I know i'm about to catch criticism for even mentioning the forbidden engine swap :eek: But i'm doing it. And there's nothing you can do to stop me. So, for any of you that want to follow along, I will do my best to keep updated and document as much as I can in the build.

The people and companies that have done this swap in the past have never really documented it well, and my goal is to do exactly that. I know it's "pointless", but it's a winter project.

Here is a link to the first video, if you want to follow my progress subscribe and keep an eye open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWEwtxsrjBA&feature=youtu.be

Please bear in mind the series is designed for a more casual viewer, but there has been a LOT of planning and technical work gone into this already and I will be more than happy to answer those questions and get extra pictures, etc, for any that are interested in the more intricate details.

Hey, awesome video!

Not sure why it’s shunned, doubling power to 60-bhp with just 20-lbs weight-gain is great upgrade. You’re still 40-lbs lighter than EX500 in street trim or 100-lbs light in race config. And you get faster-than-Ninja-400 speed without having to deal with EX500’s wet-noodle frame and Cadillac touring suspension settings.

Part of disdain probably has to do with how it’s been done previously with hacking up frame and rewelding motor-mounts. Along with flared-out bodywork zip-tied together due to using EX500 exhaust.

Here’s my recommendation for no-cut EX500 swap:

1. Motor supported by factory mounts using spacers in rear. One conversion was done this way about 6-yrs ago. You can weld-up an adapter piece that connects front of engine to bottom of factory mount. Much cleaner looking and 100% reversable. Not sure why anyone would want to go back to 250 anyway. Just cleaner from design and implementation POV to not chop up frame.

2. Custom exhaust 2-1 header. Similar to new-gen’s exhaust and run it past oil-filter underneath engine. Be sure to give filter enough clearance so it can be removed. Running exhaust under engine like 250 lets you put factory bodywork back on.

3. Connect 250 tach to left coil like in 250. Connecting it to igniter like in 500 will give you incorrect RPM readings.

4. Use 500 radiator. Make some custom mounts and attach to factory motor mounts like with 250 radiator.

Looking forward to seeing more of your project!

That's a freaking awesome project! I honestly wouldn't do it myself, because then I would have to learn some more crap and there isn't much support for it. My question is... why not just get the bigger bike? probably would be cheaper and more economical route as in time and money. Unless you just happen to find the parts for cheap or had them laying around.

Awesome bro, my 500 swap is in its final stages and I'll almost be sad when its done. Haha. Been enjoying the hell out of the whole process.

DannoXYZ, Thanks for the reply. 40 pounds was about the numbers I came up with too, haven't bothered weighing things so far but I might compare to a stock EX250 and EX500 when done (I have access to both). from my estimates and calculations, if I can make about 60 BHP (I will be doing a port and polish and building of the engine, as well as intake, exhaust, and AFR tuning, so I think 60 isn't unreasonable at all for a healthy engine), that should put me around the 330 bhp/tonne range which is about the same as the ninja 650. Motor mounts, I will deal with. But I have access to a TIG welder at least if I do need to modify. And bodywork, if it ends up slightly flared out like i've seen I will 3D print and colour match an adapter plate. However I will be fabricating an exhaust to try to avoid this.

Engine mounts: This is the first solid advice i've seen/heard on that front so I really appreciate it and will take that into consideration.

Exhaust: I plan on attempting to fabricate a dual exhaust that goes out the right side of the bike, with two cans. I really like that look. I think there will be space to do it since it is a hanging engine. I would like to build an X pipe instead of the 500's "H pipe" style, Where an O2 Bung will be welded into the middle of the X pipe for my wideband. My only concern is placement of the X pipe, I think unfortunately the oil filter may interfere with the design. But I don't mind removing my exhaust to change oil filter, I honestly don't care. Worst case scenario I will build a 2-1 system.

Tach: I'm working on something custom for the gauge cluster to hold my wideband and display everything I want to, so the stock tachometer will not be used anyway

Rad: I was actually hoping I could get away with the 250 rad. Opinions? I will be running an ECT sensor to monitor and if the cooling isn't adequate could add the 500 rad later. But looking at them it really doesn't seem much smaller.

justanotherone1 Thanks for your support. To answer your question... I'm pretty dumb, that's really about it lol. It would 1000% be cheaper to buy a 500. In this process I actually bought a perfectly running, healthy young 500, and then tore it down to this. 46548 (It was actually cheaper than any crashed parts bike I could find around here and I knew it would be in better shape.) So yes, in every way shape and form it would be easier and cheaper to buy a 500. but a couple reasons: 1, the 250 is prettier. just a bit too slow. The 600's look nice, but insurance is expensive in Ontario. 2, I really needed something motorcycle related to keep me occupied for the very long cold winter here so that I don't go crazy, and I enjoy wrenching. and 3, there's not much for custom bikes around here and I really enjoy experimenting and showing what I can do on my own bike, it gets me customers and lots of other work and allows me to network with some cool people.

JmcEx2fifty Awesome man! feel free to DM me if you want to swap contact info and if either of us are running into issues or something we can compare notes. The modification never stops for me so i'm not too worried about it ending lol.

justanotherone1 Thanks for your support. To answer your question... I'm pretty dumb, that's really about it lol. It would 1000% be cheaper to buy a 500. In this process I actually bought a perfectly running, healthy young 500, and then tore it down to this. 46548 (It was actually cheaper than any crashed parts bike I could find around here and I knew it would be in better shape.) So yes, in every way shape and form it would be easier and cheaper to buy a 500. but a couple reasons: 1, the 250 is prettier. just a bit too slow. The 600's look nice, but insurance is expensive in Ontario. 2, I really needed something motorcycle related to keep me occupied for the very long cold winter here so that I don't go crazy, and I enjoy wrenching. and 3, there's not much for custom bikes around here and I really enjoy experimenting and showing what I can do on my own bike, it gets me customers and lots of other work and allows me to network with some cool people.

JmcEx2fifty Awesome man! feel free to DM me if you want to swap contact info and if either of us are running into issues or something we can compare notes. The modification never stops for me so i'm not too worried about it ending lol.

No, I hear you! I just realized there was a link to the video and watched it lol! I'm an idiot. I absolutely love molstering my bikes too and customizing them. I feel it gives the bike a personal touch and attitude that expresses the riders persona. When it comes down to non-factory engine swaps or full custom suspensions and more technical things, I don't think I'm as competent enough in my mechanical skills as you are to get it done in the first shot or a few. I've never ridden a Ninja 500, so I wouldn't know the difference of the chassis when compared to the 250. However, I'm quite interested in the handling characteristics. Is the 250 chassis more maneuverable and agile than its 500 counterpart? Or are they about the same? And how will the Ninja 250 behave with a Ninja 500 motor? Will it feel the same as a 500? We'll find out on the next episode of DRAGON BALL Z... I look forward to the finish product :D. BTW your definitely right about the insurance on them. I pay only $18 a whole year for my Ninja 250... Liability only of course because let's be honest, who wants pay full coverage and get robbed from insurance companies? If the bike wrecks, and I pray it never does, then its so much cheaper to just go get another Ninja 250... These bikes are almost like disposable bikes sadly... but well built quality bikes nonetheless. You're right about buying the complete running bike as well... its usually cheaper than buying parts lol... I purchased a full running ninja 250 from an impound lot for $200 I used for parts. The damn back fees on the late registration fees costed more lmao! No point in buying parts that will run you more when you can get a complete bike. Keep the videos coming.

Looked at your topic, came in here hoping to see a CR500 engine dropped in... But this is ok too. :D Good luck. The Ninja 500 is a good engine that doesn't get the respect it deserves, and cheap too.

My question is... why not just get the bigger bike? probably would be cheaper and more economical route as in time and money. Unless you just happen to find the parts for cheap or had them laying around.
It’s a matter of performance, regardless of cost. My 500 swapped track bike weighs 330-lbs with fuel. That’s 118-lbs lighter than an EX500. And there’s no way you can make EX500 frame & suspension work as well as 250 without adding 20-lbs of additional bracing and gussets.

Lap-records has 250 1-sec faster than EX500 at Thunderhill and 3-sec faster at Sears Point. Now with double power, 250 should pull away even more. With 500 swapped 250, at track I was fastest in B-group beating all other 600 & litre bikes. In A-group, I’m still faster than all 600 bikes due to superior braking and cornering.

My next step is further weight reduction. Will build custom frame along lines of A•N•D bikes with perimeter trellis frame. Should be able to shave off another 45-lbs. Now were looking at 285-lbs with 60-bhp!

No, I hear you! I just realized there was a link to the video and watched it lol! I'm an idiot. I absolutely love molstering my bikes too and customizing them. I feel it gives the bike a personal touch and attitude that expresses the riders persona. When it comes down to non-factory engine swaps or full custom suspensions and more technical things, I don't think I'm as competent enough in my mechanical skills as you are to get it done in the first shot or a few. I've never ridden a Ninja 500, so I wouldn't know the difference of the chassis when compared to the 250. However, I'm quite interested in the handling characteristics. Is the 250 chassis more maneuverable and agile than its 500 counterpart? Or are they about the same? And how will the Ninja 250 behave with a Ninja 500 motor? Will it feel the same as a 500? We'll find out on the next episode of DRAGON BALL Z... I look forward to the finish product :D. BTW your definitely right about the insurance on them. I pay only $18 a whole year for my Ninja 250... Liability only of course because let's be honest, who wants pay full coverage and get robbed from insurance companies? If the bike wrecks, and I pray it never does, then its so much cheaper to just go get another Ninja 250... These bikes are almost like disposable bikes sadly... but well built quality bikes nonetheless. You're right about buying the complete running bike as well... its usually cheaper than buying parts lol... I purchased a full running ninja 250 from an impound lot for $200 I used for parts. The damn back fees on the late registration fees costed more lmao! No point in buying parts that will run you more when you can get a complete bike. Keep the videos coming.

I've been playing with bikes for a few years now, modifying and stuff. Granted it's a lot of my income now, but honestly one of my goals with this build is to show that this stuff is reasonably affordable and easy to do yourself with the right support. obviously I do have access to some pretty advanced stuff but i'll be trying to at least explore the options for those that don't. Like my last episode I made PAIR block off plates, which was basically free and can be done with hand tools, instead of just throwing money at it. (not sure if i posted that, if not I will.)

In terms of the handling characteristics, the ninja 500 is okay, i have ridden one a few times but never hard. The wheelbase is about 1.5" shorter on the 250, and the fork angle is a little bit more tucked under the bike, so it turns in a bit quicker, feels a bit more supersport like. The suspension is similarly not great on either of them. Overall the 250 just handles a little bit more sporty, the 500 feels a little more toury. In terms of a 500 swapped 250 with normal geometry, I would imagine it would feel pretty similar to the ninja 250 with a real heavy backpack, lol. it's an extra 30-40 pounds, but it is weight that's low in the chassis and close to it's natural center of gravity, so I think it'd feel pretty normal. But because I will be drag racing mine It will actually be lowered, so adding the extra weight and changing the geometry, i'm not sure exactly how it'll feel. Hopefully not horrible, but worst case i'll just use it for racing and nothing else. we'll just see what happens! like you said they are kind of disposable bikes. which is unfortunate, until you want to buy more of them, then it's kind of nice haha.

Don't even get me started on insurance lol. I just pay liability. $2800 for the year. 1 speeding ticket for 15 over, and only 2 companies in Ontario that'll insure me. the ticket comes off in May so hoping i'll be able to shop around and get something a bit cheaper. Maybe $2000, that would be a pretty good deal for here.

Thanks for the support!

Looked at your topic, came in here hoping to see a CR500 engine dropped in... But this is ok too. :D Good luck. The Ninja 500 is a good engine that doesn't get the respect it deserves, and cheap too.

That would be pretty cool! maybe some day i'll do that and put a track kit on lol. have some winter fun.

DannoXYZ That's some awesome numbers! As much as I love the twisties, this one will spend at least until August set up as a drag bike, probably with a little street time. Unfortunately there's no tracks near me at all besides for drag racing, so I won't get to play with it that way unfortunately. I do love getting my pegs down though so, we'll see.

Also here's a link to the last video,

"In today's episode we're talking about the function and purpose of PAIR valves (or Air Injection System), an emission control device, as well as making block off plates to disable this system. This is an easy and cheap mod to do at home so go ahead and break out the tools and follow along with this one!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J15mTZohr2c&t=2s

Rad: I was actually hoping I could get away with the 250 rad. Opinions? I will be running an ECT sensor to monitor and if the cooling isn't adequate could add the 500 rad later. But looking at them it really doesn't seem much smaller.EX500 radiator has more surface area and is thicker for more cooling capacity. Although for your area, drag-racing, 250 rad should be fine.

I do lots of trackdays and there are many summer days at Thunderhill that hit 46C and i see coolant temps creeping over 110C. I’m actually looking at curved radiators from some of bigger bikes to install.

EX500 radiator has more surface area and is thicker for more cooling capacity. Although for your area, drag-racing, 250 rad should be fine.

I do lots of trackdays and there are many summer days at Thunderhill that hit 46C and i see coolant temps creeping over 110C. I’m actually looking at curved radiators from some of bigger bikes to install.

Ohh that makes a lot of sense. If I was doing trackdays I would definitely be considering something like that, but like you said, drag racing it's not super important. And even for the little bit of street riding i'll be doing, I think it'll be okay. There's only a couple days a year that get over 30C, and the average highs on summer days are like 22-25C. I don't see it being a huge issue with how cool it is here.

Episode 2 is out. Not much relevance to the ninja 250 side of things, but for anyone interested, figured i'd keep updated.

"In today's episode we're talking about the function and purpose of PAIR valves (or Air Injection System), an emission control device, as well as making block off plates to disable this system."

https://youtu.be/J15mTZohr2c

It’s a matter of performance, regardless of cost. My 500 swapped track bike weighs 330-lbs with fuel. That’s 118-lbs lighter than an EX500. And there’s no way you can make EX500 frame & suspension work as well as 250 without adding 20-lbs of additional bracing and gussets.

Lap-records has 250 1-sec faster than EX500 at Thunderhill and 3-sec faster at Sears Point. Now with double power, 250 should pull away even more. With 500 swapped 250, at track I was fastest in B-group beating all other 600 & litre bikes. In A-group, I’m still faster than all 600 bikes due to superior braking and cornering.

My next step is further weight reduction. Will build custom frame along lines of A•N•D bikes with perimeter trellis frame. Should be able to shave off another 45-lbs. Now were looking at 285-lbs with 60-bhp!

Wow, awesome job Danno, I am sure beating up on the 600s and liter bikes feels awesome with the 250 that has the 500 engine. Even with 60 HP, you
are still at a disadvantage with bikes with well over 100 HP. Just proves the point, it’s not the bike, it’s the RIDER!

NorthernNinja, I am following this build. I wish I had your mechanical skills.:thumbup: Awesome job so far.

Looked at your topic, came in here hoping to see a CR500 engine dropped in... But this is ok too. :D Good luck. The Ninja 500 is a good engine that doesn't get the respect it deserves, and cheap too.

That would be a cool bike.

Starts searching ebay for a CR500 engine...…….


…...and they are not cheap!

Wow, awesome job Danno, I am sure beating up on the 600s and liter bikes feels awesome with the 250 that has the 500 engine. Even with 60 HP, you
are still at a disadvantage with bikes with well over 100 HP. Just proves the point, it’s not the bike, it’s the RIDER!

NorthernNinja, I am following this build. I wish I had your mechanical skills.:thumbup: Awesome job so far.

Thanks! This is my first completely custom build. I've only been doing this stuff seriously for a few years myself. If you're willing to put the time in, and ask for advice from others, don't doubt what you can accomplish!

VaFish I definitely had the same thought lol. not cheap but a pretty legendary engine in it's own right.

For reference, here’s CR250 engine in Ninja 250. Personally I think engine was mounted in hack way.
http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/f4/ninja-250-motor-transplant-motor-80704-post1327120/#post1327120

Was thinking of building my motor, but this seems like a better idea.
Subscribed

Was thinking of building my motor, but this seems like a better idea.
Subscribed

Extremely difficult and expensive to build up 250 engine for most people without their own machine shop. You're looking at couple grand total at least (or more). Need big-bore pistons and lots of machining to fit those pistons. Also need bigger carbs and lots of dyno-tuning. Highest we've seen is about 46-bhp and not sure how long that engine lasted.

For $200-300 you can pick up 60-bhp EX500 engine and carbs. Or better yet, aftermarket EFI system for $300-400 more.

Was thinking of building my motor, but this seems like a better idea.
Subscribed

A while back i remember seeing some high compression pistons and stuff like that for the 250. I think you can find a big bore kit somewhere, but honestly the amount of money you'll spend on it for the very minor performance gains, and making it harder to just live with and daily, you'd definitely be better off putting a 500 in it or something. to my knowledge the ninja 250 doesn't like more than about 40hp on stock internals, and in general, the more you tweak engines and fueling systems the less easy it becomes to just hop on and ride, run pump gas, ETC. you can make 60hp with a stock 500 engine and carbs all day long.

I see you're from Brampton? Last I checked NCK Cycle Salvage in Woodstock had a 500 engine and carbs, but you kind of want a full bike (wiring and exhaust are nice to have, as well as just small other parts). Sonic cycle in London had a full roller but they were asking quite a bit for it. honestly Kijiji or facebook marketplace is your best bet. look for something with bent forks or that got rear ended or something and pick it up cheap, they're common bikes.

Something to consider though is why do you want to do this? I completely encourage working on/building/engine swapping if it's something you enjoy the idea. But if more that 50% of your desire to do this is for power, I would say it's probably not worth it. just a little insight, i'm trying to do this on a budget and I have the tools and skills required to do all of it myself, and i'm still looking at a projected build price of $2500-3000 (not counting the price of the original 250) by the time i'm done not only the swap, but the instrumentation, tuning, and added safety things that come with adding more power and more weight. That's a very good downpayment on something new or the purchase price of a clean used bike with as much horsepower and better electronics systems.

Don't let me discourage you if it's something you really want to do, the reward of building something yourself is great and I wish you luck with it! Just thought i'd give you some things to think about before you get started. Any questions on it just let me know.

If I can get a whole 500 bike for cheap enough then I will do this for sure, I love my 250, and have done a bunch of other work last winter including better braking and full custom suspension. The bike handles so well now that I’m riding it full throttle into most corners. 40hp was the value that I figured would be right for the bike, but to get that from the 250 I would be building a time bomb. 50hp all day sounds like the answer.
I’m a machinist/fabricator by trade, so should have the skills and tools, last year I fit the internals from a zx6r fork to my 250. Now I have compression/re-bound control over a shim stack, paired with gsxr1000 Shock the bike holds the road like rails after dialing it in

P.S. it doesn’t matter what bike I have I will mod it unless it some collector bike but doubt I would own one of those. Basically I just want something fast enough to require throttle control with out braking all the laws by the time you’re in second gear.

P.S. it doesn’t matter what bike I have I will mod it unless it some collector bike but doubt I would own one of those. Basically I just want something fast enough to require throttle control with out braking all the laws by the time you’re in second gear.

That's awesome! I basically have the same exact views. I ride my 250 full throttle through most of the corners around here, a little more power would be great. But i don't want anything to get me arrested either lol. And I always mod everything. I like having something custom. Good to have another fabricator around. I'm looking forward to being able to do the zx6r front end eventually but the budget for this build doesn't allow that. I am going to steel braid cable for the front brake though.

That's awesome! I basically have the same exact views. I ride my 250 full throttle through most of the corners around here, a little more power would be great. But i don't want anything to get me arrested either lol. And I always mod everything. I like having something custom. Good to have another fabricator around. I'm looking forward to being able to do the zx6r front end eventually but the budget for this build doesn't allow that. I am going to steel braid cable for the front brake though.

I picked up the fork tubes for $120 and gutted them, then made all the important stuff fit my ninja. Slightly bent ones will be ok because you just need the stuff from inside, unless you really want the giant front end with inverted look

I picked up the fork tubes for $120 and gutted them, then made all the important stuff fit my ninja. Slightly bent ones will be ok because you just need the stuff from inside, unless you really want the giant front end with inverted look

I didn't actually know the internals were interchangeable. I figured they were a different diameter. That may be more in the budget. Do you have any pictures of that? I was thinking I'd like to do the full front end so I could have dual rotors and stuff. But I could probably find the internals pretty cheap

You can pretty much make anything fit when you are a machinist. I don’t think I took any pictures of the mods I had to do, but if you want to chat sometime I could explain what had to be done. You will need a lathe and a mill( or a very good drill press)

I didn't actually know the internals were interchangeable. I figured they were a different diameter. That may be more in the budget. Do you have any pictures of that? I was thinking I'd like to do the full front end so I could have dual rotors and stuff. But I could probably find the internals pretty cheap

Honestly I don’t see the point in dual discs other than the look. I upsized the single disk, and with aggressive pads I can one finger stopie want back to a softer pad to extend the life of the disc and now it’s a two finger.
The zx6r forks are 46mm and just look huge and out of place in my opinion.

You can pretty much make anything fit when you are a machinist. I don’t think I took any pictures of the mods I had to do, but if you want to chat sometime I could explain what had to be done. You will need a lathe and a mill( or a very good drill press)
Pretty much!

Definitely helps on a project like this, as does being a Fabricator and having access to all the proper equipment.

You can pretty much make anything fit when you are a machinist. I don’t think I took any pictures of the mods I had to do, but if you want to chat sometime I could explain what had to be done. You will need a lathe and a mill( or a very good drill press)

Definitely agree with you there! I have a pretty good drill press, but i've got access to a machine shop as well luckily. Once i'm at that stage if the budget allows it i'll definitely get in touch with you, sounds good. one question, if you swap the internals into the 250 fork tubes, what functions do you get adjustment of? the ZX6R I believe has compression, rebound, and preload, right? But aren't some of those external adjustments on the forks? Do you get the full adjustability in the 250 tubes, or is it just a bit better baseline?

Also what rear shock are you using?

And as for brakes, I didn't really think dual rotors would be necessary either, and I don't like the idea of adding all the extra weight. I'm going to go to steel braid brake lines to start and a better set of pads. Did you have to change the mounting of the caliper to go with a bigger rotor?

The rear shock is a GSXR-1000, I think it’s 03-04. Softer then stock but about perfect for one-up, takes some modding to get in and you lose the air box.
I kept all the adjustments for the fork, but preload became hight adjustment, and preload is done with washers now. It was a lot of work to keep compression control, could have done it easier if I wanted to take the axle out every time I wanted to adjust, but couldn’t live with that.
The bigger rotor came with a mount for the calliper.

I was actually hoping the rear shock would be a little bit softer, i'm pretty light so that's fine for me, and I won't be riding 2 up on this much if at all. And it won't have an airbox with the 500 engine, just pods. so maybe i'll look into that.

Where did you get the bigger rotor?

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46598&stc=1&d=1581549167 https://www.ninjette.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46599&stc=1&d=1581549167 https://www.ninjette.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46600&stc=1&d=1581549167 https://www.ninjette.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46601&stc=1&d=1581549167 https://www.ninjette.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46602&stc=1&d=1581549167

I was actually hoping the rear shock would be a little bit softer, i'm pretty light so that's fine for me, and I won't be riding 2 up on this much if at all. And it won't have an airbox with the 500 engine, just pods. so maybe i'll look into that.

Where did you get the bigger rotor?

I got a bunch of stuff from China because my list of stuff I wanted was bigger then my wallet, figured I would see how bad it was and eventually replace with quality as more money was available.. all in all it turned out great, wouldn’t really suggest that route for the average person, but for me I was able to remove most of the “China” out of the parts I received. Example: replace bolts with proper grade, shim or machine the part to work properly, or mix and match with oem parts to get desired results. Some stuff isn’t worth the postage, but some stuff surprised me “Arashi” is one that seems to be trying to make a name for them self’s. got the rotor and rear sets from them but if you get their rear sets make sure you get the ones for the 300 they improved them quite a bit the 250 model would not work till I took the China out of it and it still isn’t perfect but it works

I got a bunch of stuff from China because my list of stuff I wanted was bigger then my wallet, figured I would see how bad it was and eventually replace with quality as more money was available.. all in all it turned out great, wouldn’t really suggest that route for the average person, but for me I was able to remove most of the “China” out of the parts I received. Example: replace bolts with proper grade, shim or machine the part to work properly, or mix and match with oem parts to get desired results. Some stuff isn’t worth the postage, but some stuff surprised me “Arashi” is one that seems to be trying to make a name for them self’s. got the rotor and rear sets from them but if you get their rear sets make sure you get the ones for the 300 they improved them quite a bit the 250 model would not work till I took the China out of it and it still isn’t perfect but it works

Awesome, thanks for the help and the pictures! I do that a lot too, a lot of the things for this build i've purchased chinese versions of just because I couldn't even source the materials/components as cheap here, then just modify them to fit. Overall looks like a really awesome build! The suspension is the number 1 thing i'm going to have to look into once I finish the engine swap. So i'll probably do some of that stuff once summer comes and I work the bugs out of the drivetrain.

This discussion reminds me of HRC titanium exhaust I got for my VF500 way back in '80s. It came in big box with 37 individual parts. No manual, no instructions on how it goes together. Only thing in box was 3.5x5" index card that said, "cut and weld as necessary"! AHHAHAhahhahahah!!!!:rotflmao:

You can make brake-caliper adapter to fit any caliper to any disc-rotor size using rotary table. Here's some threads of interest:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=177974 <-- Arashi 320mm rotor
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281767
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=182732
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=305237

Rotary-table will allow you to mill around tube-section of homemade adapter shown with beveled base (or stick bolt through and use CNC lathe). Connection at base of plate should NOT be sharp right-angle like sticking separate tube onto plate. It should be beveled/angled gently at connection. You can easily chop off 150-200gm from those adapters with more optimised design, such as threading adapter itself so you don't need to use nuts on backside. And use hollow CBR chromoly bolts. Here's some pre-made off-the-shelf caliper adapters:
https://www.svracingparts.com/store/Ninja-250R-2008-and-Up-Brake-Caliper-Adapter-Brackets-p40099954
https://www.rsvracing.com/en/product/52992/front-bracket-ninja250-300-m4-100
Http://amazon.com/dp/B00B10DH7Q

Although for racing, I think stock caliper and rotor size works just fine with some grippy pads like Galfer. The steel Galfer floating rotor lasts forever. I'm on my 3rd season with it and there's absolutely zero wear!

LOL that's too funny. That's awesome, thanks for the resources, i'll probably stick with the stock rotor for now. I'm planning on running Galfer's steel braid lines so I was thinking about trying their sintered pads as well. I'm sure the lines alone will make a large difference though.

When is the next update coming? I’m getting impatient, lol

When is the next update coming? I’m getting impatient, lol

Lol, thanks for the support. I definitely want to get it out soon, I'm hoping to get some editing done tonight. There's been a good bit of progress made, but I've got shows this week coming up with my band so we've been rehearsing so much I haven't had time to edit. After that there'll be lots more content flowing though!

Following in Greg737's example with Ninja 250 and Bandit 400, it would be cool to see EFI conversion with 500 swap. Then add turbo!

There's 4-part Youtube series with turbocharging EX500. Never finished it appears. Guy's apparently has done numerous other turbo bikes, Hayabusas, ZX10Rs, etc.

Following in Greg737's example with Ninja 250 and Bandit 400, it would be cool to see EFI conversion with 500 swap. Then add turbo!

There's 4-part Youtube series with turbocharging EX500. Never finished it appears. Guy's apparently has done numerous other turbo bikes, Hayabusas, ZX10Rs, etc.


stahhpp I don't have the money right now lol. I agree, I would love to do both of those things, everyone has been trying to convince me. Particularly my program director in college, he builds turbo powersports engines in his free time so i've got guidance at least if I decide to do that. Maybe the season after this one, when I can afford to destroy engines :p

Did you give up? Lol

Did you give up? Lol

No! just been crazy busy lately, haven't even had time to work on it. But I've actually got several more days of work filmed since then I just haven't had time to edit. I'm getting a little editing done tonight, hoping for another episode soon

Well with all the corona virus stuff, i've had some time to start editing videos. Here's a short episode removing all the wiring and necessary components from the 500, lots more to come!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPpI6Z5HK-Q&t=90s

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OOoh, that's very nice!!!

Thanks, I did a TON of porting and polishing work on it too. Mostly just on the exhaust side, the intake is actually designed pretty well. port matched and made them symmetrical by volume too. Left the stock compression ratio so I could run pump fuel, maybe i'll give it a little higher compression some day but I think for now this will be an awesome upgrade.

Pulled my ninja apart today. rode it earlier today, then four hours later it looked like this:

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Not bad time, I'm definitely more familiar with this bike than the 500 lol.

Started following this because I'm gonna do my own engine swap soon(ish).
Seems like the internet is full of people saying "blah blah don't bother" so it's refreshing to see someone with the same, "who cares I'm doing it" mindset as me.

I'm gonna paint the engine up nice, too. Yours looks fantastic!

Starting fallowing this thread for the same reason, almost picked up a donor bike(had a great deal lined up) but decided not to with all the financial uncertainty right now.
I know that it would be easy just to a get bigger bike, but I have done so much to my bike to make it mine that it’s not worth enough to sell. Also I believe 55hp is probably the right amount of power to have fun ripping it without being insane.

I originally went with “get bigger bike” idea. Wanted more power for my 320-lb new-gen track bike. However, doubling power with EX500 gets me 118-lb weight penalty! EX500 is monstrously heavy with poor frame/suspension combo. I should’ve looked at track lap-records first to see that 250 is actually faster than 500.

Even my CBR600RR with 4x power isn’t as much fun as ninjette at track even though it only weighs in at 380-lbs (less than EX500 or even Ninja 300). Extra weigh really hurts braking and cornering.

Guys, don't get me wrong. I still genuinely believe upgrading bikes is a better way to do this. With all the time and money into this swap i could have easily customized a new bike in every way I could imagine. Admittedly I'm doing more than just the engine swap, i'm basically building a bike from the frame up. I could probably just slap the engine in cheaper, but as it stands I could have sold my bike and used the other money I spent to buy pretty decent used ZX6R or something, the reason I'm doing this is because I really want to have something completely unique where every little thing is exactly what I want it to be.

It's also a business investment, as a mechanic/custom guy, having something that shows all my skills from engine building to electronics to paint, will help me secure customers from bike shows and stuff provided I do a good job. I still don't honestly believe it's the greatest idea if you just want a bit more power. That being said, I absolutely love everything about my ninjette, and I would never discourage anyone else from doing the same if they want to. And i'm glad to have your guys support!

Started following this because I'm gonna do my own engine swap soon(ish).
Seems like the internet is full of people saying "blah blah don't bother" so it's refreshing to see someone with the same, "who cares I'm doing it" mindset as me.

I'm gonna paint the engine up nice, too. Yours looks fantastic!

Thanks man! lots more paint work to come in the future for this build, I'm a perfectionist and I want everything to look stunning. The goal is to make it so pretty that you don't even notice the engine swap until I start it, then it's like an added surprise lol.

Easiest power upgrade is 25-shot of nitrous!!! :)
Will cost you in long-run with those refills!

Thanks man! lots more paint work to come in the future for this build, I'm a perfectionist and I want everything to look stunning. The goal is to make it so pretty that you don't even notice the engine swap until I start it, then it's like an added surprise lol.

You're talking to the right person, then! People too often skimp on finish/paint and it makes me sad to see beautiful machines done so ugly.

Can't wait to see it all. I'm a painter myself but I haven't had the fortune of the space to do it as much as I like. My bike came out nice back in 2013 so now I need a nice engine to match lol.

Easiest power upgrade is 25-shot of nitrous!!! :)
Will cost you in long-run with those refills!

True! Maybe some day on the drag strip if I get tired of having the connecting rods inside the engine, lol.

Daks Awesome man! I've been getting into it over the last couple years, I don't have a booth either or the money to practice as much as I'd like, I'm definitely a perfectionist though, I can't have a build that performs well without looking good as well. That's why I did the engine, despite it actually not being visible inside my bike at all, it's the small details that matter to me. And if you manage to peak inside my fairings, I want it to be clear that it's just as special on the inside.

Just a question for other people who have done this swap in the past. I'm currently making the mounts for the 500 engine, But looking at the 500 chassis, the engine mounts are slightly right of center on the frame to allow proper sprocket alignment, but on the 250 frame, the mounts ARE centered, and lining the 500 engine up the way the 250 engine is mounted puts the drive chain too far to the left, and it interferes with the frame. Has anyone else dealt with this? Keep in mind, my bike is the new gen. I haven't heard of this issue, but maybe the pregen bikes this isn't an issue? I haven't talked to anyone who's done this in an 08+ bike yet. thanks!

Pictures please! As many as you can. If you can get some with the engine in place with the sprocket exactly where it was on the old motor that would be great.

You may notice on EX500, that there's giant spacer on left-front engine-mount to account for this engine-mounting offset.

Use two frame-holes with wooden-dowels and metals brackets to make an alignment jig. Make a sharp pointer that touches centre of 250's output shaft. Then stack 500 engine up on wooden boards/shims until sprocket is in stock location.

Then you'll see how mounting ears line up. You can use two bolts, one spacer and one metal bracket per ear to reach motor-mounts on frame. Or cut off frame mounts, bolt them to engine and wiggle them around to see where to weld back on.

Front can use Z-shaped bar-stock between engine and factory mounts. Angle and depth of middle section to span offset amount.

Picked up my engine finally! '07 500 with *drumroll* 218 miles on it :eek:

I'll probably end up making my own thready once my journey is truly underway.
But you're still a vein of inspiration I'm watching closely.

To deal with removal of rubber mount-inserts on engine, I recommend getting set of FOG's solid motor-mounts. Then welding them to engine. This really simplifies mounting to frame without having to deal with wobbly factory rubber inserts that throws off measurements. Solid mounting also maintains stock 250 quick-handling and maneuverability since engine is used as stressed-member.

Stock EX500 uses rubber-mounting with thin perimeter-frame... wet-noddle. Many people converting over to solid-mounts report much-improved handling.

Daks I'm excited to see it! I have no issue with you hijacking and asking questions in here but it'd be awesome to see you have your own thread to follow along with! I've got more stuff coming soon, I'm pretty behind on videos but I have lots of footage to edit and post.
DannoXYZ That's interesting that you mention that. I was actually going to reuse the factory rubber-mounting, I tend to ride my race vehicles on the street more than I probably should, so I thought it would be smart. Do you use the solid mounts on yours? and how much of a difference in vibration do you notice? I will only be drag racing this bike, not riding it on track, and I don't know that the extra frame rigidity would make that much difference for my application? But chassis stuff is something I'm still new at so i'd like to hear your opinion on my situation.

As far as mounting them goes, I'm getting new mounts machined and i'm just going to align the engine in the frame, then tack them onto the frame where they need to be, That's the plan anyway. So I don't think it'll make much difference to me either way in the difficulty of mounting.

Also, I kind of don't want to support fog in any way personally. I can't argue with the quality of his work, but I don't like the way he treats people who want to learn, experiment or do things differently than him. That's how great things are created. I get that being older and having experience, you get tired of the same old questions, but it doesn't mean you can't be humble when other people actually know things you might not, and I genuinely think his mentality towards other people is toxic to our sport. Anyway, little unrelated rant. Bottom line is, for my application, do you really think I would benefit from them?

Yeah, fog does come across bruskly like grumpy old man. That's OK, I just ignore him until I need him for something. Like making me parts that would take me too much time to make myself.

For street bike and dragster, rubber mounts would be better. I do notice more vibration coming through. Both because of bigger engine and solid mounts. For drag-racing, won't make difference either way. For just riding around town, more comfortable with rubber. Glue them in place with rubber or contact cement so they don't throw off your measurements by moving around.

Any new stuff? Just picked up my donor bike, wanted to see the completion of this so maybe if I had everything ready I could do it in a weekend and save downtime. Might have to make it a winter project though.

Well, it's been a lot of years. Are any of the guys who have done this still around?

I've moved a couple times, had some career changes, built a couple other vehicles. And finally, I feel like I've got the resources and confidence to actually continue on this build. I would love to pick up a new ZX4R next season, and I am definitely considering it. But for this year, it's time to get back to this poor old girl (time off work permitting).

Anyone still have their 500 swapped 250's? How are they holding up in the 2020's?

As someone who went from an '09 500 to an '18 400, I have to say that's the practical way to do it. The 400 has slightly less power on paper, but the EFI helps a ton. In normal riding, it feels a tad lower in torque (just doesn't quite have as much grunt as the 500 did), but feels better in every other way. It's still the budget Ninja, but it does have slightly better better stuff (like bigger forks) and modern features, plus an amazing aftermarket. The top tuners are getting 60hp out of them (with a lot of work admittedly), and they're a tad lighter than the NewGen. In my eyes, it really seems to be just about everything you'd get out of a swap like this, plus some other upgrades.

But I do appreciate the work you're doing. If you enjoy it and want to make something unique, it's worth it. If you keep up to your standards, I think it'll be a great bike when it's done.

Thermo-Bob (https://watt-man.com/thermo-bobs/) stuff has become a bit of pet project for me (with a lot more theorizing and planning than actual doing). If you're going to use the stock EX500 thermostat housing, I have an idea for how you should be able to mod it to basically build a Thermo-Bob into the stock parts. The remote thermostat is really good at staying cold from lack of flow, which keeps it from opening, which keeps the coolant from flowing, which keeps it cold... The dual coolant outlets on the engine make it more annoying to mod than most of the other little Ninjas, so I'm not sure if you had planned to use the stock parts there or fab up something else.