Hi All....
I have a problem with my new bike ..... it rides too hard.... i mean really HARD
after 30 minutes i feel beat to death....and that's on the street I haven't had the guts to take it off road being that rough riding
...the thing is I can leap way up and land with all my weight on the seat and there is no give at all..... NONE....
but I have hit a big chuck hole and it did move that I know for sure....
I weigh 185lbs and I think the bike is sprung for a 300 pounder !
so I was thinking of trying to replace the spring on the rear shock to see if I can make it softer riding....
problem is I have no idea what spring rate to get... 200lb. ? 500lb... i haven't a clue and I can't get any info on what that spring is rated at on the bike but it's gott'a be really hard !
the rear swing arm does indeed move freely i checked that.... it's the darn spring is super hard....
the bike weighs 450lbs ( slightly more than the Triumph 750.)
the front forks I have adjusted just about right now so when I go over a bump the front isn't so bad but the rear is like a kick in the pants even on small bumps..... i have 28psi. in front and rear for tire pressure
and that only helped a very small amount... most of the bumps around here are bigger than that
.......
to be honnest I really don't know what to do ..but I gott'a do something !
this thing beats me to a pulp before I go 30 miles !
I suppose I could fill the saddle bags and top box with rocks to give it some weight but that is going the wrong direction if ya know what I mean ! LOL
....
I have the pre load all the way to the top of the adjustment so the bike sets as low as possible ...if I move the bike by dragging it's ass around the tire usually drops a good 4" but comes back when I straighten it upright...lol that's how loose it is !.... so it's not too much preload ! but that spring does not flex at all.... so I was thinking of replacing it with something lighter
....anyone have any suggestions ?
i'm thinking a 250lb spring but that may well be too light and I don't want to buy 4 or 5 springs just to find the right one for my weight !

I am guessing wildly but I think the back of the bike weighs 200lbs trying to lift it from the rear( which i can almost do but not quite !)
so to me a 250 to 275lb spring should do it I think....

.... Suggestions ?????
Bob......

Bob, I would suggest putting the back wheel on a bathroom scale...... most go to around 300 lbs..... be sure to hold bike upright at the handlebars when weighing.
I believe you also have to add your weight to the equation when figuring out spring rate.

Also roll other wheel onto piece of 2x4 both wheels are level with scale.

It's not springs, it's damping that affects ride-quality aspects you're talking about. Turn down high/low-speed compression damping.

Also, your lowered bike is probably bottoming out on bumps. Sag should be about 1" not 4"! When there's no more suspension-travel, full force of impacts comes through. Remedy for this is actually stiffer springs to work with less travel. Increase preload and raise rear-end back up and you'll find it's much more comfortable!

Most likely pivot-bearings in your swingarm and linkage are dry and need greasing. I do complete teardown of suspension and grease everything every winter. Makes HUGE difference in ride-quality. Quick test on your bike would be to remove rear-wheel and disconnect lower shock. Test moving swingarm up and down by hand. If not glass smooth, definitely needs cleaning and greasing.

OK good info there guys thanks...
Danno it's not bottoming out... at least I am almost certain it isn't.... even though it rides like it.... before I lowered it I had the same problem all my weight bouncing on the seat didn't make the bike react at all.
(no flex downward).. it's like the hardest rear suspension I have ever seen on a bike !....all i did was back off the preload adjustment all the way to the top of the shock and that lowered it about 2"
........
I think I'll swap out the Ninja and put in the RX4 in the shop and see what I can do for that rear suspension...
I want to pull the shock and spring off and see if by chance the spring is removeable .... that will also tell me if it's bottoming out for an absolute certainty.
they may well have added stops to keep the rear wheel from touching the fender well...( the ninja's wheel can touch the fender well)... but I have not been able to compress the rear anywhere near that far....
....
the XR650L Honda I had, had an extremely hard suspension spring in the rear..... but it at least flexed when I bounced on it..... this thing is like a park bench !
.....
...
so I should weigh the back of the bike ( 2x4 under front tire so it's level)
sit on it like normal and measure/read the reading on the scale and get a spring for that weight?.....
it's supposed to have fairly long rear suspension travel too so it will be getting a spring that has that travel and weight ....I THINK !!!!!!
....
I've seen one place with springs that should work for $38.00 in just about every shape and size... so to me that is the best option
....
....
Bob......

Not sure if they do street bikes, but Race Tech might have a calculator for spring rates.

Well, from what I have learned on the net about this bike is ....it is sprung very hard... a few guys on the China riders forum had the same complaint as I do
it rides too hard ! that seems to be due to the fact that they added a 650lb spring on the rear shock because guys were bottoming out on jumps....
so they fixed that..... but if your not jumping the bike you still have to contend with that very hard spring... "Sigh"
the fella on that site told me that he got a totally new shock and spring from
one company and that cured his problem that spring was 450lb weight....
i contacted the company and they wanted $850.00 for the same set up but said I would have to get a spring elsewhere as they don't have that spring any more
i told him that was too expensive for my blood and thanks anyway !
so I wrote to CSC and Joey gave me a bunch of leads of people tackling this problem on different sites ...which was nice... and one guy said he got a spring from Maximum motorsports that worked for him... so I went to maximum motorsports and found a spring I liked at 8" tall 2 1/4" I.D. and 475lbs weight.
with a price of $90. +$20. shipping so I ordered it... then they took the money and said the shipment has been delayed because the part is on back order and will be delayed at least 2 weeks or longer.....
.....
so that is where I sit....
...
the one guy said that his 450lb spring was just a little too soft , that is why I got a 475lb instead of a 450lb....

....
here's what I plan to do....
I plan to pull off the shock /spring and put the new spring on that shock
if the spring keepers don't fit I'll make new ones on the lathe.
and then I'll put the old shock and new spring back on the bike and bring the preload adjustment down to the top of the spring and maybe a bit more depending on how much sag I get. but I will still be able to touch the ground
with both feet or I won't do it..... it is far too dangerous not to be able to touch the ground with your feet than I am willing to over look to inconvenience..... Yes I've heard all the rebuttals to that statement....from, you'll get used to it, to you can learn to ride a tall bike..... but nothing about it is safer to not be able to touch the ground ! and i think everyone knows it isn't..... to me it's a stupid trend that the manufacturers has forced upon us
thinking ALL americans are 7'6" tall and weigh 250lbs soaking wet.....
they don't have this problem in china they make lower bikes there !
but the bikes they do import on occasion are a major problem people can't touch the ground !
.....
think about it... if you have to slide your butt off the seat to give you enough
leg length to touch the ground what happens in that emergency stop? you fall over because there wasn't enough time to slide off the seat..... and that will get you ran over in traffic.....
if your riding a bike where you cannot touch the ground I'm not calling you stupid by any means.... but you are taking a bigger risk than I am when you ride your bike.... LOWER the stupid thing it's not that hard !
......
sorry.....RANT over !
....
Bob.......

Ok...an update is in order here....
the spring I got from Maximum motosports was 2.5" I.D. so I sent it back and got my money back and I've tried several times to talk to Mike down there but I guess he is just too busy to answer any questions on their invintory....
the problem is the spring I need, is not a car shock spring it's a bike shock spring and they seem to be scarse as hen's teeth !
I need a 2" I.D. spring 10" long with a rate of 450lbs to 500lbs
I found a few on Maximun motorsports web site but I am very reluctant to do any business with them again as they screwed up the 1st order I gave them
sent me 2 springs instead of one and charged my account and THEN told me they were on back order..... not the most reputable company I have ever dealt with by any means .... though I did finally get that transaction completed I think (pay pal has yet to deposit the money in my account though).
i really don't want to do business with a CAR spring place for my motorcycle as they have no idea what I need even though I give them the dimensions they can't seem to find anything like it ... really weird !
......
So I am hoping someone here will know of a spring manufacturer that will sell me a spring that might fit my bike ??????
I will check with Race tech and see what they have right now ...
...
Bob......

I can second Race Tech, they will certainly be able to help you. Of course, they're local down here, so all the riders in these parts use them pretty exclusively, but I believe they're a pretty much accepted supplier for all things suspension-related. Even if they don't have CSC in their catalog (or maybe they do, I don't know!) they can get you a spring based on your specs.

well, they do have a very screwy site...extremely hard to navigate through
but after an hour of poking around I did find a place that said if your bike isn;t listed either call us or fill out the pdf. and email it to us and we'll get back to you..... problem is to fill out the PDF. you have to remove the shock to get the measurements.... AURGH !
I'll probably give them a call it's easier I'll just have my wife listen for me LOL
turn the phone to max volume and put it on speaker ! if everything is quite I can usually hear that then !
... it's a bitch getting old !
....LOL
Later !
Bob.......

Yeah, definitely worth a call. That website is showing its age.
Ditch the cellphone and get a landline, that's the only way I can hear anything and I'm not even old! We've all got 5G in our pockets so Bezos can empty our bank accounts, but we can't hear what we're trying to say to each other.
Dagnabit

So earlier you said...

I need a 2" I.D. spring 10" long with a rate of 450lbs to 500lbs


and now...
problem is to fill out the PDF. you have to remove the shock to get the measurements....

So do you or do you not have measurements of factory shock spring?

I do NOT.... I have 248mm long,80mm wide,50mm travel for the stock spring
and that is not enough....
the stock spring's I.D is 2".... I measured that.
length near 10", i measured that...
tried to make it flex and it was like pushing on concrete....obviously.
....
so I need a spring that is 2" or a tiny bit over that in Inner diameter.
it needs to be 9"~10" long over all (most are 9.7" ...they will work for length)
and it's rate around 510~520 lbs.
....
....
some guy said his stock spring right near 650lbs
another guy bought a high tech shock system for his RX4 and he had to buy the spring elsewhere because they didn't have one in stock... he got a 511lb spring
and has ridden it all over the place back east and loves it he does say that it is a bit too soft though.... so I am thinking a 520lb spring would be perfect for me
.... been doing alot of looking at race tech's web site and I think I found a few springs that will work the springs cost about $50.00 more than elsewhere but at least they say they have them in stock.... for $150.00
problem is I emailed Race tech and they haven't gotten back to me yet
I guess they expect you to call !
I tried a second time to get into the same place where I found an inventory list of springs on Race tech's site but could not find out how I got in there the first time.... their site works off of your bikes make and model and they don't have a CSC RX4 listed (big surprise)
..... I keep forgetting I am looking for a 500 to 550lb spring not a 450 to 475lb spring and the one I found on their site was a 485lb.... A bit too weak
.....
you can't really buy anything off their site either because of the way they have it set up.... it takes the year make and model to make it all work right...
I put in a KLR 650 and had no trouble getting to the buy stage but without that you can't get there..... and I don't really feel safe ordering something for a KLR 650 for my RX4 if you know what I mean .... they just give you a part number of their recommended part for that bike.... and I have no idea what fits a KLR !!!!!! .... but it's the only way to get into their goofy setup !
....
so calling is the only way it is going to work for me I am afraid.
....
why they don't have search our inventory for rear springs I don't know
....well they do but only after you put in the make and model ! LOL
...you can't get to their inventory any other way, I don't think...
this is not the first time I have ran into this put in the make and model and we'll fix you up BS.... it's about the 3rd time and NONE of them have a CSC RX4 in their list to choose from and you cannot add any other one.
it's very frustrating !
maybe I'll just put the stock spring on the lathe and take a carbide cutter to it and trim it down 1/8" from top to bottom ! LOL:doh:
.....

Bob....

OK Looks like I will have a 537lb spring coming soon.....
Matt at Race tech answered my email with a few options of ones they have in stock.... so I emailed him back with some info and told him I want that one and on the phone he said he will email me the info so I can pay for it...
I told him that sounded good to me !
... looks like it will fit perfectly...and the rate might be a bit stiff but it's bound to be better than what is on it ! I guess I will find out !
.... $149.95 is what it cost...
...so that is that I guess ... now I just gott'a pay for it and wait for it to get here!
.....and hope that cures the harsh ride !
....
later all !
Bob......

Good luck, I hope it works. You're fortunate that CSC put a rebuildable shock on there, lots of the bigger manufacturers don't even do that.

yah it seems to be fairly high quality .... I can get the spring off easily by just taking the preload nuts off and the spring falls off ... getting the shock out however is another story.... the top bolt is the hardest but I got it's number now ! HAHAHHA takes a #8 allen wrench on the head on the left side and a 17mm socket on the right to get the nut off but their a bitch to get in there, ya gott'a move the wiring harness over and it don't want to move much ! and it will take the socket off the extension if your not real carefull or ya don't hold your tongue right ! then you have to get the magnet and fish the socket out of the bowels if the machine because it won't hit the floor !
.....but it should be fairly straight forward .... I know what to expect this time !
HAHAHAHHAHAHA
We all know how that goes ! HA !
....
And THIS time I will grease everything ! ..... ( I'll remember right ? )
......

Bob......

Interesting.... let's see how that new spring works.

Should also measure factory spring that came out and verify its actual rate....

Danno I would love to do that but HOW could I do that ????
I have a bathroom scale and some 2" water pipe to make a long lever
there should be a way to calculate the spring's pressure... but i dunno ! LOL
..... you know the old saying if ya don't use it ya loose it ? well that's me and math ! HA !
....
I have a 2 ton come along and a tree.... .... but I need a scale for that !
....
Bob......

Factory spring is about 500 lbs IIRC

Danno I would love to do that but HOW could I do that ????
I have a bathroom scale and some 2" water pipe to make a long lever
there should be a way to calculate the spring's pressure... but i dunno ! LOL
..... you know the old saying if ya don't use it ya loose it ? well that's me and math ! HA !
....
I have a 2 ton come along and a tree.... .... but I need a scale for that !
....
Bob......
Bathroom-scale will work:

1. put spring on bathroom-scale
2. get 8-ft long 2x4
3. slide scale+spring up to some ledge at height of top of spring
4. put ruler up next to spring
5. wedge 2x4 under ledge and press on spring to 1" compression (need helper to read ruler while you press other end of 2x4")
6. scale-readout = spring-rate in lbs/in

http://www.off-road.com/images/content/4-Dirt-Bike-Spring-Rate-Tester-5-11-15.jpg

Ghost I hope your wrong about that....supposed to be 650lbs !
....
Danno... problem is bathroom scales usually only go up to 300lbs (at least my scale stops at 300lbs)
...
I wonder if you could squeeze the spring 1/4" and then
multiply by 4 for lb/1 inch.... that should get me in the ball park...
problem is, that may well lift the Honda CRV off the ground ! LOL
.....that should work eh? springs are usually linear....except the progressive rate ones ....and I think the stock one is progressive rate.
I could dig out the old press I made and put the 20 ton Hydraulic jack in it and see if that would do it... but that will only tell us if it's 300lbs or not
.... I just got up so my mind is still fuzzy.... can't think about this till I've had coffee LOL ! .... yah just got up at 11:50pm.... this is going to be a long night ! AH HAHAHA.:doh:
....
Bob...

Also roll other wheel onto piece of 2x4 both wheels are level with scale.

It's not springs, it's damping that affects ride-quality aspects you're talking about. Turn down high/low-speed compression damping.

Also, your lowered bike is probably bottoming out on bumps. Sag should be about 1" not 4"! When there's no more suspension-travel, full force of impacts comes through. Remedy for this is actually stiffer springs to work with less travel. Increase preload and raise rear-end back up and you'll find it's much more comfortable!

Most likely pivot-bearings in your swingarm and linkage are dry and need greasing. I do complete teardown of suspension and grease everything every winter. Makes HUGE difference in ride-quality. Quick test on your bike would be to remove rear-wheel and disconnect lower shock. Test moving swingarm up and down by hand. If not glass smooth, definitely needs cleaning and greasing.

Danno.... there is no sag.... none at all just flex of the tire !
I had my Kid bounce on it with the new spring installed and I could not see the swing arm flex at all just the tire flex....
I suspect that the spring I just installed is too strong at 537lbs...
... this time I lubed the link and pivots and found they were extremely hard to turn I got the center one to pivot under it's own weight finally after spending 10 minutes turning it by hand I didn't do that to the other 2 pivots I just lubed them good with white grease.... they are definitely stiff !
I'm thinking that all the stiffness from every pivot point is adding up to freeze the rear swingarm completely I think I will loosen the bolts on the link, just to be sure there is some give, and give it a ride ( not far)
and see if it rides better....
all those pivots were bone dry only one had grease in it the one that attaches to the swing arm from the link.... the other 2 were bone dry and near impossible to turn by hand .... I don't understand that.... this is a new bike !
ok someone didn't lube the rear suspension i get that.... but would that make it so tight it wouldn't even flex ? or perhaps the bolts are too tight and locking the things in place so they can't pivot ? ....
the center bushings that ride on the bearings are supposed to be able to be crushed and still pivot that's why the bolts are supposed to be tight
but it acts like they lock up the entire suspension !!!! WTF !
.... I got more thinking to do on this.... something ain't right !
.....
Bob......

ok here is what I did I loosened the nuts on the lower end took the nuts off and put blue locktight on each one and put them back on close but I can still move the washer with my fingers ...this is so I know that the pivots will indeed pivot... I bounced on the seat again and it might have flexed but it is still rock hard I will take it for a short ride and see if it handled the bumps on Hoy road better than it has been I doubt it but it is worth a try.... if the results from that ride are negitive I will get a lighter spring AGAIN ! I bet you I have to get a 450lb spring before I can feel flex in that thing
.... if Ghost is right and it comes stock with a 500lb spring then I just wasted close to $200 bucks for the spring.... ( shipping and handling all added up to $197.00) .....
....if on the other hand it rides alot better and it doesn't beat me to death
I will be looking into why the pivot points down below are not flexing when their tight.... I suspect the bushings are all indersize on their thickness ! and when you tighten then down it locks the joint !
if so I'll be making a bunch of shims or new bushings on the lathe !
....
but I really expect it to beat me to death like always and if that's the case the spring is too strong.... I'll get another spring from Race tech the same as this last one but with a 450lb rate and try it again and hope that works !
....maybe I should go for a 400lb one as it's really hard to make that bike compress in the rear... the front is fine.... rear is hard as a rock !
..... reminds me about the time I took the shocks off my 90cc Honda and put 2 pieces of water pipe with holes drilled in them for the shock studs..... they stayed on the bike 2 days.... talk about a hard ride ! funny thing is I can't remember Why I did that..... silly but I did do it ! .... I had to drill the holes with a hand drill .... no power at the Ranch at that time...that was a job ....
a rat tail file made them fit though ... LOL....:doh:
.....it's raining here again...
we need the rain so I'm not going to complain....but we did have a good day the other day it was in the 70's ...didn't last though !( I mowed the lawn !)
...HAHAHA
Bob........

Eh? I thought you said you greased everything on 4-May???

If you can't tighten bolt without locking up suspension, that's very poor design. Take look at how Ninja 250's swingarm and shock-linkages work. There are needle bearings and the shaft that goes through bearing is what's pinched by bolts. You can tighten those bolts as hard as you want and it won't pinch bearings!

You really should gather some concrete data before proceeding further. Measure factory OEM spring that came out of shock to know for sure what you're dealing with. Given low-quality assmbly and lack of QA, i'm sure they just grab any spring from parts bin that's available. When they run out, they just grab from next available bin. Your spring may be completely different than other's. So measure yours to know what actually came on your bike! Sure, compress it 0.25-0.50" to get within bathroom-scale's capacity.

Also if you need to leave nuts loose to allow suspension to pivot, get some ny-lock nuts along with Loctite. Be sure to move swingarm up and down by hand with NO shock installed to verify it pivots smoothly.

Post some photos of this suspension, in pieces and assembled. Would be interesting to look at design.

Have to set the sag/preload on the bike? The rear shock is adjustable, what setting is it on? Did you test/inspect the shock itself when you had the spring out?

Check out the videos on how to set the sag, and what suspension is.

https://youtu.be/ZtzTyCKh5fY

https://youtu.be/uz_p-iu9C_s

Here is a link to race tech, check out the calculator.as well.

https://racetech.com/VehicleSearch

Below is a picture of the NewGen rear shock installed in my PreGen 250.If you look at the preload adjuster it's set on the highest (stiffest) setting. If you need it softer, adjust the preload by turning it down.

Once again what was the sag on the bike?

Here is an excellent write-up by InvisiBill on the old Ninja 250(88-07) also Ninja 500 suspension by a fellow forum member on ex500, and Ninette. On theses bikes a lot people are going with a new newgen (08&up)250/300 rear shock. It's a cheap, effective way to get a much better shock.

I've done quite a bit of research and played around with a few different options on my 500, but definitely listen to the guys here who actually have real-world experience on these bikes.

Getting the spring right for your weight will allow the bike to bounce the proper amount. That allows the damping to have the best control over that movement. If your spring is too soft, it will bounce around too much and your damping system will have to work harder to try to constrain that extra movement. If the spring is too stiff, it won't compress enough to absorb bumps, and the wheel will skip. http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...ension_Preload is a long read, but it has tons of info, and I think it does a good job explaining everything with examples.

According to RT's calculator, the rear spring is ideal for someone who weighs 220lb (100kg). People here have said that may not be exactly right, but the spring is definitely quite stiff compared to the other little Ninjas (it's 73% stiffer than the 500 spring). I'm assuming you're lighter than that, so going to a softer spring should make the rear work better for you. The PreGen's spring is good for about 140lb on a NewGen, but the shock is a little shorter so it would lower the rear and make the handling a bit slower (plus it lacks any preload adjustment). If you can find a decent one cheap on eBay, it might be worth tossing one in just to try it out though (they're usually ~$20 here).

The stock shocks are simple, non-adjustable, non-rebuildable, lowest-bidder units. Aftermarket shocks give you more adjustment options for tweaking the damping system (usually separate for compression and rebound) and are built with higher quality, replaceable parts (so when something wears out on it, you just replace that one part instead of buying a whole new shock). £395 is US$615 which seems somewhat expensive to me. A new Penske is about $800 here, and used ones can be half that. The nice thing about buying a new shock is that they generally include a spring and calibration to match your weight. It should be basically a perfect drop-in upgrade.

If you can do a bit of mod work, the GSX-R shock swap is a pretty cheap way to get a decent shock, and there are a variety of spring rates used on the various models (there's a chart of different rates/weights toward the end of the thread). It's not made specifically for the Ninja's suspension, and requires a bit of work to make it fit, but they're usually on eBay for about 1/10 the cost of that Brook shock. The SV650 shock doesn't have all the adjustments (it's comparable to our stock shock) but should require less work to install, as another cheap DIY option that's probably more suited to your weight.


NewGen Fork Spring Rate Chart
Again, the NewGen has the stiffest fork springs of the little Ninjas. It's still a tad low, but should be acceptable if you're smaller. If you're a fatty like me, it's still quite a ways off, but it is possible for it to match up fairly well to the weight of a smaller adult (unlike the PreGen and 500, which have essentially useless fork springs).

The stock front and rear are pretty mismatched, so if you're smaller and go with a lighter rear spring, you're actually reducing that mismatch and making it less-bad than stock. On the PreGen and 500, replacing a soft rear spring with something appropriate can exacerbate the problems of the super-soft fork springs (because you're increasing the mismatch).


If some of the links don't work,etc me know.

Have to set the sag/preload on the bike? The rear shock is adjustable, what setting is it on? Did you test/inspect the shock itself when you had the spring out?

Check out the videos on how to set the sag, and what suspension is.

https://youtu.be/ZtzTyCKh5fY

https://youtu.be/uz_p-iu9C_s

Here is a link to race tech, check out the calculator.as well.

https://racetech.com/VehicleSearch

Below is a picture of the NewGen rear shock installed in my PreGen 250.If you look at the preload adjuster it's set on the highest (stiffest) setting. If you need it softer, adjust the preload by turning it down.

Once again what was the sag on the bike?

FYI he's talking about his CSC, not a Ninjette

Wow thanks for all the comments guys ! this is a CSC RX4 a 450cc motor in a heavy frame the bike weighs 450lbs so they say but I've never felt a 450 lb bike that weighed this much, I'd say it is closer to 500 lbs soaking wet....
.... Danno if it's locking up the suspension because of the bolts being tight it certainly was not by design , it is designed with Needle bearings and bearing bushings that go inside and ride on the needle bearings that the bolts go through a good High quality design just like the Ninja's if anything it is a defective part in there... but I have not seen anything amiss, it all looks great and brand new....
....
Ghost there is no sag on this bike ....it does not compress at all when you get on it or bounce on the seat the only flex you feel is in the seat and the flex of the 28 psi in the tire.... i wouldn't have been able to get the 120 miles on this bike without reducing the air in the tire..... but the bike rides so extremely hard it is unreal... so I am trying to fix that....
.... the rear swing arm does not move at all when you get on it it's like straddling a pallet there is absolutely no flex ! so you can't set the Sag...because there is no sag....
I have lowered the bike by about 2" but the rear suspension is the same as the day they delivered it as far as the flexing goes
...when I lowered the rear I simply took the nuts on top of the spring in the rear shock and raised them to the top of the shock ...that in effect lowered the rear 2"....
....
in all honesty I believe the only problem is that the spring they threw in there is just way too stiff..... there was some serious issues early on with the rear of the bike bottoming out when going over jumps so they fixed that....
...well it looks like they fixed it too well and made it way too stiff...

I'll let ya know what I find out....
......
Bob......

Just a F.Y.I thing here.... when I jacked up the bike in the shop (concrete floor)
with a modified scissors jack, I got the rear tire off the ground by about 1/2"
but the swing arm should have pivoted down as it was it was holding the spring tight to the top pre-load adjusting nuts..... it didn't even move...
I thought that strange so I moved to the back of the bike and put the toe of my foot on the rear adjuster bracket for the rear wheel and pushed , nothing happened I then Pushed real hard and pulled up on the saddle bags to give me more force .... nothing no movement at all and it should have at least moved to the ground but it didn't ....
....
I just came back inside ( 30 degrees out there) And I had the Kid bounce on the seat again..... with the bolts loose under the bike on the linkage no movement at all...... I did not have the rear swingarm retaining bolt loose however.... now I am thinking I need to do that too.....
.... it's like it can't flex because everything is too stiff.....and the spring is too strong.....
....
Bob.......

Again, move swingarm up & down with no shock installed.
And measure actual spring-rate of factory spring along with one you got from RaceTech.


Post photos of OEM and RaceTech spring side-by-side.
Post photos of suspension.
Does it have rising-rate linkage? Or is shock attached directly to swingarm?

LOL what your asking for is more work than the Bike ! LOL
I'll see if I can figure out how to measure the springs
.... to get the shock out I must remove the lower linkage i know that the swing arm does move but how easy it will move is another story...
I'd have to remove the rear wheel to do that right.... and that wheel is very heavy.....reminds me of the back wheel of the VT1100 honda I had !...
....
Ok I'll see what I can do !
.....

I got some more info... the stock spring is 810 lbs. no wonder it rides so hard right !!! And putting in a 537 lb. spring should by all accounts make for a softer ride according to Mr. Young on the china riders forum. but I feel no difference at all. he went the route to have a custom shock made and tried 3 springs for it... but that was months ago and he can't remember all the details..... he's old and has had recent health problems .
.....
Bob......

Messing with the bike in the cold shop has been put on hold for a while AGAIN... the weather turned cold and we had an inch of snow last night !
I am really looking forward to warmer weather it seems like it is slow in coming this year ! my poor apple trees just has their new leaves frosted on
and perhaps some blossoms so there won't be an abundant crop of apples this year....
....
I'll continue to hunt for a lighter spring for the RX4 in the mean time !
....
Bob.....

Again, move swingarm up & down with no shock installed.
And measure actual spring-rate of factory spring along with one you got from RaceTech.


Post photos of OEM and RaceTech spring side-by-side.
Post photos of suspension.
Does it have rising-rate linkage? Or is shock attached directly to swingarm?


I don't know what you call this linkage Danno I guess it's a rising link setup
like the 2012 ninja but the link is reversed and the shock on the other side
the shock is not hooked directly to the swing arm....
the dog bones are not the same as on the ninja it's a u shaped arm arrangement that hooks to the frame and then to the lower link and then the lower link hooks to the swing arm and the shock the movement is very small
like 2" max the rear travel is something like 4.5" is all
Peter Youngblood is sending me 3 springs for free all I have to do is reimburse him for the shipping.... but I think I will add a bit to that <Grin>
....I doubt those springs will help but it will give me more options !
as the one that works for him is on his bike hehehehe !
..... we'll see what happens !
.....
Bob.....

OK here is a pic of my shock on the ground under the bike....
and a pic of the 2 springs I have, the Red one is the stock shock spring and the blue one is the one from Race tech. the last 3 numbers on it are 496 so I am assuming that means it is a 496 lb spring.
....
Bob....

Oh and btw, I can move the swing arm up and down fairly easily...I had the bolt loose so I torqued it down and did it again and it gained a bit of drag to it ...not much but some ....
....
I also took the spring off again and actuated the shock by hand a few times
it does not move very fast at all no matter how much I push or pull on it in either direction....(and I have the adjustment screw all the way to the fast side) I expect that to change however with time and some miles on it that shock hasn't really been used it rides too hard to actuate the shock LOL...... so for a brand new shock i guess it's working great....
it's just that the spring is about 3 times too stiff for the bike ! at least that is my take on the situation ! LOL

I bet some pencil pusher edited the program and put the wrong spring in there .... because surely they wouldn't sell their best bike with too stiff of a rear spring in there on purpose !!! lol....
we'll see what happens
Bob.......

OK here is a pic of my shock on the ground under the bike....
and a pic of the 2 springs I have, the Red one is the stock shock spring and the blue one is the one from Race tech. the last 3 numbers on it are 496 so I am assuming that means it is a 496 lb spring.
....
Bob....

Well, there's your problem. Factory spring is dual-rate design. Probably starts at about 300-lb/in. Then after 1-2" of compression or so, it switches to 600-lbs/in (8 active coils go down to 4). That's why you're getting beat up when it hits bumps.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48902&d=1652314440

RaceTech single-rate spring starts out too stiff compared to stock. That's probably why you've got way too much preload and zero sag with it installed.

I say get 300-lb/in 10" spring and be done with it! All this messing around without quantitative data wastes lots of time & money.

BTW - do you have manual that shows how shock goes together? Or take photo from side with it installed so we can see how linkage connects frame & swingarm.

I'm thinking rising-rate linkage combined with dual-rate spring is too much increase in wheel-rate as suspension compresses. Rising-rate is crutch and hedge against good suspension design. Modern suspension designs are getting away from rising-rate linkages and attaching shock directly to swingarm.

Here's one from GSXR1000
https://www.tlzone.net/attachments/rearshockmod002-jpg.37394

Aprilia Dorsoduro
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1EUOIQkC1r_4bgb79yryxVN_z4AFPK-ji

"RaceTech single-rate spring starts out too stiff compared to stock. That's probably why you've got way too much preload and zero sag with it installed.

I say get 300-lb/in 10" spring and be done with it! All this messing around without quantitative data wastes lots of time & money."

there is no preload with the stock spring and there is no preload with the racetech spring both are too stiff ! the weight of the bike hits the spring and stops dead...
there is no sag at all so far, it's like sitting on a park bench no flex at all when you get on it even with the pressure reduced in the shock itself I thought that might have allowed it to flex but no, it didn't....it was worth a try....
CSC says the only spring they carry is the stock one... they pointed me to "Cogent" for a solution.... ( like I have $850 for a shock for a $5000 bike!)
.....
I guess the only thing I can do is keep buying springs of lower and lower value till i find one that actually makes the ride softer.... stupid way to do things but that is what I am left with !
.....
Bob......

Sorry, I'm using "preload" incorrectly. Should say "sag" instead since that's what we want. Some amount of compression with no load on bike. Apparently RaceTech spring is still too stiff to allow any amount of sag.

Since you have decent ride-quality when not hitting big bumps, I say next spring should be 300-lb/in linear-rate. Will be same rate as stock initial-rate and not double itself to beat you up on bumps. Does top of shock connect to frame or to swingarm? Looks like they copied Honda's ProLink or Unit ProLink linkage.

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1Z8wVWx_e08a-6VKZY3kKx83YxgevgGFb


Here's Ducati Multistrada V4S
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1ZNeS2iRIjV0OnxyXmxvU_11qNb4EwHIt

LOL Well Peter Y. was surprised at the money I sent him by Zelle
for the postage on the springs... I sent him $60 bucks I told him those springs are worth that to me.... they should be here next friday I think...USPS.
....hard to say what I will get ,I bought a "Pig in a Poke" HAHAHAH
but he said he threw in the spring from his RX3 which is a 250cc and lighter bike so I am hoping it will work on the RX4 !
....
Yah Duel rate spring or pregressive rate I don't know which....
I am thinking of attaching my mini dash cam that I got to the bottom of the saddle bag and take a movie of the rear tire in action and see if that stupid swing arm does actually move with the stock spring in it ...I bet you dollars to donuts it doesn't !
....
My XR650L I had was really tall and sprung really tight but it was liveable
it was hard riding as well but nothing as hard as this RX4....
i find it extremely ODD that this bike is so hard !
.....
there was a few guys on the china riders forum that also complained about the ride 3 of them out of about 8 or so owners one modified the seat...extensively then sold the bike a few months later...(wanted more power) another paid Cogent an hefty amount for a whole new custom made shock that he had to get the spring for.... and the other guy said yah it rides hard but I'll live with it I don't go off road much...
.... and I wouldn't have gotten 120 miles on this bike without lowering the air pressure in the rear to 28 p.s.i. that made it almost rideable
.... but now I am tackling the problem... i want to do it right... with sag adjustment and all that....
.....
I'll keep ya informed of my progress or lack there of LOL
Bob.......

The rocker's leverage-ratio seems a little extreme.

N250 pre-gen = 1:1.5
N250 new-gen = 1:2.2
RX4 = 1:3 ?

It's already taking an extremely stiff dual-rate spring and multiplying it by 300% !!!

yes seems like a bike of extremes to me .... LOL
so if it has a 3:1 ratio on the link that would explain the super hard spring
it takes more spring pressure to hold the bike up.... but it looks like they went over board..and put in too much spring....
I wonder if it's a viable idea to remove the linkage and weld in a bracket on the rear swing arm and get a new shock and hook it directly..... not really worth thinking about actually ..especially since I only need the right spring and it should work great !
makes me wonder if there would be an easy way to increase that leverage
and use the stock spring ... like a 1/2" extension to one of the pivots or something like that....
....Not being able to measure these springs and get their rates is really hampering me ! I can't even make an educated guess on their rate as they are just too stiff for anything I have available....
.... I bet I could squeeze the springs in the tailstock of the lathe though
but I would need a thin scale that goes to 1000 pounds
I could easily measure any spring then so it might be worth buying a scale ...if I can find one that would do the trick....
.... the Mill also has a good ability to compress a spring like that.....
it might upset my little mill though ! LOL I made a camper jack Knee for it and it can lift over 1200 lbs with the knee alone.
I'll see if I can find a scale that would work !
....
Bob......

use some calipers to measure wire-diameter on spring. We can make some good guesses as to alloy used and calculate spring-rate.

Also measure gap between coils at tightly-wound end.

I think I found a scale that would work......at " https://www.amazon.com/CooPee-Platform-Capacity-Shipping-Weighing/dp/B08DNYGF7J/ref=sr_1_18_sspa?crid=3D5903GMQF3Y9&keywords=scale+for+packages&qid=1652495873&sprefix=SCALE,aps,295&sr=8-18-spons&psc=1" .....(without the quotes)
660lb should get it to compress some ! twice the weight of the bike after all ! LOL
.....
....I might get that .... and see what these springs actually are....
I've noticed that the Race tech spring' number is just a part number and it does not tell you the spring rate... the weight they gave me on the invoice is 500 lbs so it varies alot of what they say it is and what you actually get.... I would almost bet you the number is it's actual rate ,not what they say it is.... "it's close enough...ship it!"...LOL.
...
Bob......

I have some real nice calipers now... I can do that ! I also have some micrometers but I am not real sure how to read the silly things HAHAHA
in all my years of motorcycling I've never needed them you can easily tell when the piston is wore out because of the slop in the cylinder you don't need a feeler gauge or Micrometer to know that ! end play of crank shafts can be done with a feeler gauge if you set up a bolt and bar set up... but 90% of the time if it's got end play in the crank that you can feel it needs new bearings anyway ! LOL.....
.....
anyway..... I'll see if I can do dat...
Later !
Bob.......

OK good news I think I found the problem BESIDES the spring....
I got to looking at the shock in the vice it moves up and down nicely but with alot of resistance as a shock should....
I got looking at the length of the springs and the length of the threads and it hit me..... the shock must be kept from bottoming out it's only got about
4" or 5 " of travel in the shock itself did I screw it up by taking out all the preload ? with the shock fully extended and the spring on the shock ( the stock one) there is about 1" of threads left on the bottom of the upper part of the shock when the adjusting nuts finally contact the spring and there is about 4" of threads above that..... so when I backed off the pre-load nuts to the top of the shock the bike lowered accordingly... the problem is the shock is bottomed out in this position and the spring is not being compressed at all
....and I wonder why it rides so hard !?!?! of course it rides hard the shock is bottomed out !!!!! when I lower the pre-load that action moves the shock piston closer to the bottom.... but when the shock's stroke is so short you do not have that much to play with.....
SO.... what I've done, and am going to do .... is put the preload adjustment nuts at the top of the spring (and lock them there) with the shock fully extended....that will give me MAXIMUM shock travel....and unfortunately maximum seat height too... I think the only way to get the seat height lower is a lowering kit or make up my own horseshoe/dog bone
....
....
"who would'a thunk it" that backing off the preload nuts would bottom out the shock ? that never once crossed my mind, but that is what is going on on this bike.... all this time it was My screwup of not understanding the system it's used in ! AURGH !
I have no doubt it will still ride like a truck... a tall truck mind you but still a very hard ride because before I did anything to that bike I rode it down Hoy road and it liked to beat me to death.... so I don't expect any change
but at least it won't be bottomed out all the time !
Oh well Live and learn !
....

at least I took the Triumph out for a ride today had to push it the last 200 feet to the gas pump because I ran out of gas and blew a fuze at the same time.... still can't figure that one out ! LOL....
and Yes I had to clean the pilot jets to get it to run good again....
I'm hoping the new gas and the run will make her happier now....
....
later all !
Bob.......

Bob, don't quite understand your "bottomed out shock" idea. Please post photos of shock:

1. Bare shock with no spring, showing all adjustment threads. With ruler showing eyelet-to-eyelet length

2. Shock with spring in "bottomed out" configuration

3. Shock in new "not bottomed out" config

Thx :wave:

I can't do that buddy I put the shock back in the bike with the stock spring
it does compress a bit when you take it off the side stand and stand it up ... but when I sit on it it's no give at all.... weird !
.... the shock itself has a 2" stroke believe it or not !
and with that short of a stroke you can adjust up the pre-load nuts to the point of the shock bottoming out and the nuts are completely clear of the spring
as you adjust up the preload nuts you drop the shock piston in it's cylinder
if you do that far enough you'll bottom out the piston in the shock !
as the swing arm comes up and the frame of the bike goes down the shock is compressed I had it all the way backed out on the pre-load nuts to get the seat as low as possible.... bad move ! at the most you can go about 1/2" with this shock and spring and that's probably WHY they put such a heavy spring in there with only 2" of travel before bottoming out it doesn't leave much wiggle room
so I put the pre-load nuts at the top of the spring with the shock fully extended on the bench and locked the nuts together there....then put it all back together.... and yes Now I can only touch with the balls of my feet not flat footed anymore.... Phittttt !
but I want that full extent of that short travel shock which I probably have now.... ( not that I would bet on it by any means, LOL.because you can see it compress a little when taking it off the side stand ) not much but some.
I didn't take it out for a ride today I got fussing with the Triumph instead
I'll do that tomorrow .... I expect the same hard ride I had when I first rode it... but at least I know it is not bottoming out because the way I had it.
I expect it to be hard now, although I have let the air out of the air shock and that should help some but I aired up the rear tire again so it's going to be rough ! but at least on the big bumps there might be some cushion their wasn't any before a lump of asphalt on Hoy road would literally dislodge my helmet ! and I strap it down good too ! that is because I was riding it with the shock bottomed out and the spring had no effect...it wasn't even in the picture ! now the spring will be working and we'll see how bad it is !
sense the first ride I have been fine tuning this suspension I got the front forks real close to the point of not diving when the front brake is applied
which is good, and I loosened up the rear shock because they had it on the hardest slowest position now it is as fast as it can go !
although I am not real sure that is going in the right direction or not on the rear shock I figure the faster reaction should give me the smoothest ride
it will also catapult me over the handle bars because there is LESS dampening too... so if that becomes a problem I'll turn it down in the back.
.....
Yes My initial quest for flat footed ness on the RX4 has been a boondoggle !
a total screw up because of that short stroke in the shock the only way to lower that bike in the rear is with a lowering kit, or for me to make one myself !....... the front forks will go back up...I haven't done that yet but I will
but I will not put them all the way flush with the triple trees... I'll leave some rake in it because I like the quicker steering that provides !
.....
yah a 17" shock with only 2" of travel boggles the mind at least 4" of threads for the preload nuts so you can back them all the way off and bottom out the shock...... it's the only bike I have ever messed with that you can do that !
I guess they used a part they had on hand because it makes no sense at all !
....
Normally when you back off the preload to the top of the shock you have plenty of travel left in the shock to function... that worked on the XR650L I had ... but not on this beast you back off the preload nuts and it bottoms out the shock completely ! STUPID beyond words !
....
oh and the center to center on the suspension is 2.75" not quite 3" just so you know... LOL....
....
did that answer your questions ?
....
Bob.....

did that answer your questions ?
....
Bob.....

Not really. I'll work up some pictures for you to verify if I understand you correctly.

Also with 1:3 rocker ratio, 2" travel on shock is 6" range on swingarm!

Well I just came back from a ride on the RX4.... a short ride but down my favorite bumpy road... and the bike is alot better riding now.... I can live with it that way.... it's still a tad on the hard side but so much better than it was it is unreal.... I put in a 400~450lb/in. Spring... I had to make a spacer because the spring was so short but I did get it to work.... and I lowered the pre-load a bit and that also helped I can touch flat footed with both feet but I have to work at it.... ( it's not like I had it before but close)....
I was hoping to hit the invisible bump that always knocks the bejesus out of me ....and sure enough I did.... and instead of launching me it was just a OOF bump.... that one gets the front and rear always... on every bike I have !
funny thing is you can't see it.... or I would go around it so I call it the invisible bump !....LOL....
all in all it is a firm ride , not squishy at all but there is give to it now instead of the bumps being volant,they are more rounded ...about like a NORMAL BIKE !!!!! hahahahaha !:doh:
all in all I am quite pleased I'll live with it this way !
so it's time to put some miles on this puppy !
.....
Bob.....:bounce:

I took the RX4 out for a ride a bit ago.... it ran great and rode fairly good this time
I filled the tank with premium, to see if it will idle better as it misses a beat every once in a while at idle and coughs when you take it off idle some times....
seems to be running a tad better but I really can't tell at the moment...
I took it for about a 30 min ride and found I could finally relax on it which is something new..... i straightened out my arms and just crused along at about 70mph on the freeway
and then turned off onto a back road.... I decided to go the long way home and I wish I hadn't as I came up to a stop sign and put my foot down and the weight shifted and I couldn't hold it up and it fell over....again ! that pissed me off ! that thing is darn near as heavy as the 1100 honda I had and I never dropped that thing because the seat height was 28" not 32" I told the wife when I got home that if I can't find a way to lower that Pig I will sell it ! it's too heavy to be that tall ! at least for me !
right now I noticed that when I was putting my feet down I was only touching with the balls of my feet on either side ..... and to add aggravation to frustration, when it layed over the gas cap was leaking like it was half open ...gas ran everywhere I probably lost a half a gallon of gas before I got it back up on it's wheels ! when I got home I invistigated the gas tank cap... it indeed was locked i opened it and the O ring was indeed in place.... I closed it and noticed it was about 1/16" from being flush i pushed down real hard and heard a click...and it stayed there I thought OH COME ON !!!!
it looked like it was completely closed but it wasn't ! ...
I tell ya I am having more trouble with this bike than I ever had with a bike ...and it's all because of me .... I'm thinking maybe I should give up riding all together if I can't keep a motorcycle upright I shouldn't be on one ! talk about frustrating !
......
Bob......

fighting laws of physics again!

While you're teetering on four contact points, it's like 4-legged table with 2 short legs. With bike perfectly vertical, impossible to tell which way it's gonna lean. And you don't have firm footing on either side to catch it!

Now 3-legged tables never teeter-totter! Physics, triangle, most stable support. Bike's got 2 points on ground already. You only need one foot on ground to complete triangle. If you intentionally lean it 1" to either side, you know for sure it's NOT gonna tip the other way. Scoot one ass-cheek off to that side as you're leaning it over 1" and you have full foot contact AND weight on that foot for traction and support.

Wise person once told me: "Rather than trying to cover entire World in leather, just wear shoes!"

Now close your eyes and IMAGINE... seeing yourself going all over the World... anywhere you wanna go... And imagine finding all sorts of fun and awesome bikes... The imagine yourself hopping on any bike, anywhere in entire World... and riding it and having loads of fun... and never dropping it! Wouldn't that be so much FUN!?? Being able to ride any bike anywhere in entire World, knowing... for sure... 100%... positively and absolutely... that it cannot get away from you and fall over???

LOL the power of positive thinking !?!
..... In other words Ride it like a Tall bike Bob.... stop treating it like a small dirt bike and you'll do better ! ..... and I have to agree totally on that because I think that is what I've been doing ! it's not a light bike, and it's tall to me.
And that combination is getting to me !
....
I think it's time to take a brake from that beast and give "Miss Piggy" a rest !
....
I have a plan to make a new 'LONGER"lower link for the RX4 now....
we'll see how that turns out LOL... I'll buy some 1/4" 1.5" bar stock and go from there....
.....
I got 151 Miles on it now ! LOL....:thumbup:
....
Bob....

Longer dog-bones will also reduce leverage-ratio, giving you softer ride...

Thats good to know as the 400~450lb spring I have in there now is a bit on the hard side.... a little softer would be nice....
on the ride this afternoon I went on a road that when I first got the bike I took it on and it beat me to death, today it was noticable but not too bad...
there is cracks about every 12 ft in the pavement that have been patched but it is a rough road.... no doubt I had to slow down the first time I went on it but this time I took it at 55mph or so ...
so it's getting there....
it's weird ..I bought a 450cc bike because I wanted something smaller than a 650cc and lighter and closer to the ground... what I got was a 450cc bike 40hp
and capable of 80mph with no problem , but a bike that weighs more than a KLR 650 ! I didn't think the weight would be that big of a factor but boy was I so wrong... the Triumph is alot lighter out there as it's weight is low with the RX4 the COG is at my crotch ! instead of mid calf like the Triumph....
.... if I was 20 years younger there would be no problem in fact it would probably be riding on the bottomed out shock but at 68yrs old that hard stuff is not my cup of tea anymore !
..... so it's back to lowering the bike again this 32" seat height is not for me
.... I was actually joking about falling over at a stop sign ...till I did that today.... it's embarrassing and maddening to be thrown off your bike at a stop ! lol.....
i DID learn something today though,.... one the gas cap needs to be completely flush and don't use the front brake to hold the bike until you stop moving completely I was still moving at walking speed and when I hit the brake, the weight shifted to the right and just kept on going !
with a smaller lighter bike that maneuver wouldn't have been a problem but with this bike.... it was a problem ! my right foot was on the rear brake and by the time it got to the ground it was already too far to arrest the movement !.... stupid,stupid, stupid ! but I am learning what not to do on the bike !
.....
.... tonight my back and shoulders are killing me I'm sure I pulled several mussels ! getting that thing upright again....
....
I think alot of my problems is trying to get back to the place where I was 30 years ago in my riding,... being without a reliable bike for 5 years and not constantly riding one, definitely puts one on the down hill side again...
things that I used to do without even thinking about it, like stopping today
are different than they used to be !
....
and I'm wondering now if this is the bike for me or not... super heavy and too tall is a bad combination in my book no matter your age !
....
I do not think I could shave off 20lbs off that bike even if I went into it really hard to get every last ounce ! and 20lbs is a drop in the bucket with it ...it needs to loose 150 lbs not just 20lbs ! even if I removed everything on it down to the frame and engine and gas tank I bet I would only gain 50lbs and it would look like hell !
.... I had the muffler off last week and to my surprise it was not that heavy at all.... I was shocked ! every Honda I've ever owned had a boat anchor for a muffler !!!!
....
it's a good bike... I'm just not sure it's good for me !
....
I find myself whishing I still had my XR650L Honda that I finally got to fit me
but alas it melted in the Ranch fire along with my 5 other bikes !
but that was a Dirt bike you could ride on the street, I want a street bike you can ride on the dirt.... there is a difference ! ( LOL mostly in weight I guess!)
....
ahh well.... it'll all come out in the wash, as my father used to say !
I'm not giving up on it but 2 times of it falling over on me makes me really mad ! why would they make a frigging bike so tall ? I know they can make them lower but they don't do that !
... maybe I need to Ride the Triumph more ! HAHAHAHA !
....
later !
Bob....

That is very frustrating Bob. It sounds like that rx4 is just a tall, heavy bike. If I were you, I would stick to the Triumph and the Ninja!

I remember years ago when my Dad was retiring and riding a bit more, he and I were leaving his neighborhood when I realized I had lost him. He had gotten his foot caught on the right peg and rolled his bike onto the grass on his neighbor's front lawn. It can certainly happen to any of us, regardless of height. He's over 6' tall and was riding a gz250! To be honest, I suspect he was too tall for the bike, sort of like frog legs on a little bike, but either way, tip-overs happen.

I've had heavy bikes (like my old Shadow 1100, like yours), and tall heavy bikes like my bmw, or even my old Honda Hurricane. I'm so happy with my little 250 now it makes me wonder if I even need my SV. We find what fits.

Thanks Drew ! Yah **** happens , that is just the way it is .... I'm not having very good luck lately with anything as I think I just burned up the weed eater too.... silly thing had been not wanting to stay running and I re tuned the carb and got it running real good again.... but 5 minutes into the grass cutting it bogged down and died.... now no compression to amount to anything...
and I am sure I put chainsaw gas in it too.... time for a new one I guess
seems like everything I touch lately goes to pot ! LOL...
I think I'll try my hand at the lawn mower now and see if I can brake it too !
HAHAHAHHAHA !:rotflmao:

90 degrees here today I think summer finally got here !
.... and not a single blossom on the apple trees that last snow fall and freeze took them out so no apples this year ! the deer will not be happy about that !
....
Bob.....

There's an answer for all these problems you've been having...


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HONDA!!! :wave:

LOL yah more truth to that than you know I bet !
I have this machine here now and I'm determined to make it work for me !
.....
I'm stubborn.... and committed too ! HA !
.....
Bob.....

OK... an update on the spring thing.... it's still got the 400~450lb spring in it for now...
and I made a lowering link for the rear.... it took me about a week as I am on night shift again ( my sleeping hours are all screwed up) but I did finally get the lower link done and I am pleased with the results ! I went from a seat height of 32" stock down to 29.5" by making a new lower link.... the original lower link on the RX4 has a weird shape to it but I found I don't have to bend the dog bone part of it at all it can fit being straight !
sense I couldn't find 1/4" barstock anywhere I went with 1.25x1/8" barstock...3 layers
cut a center spreader out of a 1" piece of axle shaft drilled a bolt hole through it and then after bolting everything together to make sure the alignment was right I welded everything up..... several screw-ups along the way but the end results is what matters !
the first guesstimate of the hole spacing was way off , but after putting the bike at the wanted height and then measuring the separation needed I drilled 2 more holes and in that configuration everything finally fit ! my original holes were 6-3/8" apart then I moved in 3/4" and drilled another set of holes closer to the pivot and that worked out real good ! ... I can set on the bike now with both feet flat on the ground in my slippers !.... and my legs are slightly bent. it's almost exactly how I had it before but this time I have suspension TOO ! LOL....
it was getting cold out there so I called it a day can I'll finish putting it back together tomorrow and hopefully take her out for a ride!
.... I am hoping that now my suspension problems on this bike are finally fixed....
there won't be any more dropping the bike at stop signs because of the bike being too tall now , so I think it's good to go !
....
the rear tire has about 3"~4" of travel before it will hit the plastic inner fender well
and I expect that will get tore up over time, but that's the price I pay for a shorter bike and it is well worth it. I think my ground clearance has been reduced to about 6" or so but I haven't measured it yet as I don't have the crash plate on it yet !
.....all in all I lowered the bike 2.5" from stock by making my own lower link.
this lower link does NOT have bearings in it so I am considering buying a lowering link for the KTM 690 as it looks like it will fit ...it has bearings in it. ! ($70.00 on Ali Express)
I can probably ride that bike the rest of my life without wearing out the pivot point down there, so I am not real worried about it. LOL....
....
later !
Bob.....

I didn't have enough energy to take the bike out for a ride today but I did LOOK at it ! LOL
.... and I noticed something I didn't like... there are 2 screw places in the rear under fender for the bike, these protrude down a good 3/4" well at that picitular place it put them about 1/2" away from the tire... ! so I cranked down the pre load at least another 1/2" and I'll give it a try from there so it doesn't look like 29.5" seat height will work at all
we'll see what it does at 29" or what ever it is right now... it didn't seem to change much when setting on it and the bike is still too vertical when on the side stand normially, so I moved it back off the patio so I could get more lean on it.
....
I gott'a do town running tomorrow in the early afternoon but I should have time after that to take her for a short ride and see if that inner fender is going to Rub.....
....
Later !
Bob......

ok a quick update here.... I took it for a short ride and it was draging the rear tire on the plastic fender well on every little bump... by the time I got back it had wore a small hole in the plastic fender well.. but luckilly did not go into the air box. so I did stop in time.
so I pulled the shock again yesterday and replaced the spring with a 500lb spring I had purchased from race tech. I left the new lower link on there and just replaced the spring.....
once buttoned back up I measured the seat height again and it's right at 30"
which is almost 2" lower than stock. I have about 3" clearance between the rear tire and the inner fender well now.... and there is NO give what so ever when sitting on it.... I think I'm going to have to live with it like that !
it might well beat me to death on these bumpy roads but I can still flat foot it !
....
we got alot of rain last night and everything is soaked outside so a test ride will have to wait !
......
Bob......

Well, now I really screwed it up.... I was going to lower the front some more...
that would help in the headlight aiming and handling too... as I only had it down 1.25" from stock.( was going to take it for a late evening ride ,fired it up and turned on the light and the beam was hitting the house about 10ft off the ground !) and sense I lowered the rear 2" ( or more) I should have the front 2" lower as well... so In the dark I decided to lower the front but one of the Allen head bolts didn't want to come loose on the lower triple tree
and the Allen wrench didn't want to fit in there correctly ( I suppose that is where I sheared off the swivel ball off my Allen set sockets at)
anyway, I drove my long Allen wrench in as best I could and put a long wrench on it to try and brake it loose and it just ripped out the octagon in the bolt head
....and that may be near impossible to get out and replace ! AURGH !!!!
...no doubt I need to get the front lower again but I'll have to get that bolt out now.... this is not looking promising at all ! LOL
I think I zigged, when I should have zagged ! LOL
.....
I may have to disassemble the whole front fairing and dash just to get at it better ! and I am not looking forward to that !

Bob.....

well, I got lucky and fixed that without too much problem !
and got the front lowered the 2" I needed.
.....
I haven't aimed the headlight yet but I think it is still way too high.... we'll see.
....
Bob......

You monster! Snapping bolt heads!!

LOL WORSE I stripped it out like a madman ! the Allen wrench just spun in there ! ..... but I brute forced my way out of the delima I took a SAE socket type allen thingie and put it on an extension ( an old beat up one) and drove the thing into the bolt till it stopped.... it had a real good bite then so I put a lever on my ratchet and it popped loose !
i got real REAL lucky on that one i could see months of work just to get that bolt out but it came out easy !
I've never been a big fan of Allen head bolts because of that reason... usually in the past the Allen wrench would bend or twist or strip out but on this one the bolt itself stripped...... I bet you, I won't make that mistake again on that bike.... I'll be really sure the Allen wrench is bottomed out before I start turning it... HAHAHAHAHAH I have better Allen wrenches now than I had in the past and their not too bad..... but what caused this is the ball swivel end of one of the socket sets snapped off in the bolt.... it's like maybe I should start using those torque wrenches I bought a while back <GRIN>

.....
Bob.......

and from all indications the headlight is NOT adjustable ! you can't tilt it more or less it's like WTF were they thinking just changing tire sizes will make it where you need to adjust the headlight beam... but Nope... there is no provisions for tilting it at all.... I'ed have to take out the entire headlight and dash unit to modify the bracket and elongate the holes to get even a little movement.... high beam looks to be perfectly level not pointed down a touch.
and low beam looks to be about right.
through the years I've come to realize that if you put the high beam just right that the low beam is way too low..... I guess so you won't blind the oncoming car drivers.... that has always been a pet peve with me.... so I usually adjust up the low beam a tad and just run them. that way when there is no one on the highway you can run the high beams and see the deer a long way off....
.... on this bike I dunno what it is going to be like riding at night.....
I used to do a bunch of night riding years ago .... but traffic has tripled sense those days !

Anyway I THINK the work on the RX4 is done ! ....finely!


....
Bob.......

Yeah, separation between high & low beams vary greatly. With 7" round lights, Bosch and Hella have high-beams up in trees when low is set on road. Cibié much, much better.

I've had to use washers to shim headlight-mounting up & down for aiming before, can't remember which bike or car it was on..

Well, I just cured the problem on the RX4.... I took the bottom bolt out !
then bent the bracket down a bit so it would clear the plastic and walla ! it could them move up AND down .... before all it could do was move up a tiny amount... now I can have a 30 degree swing if I want it.... so I pointed it to where it looks right and anchored down the remaining 2 bolts.... so many other bikes I've owned only had 2 bolts on the headlight and the only time they moved is when the bike was dropped.... so I have no doubt the headlight will stay where I put it.....
.... when I was messing with it last night it never dawned on me to take the bolt out..... so I did that a bit ago.... but it still wouldn't pivot downward... I thought what the heck ! ...and that little bracket was the problem... got my big prybar/screwdriver and bent it down about 1/4" and that cured it !....
....

really is weird not to have any provisions in the thing to facilitate headlight aiming..... i mean that is a must.... but I guess it's close enough so get it out the door! .... but it's good to know you can take out the bottom center bolt , bend the bracket and then point the headlight anywhere ya want !
..... the headlight is hooked to the frame like the Ninja 250R is.... it don't turn with the forks which is a shame because I like that ability to point the headlight...... ....
I remember stopping and helping a guy change a front tire on his pickup on old schoolhouse road one time at about 10:30 pm and it was very dark out
he didn't have a flashlight so I parked my bike on the other side of the highway and pointed the headlight at his tire for him.... 2 minutes later he was done ...my bike didn't even have a chance to get hot setting there idling
..hahahaha !.... he was going to the store to get some cigarettes' and it was close to closing time so he had to hurry ! HAHAHAH
.....
it's my wife's birthday today so I think I will take her out to dinner !
.....
Later !
Bob......