I took a spill this morning and would love some advice to make sure this doesn't happen again.

I was minding my own business slowing down for a stop sign and ended up sprawled in some leaves. It happened so fast I don't even know what happened. I loved jumping into leaf piles when I was a kid but those were usually dry and the jump didn't result in scratched fairings and blinker bits flying all over. I am displeased.

Normally, I try to avoid leaves altogether, but there are several places on my commute where they're now a couple of inches thick all over. I was aware of the danger and I thought I had slowed down quite a bit before even touching the brake but apparently that wasn't enough. I only applied front brake and very gently. What more can I do? Is it a good idea to bring feet off the pegs when coming to a stop in a slippery spot? Should I just aim not to use the brake at all and coast to a stop (slope permitting)?

I feel like the n00b that I am.

Yeah, leaves can definitely be slick. I try my damndest to avoid them (like, even if I have to stop on the yellow center line, heh), but yeah it is just a matter of being reeeaaallly careful. It is not impossible, but I'm always surprised how little there is.



Fall is my favorite season, except for the wet leaves all over the road, haha.

Why not use both your brakes? Only using your front would cause uneven braking. Gently applying both would give you more stability. It's just my opinion tho. I'm still new to riding myself and I don't have anywhere that leaves accumulate.

I do tend to favor rear brake in adverse road conditions just because of how quickly the front can slide out from under you.
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I don't have any experience braking on leaves but I imagine it can't be all that different from braking on gravel/tar snakes/metal plates. Downshift and use your engine braking to slow your speed and apply rear brakes.

Slippery leaves are always slippery. That's how they got that name.

Slippery leaves are always slippery. That's how they got that name.


dood, that was very confucius-ish :thumbup:

Slippery leaves are always slippery. That's how they got that name.

No relation to this tho........ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_dick

Slippery leaves are always slippery. That's how they got that name.

What?! I don't understand...

I do tend to favor rear brake in adverse road conditions just because of how quickly the front can slide out from under you.
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I don't have any experience braking on leaves but I imagine it can't be all that different from braking on gravel/tar snakes/metal plates. Downshift and use your engine braking to slow your speed and apply rear brakes.

Is that right? Unfortunately I have no idea whether the front or back slipped. It felt like the whole thing went out from under me. I was in 1st gear probably going 3mph.

I have to admit I'm still confused about braking. I understand that front brake does much more stopping than back. It seems surprisingly easy to lock up the back wheel (as discovered in emergency braking practice) so I'm shy about using back brake when I know I'm in a hazardous situation, though I use it in normal conditions. Is that all wrong? Several people on the recent emergency stopping thread (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60173) also mentioned only using front to avoid back locking. But then again others mentioned front locking consistently. :confused:

I'm not sure if you took an MSF course, but we were taught to always use the front and rear brakes simultaneously for emergency braking... well for all braking really. The key is not to grab the brakes hard, but firm even pressure. You'll find your stopping distance is much shorter than just using the front brake. It will also keep you from being shoved forward.

I have to admit I'm still confused about braking. I understand that front brake does much more stopping than back. It seems surprisingly easy to lock up the back wheel (as discovered in emergency braking practice) so I'm shy about using back brake when I know I'm in a hazardous situation, though I use it in normal conditions. Is that all wrong? Several people on the recent emergency stopping thread (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60173) also mentioned only using front to avoid back locking. But then again others mentioned front locking consistently. :confused:

Nah, you really do want to use both brakes. Be smooth and firm. It's really the best thing to do in a situation like the slippery leaves (obviously the best answer is "don't stop on leaves", right? :lol: But when you do have to, definitely use both brakes.). If I have to stop on something with questionable traction, sometimes I'll also stand on the pegs like it was a dirtbike; it lowers the center of gravity and lets the bike wiggle around under me a little more -- great for things like loose gravel where the bike may not go down if it just needs to wiggle and work itself out.

Back to braking:
While it's way easier to lock the rear, remember that locking the rear isn't really a big deal. If it happens, just stay on the rear brake (DON'T let it up) until the bike is at a complete stop.

Locking the front is a much more potentially-dangerous situation; if your front locks, you *do* want to pump the front brake (let go of the brake and reapply pressure, repeatedly, until the bike stops).

FWIW, I've always used both brakes. I've locked up my rear brakes countless times (mostly on my old SV650S) and have never once locked a front.

Slippery leaves are always slippery. That's how they got that name.

Always get there before I do....:yo:

Nah, you really do want to use both brakes. Be smooth and firm. It's really the best thing to do in a situation like the slippery leaves (obviously the best answer is "don't stop on leaves", right? :lol: But when you do have to, definitely use both brakes.).

Thanks, all. Lesson learned. I did do the MSF course a while ago and as I said, I do generally use both brakes but I get nervous about the back locking up. Sounds like it's not something I should actually be worried about. Time for more practice!

Yes, it is mostly just that if you lock the front for just a second, the front of the bike will likely "tuck" to one side, and splat you face-first onto the ground. With a locked rear, you can often ride it out (though you might go off the road in slick conditions with a pronounced road crown, heh). Really, though, if you are going at a relatively low pace (say, 30 or even 40 mph at that moment) and the rear hasn't stepped out more than a few inches, I wouldn't worry too much about letting off the rear brake. Try to stay in it if you can, but if the bike is relatively strait and you've got your speed down a good bit, I feel there is only a very minor risk compared to plowing into the back of that car in front of you because you couldn't steer :P .

always use both brakes when braking

I have to deal with leaves, grass, hay, needles and what seems to be alot of road kill this year. When I run into these, I normally do all my breaking before hand and just roll over slowly without any brakes a very very light touch of throttle to counter any engine braking.

3mph aye? Am I correct to assume you were in first gear? First gear can give alot of possible lurching. I prefer 2nd as it is smoother at lower speeds and don't jerk around as much.

You should have been able to just roll right on over in 2nd, but dunno each situation is different.

I don't have any experience braking on leaves but I imagine it can't be all that different from braking on gravel/tar snakes/metal plates. Downshift and use your engine braking to slow your speed and apply rear brakes.

I have never ridden on a long stretch of metal. Can you give me a heads up on what to expect? Is it like gravel? Totally loose feeling the entire time?

Only speaking from car experience, but I've seen metal plates on roads when they're doing construction to cover holes they haven't filled yet, or are dropping in pressure plates for lights. They aren't usually polished metal, but don't have the friction that asphalt or concrete does. And if they're wet, you may as well be trying to stop on ice.
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Ouch bummers. As the others have said, both brakes or even rear brakes. I like the rear brakes but I dont really use it for braking necessarily. Moreso for stability. It works great on downhill runs as does engine braking because it doesnt throw you forward and also for smoothing out the power lurches in 1st and even sometimes in 2nd.

Why were you so far down to 1st gear? I rarely use 1st gear because of the surges and also because it's pretty short. I bet you, you could have used 2nd and gone a little faster and still be fine. I'm not sure if i can even balance the bike going that slow.

There are really only two things that would have caused you to slide out like that. Slight turning (or any lean) and front braking, or hard rear braking. Your rear should not slide out from underneath, even on loose surfaces unless you are already leaned over. Front braking on a loose surface is very sensitive to sliding out under the slightest bit of turning/lean.

Crash? :(

Hope your feeling ok Helene.
Bikes natural state of rest is on its side, dont feel bad if it happens once in a while.

always use both brakes when braking

Yeah, GREAT Idea......... NOT

Were your tires warmed up?

Cold tires can really reduce your available traction to control your bike.