Not sure if this is the right section for this, if not feel free to move it Alex.

I recently received an email from a Buell riding friend of mine informing me of this bill (SB 435) before the California Senate. If you are as outraged as I am that the state legislature, which can't even pass a budget until six months after its deadline, is wasting its time with more useless laws that accomplish nothing but further burdening the residents of this state, then take action now. Write your legislator and senator and tell them to quit wasting their time on this. Writing a real letter is better than email because they often don't even read the emails they get from their constituents. The message I got from my friend is below.

-----

California Senate Bill 435 is now being considered in the California Legislature. If it passes, not only will you have to have your bike smogged every two years, but forget about having any aftermarket pipe or performance mods on your bike. And the current bill as written is retroactive back to motorcycles built after year 2000 (I think). If you want to raise your voice to prevent this, follow the link below to send a letter to your congressman. It’s easy to do it as an email, but more effective to do it as a letter. Please do it, and please forward to all your motorcycle enthusiast friends.


Click on this URL to take action now

http://capwiz.com/amacycle/utr/2/?a=12937506&i=84755754&c=

If your email program does not recognize the URL as a link, copy the entire URL and paste it into your Web browser.

The URL will generate most of the message below. I wrote and inserted paragraph 3 below, but the online system lets you insert any text you want into paragraph 3.


Dear [recipient name was inserted here],

Senate Bill 435 would mandate testing for all motorcycles model year 2000 and newer. This despite the lack of any evidence that motorcycles are a significant source of emissions statewide.

The only two counties to ever smog test motorcycles nationwide, Pima and Maricopa in Arizona, have already shown that motorcycle testing leads to no significant reduction in measured emissions levels. Pima County has already dropped their testing program and Maricopa is awaiting EPA's approval to do the same.

For no significant benefit, motorcyclists would be burdened with the cumbersome process of getting the inspections, and they would need to likely pay higher rates than automobiles to get it done. The testing facilities are not equipped to do this testing, and since there are not as many motorcycles on the road, not many would open up because it wouldn't be as profitable as it is for cars. Motorcycles are supposed to be economical transportation, and imposing more fees and requirements on them will make less people ride them and climb back into their cars, thus congesting the highways even more.

Other important points to consider are:

Motorcycles, because of their relatively low yearly mileage totals when compared to other classes of vehicles, already have the lowest emissions of any motor vehicle category in California.

This bill has no specific information regarding the test method to be used, emissions levels to be enforced or the test's potential costs to either the state or the individual owners.

The deadline proposed for creating a testing procedure is slated for July 1, 2011 in the bill, and this is simply too close to the proposed test implementation date of January 1, 2012.

California's motorcycle engine emission standards are already the strictest in the nation, and were just reduced again for model year 2008 and newer motorcycles

If a smog check program is implemented, motorcycles constructed prior to the implementation date should be exempted from the testing.

"We" the industry have been following and working on this closely with the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council), of which I am on the aftermarket technical committee. This has been brought up, and shot down many, many times over the years as absolutely ridiculous from a logistical standpoint. And with continued diligence, it will be shot down again and again.

In essence, the strongest points are: Motorcycles as a whole, make up a minute number of vehicles on the road and/or contribution to overall emissions output. Both based on oveall efficency and miles driven. It would create a near impossible inspection station process on the visual aspect (exhaust system aside) of EVAP equipment. Many/most of which would require body work, gas tank, seats, hoses, etc, to be removed. As well as a complete working knowledge of every single component and location, on every single year and model affected. It's staggering logistically for the actual overall "benefit"...

Thanks for the info Kerry. I guess the title of the thread may sound a little alarmist, but the idiots in Sacramento never stop amazing me with their stupidity. I looked up the bill on the state senate web site and it looks like its in committee, hopefully it will stay there and die. Since you follow this, maybe you can let us know if/when there is anything we should do?

I live in California. :(

Thanks for the info Kerry. I guess the title of the thread may sound a little alarmist, but the idiots in Sacramento never stop amazing me with their stupidity. I looked up the bill on the state senate web site and it looks like its in committee, hopefully it will stay there and die. Since you follow this, maybe you can let us know if/when there is anything we should do?

Believe me - All of us in the industry are on top of this.;)

Someone needs to arrange for every one of our ridiculous, uncooperative, budget-destroying legislators to go do a job they are qualified for; like Tent City Sanitation Crew. They are used to shovelling the poop.
Posted via Mobile Device

So wait - I gotta get the ninja checked out lol? Yeah I remember reading this and I think its gonna suck if it passes - will send letter to my congress man.

A California State Assembly committee has endorsed legislation that would to require motorcyclists in the Golden State to have an EPA-compliant exhaust system on their 2011 or newer motorcycles. Two days ago the Committee on Transportation approved Senate Bill 435 with an 8-4 vote, which would make it illegal to operate a 2011 or newer motorcycle with an exhaust system that doesn’t have an EPA label that certifies it as meeting noise limit standards. According to the bill, riders would incur a “fix it” ticket if caught without their EPA exhaust sticker if the bill came into law.

The American Motorcyclist Association opposes the bill on the grounds that it improperly address a legitimate issue. “Many EPA labels are very difficult to locate on motorcycles,” said AMA Western States Representative Nick Haris. “This proposed law could lead to a flurry of tickets for motorcyclists who have legal exhaust systems on their machines with EPA labels that can’t be easily seen. It’s unreasonable to expect a law enforcement officer to easily locate an EPA label, and it’s simply unfair to expect a motorcycle owner to partially dismantle an exhaust system alongside the road to prove the label exists.

The AMA has been running an active anti-excessive loud exhaust campaign recently, in an effort to better community ties between riders and non-riders. With better means of regulation available to the State of California, the AMA hopes that together with the Californian legislature they can achieve the same goal, without unfairly burdening riders who are compliant with the law.

“Requiring that a motorcycle display a readily visible EPA label isn’t the correct way to address concerns about excessive motorcycle sound,” continued Haris. “The only objective way to determine whether a motorcycle complies with sound laws is for properly trained personnel to conduct sound level tests using calibrated meters and an agreed-upon testing procedure.”

The AMA has drafted model legislation that adequately deals with and defines excessive motorcycle exhaust noise, using SAE standards, and encourages California and other states to consider it. In the mean time, the AMA is asking its members in California to encourage their representatives to vote against SB 435 when it comes to vote.

Source: AMA

Yeah, it sounded like this was dead awhile back, but it somehow seems to have resurfaced. Here's a thread on it in its last incarnation --> link (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15611)

God... I cringe/hate it when I read another newbie post looking for the loudest exhaust available for the 250 cause "loud pipes saves lives." :rolleyes:

If only they knew the damage they are doing to a sport they just recently became involved in. Even other motorcyclists (AMA) know that loud pipes lead to higher restrictions/laws/biases/stereotyping against motorcyclists. Everyone wants to play "racer dude" on the street... how about going to real track to play racer dude, instead?

Back in the 60s/70s, all offroad dirtbikes came with no muffler or if they did, it was a token one from the manufacturer. We all rode our 2 stroke racing bikes in the back woods and fields around the town in which I grew up. Guess what, that was happening all over the nation as more and more people took up off road riding/racing.

Between the dust and obnoxiously loud two stroke expansion chambers, key people locally, and on a national level, worked to shut down riding areas. Police actually gave chase off road and the military was called in to track bikes by helicopter if you were on federal training grounds, riding.

Today, it is totally unacceptable to ride anywhere except designated motorcycle recreational parks. It's unheard of (no pun intended) for bikes not to have mufflers.

What I'm getting at is this has all taken place before... people with legislative power fighting to change laws to shut the few that make the most noise with their bikes, back under control. The big losers, of course, will be all motorcyclists.

Once Khalifonia falls, they other states will follow suit.

http://0.tqn.com/d/motorcycles/1/0/V/s/-/-/South_Park_Harleys.jpg

Brap! BNRrRAaarp! Braarakp!

Kelly, Maine is going in that direction as well. In 2011, a noise test will be done as part of the annual motorcycle inspection. There are ways around that. People will slip on the stock exhaust for the inpection--get the sticker, and then go home and put the loud pipes back on. They are now debating what the decibel level should be, and how this can be enforced. It would appear that every law enforcement officer will have to be issued a decibel meter, along with every MC Inspection Station. This will cost a lot of money; So we can expect a price hike in inspections and registrations. The "Domino Effect" goes on and on. The noise ordinance also conveniently leaves out loud cars and pickups (Lots of them running straight pipes here) The only LOUD, in my view, that saves lives, is a loud colored helmet (mine is school bus yellow) and loud colored jackets. Clashing colors are best. The yellow helmet on a green bike is garish, to say the least.

I'll admit my pipe is loud (about the same as a stock on a 600rr or gsxr), but I respect people around me and in neighborhoods (espc at night). I was always really worried about my bike being way to loud until I see harleys pass me. That type of sound is just retarded and there is no call for that loud of a bike (My bike is no where near that loud). But when I go through my neighborhood im always in the highest gear / lowest rpm to hold down the sound. At night I always ride as quiet as possible no matter where I am.

I just want my stock muffler to be quieter. :D

Besides, what's stopping exhaust manufacturers from putting on a fake EPA label? How does the law catch people doing modifications on their stock exhaust?

Yeah, there is a difference between a well made pipe and an ebay joint. I have a full yosh system and I thought it was loud until some harley guys passed me. Harleys are legal and nobody seems to complain about them, so I doubt anyone has a problem with my little 250.

A pipe from ebay or a D&D (cheaper) pipe would be much louder than mine. When I got my f4i the PO had some shorty GP style ebay exhaust on it (pretty much just a tip) so it was essentially running open headers. I shortly after that put the stocker back on because it was too loud, and I haven't heard any bikes (besides harleys) around here that were as loud as mine when I first got it. Maybe the problem is worse in CA or elsewhere? Either that or people complain more there!

While it's kinda silly for every officer to be issued a dB meter and be doing field tests on every Harley, (although I bet it could be built into the squad car for use when both vehicles are stationary) I totally support reasonable noise regulations for all vehicles, regardless of the number of wheels.

I also disagree that loud pipes save lives, but I kinda wish my bike was a little louder. At high speeds and high revs, I have trouble hearing the engine over the wind, especially through earplugs. What little sound gets through is 'felt' more than heard, and I seem to glance at the tach more often.

Maybe I don't understand the issue fully, but wouldn't that just be another redundant law? I thought it was technically already illegal, but rarely enforced. Someone in the know, please educate me. I have actually been curious about this issue.

BTW: Kudos to the AMA.

I also disagree that loud pipes save lives

I am unfortunately one of those that think that loud pipes save lives... so feel free to educate me otherwise.

I don't know how many of you have experienced California traffic on the freeway. It's literally bumper to bumper maybe going 5-15mph. Bikes in CA are allowed to lane split (technically called lane sharing). I check my mirrors regularly and you would not believe how frequently I get surprised by a bike with stock exhaust zips by at 25/30 mph between lanes because I had no idea they were coming. On the other hand every rider that has modified exhaust or is a Harley, I hear in the distance which gives me an opportunity to shift to one side of my lane to give the rider extra room.

If they want to make a law that regulates noise levels for a motorcycle, they need to do something about the fart cans on the backs of riced out Hondas. It is much more common for me to be woken up in the middle of the night by one of those cars than a motorcycle.

I know nothing about lane splitting (not legal here), but are they supposed to be lane splitting doing 25/30 over to begin with?

Maybe I don't understand the issue fully, but wouldn't that just be another redundant law? I thought it was technically already illegal, but rarely enforced. Someone in the know, please educate me.

The difference is that under current law you can use any muffler as long as it is under the states decibel limits. The only way to really enforce it is with db meters. The new law would require that motorcycles have mufflers with DOT certification stickers. Quiet or not a muffler would be illegal without the proper sticker.

I know nothing about lane splitting (not legal here), but are they supposed to be lane splitting doing 25/30 over to begin with?

There is no specific law for how fast they are allowed to go while lane splitting the CHP website says "Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner."

I usually see riders going by about 10mph over what traffic is going (...I wasn't quite clear in my post), but then again I see some that zip by faster.

The difference is that under current law you can use any muffler as long as it is under the states decibel limits. The only way to really enforce it is with db meters. The new law would require that motorcycles have mufflers with DOT certification stickers. Quiet or not a muffler would be illegal without the proper sticker.

I thought it was a CA emissions thing. My pipe has a stamp that says it is illegal to "tamper" with the exhaust system in any way.

I ♥ my EPA Exhaust.

Everyone wants to play "racer dude" on the street... how about going to real track to play racer dude, instead?


You cant play racer dude at our track:

The AMA, major race organization, and JENNINGSGP enforce a noise regulation of 104db for Motorcycles. Bikes exceeding 104db will not be allowed on the track.



Gotta do it on the street :)

I thought it was a CA emissions thing. My pipe has a stamp that says it is illegal to "tamper" with the exhaust system in any way.

Doc, The problem is that our Ninja has two catalytic converters. By law, you are not allowed to remove a catalytic converter on any vehicle. That is an emissions issue. The noise issue is something altogether different and is regulated by the states. In Maine the acceptable level will be 62db at 50 Feet at quarter throttle. I don't have a problem with that. The Ninja is a bit "buzzy" sounding, but for a 250, it sounds ferocious. Compare it to other 250cc bikes. I like the stock muffler. It does get somewhat louder with time as the packing wears. I have a Ninja 250 go by my house every day on his way to work and back---going about 40mph. It sounds pretty nice to me. I would like to think that the Kawa engineers put a lot of thought into the 250---all of them. They would really not like to screw up their best selling bike.

The only thing that needs to be audibly loud on a motorcycle is the horn. It's there specifically as a safety device. However, almost all OEM horns on motorcycles sound comical when used in an empty room and are useless in traffic, and that really annoys me. When I'm in traffic and I push the horn button, the vehicles around me should be able to hear it clearly, and the only reason I can hear it at all is because I know I'm pushing the button.

I know that it's fairly easy to upgrade the horn, and that is on my "to do" list for all of our bikes. It still bothers me that the typical OEM horn equipment is only up to minimum standard as a legality, rather than something loud enough to have a useful effect as a safety device.

Every time I hear "campaigning" from the loud-pipes-save-lives folks, that it's their right to annoy people, I don't know what to do. Don't they realize that the people that they're annoying are voters, and that there's a lot more of them than us?!? That's the kind of situation that can get nasty laws passed to control situations where common sense used to do just fine.

What's really comical is when I hear the loud-pipes, and the helmets-are-dangerous, "safety" arguments coming from the same person, almost in the same breath.

:soapbox:

OK, I'm done now.

Isn't there an EPA or somesuch compliance spiel stamped into our cans? Just don't put on a fugly aftermarket exhaust and you'll be fine...

Doc, The problem is that our Ninja has two catalytic converters. By law, you are not allowed to remove a catalytic converter on any vehicle. That is an emissions issue. The noise issue is something altogether different and is regulated by the states. In Maine the acceptable level will be 62db at 50 Feet at quarter throttle. I don't have a problem with that. The Ninja is a bit "buzzy" sounding, but for a 250, it sounds ferocious. Compare it to other 250cc bikes. I like the stock muffler. It does get somewhat louder with time as the packing wears. I have a Ninja 250 go by my house every day on his way to work and back---going about 40mph. It sounds pretty nice to me. I would like to think that the Kawa engineers put a lot of thought into the 250---all of them. They would really not like to screw up their best selling bike.

So if the state is primarily concerned with db, and feds emissions (removal of cat.), wouldn't that make it illegal in every state to install an aftermarket pipe, assuming it doesn't have a cat in it?

So if the state is primarily concerned with db, and feds emissions (removal of cat.), wouldn't that make it illegal in every state to install an aftermarket pipe, assuming it doesn't have a cat in it?

Depends. Some states don't have inspections and/or emmissions. But yes, technically it is illegal in some states.

Depends. Some states don't have inspections and/or emissions. But yes, technically it is illegal in some states.

If it is a Fed law, and some states don't have inspections, I would interpret it as those states aren't enforcing the Fed law... which is OK by me. I'm no legal expert, but it sounds like a jurisdictional issue to me.

I just checked the stamp on my pipe (ugly thing they do there), and confirmed it is referring to db. I had misunderstood, and thought I remembered it referring to emissions.

I spoke to a friend who owns a shop specializing in mufflers. Here is his take on the matter. This, he says, applies in the majority of our states. As a shop, he is NOT allowed to remove a catalytic converter or he will lose his business license. If you come to the shop, and for some reason, your catalytic converter is gone, he may install a muffler without the converter. (Catalytic converters get stolen and are sold to scrap yards for the Platinum in them) They are also very expensive. Of course, YOU, can do almost anything. Were I to change my exhaust, I would change the whole thing--headers and all, and would keep the entire stock system in storage in case things got dicey with the authorities later. You can then always retrofit. Personally, I like things quiet. It is ironic that The United Bikers of Maine--whose motto is, "Let those who ride decide" are now actively endorsing "Pipe discipline" It is inevitable that the government, state and federal, will come down on the noise issue. It has really gotten out of hand. I doubt whether we will be able to turn this around. There are too many laws already in committees and in the works. The great philosopher Pogo said, "We have found the enemy--and it is us"

That clears things up... thanks.

My mustang is pretty damn loud... I drown out most motorcycle noise...

but then again last time i got pulled over for loud pipes on my car... it was because the officer was a mustang owner and wanted to check out my car... he was impressed with the nitrous system that was hooked up at the time ;)

While we are on the subject of motor vehicles and noise, lets get the powers that be to do something about the racket that comes from vehicles disguised as someones music. When I am sitting at a stoplight and someone 2 lanes over has a stereo that is causing my teeth to vibrate, there is something wrong with that.

nb

While we are on the subject of motor vehicles and noise, lets get the powers that be to do something about the racket that comes from vehicles disguised as someones music. When I am sitting at a stoplight and someone 2 lanes over has a stereo that is causing my teeth to vibrate, there is something wrong with that.

nb

I sympathize with you on this.... I really do, and am also very annoyed by this. But regardless of the subject, we should always ALSO be considering how much government control/intrusion we should allow/endure. So whatever the potential law, we should also consider the prudence and consequences of said law, including the potential for sliding down that slippery slope.

While we are on the subject of motor vehicles and noise, lets get the powers that be to do something about the racket that comes from vehicles disguised as someones music. When I am sitting at a stoplight and someone 2 lanes over has a stereo that is causing my teeth to vibrate, there is something wrong with that.

nb

as far as I know, Hawaii still has the "boom box" law on the books. :)

as far as I know, Hawaii still has the "boom box" law on the books. :)

This is one I like....
It is the kind of situation where one person can ruin the fun for everyone else. I HATE going to the beach, only to listen to someone else's music!

The boom box law was written to address the car stereos with absurd subwoofer volumes as they traveled down the road, disturbing residents.

Interesting... I don't know if it applies to "noisemakers" on the beach. :)

sorry for the hijack. :o

Yeah, I knew you where probably actually talking about cars.... I expanded on the thought a bit, so it was I that am responsible for the origional 7500.

From a press release issued by American Motorcyclist Association:

PICKERINGTON, Ohio -- A new California law requires street motorcycles registered in the state and built on or after Jan. 1, 2013, to have an exhaust system label certifying the motorcycles meet federal sound limits, the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) reports.

On Sept. 28, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law Senate Bill 435, sponsored by Sen. Fran Pavey (D-Agoura Hills). While motorcycle manufacturers have been complying with the federal law since it was effective in 1983, the new law now makes it a state crime to operate any motorcycle registered in the state that was built on or after Jan. 1, 2013, that doesn't have a federal Environmental Protection Agency exhaust system sound emissions label.

In addition, the law requires aftermarket exhaust systems made on or after Jan. 1, 2013, to display the EPA sound emissions label, and therefore applies to individuals who seek to replace the exhaust system on affected streetbikes.

To view the legislation, see http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_0401-0450/sb_435_bill_20100928_chaptered.html.

Thousands of motorcyclists utilized the AMA website at AmericanMotorcyclist.com first to oppose the bill, and then to urge Schwarzenegger to reject it.

AMA Western States Representative Nick Haris expressed major concerns about the new law.

"Many EPA labels are very difficult to locate on motorcycles," Haris said. "This law could lead to a flurry of tickets for motorcyclists who have legal exhaust systems with EPA labels on their machines that can't be easily seen. It's unreasonable to expect a law enforcement officer to easily locate an EPA label, and it's simply unfair to expect a motorcycle owner to partially dismantle an exhaust system along the roadside to prove the label exists."

Violators face fines of up to $100 for a first offense and up to $250 for subsequent offenses. Judges have the discretion to dismiss the fine for first-time offenders if the violation is corrected.

Also, a violation is considered a secondary offense, meaning a police officer can't stop a motorcyclist solely because the officer believes the motorcyclist is breaking the sound emissions label law.

"Requiring that a motorcycle display a readily visible EPA label isn't the appropriate way to address concerns about excessive motorcycle sound, which the AMA has pointed out repeatedly," Haris said. "The only objective way to determine whether a motorcycle complies with sound laws is for properly trained personnel to conduct sound level tests using calibrated meters and an agreed-upon testing procedure."

In 1972, Congress passed the federal Noise Control Act, which required the EPA to set sound standards for a number of products. It took several years, but the EPA eventually wrote rules affecting all new motorcycles sold in the U.S. beginning in 1983.

Those regulations, which still stand today, required that all street-legal motorcycles be limited to 83 decibels at that time, with a stricter, 80-decibel limit imposed beginning in 1986.

The AMA has long maintained a position of strong opposition to excessive motorcycle sound. In September 2009, the AMA developed model legislation for use by cities and states seeking a simple, consistent and economical way to deal with sound complaints related to on-highway motorcycles within the larger context of excessive sound from all sources.

The model legislation offers an objective method to evaluate motorcycle sound based on the Society of Automotive Engineers' (SAE) J2825 standard, "Measurement of Exhaust Sound Pressure Levels of Stationary On-Highway Motorcycles." For more information, click here: http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/legisltn/Model_On_Highway_Sound_Ordinance.pdf.

About the American Motorcyclist Association
Since 1924, the AMA has protected the future of motorcycling and promoted the motorcycle lifestyle. AMA members come from all walks of life, and they navigate many different routes on their journey to the same destination: freedom on two wheels. As the world's largest motorcycling rights organization, the AMA advocates for motorcyclists' interests in the halls of local, state and federal government, the committees of international governing organizations, and the court of public opinion. Through member clubs, promoters and partners, the AMA sanctions more motorsports competition and motorcycle recreational events than any other organization in the world. AMA members receive money-saving discounts from dozens of well-known suppliers of motorcycle services, gear and apparel, bike rental, transport, hotel stays and more. Through its support of the Motorcycle Hall of Fame Museum, the AMA preserves the heritage of motorcycling for future generations. For more information, please visit AmericanMotorcyclist.com.

You guys in Khalifornia better not vote Arnie back into office. :mad:

...and so it starts. :(

You guys in Khalifornia better not vote Arnie back into office. :mad:

...and so it starts. :(

Can't... 2nd term. Unfortunately what we have coming down the pipe is likely to be worse. Thankfully he can't run for Pres. though.

i have no problem with the law, i think it's mainly aimed at harleys and cheap slash cut exhaust mods. Laguna already has a strict stock only exhaust rule pretty much. Unfortunately i think the manufacturers have been retarding the stock exhausts expecting people to change or modify them.

i think it's mainly aimed at harleys and cheap slash cut exhaust mods.

maybe so, but the law can be applied to anyone on two wheels.

btw, do you know where the EPA stamp for your muffler is located just in case you're stopped?

my bike isn't made after 2013 so it doesn't matter.

maybe so, but the law can be applied to anyone on two wheels.

btw, do you know where the EPA stamp for your muffler is located just in case you're stopped?

There is already a Fed. EPA stamp on the side of my stock pipe (lists 80db), so I don't know what the point of this new law is anyways.

my bike isn't made after 2013 so it doesn't matter.

never planning to buy another new bike in the future? :)

There is already a Fed. EPA stamp on the side of my stock pipe (lists 80db), so I don't know what the point of this new law is anyways.

my guess is that it gives local law enforcement a tool to interpret sound levels arbitrarily.

well it's also a secondary violation, meaning i would have to be caught doing something illegal already to prompt an inspection of my decibel level, cant just be pulled over for suspicion of having too loud of pipe, and i think the "sticker" is just so they dont have to issue decibel meters to all the patrol officers in california

I think it is really about the increasing choke-hold of control.

From the current issue of Sport Rider magazine

It's been a no-no in the USA since 1970. I'd bet this is just a way to raise money. Make it a state law and collect fines.

I know, but it's coming back again. Stronger this time.

Ha! My issue has been folded that exact way on that exact page for about a week, sitting in my tank bag for me to finish reading it when I get the chance. :)

Is there a similar restriction for cars and jacked-up trucks? There are a lot of after-market pipes on these as well and I doubt that they are EPA approved.

It's sad to see laws like this popping up. But we can blame those who put super loud pipes on their bikes. My 650R has an aftermarket slip on that's just a few Db's louder than stock-doesn't annoy folks when I ride by. I would never consider those earth shakin' exhaust systems on mine. But can't there be a compromise? Can the aftermarket manufacturers make a system that meets EPA requirements that boosts performance and is not too loud? About the loud pipes save lives thing, I feel that it's a bunch of bull. You only hear them when you're behind the bike. If you're in front or on the side, they're much quieter. I think that's a smokescreen they throw up to justify it. Proper riding gear, riding sober, and common sense save lives much more than loud pipes.

Can't help but think that the aftermarket companies will find a way to produce something that would be desired by those who look to change out their "stock" cans. It's the American way:thumbup:

Can't help but think that the aftermarket companies will find a way to produce something that would be desired by those who look to change out their "stock" cans. It's the American way:thumbup:

It already happens with car parts. What this bill will do is kill the small time business owner hoping to sell his own aftermarket system. It will pretty much be like CARB legal exhaust and intakes for cars. The big name brands will have the cash to spend on getting their systems certified while Joe Schmo will just have to sell to customers who don't live in one of these restricted states/cities.

Personally, I have nothing against this bill. I find many of the riders with excessively loud exhausts to be beyond annoying.

this bill will mostly affect sport bike rider since we add them for performance, the cruiser crowds just take off their exhaust, they don't care about going faster, just sound faster....:D

I guess where I am having trouble with this whole issue is --and please enlighten me if I am off base--but don't the aftermarket systems eliminate the catalytic converters? What about tne O2 sensor? Looking at the Ninja, there are two catalytic converters involved. Seems like the emission requirement would be compromised. Around here most of the noise makers are Cruisers, Pickups, and Japaneese cars with spoilers bolted to their trunk lids, blackout windows, and an exhaust pipe that looks like it is about 12" in diameter. There is a guy here with a Screaming Eagle who sets off our car alarm if the car is in the driveway--doesn't do it if it is in the garage--encourages garaging.

That's true Alex, but the bill will also apply to slip-ons too. I haven't read it, but from the article it seems the true target is the noise pollution and not the green house gas pollution. So this would outlaw even the stock pipes with an aftermarket slip-on can.

I think that I will leave well enough alone. The bike I have now, sounds fine to me--so did the Ninja. My stance has always been that I would just as soon ride than futz with the bike. I figure the engineers who designed the bike knew what they were doing--my messing with it would just make the bike less reliable. The bike I have now has FI (my first FI bike) Took it out in 28F and it started right away and ran smoothly. I can see why 250R owners would want FI.

I'm with you on this Alex. After so many years of tinkering with cars, I just want something that runs when I turn the key, or push a button in this case.

I have the RS3 exhaust. It is pretty loud, but I keep the RPMs low in the neighborhood. I also have it because I can't hear a dang thing at speed. To me it is safety for me. Not just that others can hear me, but so I can hear how fast I am going. I need my eyes up and on the road. With the stock exhaust, I was constantly checking my speed, and my eyes were not on the road as much. So I need the exhaust to be loud to hear (what speed the engine is at) over the wind and tire noise created by all the SUV's, trucks, and 18-wheelers that I share the street with.

I'm not trying to tick people off, I'm wanting to hear how fast I am going so I can keep my eyes on the road and not on my speedo needle.

I'm with you on this Alex. After so many years of tinkering with cars, I just want something that runs when I turn the key, or push a button in this case.

Cars are really difficult to tinker with these days because one practically needs a degree in engineering to do anything.
Back in the old days, I had a Lotus 7 with a Cortina engine. That was a fun car to tinker with. It was an absolute terror on the autocross circuit.

Looking at the Ninja manual, it has two catalytic converters--one in the muffler. I guess a slip on would just eliminate one.

Cars are really difficult to tinker with these days because one practically needs a degree in engineering to do anything.


LOL, it was good to get rid of the breaker points :)

I have to say that I feel pretty strongly about loud-ass straight pipes on bikes (or anything for that matter). We just recently moved however, our old house was kinda in the country. We had mostly Amish neighbors. Our road was a fun twisty road through pretty countryside and am I sure that every redneck Harley d-bag within 50 miles would ride past our house on the weekends. We must have been on a map for local rides because these guys would come by all day long and tear up the valley with their noise. It was so bad that I would have voted for some sort of noise ordinance in the township. It made it hard to enjoy just being in yard on a nice day in the country. These super loud wet fart machines with their fake biker jackets, do-rags and the “This is uMerica and I got the right to take crap on your lawn with my stupid over chromed rattling fart bike” attitude.

I think that your freedoms cease to exist when you impose on my freedom to be on my own property and not be assaulted by your noise. This simple fact made it easier to make the decision to move.

BTW, if you ever want to go to a nice little artsy town in PA/NJ go to New Hope. It’s right on the Delaware River. Oh wait. Do not go to New Hope on a nice summer day on the weekend. Last time I was there it was overrun with loud ass bikes lining the streets. It was so loud that you could not have a conversation or even hear yourself think. Here is a town that thrives on outdoor cafes and restaurants and you would be crazy to sit outside.

I am sure that there are plenty of people who will think I am a POS. Why don’t you tell me where you live so I can come by your house at 2 AM with a drum kit and sit in your yard (I can’t play the drums so it will not be good). What, you don’t like that?

Bottom line is I think that most of the pushback is from the guys with no exhaust.
I know I am picking on Harleys a lot and this of course is a sweeping generalization. Most Harley riders are great people and they obviously have more money than me to spend on a bike… But damn, get a muffler! If I remember correctly one of Harley’s selling points years ago was the quiet exhaust. Rant much? Sorry…

I feel the same as you towards the loud Harley's and such. My neighbor has a bagger and straight pipes on it. When he starts it, you can hear it in the bedroom (back of the house). He lives across the street and down one house. So his is pretty loud. Mine is loud when I first start it, then I kill the RPM to about 2k. When I leave the house I keep the RPM's as low as possible so I don't disturb anyone. I had a friend ride on it and my bike really isn't all that loud. Once you get about 20ft away, it is very quiet compared to my neighbor's Harley. I also feel the need to rant about the sportbikes sporting that loud GP exhaust system. Those things are VERY loud. I got blown by on my motorcycle by a gixxer 1000 with a GP kit. I couldn't hear my exhaust over his.

I think they need to crack down on dB's, but not harshly. Keep it at (for instance) 95dB or less, anything over is not allowed....or something like that. No need to only have CARB approved, stock exhaust quiet, or any crap like that. Let the people mod their toys, but within reason.

That crazy senator tried to have the bikes smog every 2 years just like cars. Politicians should be given psych evals before they're eligible for elections. That would definitely thin out the herd.

That crazy senator tried to have the bikes smog every 2 years just like cars.

Not really a big deal, unless you ripped all the smog crap off your bike :confused:

True, but I guess many view the amount of fuel a bike burns compared to a car too. Since bikes typically burn much less than a car, therefore they are less of an environmental issue.


...I had a big rant typed about my dislike of big vehicles, but I'll just leave it at that. No point hijacking a thread. :D

Honestly, EPA should do more to discourage big vehicle usage unless required for commercial use. Encouraging, maybe even giving incentives, the picking of smaller and more fuel efficient vehicles...motorcycles included. That would do more good than just smog testing bikes left and right. Just think of how many motorcycles are out there compared to cars. Makes more sense to chase the majority...

I'm all for it .. i cringe everytime i hear the BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Buh buh BLAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! buh buh BLAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! .. wish they would do this clear across the US.

I make it a point to not wave at these people when I ride past them.

Not really a big deal, unless you ripped all the smog crap off your bike :confused:

Not sure about your state, but here in CA where smogging is already really strict, it's quite expensive to get smogged. The state gets a cut of the smog fees too. It's also a hassle because it's not just a sniffer test, but a visual, AND functioning test. IE, timing has to be in spec, etc. So, even if you have all your smog equipment in place, that doesn't guarantee you'll pass. If you rejet your carbs for instance, making your bike run richer, it may fail to pass. Same thing with installing an aftermarket exhaust which removes the catalytic converters. Mods that motorcyclists take for granted now would suddenly become illegal.

Mark, CA has a gas guzzler tax on large SUV's, so they do try in some small way to discourage large vehicle use, but it's usually not an advertised fee. The EPA actually doesn't do that much in terms of air pollution from cars. It's mostly handled by the state's commission.

Tri, If we motorcyclists don't police ourselves on this issue, the politicians will invariably step up to the plate and ram their solution (which will invariably be based on no experience with motorcycles) I remember back in the 70s (And this is a true story) when there was a gasoline shortage and everybody was being charged usage fees, there was a congressman (a power boater) who felt that sailboaters were not paying their share of the gasoline tax. He ACTUALLY proposed a tax on Dacron (the material used in sailmaking) This clown was from Oxford, MD. He was laughed off the congress floor. Let's hope that we motorcyclists do not get stuck with legislation passed by another one of these brilliant intellects.

Not sure about your state, but here in CA where smogging is already really strict, it's quite expensive to get smogged. The state gets a cut of the smog fees too. It's also a hassle because it's not just a sniffer test, but a visual, AND functioning test. IE, timing has to be in spec, etc. So, even if you have all your smog equipment in place, that doesn't guarantee you'll pass. If you rejet your carbs for instance, making your bike run richer, it may fail to pass. Same thing with installing an aftermarket exhaust which removes the catalytic converters. Mods that motorcyclists take for granted now would suddenly become illegal.


Been there done that, lived out in Cali for 34 years. Wasnt really a big deal on getting a cert for my vehicle. Would just run another car twice, second time with my info ;) After not being a mechanic, was a bitch twice a year putting all the crap on for it to pass. Nice cam shaft really made it a little tough :rolleyes:
No biggy thou...... just play the game :)

Tri, If we motorcyclists don't police ourselves on this issue, the politicians will invariably step up to the plate and ram their solution (which will invariably be based on no experience with motorcycles) I remember back in the 70s (And this is a true story) when there was a gasoline shortage and everybody was being charged usage fees, there was a congressman (a power boater) who felt that sailboaters were not paying their share of the gasoline tax. He ACTUALLY proposed a tax on Dacron (the material used in sailmaking) This clown was from Oxford, MD. He was laughed off the congress floor. Let's hope that we motorcyclists do not get stuck with legislation passed by another one of these brilliant intellects.

I agree, but it's not going to happen. Too many people out there who believe in "don't tread on me." Until it goes into law, people will try to get away with whatever they can. Having someone not in a position of authority telling others that what they're doing is causing a problem doesn't mean squat.

Coming from someone that lives in a state that has had this for a while now, it hasn't really stopped many people around here for putting on aftermarket exhausts. I still have the stock exhaust but I know numerous people that have aftermarkets. As the article says they are supposed to only check it if they stop you for something else, but that isn't true. One time this summer they had a checkpoint stopping only motorcycles to make sure their exhaust was stock. That saw some nice heated results from motorcyclists here. I've had friends pulled over and ticketed for speeding or something of that nature and the cop didn't bother checking out the exhaust. While it seems annoying its something that right now still isn't forced heavily.

When I was young I never liked harleys because they were almost always excessively loud (and not exciting looking) bikes, while almost everything else I saw was relatively quiet. I however don't really care to much about noise as long as it isn't excessive. I'm surprised some people aren't deaf from the loud straight pipe bikes they ride with no helmet or earplugs. I agree with apex let people have there fun within reason.

So I heard that next year they might start smog cheking motorcycles. My motor mechanic teacher told the whole class this. He's also real old school guyand knows that they been talk bout this for years, and they are getting close to doing it, maybe next use. Lol then said we are all ****ed with out after market ehausts do modding out emissons control. Also that along with this they plan on enforcing the noise controlbecause our bikes are beautifully loud:-) . All this will lead to big fat fines$ aw this broke country of ours..

What do you guys think and know about this "law"?

There's no law that leads to smog checks for motorcycles. The direction that things are moving, it's not unexpected that it might happen at some point. But right now there is no law.

The law that did pass was called SB435. It states that any motorcycle produced as of Jan 1, 2013, to have an exhaust system with a stamp saying it passed noise emission standards. Basically, the EPA stamp that is on all OEM bikes. So if you have a 2013 or later bike, and you put an aftermarket exhaust that is not certified, you can get a ticket. First offense is supposed to be $100, second $250, and it goes up from there.

We use to get tickets back in the 70's and 80's in Cali for modded exhaust's...
Was just a fix it ticket..

Its a real work of art i only wished it came out this year. :[ Cheers to all the non californias that dont have to deal with the stupid laws :[

Ruslan - I'm not sure you understand the new law. The law applies to the year of the bike, not the exhaust. Any bike sold before Jan 1, 2013, is not subject to the restriction. You can put on this exhaust on your bike whether you get it this month, next month, or 3 years from now.

Ruslan - I'm not sure you understand the new law. The law applies to the year of the bike, not the exhaust. Any bike sold before Jan 1, 2013, is not subject to the restriction. You can put on this exhaust on your bike whether you get it this month, next month, or 3 years from now.

so wut ur saying is...

I need to go finance every bike I'll want in the next 6 years and bring them home right now?

Well merry christmas to me

What i read was bike or exhaust need epa noise badge made after 2013 so it would be easier to fight the new ticket if made this year for something like a fix it ticket instead of fine.

Here's the law:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_0401-0450/sb_435_bill_20100928_chaptered.html

SB 435, Pavley. Vehicles: pollution control devices.
(1) Existing federal regulations require a motorcycle manufactured
on and after January 1, 1983, and exhaust emission systems for those
motorcycles, to meet specified noise emissions standards and require
that a label be affixed onto the motorcycle or exhaust emission
system indicating that the motorcycle or exhaust emission system
meets the noise emissions standards.
This bill would make it a crime for a person to park, use, or
operate a motorcycle, registered in the state, that is manufactured
on and after January 1, 2013, or a motorcycle, registered in the
state, with aftermarket exhaust system equipment that is manufactured
on or after January 1, 2013, that does not have the above label, and
would make a violation of this provision punishable by a specified
fine, thereby imposing a state-mandated local program by creating a
new crime. The bill would require the person to whom a notice to
appear is issued, or against whom a complaint is filed, for the above
violation, to provide proof of correction. The bill would authorize
a court to dismiss the penalty imposed for a first violation if the
person produces proof of correction to the satisfaction of the court.

I thought it was just aimed at the motorcycle itself, but it does look like there is a second clause that is aimed at any motorcycle, with aftermarket exhaust components themselves that are manufactured after January 1st. That's unfortunate.

just register it out of state...

also how can they tell when it was manufactured?

do manufacturers have to stamp a plaque and rivet to the exhaust?

The officer subjective portion?

SECTION 1. Section 27202.1
A violation of this section shall be considered a
mechanical violation and a peace officer shall not stop a motorcycle
solely on a suspicion of a violation of this section. A peace officer
shall cite a violation of this section as a secondary infraction.

Don't break any other rules of the road and/or you should be fine(d) :p?

just register it out of state...

also how can they tell when it was manufactured?

do manufacturers have to stamp a plaque and rivet to the exhaust?

They could fine you for new law and you fight it with your proof of purchase this year

The officer subjective portion?
Don't break any other rules of the road and/or you should be fine(d) :p?

Nice

The officer subjective portion?



Don't break any other rules of the road and/or you should be fine(d) :p?

are you saying they can throw the book at you if they feel like it?

They could fine you for new law and you fight it with your proof of purchase this year

seems like a waste of court time.

are you saying they can throw the book at you if they feel like it?

When you've done something else wrong (other VCs) and they feel you have a loud pipe w/o labels. I guess we'll just have to see come new years under what circumstances invoke 27202.1.

I'm angry and happy at the same time :D :mad:

Just as with all of Komiefornia's new and stupid laws, either follow them and stop your whining or move the f@*k out of California!

I think they should keep whining, and start overturning.
Otherwise they continue to lose.

I think they should keep whining, and start overturning.
Otherwise they continue to lose.

They won't.

gsxrninja250 might be interested in this thread: Chris - a secondary offense means that the officer must have another reason to pull you over. However, this does not mean you can hide from this law just because it's not a primary offense.

If you have a loud exhaust and the officer wants to pull you over for it, there's many other primary infractions that will get pulled you over without much effort from the officer; non lit plate, integrated turn signals, rolled stop sign, speeding (even just a little bit), non-use of turn signal, etc etc. You'd be surprised at how many infractions we accidentally make in an average day of driving.

They won't.

Not saying they will, or will succeed.
Just saying they need to try...

As a CA resident, none of this is a surprise. You can expect to loose more and more freedoms every year, not to mention higher and higher taxes. The [other] sad thing is CA is now supposed to be the example for the other states (can't remember what the actual language was). I think that came down from obama's epa last term.

Typically I'm fine with the EPA actions. Wanna put emissions stuff on my bike, change the idle ignition angle, and block off my idle mix screws like the CA-spec bikes have? Go for it. I'm fine with that.

But when you consider how small the impact of motorcycle traffic is, it seems to me like they're working awfully hard on something that makes up such a small percentage of the problem. That doesn't make sense to me.

In my eyes, they should go after the trucking industry. Maybe I'm just ignorant/uninformed/whatever, but when I see dump trucks and semi's driving through town and spewing sh!t all over the place, (it just hangs there and makes my contacts burn my eyes) it angers me that at one point, I got a fix-it ticket from the E-check people because my aging civic failed the emissions test by 4 ppm or something like that.

It just seems like they could be chasing vehicles that would have a more substantial impact, that's all.

gsxrninja250 might be interested in this thread: Chris - a secondary offense means that the officer must have another reason to pull you over. However, this does not mean you can hide from this law just because it's not a primary offense.

If you have a loud exhaust and the officer wants to pull you over for it, there's many other primary infractions that will get pulled you over without much effort from the officer; non lit plate, integrated turn signals, rolled stop sign, speeding (even just a little bit), non-use of turn signal, etc etc. You'd be surprised at how many infractions we accidentally make in an average day of driving.

I understand the whole secondary offense thing, but when the bill first came up, they wanted it a first deg offense, and it would have been a misdamenor and would get you a point on your license. But they backed it off, they also wanted to make it where the bike has to be smogged, but that failed, so they tweaked it into a db limit. Its cause californias beach citys whined about all the "loud" bikes. So we get nailed, yet the coffee can tuners get away with a exhaust you can hear a mile down the road. Gotta love california!

They have an awful lot of power for being non-elected.

They have an awful lot of power for being non-elected.

Only because the people let them...

Only because the people let them...

Well, yes and no.....

Well, yes and no.....

Probably more yes than no.

I see a couple of issues here...
A. there are a lot more of them voting in candidates that dont understand our position...
B. We are not making our voices heard by contacting the right people..
C. We are not being preemptive in creating legislation that prevents regulation.
D. We are not challenging the regulations at any level...
E. We do not have a lobby that is efficient in campaigning against these issues.

Probably more yes than no.

I see a couple of issues here...
A. there are a lot more of them voting in candidates that dont understand our position...
B. We are not making our voices heard by contacting the right people..
C. We are not being preemptive in creating legislation that prevents regulation.
D. We are not challenging the regulations at any level...
E. We do not have a lobby that is efficient in campaigning against these issues.

I agree with you in theory over reality..... but that might actually make your point.

why does this state mess with everything i love... cars, bikes & guns