View Full Version : Integrated Turn Signal - A little puzzled...


Richy_T
February 27th, 2010, 05:22 PM
Newb (to this forum) here. Hope I'm posting in the right place...

As part of a general streetfighter-type project on my wife's bike after a crash back in October, I decided to purchase an integrated turn signal kit for the rear. I chose this kit.

http://www.d2moto.com/94-07-Kawasaki-Ninja-EX250-Smoke-Rear-Turn-Signal-p/tsl001-smoke.htm

I got the new bulb sockets installed OK then when I went to try the old bulbs (prior to purchasing yellow ones). Well, I had trouble getting them in. Looking closer, I noticed the bayonet pins were offset. So I trundled off to the store. The only bulbs I can find with offset bayonet pins are the two-element, two-contact stop & tail bulbs. There is only one electrical contact in the bulb holder.

So what should I do? Just use stop & tail bulbs (they *are* available in yellow but they all sum to more Watts than is specified - 25W)? Or should I scream at the vendor?

The annoying thing is that I already have the holders mounted now (tip, you can carefully melt the rims at the back and bend them over if you don't want to mess with glue) so I'm more inclined to find what works rather than scream at the vendor.

Verus Cidere
February 28th, 2010, 12:04 AM
I had the same problem with the bulbs I got for some of my turn signals (except my problem was with my front signals). My advice would be, go around to several different auto parts places with the bulb you have, show it to them, and tell them what you need different. It took me a few tries in a few different places, but I ended up finding it. GL :thumbup:

Richy_T
February 28th, 2010, 10:35 AM
So looking into it a little more, it turns out this base is known as a BAY15S (Single contact, stepped pins). Very hard to find bulbs like this in the US. most searches turned up places overseas. There are some LED bulbs with this base available. I may see if I can order bulds from abroad but if I can find sockets that will let me use standard over-the-counter bulbs, I will.

So everyone, be warned.

Snake
February 28th, 2010, 10:41 AM
I wound up puting double contact sockets in my tail pods and opted to splice them into the brake lights so my rear end is more noticeable to the cagers at night.

Richy_T
February 28th, 2010, 12:17 PM
Not a bad idea. I'm currently considering just buying regular bulbs and filing off one of the pins. The sockets appear to be tight enough fits that I think I would get away with that.

I'll tell you what's annoying though, so many manufacturers aren't putting wattages on their bulbs. Fine if you know exactly the bulb you want but if you're looking for something for a non-standard application, it gets annoying.

Richy_T
February 28th, 2010, 03:04 PM
Grr. Just checked and the bullet connectors are the wrong size too. So much for the "easy install".

I know 2.5mm bullet connectors are tricky to find but you think they'd have gone to the effort for something that's specific for the job.

Oh and I looked at the stock turn signals and no way to use the sockets on those.

Snake
February 28th, 2010, 03:16 PM
sounds like you might have to make a trip to the auto parts store. I gor my sockets from Autozone and they carry the single contact and the double contact sockets. I would go with the double contact like in mine. That way you have all three lenses lit up with running lights and you can use the other contact for turn signals or brakes or both if you have an integrator box.

Richy_T
February 28th, 2010, 03:28 PM
Hmm. I was trolling autozone for parts Friday night and I don't remember anything like that at the local one but I was possibly just focused elsewhere. I was looking for a reason to get out anyway. If they have something like that, that would be the way to go I reckon.

Looks like I may end up cutting the wires off the stock signals. I really don't like doing that but I would hate to hack at the harness even more. Though it doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things.

Richy_T
February 28th, 2010, 05:40 PM
So the idea of actually having the dual bulbs appealed and I picked the sockets up at O'Reilly's. Now to undo my careful melting work and throw the old ones in the trash. Not sure which to make what. Presumably the lower wattage should be the running light and the higher the turn. Though that's probably too bright. Maybe I'll make the turn be the lower wattage and wire the higher to the brake.

Snake
February 28th, 2010, 11:10 PM
I think you neeed to wire it with the low wattage wire running the brake and the higher wattage running the turn otherwise you will not be able to see the turn signal blinking with the brakes on. Experiment first before doing your final splicing to see which way works best for you.

Richy_T
March 1st, 2010, 11:28 AM
I may go that way. Not sure yet. I'll take a look at what wattage the basic bulbs are and go from there.

One bonus of using higher wattage for the turns is that it might compensate a bit for the LED indicators up front that are causing a fast blink.

I've been thinking about maybe turning some connectors to avoid cutting the ones off the stock signals. If I made them out of brass, would there be issues with corrosion? Of course, I'd need to buy a lathe too which would be more than the cost of replacement stock signals but hey, an excuse to buy tools. :) I'm also thinking that it might be something that could be sold on ebay.

pinkard129
March 1st, 2010, 06:58 PM
you can try the asian cycles or thebulbman.com, i believe thats the name of the site. anyway you should be able get the right bulbs

pinkard129
March 1st, 2010, 07:28 PM
when i moved my blinkers to my pods (before i stripped it down), i used the factory sockets that i pulled from the old blinker stems. i dont kno if that kit you bought has differtant ones are not i cant remember lol its been a while since ive messed with the factory setup

Richy_T
March 1st, 2010, 08:51 PM
I've been through dozens of sites. I won't believe the bulbs are out there unless someone provides me with a direct link.

So now I have the double socket bulbs holders in. Of course, it's only after I have them in that I work out that there is no ground wire. It would have been easier to solder a wire on with them out but I guess I haveta work with what I have.

On a sidenote, does anyone know what the rear light housing is made from? My ABS rods aren't sticking to it. Oh well, may just have to finish off with JB Weld.

Note, the holders from the stock turn signals will categorically *NOT* work for this year of Ninja and if anyone suggests that again, I will have to hit them with something!!! The holders are mostly part of the plastic of the turn signal with only a couple of metal bits for the contacts. Not transplantable at all!

pinkard129
March 1st, 2010, 09:09 PM
what year is your ninja? i had no problems with mine. i just apoxied the socket to the housing

Richy_T
March 2nd, 2010, 10:04 AM
It is 2007. The indicators are wedge shaped. The bulk of the socket is part of the plastic molding with a metal plate at the front to provide the ground contact and a spring & contact at the back for +12V.

The double contacts are in anyway. I'll be soldering the ground wire on when I can dig my black auto wire out tonight.

I found that if you bend a piece of copper home electrical wire, it wedges in the indicator bullet connectors quite well. I may use that until I can find something better. I wonder if it would be possible to mold something out of solder?

The housing is PP by the way. Green stick.

Richy_T
March 9th, 2010, 07:44 AM
Well, everything is getting there. For the bullet connectors, I took some brass screws, filed them down in a drill and then drill-pressed a recess in them to do the soldering. Work kind-of OK. Wish I had a lathe to work with but oh well...

I bought the relay from customleds.com to control the lights. A straight plug-and-play fix and the lights were behaving themselves like a champ. Totally recommended for $20 and I wouldn't even bother with the resistors/balancers IMO.

Now I just have to buy some more screws for the other 4 connectors and work out what to do with the gauges (I'm thinking the bike would look better with a single gauge but not really sure how I would do that). The speedo also reads real high so I'm wondering how that will play into things.

Snake
March 9th, 2010, 11:33 AM
Sounds like your mod is goiung along very well. As soon as you are done with the mod it would be great if you can include pics. Thanks.

Richy_T
March 9th, 2010, 12:42 PM
Will do. It will need a good clean first as it is still somewhat dirty from the crash and has gathered some dust too. I'm thinking it will look pretty sharp. I'm thinking I'll just fab a bracket to put the old gauges back on for now but I have a plan to do some stuff with GPS if I get my electronics setup together (Why rely on mechanicals?).

CZroe
July 9th, 2012, 11:34 PM
Well, I also ordered the kit from D2moto and I also did all the same research tediously coming up with BAY15S. In my research, however, I found that the 2006/2007 models had different bulbs from the 1988-2005 models, though the Ninja250.org page on the subject didn't give any other details. I have yet to go look at the OEM stalks on my '90s model blinkers to see if they are BAY15S but we already know that they aren't on your 2007 model. If they aren't on the earlier ones, then I can't imagine why Volar Motorsports (the manufacturer/redistributor) chose this socket. I planned to switch to dual-filament bulbs for the relay mod anyway but I wanted to hold off a little while on that.

CZroe
July 10th, 2012, 09:57 AM
OK, I ordered eight double contact pigtails (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330760395112?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619) to convert the sockets to BAY15D for 1157 dual-filament bulbs. Why? So I can use jschatte's "Integrated turn signals with a twist" (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100150) mod (uses relays so that pods work as turn signals, running lights, and extended brake lights but kills the brake function in the pods when flashing).

I need four of them (two per bike; preparing a second kit to sell), which means that I have four extra for anyone who is looking for them.

I got into all this purely because I actually found two Clear Alternatives smoke lenses for a reasonable price, but only if I ordered both (damn shipping!). Prices are usually much higher because they are no longer in production and out-of-stock everywhere. The only reason they were a reasonable price is because the seller mistakenly listed them as "blue." :D I decided to order matching Volar Motorsports smoke pod lenses from D2Moto because it was cheap. One of the two tail lights assemblies I have already had someone's DIY sockets and bulbs, which didn't fit the newer Volar BAY15S sockets. Because I planned on upgrading to 1157 bulbs and matching sockets for jschatte's mod, it wasn't a big deal, except that the person buying my second set would encounter the same problem. Also, I really wanted to use those fitted rubber boots with the current sockets. That's when I realized that I could just get the pigtails and convert them for both myself and the person buying my second kit. Now the second set will be set up for a mod few people have ever done, so I might as well go ahead and make that a plug 'n' play setup with relays.

Because I bought extras of everything, I will be selling the following kit
Brand new Clear Alternatives smoke brake light / taillight lens with red 1157 bulb
Brand new Volar Motorsports smoke integrated turn signal lens kit with BAY15S sockets, extra screws, and rubber boots
Brand new set of double-contact pigtails
Pre-wired relays and amber 1157 bulbs.

However I solve the "red tag light" issue*, I'll try to do that twice as well (I have heard of people getting tickets for that).

*Clear Alternatives red bulb will not shine white light on the tag through the lens' lower window.

I'll also be selling a whole second tail light assembly, original lenses, etc.

FrugalNinja250
July 10th, 2012, 10:59 AM
Some info on bulb bases:

On bulb bases referred to as BA15S the BA stands for BAyonet (cylinder with pegs) and the 15 stands for 15mm diameter. The S stands for Single contact (pegs opposite each other at same height) and D stands for Dual contact (pegs different heights from each other). The bulbs used in pre-06 models have the same base and use the same socket as the bulbs in the '06-07. The later model bulb is an R10W, the difference is that the glass bulb portion is smaller to fit in the smaller signal housings. The R10W is also a lower-wattage bulb, being 10 Watts. The 1156 bulb is 23 Watts, that's what's listed for pre-'06 bikes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet_mount

CZroe
July 10th, 2012, 11:12 AM
Some info on bulb bases:

On bulb bases referred to as BA15S the BA stands for BAyonet (cylinder with pegs) and the 15 stands for 15mm. The S stands for Single contact (pegs opposite each other at same height) and D stands for Dual filament (pegs different heights from each other). The bulbs used in pre-06 models have the same base and use the same socket as the bulbs in the '06-07. The later model bulb is an R10W, the difference is that the glass bulb portion is smaller to fit in the smaller signal housings. The R10W is also a lower-wattage bulb, being 10 Watts. The 1156 bulb is 27 Watts, that's what's listed for pre-'06 bikes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet_mount

Yep, except that the pegs aren't always at the same height in an "S" socket, as we are finding out here (BAY15S). :(

andrewmichael10X
July 10th, 2012, 11:19 AM
i c everybody up here having problems finding bulbs for the intergraded tail light kit i have a 03 ninja i want to do this mod but dont wanna run into this problem anybody have any advice???

CZroe
July 10th, 2012, 11:41 AM
i c everybody up here having problems finding bulbs for the intergraded tail light kit i have a 03 ninja i want to do this mod but dont wanna run into this problem anybody have any advice???

Basically: Buy the kit for the lenses, not the sockets. Get your own sockets at any auto-parts store just like you would if you were fine with the OEM red lenses and never bought a kit. Alternatively, you could grind a peg off the bulb so that it will fit the sockets included in the kit.

That's if you only want the pods to work as turn signals. If you want dual-filaments so that they will light as running lights and flash as turn signals, either buy those types of sockets or fix the ones in the kit with the proper dual / double-contact pigtail. I ordered eight of these pigtails from eBay that I think will work and will have four extra for anyone who needs them. You'll need some 1157 bulbs too (preferably amber). Those are pretty easy to get.

andrewmichael10X
July 10th, 2012, 01:29 PM
ok i just took the lense off the left and right pods and figured out there is already to holes for a socket inside them so ima take the stock turn signal sockets and relocate them to there they fit in perfect ima gorilla glue them into place and obviously use stock bulbs inside the lense
and u wont be able to c the glue cuz it will be inside may not be perfect but for free and works lol

conrya5
July 10th, 2012, 02:01 PM
I have recently had this problem with my Ninja as well..

Take a pair of wire cutters and clip off one of the nubs on the light bulb, it should fit in.. if not clip both nubs off.

It doesn't completely clip the nub off, just enough of the chrome coating to allow it to lock in.


Also, I have 1157 sockets and bulbs (ordered the wrong sockets) but still function only as turn signals (as i wanted)

http://i45.tinypic.com/t0jk38.jpg

CZroe
July 10th, 2012, 06:14 PM
ok i just took the lense off the left and right pods and figured out there is already to holes for a socket inside them so ima take the stock turn signal sockets and relocate them to there they fit in perfect ima gorilla glue them into place and obviously use stock bulbs inside the lense
and u wont be able to c the glue cuz it will be inside may not be perfect but for free and works lolShould work great as long as your signals have removable sockets. The smaller ones from the 2006/2007 bikes aren't removable.

FrugalNinja250
July 10th, 2012, 07:11 PM
Yep, except that the pegs aren't always at the same height in an "S" socket, as we are finding out here (BAY15S). :(

There's no such thing as a BAY15S, only the BA15S and BA15D. No "Y". On the BA15S the pegs are always at the same height, otherwise it's not compliant with the IEC 7004-11 A and DIN 49720 specifications. This isn't some voluntary set of specification that manufacturers can choose to comply with or not. Manufacturers who fail to comply with these specifications will find that nobody will buy what they have to sell, bulbs, sockets, whatever. If you have some sockets that were sold to you as BA15S and they have uneven peg heights, then you were simply sold the wrong item or told the wrong thing. Multimillion dollar contracts hinge on compliance with these specifications, they are taken quite seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Electrotechnical_Commission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN

CZroe
July 10th, 2012, 09:35 PM
There's no such thing as a BAY15S, only the BA15S and BA15D. No "Y". On the BA15S the pegs are always at the same height, otherwise it's not compliant with the IEC 7004-11 A and DIN 49720 specifications. This isn't some voluntary set of specification that manufacturers can choose to comply with or not. Manufacturers who fail to comply with these specifications will find that nobody will buy what they have to sell, bulbs, sockets, whatever. If you have some sockets that were sold to you as BA15S and they have uneven peg heights, then you were simply sold the wrong item or told the wrong thing. Multimillion dollar contracts hinge on compliance with these specifications, they are taken quite seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Electrotechnical_Commission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN
Now you see the problem we are having.

http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/socket-db-bay15s1.html

There is no reason to fix the alignment of a single-filament bulb except for ensuring that the beam is cast according to spec (as in a headlight), but there never was a spec for that with these types of bulbs and it makes no sense for this application where you install the socket in any orientation you want. Using this rare and pointless configuration did nothing but ensure that users could not find fitting bulbs.

The sockets included with the Volar Motorsports integrated tail light kit from D2Moto have pegs on opposite sides but at differing heights, exactly like an 1157 bulb's socket, BAY15d. Yes: with the "y." Search results for BA15d show them at the same height but BAY15d shows them at different heights exactly like an 1157 bulb. It appears that 1157 bulbs use BAY15d. BA15d would allow it to be oriented in two different ways so that the brighter and dimmer filaments could reverse roles according to insertion orientation.

BAY15s appears to be BAY15d with the wrong pigtail base (the one from a BA15s). The socket even has the slot for a double-contact pigtail so that it does not spring out or spin but the included base doesn't use it (comes out and spins freely).

FrugalNinja250
July 12th, 2012, 06:15 AM
Man, that sucks. Volar likely bought these sockets on the cheap because they're so oddball the seller couldn't get rid of them otherwise. I'd be looking to get a refund from Volar, or some kind of reimbursement for your costs (including time) incurred making this product usable.

choneofakind
July 12th, 2012, 06:26 AM
CZroe, if you can do this integration with a twist, but with clear lenses and switchback led bulbs that do red for the brake lights, but then cut the red and do amber on/off for the turn signals, you'll have my attention to learn more in the interest of buying. I wish customLED would do that for us because their products are insanely bright and pnp, with a flasher included.
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CZroe
July 14th, 2012, 05:42 AM
Man, that sucks. Volar likely bought these sockets on the cheap because they're so oddball the seller couldn't get rid of them otherwise. I'd be looking to get a refund from Volar, or some kind of reimbursement for your costs (including time) incurred making this product usable.The cost is very minimal and I really did buy the kit for the lenses alone. I'm sure they expected them to sell for more and that the low price reflects that (the sockets are just vestigial). These were actually very cheap even just for the lenses ($6.99).

Anyway, I did get the pigtails and they do fit the sockets so that I can run 1157 bulbs. Every 1157 bulb has been tight at first but eventually everything fits. Also, the seller sent me 10 of the pigtails when the auction was for 8.

CZroe, if you can do this integration with a twist, but with clear lenses and switchback led bulbs that do red for the brake lights, but then cut the red and do amber on/off for the turn signals, you'll have my attention to learn more in the interest of buying. I wish customLED would do that for us because their products are insanely bright and pnp, with a flasher included.
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It's not something I intend to make multiples of. Just mine plus one to use the extras I bought. :) I have a lot more extra pigtails if anyone buying the D2Moto lenses needs them, but they'd have to be interested in doing the same thing the guy in this thread did or jschatte's "twist." I'm just mentioning it now because I don't want to delay this info just so that the same bump points to my marketplace thread. I think the same people interested in the Volar product/info/thread might be interested in what I have to sell. I'll let you know when I get it all together in case you're interested. :thumbup:

papawhellie
October 9th, 2012, 08:29 PM
The 250 I just bought is missing all the rear lenses. I would be interested in some pigtails. What else do I need to order from d2moto while getting the 6.99 kit. I also have an extra tailight assembly if any one is interested. I am right down the road in meriwether county.
The cost is very minimal and I really did buy the kit for the lenses alone. I'm sure they expected them to sell for more and that the low price reflects that (the sockets are just vestigial). These were actually very cheap even just for the lenses ($6.99).

Anyway, I did get the pigtails and they do fit the sockets so that I can run 1157 bulbs. Every 1157 bulb has been tight at first but eventually everything fits. Also, the seller sent me 10 of the pigtails when the auction was for 8.


It's not something I intend to make multiples of. Just mine plus one to use the extras I bought. :) I have a lot more extra pigtails if anyone buying the D2Moto lenses needs them, but they'd have to be interested in doing the same thing the guy in this thread did or jschatte's "twist." I'm just mentioning it now because I don't want to delay this info just so that the same bump points to my marketplace thread. I think the same people interested in the Volar product/info/thread might be interested in what I have to sell. I'll let you know when I get it all together in case you're interested. :thumbup:

CZroe
October 9th, 2012, 08:38 PM
The 250 I just bought is missing all the rear lenses. I would be interested in some pigtails. What else do I need to order from d2moto while getting the 6.99 kit. I also have an extra tailight assembly if any one is interested. I am right down the road in meriwether county.

I could have used that assembly not too long ago. :) I don't go south very often, but if you are going to be coming near anytime soon I'd be glad to meet up and you are welcome to come get the pigtails. I have a perfectly usable brake lens with a crack in it, so you can have that too if you want.

Edit: Oh, and D2Moto may not have much else you need, but they do have cheap brake pads, oil filters, sprockets, chains, etc. Not sure about the quality of their other stuff, but I've been using their colored Volar chains (they assure me it's a quality Japanese OEM) and their brakes should be fine for the rear. Last time I checked, they didn't have the new Clymer manual that covers the EX250F (1988-2007) and EX250J (2008-2012) but they do carry Clymer manuals and it is finally available for purchase, so you may want to add it to your order.