Just bought a spare bike off Parkhurst Racing (Pete Demas') spare bike (really GI Jane...)

What can I do (maximum) and be legal in the class?
I don't want to do anything I shouldn't.
But I want to get it as close to the other guys as possible.

Right now it has the Yoshimura Full system, and a partial jet kit (need to get the full Factory Pro kit installed), stainless lines, and Pirelli Supercorsa tires on it...

Have a set of Catalyst Racing plastics to paint and install as well...

:welcome: Jordan! I just took a peek at the 2009 AFM Rulebook (http://www.afmracing.org/downloads/download_rulebook_lg.pdf), and all of the allowed changes for bikes in general and for the production class specifically are from pages 47 - 57. It looks like not much can be done to the engine, other than light machining of the head to increase compression. I'd be curious about what some of the other folks are doing to their bikes in that class as well. One person you may want to ping is Richard (RaceBikeRentals on this board), I know he runs a 250 in that class and also rents out 250's for others. I don't think his bikes have much more than an exhaust, jet kit, better rubber, and yanked snorkels though...

I was told that you even had to leave the snorkel on the airbox...I just want to know exactly...
I was told I couldn't even change the brake and clutch levers...I would assume that means no rearsets or clipons...

Far as I can tell, you can change the levers, add rearsets, and use new clipons. Check out page 54 of the rulebook, (a) through (c) at the top of that page. 9.1.1.10 on page 55 may affect removing the snorkel. It states that the original equipment airbox must be retained, but you can change the OEM filter. Not sure if the snorkel would be considered part of the airbox.

OK to change to rearsets and clipons. Snorkel MUST be in place. Rear stock brake reservoir must be in place. You may also change your rear shock and front fork internals. Anything else that would change the appearance of the bike from stock is no go.

OK to change to rearsets and clipons. Snorkel MUST be in place. Rear stock brake reservoir must be in place. You may also change your rear shock and front fork internals. Anything else that would change the appearance of the bike from stock is no go.

Thanks Richard, what do you have done on your bike? Thinking the reatsets and clipons would be a nice addition, as the bike is really setup well for street riding, but the higher bars are not quite front end inspiring...

I would assume on the front end it would be mostly like a stiffer spring and thicker 15W oil from Racetech correct? At least that is what they suggest...I am not a huge fan of GVE's (have one in my 650R), but if that is what is needed to adjust the high speed compression, I might do it between the August and September race...

It also appears the bike has Pirelli Supercorsa tires...is that allowed? Are there better choices once those wear...Pete Demas said they were fine...

Just a quick question, when you pass tech do you get a green card?

we have springs and emulators in our forks i believe, as well as a penske triple clicker rear shock.

we also have steel braided lines on front, woodcraft rearsets and clipons, full exhaust with carbs professionaly tuned on a dyno

i think thats about it

How much for a Penske Triple?
I have been quoted by a local suspension guy (LE-engineering) $450 to revalve and add a remote res to my stocker...probably can't do that before the first race...gotta stay as tight as I can...

i didn't know you could add the remote to the stock shock until after i bought mine. i probably would have gone that route.

i think the triple clicker is over a grand. maybe something like $1200. its pretty nice and allows you to really dial in the bike if you have a tuner to help you out, but its not really necessary.

How much for a Penske Triple?
I have been quoted by a local suspension guy (LE-engineering) $450 to revalve and add a remote res to my stocker...probably can't do that before the first race...gotta stay as tight as I can...

Quick question, is this LE's pricing for just the rear suspension or also includes tuning the front?

Thanks Richard, what do you have done on your bike? Thinking the reatsets and clipons would be a nice addition, as the bike is really setup well for street riding, but the higher bars are not quite front end inspiring...

I would assume on the front end it would be mostly like a stiffer spring and thicker 15W oil from Racetech correct? At least that is what they suggest...I am not a huge fan of GVE's (have one in my 650R), but if that is what is needed to adjust the high speed compression, I might do it between the August and September race...

It also appears the bike has Pirelli Supercorsa tires...is that allowed? Are there better choices once those wear...Pete Demas said they were fine...

Sorry for the delay... have been racing and traveling.

I changed out my fork oil for 15 weight and it made a big difference. Its a good first move. I have no personal experience with the Pirelli's but I know some people go fast with them.

This past weekend Wes Totsubo nearly matched the track record at Willow Springs on new 003RS tires, so they seem good, at least for a fast track like Willow.

Pete went like stink on his 250 at Infineon when I was there, so you should have a great bike!

Just a quick question, when you pass tech do you get a green card?

Tech will put a sticker on your windshield or fairing when you pass tech. At least at all the orgs that I've raced with.

People are these forums are talking about grinding the kick stand mounting tab as necessities...is that true? Of course this means I can't use my kickstand anymore (and I am using this bike as both street and track/race).

Sounds like someone needs to design a bolton kickstand tab we can bolt on if we grind the stock tab off...

no, nothing is a necessity unless you have to do it to pass tech.

the only real reason you need to get rearsets is when you start to get quick enough on the track that you're out of ground clearence even with proper body position. so, once you reach that point and you're ready to go faster, then you need rearsets. once you get rearsets then you def need to cut the kickstand mount so you don't have to worry about it putting you on your head.

keep in mind that you don't have to do everything at once either. you can race or track your bike in almost stock form (aside from oil catching lowers and safety wire requirements), and build up the trick parts over time when you need/want them. this includes suspension, clipons, rearsets, etc. People have raced older tech bikes for years and years before us, you can race a stock 250 just fine. you're not going to be out there winning races right off the bat anyways, so take your time.

Okay, thanks for the info...should I splurge on the clipons? Would clipons without doing the rearsets feel awkward?

I finished jetting the bike the other night...feels fantastic...the previous rider had already done the needles and put factory 105 jets (way too rich)...so I redid the needles anyway and replaced the factory 38 pilot jets with the supplied 40's and used factory 90 mains...feels really good.

Now to install the ignition advancer and paint the race plastics this weekend...
Ordered new stiffer .80 race tech springs and 15W oil...that will be next weeks project...

have you done a plug check with the 90 mains? that's kinda lean from the stock 98s. what's your altitude?

I live at sea level about 10 minutes from Factory Pro in San Rafael, CA. I bought the kit there, and he said that the 250s are crazy rich from the Thailand factory, which is weird as most bikes come lean...the 90s are the suggested starting point...remember I have to leave my airbox totally stock...even with a full exhaust...I know once you de-snorkel or even go with pod filters guys are up to the 105 range, but for the Ninja Cup class the airbox has to remain virgin-like...

I know you can't compare, but I just rejetted my last bike a 2001 ZX-9R (now sold) and I replaced the stock 95 mains with 90s and that was a Keilhin carb too...so I would assume a 90 main is pretty close (I though about putting in the 92s just to be on the same side, but I don't want to do it all over again...I will check the plugs after the first race...that should tell me how close I am...

Hey kkim what fender eliminator did you buy/use? Bike looks fantastic BTW...

yep, even with all the desnorkeling and stock air filter replacements, the 98s work well, so they are rich. I don't know how many steps down the 90 is from 98. Just struck me as a bit lean, especially at sea level.

just be careful as others that have run lean thought their bikes felt super, too... right up to the time it self destructed. Just passing on to you that perhaps a plug check is in order before you end up with an unpleasant surprise. If others are jetting with 90s in your area, I'd like to hear about it as I never thought the 98s were that far off, but again, you may be right.

Hey kkim what fender eliminator did you buy/use? Bike looks fantastic BTW...

thanks...it's a DIY that I followed by HKr1.


http://www.kawiforums.com/ninja-250r/104802-free-fender-eliminator.html

If you go to Factorypro.com's site under the 250 they have 2 different guys setups plus there are the 2 in the instructions...
most are:
stock airbox
40 pilots
90-92 mains
2.5 turns out
3 clip down plus 3 washers on top of the clip plus ANOTHER clip on top of that to keep the needle from floating...

I still recommend you do a plug color check just to make sure. you don't know how that rider uses his bike and he might not be on the main very often. On the other hand, if you jet lean and go blasting down the freeway for long periods, it may end up too lean for those conditions.

Man trying to get the Catalyst Racing plastics on have been a bear...nothing like my old 636...the ZX-6R swapout could be done in about an hour total...the 250R is about 3 times that...

Jordan - You must be doing something wrong. I can hang a new set of bodywork in 30 minutes. The Catalysts come predrilled. You just need to use a step bit to enlarge the holes at each mounting location. What are the difficulties you're having?

These were like the first ones to be made way back in '08...
The tail and main front fairing are REALLY tight...the front fairing seems to need to be slowly wiggled on from both directions, already scratched my paint job on the fairings and put little tiny scratches on various parts on the bike trying to get them on...
Mine weren't predrilled, but they have the dimples where the holes should go...

The tails are very tight. You may need to trim the area where it touches the rear seat brace. Once you have the tail on, whack it with your hand several times to move it forward and into position. There is a screw hole in the middle of the seat brace. Drill a hole in the tail and put a bolt there.

The uppers need to be spread to clear the front fender and the plastic instrument surround. Having 2 people do the job really helps! I scratched up quite a few parts my first time or two as well. There is a trick, but impossible to explain.

The dimples are in the correct locations. Make sure you use a step bit - a regular drill bit will fracture and splinter the fiberglass.

Guess I will go out and buy a step bit today...thanks for the heads up...I assuming I will gridding next to you on August 9th...I'm excited!
I'm official...AFM number 739!

Naw.... I stopped racing AFM a few months ago. You'll have fun with McKinney and Bartlow, though. Give em hell!

Where does that AMB transponder mount? Will it be seen or is it kept under the tail?

They usually do them on the fork leg below your bars.
Posted via Mobile Device

Anyone know if the Factory Pro Ignition advance woodruf key installation is easy or hard?
I was going to take the bike in today, but it appears to be quite an install, as there is not clear instructions on the net...
I have done several on other bikes, but it appears that the whole flywheel and stuff has to come off...anyone know what kind of labor hour(s) I am looking at in a shop?

Anyone know if the Factory Pro Ignition advance woodruf key installation is easy or hard?
I was going to take the bike in today, but it appears to be quite an install, as there is not clear instructions on the net...
I have done several on other bikes, but it appears that the whole flywheel and stuff has to come off...anyone know what kind of labor hour(s) I am looking at in a shop?

Hmmmm.... doesn't sound legal to me. I'd check with AFM before you go to the trouble.

Broom is right... zip tie the AMB clip to your left fork leg just below the triple clamp (or clipon mount if you have clipons).

AFM 2009 Rulebook
Rule 9.1.11 section o:
The complete ignition/engine control system must be original OEM parts of the model being used in competition except as follows: Ignition timing may be altered by slotting the ignition trigger mounting plate or replacing the stock ignition rotor with an aftermaket rotor.

Essentially it gives you the same control over ignition timing as someone who has a FI bike with a PCIIIUSB with the ignition module which allows mild timing changes...this never leads to much HP gain, just the ability to use higher octane fuel or move the power curve ever so slightly...

BTW...

Phil from Aftershocks can revalve people's rear shocks for $250 or $300 by adding a remote res. but doesn't give you the adjustability of the nicer Elka, etc units...

Cool.... guess you read the rulebook :)

But, its really a shame AFM went there own way on the rules for this class. The 250 Prod guys won't be able to come play with us WSMC'rs with all those mods and race fuel.

Just got back from my first race weekend. Did better than I expected I guess...qualified for the 250 Production race...finished 4th out of 6, (really 5th, but 4th got disqualified for being a pre-generation with the now illegal 17" rim upgrades...)
More importantly, got my first taste of racing...and knocked 10 seconds from my times from first practice to the last race...
Really need:
Rearsets
Better tires than the Pirelli Super Dragons (great street tire, but the higher guys were using BT-003/BT-090s mixes)
Rear shock
Better brake pads than stock ones...

Richard:
All the guys here I talked to that run 250 prod (the whole 4 of them) just run plain 'ol pump gas...supposedly 87 works even better than 91...
No one has touched their motors...hell top place guy McKinney uses stock bars, stock shock, stock springs...

cool... glad you had fun.

any idea why they made the 17" wheel upgrades illegal?

cool... glad you had fun.

any idea why they made the 17" wheel upgrades illegal?


They made the 17" rims on the pre-2008 bikes illegal because technically those bikes had 16" rims from the factory, so changing or modding them no longer makes the bike "production" it makes it Superbike, even though they allow the 450 motards in the 250 Superbike, so there really isn't a good class for the older 250's anymore, which is a shame...they really need to boot out the 400/450 into the correct class, and maybe they can get some of the old school 250's back out there...

Heard there were like 30-40 bikes in the hayday of the 250 Production class in AFM....and they float around BARF and Craigslist for like 1500-2000 fully ready to race too...

Just got back from my first race weekend. Did better than I expected I guess...qualified for the 250 Production race...finished 4th out of 6, (really 5th, but 4th got disqualified for being a pre-generation with the now illegal 17" rim upgrades...)
More importantly, got my first taste of racing...and knocked 10 seconds from my times from first practice to the last race...
Really need:
Rearsets
Better tires than the Pirelli Super Dragons (great street tire, but the higher guys were using BT-003/BT-090s mixes)
Rear shock
Better brake pads than stock ones...

Richard:
All the guys here I talked to that run 250 prod (the whole 4 of them) just run plain 'ol pump gas...supposedly 87 works even better than 91...
No one has touched their motors...hell top place guy McKinney uses stock bars, stock shock, stock springs...

Jordan,

Congrats on the 4th place finish!

Yes, 87 octane will get you the most HP. It works well with these engines. The stock suspension is really very, very good. The guys back east are modding the crap out of their suspension and I really don't understand why. It seems like a waste of money to me. Just change out the fork fluid with 15 weight and you'll be good. Put the rear shock in the middle position. Put some good race pads in. Go with BT090 tires and you're set. Rearsets and clipons will help, but aren't that critical. Good job!

Richard,

I can't remember if i asked you about this already or not, but have you run the new 003 yet? i've had the one up front all season, but i believe there is an 003 that fits the rear too. i'm due for a set and was thinking about trying it instead of the 090.

i'm kinda nervous to try different tires since the 003/090 combo has been so predictable for me. i've had several high speed 2 wheel slides over the past few months and the tires have re-grouped well.

and yes, we've modded the crap out of our suspension. unfortunelty i never rode the bike stock so i can't give any comparison. i can say the bike behaves VERY well though, and is highly tunable.

Only on my Aprilia. Hoping to have a set for this weekend to try on the Ninja Turtle. Wes Totsubo ran a pair last month and was 0.1 off the lap record. He didn't like the way they felt, but obviously they work well. He was pushed hard the entire race by Steve Atlas.

Mark McKinney, top points guy here in AFM 250 Prod, doesn't like the BT-003 he has on the rear (he still has the BT-090 on the front)...he is thinking of staying with the 09's.

Has anyone here used the BT-016 as a race tire, I can't remember if it was here or the other site where some guys really liked it on the track and it didnt slide as much as the 003...

090s are going away, replaced with the new 003RS.

I race with the BT016 at Willow Springs only. Not good enough for more technical tracks (like AFM runs). I low-sided in the 250 Superbike race at Infineon a few months ago with BT016s. I've won races with them in AFM, but am always on the edge. If you're running at lap record pace, they are not good. If you're several seconds back they should be fine.

what if you feel like you're running lap record pace, but you're still several seconds back? ;)

Man, isn't that always the case? Cruel sport.....

Put some good race pads in.

Richard, I'm curious as to your your experience, what pads would you recommend?

Well, I am using Galfer FD117HH and am happy with them. Also using Spiegler brake line.

If the bike is used for both street and track/race...but currently running about a 2:16 at Infineon, I am thinking I will go for the 003RS, which is Race/Street right?

I think the 003RS would be a great choice. Very capable tire. Won't last as long as the BT016, but should perform better.

is the Galfer FD117HH better than EBC's pad?

ah ha! Love this forum! Know this thread has been dead for over a year, but before I went posting I found out exactly what I needed. Reading the rulebook only got me so far..... Thanks!

Looks like the numbers for the prod 250 class are way up in the AFM this last year 2011. More is better.

Can't wait to join you all on the grid in 2012!

Cheers,
PJ
AFM #891