Hello, another newbie question here. I tried searching for an answer but can not find one.:confused:

Lets say I am doing about 45 mph in 5 gear and I am coming to a stop sign, do I need to downshift each gear, pulling the clutch in, and letting it out (4-3-2-1), or can I just hold the clutch in, and downshift multiple times until I hit 1st gear?

I guess the best way to summarize it would be, is there any harm done to the engine/transmission when shifting gears up or down while continuously holding the clutch?

Thanks!

you can hold the clutch down while cycling to downshift

Hello, another newbie question here. I tried searching for an answer but can not find one.:confused:

Lets say I am doing about 45 mph in 5 gear and I am coming to a stop sign, do I need to downshift each gear, pulling the clutch in, and letting it out (4-3-2-1), or can I just hold the clutch in, and downshift multiple times until I hit 1st gear?

I guess the best way to summarize it would be, is there any harm done to the engine/transmission when shifting gears up or down while continuously holding the clutch?

Thanks!

Downshifting helps you slow down without having to overuse your breaks, It is a good idea to get used to doing so. There is no damage shifting down multiple gears with the clutch held in, it is necessary at times.

Just be careful with your downshifts, letting out in too low of a gear at too high of a speed can cause you to break traction. In a turn it can be fatal.

There's nothing wrong with holding the clutch in and just downshifting all the way to 1st while you coast to a stop. However, learning to downshift smoothly (ie: proper rev matching) is a crucial skill that should be practiced as well.

If you're unsure about any of this, please try it out in a big, open parking lot first. Rear braking, combined with a sloppy, multi-geared down shift will cause the back tire to lock up. Also, a mis-timed blip of the throttle may cause you to lurch forward unexpectedly. Practice is key.

Dave, have you taken the MSF yet? This is something they will cover- you should sign up soon if you haven't already!

Dave, have you taken the MSF yet? This is something they will cover- you should sign up soon if you haven't already!

i think most of the members on here would agree about this too. :thumbup:

oh and be careful downshifting into 1st if you're going over 15-20mph, it doesn't feel too good IMO

:whathesaid:

Thanks for all the responses!:thumbup:

I did take the MSF course and passed, the problem is that the course only required us to go into 2nd gear and not higher, which is why I was questioning if I could shift multiple gears at once. I have driven a manual transmission car for a long time, it is just way different when doing it on a motorcycle.

I know you guys said shifting down multiple gears is okay, but how about shifting up? I think it would be okay as well, but the scenario I am visualizing is: when I forget or lose track what gear I am in (lets say I am in 4th and I am slowing for a turn and want to be in 3rd), I will down shift to 1st, to find out where I am, then shift up to be in 3rd, is that okay? shifting multiple gears going down, then going up?

Thanks again

. I have driven a manual transmission car for a long time, it is just way different when doing it on a motorcycle.

I would have to disagree. Everything i drive, car, motorcycle and big rig all have the same concept when downshifting. When you reach a certain low rpm you downshift same for upshifting. You learn to listen to your engine and it becomes second nature. But this is my experience. The bike just happens to have a clutch on the handlebar instead of on the foot and shifter on the foot instead of in the hand.

I would have to disagree. Everything i drive, car, motorcycle and big rig all have the same concept when downshifting. When you reach a certain low rpm you downshift same for upshifting. You learn to listen to your engine and it becomes second nature. But this is my experience. The bike just happens to have a clutch on the handlebar instead of on the foot and shifter on the foot instead of in the hand.

I agree it is the same concept, what I was referring to was that you have to shift thru multiple gears (like a ladder) to get where you want to be as opposed to going into neutral with a quick shift (H pattern in a car).

still curious about the question...

I know you guys said shifting down multiple gears is okay, but how about shifting up? I think it would be okay as well, but the scenario I am visualizing is: when I forget or lose track what gear I am in (lets say I am in 4th and I am slowing for a turn and want to be in 3rd), I will down shift to 1st, to find out where I am, then shift up to be in 3rd, is that okay? shifting multiple gears going down, then going up?

Thanks again

I would never do this. Mr. Murphy WILL get you one of these days. You'll get down to 1st and either have a brain fart, releasing the clutch lever out of sheer habit, or something will happen and you'll accidentally let go of it.

Now you're entering a 3rd gear turn and your bike suddenly lurches into 1st.

That would be a Bad Thing.

It's tempting to think "I would never do something so stupid" but consider this: Since you drive manual transmission cars, have you ever found yourself going for the clutch when you borrow or rent an auto trans car?

The bigger brake pedal is often right where the clutch ought to be. I've hit it (LURCH!!!), and it's a fair bet that most honest manual trans drivers will admit to doing the same at some point.

The fact that you can envision forgetting which gear you're in suggests you also realize that it's possible to make really simple mistakes.

BTW... I agree with the earlier posters about the wisdom of using engine braking and downshifting through the gears as you slow. It does a couple of things for you:

- It keeps you near the right gear in case you need to make an emergency maneuver that requires power.
- It's way more fun.

Indeed. I would rather bog the bike along in 4th than attempt to go to 1st then 3rd. That's just begging for a wipeout.

I would never do this. Mr. Murphy WILL get you one of these days. You'll get down to 1st and either have a brain fart, releasing the clutch lever out of sheer habit, or something will happen and you'll accidentally let go of it.

Now you're entering a 3rd gear turn and your bike suddenly lurches into 1st.

That would be a Bad Thing.

It's tempting to think "I would never do something so stupid" but consider this: Since you drive manual transmission cars, have you ever found yourself going for the clutch when you borrow or rent an auto trans car?

The bigger brake pedal is often right where the clutch ought to be. I've hit it (LURCH!!!), and it's a fair bet that most honest manual trans drivers will admit to doing the same at some point.

The fact that you can envision forgetting which gear you're in suggests you also realize that it's possible to make really simple mistakes.

BTW... I agree with the earlier posters about the wisdom of using engine braking and downshifting through the gears as you slow. It does a couple of things for you:

- It keeps you near the right gear in case you need to make an emergency maneuver that requires power.
- It's way more fun.

Indeed. I would rather bog the bike along in 4th than attempt to go to 1st then 3rd. That's just begging for a wipeout.

I totally agree with you guys, I was just wondering if it damages the bike by doing that, not necessarily saying I will do it... and yes I have gone to shift gears when in an automatic car... LOL:D

I totally agree with you guys, I was just wondering if it damages the bike by doing that, not necessarily saying I will do it... and yes I have gone to shift gears when in an automatic car... LOL:D

I don't think it'd damage the bike by itself.

The damage happens when you grab 1st when you shouldn't and go down....

;)

I know you guys said shifting down multiple gears is okay, but how about shifting up? I think it would be okay as well, but the scenario I am visualizing is: when I forget or lose track what gear I am in (lets say I am in 4th and I am slowing for a turn and want to be in 3rd), I will down shift to 1st, to find out where I am, then shift up to be in 3rd, is that okay? shifting multiple gears going down, then going up?

There's nothing wrong with doing this, except for the fact that your mind is now focused on the task of finding the "right" gear instead of out on the road where it should be. I know what you're talking about in terms of getting confused and forgetting what gear you're in, but really it doesn't necessarily matter what "number" gear you're in. You should know whether or not you need to downshift by feel.

It would be good to practice this in your car, as the skill and intuition you develop from this translates over onto the bike well. It's not necessarily the same, mind you, but the basics are there.

I'll occasionally downshift through the gears to first as I'm coasting to a stop sign/light with the clutch in, but I never, never let the clutch out until the bike is at a complete stop and I'm in neutral after checking my mirrors to see if that cager behind me is going to make that stop or not.

I also never, never skip gears while upshifting.... what's the point?

Learn to listen to your engine... after awhile it will tell you through sound and feel if you need to up or downshift or if you're in the right gear.

:whathesaid: Look at it this way - try to keep you bike in the gear appropriate for the speed you are moving. No matter what you have to do (accelerate or turn) you are in the right gear. Unless I'm on the highway I'm always looking to be in the 6-8K range no matter the mph.

I started out letting the clutch out for each downshift, but quickly found it better to just keep the clutch in and shift down through the box as the bike slows (it's not much of a coaster). If I need to go somewhere, I just let the clutch out. Practicing my coastdown/downshift technique makes rev matching in this situation very easy.

I've also driven manual cars for years so,as Flashmonkey said, this helps. Also, instead of thinking, "I want to be in third for this corner", I think, "I want to drop two gears for this next corner." It comes with practice.

:whathesaid: Look at it this way - try to keep you bike in the gear appropriate for the speed you are moving. No matter what you have to do (accelerate or turn) you are in the right gear. Unless I'm on the highway I'm always looking to be in the 6-8K range no matter the mph.

+1. Big LIFE SAVER skill. Good advice for newbie.

Hello, another newbie question here. I tried searching for an answer but can not find one.:confused:

Lets say I am doing about 45 mph in 5 gear and I am coming to a stop sign, do I need to downshift each gear, pulling the clutch in, and letting it out (4-3-2-1), or can I just hold the clutch in, and downshift multiple times until I hit 1st gear?

I guess the best way to summarize it would be, is there any harm done to the engine/transmission when shifting gears up or down while continuously holding the clutch?

Thanks!

get used to hearing your engine wind down and downshift , its good practice when your also wanting to slow down before a sharp turn and be in gear not coasting with your hand holding the clutch in.

Another old fart here- it's impossible to over estimate the importance of shifting. It's probably the hardest thing for a beginner to learn, and even experienced riders miss a shift occasionally. What Old Guy said is the key; always know what gear you are in. This will be especially difficult for people who drive automatic cars, and of course, motorcycle transmissions are mechanically completely different from car transmissions. Think of it like the difference between a computer tape drive and a hard drive. In a car, like the hard drive, you can go directly to any gear (including reverse while moving in some cars!), but a bike is sequential (like the tape drive). You have to go through 2nd to get to 3rd, etc., regardless of whether or not you let the clutch out. The shift lever on the bike is attached through a linkage to a shift drum inside the transmission. This drum has channels in which the shift forks ride. When the drum rotates, the forks are pushed by the slanted channels in the drum and move the gears into position. Each time the drum rotates, the appropriate fork moves the proper gear into position on it's shaft, and when you get to 6th, you start rotating the drum back to it's original position (1st gear). I only bore you all with these details because I actually think that it helps to understand how the thing works- take an old bike apart if you get the chance, just to see the inside for yourself.

I don't think there's any easy way to learn shifting, it's just practice, practice, practice. But the problem is, getting confused can be very dangerous, not to mention bad for the engine and transmission.

And as for your original question, yes, anytime you stop, even a panic stop, you should downshift all the way to first with the clutch in. This does not mean that you can't let the clutch out for each downshift, but it's not necessary if you are coming to a complete stop. But in a really serious stopping situation, forget the shifting, pull in the clutch and concentrate on braking. You can find neutral when your heart stops pounding.

Chris

+1 for engine braking and everything posted here. Not only is it good to practice downshifting and rev matching for turns etc. but keeping it in the right gear while you're braking gives you the ability to accelerate quickly to avoid an emergency (i.e. speeding cager that doesn't see the red light) instead of bogging down in the incorrect gear.

I'll occasionally downshift through the gears to first as I'm coasting to a stop sign/light with the clutch in, but I never, never let the clutch out until the bike is at a complete stop and I'm in neutral after checking my mirrors to see if that cager behind me is going to make that stop or not.

I also never, never skip gears while upshifting.... what's the point?

Learn to listen to your engine... after awhile it will tell you through sound and feel if you need to up or downshift or if you're in the right gear.

+1

I do exactly the same thing... one gear at a time and let the clutch out nice and easy while lightly applying the brakes. Once I am below 10 MPH I just hold the clutch in and just give it a little more brake until I am completely stopped. I always leave it in 1st gear unless it's a long light and the car behind me has already seen me and stopped. I also like to move to one side of the lane or the other when I stop to give myself a spot to move to in case the guy behind me doesn't see me.

+1

I do exactly the same thing... one gear at a time and let the clutch out nice and easy while lightly applying the brakes. Once I am below 10 MPH I just hold the clutch in and just give it a little more brake until I am completely stopped. I always leave it in 1st gear unless it's a long light and the car behind me has already seen me and stopped. I also like to move to one side of the lane or the other when I stop to give myself a spot to move to in case the guy behind me doesn't see me.

This is also a good idea because of oil, anti-freeze, and other drippings from cars and truck seems to be on the middle of the lane at a stop.

This is also a good idea because of oil, anti-freeze, and other drippings from cars and truck seems to be on the middle of the lane at a stop.

CONGRATULATIONS CC COWBOY! This was the 50,000th post on ninjette.org. What do you win? Nothing. :rotflmao: Just thought you'd like to know. :thumbup:

Yea for me! I didn't think I have posted that much but who am I to agrue.

being new to the motorcycle fourms and such, what is a Cager? sorry but i had to ask! thanks:o

Anyone driving a car. ("trapped in a cage")

Anyone driving a car. ("trapped in a cage")

ROFL... thanks for the 411! thats funny, whom comes up with these things? heh is there a 'slangs to know' sticky on this Fourm? curious

I know you guys said shifting down multiple gears is okay, but how about shifting up? I think it would be okay as well, but the scenario I am visualizing is: when I forget or lose track what gear I am in (lets say I am in 4th and I am slowing for a turn and want to be in 3rd), I will down shift to 1st, to find out where I am, then shift up to be in 3rd, is that okay? shifting multiple gears going down, then going up?

Learn to ride by "feel". If you feel like the rev's are a bit low before you go into a turn, blip the throttle, downshift, and get in the right gear. By the time you'd shift down to 1st and back to the "right gear", a few things will happen...
1. the turn will have already started
2. your rev's would have dropped to idle (which is not good since you are at speed)
3. by the time you find the "right gear", since you are going slower, it is now the wrong gear

If the rev's need to jump a little, downshift and don't worry about what gear you are in...unless your speed is just over a snail's pace. I always use the rule, if you are moving forward at a pace over 10mph, do not drop to 1st gear, use 2nd. 1st will upset the bike too much, especially if you are on a track (granted, this is for the short 1st gears on these smaller bikes).

Find a neighborhood where they are building. There are sure to be streets that aren't being used. Go out there and practice, get the hang of RPM to speed ratios.

For instance, I know that at 45mph my tach is reading 5500RPM in 6th gear. I glance down, see that and I know immediately that I am in 6th. You need this kind of knowledge. Once you have it, you'll always know what gear you are in.

I've read all the comments, and I appreciate all the great advice. cwb48, the descirption of how the clutch works helps out a lot! I would love to take a bike apart to see how it works. The problem is whenever I take something apart, TV, computer, car, i'm never interested in putting it back together.:D

anyway, thanks again to everyone for all the pointers, and please add anything else that you may think will be helpful for a newbie. I could never learn enough!:thumbup:

ROFL... thanks for the 411! thats funny, whom comes up with these things? heh is there a 'slangs to know' sticky on this Fourm? curious

It's not specific to this forum, but I have a feeling that this is what you're looking for (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/dictionary/motorcycle-dictionary-index.htm).

I know you guys said shifting down multiple gears is okay, but how about shifting up? I think it would be okay as well, but the scenario I am visualizing is: when I forget or lose track what gear I am in (lets say I am in 4th and I am slowing for a turn and want to be in 3rd), I will down shift to 1st, to find out where I am, then shift up to be in 3rd, is that okay? shifting multiple gears going down, then going up?


I think by now you've probably gathered quite a bit of knowledge from all the posts here, but I'd like to echo a couple of things.

Being in your shoes just last summer, this was my biggest fear: that I would forget which gear I was in!! :eek: The only way I got better: PRACTICE! I ride atleast 3 times a week, and every once in a while I'll zip up and down the street to practice u-turns, figure 8's, take offs on slopes, clutch control, etc, etc. The only way you'll get a truly good feel for your motorcycle is if you practice with it as often as possible.

I know it might be hard, but one day that you want to go out for a joyride, just try to make yourself stick around the house and hone your skills on what you practiced in the MSF course.

Just my :2cents: Ride safe and listen to a lot of the veterans, they've got extremely valuable advice (... well, most of them anyway :) ...)