So I lowsided going about 30-40mph with shorts on, Thank God I had my helmet and my gloves on at least but my legs are ripped to shreds, no broken bones thank God. I havent seen the bike in 3 days so far b/c Im in bed trying to heal the major road rash on both legs. Anyways, I might not be riding for a long time, my parents don't trust me to ride anymore, and I really dont think I want to ride for a while. So I bid you all a farewell in the help you have given me to enjoy my bike for when I did have it. Thanks

EDIT: 1 week later pics added, I also have skin ripped off on my back and shoulder, also some staples in my hip that I did not include pics of, also my right leg isn't in these pics, it isnt as f'ed up but still large abrasion on the calf and knee.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3979/dsc0063512x384.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/i/dsc0063512x384.jpg/)
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2415/dsc0066512x384.th.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/dsc0066512x384.jpg/)
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5/dsc0069512x384.th.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/dsc0069512x384.jpg/)
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5310/dsc0072512x384.th.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/dsc0072512x384.jpg/)

The Pile of gauze and bandages and non-stick pads after unwrapping, see all that dried blood? it was a PITA to get off, so much for "non stick"
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9145/dsc0073512x384.th.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/dsc0073512x384.jpg/)

DON'T ****ING RIDE WITH SHORTS, I"ll never make that mistake again.

SORRY to hear another down.:(
Get well and get back on.

bummer for the low side , details on what caused it? I have ridden like a squid before so cant slam you for not wearing pants. Get better and learn from the mistake.

I hope you get better. My advise is to get back on the horse as soon as you are healthy. Good luck.

chick digs scars man... :D

Sorry to hear about the low side. Heal quickly and get back on the bike but this time make sure to have all your gear all the time. Look at this as a learning experience.

Ouch man, I hate to hear about anyone going down... I hope you heal quickly and without much pain.

But DON'T let this beat you and DON'T give up!
Like Snake said, use this as a learning experience, get some good gear and GET BACK ON!

I'll admit to riding with shorts on the way to work and back, 5min ride through town and its 80* with traffic. I try to keep my Icon Leg Armor on though, so if the worst happens I hope to avoid some rash.

Heal up and get back on.

The rash part really sucks, proper gear woulda been nice...lesson learned.

Perhaps you could share the details of your lowside, it just might help keep someone else from making the same mistake

You better have seen a Doctor. If not, you better go soon. If the roadrash gets infected you could loose your legs.

Get to a Doctor, get healed, learn from your mistake, get back on the bike and ride correctly.

Crashing Sux. The only thing worse is not riding at all (that really sux).

Crashing Sux. The only thing worse is not riding at all (that really sux).

:thumbup: You said it!

i've only been riding for a few weeks, but so far i can't understand how these things happen to riders. im amazed when i hear about guys dropping their bikes. and people even tell me, its not IF you go down, its when. I have to admit i've had a close call already, but thanks to MSF i had some knowlege of how to break fast and hard, and i was able to anticipate the driver not seeing me like they taught us in msf. Are you guys pushin the bikes and breaking speed limits or does this sort of thing happen every day? Did you hit gravel? I'm asking as a humble rider, i hope to learn from other peoples expiriences so i dont have to suffer my own. in any event, dont give up, get back riding asap.

I've heard of people hitting oil spots in turns, sand, gravel, fresh cut grass, leaves, animals, breaking in a turn..there are a number of things that can cause someone to go down.

As far as dropping the bike (when stopped) I've done it twice. Once when I was at a stopsign, idk why, maybe I braked too hard, but it tipped over. The second time I thought I put the kickstand down but it didn't go all the way.

Stuff like this does happen all the time, and you just gotta shake it off. Nav, hang in there man! heal up fast and get back on.

i've only been riding for a few weeks, but so far i can't understand how these things happen to riders. im amazed when i hear about guys dropping their bikes. and people even tell me, its not IF you go down, its when. I have to admit i've had a close call already, but thanks to MSF i had some knowlege of how to break fast and hard, and i was able to anticipate the driver not seeing me like they taught us in msf. Are you guys pushin the bikes and breaking speed limits or does this sort of thing happen every day? Did you hit gravel? I'm asking as a humble rider, i hope to learn from other peoples expiriences so i dont have to suffer my own. in any event, dont give up, get back riding asap.

Usually what it is is a survival instinct taking over and doing something you know damn well you shouldn't do but your body just reacts in a wrong way. Im actually reading about this now in a motorcycle skills book and it makes perfect sense. It could happen mid turn when something unexpected appears and you hit the brakes (or even get off the gas too quick and upset the suspension). It could be something simple as gravel in the road that you dont see(and dont think you'll see it all) and reacting in a way you shouldnt.

Heal up soon buddy, as others have said go see a doc. and get back onto the bike nice and easy and this time you know to wear your gear.:thumbup:

sorry to hear! Don't let it get you down - take your time healing up, and then take the time to heal your bike. We're here to help support you when you decide to get back on :)

I made a promise to myself no matter how hot it is to always wear all my gear for the first year. It's kind of a verbal contract i have between me and my parents so they don't feel so anxious about me riding. I'd feel naked without my gear now that i'm used to it. Some days i really want to go riding without the jacket and the pants but i keep telling myself that's when something will happen and i'll go down.

I'm sorry to read about your accident. get better soon.

Hell, I ride in jeans and such so I can't say I wear the proper gear and I won't drill into you for the same. Lesson learned. Just like my little thing when that parked motorcycle hit my car!

Hope you get well soon.

i've only been riding for a few weeks, but so far i can't understand how these things happen to riders.


Sh*t happens, quick. Real quick.


and people even tell me, its not IF you go down, its when.

People, for once, are right.


I have to admit i've had a close call already, but thanks to MSF i had some knowlege of how to break fast and hard, and i was able to anticipate the driver not seeing me like they taught us in msf.

Good job, after only a couple of weeks, that's amazing. You'll have many more near misses. Everyone does go down eventually...even if it takes years.


Are you guys pushin the bikes and breaking speed limits or does this sort of thing happen every day?

Happens every day.

To the OP....get some care, disinfect, and get riding again.

wow sorry to hear about your incident... but hey.. just ride slower.. and keep your spirit up! hey you never know when you have that itch to ride again!

Hope u heal up fast man...

Tough luck mate, get well soon.

Sounds painful. Like everybody else said, take it as a lesson learned and get some gear before you ride again. Just don't let it beat you. :)

Ouch man, sorry to hear about that accident, road rash sucks, especially picking all the gravel out. Think everyone else has the ATGATT covered. Hope you heal up well & soon, and convince your folks & yourself you can still ride; happens to the best of us.

Just a slight semi-OT note:

If not wearing gear is a heat issue (as opposed to a convenience, or -- heaven forbid -- vanity issue), then get mesh gear.

Yesterday I rode for the first time in my new mesh jacket and it really, truly was like wearing shirtsleeves.

Get better and learn the RIGHT lesson here. It isn't:

"It wasn't my fault, freak accident, can't happen to me again."

or

"I'm not skilled enough to handle the bike."

or

"Nothing is worth this kind of discouragement and pain."

It is:

- ATGATT
- Stay focused like a laser beam
- Do whatever it takes to ride safe, including the stuff that people routinely blow off (adequate following distance, looking ahead, REALLY riding at a reasonable speed, yadda yadda).

Hope you heal well and wind up with sexy scars!

wow its amazing how these situations can be so out of the riders control, even at 30-40mph you really dont think anything could happen. +1 on the previous post about mesh gear, i use a mesh jacket, and you really dont feel it while your riding. now i need to invest in some pants.

i've only been riding for a few weeks, but so far i can't understand how these things happen to riders. im amazed when i hear about guys dropping their bikes. and people even tell me, its not IF you go down, its when. I have to admit i've had a close call already, but thanks to MSF i had some knowlege of how to break fast and hard, and i was able to anticipate the driver not seeing me like they taught us in msf. Are you guys pushin the bikes and breaking speed limits or does this sort of thing happen every day? Did you hit gravel? I'm asking as a humble rider, i hope to learn from other peoples expiriences so i dont have to suffer my own. in any event, dont give up, get back riding asap.

I hit gravel going about 15-20 mph and didnt know I fell until I was picking my bike up it happens so fast....the close calls are not what are going to get you it is the fall that happens and you dont realize it happened until your getting up off the ground....thats why you have to wear gear so that you increase your chances of getting up. cuz it would suck to die and not realize it until well your dead.

oh man, thats terrible, well im glad your ok. its so hard to accept that this stuff is possible without warning.

Sucks to be you. Get better soon. Had some road rash once, JUST ONCE.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO READ THIS AND STILL DONT GEAR UP.
ENJOY YOUR ROAD RASH.
YOU WILL GO DOWN
YOU WILL SLIDE ON THE PAVEMENT
YOU WILL GET ROAD RASH IF UNPROTECTED.

Thanks for all your kind words. I did go to the emrgency room, I went down about 150ft from my house. My neighbors helped me out. I fell on the left side and the bike flew into a school zone sign. I believe the skid was started as I was turning and there was grass/gravel on the edge of the road, when I felt the tires slipping, I grabbed the brakes and by that time the tires had lost enough traction already to make me go down. Happened in less than a second. I'm glad I had my alpinestars sp-x gloves on, the leather was completely torn on palm side down, but my hands are in great shape also there was a gash on the front of my helmet right above the visor, Thank GOD for that too. I have 4 stitches in my left knee and 3 staples in my hip. I still haven't seen the bike, but I know my dad was able to start it and ride it back to my house.

...my hands are in great shape also there was a gash on the front of my helmet right above the visor, Thank GOD for that too.

I hate to be the bearer of more bad news, but you may need to replace that helmet.

out of curiosity, why did you grab the brakes in the middle of a slide? was it a natural reaction or was it a concious decision? and why did you do it? im just wondering in case i get myself in the same predicament.

If you were only 150 feet from your house, I'll go on a limb and assume that you had just left your house. Your tires were probably cold too which is very much a causal factor in a lowside. Without nice hot tires, you lose grip that may have kept you up right. Braking mid-corner is not the right choice in the event of loss of grip. The best plan is to let off the throttle, let off brakes and let things stand up on their own if possible.

Glad your okay. I've seen a lot of people go down over the years and I went down twice in my first year (Once was my fault, once I was run off the road by a car..), it happens but you need to get back on the bike and stick with it if you really enjoy it!

"i've only been riding for a few weeks, but so far i can't understand how these things happen to riders. im amazed when i hear about guys dropping their bikes. and people even tell me, its not IF you go down, its when."

Not a good attitude to have. If you can't understand how these things happen you won't be prepared for it when it does. You may be able to ride your whole life without crashing unexpectedly, but statistics say otherwise. In fact it's more likely you will eventually crash than not, hence the "not if but when" saying. While there are many things you can control when riding a bike there are also a few you have no control over. Like an unseen patch of oil at night or gravel on the road that's missed while you're looking through a turn. One only has to see all the reports of people lowsiding on gravel to know that riders who think they can avoid every accident by being hyper-vigilant are eventually proved wrong more often than not. For the vast majority of riders a crash is still possible and even probable at some point in their riding career. To totally deny the possibility because you think you can control every situation is absurd. Someone texting at the wheel could drift over the double yellow tomorrow and you'd be dead before you realized what was happening, let alone react to it.

Wayne, I'm going to the Island Thursday. I'll be there for the weekend. Maybe you, Greg, and I can get together for a crash course in backroad riding (did I really say that). Actually most of the roads should be nice and clean. I did see a deer run across the road last time I was up there.

"i've only been riding for a few weeks, but so far i can't understand how these things happen to riders. im amazed when i hear about guys dropping their bikes. and people even tell me, its not IF you go down, its when."

Not a good attitude to have. If you can't understand how these things happen you won't be prepared for it when it does. You may be able to ride your whole life without crashing unexpectedly, but statistics say otherwise. In fact it's more likely you will eventually crash than not, hence the "not if but when" saying. While there are many things you can control when riding a bike there are also a few you have no control over. Like an unseen patch of oil at night or gravel on the road that's missed while you're looking through a turn. One only has to see all the reports of people lowsiding on gravel to know that riders who think they can avoid every accident by being hyper-vigilant are eventually proved wrong more often than not. For the vast majority of riders a crash is still possible and even probable at some point in their riding career. To totally deny the possibility because you think you can control every situation is absurd. Someone texting at the wheel could drift over the double yellow tomorrow and you'd be dead before you realized what was happening, let alone react to it.

What i meant was i dont understand how someone could drop a 350lb bike in their driveway not moving, like one rider said he forgot the kickstand. It seems most of these accidents are avoidable. I get the possibility of other driver mistakes and unseen oil/gravel.

Wayne, I'm going to the Island Thursday. I'll be there for the weekend. Maybe you, Greg, and I can get together for a crash course in backroad riding (did I really say that). Actually most of the roads should be nice and clean. I did see a deer run across the road last time I was up there.

Normally I'd jump at the chance to go riding, Tom, but this has been a really weird riding season up here this year. The constant rain has really curtailed my time on the bike and I feel like I haven't had enough saddle time to even clear out all the cobwebs from the winter yet. Rides have been few and far between and I still feel so damn rusty considering we're halfway through the season already. I'm taking the bike out so infreaquently that I actually noticed some real rust on the chain and discs the other day, which should tell you right there how often I've been able to ride. As much as I'd like to join you guys I really don't feel like I'm in tune with the bike enough yet to ride with other bikes. It's all about knowing your limits and I'm going to need at least a few more weeks and a couple of full days on the bike before I feel comfortable enough to ride with even a small group. Luckily they are predicting at least a couple of days that may be rain-free this week, but unless this "year without a summer" pattern changes drastically I may be winterizing the bike before my riding skills get to where they should be. Thanks for the invite though. :)

What i meant was i dont understand how someone could drop a 350lb bike in their driveway not moving, like one rider said he forgot the kickstand. It seems most of these accidents are avoidable. I get the possibility of other driver mistakes and unseen oil/gravel.

Well, the answer is still basically the same. Own a bike long enough and you'll be amazed at some of the stupid things you can do when you least expect it. I haven't dropped my bike in the driveway yet, but there was a point where I came really close. I was wheeling it across my lawn to the driveway on a dry day and hadn't noticed a neighbor had watered his lawn and got just a tiny area of mine damp. The bike was completely upright, but the second the front tire contacted the damp grass it went sideways and the only thing that saved me dumping it was that the Ninja is only 330 pounds and I was able to wrench it back up with a lot of effort. Otherwise it would have been down. Never say never in this sport. :rolleyes:

how about some rash picts to encourage ATGATT (all the gear all the time)

Well, the answer is still basically the same. Own a bike long enough and you'll be amazed at some of the stupid things you can do when you least expect it. I haven't dropped my bike in the driveway yet, but there was a point where I came really close. I was wheeling it across my lawn to the driveway on a dry day and hadn't noticed a neighbor had watered his lawn and got just a tiny area of mine damp. The bike was completely upright, but the second the front tire contacted the damp grass it went sideways and the only thing that saved me dumping it was that the Ninja is only 330 pounds and I was able to wrench it back up with a lot of effort. Otherwise it would have been down. Never say never in this sport. :rolleyes:

Well this is what i am talking about, you were wheeling, but for everyone else who goes the speed limit and doesnt push the bike or lean like crazy around turns at 70mph, i would think the chances of going down are greatly reduced.

Bill - What I'm understanding from your comments is that you expect as long as you don't do anything stupid, you'll never put the bike on the ground. I wish you the best of luck with that, but it's a longshot at best. Motorcycles are inherent unstable machines. Let go of them and they fall over. :) We spend years trying to keep it from happening, and sometimes we're successful, but overconfidence in our skills to the point where we believe it can't happen to us may come back to bite us. Practice as much as you can, ATGATT, and have fun.

alex thats not what i am saying. im saying that in most, not all, but most of the stories i hear are rider error, that either come up in conversation or i read in a web forum. its a stated fact from msf too. obviously all problems cant be avoided but many can, especially if you arent wheeling your bike. in the op's post theres nothing he could have done, but if he didnt grab the brakes theres a possibility he could have recovered. grabbing the brakes was the deal breaker.

How many miles on your bike, Bill?

How many miles on your bike, Bill?

Only 150 but i never said that i was talking from expirience, i'm taking from what i've been taught, or read. All over the internet you'll read that in a low slide you shouldnt grab the front brake. I know i will eventually go down, and i knew it before i even considered getting a bike, but i also know for sure that i wont be because i was doing wheelies.

Wait, are you reading TrueFaith's comment as "wheelies" or "wheeling"? He was rolling the bike across the yard with the engine off. Not wheelying on his lawn.

At 150 miles you are doing the right thing by learning all you can as well as you can and as soon as you can. But it also means that you have zero experience whatsoever, and many of the impressions that you may currently hold about what is likely/unlikely possible/impossible will undoubtedly shift when you hit the 5k mark, 25k mark, etc.

Every new rider, every single one, thinks that they are safer and smarter than every other rider they've ever read about and heard about online. They can't all be right. :)

Wait, are you reading TrueFaith's comment as "wheelies" or "wheeling"? He was rolling the bike across the yard with the engine off. Not wheelying on his lawn.
Yes i read it as he was doing wheelies across his lawn haha, my mistake. But yes a lowslide can happen to anyone, and i know that as much as i read and learn, can all go out the window in the heat of the moment, especially with my lack of expirience. But I'm simply trying to understand if there is a difference of risk between "spirited" riding vs "commuting to work", so thats why i'm asking you guys.

Earth to bill,
you will go down sooner or later.
You are human and therefore prone to mistakes.

Earth to Kevin:
I know i will eventually go down, and i knew it before i even considered getting a bike

I am aware of that, thank you.

I know several experienced, responsible, adult riders who have gone many years without a spill who are now in a wheelchair, permanently brain damaged or dead due to an accident. It doesn't matter how good or responsible or focused you are.... Things happen that are out of your control.
Posted via Mobile Device

But I'm simply trying to understand if there is a difference of risk between "spirited" riding vs "commuting to work", so thats why i'm asking you guys.

In my opinion, no. Whether you're going the speed limt, 5 mph below the speed limit, or 30 mph over the speed limit, it's still quite possible to find yourself on the ground. And the human body is so terribly fragile, that once you're moving at any speed whatsoever, there's significant risk if you end up falling off at that whatever speed. In some of these cases, perhaps even in many cases, it will perhaps have been avoidable if the rider had either more experience or simply chose better reactions for whatever the particular situation. In other cases, perhaps there wasn't a viable choice once they found themselves in that situation. I believe that the more skilled the rider, the better chance they have at choosing the right reaction to keep the bike upright and themselves unscathed. I don't think that those skills can be learned or grown by anything other than miles on the bike.

Alex, that is exactly the kind of answer i was looking for, and it answers my question, clear, informative, and helpful. Thank you. Not like pointless heckling of "earth to bill".

So I lowsided going about 30-40mph with shorts on, Thank God I had my helmet and my gloves on at least but my legs are ripped to shreds, no broken bones thank God. I havent seen the bike in 3 days so far b/c Im in bed trying to heal the major road rash on both legs. Anyways, I might not be riding for a long time, my parents don't trust me to ride anymore, and I really dont think I want to ride for a while. So I bid you all a farewell in the help you have given me to enjoy my bike for when I did have it. Thanks

Get better man, im dealing with some road rash myself, but not like that... good luck and get back on soon.

i've only been riding for a few weeks, but so far i can't understand how these things happen to riders. im amazed when i hear about guys dropping their bikes. and people even tell me, its not IF you go down, its when. I have to admit i've had a close call already, but thanks to MSF i had some knowlege of how to break fast and hard, and i was able to anticipate the driver not seeing me like they taught us in msf. Are you guys pushin the bikes and breaking speed limits or does this sort of thing happen every day? Did you hit gravel? I'm asking as a humble rider, i hope to learn from other peoples expiriences so i dont have to suffer my own. in any event, dont give up, get back riding asap.

I know im just beating a dead horse, but i have a story from yesterday night i would like to share.

I took a msf course last month, passed, got my license, bought a bike and started riding last week. Last night i decided to practice, it had been raining all day and I wanted to get some time on the bike before dark. I go down the street to an empty parking lot to practice my clutch control , starts and stops.. etc. I was doing fine and everything, and as I go to slow down after a start, my front tire hits a wet spot on the pavement, and thats all it took. I felt the tire slip and I knew i was going down. It happened so fast but I felt it in slow motion. Slid across the parking lot, got road rash on my knee (i was only wearing jeans, lookign into something better as of today).

I hope you never fall, as I was hoping I wouldn't but it was a reality I was trying to deny. But don't think to yourself that you will fall, or else you definitely will, keep positive thoughts but don't get over confident. Stay safe man.

sorry to hear about your crash. heal up fast.

What i meant was i dont understand how someone could drop a 350lb bike in their driveway not moving, like one rider said he forgot the kickstand. It seems most of these accidents are avoidable. I get the possibility of other driver mistakes and unseen oil/gravel.

I'll admit that I have dropped not only 1, but 2 bikes while not moving at the same time. I was just finishing some work on my one bike and was pushing it into my shed (I have SEVERAL bikes all lined up in there like dominos). I made one bad mistake and didn't have enough room to stand next to the bike while pushing it back. It started to heel over and I couldn't stop it in time and next thing you know, I played domioes with a couple motorcycles in my shed. In the end the snowblower parked at the end suffered the most damage but it goes to show that even after riding for years and years you can still slip up and drop your bike or two at any time.. I cleaned up the scuffs, bought a new set of mirrors for the one bike and put a sticker on the snowblower to cover the scuff! I felt stupid though.

I've been riding bikes since I was 6 (offroad). The Ninja is my first street bike as I attempted to stay off the roads as long as possible, but regardless, I have had my fair share of hours on a bike.

One day sitting out front on the 250r, I went to lean it over to get off, and bam, the kickstand wasn't down. I didn't drop the bike, I caught it, but damn, if this bike weight 20 lbs more, I wouldn't have had the leverage to stop the fall.

That's after 17ish years around bikes.

Luckily I have only been down 3-4 times (all offroad) and the only serious injury I got was a dislocated shoulder when I wasn't even riding the bike (I was stopping in neutral, hands off the bars talking to people, and the mud was so slick the bike just randomly slid out).

Point it, stuff happens when you least expect it.


Anyways, to the OP, heal up and get back to riding when your comfortable and ready again. You got your crash out of the way so your golden for the rest of the year! :thumbup:(kidding of course, be careful!)

Sorry there Bill, just trying to give you the condensed version. It happens to EVERYONE. I didnt think it needed to be explained in detail. Experience or not 200,000 miles or 10 miles, mistakes are made and then your sliding on the pavement.

I'll try to get pics when my dressings come off to be changed, It's been about a week since the accident and I am much better. The first couple nights were TERRIBLE, like my leg was on fire and I could barely get any sleep. Some vikes helped the situation ;) Now I am able to stumble about more easily than before, When I put put pressure on my legs it feels like they're gonna explode, prolly cause they're inflamed with fluid and whatnot. Not to be too crude but I haven't taken a proper **** in days b/c my legs feel like they're gonna pop, hence I cant get on the seat the right way...lol. But lately that feeling is getting less and less intense. Thanks for all the support guys, I see riding pants in my future lol

Quit taking the vicodin for a day it makes you constipated.

Quit taking the vicodin for a day it makes you constipated.

I know, but I only take 1 pill at night to help me sleep. I don't take more than that b/c I'm afraid of getting addicted partly b/c I work at a pharmacy and that's a recipe for disaster, plus I'm trying to become a pharmacist myself lol.

Sorry there Bill, just trying to give you the condensed version. It happens to EVERYONE. I didnt think it needed to be explained in detail. Experience or not 200,000 miles or 10 miles, mistakes are made and then your sliding on the pavement.

Sorry about the crash, hope the legs heal well.

Almost40 is spot on, no one is safe on the road.

I havent had a stack on the road, but I did take my ninja off road a stacked it good and proper.
Riding along in a cow rut, when suddenly the rut takes a sharp right.
The bike went right, but I kept going forwards in the air. Very sore shoulder.

Anyways, hope your legs get better and you get the motivation to get back on. Convincing the parent is a small stepping stone, convincing your self is the mountain.

I don't disagree that no one is safe on the road. What i was asking about is what kind of riding these guys are doing when they are going down. Is it spirited or normal commuting, and im wondering if there is a higher risk for the former. Turning around a curb at a 10 degree tilt vs 30 degrees i thought yeilds different results over unseen gravel. I am trying to learn to assess risk based on how "spirited" i choose to ride my own bike and outside factors like gravel/sand/time of day, etc. But it seems Alex nailed it, explaining that there really isn't a difference, being on a bike is just as dangerous in either situation.

Speed reduces reaction time and increases kinetic energy.

So you'll have to react more quickly, brake and/or swerve harder and be aware that you have less traction reserve if you ride faster.

If you ride slower you've got more of a safety margin and a greater ability to deal with the unexpected.

If you commute, time of day has a strong influence on the level of risk. The roads are more crowded, people are tired, bored, distracted and talking on phones/texting/eating/grooming/reading/you-name-it while driving. Look at the drivers around you next time you commute. You will see most or all of these activities, every day, and every one of them adds danger to the equation.

Every cager is out to kill you, whether he/she knows it or not.

When I commute, I ride differently than I would when out for weekend recreation... far more conservatively than might theoretically be possible. Much slower, leaving lots and lots of room, spending much more of my attention "budget" on situational awareness and traffic. I also dress in the brightest colors imaginable, plus practice ATGATT. Commuting mode is survival mode for me.

Despite all this, it is entirely possible for some blithering idiot to cut me off and turn me into a squishy hood ornament. All I can do is minimize that risk by maximizing my ability to deal with that situation...by slowing down, giving myself more room and paying closer attention.

By contrast, to use your term, when on a recreational ride I might be more "spirited" and spend more of my limited attention budget on simply enjoying the ride and the scenery.

I don't disagree that no one is safe on the road. What i was asking about is what kind of riding these guys are doing when they are going down. Is it spirited or normal commuting, and im wondering if there is a higher risk for the former. Turning around a curb at a 10 degree tilt vs 30 degrees i thought yeilds different results over unseen gravel. I am trying to learn to assess risk based on how "spirited" i choose to ride my own bike and outside factors like gravel/sand/time of day, etc. But it seems Alex nailed it, explaining that there really isn't a difference, being on a bike is just as dangerous in either situation.

HA! Just the thought of me wheelying across my lawn is cracking me up! My neighbors would be so horrified they'd get me evicted. I consider myself fortunate they don't mind my Area-P, but doing a wheelie would be a real dealbreaker!

You know it doesn't matter if you're riding "spiritedly" or slow. The severity of every crash is different and depends on a lot more than just speed. I lowsided last year and screwed up my shoulder and knee and spent 3 days in the hospital and I only crashed at about 20mph or less and wasn't showboating. I came into a turn and didn't recognize gravel on the road because it wasn't just in one spot. It was uniformly spread all over the roadway which camoflaged it enough that I missed it looking through the turn. Even though I braked and could have ridden through it, what happened is I ran out of room to stop completely. It was either hit a curb and highside or stomp the brakes harder than I knew I should have to try and stop or bleed off more speed before I hit. Had I had just a bit more room I could have stopped safely, but it was the terrain that finally got me. Every crash is different and you can't generalize about crashing except for the obvious like too much speed or maybe...wheelying across your lawn. :rolleyes:

its a dangerous sport and **** does happen, its something each one of us has to accept or else we are going to be in for a very very rude awakening... yea yea dead horse i know i know

I know i'm a little late, but sorry to hear about your accident. Don't let this discourage you from riding. People crash all the time. What important is what you learned from it. Get well soon.