So doing some research for my project bike and learning a little bit about rake and trail so I can make a decent decision when choosing a front end to slap onto my project frame/bike.

The trail numbers in a simplistic view seem pretty easy to understand.

Higher number = stability at speed, less agility (think that word works here)
and the opposite for lower numbers. Obviously there is going to be a middle ground which seems to generally be in the 3"-4" range for trail numbers give or take.

All this being said, looking at some numbers of bikes the new gen 250 has rake/trail of 26degrees/3.2" and the N300 is listed at 27degrees/3.7"

Anyone have both a 250 and a 300? do you notice much of a difference?
Is there more to it? I am sure it is a little more complicated than these 2 values.

I don't own a newgen 250 but I rode csmith12 's last weekend at jennings

the 250 feels lighter, particularly at corner entry (this goes for the pregen as well, especially my pregen but I don't have the stock geometry)

The 300 feels more stable in faster corners but the 250 still feels good, especially chris'
Overall it's pretty minor, I actually prefer the newgen 250 as a track bike since it feels more nimble than the 300 and doesn't feel like it's down on power at all since all the real power gains of the 300 are found in the midrange torque

reading up on this really gives you and idea of how much really goes into designing motorcycles and every small piece comes together to give it the desired geometry which translates into the handling :thumbup:

pretty popular discussion going on :thumbup:

I was thinking, the trail on my 250 is probably a little less than the stock 3.2" since I raised the rear just a hair. And again since a low trail can lead to instability at speed and or speed wobble type stuff :eek:

I noticed when my front end gets light over humps and bumps that my steering wobbles pretty bad :confused: I wonder if this is part of the issue?

pretty popular discussion going on :thumbup:

I was thinking, the trail on my 250 is probably a little less than the stock 3.2" since I raised the rear just a hair. And again since a low trail can lead to instability at speed and or speed wobble type stuff :eek:

I noticed when my front end gets light over humps and bumps that my steering wobbles pretty bad :confused: I wonder if this is part of the issue?

hows your stem bearings? maybe go with tapered bearings, also the fork is too mushy imo.

Steering stem feels tight, i have my forks re-sprung and with emulators so they are pretty decent.

pretty popular discussion going on :thumbup:

I was thinking, the trail on my 250 is probably a little less than the stock 3.2" since I raised the rear just a hair. And again since a low trail can lead to instability at speed and or speed wobble type stuff :eek:

I noticed when my front end gets light over humps and bumps that my steering wobbles pretty bad :confused: I wonder if this is part of the issue?

typically we just refer to the front and rear heights. but my favorite setup was 24* at about 2.8".

but anyway the problem you're talking about sounds like its oversprung and not riding far enough into the suspension

typically we just refer to the front and rear heights. but my favorite setup was 24* at about 2.8".

but anyway the problem you're talking about sounds like its oversprung and not riding far enough into the suspension

If i said by "light over humps" i actually meant getting air over jumps would that change your diagnosis? :behindsofa:

Can't remember off the top of my head but i think i did set my sag on the lower end of the recommended range, that being said, i have good travel on the forks. I measured that too but again cant remember off the top of my head. I should have it all written down somewhere... but then again that doesn't mean that i do :rotflmao:

usually unless you're under 23* it wont wob hard coming down unless you're really putting the front down hard... is your rear off too? maybe just give it more gas coming down

I wanna build a 300 chopper for shits an giggles.

I wanna build a 300 chopper for shits an giggles.

gimme money and i'll build you one :D

gimme money and i'll build you one :D

What part of me building one includes paying you to supervise :rolleyes:

usually unless you're under 23* it wont wob hard coming down unless you're really putting the front down hard... is your rear off too? maybe just give it more gas coming down

solution to every motorcycle problem :vroom: MORE THROTTLE! :dancecool: :rotflmao:

........
Is there more to it? I am sure it is a little more complicated than these 2 values.

"Rake: From our experiments it seems there is nothing magical in the conventional rake angle of 27 to 28 degrees.
.......
Trail: Results were satisfactory throughout the full test range, so making personal preference the decisive factor."

Read full article here:
http://tonyfoale.com/Articles/RakeEx/RakeEx.htm

:crazyloco: :crazyloco: :crazyloco:

solution to every motorcycle problem :vroom: MORE THROTTLE! :dancecool: :rotflmao:

when in doubt...

subxero - usually the balancing point for rake/trail is as steep as possible for the weight of the gross weight of the vehicle. As you said, increased rake results in increased trail which results in great stability. The reason is because the rear wheel has a stable direction to transfer forward momentum through. Conversely, if the rake is too steep for the power/weight of the motorcycle rapid acceleration/deceleration can result in a tank slapper.

This is why a chopper will never suffer a tank slapper. It is also why a chopper can't turn...

Now, what that mathematical relationship is between weight/speed and fork angle, I do not know. Factory numbers are usually pretty good guides. Overall, unless you're planning on racing this custom machine, you won't be going fast enough to need such an aggressive rake/trail, so pull it back and make it nice and comfortable for yourself....

I wanna build a 300 chopper for shits an giggles.

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/74ChryslerConqueror/My%20Chopper/PRE_2012-03-18-154826.jpg
User Profile - Ex500Chopper (http://www.ex-500.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10102)

Sweet... I wouldn't put the king an queen seat though; Romeo isn't the type to sit still