An experiment: Turning by leaning.

So today I really tried to see if I could keep the bike on the road by only leaning:

Today, I put on the Uni-Vista-Cruise and did manage to keep the Ninja on the road without touching the bars on the following two sections:

This one at an average of 35 mph. Leaning only-- about 1 mile.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=36.460088,-118.872242&spn=0.028165,0.076818&t=h&z=14

This one at an average of 60 mph. Leaning only -- about 4 miles.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=36.399869,-118.969831&spn=0.028187,0.076818&t=h&z=14

I'm not trying to encourage anyone to ride with no hands. But I managed to keep the bike on the road without touching the bars through both of these sections.

Okay, a couple of times I had to adjust the Vista Cruise, and around a couple of turns, I had to touch the bars for a couple of seconds, but for 99% of the time, leaning only kept me on the road.

I was worried about handlebar shake, but it never happened. I kept one hand covering one bar (alternating left and right..)for 80% of the time, but for about 20% of the time I had both hands on the tank.

Conclusion:
Countersteering leans the bike, but leaning the bike makes it turn. A 160 pound rider can throw enough weight around to keep the bike on moderately curvey roads, even at 60 mph plus by leaning alone.

Is it the lean, or the pressure on the pegs that's doing the no-handed steering?

http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644

lol I've tried this, but I only went like a hundred feet before I started getting headshake.

Is it the lean, or the pressure on the pegs that's doing the no-handed steering?

Mostly, it felt like I was just throwing my upper body around, and pushing my hands against the tank.

And yeah, I've seen the no BS bike. All I'm saying is I rode through some pretty good sweepers at 60 mph, no hands, no BS.

Hmm... seems like you need to set Keith Code straight. ;)

Hmm... seems like you need to set Keith Code straight. ;)

Maybe Keith needs a Ninjette?

Your post kind of reminded me of this guy:

K59eMpWsyNE

Is it the lean, or the pressure on the pegs that's doing the no-handed steering?

+1 on the peg pressure, and maybe a bit of knee pressing the bike also.

Just a guess, but I really think it depends on how heavy the bike is. I would imagine on a lighter bike, a shift in body weight can cause the bike to lean, and the leaning bike can cause counter steering. I would also guess that the further back you put your weight (off of the front wheel), the easier it would be for the leaning bike to cause the front wheel to counter steer. This could be why the "BS Bike" doesn't steer well because it puts a lot of weight on the front wheel.

Just a guess on my part. But I know you can ride no hands with no problem steering on a bike all day long. But I bet if you did the BS Bike thing on a bicycle, it would be harder to turn.

...and the leaning bike can cause counter steering.

Actually, I would say countersteering causes the bike to lean, and leaning causes the bike to turn.

And no, I wasn't texting.

the steering has to move for the bike to turn, when you lean the bike a bit on the side the steering will slowly turn by itself.. this could easily be shown by riding a bike with a fixed steering (I,d suggest doing that on a desert airport LOL).

You can absolutely turn just by leaning, you just can't turn very hard or very fast that way. Keith's point isn't that it's physically impossible, his point is that it's mostly useless in a racetrack environment where you need to get the bike from straight up and down to all the way leaned over in < 1 sec. In that context, the only way to do it is with bar pressure.

I'm a huge user and proponent of the countersteering method for quick and agile response. The body weight steering is when I'm just toolin around, no traffic and I want to slowly and gradually swish swash down a straight road. I never depend on body weight turning in serious riding unless I'm combining it directly with countersteering.

It's been a while since I've ridden up 198, but aren't a lot of those turns banked?

I think that would make it easier to negotiate the turns by leaning alone, unlike the Keith Code video where it's on a flat track.

If I could master this, I'd totally talk or text on my cell phone, read the newspaper, figure out crossword puzzles, eat my breakfast, change my clothes, cram for a test, practice the trombone, wipe off my windscreen, and cut cagers off to boot!

I notice the handlebars doing a little bit of countersteering on their own when I lean with no hands.

I notice the handlebars doing a little bit of countersteering on their own when I lean with no hands.

That is exactly right, if you locked the wheel straight the bike would not turn.If you had enough nerve to shift your weight harder you would see the handlebars move even farther but I wouldn't recommend it.

I have the ability to steer by sheer mental power alone.

It's an ancient technique that takes many of your lifetimes to achieve.

I would love to learn to do this, but I've got the problem of a large amount of bar shaking! As far as I know (though I haven't checked Kkim's thread about it in a while) we're still looking for a solution to that...... :confused20:

I would love to learn to do this, but I've got the problem of a large amount of bar shaking! As far as I know (though I haven't checked Kkim's thread about it in a while) we're still looking for a solution to that...... :confused20:

any mods that would affect steering? like lowering the front, tire size changes...etc?

Nothing yet, but I'm planning to get some clipons eventually.

I I've got the problem of a large amount of bar shaking! As far as I know (though I haven't checked Kkim's thread about it in a while) we're still looking for a solution to that...... :confused20:

I doubt there is one solution to bar shaking, but there seem to be speeds where it isn't an issue, and speeds where it is.

Seems every bike I've had shakes most around 40-45 mph. The ninjette does too, but at 60 mph its pretty stable...YmphMV.

It's less bad with new tires.

Less weight on the front, and accelerating slightly to keep the front light helps minimize it

Also slight acceleration keeps the resonance from finding a sweet spot.

You can get the same idea by just using a real light grip, too.

I just picked up a Cannondale M400 mountain bike. You learn balance really fast on that thing. I've tuned my balance in where I can ride almost endlessly without the use of my hands. It really translates to the bike. :)