I am finding myself unintentionally forming a habit of stopping at lights in 2nd gear. At first I only did this due to miscounting my shifts, but once I realized what was happening I did it a few times intentionally.

It seems that, at least in 90F+ Texas summer heat, there is no chance of me stalling out doing this on the 08+ 250r.. The low end torque is certainly compromised compared to 1st and this makes the takeoff not nearly as thrilling, but for a 'casual' ride the convenience of not navigating that tricky final gear has started to make it seem worth it.

Now my question is this: Am I forming a detrimental habit? I am nervous that when I move on to larger bikes the different gear ratio will make this impossible.. Or that in colder weather I risk stalling out.. Or that I simply am training myself to ride in a way that isn't getting the most out of the bike (that low end torque of 1st is so FUN :cool:)..

Any opinions?

I don't think it's a really bad habit but stopping in 1st would be better just in case you had to move in a hurry.

If it's working for you, sure! But I think that there are a couple of potential downsides. With the limited torque of our engine, starting in second is going to require a little more clutch slip to get moving. Whether that additional clutch slip will result in any additional wear compared to starting in 1st, well, who knows. Maybe, maybe not. If it turns out that while starting out you realize that you need to get going faster than expected, being in 2nd at very low speeds can keep you from being able to accelerate as quickly as you would have been able to otherwise. Last concern, is that it may be harder to confirm by feel that you're actually in 2nd, compared to 3rd, for example. To get to first, you click all the way down, and you can even see the neutral light pop on as you come through 2nd down to 1st, so there's positive confirmation you're in the right gear. If you end up in 3rd by miscounting on the way down, there's no chance of pulling away with any speed, and are much more likely to stall the bike where it sits.

so, you never use first gear at all? I'd be concerned with clutch wear, if you are slipping the clutch more to get started from a dead start.

ever considered regearing to make first gear taller?

i usually slow down and stop in second, because downshifting to 1st is a BITCH if you dont rev high enough. After im stopped though i shift down to first, ready to take off while watching the rear view for inattentive drivers who would otherwise plow me through the intersection.

so, you never use first gear at all? I'd be concerned with clutch wear, if you are slipping the clutch more to get started from a dead start.

ever considered regearing to make first gear taller?
I use it quite a lot, but I found myself getting a bit 'lazy' on a long ride. However I am a very new rider and have enough will power to FORCE the right habits into my brain :D If 1st has clear advantages (and this thread is making me feel it certainly does) than this is the habit I will make myself learn.

I am not sure what regearing is or what you mean by making it taller? Could you elaborate? Sorry I am a total newbie. :thumbup:

i usually slow down and stop in second, because downshifting to 1st is a BITCH if you dont rev high enough. After im stopped though i shift down to first, ready to take off while watching the rear view for inattentive drivers who would otherwise plow me through the intersection.
:D That sounds like a great idea. It is the downshifting that is troublesome for me; taking off I would much prefer to be in 1st. Anyone see any downsides to this approach? I suppose if the light turned green and you wanted a quick accel before you reached a stop (but while you are in the 1st gear speed zone) it might be problematic.

I use it quite a lot, but I found myself getting a bit 'lazy' on a long ride. However I am a very new rider and have enough will power to FORCE the right habits into my brain :D If 1st has clear advantages (and this thread is making me feel it certainly does) than this is the habit I will make myself learn.

I am not sure what regearing is or what you mean by making it taller? Could you elaborate? Sorry I am a total newbie. :thumbup:


:D That sounds like a great idea. It is the downshifting that is troublesome for me; taking off I would much prefer to be in 1st. Anyone see any downsides to this approach? I suppose if the light turned green and you wanted a quick accel before you reached a stop (but while you are in the 1st gear speed zone) it might be problematic.

when your down shifting through the gears, and you hit second, pull the clutch in to stop, and if the light turns green let it out and move from second back up. Only shift to first when you actually come to a complete stop. Don't downshift to 1st while rolling too fast for it. I do the same with my Manual transmission cars. 1st gear is WAY to small and jerkey to slow down with.

regarding regearing...
http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Should_I_consider_changing_my_sprocket_sizes%3F

sounds to me like you just need to learn how to ride the bike first, then decide on regearing later.

How are you downshifting when coming to a stop? I usually engine brake by downshifting through the gears when coming to stop from a higher speed. I never totally downshift to first, though, but wait till the bike is stopped before I slip it into first. Like Alex said, using the neutral light to confirm you're putting it into first is a neat idea. After awhile, you'll get a feel as to what the "correct" gear is by the sound of the engine and how much effect it has on slowing the bike.

If I approach a stop at a lower speed, I will usually apply my brakes and pull in the clutch and leave it in as I downshift completely to first by watching for that green neutral light. I never let the clutch out when moving with the bike in first gear... come to a complete stop first.

Kelly, is there an ideal ratio for more torque in the first 4 or 5 gears, and more top speed in the high gear? basically, i would like faster takeoffs and kick ass acceleration around town, and lower rpm's and better mpg for highway. how much $$$ are we talking about for regearing the gear box? I have another discussion with alex about emissions and performance mods, and $$$ vs buying a second 600cc bike next july when the payments for this bike are up. I wanna commute with awesome mpg and blast around the mountains.

too much $$$ to regear internally. In essence, you are stuck with the ratios that Kawasaki selected for the transmission gears. Much cheaper to regear the final drive (counter shaft and rear sprockets).

Every thing is a compromise and you'll never end up with "perfect" gearing, though I'm surprised at how many that have regeared the ninjette taller and are happy with the results. That must say something in itself. My bike is still geared stock.

regarding regearing...
http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Should_I_consider_changing_my_sprocket_sizes%3F

sounds to me like you just need to learn how to ride the bike first, then decide on regearing later.

Couldn't agree more :o


How are you downshifting when coming to a stop? I usually engine brake by downshifting through the gears when coming to stop from a higher speed. I never totally downshift to first, though, but wait till the bike is stopped before I slip it into first. Like Alex said, using the neutral light to confirm you're putting it into first is a neat idea. After awhile, you'll get a feel as to what the "correct" gear is by the sound of the engine and how much effect it has on slowing the bike.

If I approach a stop at a lower speed, I will usually apply my brakes and pull in the clutch and leave it in as I downshift completely to first by watching for that green neutral light. I never let the clutch out when moving with the bike in first gear... come to a complete stop first.

I think I see the issue I am having now. I have been using 1st as part of my engine-braking routine and the jerkiness has been a huge issue. The 'laziness' was from me learning I could only shift into 1st at below perhaps 15mph to have it be at all smooth, and the time frame for that is so tiny that I felt like I kept missing it.

In truth, my new habit of braking when in 2nd is exactly what you are describing with the additional step of hitting 1st once stopped. I really like this idea; in fact I tried it out just now picking my bike up from the shop (new tires! :thumbup:) and it felt REALLY good. Took away the difficulty I was having hitting first while stopping, but gave me the torque of first while starting.

Thanks for the killer advice. I am loving this forum; much friendlier than KawiForums was. :happy100:

much friendlier than KawiForums was. :happy100:

I have many good friends still over at KF. I agree this forum is great, too, but you'll find good and not so good members on every forum. :rolleyes:

What makes this site the best, for me, is the tone that Alex sets. Very rare to have a site administrator who is also an active, valuable, contributing member who can wear multiple hats (helmets) with ease.

welcome to ninjette. :thumbup:

I re-geared my front to a 15 tooth. This makes the bike much more use-able in 1st gear.