Hello,

Ever since I started riding motorcycles a few years ago, there's been something that's always given me some problems. Lets say I pull up to a four-way stop, and want to turn left. As I'm starting out from a stop and turning at the same time, I tend to take the turn wide all the time. Not wide enough to almost hit the curb, but it makes me uncomfortable. I should also say that this only happens with me at slow speeds. What advice can you guys give me on how to fix this?

i had the same issue when i was first started riding. for me it was a confidence thing. i wasn't comfortable at the time leaning the bike over at such low speeds, i always thought the bike would fall over. i would try to turn with just moving the handlebars and i always swung a bit wide. i found for me that if i just trust the bike to not slip out under me, i could lean the bike over quite a bit as long as i had some throttle. for me, i just needed to lean the bike a bit more and tight turns were a piece of cake.

of course everybody situation is a little different, but that was my experience. its amazing how tight these little bikes can turn around when you have confidence in them.

when I first started, I also have problem with u-turns, always put both feet down, took me a few weeks to get over it, advises is to trust your baby , and you'll get over it in no time :)

You've been riding for a few years so I apologize if you know this already: Look where you want to go, and try to practice figure eights. Have you taken the MSF course? We practiced figure eights in an outline of a rectangle. That would seem to help with the slow speed sharp-angled turns. David L. Hough has a some books, Proficient Motorcycling and More Proficient Motorcycling. I thought they were good reads.

Thanks for the help guys, yeah I'm sure if I had more trust in myself and the bike it would be no problem. I guess I REALLY just don't want to wreck my bike, as it's in perfect shape :)

And yes, I have taken the MSF course. Actually in the course, I did very well with low speed cornering and what not. It seems in day-to-day riding, sometimes I don't have any problems and another day I will take all my turns wide. It's like sometimes I just have "off-days".

Go to a big open parking lot. Pratice doing turns, and figure eights. This will help you alot! Thats what I did and it did wonders! Ride safe!

I found that it's harder to do tight turns on the Ninja than it was on the 250 Suzukis and Honda we had in the MSF course. What I do on the Ninja is to sort of let the bike lean over then steer to correct it. It feels like I'm "laying" the bike into the turn. The bars won't turn 90 degrees like on a bicycle so there's no risk of going over the bars.

BTW, I hated The Box in the course. Grrr...

I wonder if this technique would help you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAar19KQK18&feature=channel

Thanks for the help guys, yeah I'm sure if I had more trust in myself and the bike it would be no problem. I guess I REALLY just don't want to wreck my bike, as it's in perfect shape :)

And yes, I have taken the MSF course. Actually in the course, I did very well with low speed cornering and what not. It seems in day-to-day riding, sometimes I don't have any problems and another day I will take all my turns wide. It's like sometimes I just have "off-days".

ahh, so you have rainy days and sunny days too ehh ? :p

I totally almost crashed the other day messing around in the parking lot leaving work. I was doing hard left-hand circles, and when I want to pull out I started to accelerate to straiten up and leave. But the cold engine bogged when I gave it gas, and I totally almost fell over to the inside. I honestly dont know how I stayed on, because my body was halfway off the bike (like, my inside foot was already on its way over the tank before I was conciously able to correct it). I think I clutched the RPMs back up without thinking (years of dirtbiking). Boy would that have been embarassing haha.

But yeah I love doing low-speed riding in parking lots. I can literally get so distracted doing it I will not even notice when my coworkers pull up, heh.
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ahh, so you have rainy days and sunny days too ehh ? :p

Oh yes, it's been cold and rainy here for a few days now. It even rained all day on thanksgiving.

BTW, I hated The Box in the course. Grrr...
Me too. I was good at it, but an embarrassing story goes with it. During the road test, I did the box completely backwards and got tons of points deducted. :D

This guy has some good instructional videos. One thing I can add is [corrected] using rear brake. Basically you can ride the rear brake a little bit while going slow and it helps to keep the bike balanced. Also, the first video is specifically about turning quickly from a stop.

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One thing I can add is trail braking. Basically you can ride the rear brake a little bit while going slow and it helps to keep the bike balanced.

Hi Samer - That isn't trail braking. Trail braking has nothing to do with front or rear brake, it could be either. It refers to staying on the brake while still entering a corner, and trailing the brake pressure off as lean angle gets greater. (more info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking))

What you're describing is simply the use of the rear brake, which as you mentioned, can be especially helpful at slow speed maneuvering. :thumbup:

oops. You are right, the two concepts got incorrectly attached in my head. Thanks Alex. So nix the term, but the procedure of using the rear brake slightly for very slow maneuvering is indeed effective :thumbup:

Yeah, when doing u-turns and such, use the rear brake to slow down and make the make "fall" inward, and use thrust (moderated with the clutch, not the throttle**) to stand the bike up. You can then angle the bars however you need (full lock, for example) and then keep the bike balanced with brake and thrust.


**When doing this, use the clutch to control the amount of torque going to the rear wheel. I will either rapidly and continually blip the throttle, or try to hold a steady constant low-throttle opening, in order to keep the engine producing consistent output without having to worry about it bogging.

A few things that help me are to point my head in the direction where I want to go just as I start moving. Just look there and you will go there! 2nd, when doing low-speed turns like that, don't lean with the bike as you would when going countersteering speeds. Rather lean the bike up under you...just flick it. It will not slide as long as there is nothing on the pavement to make you lose traction. Doing figure 8s with locked bars will help you realize just how tight that baby can turn. Watch someone else do some, and you'll be able to see that the bike isn't leaned nearly as far as we think it is when we're on it! Good luck!

Hello,

Ever since I started riding motorcycles a few years ago, there's been something that's always given me some problems. Lets say I pull up to a four-way stop, and want to turn left. As I'm starting out from a stop and turning at the same time, I tend to take the turn wide all the time. Not wide enough to almost hit the curb, but it makes me uncomfortable. I should also say that this only happens with me at slow speeds. What advice can you guys give me on how to fix this?

Simple question here but what do you do to initiate the turn? You are pulling away from the stop sign so you are rolling on the gas and doing what with the handlebars?

Misti

You mentioned trail braking--something I frequently do. My new bike has the front and rear brakes interconnected--sort of takes trail braking out of the equation. Don't know. I do think that I will do the advanced MSF this spring.

Trail braking is not inherently related to either brake. Again, it just refers to "trailing" off the brakes after the turn has been initiated.
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And yeah I want to do the advanced MSF course also. I might do it before I get new tires so if they have me do a bunch of skidding it wont be so bad haha.
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J, Thanks for clearing that up for me. I usually slow down quite a bit until I can set up my turn. Then the throttle is rolled up gently--a lot more gently on the 700. I do believe that an advanced MSF course in the early spring every couple of years is money well spent.

I also think the beginner course every few years is money well spent (not to mention you can show people up out on the bike! :D ). Reminds you of the things you should be thinking about, that we often forget about. ;)

I still flip through the booklet on occasion to remind myself of things I may have forgotten.

As for your cornering, i think you're entering the turn too soon is all. Wait longer, lean further and then give it the throttle good. As for slow spped maneuvering(?) you use the throttle and control speed with the rear brake. Mucho practice is needed but with the go (throttle) and stop (brakes) you'll learn. Leave the front brake and clutch out of the equation. Happy trails, save riding.

Leave the clutch out of the equation.

This would be simple, except there is one problem. At least with these bikes, on/of throttle is annoyingly jerky and unpredictable. Using the clutch, while adding another skill to master, will ultimately allow for MUCH smoother control of power delivery at low speeds.

This would be simple, except there is one problem. At least with these bikes, on/of throttle is annoyingly jerky and unpredictable. Using the clutch, while adding another skill to master, will ultimately allow for MUCH smoother control of power delivery at low speeds.

I have to agree with J on this one, always remember that the clutch is your friend(My msf instructor told us that every 30 seconds). I've found on the 250 that it's much easier to maneuver if you quickly shift up to second gear after your launch. I find 1st gear on the 250 to be rather small and hard to handle. In second gear, if you were to lean the bike too much during a low speed turn, then you can throttle it out instead of being stuck with the low top speed of first and possibly dropping the bike.

No offense but i sort of feel neither one of you have put in the days (not hours) doing this, and if you have, to each their own, i don't kick dead horses. What works for you is the right way. Peace out.

Lol, I am not sure what your point was with that statement. Are you saying there isn't any on/off throttle jerkiness inherent to this bike? And if anything, that we might have not been riding (street) that long, yet still found adding clutchwork to make manuevering easier, should make it clear that it doesn't take a 20-year vet to know using clutch to control wheel thrust during low-speed manuevering effective. In fact, I figured out my first day of parking lot practice that the only way I could consistently make it through the Box Test was to use clutch, because on/off response was simply too jerky, and I know it isn't a throttle control issue because I've been on bikes in some form or another for half my life, a couple of which would kick the rear sideways or toss you off the back at 50mph if you were careless with the throttle.

If you have a good reason for people to do things your way, share it so we can all learn. But, there is no need to flatly dismiss anyone who disagrees with you without providing sound reasoning.

Oh, and those videos posted above are great! I watched them several times before I even got my bike, just so I could start mentally preparing to learn those techniques on a street machine.

No offense but i sort of feel neither one of you have put in the days (not hours) doing this, and if you have, to each their own, i don't kick dead horses. What works for you is the right way. Peace out.

No one enjoys assumptions. I may not own my own bike yet, but I have had my fair share of riding experience (yes, days).:thumbup:

this is some good info i gotta watch all the vids now

One of the reasons for difficulty with low speed maneuvers is that you may be actually going TOO slow. It's difficult to balance the bike at a snail's pace, sometimes if you speed up just a little, these tight turns are actually easier to do. It's important to look through the turn, give it more throttle, press and turn the bars and look where you want to go. Look down at the ground, that's where you'll wind up.

I think maybe you should've mentioned clutching in and out, in and out as well. This is from someone who has a $3k bike, spent several hundred more on top of it, and it still doesn't run right but just won't take "whatever is right for you" as an agreement and let it go.

If you think I'm (well, we're) wrong, tell us why. Your insecurity-driven e-politics and personal attacks aren't going to help anyone with low-speed manuevering. Either you want to contribute, or you just need to feel "right." Which is it?


BTW, technical prowess are operating ability are hardly related. And I know people with $14k 1000CC race bikes who can barely make their way across the parking lot without dragging their feet and wobbling all over. What's your point?

:focus:

It would be on topic if he actually had any justification to tell us we are wrong.

Different strokes for different folks. I rarely use the clutch when maneuvering at low speed, no matter what bike I'm on. I know that some people do find it helpful. No worries either way, whatever works.

I suppose the alternative of keeping the throttle on to some degree, while using the rear brake to control whether the bike is accelerating or deceleration, would accomplish the same thing. Doing that, not only do you never have to worry about drivetrain slack since it is always being tensioned in the same direction, but the on-off throttle issue is bypassed. Either way it does take fine control to do it accurately and precisely, whether you are manipulating the clutch or the rear brake. I can and do use both methods, but started using primarily the clutch for finer control and the brake for more gross control.

Practice!

This will probably just add fuel to the fire, but I was trained to feather the clutch while scooting around in very low speeds in first gear. This was done in addition to riding the rear brake for added stability.

Mind you I only use this technique when I'm basically crawling around in traffic or in a parking lot in first gear where, if I had the clutch fully out, the bike would be at an rpm that would bog the hell out of the engine.

But then again I think that's what the point of that exercise was. If you're going slow enough to bog the engine in 1st gear, it's time to feather that clutch.

usually i just increase throttle through the turn to help stabilize my lean. what i hate is when the bike isnt warmed up yet and the throttle blips out when i roll on it too fast while im turning and almost kills the engine. infact the engine died one time when i was making a left turn from a stop at an intersection. scared the crap out of me but thank god i was quick enough to upright the bike and turn the engine back on to complete my turn :eyebrows:

I think we are talking more like, turning around in a parking spot to face backwards, or turning around in a neighborhood street, etc.

Today when I was parking my bike, I realized I do just drag the rear brake to keep constant tension on it, and then feather the clutch to control thrust.

coming from the world of mountain biking I found this to be a lot less challenging, simple solution: ride a bicycle to work on balance.