View Full Version : Open manhole cover eats bike!


Banzai
March 31st, 2010, 11:25 AM
Film at 11!

Well, I went down today, on my new ZX6R. 1200 miles on her. Here's the official report that I sent upline to my chain of command (active duty US Navy). Oh, and I'm one of 12 Departmental Motorcycle Safety coordinators for 3500 people!

Date: 30 March 2010
Time: 1500
Location: 600 block of S. Birdneck Rd., Virginia Beach, VA
Conditions: Dry, clear, 70 degrees, road construction area, dual lane opposing traffic
Vehicle: 2009 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R, 1260 miles
Safety Equipment/Clothing: Joe Rocket Super Street boots, Wal Mart brand denim jeans, Fieldsheer textile sport jacket with liner removed, heavy cotton hooded sweatshirt, Alpinestars S-MX6 mesh gloves, Icon Alliance SSR Speedfreak helmet.
Summary: Struck a man hole cover at 27mph, lost control

Narrative:
South Birdneck road is currently undergoing construction, alternately changing from freshly paved dual lane opposing traffic to old road bed scraped dual lane opposing traffic. All of the man hole accesses are built up with fresh asphault in mounds, and they straddle mainly the southbound lane as you are travelling from Virginia Beach Blvd towards General Booth Blvd.

I had cars in front and behind me, and we were travelling approximately 25mph throughout. I was maintaining 2 ½ to 3 car lengths distance between myself and the car in front of me.

As we approached the entrance to Ocean Breeze Motorworld, traffic slowed to allow cars to turn left into the southbound lane in front of the vehicles in front of me. I noticed other cars awaiting to turn southbound, as well, as I passed the Motorworld entrance. Approximately 50 feet past the entrance, I moved into the right hand side of the lane and checked following traffic in my left hand mirror and saw that another car had turned southbound in my lane approximately 1 to 2 cars behind me.

At this point, I scanned my gauges and checked the time at 1459 and my speed at 27mph as I shifted from 4th down into 3rd gear anticipating acceleration. As I noted 27mph, I heard the car in front of me accelerate and the metal on metal sound of the car rolling over a loose man hole access cover. As I looked up, the man hole access cover had popped up out of the hole and was sliding on the pavement in my lane towards me.

I observed that there was a truck oncoming in the lane to my left, that the man hole access was now wide open and unprotected, and that the man hole access cover was not flat but about 8 inches thick with a steel support structure under it. To my right, behind large construction cones and barrels, was approximately an 8 inch wide section of loose sand and gravel abutted to about a 4 inch step up in concrete above street level up to the new 6 inch hard edged square curb.

I observed that the man hole access was larger than a standard sidewalk hole, and was now completely open. I believe that it would have grabbed the front tire and flipped the bike completely. Into the oncoming truck was not an option. Through the cones/barrels and into the hard curb was not an option, as the man hole access cover was still in motion and sliding diagonally from the center of the road across my lane of travel towards the hard curb.

Having nowhere safe to swerve (oncoming truck, open hole, moving man hole access cover, or hard curb), I applied hard front brake and hoped that the cover would continue to slide far enough to my right to open enough space between it and the hole to allow my wheels to pass safely between the two. It did not.

I hit the 8 inch thick (2 inches for top platform, 6 inches of steel reinforcing ribs below) man hole access cover a glancing blow with my front wheel at a speed somewhere below 27mph, across approximately 1/3rd of the diameter of the cover. It deflected my wheel to the left, towards the open hole, as it tilted up under the weight of the motorcycle. The handlebars were forced hard to the left by the deflection of the front wheel.

As my front tire again contacted pavement, the rear tire struck the tipped up front of the man hole access cover, which rocked the rear of the motorcycle into the air. This forced the front wheel hard to the right with the handlebars. As the rear wheel came back into contact with the pavement, the bike was leaned dangerously to the left side and began to fall.

As I fell, I pushed away from the bike so that it would not fall on top of me. I contacted the ground on my left shoulder first, followed almost immediately by my left arm from elbow to wrist curled against my rib cage. I held my head to my right shoulder to prevent my head from contacting the pavement. At that time, I began to slide down grated asphault road surface separate from the motorcycle. Initially I slid abreast of the motorcycle, but ended up sliding past it and across the yellow dividing line and into the oncoming traffic lane. I was, at this point, behind the second of two vehicles that were passing me in the opposing lane, with no other oncoming traffic.

The motorcycle came to rest approximately 19 feet (the orange VDOT truck later parked between the man hole access cover and my oil spot, with a bumper covering each, the Dodge web page says it’s 19 feet long). I ended up about 3-5 feet further up the lane.

The armored shoulder and elbow pad in my jacket without a doubt absorbed all of the impact of the initial contact. My jacket has some road rash consistent with on the left arm from the top of my shoulder area all the way to the cuff. The back of my left glove sustained no damage.

I did NOT hit my head.

The palms of my gloves and the toe of my left boot sustained some VERY minor scuffs. I sustained an abrasion injury to my left knee, but there was no damage to the knee area of my pants. I was told by a person that saw what happened that I had rolled over and pushed up onto my hands and knees BEFORE I had stopped sliding. This seems consistent with the damage to my gloves, boot tip, and left knee.

The bike sustained damage to the front fairing, left upper fairing, left bar tip, clutch lever, left upper under fairing, engine generator case (scuffed and broken, leaked all the oil out), left protrusion of the gas tank (did not rupture), shifter peg, left passenger peg and support, left rear fairing, left swing arm slider spool.

My injuries consisted of a minor scuff rash to my left knee cap about the size of a silver dollar, and soreness and stiffness in my left torso and left and right shoulder area. I also have some stiffness and soreness in my neck, but this, I believe, is due to crash aggravation of a C6/C7 nerve pinch that I am already undergoing physical therapy for.

Responders to the incident (in order of arrival) were:
2 private citizens in separate cars. One 2 cars AHEAD of me who saw it in his side mirror and U turned and came back, and one 2 cars behind me who saw it all.
1 Virginia Motorist assist driver/unit. This guy was great! He took charge, made recommendations, and was busy with the radio, paperwork, and traffic.
1 Evo Williams contractor truck with 1 guy. These are the guys doing the paving.
2 VDOT trucks. The first had 2 guys in it. They were real cool at first, making sure I was OK and the bike was out of the way before anything else. The little guy got a tool from the truck and put the cover back in the hole, then the big guy stomped on it HARD, and sure enough, it popped right back out onto the road surface! The second VDOT truck had a suit and tie in it, and everyone shut up and wouldn’t talk to me anymore once he showed up.
2 Virginia Beach police cruisers. The first one had one cop who started the report. He barely said a word to me, and was mostly disinterested in everything. The second cruiser had a pair of cops who apparently moonlight as professional claims adjusters specializing in motorcycles. At $1500 or less damage, it’s a ½ page form. Over $1500 it’s a whole pad of paper sized form. I tried to tell them that there was more than $1500 damage, but they wouldn’t listen and started acting like asshats the more they spoke. The motorists assist guy had to break up their grab assing around my bike and got them to take over traffic direction. They weren’t happy. Neither was the police officer when I just called him and told him the claims adjuster placed the damage at over $2700! Guess he’s gonna have a long night filling out the forms after all, but that’s NOW between him and the insurance adjuster.
1 Fire truck. Summoned by the Motorist assist guy. They were cool, and cleaned up the oil that I leaked all over the road.
1 Ambulance. Summoned by the Motorist assist guy. They were cool, too. They bandaged my knee for me, but once they found out I was active duty military, they were pretty much hands off. I take that as normal around here unless you’re leaking vital bodily fluids in mass quantities or otherwise unresponsive. It’s a military thing, too. We grow up in a culture of “Go to the Naval hospital, no matter what. Just get checked out”. That’s what I did.

My wife, bless her heart, didn’t freak out when she got the call. She put the ramp and tie downs in the truck, collected a cousin of hers who was up visiting for the day, and came and got me. We loaded the bike into the truck, no thanks to ANYONE else on the scene except the gay VDOT guy (who pushed from the rear).

Likewise, she’s not against me riding. It was a freak accident. I got a little hurt, which is unfortunate, but it would have been about the same damage to my CAR seeing as I have less than 5 inches ground clearance, would have collected the man hole access cover with the undercarriage, and ended up with a tire in the hole.

Overall, I’m lucky. I walked away in disgust instead of riding away in an ambulance to assume room temperature somewhere.

I think that the BRC prepared me well with basic skills. I attended that class 08 April 2009. I believe that the Military Sport Bike Riders Course prepared me well by reinforcing those skills and adding to the skill sets and confidence level of a sport bike rider. I attended that class on 09 November 2009.

I have had a motorcycle endorsement on my license since 1989. From 1997 to 2009 I did not own a motorcycle and only occasionally operated one for small, short rides of friends vehicles around neighborhoods. When I purchased my 2008 Ninja 250 in March of 2009, it was intended as a re-starter bike, and served it’s purpose well for the 7500 miles that I logged on it in the 11 months (didn’t ride only when there was threat of ice or temps below 45F) that I owned it. It was, and remains, a very capable machine.

Gear, especially the proper gear, trumps it all. It made the difference between walking away with an (essentially) self induced rash on my knee and breaking bones. I believe in good gear. It’s like any other insurance policy. The BEST insurance on the planet is the stuff you never have to test. Failing that, WHY would you ever play “Bet your life” with anything less than the VERY BEST that you can afford? I have a wife that I love, 5 great kids, a great career, and friend and family that I enjoy. I’m almost 40 years old, and I’m going to feel cheated by life if I only get 40 more years! I want to spend it doing the things that I enjoy with the people that I care about in a state of health that allows me the freedom to choose my own destiny and comfort level.

Gear is good. Good gear is better. Better gear is great. Great gear is one hell of a lot cheaper than a funeral or long term paraplegic or amputee care. I believe in gear. Get the point yet?

What could I have done differently? Well, other than the obvious of not being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it’s vehicle spacing. We’re taught in school 3-5 car lengths separation minimum on the road, based on speed. More for bad conditions, and accepting that bumper to bumper traffic at 1mph is going to happen from time to time. Especially in cars and trucks/SUVs, we get comfortable going 70mph+ with just 1 car length spacing. Not safe.

Consider this: It takes 1 to 1 ½ seconds for a human driver to make an observation about something and classify it as a hazard. It takes about 1 second for your brain to react and move your body to react. That’s 2-2 ½ seconds from perception of the hazard to the START of REACTION. With 3 car lengths spacing, which is about 3 seconds, that leaves ½ to 1 second for your plan to work out!

Bottom line, the skill of driving is the essential practice of maintaining the proper spacing between you and all other vehicles consistently and in keeping with environmental conditions at the time. SPACE OUT MORE!!!

I’m sure of my 2 ½ to 3 car lengths separation because I counted just before coming around the turn in Bridneck where the Motorworld entrance is. I was on the constant look out for stones, road trash, construction debris, and careful to avoid the man hole access cover humps. I got caught between a rock and a hard place. Freak accident, act of God, Fate, bad luck, whatever, but it got me!

The vehicle down sensor on the bike didn’t work. The motor continued to run until I ran to the bike and shut it off with the kill switch on the right control bar. The left engine cover ground away and cracked, leaking oil all over the pavement. If I lost oil pressure, it was at idle, and not for very long before being shut off. I hit slow enough, although violently, that reasonably good frame sliders probably would have saved much of the damage, although the contact with the cover and subsequent lay over did tweak the fork tubes in the tree. Had the forks not tweaked and the case cover not cracked and leaked the oil out, the shifter still operated, as well as the clutch lever, and probably could have been ridden home!

That gear statement above goes for the bike, too!

kkim
March 31st, 2010, 11:33 AM
:(

Banzai
March 31st, 2010, 11:53 AM
Thanks, dude!

For the haters out there, I'm not looking for "Look at me" in this post. Trust me, my wounded pride and dignity got me over stuff like that YEARS ago.

I just want to share my "I went down" story so that you all are aware to look out for road hazards and to reconfirm that gear works!

Edit to add, $2700 damage, and they're going to start ordering parts and fixing her Thursday. The shop is running about 2 weeks behind, so if I'm lucky, by the time I'm cleared medically to ride, I might have my wheels back!

Banzai
March 31st, 2010, 12:21 PM
That is a very long report.

Figured I'd post it complete. I hate those cat and mouse threads where you have to pull each and every detail and part of the poster, so that a week later, you FINALLY get the full story.

I'm guessing you never had to write an official military report? I do that sort of thing for a living, so it comes naturally for me. My Commander wanted a little less "personality" in the report, but forwarded it up to the Captain as written! :thumbup:

Point one: Gear is good. Good gear is better. Better gear is great. Great gear is one hell of a lot cheaper than a funeral or long term paraplegic or amputee care. I believe in gear.

Point two: Consider this: It takes 1 to 1 ½ seconds for a human driver to make an observation about something and classify it as a hazard. It takes about 1 second for your brain to react and move your body to react. That’s 2-2 ½ seconds from perception of the hazard to the START of REACTION. With 3 car lengths spacing, which is about 3 seconds, that leaves ½ to 1 second for your plan to work out!

Point three: Manhole covers are only held down by gravity, and can pop up and ruin your day!

cnichols79us
March 31st, 2010, 12:27 PM
Holy Crap Man. Hit by a Man Hole Cover. Thats Crazy. Glad your ok...

Alex
March 31st, 2010, 12:29 PM
Anyone snap pics of the open manhole cover before the VDOT folks tried to pop it back on? Those pics alone, along with the narrative showing that whoever first popped that cover back on should have determined it was defective, ought to get you fully reimbursed right quick. You shouldn't be out a dime, and for that matter your insurance company shouldn't be out a dime. The state (or the state's insurance company, if they aren't self-insured for that type of thing) are clearly going to be on the hook for this.

Banzai
March 31st, 2010, 01:10 PM
Anyone snap pics of the open manhole cover before the VDOT folks tried to pop it back on? Those pics alone, along with the narrative showing that whoever first popped that cover back on should have determined it was defective, ought to get you fully reimbursed right quick. You shouldn't be out a dime, and for that matter your insurance company shouldn't be out a dime. The state (or the state's insurance company, if they aren't self-insured for that type of thing) are clearly going to be on the hook for this.

Nope, no pics. The Vdot and contractor trucks were there within MINUTES of me going down, and one of the citizens who stopped popped the cover back in. Bummer.

There is a form I have to fill out tomorrow. Seems like this sort of thing happens a lot around here, and the insurance folks are well versed. I can only hope!

OldGuy
March 31st, 2010, 05:20 PM
Wow doesn't cover it. Glad you came through with the minimal personal injuries.

M-Oorb
March 31st, 2010, 05:32 PM
Wow Thomas...i was pretty scared the whole time I read that. Shame about the brand new 6R...but glad your alright. Well said about the gear. Hopefully the bruises heal quickly...both physically and mentally.

Grn99Kawi
March 31st, 2010, 05:45 PM
wow.. glad you are okay!

littledog
March 31st, 2010, 05:48 PM
thank you for telling this story, and thank god you are ok

Betlog
March 31st, 2010, 05:48 PM
Figured I'd post it complete. I hate those cat and mouse threads where you have to pull each and every detail and part of the poster, so that a week later, you FINALLY get the full story.

I'm guessing you never had to write an official military report? I do that sort of thing for a living, so it comes naturally for me. My Commander wanted a little less "personality" in the report, but forwarded it up to the Captain as written! :thumbup:

Point one: Gear is good. Good gear is better. Better gear is great. Great gear is one hell of a lot cheaper than a funeral or long term paraplegic or amputee care. I believe in gear.

Point two: Consider this: It takes 1 to 1 ½ seconds for a human driver to make an observation about something and classify it as a hazard. It takes about 1 second for your brain to react and move your body to react. That’s 2-2 ½ seconds from perception of the hazard to the START of REACTION. With 3 car lengths spacing, which is about 3 seconds, that leaves ½ to 1 second for your plan to work out!

Point three: Manhole covers are only held down by gravity, and can pop up and ruin your day!

Thanks for sharing this. I will make sure to keep a good distance behind other vehicles when riding.

Sailariel
March 31st, 2010, 06:44 PM
Really glad you are OK. True, your gear proved itself in spades. I also sense that your skill level had a great effect on the outcome.

empyrean
March 31st, 2010, 07:05 PM
Banzai,

What a great report. I am so thoroughly impressed that you remembered everything and reported exactly what went through your mind about each and every step you took. From what it seems, you did everything right that you could to, along with minimizing as many injuries as you could (ie. pushing the bike away from you as you fell. What great advice!).

Classes are paramount when riding. I took a few months of classes from a professional before I bought my bike and only rode with my instructor and other well versed riders when I first started out. They can watch what I do and correct any bad habits that might come up.

Thank you for such a great report. And, thank you for the car lengths that you keep between you and the other cars ahead of you. I try to keep a good distance while on my bike as well, and use both the engine and the brakes to slow me down. Around where I live, I never know who's going to pull into my lane in front of me, or who's going to make some retarded maneuver that will either take me out or force me to stop too quickly.

I am happy that a cop told me that I was no fun since he would never have to pull me over for "riding like a bat out of hell". I said, "Well, yeah! I don't want a ticket and I don't want to get into an accident!"

Again, thank you! And, I am soooo glad that you are OK and that your wife is such a wonderful person to help you out.

Banzai
April 1st, 2010, 06:32 AM
Banzai,

What a great report. I am so thoroughly impressed that you remembered everything and reported exactly what went through your mind about each and every step you took. From what it seems, you did everything right that you could to, along with minimizing as many injuries as you could (ie. pushing the bike away from you as you fell. What great advice!).

Again, thank you! And, I am soooo glad that you are OK and that your wife is such a wonderful person to help you out.

Thank you for everything. It was like slooooooooooowwwwwww motion when it all happened, and I saw what was going to happen a split second before it did, and I turned out to be mostly right. What I didn't remember or see was filled in by the lady in the car behind me who told me what she saw.

Seems like everything took all day to happen, but I'm sure it was probably about 1/2 second!

Still sore today, and my knee is healing just fine.

On a side note, valium is a hell of a drug! Lowers my social filters about the same as 1/2 dozen beers!

Ramen
April 1st, 2010, 07:12 AM
lol did you really use the word "asshat" in the report? :D

Sorry you had to write it at all. Good on you for wearing proper gear!

g21-30
April 1st, 2010, 09:52 AM
Thomas, congratulations on surviving what could have been very disastrous! As you inferred...distance is your friend when riding a bike. I'm glad you're OK. Get back to riding ASAP! :)

noche_caliente
April 1st, 2010, 11:58 AM
Oh my goodness! This is not your typical I was stupid crash report. I am so glad you're ok! Good luck fighting the commonwealth on this one - hopefully the eye witness accounts will help you out. And give your poor wife a hug from me - I can only imagine how she must have felt when she got your phone call!

Banzai
April 1st, 2010, 07:06 PM
lol did you really use the word "asshat" in the report? :D


Yes. The Executive Officer was not amused. However, the Captain thought it was hillarious!

deezyellownutz
April 1st, 2010, 08:14 PM
Wow.. the most detailed "I went down." to date for me. Glad you are alright. Bikes come and go but only get to go once.

CC Cowboy
April 1st, 2010, 09:03 PM
Open manhole cover eats bike! Spits out rider!

OldGuy
April 1st, 2010, 09:11 PM
On a side note, valium is a hell of a drug! Lowers my social filters about the same as 1/2 dozen beers!

Better living through pharmaceuticals :)

Sounds like you have the typical command structure; the CO is comfortable enough to "let his hair down" and the XO is an up tight assh*le worried about getting the next stripe.

Keep us posted on what the insurance company and city do.

krbreton
April 2nd, 2010, 11:33 AM
Oh man, just read this thread, and we had just been discussing our new bikes a week ago.

Glad to hear you're OK. The scariest part of riding a bike are the uncontrollable's, like this. If you take yourself out being stupid, it seems like a fair trade, but an open manhole cover? That's just bad luck to the utmost.

Heal up quick.

-Kyle

untdavid
April 2nd, 2010, 12:27 PM
Glad you're ok. Yea, it sounds like one of those freak accidents. Glad the gear saved you and hope you/your bike make a quick recovery.

David :)

Banzai
April 2nd, 2010, 01:22 PM
$2800 damage. Take a week to get parts, and another week or so to fix.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/tkeith9512/S6301354.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/tkeith9512/S6301359.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/tkeith9512/S6301360.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/tkeith9512/S6301355.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/tkeith9512/S6301356.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/tkeith9512/S6301353.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/tkeith9512/S6301358.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/tkeith9512/S6301357.jpg

CC Cowboy
April 2nd, 2010, 02:10 PM
That 250 has a trick swingarm. Good thing it is green or you could have gotten really hurt.

Banzai
April 2nd, 2010, 04:52 PM
I was originally going to remove the passenger peg on the left side and get a different hanger for the muffler. That is, until this wreck and I realized that it's the widest part on the rear and saved me from more damage. The spool kept the rear axle bolt off of the pavement, too.

Banzai
May 5th, 2010, 08:57 AM
Update: I finally got my bike back yesterday. The overall total damage with labor was just shy of $3000.00, but she's just like new!

Last night a set of frame sliders and some Attack engine case covers went on, just in case another random man hole cover tries to eat me!

krbreton
May 5th, 2010, 09:02 AM
Glad to hear the bike is back to its original glory. Sounds like you're all healed up too. Just in time for the great weather.

Have fun, and try to keep the rubber side down, this time. ;)

-Kyle

Momaru
May 5th, 2010, 10:17 AM
Yikes man, very glad the damage was minimal to you and not too bad on the bike.
As others have said, thanks for the detailed full report. Hope you don't catch too much guff from your CO.

Sincerely hope VDOT gets the tab on this one; I think anyone who's lived in or travelled through VA can attest, VDOT could do a significantly better job.

Cab305
May 5th, 2010, 10:59 AM
At ease sailor. Excellent report!

<S>

tabogon
May 5th, 2010, 02:34 PM
Glad to hear you are ok.
Which base are you working on?

gogoKawi
May 5th, 2010, 02:54 PM
Word! Glad you are ok. Glad the zx6 is back and running.

I'm sharing this post with as many riders as I can. I find that many of the riders I know like to ride a bit too close behind other vehicles. It's unnerving how close they ride. Absolutely no time to react. Great post!!!

Banzai
May 5th, 2010, 05:32 PM
I'm stationed aboard the USS THEODORE ROOSEVELT CVN71. Right now we're in RCOH (Refuel Complex OverHaul=nuclear refueling and overhaul) and we're in the NGNN shipyards in Newport News. Our home port is the Norfolk Naval Base.

Thanks for all the support. Love this forum, and it's why I haven't left even with moving to another bike. :thumbup:

OldGuy
May 5th, 2010, 09:04 PM
I'm stationed aboard the USS THEODORE ROOSEVELT CVN71. Right now we're in RCOH (Refuel Complex OverHaul=nuclear refueling and overhaul) and we're in the NGNN shipyards in Newport News. Our home port is the Norfolk Naval Base.

Thanks for all the support. Love this forum, and it's why I haven't left even with moving to another bike. :thumbup:

Have fun with the "new" bike and serving aboard Teddy. Take good care of the name for me. Old Guy EM1(SS) USS Theodore Roosevelt SSBN 600 Gold.

Banzai
May 6th, 2010, 04:02 AM
Have fun with the "new" bike and serving aboard Teddy. Take good care of the name for me. Old Guy EM1(SS) USS Theodore Roosevelt SSBN 600 Gold.

Thanks for your service! :thumbup:

ATC(AW) Thomas A Keith

tabogon
May 6th, 2010, 06:35 AM
ET2(SS) Terry :thumbup:
Also a Trident guy, USS Kentucky SSBN 737 Blue...got orders to CT though. Gonna try out the new Virginia class subs.

I am stationed at COTF next to the Camp Allen marine base in Norfolk. If you never heard of COTF, no worries, no one ever seems to know. :D

Banzai
May 6th, 2010, 07:05 AM
ET2(SS) Terry :thumbup:
Also a Trident guy, USS Kentucky SSBN 737 Blue...got orders to CT though. Gonna try out the new Virginia class subs.

I am stationed at COTF next to the Camp Allen marine base in Norfolk. If you never heard of COTF, no worries, no one ever seems to know. :D

Oh yeah, I know where you're at. I shoot at the Camp Allen range about once a week.

What's up with bubble heads and bikes? LOL Almost as bad as Airdales and guns!

Look out for the speed bumps on 64! Seems like with Spring they're getting out and fixing some of them, and making others worse!

tabogon
May 6th, 2010, 11:43 AM
Noted. The one I really "love" is the strip they laid down across the on ramp from Terminal, even in my truck that thing sucks. Which they would fix the outside lanes on Terminal too, that street is all torn up.