View Full Version : Guinea Pigs needed for New BRT ignition testing


ztrack157
September 4th, 2009, 07:26 PM
The new non programmable BRT is here. Come with two maps preloaded and a rev limit set at 15000.


91-92 octane ie premium is desire. I just want to find out what some people think about it and which octanes like 87, 89, 91 it will run happily on.:thumbup:


These will sell for about $210 maybe a little less. And I need about 3 or 4 people to try them out.

SPECIAL PRICE! $140

Plasma
September 4th, 2009, 08:36 PM
The new non programmable BRT is here. Come with two maps preloaded and a rev limit set at 15000.


91-92 octane ie premium is desire. I just want to find out what some people think about it and which octanes like 87, 89, 91 it will run happily on.:thumbup:


These will sell for about $210 maybe a little less. And I need about 3 or 4 people to try them out.

SPECIAL PRICE! $140


are u serious??????
can i return mine and buy this .....
;/
lol

ztrack157
September 4th, 2009, 09:15 PM
LOL. NO! You already got the fully programmable for a massive discount. :)


These were literally just released and made available to me.

Plasma
September 4th, 2009, 09:53 PM
LOL. NO! You already got the fully programmable for a massive discount. :)


These were literally just released and made available to me.

true that ..didnt notice where it said it was NON programmable..;)..
cool deal!
everyone should jump on this it is a steal!!

Verus Cidere
September 4th, 2009, 11:56 PM
I'm assuming this is new gen only? :rolleyes:

ztrack157
September 5th, 2009, 12:06 AM
correct. unless you did some wiring mods.

randomwalk101
September 5th, 2009, 08:12 AM
wow..this is a nice price. I'd like to sign up but have few questions first...
1) What's the mapping is like compared to stock?
2) Is there a remote flipping switch to change between map? It would be ideal to have a good map for 87 octane and 93 octane so we can flip back & forth.
3) what if this non-adjustable unit's map doesn't work (too much or too little advanced)? How do we fix it?

ztrack157
September 5th, 2009, 10:35 AM
The mapping is better than stock. I need to ask BRT for the timing spots. I believe the unit comes with the same switch as the programable unit. 87 octane is not recommended but I want to see if it will function properly on it.

And I doubt there will be a to little adv issues. More than likely a too much scenario if there is one. I need to get the maps to see. Then if tweaks are needed I can see what BRT will do. Being a performance product premium fuel may just be a given much like running a supercharger on a car requires the good stuff.

randomwalk101
September 5th, 2009, 10:50 AM
yeah..non-programmable unit at lower price makes if the timing is correctly set...basically plug in & forget. Adjustable is a nice feature for tuning at first but once it's tuned, you don't need to mess with it ever again so kinda waste.


btw, why rev limiter set at 15K when stock valve train is rated 14.5K? I would think 14K should be the limit.

randomwalk101
September 5th, 2009, 11:00 AM
are u serious??????
can i return mine and buy this .....
;/
lol

lol..you can sell it to me at the discounted price you bought and buy this :D

ztrack157
September 5th, 2009, 01:25 PM
IDK why the 15k limit. By doing so you essentially just eliminate the limiter all together.

Greg_E
September 5th, 2009, 04:16 PM
It will make a good replacement for a failing stock CDI if you can keep the price down below $200 and it is truly plug in and go.

ztrack157
September 5th, 2009, 09:32 PM
it is truly plug in and go. and the price will be around $200 or so shipped. Margins on them are already super low and when I offer up a deal like this it is often below my cost just so I can get the word out.

randomwalk101
September 6th, 2009, 01:51 AM
Great deal. I want to sign up for one... Just not sure how to reprogram it if the programmed map is not working right
Posted via Mobile Device

ztrack157
September 6th, 2009, 10:20 AM
You cannot reprogram it. Thus the non adjustable part out there in texas you have 93 octane I think 91 or better will do you good. The maps will work BRT has put plenty of time in and done their homework to make sure you get a good product. The other alternative is to go with the programmable unit.

Racer x
September 6th, 2009, 10:37 AM
From playing with the adjustable unit .I have found the 250 ninja engine dose not seem prone to detonation.Even on pump gas And dose respond well to advanced timing . A non adjustable unit will be great with a pipe and some jetting.You should be able to hit 30 hp and hsve a lot more bottom end torque.
There is no reason to rev the stock engine to 15k but 13500 is kinda low.

randomwalk101
September 6th, 2009, 03:25 PM
RacerX
I noticed that you're rocking with jet 118 which is rich. Rich helps with detonation problem so may be why you were able to run at higher timing without issue
anyhow, it'd be nice to know the exact mapping & have the rev limiter lowered to 14000 for safety

Racer x
September 6th, 2009, 05:17 PM
Definitely need to know the timing settings. I was at #110 jets. Running that lean It had no more power past 3/4 throttle but it never detonated.
I did run into detonation with too much advance of the intake cam.

ztrack157
September 6th, 2009, 08:57 PM
I'm working on the map info. Haven't gotten a hold of BRT yet. But like Eric said detonation won't happen with this motor. He was screwing with the cams when he had problems.

ztrack157
September 9th, 2009, 09:53 PM
Ok setup is for stock motor running Premium. But given the higher RPM settings 87 should do.

Ignition spots are as follows:

Map1:
2500 40
3000 40
4000 40
5000 40
6000 40
7000 40
8000 40
8500 40
9000 39
12000 39
12500 38
13000+ 36

Map 2:
IS Coming

randomwalk101
September 9th, 2009, 10:14 PM
how's this map? Is it close to what you're rocking with the adjustable TIS?

ztrack157
September 9th, 2009, 10:21 PM
it is essentially the same minus 1 degree until 9000 rpm. Then it is milder then the BRT programmable and my own map being only at 36 at 13000 (mine is 41 with octane booster) which is one degree advanced over stock 35 I believe (eric correct me if I'm wrong). So no worries of going boom.

randomwalk101
September 9th, 2009, 10:38 PM
awesome...so there is a remote switch that you flip back and forth to change map?
map 2 is more aggressive?

ztrack157
September 9th, 2009, 10:40 PM
Waiting on them to send me map 2. I hope it is. Yes it should be a switch that mounts just like the other one. But maybea switch you have to manually change.

ztrack157
September 9th, 2009, 10:54 PM
Ok switch is mounted on bars. Confirmed.

VeX
September 10th, 2009, 01:13 AM
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27s_the_redline_of_my_bike%27s_engine%3F

It's an oiling issue evidently. And It'd be nice getting to up the timing advance a bit... But I don't have the moneys in the foreseeable future for this :( And seeing as the valvetrain starts to really run out of steam and the torque starts really falling off around 12k RPM causing the horsepower to drop big time past 13,500 RPM or so, revving to 15,000 would be... Really pointless without getting some beafier valve springs, different cams, and possibly doing some pocket porting and valve work to get some more flow :D

ztrack157
September 10th, 2009, 09:29 AM
I never said reving to 15000 was possible nor recommended. These just have no rev limit essentially. 14,500 is what the valve train is rated to and 14,000 is in the safe zone. Which I don't recommend going past.

randomwalk101
September 10th, 2009, 09:55 AM
I never said reving to 15000 was possible nor recommended. These just have no rev limit essentially. 14,500 is what the valve train is rated to and 14,000 is in the safe zone. Which I don't recommend going past.

if it's not useful, why not ask them to change at factory before you order them?

ztrack157
September 10th, 2009, 05:10 PM
Its like a car dealership telling ford to start putting carbs back on cars. I don't have that kind of pull. I will talk with them and see but it ain't gonna happen.

If one cannot pay enough attention to their bike to know when to lay off then it is not my nor BRT's fault. This is why there is a programmable model. Positive and Negative externalities John. You want a lower price your gonna have to make a concession somewhere.

VeX
September 11th, 2009, 12:45 AM
I'm not harping on it :p It's not going to cause the engine to blow up by over-revving to 15k. You just have to be careful when someone reads something like being able to rev higher with the lack of a rev-limiter because I'd estimate 90+% of people will automatically think, "Wow! This will make my bike more powerful as it can rev higher!" :evil6: I'd go for the programmable one all the way as ignition rev-limiters can be a god send.

Has Racer X gone with more aggressive cams and stiffer springs yet? I remember reading him considering it or something along those lines along with his other tweaks. That'd be interesting to see dyno's on if he can get another 1,000 RPM out of the engine.

ztrack157
September 11th, 2009, 09:09 AM
I don't think he has done the cams yet possibly the springs. Call up web cams inc. they will hook you up with a nice re grind that will get you about 2 more hp.

randomwalk101
September 11th, 2009, 09:10 AM
Its like a car dealership telling ford to start putting carbs back on cars. I don't have that kind of pull. I will talk with them and see but it ain't gonna happen.

If one cannot pay enough attention to their bike to know when to lay off then it is not my nor BRT's fault. This is why there is a programmable model. Positive and Negative externalities John. You want a lower price your gonna have to make a concession somewhere.


That's bad business mentality my friend. If you're a manuf the you create a product that people want to buy, not what you want them to buy. Remember GM? Of course if gm's case, "bankcruptcy is not an option" so you and I bent over and forked out billions of tax dollars to they can build craps that people WANT to buy now... Of course after they got the money, they bankcrupted... I guess it is an option now.
Posted via Mobile Device

ztrack157
September 11th, 2009, 12:58 PM
^ not bad business mentality. Your just the mouse I gave a cookie to.

Positive and negative externalities are certainly the biggest part of consumer business. If you want a rev limiter throw down and get the programmable. If you want a lower price get the non programmable and mind your wrist.

If you don't have an actual question pretaining to the product please do not post here. I'm here to give out information and good prices. Not to be told what I should do.

randomwalk101
September 11th, 2009, 01:35 PM
relax man. Don't take it the wrong way. I was just making a suggestion..not telling you what to do.
i'll prob go with the adjustable in the future. needs to get my finances straighten out first though.

iceman.kcmo
September 11th, 2009, 03:40 PM
So... is there any product like this for the 07 and older? Or a way to adapt?

ztrack157
September 11th, 2009, 05:11 PM
you would have to do a wire harness mod equal to the one in the tech section but with the 2008 and newer parts.

Racer x
September 11th, 2009, 07:09 PM
Don't worry about over revving the engine . First of all . It can take it . I have missed gears, dragged the rear tire. just plane held it full pin to see how fast it will go . And it is fine . I am very proud of how much this little engine of mine has had to Indore . I have raced it for two years and it is still running very well .

With the stock intake and exhaust it will be very difficult to get the engine to rev past 14000 RPM . It will simply run out of gas at that speed. And in sixth gear .I wish it would go over 11000 .

As for cams and springs . I am letting my engine builder handle that . I have my limitations and I know it . Figuring out the cam lift and duration is not something you can just do .
And for spring. O BOY that is the most critical part of making an engine that can make power at or above 13000 RPM . IF he can find off the shelf springs that have the proper length and pressure I will be OK for 300 bucks a set . If he can't ,I will have to have custom wound springs . They come in sets of 16 and cost up to 200 dollars each . That's right 3000 dollars for valve springs . My wife is not amused by that one.

ztrack157
September 11th, 2009, 07:20 PM
Eric. Try calling Kibble white. Bram had a bunch of stuff done for him there. including over sized valves, decking, and springs. His cost was $1800 for the whole shebang. So I'm sure it would be cheaper for just springs and valves.

ztrack157
September 11th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Map 2

2000:41
2500:41
3500:41
4000:41
4500:41
5000:41
5500:41
6000:41
6500:41
7000:41
7500:41
8000:41
8500:41
9000:41
9500:39
10000:41
10500:41
11000:41
11500:40
12000:39
12500:39
13000:39
13500:39
14000:39
14500:39
15000:39
15500:39
16000:39
16500:39

randomwalk101
September 11th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Matt, thanks for the maps. That mapping looks good...put me down as one of the "tester" :D

250fan
September 11th, 2009, 09:33 PM
I'm in as well!!! Thanks for finding out what the maps are! It appears that map two should serve well as its advanced 6 degrees over stock....which from what I have read is still within safe limits for this motor.

I'm willing to bet that map one will run pretty good on 87 and will need premium for map 2???

PM me with details on how to pay for it! Can't wait to try it out and test it!!!

ztrack157
September 11th, 2009, 10:01 PM
Preimum for map 2 yes. 87 for map 1 will work.

ztrack157
September 11th, 2009, 10:02 PM
PM me if interested.

iceman.kcmo
September 12th, 2009, 09:03 AM
ok. Wiring is not hard for me... Now i have a 94 ex250, and i noticed the mod is switiching the 08 to the 94 and older. Would you have a timing map just for my model, or would i have to tek the 1 degree hit in the lower range?

Also, what do the components of the older style cdi box(like mine) consist of? is it something like an Eprom? anywho, where wouldi find an 08+ box.. I really would like to get the timing played with. I already run 91 octaine in the bike, 89 and 87 has 10% corn gas and the bike doesnt like that..

I would VERY much be interested in getting one!

Racer x
September 12th, 2009, 09:52 AM
I don't think you need this . The 88-94 ninja 250 has 10 deg at 2000 rpm and 42 deg from 4500 with a 15000 rpm limiter. So you will not see much benefit . Also with a rocker arm valve train you don't want to rev that high for long . The oil supply issue is why they dropped the limit to 14500 in 1995 then 14000 in 05 . You can raise your timing mark in the mid range but I think you have 12.4 to 1 compression ratio so with out running race gas it could lead to detonation.

iceman.kcmo
September 12th, 2009, 10:53 AM
On my stock ignition, doesnt it drop off after 7k-8k more than this brt ignition?

Racer x
September 12th, 2009, 11:00 AM
On my stock ignition, doesnt it drop off after 7k-8k more than this brt ignition?

No. it holds the same 42 deg to the end.( I believe) That was why I adapted it to the 2008 in the first place.

randomwalk101
September 12th, 2009, 11:03 AM
On my stock ignition, doesnt it drop off after 7k-8k more than this brt ignition?

Kaboom!!!!

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=85&pictureid=2110

'88-94 - Timing specs: 10 degrees BTDC @ 1300 RPM / 42 degrees BTDC @ 4500 RPM

'08-09 - Timing specs: 10 degrees BTDC @ 1300 RPM / 35 degrees BTDC @ 4000 RPM

g21-30
September 12th, 2009, 11:09 AM
Wow! I love that graph. Wonder where that came from?:eek:

randomwalk101
September 12th, 2009, 11:16 AM
Wow! I love that graph. Wonder where that came from?:eek:

Sam, it came from the guy on the ninjette.org forum..I think his nick over there is g21-30 or something like that. :D

g21-30
September 12th, 2009, 11:20 AM
John, I wish the new (08+) service manual included all this good info! I'm thinking the 2 lines represent the CA model (lower) and the rest of the US model (upper).

iceman.kcmo
September 12th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Ok, well that is what i needed to know... so, there is no room for improvement for me?

g21-30
September 12th, 2009, 11:35 AM
Steve, you should check with Matt. I don't think the BRT is meant for the '88-94 models. BRT may have one for those years.

iceman.kcmo
September 12th, 2009, 11:40 AM
He said i would have to adapt it to mine, just like a reverse of what racer x did.

ztrack157
September 12th, 2009, 03:30 PM
Brt doesn't make pre gen models. Those bikes aren't even in indonesia. I think the racer x mod would work for this though. But only one way to find out. But as indicated for a pre gen model not needed.

Racer x
September 12th, 2009, 04:15 PM
It should work as it is just a matter of connecting 6 matching pairs of colored wires. The one remaining wire pair (solid Red ('88-94) and Brown with black stripe ('08+) get connected .

ztrack157
September 12th, 2009, 11:47 PM
These have all been spoken for please go to the GB thread if interested. And stay tuned for pros and cons from Jean, Greg, and Jacob if he comes by here.

250fan
September 23rd, 2009, 11:09 AM
Just got mine in the mail yesterday!!! I will be putting it in either tonight or tomorrow! Everything looks great....really quite impressed with the packaging and just wish all the good information was in english! lol ....This unit is definitely well built and it has a lot of features like a low voltage protector, anti kick back, and a blue eye sensor.....just wish i knew what the last two did, lol. The chip is also made by Phillips..,....I'll post more in a few days :thumbup:

ztrack157
September 23rd, 2009, 11:18 AM
Yes these are high quality units. You just need to learn how to read bahasa. This is why I offer help if needed.

randomwalk101
September 23rd, 2009, 12:00 PM
Cool...still waiting for mine. Actually I am out of town for work and won't be back until next Monday..hopefully it'll be in my parent's good hand soon. Let us know about the translation thing. I certainly don't speak Bahasa..

ztrack157
September 23rd, 2009, 12:38 PM
Well the booklet that comes with the Tis has a bunch of data in them. Primarily it is useful for the programmable tis and explians how to set certain functions. I am waiting on another tis so I can re program it and do a write up

250fan
September 23rd, 2009, 12:55 PM
yeah what he said.....you really don't even need the instruction manual......plug and play and then mount the handlebar switch.

Any idea what the "blue eyes", "anti kick back" and "low voltage protection" is or how it works?

ztrack157
September 23rd, 2009, 01:07 PM
Just bling. They won't tell me because they fear I may make my own here