View Full Version : Bet you saw this crash coming..


ninja250
March 18th, 2010, 05:19 AM
OK I'm posting this even though I'll probably take some heat so bare with me. I have to deal with this on my end already so I don't need more drama.

Yes, I learned from my mistakes.

Some things I learned:
When you already had a close call earlier, it's time to stop.
When it's been 10 years since you romped your hometown roads, you need to relearn them. Not just a once or twice over... 50-100 times.
Need to be extra careful where you play around.
You won't listen until you learn the hard way.
You need to be absolutely sure to set yourself up right for each and every corner.. This is easy to skip because the room for error is marginal.
Yes the stock tires work, but they will bite back eventually.
Don't slam on your front while dragging on crap tires. It will start chirping.
and most of all DON'T PANIC!

Now for what I feel was the cause of this crash...
1) relearning the old roads with too much force. (not enough practice in this location)
2) Set up way too early on the corner.
3) bad line
4) didn't break enough for the corner
5) I panicked and stood it up after the front brake failed to work (front tire started chirping and skipping but didn't cause tank slapper)
6) Should have kept it leaned in, no brakes and rode it out just fine (see cause 5)
7)Irresponsibility and thoughtlessness of others.

Now for the video. How stupid right?! Ah well live and learn. At least the bike still works.
cwmiBbRO_YU

And pics.
I have everything coming to fix the crash besides a new frame.
That one will set me back $1000. Crash total cost $2200 to get me back to straight metal and paint.
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7915.jpg

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7916.jpg

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7918.jpg

replaced those with rearsets
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7919.jpg

Bent bars. Replacement clipons coming.
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7920.jpg

I think this is the spot where I kissed the rail
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7921.jpg

Even my iphone got some cool scars
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7924.jpg

more shogun slider bends
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7926.jpg

forks tweeked (already fixed that yesterday)
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7931.jpg

Yummy bent frame
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7932.jpg

tweeked head tube. lol
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/DSCN7933.jpg

So pretty much have all the parts besides the new frame and some plastics.
I straightened everything out yesterday and rode it around on the freeway just fine with the bent frame. I can still ride it while I repair it. This gives me a good reason to upgrade a bunch more crap on it along the way.

Maybe I'll do a DIY frame swap. lol

Thanks for looking at my crash, even though nobody was there to see it at the time. Seriously I learned my lesson. I knew it was coming too so can't say I didn't. If you ride any type of two wheel vehicle for long enough, you will fall off of it. It's just a matter of when. Some will do it faster than others too. :crazyloco:

How do I feel?
Fine now. Few bruises and a scraped up hip. Day after the crash I felt like I got my ass kicked by 5 dudes kicking me in the fetal position with steel toe boots though. :D It was all bruises and muscle tears. See this thread (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39097) in the gear section for damage to my gear.

Always wear your gear and do your best to ride responsibly.
I will be fixing my bike and riding again in no time.
Takes more than that to keep me off two wheels.

bdavison
March 18th, 2010, 05:39 AM
Any crash you can get up and ride away from was a good crash...

Those frame sliders really didnt do squat did they.

ninja250
March 18th, 2010, 05:40 AM
Eh, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.
I think the guard rail had some say in that too. :p

JeffM
March 18th, 2010, 06:06 AM
Ouch! glad your ok.

< on soapbox > Watched the video earlier this morning. Thought about it and the thing that keeps coming up in my memory is not the actual crash, but the one you could have had when you crossed the centerline at 00:56 in the video. Public roads are not racetracks. < off soapbox >

Momaru
March 18th, 2010, 06:35 AM
Oh man, that sucks monkey balls, right after you replaced the sliders...
Very glad to hear you're okay KC, even if it did cost a bit o' skin and a lot of soreness.
Sounds like you're on top o' the repairs, I'm sure you'll have her back in fine shape in no time. Surprised it's still rideable with tweaked forks, head tube and frame though. At least you'll have no shortage of things to do on the bike while you heal.
RE: the gear, isn't that the vent switch that you just fixed that took the brunt for your boots? Looks like Dainese and Shoei stood up to their good rep too.

Apex
March 18th, 2010, 06:52 AM
Glad you made it out ok!

karlosdajackal
March 18th, 2010, 07:00 AM
Now for what I feel was the cause of this crash...
1) relearning the old roads with too much force. (not enough practice in this location)
2) Set up way too early on the corner.
3) bad line
4) didn't break enough for the corner
5) I panicked and stood it up after the front brake failed to work (front tire started chirping and skipping but didn't cause tank slapper)
6) Should have kept it leaned in, no brakes and rode it out just fine (see cause 5)
7)Irresponsibility and thoughtlessness of others.


Dude glad your reasonably ok :thumbup:. I only watched from the start up to the crash, and watched the crash about 3 times. You can't tell a lot from that camera angle. But I'd forget reasons 1,2,3 and 4 straight away, reason 7 I don't know what your talking about. I'm interested not in reason 5 or 6 but how you got yourself in that situation where you panicked, and I don't think any of your reason have it covered.

Anyway what i notice earlier in the vid is that you changed gear in turn which I'm occasionally guilty of too, but we know its not a great idea, but nothing to do with the crash, although seems like you pulled the clutch for the crash which costs you stability also. (14 seconds, 48 seconds for the upshifts mid turn).

I did notice you chopping the throttle off and decelerating into turns which is lethal, especially at 40 seconds in your negative throttle all the way around that turn, ok its due to the car but you should not have been that close to him in the first place, hes in shot from 34 should have hung back until a straight piece of road. Then you blast past him where you don't really have enough room and enter the next turn again on negative throttle with lots of lean.

When you go in off the gas and overload the front wheel you end up leaning more than necessary to compensate, that's why when you get on the gas the bike appears to turn in more as the balance of throttle puts the weight where the bike expects it to be.

Luckily you get on the gas soon enough but then you do another mid lean gear change. Next turn at 55 seconds again off the gas all they way, and I'd say at that point it was close to going wrong, by this point in the first viewing of the vid I'm starting to predict you running wide into something. For the kink right at 1:12 again off the throttle all the way through it. Then for the crash you chop the throttle on, then off, then on, it like you pull the clutch+brakes then crash.

You got away with it on the faster turns as you could theoretically go round those at 100mph but because they are sandwiched between other turns your going much slower than you could so overloading the front of the bike does not have such a big impact as you are still within 50% of the max the bike can take. On the slower turns the margins are much smaller. So my viewing of why you got to the panic situation (never mind what you did when it all went wrong, why it all went wrong is more important)

1) Poor throttle control - either off or off/on/off in turns causing more lean angle to be necessary to turn the bike, should roll in a single smooth action.
2) Slow turning of the bike - because of reason 1 the bike is start to lean but not much is happening regarding turning and your leaning more and more to compensate. If you get on the gas a little the bit instead of leaning more the bike will turn. But instead your staying off gas, leaning more and more but still going relatively straight. Look at the clip around 45 seconds and watch the bike react when you get on the gas, it turns more than you expected and you end up picking it up and up-shifting.
3) Poor planning - you should be reading the road and hazards ahead and planning for them rather than reacting to them. The incident with the car where you saw him ahead but ran right up his tail then overtook him in a totally inappropriate place causing you to charge to fast into the next bend tells this story. By the way if a car was coming the other way round that bend :eek:
4) Yes at the time of the crash you reacted poorly and this is really hard to fix, but if your doing 1,2 and 3 all the time you have no hope in hell of reacting properly when the dung hits the rotating blower thing :)

I have made all the same mistakes myself many times and got away with it. After 2400 miles and reading a twist of the wrist 2 front to back about 10 times I can see that. In fact I caught my mistake on video and I also show how i correct them (day after getting that book ;) )

G_kwp-YUDs0
You can see first run it really goes bad when i chop the throttle
2nd is a bit better, but I still have not read the book, on this run though the bike turns in when i give it gas, case in point!
The i show some other turns and other mistakes I'm making the same as you, off gas in turns, not great planning ahead or reading of the road.
3rd run, same as 2nd only i've read the first 4 pages of twist 2, now faster and with more gas and less lean and higher speeds :cool: You can see at the first part I chopped the throttle for a second and quickly realized if I don't think its going to make it i need to do the opposite and get on the gas and sure enough the throttle turns the bike. I done this turn at double the speed last night instead of hitting 60 at the bottom I was at 85 and had to brake hard to get down to the speed limit of the main road :O

Like I say, glad your OK and hope you get back on a bike when your good and ready. I'm hoping some of what I written here is useful to you and makes sense. I commend you for uploading the vid also, I think a lot of folks would say nothing and fix it quietly. Could just as easily of been me a few months ago, hopefully now I'm working on me it will stay shiny side up.

P.s. I'm enjoying the bike way more since reading this book too, even if you think you'll never crash its worth getting. I don't like the way its written the cover or the formatting, but the info is pure gold.

addy126
March 18th, 2010, 07:04 AM
"7)Irresponsibility and thoughtlessness of others." how did this make it into the list... there was no one around you.....:confused: just 2 hot into an extended turn..... and u just ran out of room.

OMG and did you leave the scene of an accident???? and its on tape? Did you bump your head man!

Anyway glad to see you are okay and getting the bike back together, sucks that it was a 2010 model..... my heart goes out to you....

CC Cowboy
March 18th, 2010, 07:23 AM
I only watched up to the crash. I didn't read your entire posts so I hope I not telling you something you already know but here is my two cents.

I believe you had the camera attached to your helmet. I noticed a large weed or bush growing in the guard rail. That's all I saw through the entire crash. You used it as a target and nailed it.


With all the people on this site crashing and spending tons of money on repairs, you would think that an investment into California Superbike School (since you're in socal), or any other school (for those that live elsewhere) would be a cheap investment, and coulds save your bike, and might save your life.

Crashing sux, leave it to the professionals.

ninja250
March 18th, 2010, 09:18 AM
RE: the gear, isn't that the vent switch that you just fixed that took the brunt for your boots? Looks like Dainese and Shoei stood up to their good rep too.
Yeah just fixed that vent.

Dude glad your reasonably ok :thumbup:. I only watched from the start up to the crash, and watched the crash about 3 times. You can't tell a lot from that camera angle. But I'd forget reasons 1,2,3 and 4 straight away, reason 7 I don't know what your talking about. I'm interested not in reason 5 or 6 but how you got yourself in that situation where you panicked, and I don't think any of your reason have it covered.

Anyway what i notice earlier in the vid is that you changed gear in turn which I'm occasionally guilty of too, but we know its not a great idea, but nothing to do with the crash, although seems like you pulled the clutch for the crash which costs you stability also. (14 seconds, 48 seconds for the upshifts mid turn).

I did notice you chopping the throttle off and decelerating into turns which is lethal, especially at 40 seconds in your negative throttle all the way around that turn, ok its due to the car but you should not have been that close to him in the first place, hes in shot from 34 should have hung back until a straight piece of road. Then you blast past him where you don't really have enough room and enter the next turn again on negative throttle with lots of lean.

When you go in off the gas and overload the front wheel you end up leaning more than necessary to compensate, that's why when you get on the gas the bike appears to turn in more as the balance of throttle puts the weight where the bike expects it to be.

Luckily you get on the gas soon enough but then you do another mid lean gear change. Next turn at 55 seconds again off the gas all they way, and I'd say at that point it was close to going wrong, by this point in the first viewing of the vid I'm starting to predict you running wide into something. For the kink right at 1:12 again off the throttle all the way through it. Then for the crash you chop the throttle on, then off, then on, it like you pull the clutch+brakes then crash.

You got away with it on the faster turns as you could theoretically go round those at 100mph but because they are sandwiched between other turns your going much slower than you could so overloading the front of the bike does not have such a big impact as you are still within 50% of the max the bike can take. On the slower turns the margins are much smaller. So my viewing of why you got to the panic situation (never mind what you did when it all went wrong, why it all went wrong is more important)

1) Poor throttle control - either off or off/on/off in turns causing more lean angle to be necessary to turn the bike, should roll in a single smooth action.
2) Slow turning of the bike - because of reason 1 the bike is start to lean but not much is happening regarding turning and your leaning more and more to compensate. If you get on the gas a little the bit instead of leaning more the bike will turn. But instead your staying off gas, leaning more and more but still going relatively straight. Look at the clip around 45 seconds and watch the bike react when you get on the gas, it turns more than you expected and you end up picking it up and up-shifting.
3) Poor planning - you should be reading the road and hazards ahead and planning for them rather than reacting to them. The incident with the car where you saw him ahead but ran right up his tail then overtook him in a totally inappropriate place causing you to charge to fast into the next bend tells this story. By the way if a car was coming the other way round that bend :eek:
4) Yes at the time of the crash you reacted poorly and this is really hard to fix, but if your doing 1,2 and 3 all the time you have no hope in hell of reacting properly when the dung hits the rotating blower thing :)

I have made all the same mistakes myself many times and got away with it. After 2400 miles and reading a twist of the wrist 2 front to back about 10 times I can see that. In fact I caught my mistake on video and I also show how i correct them (day after getting that book ;) )

G_kwp-YUDs0
You can see first run it really goes bad when i chop the throttle
2nd is a bit better, but I still have not read the book, on this run though the bike turns in when i give it gas, case in point!
The i show some other turns and other mistakes I'm making the same as you, off gas in turns, not great planning ahead or reading of the road.
3rd run, same as 2nd only i've read the first 4 pages of twist 2, now faster and with more gas and less lean and higher speeds :cool: You can see at the first part I chopped the throttle for a second and quickly realized if I don't think its going to make it i need to do the opposite and get on the gas and sure enough the throttle turns the bike. I done this turn at double the speed last night instead of hitting 60 at the bottom I was at 85 and had to brake hard to get down to the speed limit of the main road :O

Like I say, glad your OK and hope you get back on a bike when your good and ready. I'm hoping some of what I written here is useful to you and makes sense. I commend you for uploading the vid also, I think a lot of folks would say nothing and fix it quietly. Could just as easily of been me a few months ago, hopefully now I'm working on me it will stay shiny side up.

P.s. I'm enjoying the bike way more since reading this book too, even if you think you'll never crash its worth getting. I don't like the way its written the cover or the formatting, but the info is pure gold.

There is a lot of things I can agree and a lot I can disagree with you on here.
I have over 20,000 miles on sportbikes up to 600cc and am able to somewhat analyze a situation. I've taken GSXR's to San Francisco from LA many of the twisty roads in between, then from SF to Sacramento and back to LA in one weekend.

I think you are reading a lot into this re shifting up and down in corners. You can see I was not bucked while shifting. I do realize how dangerous this can be if you aren't completely smooth about it. Traction is easy to lose while shifting and cornering.

You are correct, the video dampens the situation. You will notice I had the ability to go way wide at the beginning of the turn, rather I stuck to the inside and had my knee down much too early. It was a major early apex situation. If I would have set up wider and apexed later I would have had the corner.

Also, if I would have approached it with less speed I could have taken the same line without incident, although not likely on me knee.

I didn't have any incident while chopping the throttle off and on in the corners. Again unrelated to the accident I believe.

The video fails to show exactly the chirping I speak of. When you relate to the loading of the front wheel above I believe you may be more along the lines of correct here, although hard to comprehend everything that happened as it happened so fast.

Traction was definitely also a factor. I did not stand the bike up and point it at the rail until the front tire lost traction. This was the chirping I stated I felt. Once I stood the bike up again, I applied the brakes and turned in just a slight bit more to point away from the rail for the hit. At this point, I applied the fronts and got more chirping, then into the dirt and into the rail. The video barely shows the jumping from the "chirps" of traction loss as this camera combo seems to dampen vibrations completely.

Poor planning and I forget what the other thing they said was looking ahead or reacting ahead or something like that. Hazard planning or something. I heard it somewhere else before. Also could have done me some good to get more practice on this road first.

Thanks for the comment about uploading the video. I'm not proud of this at all. I even knew it was coming and still did it.. so yeah.. I'm an idiot for this one. :(

I will read through your advice several times more I'm sure and see what I can compare. I prefer first hand experience over books but it's clear I still have much to learn so won't shoot the idea down at all.

"7)Irresponsibility and thoughtlessness of others." how did this make it into the list... there was no one around you.....:confused: just 2 hot into an extended turn..... and u just ran out of room.

OMG and did you leave the scene of an accident???? and its on tape? Did you bump your head man!

Anyway glad to see you are okay and getting the bike back together, sucks that it was a 2010 model..... my heart goes out to you....

When you don't think of how your motorcycle crash might effect other people in your life you are being thoughtless of others. When you still owe half your motorcycle in payments, you are being irresponsible by horsing around on it.

I left the scene of a bike drop without injury or incident. I'll be fixing the damage myself. Complete restore. It's as if I tipped it over at a stop sign. I'll notify everyone when I swap the frame.

I only watched up to the crash. I didn't read your entire posts so I hope I not telling you something you already know but here is my two cents.

I believe you had the camera attached to your helmet. I noticed a large weed or bush growing in the guard rail. That's all I saw through the entire crash. You used it as a target and nailed it.


With all the people on this site crashing and spending tons of money on repairs, you would think that an investment into California Superbike School (since you're in socal), or any other school (for those that live elsewhere) would be a cheap investment, and coulds save your bike, and might save your life.

Crashing sux, leave it to the professionals.

Camera was attached to the bike via RAM mount.

It all happened so quick I didn't have time to focus on anything but my brake lever and "Oh Sh*T! Here it comes!"

I was in contact with Richard about new racer school less than 7 days prior to this.

At least I didn't cry like that cop who crashed his bike. lol

Roostre
March 18th, 2010, 09:27 AM
Good on 'ya for manning up and letting others learn from this!:thumbup:


I believe number 7) confused me also!

Maybe you mean that "you are being thoughtless TO others."

The post made it sound like you were blaming the cars or something...:confused:

Anyways, glad you survived it, learned from it and passed your knowledge on!

I never heard of Twist of the Wrist 2, but now it will get ordered tonight!

Only $14- http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Basics-High-Performance-Motorcycle/dp/0965045021

Flashmonkey
March 18th, 2010, 09:29 AM
Hey glad you're ok! It's hard to see much of anything in that video...especially with the sound off...but it definitely seems that you just pushed a little harder than you were ready for. It happens and it's a good thing that you're still walking around talking about it after the fact. :thumbup:

But ya I'll put a +1 up for the racer school idea. Pushing hard like that on the street requires good technique, but it also requires consistency. Too many things can go wrong too fast, and a lot of your "inputs" have to almost be second nature.

This may not have been the first time you've dragged knee on the streets, but each time you do it you're taking a huge risk because of all of the external (ie: out of your control) elements involved with riding on a public road. This is compounded if your riding is "rusty" or varies with fatigue/mood/etc as well.

Good luck with the repairs!

edbro
March 18th, 2010, 09:58 AM
I don't know, it wasn't the greatest line to take around that corner, but it seemed like you would've pulled through if you kept it leaned over. Hard to tell really, anyways, glad that your okay!

Alex
March 18th, 2010, 09:59 AM
Glad you're OK. What does the electronic lean angle sensor read when the bike's on its side? :)

backinthesaddleagain
March 18th, 2010, 10:04 AM
Glad you're OK. What does the electronic lean angle sensor read when the bike's on its side? :)

I am thinking it says "pick me up."

kevlarorc
March 18th, 2010, 10:15 AM
but hey, at least you got it on camera! :)

Betlog
March 18th, 2010, 10:35 AM
Dang KC, that sucks but you're responding to the situation in a very adult and professional manner :thumbup:

I am sure you will only grow as a motorcyclist after this. Good luck with the fix bro. A DIY frame swap sounds good.

cnichols79us
March 18th, 2010, 10:48 AM
Good on 'ya for manning up and letting others learn from this!:thumbup:


Really glad your not seriously hurt. Admire you for analyzing it and SHARING it for others to learn from. Thanks and Ride Safe!:thumbup:

Cedilla
March 18th, 2010, 11:24 AM
The sound the bike made when it hit the guard rail was brutal. At least the guard rail stopped you before you went off what looks like a steep drop off. Also I liked how seconds after the crash you're picking the bike back up and riding away.:thumbup:

ninja250
March 18th, 2010, 11:40 AM
Yeah too bad I don't have the external camera view.
Wish I could see myself slide. I did a break dance spin on my back and left shoulder.
Here's video from going up the same road earlier that day.
PHYZfpdj_fQ

That road is weak too. Just wasn't used to it is all and forgot the brake before you turn rule. Shouldn't have been riding it like that. Wait till you see my video from the canyon on the other side of that hill. I'll get that one uploaded later. The other video I have yet to upload is the one where I had the previous close call I was talking about.

jcgirl
March 18th, 2010, 12:08 PM
KC, I'm really glad your ok. Bikes can always be fixed. Sometimes we all gotta learn lessons the hard way. Hope this can help us all be better riders. Thanks for posting the vid.

ninja250
March 18th, 2010, 01:40 PM
Same thing every time I crashed any bike throughout my entire life. Dirt bikes and dirt jumping or flatland bicycles alike. A little bit of rash and a bunch of bruises.

My original thought was:
"OK, coming in a little hot, tap the brake and you'll be fine."
Like I've done many times before.
This time for some reason the tire started chirping (repeatedly losing traction) and I freaked out and stood the bike up instead of keeping it leaned in.
My next thought was:
"Guard rail... 12 O'clock. Better try and turn and brake one last time to prevent total disaster"
At this time I did so and the bike chirped more and then glanced off the rail, then the bike and I spun out like a couple ballerinas on speed.
Just after hitting the ground I thought:
"Well, I've felt worse than that but I'm still sliding. Is this the part where it's about to hurt really bad when I dead stop?"
So I closed my eyes, balled up into the fetal position while doing a spin on my shoulder/back/backpack and came to a stop neatly wedged between the ground and the guard rail with minimal impact. (back protector/backpack hit first)
Then I thought:
"Lights back on. All bodily systems check. Did anybody see? Get up and pick up the bike. Damn will it roll? Now what do I do? Get on it and pop the clutch and get the F outta here!"

I think that's pretty much it.
I stopped at two turn-offs down the road straightening things out and checking my sanity while discovering my bloody hip. Never let out a single word or yelp or bead of sweat or anything.

Could have been a heck of a lot worse.

backinthesaddleagain
March 18th, 2010, 01:44 PM
Glad it wasnt worse. Imagine hitting the rail head on and getting launched. Some years back here a new rider on a literbike. Was going through a highway ramp in the city, hit the rail head on and got launched to the road below. Unfortunately he didn't get to tell his story.

pedaltothemetal
March 18th, 2010, 02:25 PM
Casey,
Glad you are OK!
Really hurts to see your bike like that, but knowing you that will be remedied
very soon!
Main thing you are OK!
Thanks God!

binlagin
March 18th, 2010, 03:07 PM
Jesus!!!! Dude!! I'm glad you walked away from that one! I defiantly put myself inside your helmet while I was watching this and man... like everyone else... I'M GLAD YOUR OK!!

This defiantly has soberer'd me up and I will wait until my track day on may 11th to really try and apply what i learned over the winter.

Timm3h
March 18th, 2010, 04:39 PM
Glad you are okay.

I still replay my accident over and over in my head and get chills sometimes.

As long as you learned from your mistakes, that's important.

I know it is hard, and I probably don't have to preach it to you, but as everyone is saying take it to the track. What if that was a minivan full of children instead of a guardrail or someone on a bicycle? I know we are all guilty of pushing our bikes here and there but it seems like you do it all the time. Take it easy.

ninja250
March 18th, 2010, 05:25 PM
Glad you are okay.

I still replay my accident over and over in my head and get chills sometimes.

As long as you learned from your mistakes, that's important.

I know it is hard, and I probably don't have to preach it to you, but as everyone is saying take it to the track. What if that was a minivan full of children instead of a guardrail or someone on a bicycle? I know we are all guilty of pushing our bikes here and there but it seems like you do it all the time. Take it easy.

I don't push it nearly as much as it would seem.
The only time you see me ride is when I push it because otherwise the videos would be boring. Lol
I agree, not the best place to play around. Although I couldn't even afford an exhaust for $300 let alone a day on the track, I was trying to get out there anyways and gearing up.
Now I'm spending track money on repairs. I'll get there eventually. Just a little set back.
Posted via Mobile Device

mikedabike64
March 18th, 2010, 05:29 PM
it almost looked like a double apex

miks
March 18th, 2010, 06:21 PM
Glad you're alright, and hopefully the repair of the bike comes along nicely and smoothly.

Zombiphone
March 18th, 2010, 07:40 PM
Eesh, that's brutal. But everything's better when you get it on tape :thumbup: Well, provided you survive to watch the playback. It doesn't really make crashing suck any less, but at least you can analyze it later and get some outsiders' perspective, so you can come out even just a little wiser.

Really sucks to see your bike like that, but at least you were both in good enough shape to ride home. The possibility of crashing and being totally stranded in the middle of nowhere has always been one of the scariest things about riding alone in obscure canyons to me, so at least it worked out in that regard. Take it easy and give yourself some time to heal up before you worry too much about your bike.

rockNroll
March 18th, 2010, 07:41 PM
Just my 3 cents...

Pure panic, looks like you could easily take that corner faster than what you were going. Work on your lines... think about the corner before you're in it.

Glad you're above ground... it could have easily been worse.

ninja250
March 19th, 2010, 07:03 AM
Morning after the crash I was already ankle deep in removed fairings and crash pieces making sure the bike is still rideable. Then I rode it 200 miles that same day with my bruises.
Seriously it would take a lot more than that to keep me away from fixing the bike the second I pick it up off the ground. I was working on it before the swelling even kicked in. It's perfectly rideable right now, just waiting on the bars and rearsets so it's not so goofy feeling. Of course the bent frame is odd too but I have to learn to like it until I get the good one in.

It's still rideable right now and I'll be riding it later today and all weekend. This is one tough little bike. I was back on the horse in a matter of seconds.
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ninja250
March 19th, 2010, 07:36 AM
Ps
panic was definitely part of the equation, but not until I lost traction. The video does not show the front tire Chirping.
There is black tar throught Asphalt on this corner, I visited it yesterday. I'm willing to belt it helped cause this accident.
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adri99an
March 19th, 2010, 08:10 PM
KC--we need to talk.....not now because my wife is yelling at me but I will post soon...glad ur okaayyyyyyy.......did the shadow sneak up on you...I know when I go from sunlight to shadow---its hard to adjust.....

There have been many a times when I'm up at GMR alone and some days the bike doesn't do what you want it to do and you have a close call....that's when I know I just need to ride my ride.....close calls tell me the Grim Reeper is tapping me on the shoulder....

sixer
March 19th, 2010, 10:15 PM
EGADS! nin glad you made it out alive... riding is no joke... good luck with yer bike man...

DarkNinja52
March 20th, 2010, 02:11 AM
glad to hear youre okay, ill post up a pic of my bike when i find my camera.. it'll make you feel better.. itll prob make me cry, but youll def feel better

Tigress
March 20th, 2010, 04:37 AM
I'm definitely glad you can post on here and tell us your story so it will help others. I saw your gear, and it did its job. Sounds like your bike will be fixed in no time at all. Take care.

petiteninja
March 20th, 2010, 09:35 PM
sorry to hear about your crash, i hope your road rash is healing well. neosporin is your friend.

just wondering...did you upgrade your front brake cable to a stainless steel line, ie. galfer or speigler?

ninja250
March 20th, 2010, 09:46 PM
Yes,
I upgraded the lines and pads with Hel lines and EBC HH pads.

What I failed to upgrade was the fork internals and tires to match.

I was able to replicate what happened today during my 250mile ride on the bike. It was fork dive from me applying the brakes while dragging that caused the stock tire traction loss/tire chirping and ultimately me to panic and stand the bike up straight. I've never seen a fork dive like that on any of my bikes so I was not ready for it and panic at that speed was natural. I did not target fixate on a bush.. The bike chose it's own course once I panicked.

My panic went away quickly as I tried to turn it from the rail one last time but it was already too late. The road surface did not help any either.

It's extremely easy to dive the fork into traction loss on this bike. I did it today multiple times but let off the brake again immediately to regain traction. Only, I was not full tilt on my knee in a corner with guard rails on it this time.

The videos make the whole thing seem a bit slower than it was for some reason. You can't be doing 25 mph on your knee on a huge sweeper like that. I must have entered that corner at 40mph or so. Maybe faster. Not 100% sure.

almost40
March 20th, 2010, 10:15 PM
I watched the vid and what struck me as interesting was that I could see your head in the mirror even during tight cornering. By the look of your shadow, I would have to add Improper body position to your list of mistakes.

Take a few Trackdays and LEARN.

I souldnt have been able to see your helmet in the mirror if you were in the correct body position. You had half your butt off the seat which is fine, but you head remained over the top of the bike which is a NO-NO

ninja250
March 20th, 2010, 10:17 PM
You can't tell anything from watching my mirror..
..and I'm 6'6" tall. My body doesn't lean much more than that.

almost40
March 20th, 2010, 10:37 PM
If your head and shoulders were moving from side to side as you corner I wouldnt have been able to see them in the mirror is all im saying.
I dont care that you crashed. Im glad you have enough brains to wear the proper gear and you OK. The bike can be fixed.
I suggested a trackday or three because professional instruction will help you reach the cornering limits that you desire.
We have all crashed, Hell, theres some great pictures of my crash on the track posted here on this site.
Most people dont realize that getting just your butt off the seat does NOTHING to help you thru the corner. You have to get your upper body weight to the proper side to help you stand up the bike a bit and use a larger tire contact patch thru the corner.

ninja250
March 20th, 2010, 10:50 PM
Dude I know how to pin my leg between the bike and the groud and come out fine.
Read the thread before you chew on me. I was extremely close to track practice time. Just a little anxious and it got me.
I lean my whole body off the side of the bike like I'm standing on the side.
I push the whole bike out to the side like a matador waving a flag at a bull.
Every joint in my body is sore after minutes of dragging because of the extreme positions I extend myself to. You can't see any of that in my mirror.

Over braking into a fok diving loss of traction, bad line and panic is my story and I'm sticking to it. My body position didn't have much to do with it, like my shifting and throttle chopping.
I don't care that you crashe either but I came in there and gave you thumbs up On the video instead of talking down about your style that I can't even really see.
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petiteninja
March 20th, 2010, 11:34 PM
i want to do the ss brake line upgrade and i'll be getting new tires, i'm glad to hear that you've discovered the weak link...

almost40
March 21st, 2010, 12:24 AM
Take it personal if you please, but that wasnt my intent. I was just pointing out what I took out of your vid.
A trackday or three with some personal instruction might open your eyes a bit. THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE, not just you.
I see the same thing that I think you did, at every track day. Most of the time people get away with it.
My best friend does the same thing that I think you do when you corner. It took him all last summer to relearn the correct body position. Its not that big of a deal. IT HAPPENS TO ALOT OF RIDERS. In his case, it stems from riding dirt bikes most of his life where being on top of the bike helps, not hurts.

The guys who LEARN to go fast keeps an open mind and attends a trackday to learn.

Thats the beauty of profesional Instruction, its an objective look from someone who KNOWS how to ride.
Listen, Learn.
You are correct that not being smooth contributed to your crash its the #1 factor in most crashes. God knows it cost me a time or two. I was merely pointing out another possible factor that had not yet been mentioned.

NONE of the above was intended to offend the original poster its for everyone reading this thread. Please dont take it personal. Its food for thought when you do attend a trackday. Might want to ask your instructor to take a look and get his thoughts.

TrueFaith
March 21st, 2010, 10:54 PM
Thanks for sharing...although it did bring up some bad memories, especially the soundtrack of fairing on gravel. :rolleyes:
I was also going to suggest that the transition of light to shadow in the turn didn't help.
What I can't get over is the asshat in the car braking when you came up behind him so quick like that. Maybe you were going over the speed limit and passing in a no-pass zone, but that guy didn't need to "help" you get by him by stomping on his brakes either. A little more gusto using his brakes and you might never have made it to that turn in the first place. :(

Cedilla
March 22nd, 2010, 12:47 AM
^One thing that bugs me is when your on a 4 lane highway behind someone doing 10 or 15 below the limit talking on the cell phone and weaving and whatnot. When you go to switch lanes to pass them they just happen to notice you in their rear view, and instead on holding a steady coarse like you should when being overtaken, they try to move out of your way as your switching lanes to pass them, so now every time I approach a vehicle, I pause for a moment to see what they are going to do before I overtake them.:rolleyes:

rockNroll
March 22nd, 2010, 10:05 AM
You can't tell anything from watching my mirror..
..and I'm 6'6" tall. My body doesn't lean much more than that.

Yes it does... almost40 is correct. Like it or not.

ninja250
March 23rd, 2010, 09:48 AM
Ok I realize your just trying to start crap now so here goes.
But yes I agree with him too. I need track time. I was on my way there. I know you don't read either too so thought I'd point it out for ya, along with the part where I already stated I obviously have more to learn before you both told me again.
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pedaltothemetal
March 23rd, 2010, 02:13 PM
Casey we need to get some rearsets and clipon so we can look like Rossi!
In my actions shots I look like a commuter!
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh52/glockopen9/03-20-10%20Malibu%20Ride%20With%20ARC/042.jpg

Samer
March 23rd, 2010, 02:45 PM
Ok I realize your just trying to start crap now so here goes.
But yes I agree with him too. I need track time. I was on my way there. I know you don't read either too so thought I'd point it out for ya, along with the part where I already stated I obviously have more to learn before you both told me again.
Posted via Mobile Device

I didn't expect I'd defend "Almost40" due to our obvious political differences :D, however I doubt that he or anyone else on this forum is trying to 'start crap'. One of the biggest problems with the internet is that it is hard to convey tones. Hence all the smiley faces :eek:

Anyway, they are giving you advice, if you don't agree, that's fine. If you already know it, that's fine too. Nobody is trying to insult your intelligence. This is one of the most civilized forums I've been on. And that's one of the main reasons I keep coming back.

As far as putting your head past the mirror. This video has helped me tremendously. If you've seen it, that's fine. If you haven't, it may be useful. I certainly found it to be useful for me. Cheers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCg3BMGe52M

TmP
March 23rd, 2010, 03:21 PM
I think the root cause of crashes like this is as simple as it is unpleasant.
You're not as good as you think you are. Your line was down right horrible and you did 100% the opposite of what you should have done...

Not trying to bash you.
Trust me, been there, done that. :)

Dano
March 23rd, 2010, 07:48 PM
Glad you are ok..and you got a freaking HUGE set of balls to post that video on here to get trashed and berated. Dumped my SV on a bend due to going into the turn too hot and couldnt avoid the gravel..if I was going slower I would easily avoided it. One lesson I learned was to dial it down on public roads unless I was 100% certain the road is clear and I was very familiar with the road..Good luck fixing the bike and take it easy next time.

adri99an
March 23rd, 2010, 08:21 PM
KC- when you put a video of any crash in any forum be ready to take some heat and crap from everyone who thinks they know what they're talking about.....I'm sure you've learned your lesson and understand everything you did right and wrong.....crashes happen...they are going to happen sooner or later....I'm waiting for my time....you ride A LOT and you have more of a chance to crash......people all over the country watch your video...put their two cents in and you have to live with it......I've read every post in this thread and although we cannot hear tone...we know it when it's there and it's there buddy. Take it with a grain of salt....put your boots on...strap up and move along....don't wast your time jabbering....

I've ridden with you a few times...and I can say your a good rider....I've been behind you in the twisties and I know you understand line and form.....like I said before...there are some days when things just don't go right......be safe and ride safe buddy

ninja250
March 24th, 2010, 06:27 AM
Thanks for backing me up man.
I know I have more to learn. I said so already.
I know I should be on a track too, and am/have been trying to get there.
Yes, I am crazy for posting this but knew I'd take heat so did it anyway.
Learn from me. I'm a pretty smart person but I messed up like this anyways. Everyone else can too if you don't take me as an example, so I made an example of myself on purpose.

Either way, my riding style isn't much different than anyone in this thread full of pictures with their head near where the mirror would be.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40062
Like I said, can't see that in my mirror though.

CC Cowboy
March 24th, 2010, 07:11 AM
Crashing must be fun, everyone is either doing it or looking forward to doing it.

TrueFaith
March 24th, 2010, 07:28 AM
Crashing must be fun, everyone is either doing it or looking forward to doing it.

:p Yeah, you'd really think crashing was a good idea after reading some of the comments. "Rite of passage" sure sounds better than "simple mistake" don't it?

ChuckFever
March 24th, 2010, 09:38 AM
The impact bent the frame? That thing is permanently FUBAR'd even if you do replace the frame.

I wouldn't put $2200 back into that POS. Sell whats left for salvage and take that and your $2200 and go buy a new $3900 cycle...

backinthesaddleagain
March 24th, 2010, 09:50 AM
All these crash stories having me riding tense, and looking at riding schools. Early saturday I stabbed a foot down in a 90 degree corner after the rear tire got sideways on the yellow stripe. Road was debris free, but probably only 30 something degrees.

ninja250
March 24th, 2010, 10:31 AM
A) Entered too early
B) Braked too hard while on knee
C) Traction loss.. fork dive.. skipping? Unfamiliar.. Period.
D) Panic, stand bike up straight toward rail, regain composure in just enough time for one last turn away from the rail
E) Point of impact.
F) Point of stop. (See parts recovery photo)

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/whathappenedimage.jpg (http://s872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/?action=view&current=whathappenedimage.jpg)

From the scene
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/oops.jpg (http://s872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/ninja250Rse/?action=view&current=oops.jpg)

Just like clockwork.
I deserved it.

TmP
March 24th, 2010, 11:05 AM
Your little graph is pretty spot on.
Nice way of showing why late apexing saves lives on the street... :)

TmP
March 24th, 2010, 11:12 AM
Your little graph is pretty spot on.
Nice way of showing why late apexing saves lives on the street... :)

Rule of thumb for street riding:
Get all your braking done before the corner, swing out wide (because it will allow you to see further in the corner), turn and aim for an apex just before you straighten out.

Just my 2 cents.

LOL
I ment to press edit not quote...

almost40
March 24th, 2010, 11:16 AM
Good vid to watch Samer. Notice the difference in the before and after in head position and bike lean angle.
The instruction is almost to a T the kind of instruction I received at my first few trackdays.
Now my next statement is NOT a slam against you ninja, just a suggestion.

Open your mind to the possibility that you arent doing things correctly when you goto your trackday. From what Ive read so far, it SEEMS to me, that you think you arent making any mistakes in your body position. The vid you posted, clearly, (to me anyway) shows your head is not in the correct position.
Learn dude, it will make those twisty roads alot more fun.
It will also make you a better rider than you already are.

Momaru
March 24th, 2010, 11:18 AM
Good souvenir KC. Thanks again for sharing your experience and giving us a step-by-step.

maglin
March 24th, 2010, 11:34 AM
Glad you are OK my friend!

Your accident look similar with this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBTGgT_V5F8

Bad target fixation due to panic which make you brake while hard cornering.

About the frame, you can always calibrate it instead of buying a new one.

JeffM
March 24th, 2010, 12:14 PM
250, nice diagram of you shunt. Well done.

You hanging that part on your wall?

ninja250
March 24th, 2010, 12:29 PM
About scrapping the bike..

The total to fix it will be $3000. Without 3 plastic panels to make it pretty again. That's with me doing all the work.

You cannot sell a bike you are still paying off under our contract.

The price to buy a brand new 2010 Ninja 250R SE from the California dealership I bought mine from was over 5,000 after taxes and all that. So it makes sense to repair it IMO. Thank our economy for the rising price of a brand new 2010 ninja 250.

I will be using it for a track bike later when I pay this off and buy my GSXR.

I know I have a lot to learn. I'm open minded to that fact. I wrote it before anyone told me.

but it's clear I still have much to learn
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showpost.php?p=148459&postcount=10
10th post in this thread.

I realize you need to twist your body down forward and around the tank when you lean. The way I was taught, was to kiss you mirror. The guy in that video shown going through the roundabouts isn't actually lower than his mirror in my opinion. You'd see his face on my rig in the mirror too is what I am trying to relay to you guys. I tried to learn as much about getting your knee down as I could before I actually did it. I'm not just going out there for the first time blind and slapping it down at all costs. It took me tons of practice to get here and I worked up to it. I just made a few bad choices and a couple riding mistakes I have yet to come across.

adri99an
March 25th, 2010, 06:43 AM
KC- your crash is getting lots of good posts from other riders around the country. Its good to see others sharing info on body position...apexing and thoughts of their mishaps. I'd love to see pics of good body position in a turn.
In the end...u r ok and we are all learning.
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backinthesaddleagain
March 25th, 2010, 06:50 AM
About scrapping the bike..

The total to fix it will be $3000. Without 3 plastic panels to make it pretty again. That's with me doing all the work.

You cannot sell a bike you are still paying off under our contract.

The price to buy a brand new 2010 Ninja 250R SE from the California dealership I bought mine from was over 5,000 after taxes and all that. So it makes sense to repair it IMO. Thank our economy for the rising price of a brand new 2010 ninja 250.

I will be using it for a track bike later when I pay this off and buy my GSXR.

I know I have a lot to learn. I'm open minded to that fact. I wrote it before anyone told me.


http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showpost.php?p=148459&postcount=10
10th post in this thread.

I realize you need to twist your body down forward and around the tank when you lean. The way I was taught, was to kiss you mirror. The guy in that video shown going through the roundabouts isn't actually lower than his mirror in my opinion. You'd see his face on my rig in the mirror too is what I am trying to relay to you guys. I tried to learn as much about getting your knee down as I could before I actually did it. I'm not just going out there for the first time blind and slapping it down at all costs. It took me tons of practice to get here and I worked up to it. I just made a few bad choices and a couple riding mistakes I have yet to come across.

KC - what kind of contract (loan?), doesnt allow you to sell? so long as you pay off the lienholder why would they care? Do you have insurance? I would think such a strict contract would call for insurance??

TrueFaith
March 25th, 2010, 06:57 AM
I applaud the OP for posting about his crash. Threads like these are an invaluable learning tool for both the person who crashed and anyone who reads them. I did the same thing when I crashed my first Ninja 250R a couple of years ago and gleened a lot of very useful info from the responses.
More people should do this, but unfortunately many riders don't want to admit they aren't perfect riders. I got the same sort of smarmy answers you always find in these threads, but the useful info far outweighed the negative comments.
You can expect a little heat anytime you post a crashing thread, but to have more experienced riders critique your riding style and the choices that led up to the crash is well worth it.

backinthesaddleagain
March 25th, 2010, 07:01 AM
Rule of thumb for street riding:
Get all your braking done before the corner, swing out wide (because it will allow you to see further in the corner), turn and aim for an apex just before you straighten out.

Just my 2 cents.

LOL
I ment to press edit not quote...

Tom, good points. I want to add one to them - sometimes slower is better. Remember it is the street and any number of factors can present themselves. I have been on some roads with no other traffic, perfect conditions, then whoa look at that deer, or coolant, or cow crap (backroads between farms). Regardless of lines, best line, worst line, body position, at lower speed any number of lines are possible.

CC Cowboy
March 25th, 2010, 07:42 AM
KC, next time you crash ( I'd rather you don't again) have a camera on the bike behind you and we can see what you did wrong much better.

After looking at the video a few more times (don't take this wrong, that it as constructive BS) it doesn't look like you are down on a knee (which I don't recommend for the street) and it appears you could have been much lower on the bike. Looking at your shaddow and also your mirror ( I know you say we cant tell anything by the mirror and you're 6'6") it seems there was room to get lower and more important stay hanging off longer. You sat up straight once you freaked and focused on the bush in the guardrail.

You are corrected about A and D in your explanation. I'm not too sure about B and C though.

Good thing google had the location along with your line highlighted.

TmP
March 25th, 2010, 05:37 PM
I think that people get carried away with the whole knee dragging thing.
Dragging at any cost just because it's cool can screw you pretty good.
It will make correcting your line harder and it seems some people don't get a good feeling for the actual ground clearance their bike has. I agree with cowboy that there probably was a lot of room left.

I had a similar crash once. I came around a 180 degree uphill hairpin pretty hot and right in the middle was a 1 ft wide path of dirt and gravel the rain had washed on the road the day before. I saw the obvious problem and instead of looking at the corner exit I focused too much on hurdle in my way. Guess what: had my weight in the wrong spot, didn't allow the bike to just "glide" over the issue and laid it down hard.
**** happens :D

backinthesaddleagain
March 25th, 2010, 08:59 PM
I once dragged both knees at once. Man those pocket bikes were fun.

Locksmiff
March 26th, 2010, 12:45 AM
I am assuming the bike wasn't insured.

ninja250
March 26th, 2010, 06:27 AM
The bike was/is insured.
They'll find out when I swap the frame.
I guess there's nothing to be said for fixing your own mistakes anymore.
Lots of opinions on what happened but not much anyone can really go on with my camera angles etc.
Pretty sure what I felt happen in real life was pretty close to what happened. Lol there was no time to target fixate on anything.
The rest if it has nothing to do with the crash.
I did also say I probably could have pulled it off if I just rode it out too without hitting the brake. Sh*t happens.
I will however maintain that my body position isn't as far off as you guys think. Maybe for that few seconds in the video, but yeah everything else in the video was all off too. Definitely wasn't the cause of the crash.
Posted via Mobile Device

ninja250
March 26th, 2010, 07:18 AM
I was wrong when I sai my body won't lean any more than that, but that is not exactly what I meant. I meant that being this tall it's hard to get my head lower than that.

Yes, I could have leaned further most likely.

There was traction loss due to braking for sure.

Also I surely was on my knee when it happen which goes to show further that the camera is hard to go by. I have nothig to lie about. I see now that being on your knee isn't all that. Trust me the fun of it has been stripped right away now. Haha
Posted via Mobile Device

jcgirl
March 26th, 2010, 09:32 AM
:boink:

Sometimes the feces hits the ocilating device. I really appriciate you posting this. I'm sure that a lot of us have learned soemthing from your video or the following discussion. I hope your bike feels better soon. Wanna come to Canada and fix mine after? ;)

CC Cowboy
March 26th, 2010, 11:24 AM
The bike was/is insured.
They'll find out when I swap the frame.
I guess there's nothing to be said for fixing your own mistakes anymore.
Lots of opinions on what happened but not much anyone can really go on with my camera angles etc.
Pretty sure what I felt happen in real life was pretty close to what happened. Lol there was no time to target fixate on anything.
The rest if it has nothing to do with the crash.
I did also say I probably could have pulled it off if I just rode it out too without hitting the brake. Sh*t happens.
I will however maintain that my body position isn't as far off as you guys think. Maybe for that few seconds in the video, but yeah everything else in the video was all off too. Definitely wasn't the cause of the crash.
Posted via Mobile Device

Don't get discouraged. Everyone is trying to help, not condemn. The real problem was going to fast on a corner you didn't know.

ninja250
March 26th, 2010, 11:43 AM
Oh wait I figured out what you guys were trying to tell me.

Because I wasn't tucked in shoulder first while leaning, you think I don't know how to position my body. LOL!
(Even though that has absolutely nothing to do with this crash)

I wasn't racing 10 other people with a need for aerodynamics! Just getting my knee down on a local road! I love it how I'm wrong when nobody even realizes I'm not in a race.. just out having fun!

I learned by watching someone who does go to the track how to position my body, but didn't realize is was mandatory unless I was actually in a race.. so you're all right. My body wasn't in race positioning in that video. Probably because I wasn't racing!

rockNroll
March 26th, 2010, 12:44 PM
My body wasn't in race positioning in that video. Probably because I wasn't racing!

Racing against someone else has nothing to do with it. When taking a particular corner at a given speed I will use the same body positioning whether I'm alone, running in a pack, or racing. Proper form is proper form and neither the bike nor the corner you're negotiating give a rat's ass whether you're racing someone else or not.

Your line was bad, your body positioning was bad, and when things started to get a bit scary for you, your actions were wrong. Be a big boy and deal with it... or if you'd rather, just let everyone know ahead of time that you really don't want/need advise.

CC Cowboy
March 26th, 2010, 12:46 PM
Oh wait I figured out what you guys were trying to tell me.

Because I wasn't tucked in shoulder first while leaning, you think I don't know how to position my body. LOL!
(Even though that has absolutely nothing to do with this crash)

I wasn't racing 10 other people with a need for aerodynamics! Just getting my knee down on a local road! I love it how I'm wrong when nobody even realizes I'm not in a race.. just out having fun!

I learned by watching someone who does go to the track how to position my body, but didn't realize is was mandatory unless I was actually in a race.. so you're all right. My body wasn't in race positioning in that video. Probably because I wasn't racing!

When riding on the street everyone is racing. It's you against death. You can go as fast or as slow as you want. If you screw up you can die. Death doesn't care how your body was positioned. If you go to fast or to slow you can crash and the results can be life threatening.

Know the roads you are riding, but safe and have fun.

P.S. no crashing

Locksmiff
March 27th, 2010, 03:25 PM
Seeing as you said you have insurance on the bike, why are you bothering trying to repair it yourself and not letting the insurance either write it off or repair it.

ninja250
March 28th, 2010, 02:42 AM
I don't ride bikes that a mechanic "fixes".
I do all my own work. I doubt my insurance will pay me to fix it.

Locksmiff
March 28th, 2010, 05:26 AM
I don't ride bikes that a mechanic "fixes".
I do all my own work. I doubt my insurance will pay me to fix it.They would most likely write it off. It would also be a hell of alot cheaper wouldn't it only having to pay for the excess (deductable) whatever it's called in the US rather then paying out of your pocket the full costs of the repairs.

Momaru
March 28th, 2010, 06:38 AM
They would most likely write it off. It would also be a hell of alot cheaper wouldn't it only having to pay for the excess (deductable) whatever it's called in the US rather then paying out of your pocket the full costs of the repairs.

Upfront, certainly cheaper to pay the deductible than completely out of pocket. Long-term, perhaps not.
The insurance company would likely step up his rates considerably and recover the money they "gave" him in a couple years, after which I doubt his payments would decrease much in the forseeable future, costing him more money in the long run. If I'm wrong, so be it.

ninja250
March 28th, 2010, 07:34 AM
Yeah just gonna suck it up and bolt it back
together. It's like I crashed one of my huge nitro rc helicopters. Cost a couple
thou to get it running again but it was my fault and would be a bigger loss to scrap it all.

Just received a big box of parts toward the repairs last night at 9pm which was rather odd.
I'm basically short a frame and plastics and new tires. Already ordered the rest. Spen $1600 so far need to spend about double that.

Just as if I crashed on the track.. Or crashed a remote control helicopter, Now I gotta fix it. I'll get the crash repair thread started shortly. The reason it costs so much is I will be upgrading half the bike while I repair it. Forks and rearsets and clips ons and tires etc. Also have a new front rim coming so might pull my wheels off and powdercoat them white. I can also have the new frame powdercoated before installation... Bike should be nicer than before the crash when I'm done with it.
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Dano
March 28th, 2010, 08:17 AM
So just a question on what you are calling the frame as I haven't got my 09' picked up from the dealership. Is it the subframe? or is the 250 one entire frame? If you replace your frame won't that essentially mean you have to reregister it as the vin number is located on the frame?? almost all newer bikes have a removeable subframe that the seats are connected to. Like I said I bought a new 09' just haven't picked it up yet and looked closely at it.

ninja250
March 28th, 2010, 01:20 PM
It's all one frame. There is also two little engine mount triangle subframe pieces. The rearsets bolt right on the frame and so do the passenger peg mounts that stick way out and bend when you drop it. Anyone who worries they might drop their bike and has frame sliders on should probably try to remove those passenger pegs and mounts too cause they can bend the frame easy.

Yes, it will be a new VIN so will have to notify DMV and Insurance any way I look at it. I believe the VIN tag is riveted to the frame. We'll find out how that goes I guess.

Dano
March 28th, 2010, 05:59 PM
It's all one frame. There is also two little engine mount triangle subframe pieces. The rearsets bolt right on the frame and so do the passenger peg mounts that stick way out and bend when you drop it. Anyone who worries they might drop their bike and has frame sliders on should probably try to remove those passenger pegs and mounts too cause they can bend the frame easy.

Yes, it will be a new VIN so will have to notify DMV and Insurance any way I look at it. I believe the VIN tag is riveted to the frame. We'll find out how that goes I guess.

**** that sucks hard. The last ninja 250 I had was a 88' and I would have thought they would have changed that, I guess to build to a price they kept the full frame..so is there no straightening the frame?? theres a company that straightens out bikes I believe they are called computrack, I just looked them up and they seem to straighten out bikes to make them ride better, maybe drop them an email to see if they fix bent frames, worth a shot. Now on a aluminum framed bike I wouldnt waste the time but since the ninjette is a steel tube frame it should be possible, sorta like bicycles.

Cedilla
March 28th, 2010, 08:38 PM
They would most likely write it off. It would also be a hell of alot cheaper wouldn't it only having to pay for the excess (deductable) whatever it's called in the US rather then paying out of your pocket the full costs of the repairs.

If you "use" your insurance policy like your supposed to, they will get all their money back and then some. I wish I could drop collusion coverage on my bike, but its not paid off yet.

I hate insurance companies with a passion. They are the scum of the earth. :censored:

paterick4o8
April 11th, 2010, 10:42 AM
ouch. just saw this today

it's been said but I also agree, more than anything it's body positioning and also weight distribution that would have kept you making that turn.. assuming you wanted to keep corning at that same speed and putting any bike set up preferences aside. but yes you live and learn.

glad yous ok tho KC

ninja250
April 11th, 2010, 12:02 PM
I didn't crash earlier that day taking tighter corners at higher speeds.

It was a line thing, amongst lots of other things. But not my body position.

You don't have to be tucked to drag a knee successfully. Saying you do would be wrong.
You can't even tell for sure if I'm tucked or positioned right or not in those videos. You guys are talking out your asses. Do you have iPhones mounted on your (stock height) handlebars at that angle to study video of with mirrors on your race bike?

I look at my videos from earlier that day and see I had my shoulders in to the lean just fine. My positioning looked great 5 minutes before I crashed. But I don't feel like posting more videos to drag this out because anybody can disagree with anything I say all day long. I don't really care to hear about it. You all think I don't want to learn when you have no idea who I am or what was taking place at that time in my life.

I was the one there, and I know how my camera is mounted and how all the angles go down.. and if asking a racer how to get started in track school is not wanting to learn, I don't know what wanting to learn is.

No, I wasn't riding perfect track body positioning for that one particular corner that I'll be judged on forever, but IMO you don't have to, in order to get your knee down without crashing. I never said I was an expert nor did I say I think I'm hot sh*t to anybody. You all put those words in my mouth for me.

ninja250
April 11th, 2010, 12:59 PM
Pics below of my head while centered and not leaning.
Pics below also of my head while looking into furthest part of turn and leaning.
My head is definitely not centered over the bike.
You can not tell where my shoulders are or the rest of my body.
My body will never go below my mirror with the way I had that rig set up.
I don't sit on top of the bike. Not my head, not my ass, and not my shoulders.

Trying to figure out what the hell you guys were talking about almost caused a crash though and really put me through more question about my riding than I should have been.

CC Cowboy
April 11th, 2010, 01:06 PM
KC, I hope you have learned not to hit the NOS button while in a turn. If you would stop posting on this thread it will die off.

ninja250
April 11th, 2010, 01:14 PM
I understand that completely. I've been playing around in forums for years.
I just fail to see the part where everything I'm doing is basically wrong besides the fact I was playing around on the street and caught a bad line in return karma for it.

I realize I'm no pro and have a lot to learn but I'm not a (total) idiot.

adri99an
April 11th, 2010, 01:29 PM
Just REMEMBER KC...when you CRASH/Lay it down...this is what happens....

1. Everyone is a Professional Rider--because they haven't laid it down
2. Make sure "YOU LEARN and Admit it"--or else you're a moron and in denial
3. "Take it to the track" because that's where you're supposed to ride...(wink)
4. "Squids" are the only riders that crash...because they have bad lines and form
5. Oh and if you have a reputation for being funny--it's ok to disrepsect you

Stay Strong partner.... YOU Ride your Ride....like always.....

Next SAT...GMR....ACH....or Malibu??

CC Cowboy
April 11th, 2010, 01:53 PM
I realize I'm no pro and have a lot to learn but I'm not a (total) idiot.

Of course your not, a total idiot would keep posting. Then his buddies, that have also crashed, will defend him saying it's everyone else that sux.

Just REMEMBER KC...when you CRASH/Lay it down...this is what happens....

1. Everyone is a Professional Rider--because they haven't laid it down
2. Make sure "YOU LEARN and Admit it"--or else you're a moron and in denial
3. "Take it to the track" because that's where you're supposed to ride...(wink)
4. "Squids" are the only riders that crash...because they have bad lines and form
5. Oh and if you have a reputation for being funny--it's ok to disrepsect you

Stay Strong partner.... YOU Ride your Ride....like always.....

Next SAT...GMR....ACH....or Malibu??

adri99an
April 11th, 2010, 02:04 PM
Of course your not, a total idiot would keep posting. Then his buddies, that have also crashed, will defend him saying it's everyone else that sux.

:doh:

Hahahahaaa.....it never fails.....

:rotflmao:

Haider87
April 20th, 2010, 12:04 AM
Dang. Thanks for posting that. it was pretty courageous of you to put this up. Glad you're ok. Just get her rollin' true again. Battle scars are part of the fun.

You've probably helped a bunch of people at the cost of probably catching a little flak, and it's definitely helped me to watch this, and read the analysis.

binlagin
April 20th, 2010, 04:10 AM
Earth worm jim! He's such a groovy guy!

cnichols79us
April 20th, 2010, 05:08 PM
Group Hug????

hackeron
September 12th, 2010, 08:57 PM
Says video has been removed by user :( - Anyone have another link?

Alex
September 12th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Roman - ninja250 chose to leave the board and ain't coming back, no matter how many threads of his you bump. :)

hackeron
September 12th, 2010, 09:53 PM
Roman - ninja250 chose to leave the board and ain't coming back, no matter how many threads of his you bump. :)

Ah, I didn't know that. Why did he leave, upgrade? :)

Alex
September 12th, 2010, 09:54 PM
You'd have to ask him.