Okay, after nine months of riding, I've decided.....I'm gonna start leaning. No no, don't try and stop me....it's crazy but I've made up my mind. I'm gonna do it. I think.

Just in case you haven't picked up on this yet, I'm a huge chickenshit. I corner like an old lady on a scooter. Come to think of it, I sort of am an old lady on a scooter.......anyway, when I corner, I do so fairly straight up and down. Not really leaning at all. I've seen it done, of course, and heard "trust the bike", but....I'm scared. So, my questions are: how does one go about this......starting to lean, I mean? is there a WRONG way to do it, one that winds you up on your side every time? Actually, I'll probably find that on my own. God help me.

Also, before anyone asks....Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist II"? Yeah, I ordered it....it's on the way.
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question for you before you start your leaning endeavor... do you ever use peg weighting to guide the bike? I find using peg weighting can dramatically alter how easily the bike corners.

try it... weight the inside peg of the direction you want to turn. doesn't need to be dramatic, just split the weight difference left to right. This will do 2 things, 1) weight the inside peg, of course, and 2) lift your butt off the seat (or at least alter the amount of weight you are putting on the bike with your butt) and transfer the weight lower on the bike to the pegs. It will make the bike more stable and maneuverable at the same time.

After you master the art of peg weighting, leaning will come naturally as you will simply be moving your upper body into position with the majority of control being transferred to the bike through your feet.

You just go around corners now straight up, like no leaning at all?

For beginners, just sit up on the bike..... go with the bike. If the bikes leaning, lean with it. So if its at 60deg, you are too. < still basically sitting straight up on the bike :) You can go pretty good like that...... Then later get into the whole motogp style riding, if you would even need too ;)

Read that book first. :thumbup:

Kim's right, I peg weight and found a nice difference in the cornering. I peg weight when I get bored even on lane change and str8t riding just for somethin else to do. Leaning starts to come confidence and it ain't 1/2 bad. Ride with guyz and they'll get you leaning in no time:thumbup:

For a beginner practicing in traffic can be scary. I suggest practicing doing turns in a large parking lot with no obsticles such as bump stops. Start with wide turns and slowly make the turns tighter and tighter as you get comfortable leaning with the bike. Take your time and it will start to come natural to you.

Here's a simple way to start leaning without thinking about it.

Lead with your head.

By that I mean that if you're going around a corner to the right, look through the corner and extend our head towards your right hand.

In your peripheral vision you should notice that your head is not over the center of the bike. It's somewhere between the centerline and your right hand.

Your body (i.e. your shoulders and chest) will follow your head automatically. That will cause you to lean and you won't have to think consciously about it at all.

It's actually a lot of fun, once you start really going for it. Look at photos of the racers going around corners... see where their chins are?

Hanging your butt off is fun, but it's scary. Moving your head to the inside is not scary at all.

Did you know your head weighs about as much as a bowling ball? Think about that for a moment. If you move your head off the centerline of the bike, it's going to lean all by itself.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS look where you want to go. Look down, you'll go down. DO NOT FIXATE ON LOOKING STRAIGHT AHEAD!!!!!

Here's what I mean:

Stiff, staring straight ahead.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/adouglas2001/Ninjapics/Photo16.jpg

Looking through the turn but still straight up and down

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/adouglas2001/Ninjapics/Photo19.jpg

Leading with your head. Notice I didn't just stick my neck out. I moved my whole upper body towards my hand.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/adouglas2001/Ninjapics/Photo21.jpg

LOL @ Andrew! Thank you for the pics. <3 <3!! Made my mornin'!

Well, we have to keep the ugly in balance, don't we? You're way too cute.

Ah, you're too kind. :)

I practice a lot in empty school parking lots... right now I'm working on my "butt-off-the-seat-left-leg-leaning-into-the-bike-right-toe-on-the-peg-right-leg-out-method" (That's going into a right turn by the way).

Keep practicing, it's the only way to improve. I also like to study the professional's riding techniques. If you watch MOTOGP, sometimes they will show what gears the riders are in and when they give throttle and when they brake going in and coming out of a turn. Kinda neat!

GL!

Great demo Andrew!

Ah, you're too kind. :)

I practice a lot in empty school parking lots... right now I'm working on my "butt-off-the-seat-left-leg-leaning-into-the-bike-right-toe-on-the-peg-right-leg-out-method" (That's going into a right turn by the way).

Keep practicing, it's the only way to improve. I also like to study the professional's riding techniques. If you watch MOTOGP, sometimes they will show what gears the riders are in and when they give throttle and when they brake going in and coming out of a turn. Kinda neat!

GL!

Sounds like somebody is going to drag knee soon.:D

:thumbup: Nice High Quality Pics Andrew.

Thanks, everyone. I've been watching videos like a madwoman, to learn and to watch other people lean. BONUS: I FINALLY understand countersteering, and it's not all that complicated. Apparently, I am just a moron.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS look where you want to go.

You know, that "look where you're going" thing, that is just motorcycle magic. It really works, every time. I even showed my daughter the theory, of sorts, in her car. I know the physics are different, but it still works. Amazing.

Not to get all misty here, but I just want to say that I love this forum. I am sort of a loner, motorcycling-wise....and not really by choice. I'm my own demographic, plus I'm a bit slower than the younger riders I know, so I mostly ride alone (oh brother, can you say "pity-party"?:rolleyes:). Anyway, you guys feel like riding buddies, if only virtually....*sniff*

Debbi,

You're awesome. I love reading your posts. I am all about friends virtual or not. :) I can say that because of riding a motorcycle I have become an even better car driver. I am more aware, I am always looking out for bikes, I am always attentive to those in front/behind/around me. This sport is amazing and each person will learn in their own way.

Take it easy, relax and enjoy! :)

PS, Andrew: Who is that awesomely bald man leaning in my avatar?

LOL @ rceezy! :)

I'm partial to this one, Andrew! :p

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/adouglas2001/Ninjapics/Photo16.jpg

LOL what the hell! Nice pics Andrew :thumbup:

Debbi, here are some photos (stolen from here (http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21556) ) that will explain body position and lean angle:

Neatural
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/pestilencevfr/straight.jpg

Crossed up = bad - Notice the lean angle of the bike compaired to neutral or hanging off.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/pestilencevfr/crossed.jpg

Hanging off 1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/pestilencevfr/proper2.jpg

Hanging off 2 - More body mass to the inside of turn vs. above, less lean angle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/pestilencevfr/proper.jpg

Also note the rider is looking through the turn - always good. You don not need to hang off like that on the street but sliding your rear a little off the seat and pointing your chin in the direction of the turn helps when turning.

Keep learning.

Who is that awesomely bald man leaning in my avatar?

More important, what's off camera that's so darned interesting?

hehehe

By the way... you do know that the more of your body weight you get off centerline, the more upright the bike, right?

If you're afraid of scraping hard bits and lowsiding, the MORE you get your body off-center the less likely you are to do that.

More important, what's off camera that's so darned interesting?

hehehe

YouPorn?

hehehe

By the way, Andrew, you TOTALLY rock for posting those pics!

:allhail:

As a matter of fact, the girl in the next office over is a dead ringer for Grace Kelly.

I like going to work.

As a matter of fact, the girl in the next office over is a dead ringer for Grace Kelly.

I like going to work.

Wow, you did those at WORK? For lil' ol' ME? In that case:


:allhail::allhail::allhail::allhail:

LOL great pictures

Alrighty, this board is slipping. Those pics have been up for half a day and nobody has yet made an animated gif of Andrew demonstrating proper head technique! :)

I've bookmarked this website and look at it every couple of weeks as a refresher.

http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/

Over the past couple of months, I've really noticed a great improvement in my cornering technique.

As eveyone else says, look down the road and where you want to go. If you keep doing this, your riding will improve.

Alrighty, this board is slipping. Those pics have been up for half a day and nobody has yet made an animated gif of Andrew demonstrating proper head technique! :)

We need more geeks that ride bikes!

DRivero, I feel your pain. It took months for me to have any confidence in the bike and myself. I was just too scared that it would tip over or that I would lose control while in the turn.

I went on a lot of group rides and followed people that looked like they knew what they were doing. It helped tremendously. Keith's Code book and video will definitely help. But, nothing beats seeing someone in front of you doing what you want to do.

I wish I was still living in Sunrise. Otherwise, I would say let's go for a ride! :)

Great gif Matt.

debbi
comprehending the counter steering thing is what got me leaning in the right direction :rolleyes:
i've found that with the 250 i dont hang butt like i did with the 700 cept for a few corners.
keep things smooth, and andrew's look-through visual aids are a cross-eyed gem :thumbup:

good one bruddah andrew :lol:

debbi
comprehending the counter steering thing is what got me leaning in the right direction...

I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this yet.

Firstly, you've certainly been leaning, since that is pretty much required for the bike to turn. I think you just want to be more comfortable with it, which is fine.

You've also been counter-steering. But I wonder if you are consciously or subconsciously doing it. Just push on the handlebar which is in the direction you want to turn. Push right for right and left for left. This is by far the quickest way to lean the bike and to get it turning. Body position compliments this, but for you right now, I'd stick with the "Neutral" body position. Just lean with the bike. Looking where you want to go and 'leading with your head' will help you a lot in getting comfortable.

I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this yet.

Firstly, you've certainly been leaning...................You've also been counter-steering. But I wonder if you are consciously or subconsciously doing it.......

Well, I have to say I am very excited tonight......rode the bike for the first time since posting this thread (it rains a lot here), and guess what? I have been countersteering, the whole time! I just was never concious of it. Tonight I went for a ride, up and down this road by my house that's a little curvy.....not twisty, just curves. Anyway, I paid attention to what I was doing and, lo and behold, I countersteer! In fact, I would even go so far as to say, you can't NOT do it.

The best (and I'm sure most obvious) thing about this information is that it seems like it's opened up a whole new world of.....what? Responsiveness? I swear, it seems as though my little Garu was like, "well FINALLY, I get to show you what a good boy I can be!". Oh, we had much fun!

Anyway, that was around curves, and doing lane changes. Cornering is a whole other thing altogether, but I did do some countersteering practice on the corners. It definitely works, of course, but I think I need to be reeeeally careful practicing that; I did it turning left, pushed a bit too hard, leaned a bit too much and freaked myself right out. Baby steps.

You guys ROCK.

Every rider has to find that fine edge and learn how to stay on the correct side of it and pay it the respect it's owed. it's physics...

Baby steps, indeed.

bet you're still smilin'... and that's what it's all about !! :thumbup:

congrats!

bet you're still smilin'...

I am....I'm such a friggin' goofball....:D

Debbi,
I was going to say if you've ever been skiing (snow that is) you find that the skis turn to where your head is going and weighting the ski bends it to turn it (much like leaning a motorcycle). Then I looked up and saw south florida under your pic.


Andrew,
What does the Grace Kelly looking girl at the next desk do when you look over at her that way - haha.

When you countersteer in a corner be sure to have enough speed cause too much
and you can fall over! Careful and yes baby steps!

Okay, after nine months of riding, I've decided.....I'm gonna start leaning. No no, don't try and stop me....it's crazy but I've made up my mind. I'm gonna do it. I think.

Just in case you haven't picked up on this yet, I'm a huge chickenshit. I corner like an old lady on a scooter. Come to think of it, I sort of am an old lady on a scooter.......anyway, when I corner, I do so fairly straight up and down. Not really leaning at all. I've seen it done, of course, and heard "trust the bike", but....I'm scared. So, my questions are: how does one go about this......starting to lean, I mean? is there a WRONG way to do it, one that winds you up on your side every time? Actually, I'll probably find that on my own. God help me.

Also, before anyone asks....Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist II"? Yeah, I ordered it....it's on the way.
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Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II is good. Are you talking about the DVD?
And I know this is going to probably sound lame to some of the riders on here, but I live in florida and we are required to take the basic riders course in order to get our endorsement on our license. I recommend everybody on a bike at least take the basic riders course, and if possible, invest in the advanced and master's classes too. I thought the basic class would not help but I had to take the course for my endorsement. I've been riding for a while. But, after taking the course, I found that even the basic course can help even experienced riders. This prompted me to take an advanced course and I am going to take the racing course next. I recommend that everyone take the course(s). I know it seems lame but they really do help. Even the basic, and no matter how long you been riding you will learn something.

Here's a simple way to start leaning without thinking about it.

Lead with your head.

By that I mean that if you're going around a corner to the right, look through the corner and extend our head towards your right hand.

In your peripheral vision you should notice that your head is not over the center of the bike. It's somewhere between the centerline and your right hand.

Your body (i.e. your shoulders and chest) will follow your head automatically. That will cause you to lean and you won't have to think consciously about it at all.

It's actually a lot of fun, once you start really going for it. Look at photos of the racers going around corners... see where their chins are?

Hanging your butt off is fun, but it's scary. Moving your head to the inside is not scary at all.

Did you know your head weighs about as much as a bowling ball? Think about that for a moment. If you move your head off the centerline of the bike, it's going to lean all by itself.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS look where you want to go. Look down, you'll go down. DO NOT FIXATE ON LOOKING STRAIGHT AHEAD!!!!!

Here's what I mean:

Stiff, staring straight ahead.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/adouglas2001/Ninjapics/Photo16.jpg

Looking through the turn but still straight up and down

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/adouglas2001/Ninjapics/Photo19.jpg

Leading with your head. Notice I didn't just stick my neck out. I moved my whole upper body towards my hand.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/adouglas2001/Ninjapics/Photo21.jpg

HAHA dude I love it!!! That's some funny S word there.

Debbi just remember to keep it fun and relax and it will all come natural.

Debbi just remember to keep it fun and relax and it will all come natural.

Thanks, Rick. You know, now that I realize that I've been (mostly) doing it all along, it makes it MUCH easier to relax!

Check it out, I've been taking this route since I started riding last month.

I go Alton Road south from 65th street right were it starts. Plenty of curves to lean on. Not too twisty but fun for a beginner. As soon as I get to Dade Blvd. (South Beach) I head west on Venetian Cswy. You would basically do it coming from downtown. If you want, let me know and I'll come join you for the ride. Around midnight there are practically no cars, so its fun to get a little spirited.

PM me when you want to check it out.

I can't wait for them to finish Indian Creek construction.

Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II is good. Are you talking about the DVD?
And I know this is going to probably sound lame to some of the riders on here, but I live in florida and we are required to take the basic riders course in order to get our endorsement on our license. I recommend everybody on a bike at least take the basic riders course, and if possible, invest in the advanced and master's classes too. I thought the basic class would not help but I had to take the course for my endorsement. I've been riding for a while. But, after taking the course, I found that even the basic course can help even experienced riders. This prompted me to take an advanced course and I am going to take the racing course next. I recommend that everyone take the course(s). I know it seems lame but they really do help. Even the basic, and no matter how long you been riding you will learn something.

Manos - whats the advance course consist of?

Once i got a pair of knee-sliders i felt more confident to get further over than i originally did, shifting your bum off the seat helps infinately IMHO, makes the bike feel so much more stable..

After i got my sliders, I spent a weekend just taking sharp turns, finding the limits, got my knee on the floor, ticked that off, now i just go into corners at whatever speed, and if i realise i've messed up and gone too quick i know how much more i can lean over! :) good luck with your cornering, because it is the best bit of being on 2 wheels!!

Manos - whats the advance course consist of?

The advanced course picks up where the basic course left off... Alot of stuff that's useful for emergency situations, like, handling emergencies in corners, more in depth analysis of motorcycle physics, better stopping procedures(especially useful at high speeds) how to avoid common myths, (like gearing down and engine braking while braking slows you down slower, actually, than just clutching and braking, with proof on the track to show you the difference, usually 10 or so feet) etc blah blah blah, lol. It helps hone the skills. From what I understand, its similar to the course the motorcycle cops have to take. I'm not a cop though and have not taken the motorcycle cop course. lol.

You will give up trying to lean long before the bike will, the bike is better than you and most people who ride it (i include me in that bunch)

I have being helping a friend learn to ride and just want to point out a few things I know helped him and I think will help you.

1. Set your tire pressures up right 28 psi up front, 32 psi at the rear, in a straight line and really slow turns you won't see much difference, but in a lean of 30 degrees or more it is critical. At 30psi up front the i can't lean far as the front has no feel, at 26 psi up front it fells unstable, at 28 psi its perfect. Pre-load too if you've not done it already.

2. You have to lean to turn so you are kinda doing it already, points about body positioning are well done already, so I'll just add that you move your body before you turn, otherwise you will wobble, also you are moving your body with your legs, most people when they try to move first will end up putting inputs into the bars that don't help and cause a wobble. That is not he bike doing the shaking its you. If you keep a bend in your elbows all the time when riding and braking then this won't be an issue for you.

3. In order to lean further you will have to go around the turn faster, got any quiet roundabouts in your neighbourhood? They are great for practicing on.

4. Once you start doing it you will be addicted, but read that book. First thing it will hammer into you is that you need to accelerate gently around a bend, getting on the gas a little stabilizes the bike and makes it feel great, also makes you feel like you could have lent further. If your off the gas the bike will be reluctant to turn, if your on the gas the bike will want to turn more.

Good luck :thumbup:

Recent vid of mine with about this whole subject

G_kwp-YUDs0