So Brakes and Throttle are always addressed in proper turning technique, but never clutch.

I've noticed that I tend to at least partially pull in the clutch when entering a turn to feather in the power as I start the turn. It just seems easier that way. Is this wrong?

Thanks
Bob

you should be done with braking and shifting by the time you apex the turn and be in the proper gear for smooth application of the throttle on exit.

I never use the clutch when exiting the turn on a street bike, but on the dirt bike (offroad), do it all the time to get the bike's revs up for max acceleration which puts the bike into a controlled slide, something I would think you would want to avoid to do while on the street.

Ya. I'm usually only on the clutch entering the turn to transition from braking to rolling the on the throttle.

Thx
Bob

I dunno if it would be considered right or wrong, or simply user choice. I know that on-track, riders often had the clutch slightly disengaged all the way through the corner first on decel, then on accel, to better modulate both the engine braking on the way in and the power application on the way out. In the STAR school folks can get an up-close and personal view of this as I watched Pridmore from a few feet away on the inside of a turn, watching how the clutch was slightly disengaged the whole time.

But that was a few years ago, and with slipper clutches becoming almost ubiquitous on trackbikes, and TC becoming a little more common on the same, I wonder if anybody will be trying to modulate it by hand using the clutch in the future.

okay, then I misread your original post.

Misti gave some great advice in this thread... have you read it?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60184

Cool. So long as what I'm doing isn't a "NOOOO YOU ARE GOING TO KILL YOURSELF IF X HAPPENS" type thing then I'm happy. I only ride street, but I have some nice twisty roads nearby, one with a nice hairpin that you can push really hard.

Thanks guys

Bob

I don't do that for a number of reasons...ok well two reasons:

1. I was trained specifically NOT to do that...so unless I learn why that's a crock of BS I'll continue to NOT do it.

2. The bike feels funny when I clutch in during a turn (I tried it a few times).

The few times that I've managed to execute a near perfect feeling turn, I was on the gas pretty hard every time.

Monkey - yes, if the clutch is all the way in during the turn the bike will freewheel and feel completely awful during the turn. I've had to roll through turns out of gear at high speed (on track) when I flubbed a downshift, and it's a terrible feeling.

In this case I think the OP was talking about feathering the clutch a bit, I.E. letting it slip somewhat to smooth out the transfer of momentum from the wheel to the engine and back again on the other side. Not completely disengaging the clutch.

if you're in the proper gear on exit, you should not need to slip the clutch to get the engine back into the powerband. I can certainly see the value on slipping the clutch at the track, but learning to ride the bike like this on a regular basis on the street is simply not needed and can lead to more problems than it's worth in the long run.

Agreed. :thumbup:

Alex pretty much had it.

Pre apex, pull the clutch all the way in, downshift, and then ease out the clutch to transition from braking to roll on. It feels right when I do it, especially seeing as I'm trying to avoid shifting mid turn so for most street riding it's usually downshift to 3rd or 4th for the turns and I try to downshift as close to the turn as possible.

The big benefit for this in street riding that I can see is that it lets you not have to drop a further gear and wind up the RPMs to get the same powerband. Personally I prefer to keep the RPMs as low as I can, I like 50mpg :D

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some unintended consequences of easing out the clutch. I know that the gyroscopic force from spinning wheels is what holds you up, so turning with the clutch pulled in all the way is bad because of that.

I think I also might be improperly explaining it.

Thx

Bob

The big benefit for this in street riding that I can see is that it lets you not have to drop a further gear and wind up the RPMs to get the same powerband. Personally I prefer to keep the RPMs as low as I can, I like 50mpg :D


I thought I understood what your were talking about until that line.....
It's cool slipping the clutch while slowing down for a corner(where you needed to down shift a couple gears for that corner). But to use the clutch instead of the correct gear and throttle control, sounds a bit crazy.

I thought I understood what your were talking about until that line.....
It's cool slipping the clutch while slowing down for a corner(where you needed to down shift a couple gears for that corner). But to use the clutch instead of the correct gear and throttle control, sounds a bit crazy.

I may still be explaining this wrong. I think my problem is that my logic is based on assumptions of what you would do at the track, though I have never ridden the track. But, I hear people say that they pretty much keep the 250s in high RPMs most of the time. So seeing as I don't want to be bopping through a turn at 10-12k RPM I downshift to 4th or 3rd depending on the speed of the turn. I am fully on the gas, no clutch, by apex, usually before.

So maybe what would be easier would be if someone could in full detail explain what I should be doing with the clutch during a turn.

Thanks
Bob

Oh and to be clear. I don't know if what I am doing is right. The whole point of this thread is a question :D

I've just noticed that threads on proper turning never mention the clutch.

Thanks
Bob

Bob I know exactly what you're talking about because that's how I turn in my car hahaha. I clutch in and feather it at the friction point and slowly let it out while I turn. I tried that a few times on the bike and it just felt kinda weird. It's probably a timing related thing, but the fear of letting out the clutch too fast is just too much for me on the bike. It's compounded by the fact that a bike clutch has a much shorter and more abrupt friction point than a car. Well that's why I don't do it anyway haha.

:thumbup:

Remember to that a slipping clutch = faster clutch plate wear. In the dirt as KKim mentioned above you often use the clutch in turns to keep the revs up. Keep in mind that the apex of a turn in the dirt is often a berm (think banking made of dirt) and there is so much traction there (especially if soft terrain) as well as coming out of the turn and straightening up that a dirt rider will use a bit of clutch to get the revs back up. Also in the dirt (especially with a high powered bike) a rider might choose to run a gear higher and abuse some clutch to make the ride smoother. I don't see where these would make sense on pavement though.

I don't see where these would make sense on pavement though.

I can see a lot of value in this if riding on a track/racing and every ounce of power is needed to beat out the completion. Abusing the machinery is no secret when it comes to winning races. For street riding, I can't see the value of it. If you're riding your bike that hard on the street, it's time to take it to the track.

With dirt bikes, I abuse the hell out of the clutch. Riding a gear higher (second instead of first) in muddy, tight, uphills while slipping/modulating the clutch makes for a less abrupt power delivery and maintains traction. Be aware, I change the oil every ride or two, so the clutch particles that are shed into the oil never get a chance to build and damage the rest of the gears in the transmission/engine lower end. With street bike oil changes at 3-7.5K, I'd say having that stuff in your oil for that long can/will lead to accelerated wear of engine components.

On street i do this also, but more specifically

When approaching a turn and downshifting, i don't shift straight down to the gear required for the turn, i slip the clutch at little. The clutch is fully out before the turn is initiated, its one of those things you do before the turn, like getting your body to one side before the turn.

The benefit is approaching a sharp hairpin or anywhere else you would be braking hard and downshifting (say 5th to 2nd), you can stop the rear wheel skipping on downshifts. I've had that happen and while its not a big deal its better avoided.

That is exactly what a slipper clutch does on track, it lets the clutch slip so that both the engine revs don't hit the roof when downshifting and the rear wheel doesn't skip as a results when it tries to match speed between road and gearbox.

Now I'm not doing it anywhere near as hard as you would with a proper slipper clutch fitted, cause its not a race, but it a useful technique.

You'll notice in MotoGP with proper slipper clutches that Rossi still uses his left hand on corner entries, he feels he can help out the slipper clutch and keep better control this way.

I don't think its abusing the clutch at all, but its my clutch to burn so far its done 7500+ miles without any sign of failing, for me it worth it. Its a nice felling when you go from 5th to 2nd, and slip the clutch to hold the engine revs at about 8,000rpm all the time braking, as the bike gets closer to that speed you want (8,000 rpm in 2nd) you can feel it through the clutch and modulate the amount of engine braking. Eventually just before you turn, it all hooks up and feels like the perfect gear/speed/stability for the turn.