So about a month ago I purchased a motorcycle from a guy. I made the mistake of paying for the bike, filling out a bill of sale, but didnt check the title. The guy I bought the bike from bought it from someone else, and never transferred the title to his name.

I called the guy on it, and he said try and register it with just the bill of sale and if that doesnt work, he'd take care of it, register it in his name and get the new title. Well, of course DMV said no dice.

Now this guy has said that he will not registered the bike for a new title unless I pay the taxes, registration and transfer fees for him. I called BS on that, and told him that wasn't my responsibility and he had no right to sell the bike without having a title to it. He said tough sh!t, i said see you in court.

Well, I called the sheirffs office and spoke to a deputy who kinda walked me through my options, and then had me call the local magistrates office. Well the clerk there was a bit confused and didnt know how to file the paper work. I have 2 options - a request for money or a request for property. I already have the property, and he doesnt owe me any money, so I really dont know what to go for.

I kinda want to just say f'em and sue for the cost of the bike, and he can have the thing back, but im not sure if thats possible.

I do have a lawyer in the family, and she suggested to file it for property, as he sold me the bike and the title, and didnt deliver. Just curious as to what the masses thought of this situation, and if anyone else had a similar situation they were able to resolve.

Are you saying that you don't want to pay for the taxes, registration and transfer fees? Why do you need him to transfer the title to his name?
Even if the title is in his name you will still have to pay the taxes, registration and transfer fees. It doesn't matter if the title is in his name or the previous' owner name. When you bring the title to the dmv to register you will have to pay for the taxes, registration and fee and they will issue a new title under your name. Just bring the title to the dmv, pay the taxes, registration and fees, they'll issue a new title under your name and you're good to good.
Don't forget that you need insurance before you can register.

Are you saying that you don't want to pay for the taxes, registration and transfer fees?
Even if the title is in his name you will still have to pay the taxes, registration and transfer fees. It doesn't matter if the title is in his name or the previous' owner name. When you bring the title to the dmv to register you will have to pay for the taxes, registration and fee and they will issue a new title under your name.

He's not trying to skirt paying for HIS fees, he's trying to get the asshat that sold him the bike to pay to get it done so that he can legally sell it to Tommy.

* Seller A sold the bike to seller B and filled out the title.

* Seller B sold the bike to Tommy.

* Seller B never transfered the title to himself, thus, on paper in the state's records, seller A is still the legal owner of the bike (although he has signed the release to seller B).

* Seller A released the title to seller B, NOT Tommy.

* The local DMV won't recognize the bill of sale and release of title from seller A to Tommy, as seller A sold the bike to seller B and seller B's info is on the title as the new owner, and seller B does not have a clear title with a blank back and has not paid the sales tax or title issuance fees.

* It's a licensing/taxation thing. Seller B is responsible for the taxes on the sale and the fees of issuing a new, clear title showing legal ownership of the item. MOST states won't recognize a third party or proxy transfer due to the requirement by law to pay the tax and be issued a new title to the new owner AT EACH AND EVERY TRANSFER of the item.

* Seller B has a legal responsibility to transfer the title to himself in accordance with local code to legally be entitled to sell the bike and transfer the title to Tommy (or anyone else, for that matter).

Most states require that a new title be issued and a sales tax be paid each and every time a title controled item is transfered in ownership. Simply having the title signed and a third or forth owner finally getting around to transfering the title is usually not legal. EACH previous owner is liable for the taxes based on the sale price and the fees for issuing a title. Unfortunately, this ends up screwing the new, often unsuspecting, owner.

I'd say he owes you a clean title, on his own dime, no matter what. That or you get your money back and he gets the bike back.

I would call a lawyer that gives free consultations or a local legal defense fund location. In any case (in my limited experience with small claims court), the judge, even if you filed the claim wrong, will go with the intent of what you filed for.

He's not trying to skirt paying for HIS fees, he's trying to get the asshat that sold him the bike to pay to get it done so that he can legally sell it to Tommy.

I would call a lawyer that gives free consultations or a local legal defense fund location. In any case, the judge, even if you filed in small claims wrong, will go with the intent of what you filed for.

If seller B never register the bike then his name wouldn't be anywhere on the title.
I don't see why he can't bring the title to the dmv and register it under his name. Let's just say John Smith is the previous owner and his name is on the title. Why can't you bring the title to the dvm and register? If you have the title and the insurance there shouldn't be any problem.
People do this all the time especially on collectible items. Alot of people buy collectible cars such as a Ferrari 288GTO and never register and resell it back years later.
It shouldn't prevent the buyer from registering the vehicle.

He never registered the bike when he owned it, therefore, I have a title that is useless to me and I cant register it, until he gets a clean title in his name.

asshat is about right. as big as a douche as he was being, Im really temped to not even offer working this out outside of court.

I was thinking of giving him some options - 1 - tell him wake the up and realize he cant win this and hope he just pays the fees and gets the bike legally titled so he can legally sell it to me, 2 - tell him give me something worth the like $80 itll cost to transfer the title, and then ill pay for it for him, and 3 - if he still wants to fight it, Ill take him to court and let him have the bike back and Ill fight him for the money.

If seller B never register the bike then his name wouldn't be anywhere on the title.
I don't see why he can't bring the title to the dmv and register it under his name. Let's just say John Smith is the previous owner and his name is on the title. Why can't you bring the title to the dvm and register? If you have the title and the insurance there shouldn't be any problem.
People do this all the time especially on collectible items. Alot of people buy collectible cars such as a Ferrari 288GTO and never register and resell it back years later.
It shouldn't prevent the buyer from registering the vehicle.


You're missing it. He got the title from owner A. he and owner A filled out the back of the title, saying it was sold to him. They had it notorized, therefore making the title only valid for transfer to him.

In SC, you can not get a new title issued in your name unless the previous title has been signed over to you. Since the previous title was signed over to asshat, I can not register it until after he has gotten a title in his name, with a new spot for title transfer on the back.

You're missing it. He got the title from owner A. he and owner A filled out the back of the title, saying it was sold to him. They had it notorized, therefore making the title only valid for transfer to him.

In SC, you can not get a new title issued in your name unless the previous title has been signed over to you. Since the previous title was signed over to asshat, I can not register it until after he has gotten a title in his name, with a new spot for title transfer on the back.

Yup, only way you would be having trouble! :thumbup:

Seller A was covering his ass. Seller B IS an ass.

If seller B never register the bike then his name wouldn't be anywhere on the title.
I don't see why he can't bring the title to the dmv and register it under his name. Let's just say John Smith is the previous owner and his name is on the title. Why can't you bring the title to the dvm and register? If you have the title and the insurance there shouldn't be any problem.
People do this all the time especially on collectible items. Alot of people buy collectible cars such as a Ferrari 288GTO and never register and resell it back years later.
It shouldn't prevent the buyer from registering the vehicle.

Yes, that's how it normally works if the back of the title has been filled out by the "Seller" only!

And that ONLY works if the seller does not fill out the information for the "Buyer" on the back of the title. In most states, that's NOT legal, either, to leave the "Buyer" information blank when the sale is conducted. No way they can catch you, really.

But if the "Buyer" information is filled out and it's NOT you, the DMV wants their sales tax and title transfer fees, no matter what, from the guy listed in "Buyer". If that ain't you, you're stuck until the guy listed as "Buyer" clears it. And that's where Tommy is stuck.

Exactly.

My aunt (lawyer) said to file a case against him as a property claim, so I think Ill do that today.

What really sucks about this is that in order for him to transfer the old title to his name, he needs a official SC DMV bill of sale form, that has to be signed by the guy he bought it from. If he doesnt have that, im going to have to wait for this guy to track down the guy he bought it from and he'll have to go drive up there, like 2hr drive, and get it from him.

btw - guy sold the bike because he lost his license and his job. Apparently he has gotten a new job since then, but he still cant drive. Should be interesting to see how he manages to get to get out of work for a few days to handle court...

Exactly.

My aunt (lawyer) said to file a case against him as a property claim, so I think Ill do that today.

What really sucks about this is that in order for him to transfer the old title to his name, he needs a official SC DMV bill of sale form, that has to be signed by the guy he bought it from. If he doesnt have that, im going to have to wait for this guy to track down the guy he bought it from and he'll have to go drive up there, like 2hr drive, and get it from him.

btw - guy sold the bike because he lost his license and his job. Apparently he has gotten a new job since then, but he still cant drive. Should be interesting to see how he manages to get to get out of work for a few days to handle court...

Who cares, his problem! (Well, OK, right now it's your problem) Ask the court to give him 30 days or less to comply! That way if he jerks you around, you have the force of court order to get him on contempt of court charges.

well, i just got off the phone with the magistrates office, she's sending me the paper work today. Going to have to pay $65 to file it though. load of crap, some people are just too dumb to live.

I cant believe he doesnt realize that there is no way this is going to end in his favor. Either he's going to have to register the bike, register the bike and pay court fees, or take the bike back, and give me my money back, then have to register it anyways before trying to sell it again.

And this is why u never buy a car, motorcycle, boat. etc from someone who isnt the titled owner, and also doesnt have a clear title in hand...Alot of people try selling you their bikes still oweing the bank money, they tell u they will pay it off as soon as you give them the cash...but once they have the cash, and the bike isnt in their posession any more, they suddenly have no desire to make payments on it....at least shytheads dont..

well, i just got off the phone with the magistrates office, she's sending me the paper work today. Going to have to pay $65 to file it though. load of crap, some people are just too dumb to live.

I cant believe he doesnt realize that there is no way this is going to end in his favor. Either he's going to have to register the bike, register the bike and pay court fees, or take the bike back, and give me my money back, then have to register it anyways before trying to sell it again.

dude sorry to say this but u might as well pay to have title transfered into his name..you are going to pay court fees, and even if u win the case, if the guy doesnt have money, you wont git paid anyway...I'd chalk this up as a learning experience, and just pay for the transfer. The guyz a piece of shyt.

When I purchased my bike the girl still owed money on it. There's nothing wrong with that. You just have to be smart and draft up a contract for the transaction to protect yourself. It's the same as buying a house. In the case of buying a house the bank does everything so you don't have to do anything except to sign your name. Everything should have a contract. When you buy food at the grocery store the receipt is your contract.

Have you tried to register the bike at the dmv?
From my understanding, the title doesn't have to be transferred to him in order for you transfer to your name.

dude sorry to say this but u might as well pay to have title transfered into his name..you are going to pay court fees, and even if u win the case, if the guy doesnt have money, you wont git paid anyway...I'd chalk this up as a learning experience, and just pay for the transfer. The guyz a piece of shyt.

Na, looser pays the court fees in civil suits. They can garnish wages, assess any property he may have, whatever.

Im not worried about the money. If he wasnt being such a dick, id just pay it, but at this point, Im done being nice Ill let the bike sit there, part it out, sell it as a parts bike, something. I didnt pay much for it anyways.

The fact that he actually told me I had no choice and I wasnt in a position to be making demands from him is what pushed me over. I couldnt care less about the bike now, he pissed me off and my vengeful side is showing. If he wants to be a dick over like $80 and an afternoon at the DMV, so be it, Ive got plenty of time and energy to drag this asshat to court.

When I purchased my bike the girl still owed money on it. There's nothing wrong with that. You just have to be smart and draft up a contract for the transaction to protect yourself. It's the same as buying a house. In the case of buying a house the bank does everything so you don't have to do anything except to sign your name. Everything should have a contract. When you buy food at the grocery store the receipt is your contract.

Yea you could draft up a contract and give the person cash for a bike that doesnt have a clear title, and if that person doesnt pay it off, now u have a contract and a major headache...most likely if the person pulls sum s#it like that they dont have the $ to give back to you or finish paying off the bike when u go through the whole legal system thing...

If I'm understanding this correctly, you're considering paying $65 to sue someone for $80? The guy you bought it from is an ass, but if the problem goes away for < $100, what's the real issue? What's your time worth? I'd use this as a learning experience.

(and by learning I mean learning to never buy a vehicle without walking away from the transaction without a signed, valid title in hand. Not as in learning how to take someone to small claims court over a tiny amount of money.)

Why can't you transfer the title in your name from the 1st owner? Did the seller already sign the title? It's pretty easy to just write anything on a peice of paper and call it a bill of sale.

Here that would go through like butter..all they care for is you paying the taxes and fees.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you're considering paying $65 to sue someone for $80? The guy you bought it from is an ass, but if the problem goes away for < $100, what's the real issue? What's your time worth? I'd use this as a learning experience.

(and by learning I mean learning to never buy a vehicle without walking away from the transaction without a signed, valid title in hand. Not as in learning how to take someone to small claims court over a tiny amount of money.)


Its not the money/time thats the issue, ive got plenty of both. I can give this guy $80 and solve the problem and he wins for being a dick. Or i can give the state $65 and he looses. My learning experience? No thanks, I know I messed up. He needs to learn a lesson that you dont get to be an asshole and get away with it.

Why can't you transfer the title in your name from the 1st owner? Did the seller already sign the title? It's pretty easy to just write anything on a peice of paper and call it a bill of sale.

Here that would go through like butter..all they care for is you paying the taxes and fees.

He and the previous owner already signed/notarized the title into his name. Cant put my name on it now as the seller till he has a title saying he is the owner.

SC is crazy picky about titles/bills of sale. They dont let anything slide. You cant just used any old piece of paper as a bill of sale, you have to have an official DMV form avaliable only at the DMV for them to accept it, and they will not do a title transfer without your name on a bill of sale and your name on the back of a title, both notarized.

Its not the money/time thats the issue, ive got plenty of both. I can give this guy $80 and solve the problem and he wins for being a dick. Or i can give the state $65 and he looses. My learning experience? No thanks, I know I messed up. He needs to learn a lesson that you dont get to be an asshole and get away with it.

What you'll eventually come to learn is that there are way too many assholes in the world to waste any of your own hard-earned time trying to educate them. One, they won't learn, and two, nobody has an unlimited amount of time.

He wronged you, no doubt, but you were wrong to walk away without checking the title. Why would you want to keep dealing with this for weeks when it goes away for such a small amount of $ and effort right now? You're free to do whatever you choose, as we all are, but you asked for advice, right?

I knew the title wasnt in his name, but my dad was there with his truck so we could get it home, and he was kinda insisting itd be ok. Now, Im 23 years old, but I dont argue with my dad, even when I know Im right, especially after he did me a favor of driving 2hrs to get the bike. Wrong or right, what's done is done.

Im NOT going to give this guy my money to pay for him to be an asshole. If he would have just said, hey i dont have the money right now, can we work something out, I would have gladly done that. But to flat out tell me to piss off, screw that.

Good luck.

Ok.
So he also sign the title.
I don't think you mention that.
I was under the assumption that only the 1st owner's signature is on the title.
How did he manage to ride without registering the bike?
Alex is absolutely right.
Not worth the time man.
Why can't you put on the bill of sale that you pay $1000 for the buy so that you will pay less tax and call it even.

because the tax is only like $40.

Its worth the time to me.

Also, if i did it his way, Im going to be the one who will have to take him to the dmv, which means driving 2hrs down there, waiting in line, getting the title transfer paid for, driving 2hrs back, then driving back down there a week later when the title comes in to do the transfer to my name.

sue him sue him :D

The bottom line is, people buy vehicles and turn around and sell them. They don't register them because you can only do it six times a year without getting a dealers license. This is big business in places (like Rhode Island). You get the title with the owners name from two owners ago. The trick is if the middle guy can get a bill of sale from who he bought it from with no info but a signature. Then he fills in the info with you as the new owner and he doesn't have to register, pay taxes, or get a dealers license. Don't ask me how I know.

Which would be fine, but you cant do that in SC.

The person with the name on the title has to sign the title over and it has to be notarized. You cant have the middle man without involving the 1st owner.

Also, he already signed/notarized the title with the guy he bought it from, so theres no place to reassign the title. hence why i need a new one from him.

I have had the exact same problem when I bought a car from another Soldier when I was stationed in Germany. The problem with that is the distances involved and the turn around time with the US mail, 1 week from Europe to US and vice versa. the car was titled in VA, tried to get a title there, no dice and tried in SC, my home state, still no dice. It took about 2 months, and the guy was PO'd, but I had something on my side. I could always go have a talk with his commander. But I didn't have to. After it was all said and done, he got a title in his name, and gave me the clear title.

nb

Which would be fine, but you cant do that in SC.

The person with the name on the title has to sign the title over and it has to be notarized. You cant have the middle man without involving the 1st owner.

Also, he already signed/notarized the title with the guy he bought it from, so theres no place to reassign the title. hence why i need a new one from him.

You're not getting the point. He doesn't want his name anywhere on the title. It's like you are buying it from the guy he bought it from. He only gets the money, he never pays to register it, doesn't have to pay the taxes, and can do this as many times as he can get away with it.

Is the title signed over to him with his name on it? If it is and he is trying to sell it without going throught the proper process,it could be fraud.

Dude, ive said like 5 times, including the post you quoted, yes he has already signed the title he recieved. He signed it when he purchased the bike. If he hadnt, id go find the guy he bought it from and get him to sign it over to me.

because the tax is only like $40.

Its worth the time to me.

Also, if i did it his way, Im going to be the one who will have to take him to the dmv, which means driving 2hrs down there, waiting in line, getting the title transfer paid for, driving 2hrs back, then driving back down there a week later when the title comes in to do the transfer to my name.

Move to NJ man.
You get the title right on the spot.

I'd take him to court given the situation. From a legal standpoint Banzai's original post is spot on, noone should even think about selling a vehicle without having first a clean title that they paid for.

Good Luck Tommy.

i had to wait two months on my title ill never buy something again that requires trust..damn it sucks being impuslive..hope you get it straight