign on them that lights up that says police. sneaky police hiding in the shadows leads to corrupt police hiding in the shadows. have them all wear body cameras that is accessible every day to anyone who wants to see what they are doing.

you don't get to make good people suffer the consequences of bad policing because there are a few enemies out there that look like citizens. you don't get to take away what makes america "the land of the free" simply because you don't know how to respond to a threat.

Its an opinion on traffic officers only.
But since you asked, talking about certain things about others is a violation of the right to privacy, for example medical issues. Employers and medical facilities can't talk about people to other people for a reason. So, use common sense if it is medical, religion, political, or just gossip (defamation of characters) it might be illegal.

Again its an opinion and I will not engage in a war on words
It is not a war of words, it's me trying to understand how do you and people who agree with you form your opinion. Your example is not helping, since medical employees cannot disclose your medical information because they very specifically signed an agreement that they will not do so, as a part of their employment. The citizens walking on a city block did not sign an agreement not to disclose location of the police on public forums. You may shut down the app by google, but then another app will show up, this time hosted in Russia. So you either have to accept it, or make it illegal to citizens to publicly disclose the location of police officers. Do you want to guess if this law will stand a Supreme Court review?

When peoples views are so drastically different on something like this it is impossible for one extreme side to change the others views or opinions. At least not in this kind of setting. you will never convince the "other guy" that "you" are exclusively rite. Is doesn't matter if there even is a truly right or wrong side. Even in matters of opinion, like one side says "i think green is the superior color" and the other says "no purple is far more superior". Neither side is right or wrong but neither side will convince the other.

In the end threads that go in these kind of directions tend to do nothing but rip us apart on the forum. I'm guilty of it too. :(


So on that note, :grouphug:

When peoples views are so drastically different on something like this it is impossible for one extreme side to change the others views or opinions. At least not in this kind of setting. you will never convince the "other guy" that "you" are exclusively rite. Is doesn't matter if there even is a truly right or wrong side. Even in matters of opinion, like one side says "i think green is the superior color" and the other says "no purple is far more superior". Neither side is right or wrong but neither side will convince the other.

In the end threads that go in these kind of directions tend to do nothing but rip us apart on the forum. I'm guilty of it too. :(


So on that note, :grouphug:

this is only true in cases where there isn't a single correct answer that can be quantifiably proven and instead only answers that vary slightly by opinion or interpretation.

the real answer lies further toward the core principals of the question...

let's examine those core principals.

1. communicating with others or sharing ideas.
- this is the basic freedom at the core of all free societies. without the freedom to exchange information readily, you have only censorship. you have only authoritative dictatorship.

2. discussing or sharing information about someone with someone else that is publicly available
- a bit more specific than the above, you are sharing information about a specific person or group of people. but the information is publicly available to those who seek it out in person. seems like this is absolutely required to be protected by law as freedom of speech. how could you possibly argue against the ability to freely share information that is already public. trying to censor information leads to totalitarian governments.

3. talking about the police with people
- so it's one step further... the difference is, the person you are talking about is a person charged with protecting us. why would our protectors be given rights we as citizens are not afforded? if you are banned from talking about police, what is next? banned about talking about politicians? banned from making negative connotations? banned from disagreeing with the people who are supposed to represent you? banned from drawing a picture of a prophet? banned from making a joke because some people might be offended by it?

4. sharing information about someone that someone else could use to harm that person, but that information is publicly available.
- this gets a bit more grey. but i believe it falls under the same conclusions. if it is publicly available knowledge, anyone can get to it. if anyone can get to it, anyone should be allowed to share it. information isn't harm. using information to harm someone is harm. but if that information is publicly available, the person sharing it has not effectively changed anything. nor have they caused any harm. a person causing harm to another person --regardless of their means-- is responsible for harming that person. not the first person who told the second person where to find the cop. the person trying to harm the cop is responsible.

5. sharing information about someone else that is not publicly available
- heres where things get sketchy. private information has many different levels of sensitivity. private information can be used to hurt people. certain information is only shared with other people under contracts. like your doctor. your doctor is under a contract not to share your private information with other people. and so you give them your private information and trust them to keep it private. if you violate that contract and share private information- you have broken a legal contract. there are punishments for breaking contracts.

your location in a public space is freely obtainable knowledge by anyone who wants to possess this knowledge and is in your vicinity. public officials are required to wear name badges. there is absolutely no private information about where a public servant police officer is located. in fact this is by definition a public matter.

so- there we have it. if you want to live in this country which has as part of its constitution --the core principals of this country-- protection for the free sharing of public information, then do so. otherwise, maybe you should not live in a country whose core principal is free sharing of public information. freedom of speech.

I disagree that the application itself is a material risk to police, and disagree with the logic of his argument. Is it possible that someone will use the Waze app to track a police officer with the intent to do said police offer harm? Sure it's possible. Just like it's possible that people are going to post police officers' locations on Twitter or Facebook or ninjette.org or any other given website. Just like it's possible for people to use their cell phones to text one another or call one another to keep tabs on patrols.

That's my take on it. Completely separate from all of the arguments about whether the app feature should exist or not, and whether users of the app are conscientious drivers or hell-bent speeding anarchists; removing the app feature does nothing at all to improve an officer's safety from someone who wants to harm a cop.

Heck, it's easier to order a cop (in this skewed viewpoint, a "target") to your door (or your pay phone) than it is a pizza, and they will probably arrive faster.

That's my take on it. Completely separate from all of the arguments about whether the app feature should exist or not, and whether users of the app are conscientious drivers or hell-bent speeding anarchists; removing the app feature does nothing at all to improve an officer's safety from someone who wants to harm a cop.

Heck, it's easier to order a cop (in this skewed viewpoint, a "target") to your door (or your pay phone) than it is a pizza, and they will probably arrive faster.

i think -- playing advocate here-- a good equivalent argument for him would be calling police from a pay phone to some empty area and then ambushing them... calling them to their house would be pretty obvious who the perp was.

This is a little like the gun argument... People apparently don't kill people... Now apps kill people too!

But this app will only benefit lawbreakers and such. If you aren't doing anything wrong or driving like an ass you're fine, what do you need it for?

Any time i got pulled over i was doing somthing wrong and deserved it. I may have been unhappy about it but i had only myself to blame for it.

I just realy don't understand the need for it.

But this app will only benefit lawbreakers and such. If you aren't doing anything wrong or driving like an ass you're fine, what do you need it for?

Any time i got pulled over i was doing somthing wrong and deserved it. I may have been unhappy about it but i had only myself to blame for it.

I just realy don't understand the need for it.

your statements do not change the facts.

you are right, most people don't need it. but the fact is, just because the people who mostly use it are criminals, DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE APP IS CRIMINAL. there is a MASSIVE distinction between those two.

you cannot simply criminalize legal behavior because the people you don't like do that.

if criminals started using google to search for information on their victims, does that mean we should ban google because it makes information available to us easier? fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck no.

your statements do not change the facts.

you are right, most people don't need it. but the fact is, just because the people who mostly use it are criminals, DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE APP IS CRIMINAL. there is a MASSIVE distinction between those two.

you cannot simply criminalize legal behavior because the people you don't like do that.

I never said that Alex. :(

But this app will only benefit lawbreakers and such. If you aren't doing anything wrong or driving like an ass you're fine, what do you need it for?

Any time i got pulled over i was doing somthing wrong and deserved it. I may have been unhappy about it but i had only myself to blame for it.

I just realy don't understand the need for it.

Its not an app for lawbreakers, it helps monitor the flow of traffic. You can put there are objects in the road to avoid (tires), cops ahead is just one of the things you can say are up ahead.

Any one who this this app needs to be taken down is just as stupid as the ones who thinks taking all guns away will stop criminals from using them. If I am going to kill a cop I will do it with or with out this app.

But this app will only benefit lawbreakers and such. If you aren't doing anything wrong or driving like an ass you're fine, what do you need it for?

There are any number of responses to a question like that, that range from plausible to unlikely; but all of them fit in the category of a conflict between personal liberty and government oversight.

Why are radar detectors legal? Why is strong encryption legal? Why do we all have personal phone lines at home instead of a party line shared with our neighbors? Why do we care whether police need warrants for searches or some surveillance?

The very simplistic "If you're not doing anything wrong, why do you care?" question comes across as a bit naive.

But this app will only benefit lawbreakers and such. If you aren't doing anything wrong or driving like an ass you're fine, what do you need it for?

Any time i got pulled over i was doing somthing wrong and deserved it. I may have been unhappy about it but i had only myself to blame for it.

I just realy don't understand the need for it.

You obviously haven't used the app... No disrespect here, but this discussion is centering around just 1 of the reports... Wayz has a much accurate traffic monitoring feature, making navigating around traffic really easy! Also, the more people use Ways, the more traffic is distributed along all arteries, not just the major ones, which could result in slight traffic decongestion...

I'm also not sure if this happens in your area, but on I-70 coming down from the mountains/ski traffic etc, it's common to run into stand-still traffic from 70mph (which is the speed limit). Wayz gives you a headsup on this so you can slow down before.

There are many other reports about hazards in the lanes, or for how many miles the traffic is terrible and accidents alerts or shopping for gas prices.

As a rider, we're safer the farther we can see. This allows us to see farther (if you ride with ear buds). So, again, I don't mean any offense, I simply mean to say there are many real benefits to the app, which is why I use it all the time... Sure, it helps with avoiding speeding tickets, but it also helps people keep safe.

As somebody else mentioned, cops could actually use this to their advantage, BIG TIME. Instead of posting 1 or 2 cops on a free way to make money writing tickets, have 1 cop drive around once, posting LEO alerts themselves, then kick back and enjoy the coffee... But safety and revenue aren't always the same thing. Or, if they feel threatened to have their location reported, simply report it as a false report...

Now, I'm not trying to hate on cops, thems doing their jobs is what we pay them to do.... Laws and a driver's education program/long distance transport of goods and services by interstate instead of train require traffic laws which are laughably slow and stupid, so I will direct my frustration at that, kick back and enjoy my cup of coffee or music at the speed limit.... This is why I ride a 250 and not something bigger. :D

I never said that Alex. :(

you aren't saying that, but the guy demanding google get rid of it is. it is a common problem. look at pot. why is pot illegal? because people who were viewed as law breakers used it. and so they made it illegal so they could arrest those lawbreakers. when in reality, they created law breakers by criminalizing normal, legal behavior.

This is just another case of people not understanding technology. The app has the ability to report stationary, traffic-related data. This includes things like cars stopped on the shoulder, water over the road, closures due to special events, and police (as in a speedtrap, traffic stop, or accident scene). The app is 100% user-reported data, meaning it's not guaranteed to be complete, current, or accurate. It has no ability whatsoever to track the police, much less a specific officer, without another Waze user standing next to that LEO submitting updates however frequently is required to be considered "realtime". https://www.waze.com/livemap/ is the extent of the data we're talking about.

It's already been ruled that it's protected speech to flash your headlights to warn other drivers of police in the area, and this is just a more technologically advanced version of that. As stated already, if this is banned, you'll just see Facebook/Twitter/Ninjette/whatever posts filling the void. Before long systems will be automatically pulling that data in, and it'll act exactly as it does now, just with some extra junk in the middle.

If someone really wants to find a cop to attack, I'm sure there's a better way than scouring semi-anonymous traffic reports.

"They're in clearly marked cars," Mueller said. "They're public officials conducting a public duty in a public space. There's no expectation of privacy."



But this app will only benefit lawbreakers and such. If you aren't doing anything wrong or driving like an ass you're fine, what do you need it for?

In some places it's required by law to slow down or move over for emergency vehicles stopped along the road. This aids that greatly. Even if I'm not doing anything wrong, I still appreciate advance notice of unexpected things on the roadway.

This sums it up

Ok, my uncle is an officer and I am very close to him. So, I hear some of the stories you might not...the ones not on the news...the good things they do.

Now, again I did say TRAFFIC OFFICER if you are speeding you are BREAKING THE LAW. So, if you are playing by the rules why does it matter where they are?
As for other officers, my neighbor (now gone) was/is a drug dealer. Every time someone reported them they heard it on a scanner (no app needed). This went on until they lost the house, ever live next to a dealer? With a little girl in your home, and they know when you are gone? Other than scanners, an app could also prevent the police from monitoring this kind of activity. If you are running from the law it can help you getaway too. My thought is, if you break the law you will likely be caught and deserve the penalties. I am NOT innocent either, I have had my share of tickets.
My brother is proactive and has a jammer on his car.

As for privacy... Not only are the medical bound, so is everyone....HIPAA. And... you can be sued if you talk about another persons medical or if what you say prevents them from obtaining employment. Check out defamation of character.

I was just questioning the logic of making it easier for the bad guys with that feature.

That is all.

I was just questioning the logic of making it easier for the bad guys with that feature.

That is all. Sorry for feeling that way...

They still have to download it

Ok, my uncle is an officer and I am very close to him. So, I hear some of the stories you might not...the ones not on the news...the good things they do.

Now, again I did say TRAFFIC OFFICER if you are speeding you are BREAKING THE LAW. So, if you are playing by the rules why does it matter where they are?
As for other officers, my neighbor (now gone) was/is a drug dealer. Every time someone reported them they heard it on a scanner (no app needed). This went on until they lost the house, ever live next to a dealer? With a little girl in your home, and they know when you are gone? Other than scanners, an app could also prevent the police from monitoring this kind of activity. If you are running from the law it can help you getaway too. My thought is, if you break the law you will likely be caught and deserve the penalties. I am NOT innocent either, I have had my share of tickets.
My brother is proactive and has a jammer on his car.

As for privacy... Not only are the medical bound, so is everyone....HIPAA. And... you can be sued if you talk about another persons medical or if what you say prevents them from obtaining employment. Check out defamation of character.

That's like saying your ok with a TSA agent groping a little kid. The kid dose not have a bomb so its ok.:doh:

That's like saying your ok with a TSA agent groping a little kid. The kid dose not have a bomb so its ok.:doh:

Bull ****, it is not. Not once did I say anything about a kid or TSA. BREAK THE LAW pay the price. Cop killed because you want to speed is not a good trade. That is my point. Don't put words in my mouth, the TSA and traffic cop are not the same.

If someone wants to kill a police officer, not being able to use Waze to see where a cop was sitting on the side of the freeway thirty minutes ago isn't going to stop them.

Bull ****, it is not. Not once did I say anything about a kid or TSA. BREAK THE LAW pay the price. Cop killed because you want to speed is not a good trade. That is my point. Don't put words in my mouth, the TSA and traffic cop are not the same.

So i am going to kill a cop if I speed hmmmm

Bull ****, it is not. Not once did I say anything about a kid or TSA. BREAK THE LAW pay the price. Cop killed because you want to speed is not a good trade. That is my point. Don't put words in my mouth, the TSA and traffic cop are not the same.

Also tsa and cops are the same dick heads who justify being a ass as protecting us

So, if you are playing by the rules why does it matter where they are?


it doesn't. and this information is publicly available. so what does it matter if publicly available information is available to the public?



As for other officers, my neighbor (now gone) was/is a drug dealer. Every time someone reported them they heard it on a scanner (no app needed). This went on until they lost the house, ever live next to a dealer? With a little girl in your home, and they know when you are gone?


so because they sell drugs, now they are going to rape your daughter? slippery slope argument you've got going on here. what did they get reported for? selling drugs? did that harm someone?




Other than scanners, an app could also prevent the police from monitoring this kind of activity.


police are not supposed to surveil anything. they are supposed to enforce policy.


If you are running from the law it can help you getaway too.


so can a well placed banana peel. are banana peels to be made illegal?


My thought is, if you break the law you will likely be caught and deserve the penalties. I am NOT innocent either, I have had my share of tickets.
My brother is proactive and has a jammer on his car.


let's pretend for a second i have never broken any laws. why am i to be punished and restricted in order to make a normally legal act illegal in order to be able to punish certain people who might also be breaking other laws?


As for privacy... Not only are the medical bound, so is everyone....HIPAA. And... you can be sued if you talk about another persons medical or if what you say prevents them from obtaining employment. Check out defamation of character.

what does HIPAA have to do with it?
HIPAA is the acronym for the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act that was passed by Congress in 1996. HIPAA does the following: Provides the ability to transfer and continue health insurance coverage for millions of American workers and their families when they change or lose their jobs;

nobody is sharing medical information. people are reporting information about the location of a police unit.

what if this information was used to build a database that was used to redirect police to less-covered areas? it is the same thing, but the reasoning behind it is different. in this case, it would be heralded as a benefit to law enforcement and the community... in reality it is exactly the same thing, the only difference is how this information is used.

you can't make a law to prohibit a normally legal activity simply because the people you don't like perform that activity.

Again stop adding words, I didn't say they would harm her. She just watched all the deals go down and almost got hit by a car when they sped away. More worried about my safety so I just open carry in my yard.
What is the point of the app and knowing where the popo are?

Medical part was referring to privacy act. Stop trying to add what is not there.

Again stop adding words, I didn't say they would harm her. She just watched all the deals go down and almost got hit by a car when they sped away. More worried about my safety so I just open carry in my yard.
What is the point of the app and knowing where the popo are?

Medical part was referring to privacy act. Stop trying to add what is not there.

the point of the app is to know what is happening on the highway.

and you are arguing against it. i have family in law enforcement too. personally i don't let me family connections invalidate my view on a free society and what creates a police state

Again stop adding words, I didn't say they would harm her. She just watched all the deals go down and almost got hit by a car when they sped away. More worried about my safety so I just open carry in my yard.
What is the point of the app and knowing where the popo are?

Medical part was referring to privacy act. Stop trying to add what is not there.

Why not know where they are? Its just like recording them they try to stop ppl from doing it all the time even tho its not illegal.

lets flip it around shall we?

if the cops aren't doing anything wrong, why would they be worried about people videotaping them?

i think this is the real problem. people think police should be judge dredd. that's not how the system works. police should not have as much power as we expect them to take. they are not detectives. they are not judges. not prosecutors. not investigators. they are called to a scene to keep the peace. not disrupt the peace.

Knowing what is on the road (hazards) is good. The cop thing CAN have a negative impact that CAN out weigh the positive. That is all I was trying to point out. I have a camera in my car to protect me from false accusations when/if I needed in a court room.

Knowing what is on the road (hazards) is good. The cop thing CAN have a negative impact that CAN out weigh the positive. That is all I was trying to point out. I have a camera in my car to protect me from false accusations when/if I needed in a court room.

i agree that many things can be used for good as well as bad.

i don't believe in making everything that can be used for bad illegal.

Knowing what is on the road (hazards) is good. The cop thing CAN have a negative impact that CAN out weigh the positive. That is all I was trying to point out. I have a camera in my car to protect me from false accusations when/if I needed in a court room.

What is one negative thing it can be used for that you can not use something else for the same results?

I never said make it illegal, I just said I see both sides and decided to debate the side of law enforcement.
I support our rights for freedom, anytime something is made illegal there is always something else the govt tries to slip past. More laws = less freedom.

What is one negative thing it can be used for that you can not use something else for the same results?

What is one positive, that is legal?

Never said there wasn't

What is one positive, that is legal?


knowing what hazards are on the road is the positive, legal, and sole purpose for the app. as stated in the app intro, the app description, the app manual, and the app help online.

What is one negative thing it can be used for that you can not use something else for the same results?

One positive you cannot use something else same result?

What is one positive, that is legal?

Never said there wasn't

Ditto....except playing with devices while driving. But, This would include all apps, CBs, radio... Anything that distracts your attention from driving.

knowing what hazards are on the road is the positive, legal, and sole purpose for the app. as stated in the app intro, the app description, the app manual, and the app help online.

See above...you can do this with other resources.

What is one positive, that is legal?

Never said there wasn't

knowing where speed traps are at.

I disagree with you but I respect and see your points. Why does a difference in opinion need be a war?

Because apparently, human nature makes us irrational....

Adding words and interpretations to what others say, or trying to offend them by fat fingering the unhelpful... Etc.

I know you debate with logic and are very civil. Unfortunately, not everyone is.

knowing where speed traps are at.

Speeding is against the law. So, are dui check points a bad thing too?

Speeding is against the law. So, are dui check points a bad thing too?

did you know that speed traps are against the law?

Speeding is against the law. So, are dui check points a bad thing too?

Yes they are a bad thing. Also I did not say I was speeding (words in mouth: thumbup:). For that matter ppl like to brake cheek when they see a cop even ppl who are not speeding so in fact knowing a area that cars may be slowing due to a speed trap is helpful

One positive you cannot use something else same result?



Ditto....except playing with devices while driving. But, This would include all apps, CBs, radio... Anything that distracts your attention from driving.



See above...you can do this with other resources.

Sorry. I'm late to the party tonight.

Waze is available to me at no extra expense. Should real-time traffic data only be available to those who can afford it? Since when do basic rights involve 'pay to play' or did I misunderstand? I never bought a standalone GPS for several reasons and now my phone does a better job more cheaply than any standalone GPS.

I've used Waze for a few months. The 'cop' indicator is a minor feature, not the sole purpose as reported in the media. I use it to judge how serious road hazards ahead might be. One incident/hazard flag isn't too much to worry about, but several or with a cop or three is going to be ugly traffic. I think extra indicators for other emergency vehicles would be nice.

If the police think their presence isn't being passed around, they've forgotten what it is like to be young and passing on the presence of authority figures to others is automatic. This is just another way. Take it away and people will use SMS, Bookface, or some other social media app.

Again, cop tracking is far from the primary focus of the app. Would it be better to change the cop icon to a generic emergency vehicle?


Many times what a person says about others also reveals more than intended about themselves.

Many times what a person says about others also reveals more than intended about themselves.

Well stated, sir!

Another thing to keep in mind the police use to be around to server and protect the public now for the most part all they serve is the government. A small town in Colorado the cops still give free rides to the public to get them home from the bar or to help them get to the store. other then a few out siders there has never been any violence agents a cop by a person of the town. Why because all of them treat the ppl of the city with respect.

did you know that speed traps are against the law?

Yes I do, and so is profiling.

So, my question to all of you using the app.... I don't use my phone at all while driving, in fact it is in my purse and out of reach. Do you use this while driving, like a GPS or is it interactive? I ask because distractive driving is also illegal, and in Ohio they are push hands free by 2016.

Good question, Snot!

Prettywife and I use Waze when we're both in the car going somewhere that involves a significant drive (relative, I know...).

The copilot runs Waze and lets the driver know what's ahead (traffic, disabled cars, cops, whatever).

I don't hate cops. But I don't like them, either.

So, my question to all of you using the app.... I don't use my phone at all while driving, in fact it is in my purse and out of reach. Do you use this while driving, like a GPS or is it interac? I ask because distractive driving is also illegal, and in Ohio they are push hands free by 2016.

I use it all the time on the bike. And the same cops who want this taken away are the same ones doing this.
http://www.businessinsider.com/police-officer-will-not-be-charged-in-killing-of-napster-executive-2014-8

Sorry. I'm late to the party tonight.

cop tracking is far from the primary focus of the app. Would it be better to change the cop icon to a generic emergency vehicle?


Many times what a person says about others also reveals more than intended about themselves.

I don't see how its a party when one person is just defending an opinion. The emergency would be good so you know to avoid the area or where to move over. I still use the radio for traffic updates, it is free and I know my area well enough to know when to avoid certain roads. I might be pretty useful when traveling.

What did I reveal that was unintended? I could of debated the other side of this as well.
I am not trying to change anyone's mind, just want to understand why others thought what they did.

I use it all the time on the bike. And the same cops who want this taken away are the same ones doing this.
http://www.businessinsider.com/police-officer-will-not-be-charged-in-killing-of-napster-executive-2014-8

I asked a sheriff about something similar, I was told they are trained to do this. It reminds me of a CR on the track looking backwards. They are trained, and just because they can does not mean you can or should...and it is a risk that can end bad. He also told me in some parts of Ohio officers are not allowed to use new devices, they must use the radio only.


The sheriff was teaching the traffic class I had to attend :rolleyes:

I asked a sheriff about something similar, I was told they are trained to do this. It reminds me of a CR on the track looking backwards. They are trained, and just because they can does not mean you can or should...and it is a risk that can end bad. He also told me in some parts of Ohio officers are not allowed to use new devices, they must use the radio only.


The sheriff was teaching the traffic class I had to attend :rolleyes:

Training will only take you so far.

Yep, that's why I said it's a risk. CRs on the track know this too.
I don't think it is right the cop should just walk with no repercussions. His first job was to protect the innocent

So, my question to all of you using the app.... I don't use my phone at all while driving, in fact it is in my purse and out of reach. Do you use this while driving, like a GPS or is it interac? I ask because distractive driving is also illegal, and in Ohio they are push hands free by 2016.

Good Q. I use it mainly as GPS, will interact if I think I can do so safely.

But this app will only benefit lawbreakers and such. If you aren't doing anything wrong or driving like an ass you're fine, what do you need it for?

This app mostly benefits people who want to avoid congested traffic, accidents, road hazards and such. It is not about cops. Cops just happen to be one of the road hazards, in the few of the users of the app - the app creators have nothing to do with it. This is how crowd-sourcing works - crowds decide what to source.

Saying that Wase is for lawbreakers is like saying that Internet is for pedophiles.

Now, again I did say TRAFFIC OFFICER if you are speeding you are BREAKING THE LAW. So, if you are playing by the rules why does it matter where they are?


It doesn't matter why does it matter. What matters is that people want to talk about it to each other, and whoever tries to prevent it is too dumb and incompetent to hold any law enforcement job whatsoever.

I never said make it illegal, I just said I see both sides and decided to debate the side of law enforcement.
The law enforcement side is to demand google to take down an app that is used to avoid traffic congestion and road hazards. Is this what you support?

For all the reasons I already mentioned.... Please read the entire thread. Incase you missed it....
Because, no app is worth a life, so just remove the feature and call it EMS?

I have RAM mounts in the car and on the bike. I use Waze like a GPS, mounted up where I can easily see it without it being in the way. I do enter road hazards while driving, if I feel I can do so safely*. There's also an option to flag something as you pass it, and enter the details later when it's safe to do so. It also has voice entry options, but they're not integrated with Siri or anything so they're kind of weird to use. Entering a road hazard is 3-5 taps on the screen, depending on if the defaults are applicable - you're not writing a novel.

I'm not trying to "bust the pigs cashing in on us" or anything. I try to flag anything that I think another motorist (especially bikers, as road hazards are generally much worse on two wheels than on four) would like to be aware of, which does happen to include cops. Usually the police I report are traffic stops or accidents anyway. The cable barriers (http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_GuardrailSystemBrochure_300385_7.pdf) around here have pretty much stopped the practice of cops sitting in the median for speed traps. As I stated above, I think the cops at accidents and traffic stops probably appreciate that approaching motorists know ahead of time that they're sitting there.

* I realize this is subjective, and I honestly believe that different people have differing levels of skill for doing other things while driving. Some people can manage to answer their phone or change the radio station just fine while driving. Some people can't even seem to just drive while they're driving. I think people should err on the side of caution, but I don't think every single driver needs to be put in an isolation bubble to safely pilot his car.

For all the reasons I already mentioned.... Please read the entire thread. Incase you missed it....
Because, no app is worth a life, so just remove the feature and call it EMS?

Please hand over the keys to your bike and/or car. It could potentially be used to commit murder. Also, cancel any phone service, because we can't have you orchestrating any nefarious doings with other people. Oh, and your internet service and or cell service, because we can't have you listening to any scanners and finding out where police might be.

(N.B. All I'm trying to do here is point out the absurdity of your stance on this. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a guarantee.)

For all the reasons I already mentioned.... Please read the entire thread. Incase you missed it....
Because, no app is worth a life, so just remove the feature and call it EMS?

And how will it change anything? People will just mentally adjust one for another. And it does not cost lives:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/Officers-Ask-Google-to-Remove-Cop-Tracking-From-Waze-Traffic-App/384897/

Let us count the alternatives. Cops tend to congregate at police stations. They make regular appearances at the courthouse. They drive around town in marked cars wearing uniforms and congregate informally in the same parking lots day after day. As Scott Shackford points out at Reason, "would you like to listen to Los Angeles Police and Fire scanner traffic? It’s right here!" If someone intent on locating a police officer still found themselves unable to do so, which strains credulity, there is a widely known, pre-mobile phone app called 911 that anyone can use, anywhere in any American city, to summon police immediately to any location.

Any police officers who were earnestly worried about Waze compromising their safety can stop. Use the app yourself. It'll be obvious that there's no cause to fret. In fact, you may begin to suspect that representatives of law enforcement organizations dislike the police locator feature on Waze for unrelated reasons, but guessed that a tie to the deaths of NYPD officers was the only rhetorical tactic with enough emotional resonance to bully Google into a change. If the mottos on the sides of police cars stated the whole truth, they'd proclaim, "To protect and serve–and, during down time, to generate revenue for the city." I suspect some of the opposition to Waze by police brass is grounded in the fact that, when its automated voice announces that there's a cop car ahead, drivers slow down.

The copilot runs Waze and lets the driver know what's ahead (traffic, disabled cars, cops, whatever).

I don't hate cops. But I don't like them, either.

Excellent point. I don't hate cops either. But when so many prominent cops are publicly lying about this one app that makes traffic safer but their revenue-collecting duties harder, one may wonder how often they lie in court in order to convict innocent people just for expediency. The police, collectively, have a duty to act with honor and encourage public trust, and this is achieving just the opposite.

Because, no app is worth a life, so just remove the feature and call it EMS?

One bad person may have possibly used the feature to aid him in doing something bad (though I think the facts of the case point to him probably not even using it anyway), so a few people are going all "Think of the cops!!!!11" on it and saying the feature should be removed. But giving advance warning of police (traffic stop, accident, etc.) does help, and has probably saved some LEO lives. Other police are saying they actually like the Waze reports because they cause people to drive more carefully. Removing the police feature could actually end up costing more lives than it saves. There's no way to really compare without having parallel universes.

Here's why I don't think Waze really had anything to do with the killings. This news story (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/12/22/nypd-cop-killer-used-app-to-track-police-movements-since-early-december/) states that Brinsley had the app on his phone, and had used it earlier in the month. Someone pointed out to him that it wasn't all that reliable because it's just user-reported data about stationary hazards. He ditched the phone miles from where he killed the cops. If you read some background on him, it sounds more like screaming out for attention as he committed suicide, as opposed to being a vicious cop hunter. The Waze screenshot he posted may have been nothing more than thinking it was neat to be able to see reported speedtraps. He definitely wasn't "tracking" (in the stalking sense of the word) officers, because the app simply doesn't have the ability to do that.

I agree with that quote from The Atlantic. Easier identification of speedtraps hurts the bottom line, and this is an attempt to tie it to an emotional issue to get it shut down. There are many and easier ways to find a uniformed police officer in public than via a crowd-sourced traffic app. There is technically a remote possibility it could be used by someone who intended to find and harm an officer, but there are many more documented cases of using 911 for the same purpose.



In related news, Escort and Cobra radar detectors have been doing this for years. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/story/2011-10-24/radar-detector-crowd-sourcing/50888878/1

In related news, Escort and Cobra radar detectors have been doing this for years. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/story/2011-10-24/radar-detector-crowd-sourcing/50888878/1

And police wasted loads of time and taxpayer money trying to ban those too.

For all the reasons I already mentioned.... Please read the entire thread. Incase you missed it....
Because, no app is worth a life, so just remove the feature and call it EMS?

Playing devils advocate is hard.:beatdeadhorse:

Excellent point. I don't hate cops either. But when so many prominent cops are publicly lying about this one app that makes traffic safer but their revenue-collecting duties harder, one may wonder how often they lie in court in order to convict innocent people just for expediency. The police, collectively, have a duty to act with honor and encourage public trust, and this is achieving just the opposite.

they are probably mad because their boss saw they were sitting in the same place instead of out patrolling

So, my question to all of you using the app.... I don't use my phone at all while driving, in fact it is in my purse and out of reach. Do you use this while driving, like a GPS or is it interactive? I ask because distractive driving is also illegal, and in Ohio they are push hands free by 2016.

Wow snot! Tops to you for continuing on. Believing in what you know to be right is a very good thing! :bow::bow::bow: Internet keyboard cowboys and all that...

Anyway, to answer your question, yes, I use it while driving and riding all the time. If I'm able to report something safely, using either the voice recognition or the tapping feature I do, if not, somebody else will... The reason Wayz is so cool is because it will alter the route depending on traffic, which means I can set it to start, and it takes care of me - perfect for the bike where it's tucked into a jacket pocket. If it finds a faster route, it tells me, and all I have to do is listen... Me thinks you should try it. It is free afterall... :cool:

Please hand over the keys to your bike and/or car. It could potentially be used to commit murder. Also, cancel any phone service, because we can't have you orchestrating any nefarious doings with other people. Oh, and your internet service and or cell service, because we can't have you listening to any scanners and finding out where police might be.

(N.B. All I'm trying to do here is point out the absurdity of your stance on this. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a guarantee.)

You forgot I should hand over my oven because I could burn down the house :rolleyes:
For the last time.... The first post... in a Dec. 30 letter, LAPD Police Chief Charlie Beck cited last month's killings and told Google CEO Larry Page, "Your company's 'Waze' app... poses a danger to the lives of police officers in the United States."

All I am doing is pointing out why I agree it CAN be dangerous, and again just call the feature EMS and include all EMS. Debates on the internet can also be dangerous to your health, when others want to engage like high school kids. Just because you disagree with my OPINION doesn't mean it is all wrong. I never said illegal or to get rid of apps, just questioning the real reason behind them.
Carry on, I just ask you stop reading what is not there and adding words or meaning that was not said.

For the last time.... The first post... in a Dec. 30 letter, LAPD Police Chief Charlie Beck cited last month's killings and told Google CEO Larry Page, "Your company's 'Waze' app... poses a danger to the lives of police officers in the United States."

All I am doing is pointing out why I agree it CAN be dangerous, and again just call the feature EMS and include all EMS. Debates on the internet can also be dangerous to your health, when others want to engage like high school kids. Just because you disagree with my OPINION doesn't mean it is all wrong. I never said illegal or to get rid of apps, just questioning the real reason behind them.
Carry on, I just ask you stop reading what is not there and adding words or meaning that was not said.

Yes, it can be dangerous. So can a lot of other things which also have many good, life-saving benefits as well. Putting PD locations in Google Maps also "poses a danger to the lives of police officers in the United States" since a bad guy could go there and shoot the place up. However, it's generally considered much more helpful to know where the PD is than to worry excessively about a fringe case of someone using that information to do something bad. Wearing uniforms "poses a danger to the lives of police officers in the United States" but we still think it's better overall for them to be identifiable (in normal duty situations). The fact that police officers carry firearms "poses a danger to the lives of police officers in the United States" because their gun could be taken and used against them (or even an accidental self-shooting). Let's start a proposal to increase officer safety by disarming them and see how far it gets...

Basically everything out there can be dangerous in some way. A knee-jerk reaction to try to get rid of anything that has a remote chance of being used in a bad way will most likely result in a lot of undesired consequences and side-effects, and trying to ban desired technology rarely works anyway. You'll probably end up with a bunch of stupid laws banning app buttons that say "Police" on them or something, and every app will now come with a button for donuts or pork products instead.

To use a line from American Sniper, I feel that the police are the sheep dogs of our society. They're the brave ones willing to protect others at their own expense. We give them some special privileges beyond a normal citizen's rights so that they can efficiently protect us. It's inherently a dangerous job, and I'm pretty sure everyone older than elementary school realizes this. I don't want to put officers needlessly at risk, but I also don't want my protectors to be the ones who are clamoring to shut down anything anywhere that could theoretically pose the slightest possible risk to them. A website called ihatecopsandwanttokillthemall.com that does nothing but collect and publish cops' personal info? Yeah, shut that down. A traffic app that allows motorists to report hazards (including police cars) along the roadway? Not so much.

On the surface, I like the idea of altering Waze to use "Emergency Vehicle" instead of "Police", to better cover more situations. The live map (https://www.waze.com/livemap/) shows entries as speedtraps, while the iOS app simply says police, so there's already some confusion around it. Perhaps they need to break out "speedtrap" specifically in addition to an "emergency vehicle" option (there's already an option for speed cameras). However, I don't think it would really have much effect on anything in the real world. How often do you see an ambulance or fire truck just parked along the road without a related road closure? Everyone searching for cops would still know that an emergency vehicle sitting in the median is a cop. If everyone knows it's a cop anyway, a generic "Police" option is kind of nice because you're alerting people to his presence (which results in more careful driving) without giving away whether or not he's in a position to ticket (speedtrap vs. accident/existing traffic stop) a speeder who's just trying to avoid getting caught breaking the law. It achieves the desired goal of alerting the driver to a hazard and driving more carefully, without giving the speeder full notice of whether or not he can continue breaking the law without worry.

Invisibill for pres

For the last time.... The first post... in a Dec. 30 letter, LAPD Police Chief Charlie Beck cited last month's killings and told Google CEO Larry Page, "Your company's 'Waze' app... poses a danger to the lives of police officers in the United States."
And since there is no connection between last month's killings and the Waze app, what does it make LAPD Police Chief Charlie Beck?

We don't need this app. We don't need people butting into our business unnecessarily even more.

And since there is no connection between last month's killings and the Waze app, what does it make LAPD Police Chief Charlie Beck?

http://changingminds.org/principles/distraction.htm

Sorry boys, I have better things to do...going back to the kitchen. I hope I don't burn the food.

My opinion was never up for debate, it's an opinion and its mine. I am not trying to change your mind on what you believe, and again I could of debated both sides. Both are good and bad, I picked one 50/50 chance of it not being what the majority wants. But, with out my opinion this thread would of died long ago. So, now I have home work and house work and my audit at work is due.

Sorry boys, I have better things to do...going back to the kitchen. I hope I don't burn the food.

My opinion was never up for debate, it's an opinion and its mine. I am not trying to change your mind on what you believe, and again I could of debated both sides. Both are good and bad, I picked one 50/50 chance of it not being what the majority wants. But, with out my opinion this thread would of died long ago. So, now I have home work and house work and my audit at work is due.

Interesting thing every one is fighting about them keeping it but its a way for police to track you. considering it shows what speed others are doing its a good tool for the cops.

So since any app on any smart phone; lets just ban all smartphones, apps, cell phones, rocks, flip phones, pencils, plastic bags, and medical devices etc etc. Cause each and every one of those has had a part in some persons death at one point or another in history.

Oh an buckets too... You know babies can drown in a bucket

Sorry boys, I have better things to do...going back to the kitchen. I hope I don't burn the food.

My opinion was never up for debate, it's an opinion and its mine. I am not trying to change your mind on what you believe, and again I could of debated both sides. Both are good and bad, I picked one 50/50 chance of it not being what the majority wants. But, with out my opinion this thread would of died long ago. So, now I have home work and house work and my audit at work is due.

having such a firm stance on your own opinion is a disservice to your fellow humans.

everyone needs to understand that their opinion can be wrong. you can be wrong. i can be wrong. we can all be wrong, and probably are wrong most of the time. (obligatory godwin's law) hitlers opinion was wrong. so you saying that your opinion is not up for debate... this is the same as a religious person who is unwilling to discuss with an atheist why they believe in god. "I just have faith" they say. if your opinions are based on facts from reality and not fallacies and lies and untested ideas, then you should be open to discussing your opinions and how they were formed. if your opinion is based on facts, you should be able to properly communicate those facts and how they contribute to the opinion formed. because if those facts aren't logically conclusive to the opinion you formed, you are in fact forming an incorrect opinion.

too many people forget that opinion is FORMED from your view of the world. it is not something that just exists in you already and the outside world must get to it. your opinion will change as time goes on because your view of the outside world changes as time goes on. more information becomes available to you. things look different on the other side of the grass.

do you have the same opinion as you did as a child? are humans of the opposite sex still "icky"? does the tooth fairy collect your fallen teeth? of course not because your opinion on the matter has changed from your learning about each subject. i'm still trying to trap that damn easter bunny though.

So since any app on any smart phone; lets just ban all smartphones, apps, cell phones, rocks, flip phones, pencils, plastic bags, and medical devices etc etc. Cause each and every one of those has had a part in some persons death at one point or another in history.

Oh an buckets too... You know babies can drown in a bucket

yeah! lets go north korea on this sucka~!

So since any app on any smart phone; lets just ban all smartphones, apps, cell phones, rocks, flip phones, pencils, plastic bags, and medical devices etc etc. Cause each and every one of those has had a part in some persons death at one point or another in history.

Oh an buckets too... You know babies can drown in a bucket

Not just babies alex almost die in one last week

last week? ...every week...

Knowing what is on the road (hazards) is good. The cop thing CAN have a negative impact that CAN out weigh the positive. That is all I was trying to point out..

I never said make it illegal, I just said I see both sides and decided to debate the side of law enforcement.
I support our rights for freedom, anytime something is made illegal there is always something else the govt tries to slip past. More laws = less freedom.

All I am doing is pointing out why I agree it CAN be dangerous...Debates on the internet can also be dangerous to your health, when others want to engage like high school kids. Just because you disagree with my OPINION doesn't mean it is all wrong. I never said illegal or to get rid of apps....


it's an opinion and its mine. I am not trying to change your mind on what you believe, and again I could of debated both sides. Both are good and bad, I picked one 50/50 chance of it not being what the majority wants. But, with out my opinion this thread would of died long ago.

Sturing the pot...on the stove...

I am just a silly girl, obviously I am wrong and should stick to cooking.....

I don't agree with removing the app like the chief wants, but to modify it or investigate other issues it could pose would be a good idea. Just because you think it is right doesn't mean it is... And just because you think my opinion sucks doesn't mean it doesn't hold any value.
You should be happy I even engaged in the conversation, what else could you have done with your time and energy? After all it is winter and us ladies can handle our PMS.

Sturing the pot...on the stove...

I am just a silly girl, obviously I am wrong and should stick to cooking.....

I don't agree with removing the app like the chief wants, but to modify it or investigate other issues it could pose would be a good idea. Just because you think it is right doesn't mean it is... And just because you think my opinion sucks doesn't mean it doesn't hold any value.
You should be happy I even engaged in the conversation, what else could you have done with your time and energy? After all it is winter and us ladies can handle our PMS.

Silly women the only place women have on the internet is porn.

Silly women the only place women have on the internet is porn.

That's what my mom said!

Sorry boys, I have better things to do...going back to the kitchen. I hope I don't burn the food.

http://i.imgur.com/Ja8cUVr.jpg

Sturing the pot...on the stove...

I am just a silly girl, obviously I am wrong and should stick to cooking.....

I don't agree with removing the app like the chief wants, but to modify it or investigate other issues it could pose would be a good idea. Just because you think it is right doesn't mean it is... And just because you think my opinion sucks doesn't mean it doesn't hold any value.
You should be happy I even engaged in the conversation, what else could you have done with your time and energy? After all it is winter and us ladies can handle our PMS.

So when it turns out that your opinion is just plain stupid, you chose to hide behind women liberation? Oh, and "let's investigate other issues it could pose", that's some perennial schtick that never gets old.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-W5JV5hS/0/O/i-W5JV5hS.gif

So when it turns out that your opinion is just plain stupid, you chose to hide behind women liberation? Oh, and "let's investigate other issues it could pose", that's some perennial schtick that never gets old.

I don't hide. I also have the right to no longer engage in a thread that is constantly derailed from the original topic. Its an opinion not a fact, get over it. I am not going to take this **** any longer. I pointed out the girl thing for sarcasm, just because I chose a side that disagreed with you does not give you the right to belittle me. A proper debate sticks to opinions, points of view and facts on the topic. This particularly thread was on opinion, or at least that is what I was debating, one of my opinions.

Now, I will let it go because I do have better thing's to do. I also choose not to use my phone when driving, so I have no use for this type of app of at this time.

:behindsofa:

I also choose not to use my phone when driving, so I have no use for this type of app of at this time.

Out of curiosity - how do you find your way on unfamiliar roads?
Paper maps?

Stop being mean to snot :pillowfight:

Out of curiosity - how do you find your way on unfamiliar roads?
Paper maps?

I am not a moron...

1: I use a GPS in my car
2: written or memorize directions
3: I pull in to gas stations or other parking areas when I need to verify a route.
4: I don't randomly drive on unfamiliar roads unless I am intentionally trying to get lost.

I also know how to tell direction based on the Sun, shadows, stars and moss.

Out of curiosity - how do you find your way on unfamiliar roads?
Paper maps?

I have agreed with most of your posts in this thread but your last 2 posts are very out of line.
Stop

Is it odd that I have one of those big books full of maps... Those things are like fossils (an atlas) :rotflmao:

Stop being mean to Polly an give him a cracker :pillowfight:

I live on waze but when my gf and I go on a road trip she gets paper maps

Sturing the pot...on the stove...

I am just a silly girl, obviously I am wrong and should stick to cooking.....

I don't agree with removing the app like the chief wants, but to modify it or investigate other issues it could pose would be a good idea. Just because you think it is right doesn't mean it is... And just because you think my opinion sucks doesn't mean it doesn't hold any value.
You should be happy I even engaged in the conversation, what else could you have done with your time and energy? After all it is winter and us ladies can handle our PMS.

california has very strict no-cellphone-use rules that very clearly exempts using a cellphone for navigation/gps or directions.
waze is a navigation app with a feature for users to report what they see on the road. nothing more than that.
posting a notification while you are driving would break that law, because you are using your phone for a non-navigation-required action. so if you want to post them you need to stop, or have a passenger.

you are right that using any tool for malice is wrong. i believe (and i think many others here also share my belief) that we should not have to give up our constitutional rights because a few assholes are crazy murderers. being a police officer is a dangerous job. by definition. you deal with the danger to protect others from it. that is what the job is. and so some guy killed some cops. it's terrible and ****ed up. does that mean the police should start dictating what apps we can use, and how we can use them? i believe that going in that direction is a bad idea. i believe when you let small things encroach into your world because of a confined incident you change your society and you change what world children are raised in. it becomes the normal, instead of "temporary, because of ..." there is no "because of", just "is".

let's look at what happened for what it actually was. a distraught chief who was seriously disturbed by losing two of his officers. keep that in mind when you read what he says. would you put much weight behind the words of a grieving widow crying at a funeral? i don't think so.

I had to download this waze... I'm in a stroller goin down the road with my passy

I also choose not to use my phone when driving, so I have no use for this type of app of at this time.


1: I use a GPS in my car


My point being, Waze is GPS.

Is it odd that I have one of those big books full of maps... Those things are like fossils (an atlas) :rotflmao:

Try to show it to a teenager and ask to find a route :bounce:

Try to show it to a teenager and ask to find a route :bounce:

They need to learn for the "Zombie Apocalypse"

My friends brought a toddler to an art show recently, he crawled up to a photo on the wall and tried to swipe it to show the next picture. True story.

My point being, Waze is GPS.

I use a Garmin. Not an app as a gps, it is a device that is strictly a GPS.

my teenager can read a map, but she is a girl scout.

Again, I am pro rights. I don't believe we need a law for every little thing. I am pro gun, and pro freedom of speech.... Which also gives me a right to my opinions, right or wrong.
All I ever said was I could see the chiefs point, I also think the app is useful if you are running from the law as well. Then you can use the app on foot, no worrying about driving distracted. :rolleyes:

Now, can you can back off? Find someone else to pick on....

I use a Garmin. Not an app as a gps, it is a device that is strictly a GPS.


What's the difference? It's the same hardware, and almost the same software.


Now, can you can back off? Find someone else to pick on....
I am not picking on you, I am genuinely curious. If you find my curiosity offensive, don't answer my questions. But that'd be a pity...

my teenager can read a map, but she is a girl scout.

Hooray for girl scouts! They'll save the human civilization one day.

I use a Garmin. Not an app as a gps, it is a device that is strictly a GPS.

my teenager can read a map, but she is a girl scout.

Again, I am pro rights. I don't believe we need a law for every little thing. I am pro gun, and pro freedom of speech.... Which also gives me a right to my opinions, right or wrong.
All I ever said was I could see the chiefs point, I also think the app is useful if you are running from the law as well. Then you can use the app on foot, no worrying about driving distracted. :rolleyes:

Now, can you can back off? Find someone else to pick on....

It doesn't show every cop, and they are free to move around as is everyone else. I don't see any use in it if you're running from the law.

I am not picking on you, I am genuinely curious. If you find my curiosity offensive

So when it turns out that your opinion is just plain stupid, you chose to hide behind women liberation? Oh, and "let's investigate other issues it could pose", that's some perennial schtick that never gets old.
You are disingenuous

if a cop is doing his job, those reports would be out of date in like 2 minutes

Hooray for girl scouts! They'll save the human civilization one day.
now you are being condescending

You are disingenuous

That post was admittedly harsh, but that's my standard response to an attempt to shut down the discussion by guilt-tripping the audience, after which the discussion continues to flow, as evident here.

now you are being condescending

Don't put words in my mouth. I absolutely mean it. My daughter cannot wait to be big enough...

The Garmin is not interactive, so users do not feel compelled to add traffic updates while driving. A GPS is only a map that shows a route and where you are, nothing more.

I am not trying to shutdown a discussion, just asked you stop including me. I have nothing else to add about the app.

did you know that using a paper map while driving is legal

did you know that using a paper map while driving is legal

It is covered under driving impaired or distracted, I think.
That's why I park in a parking lot if I need to review a map.

The Garmin is not interactive, so users do not feel compelled to add traffic updates while driving. A GPS is only a map that shows a route and where you are, nothing more.

I don't own a separate GPS, so I am not sure how useful it is, but how about this?

http://www8.garmin.com/traffic/

That post was admittedly harsh, but that's my standard response to an attempt to shut down the discussion by guilt-tripping the audience, after which the discussion continues to flow, as evident here.

That post was likely a violation of TOS and you got a no no from the Big Boss and if continues he will shut this thread down. Not a help to its continuation

Don't put words in my mouth. I absolutely mean it. My daughter cannot wait to be big enough...

I put no words in your mouth. The post, in context with your other posts, looks to be very condescending to anyone. With your clarification, I will except you did not mean to come across that way. :reserving_judgment:

I am not a moron...

1: I use a GPS in my car
2: written or memorize directions
3: I pull in to gas stations or other parking areas when I need to verify a route.
4: I don't randomly drive on unfamiliar roads unless I am intentionally trying to get lost.

I also know how to tell direction based on the Sun, shadows, stars and moss.
This is more illuminating about your knowledge than anything, unless you're again trying to be funny.

The thing about moss is not true. (Suburban legend? Rural legend?) :cool:

I use a Garmin. Not an app as a gps, it is a device that is strictly a GPS.

my teenager can read a map, but she is a girl scout.

Again, I am pro rights. I don't believe we need a law for every little thing. I am pro gun, and pro freedom of speech.... Which also gives me a right to my opinions, right or wrong.
All I ever said was I could see the chiefs point, I also think the app is useful if you are running from the law as well. Then you can use the app on foot, no worrying about driving distracted. :rolleyes:

Now, can you can back off? Find someone else to pick on....
But you just said you were pro-freedom of speech.

Or does that only apply to those who agree with you. You're not very good at this whole internet discussion thing.....

That post was admittedly harsh, but that's my standard response to an attempt to shut down the discussion by guilt-tripping the audience, after which the discussion continues to flow, as evident here.
I can't +1 this post, so...

QFT.

I can't +1 this post, so...

QFT.

good to know who the trolls are

There may be posters in this thread who are unfamiliar with the TOS here. It's in my sig, as well as at the bottom of every page. 1.4 and 2.1 are the relevant sections, and they are non-negotiable.

But you just said you were pro-freedom of speech.

Or does that only apply to those who agree with you. You're not very good at this whole internet discussion thing.....

I am pro speech say what you want, I don't have to agree with you or listen to you.

And a discussion is: noun
the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

This was not a discussion.

Let's get this thread back on track.

I wanted to see what all the fuss was all about, so I used waze on my way to Jennings FL from KY and back.

Here is what I saw in over 1500 miles of pavement pounding;

1. 90%+ accuracy of road traffic alerts (mostly cars on the side of the road)
2. 5 false positives on cops on the way down
3. 10 or more false positives on the way back
4. 16 accurate traffic cop alerts on the way down
5. 6 accurate traffic cop alerts on the way back
6. A level of staleness based on time of day and amount of traffic (users) on the same road as you

I also saw alerts (check in's) that are their purely for ad purposes. I figger this because the same outback steakhouse was alerted on the way down as the way back. Hmmm... yea right, but Imma stop and eat there on my next trip. lol

Can it be used for good, sure... Can it be used for bad, sure...

Imho, no need to fuss from anyone, anywhere, for anything.

good to know who the trolls are
Really? Because I disagree with you, I'm a troll?

Good to know who the idiots are.

See. Two can play at that game.

I live on waze but when my gf and I go on a road trip she gets paper maps

Really? Because I disagree with you, I'm a troll?

Good to know who the idiots are.

See. Two can play at that game.

I agree with your^^ post 100%
I love my waze. If you had read my posts you would know that.

Worldtraveller is on a short break. No more warnings in this thread.

Funny how easy it is to finger point (I know, I do it myself). Much harder to admit your own error...

http://mediacdn.snorgcontent.com/media/catalog/product/i/l/iliketurtles_fullpic_artwork.jpg

One of my favorite features is the ability to share my drive. When I am headed to my GFs.
I share my ride and send her an ETA and link to a map that shows my current location.
If I get stuck in traffic she can see that and I do not need to call her.

Also I have a couple of coworkers I am friends on Waze when we have the same destination like every morning on the way to work. While I can not see exactly where they are, like when I share my ride with the GF, I can see, and they can see, my progress.

Can that be used for stocking me? Only people I allow.

That would be great for solo bike trips!

I use Waze frequently. The police notification is not always about speed traps, but just the car parked on the shoulder.
Approaching traffic is warned about a stopped police cruiser well in advance of the area, this means people slow down and look out for emergency vehicles. This makes the traffic cop's job much safer, as many of them get run down on highway stops.
For speed traps, yes, it is a deterrent to speeding, but isn't that the point of speed traps? At some point, regions have become addicted to speed trap revenue, and the concept of road safety is ignored.
The idea that Waze is used to target cops is ridiculous, if they don't want to get seen, they why the flashing lights and black-and white paint?

As for the reporting.. I don't do this unless traffic is at a standstill, it is distracting and unsafe.

That would be great for solo bike trips!

That is true, I did not know it had this feature. Can a person linked see if you are no longer moving?
I don't use apps for gps or while driving, so I don't know all the features it has.

miami cops decide to screw with waze reports, use it to their advantage.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/12/8025209/waze-miami-cops-false-reporting-google-traffic-app

Looks like they don't understand how computers work...

I also think there's more going on than is being reported.

If cops are reporting their own locations, then it saves us the trouble. Thanks guys! If cops are reporting their own locations, then I guess they're not that concerned about being targeted by crazy killers either. Thanks for pointing out that the original argument was stupid!

(For people unfamiliar with the app, it only lets you make reports at your current location. If you have full access to your device (rooted/jailbroken), it's possible to feed the app incorrect GPS coordinates to make it think you're in a different location, but the phone needs to be "located" where you want to make the report. You can't just go in and click all over the map and add cops everywhere.)


Waze also allows users to verify the accuracy of information in the app, and creates a ranking system that places trustworthy users at the top. It's likely these Miami cops will be flagged as untrustworthy before too many drivers are fooled.

If they're just randomly reporting police locations as they drive around (as opposed to when they're sitting somewhere), they'll quickly be marked as not actually there, and the reporting accounts will get modded down until their reports don't count for anything. Congrats on fooling one person per report for a week or whatever. *shrug* Also, making a bunch of reports as you drive around is doing a lot more to track you and aid stalking, if that's what you're really worried about.


https://www.waze.com/legal/tos
USE RESTRICTIONS
You may not, whether yourself or through any other means or person : (xiii) use the Service and/or Site for any illegal, immoral or unauthorized purpose;

Some might say that deliberately making false reports is immoral. In some cases (outside the realm of smartphone apps), making a false report is a crime even.

Once again, it seems like even if they're not "bad cops", they think they're above the rules that everyone else has to follow. Maybe if you all stop acting like dicks, we'll stop thinking you're all dicks...


For speed traps, yes, it is a deterrent to speeding, but isn't that the point of speed traps? At some point, regions have become addicted to speed trap revenue, and the concept of road safety is ignored.

This. I understand that everyone wants the government to provide them with all sorts of nice services without having to pay any taxes, and money has to come from somewhere. But if a major focus of being a cop is making money off traffic fines (a sum imposed as punishment for an offense (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fine)), then we're doing things completely wrong. The point is supposed to be punishing people for bad behavior so they stop doing it, not the ongoing financing of the entire PD.

We might as well route all the city's power through an electric chair, so that we have to do non-stop executions if we want electricity. Think of all the horrible criminals that would be stopped if we needed them to get power! What could possibly go wrong, amirite?

in california (not sure elsewhere) speed traps are illegal. a police officer is not allowed to make the same citation in the same location in a single day. does that mean they don't sit at the bottom of that blind hill waiting for people who haven't noticed the hill brought their speed over the limit? no. does that mean they don't hand out 20 tickets in the same spot in one day? no. police don't try to keep from breaking laws. that's not their concern. their concern is to catch people who break laws who are not police. there is a very large disconnect here because of unwritten rules about pulling over enforcement vehicles. my brother has told me tons of stories about how in the 90s the CHP and sherrifs would pull each other over and issue citations and it really got bad until the heads told everyone to stop pulling each other over. now they simply are above the law unless someone dies an obviously BS death.

We might as well route all the city's power through an electric chair, so that we have to do non-stop executions if we want electricity. Think of all the horrible criminals that would be stopped if we needed them to get power! What could possibly go wrong, amirite?

:rotflmao::clapping: