There are more and more rumors coming out about Yamaha introducing a 250cc sportbike. I'd welcome it, if for no other reason to keep Kawasaki honest about pricing and to push for aftermarket developments in the 250 class. I've attached pics of the rumored 250 as well as yamaha's current R125 (not available in the US).

I would really like to see something like this come along, especially if it had a tiny 4 cyl. A small twin can be quite entertaining as we all know. My prediction is if it's a 4cyl it will probably be very high priced, over 6k for sure. Yamaha's wr250x is overpriced for a tubby underpowered "motard", does not even have the actual WR 5 valve motor. Yamaha's have allways cost more than Kawasaki's anyway.

About that 125.. I had the chance to ride a Honda CBR150 a while back, as it turns out the production of those bikes is Thailand.. It was a liquid cooled 4 valve single, that was neat but it was stuffed into a steel frame, would have been nice to see it with an alluminum frame with USD forks, however it was entertaining (did a loop to the coast and back) overall impression.. cheap and 2nd tier Honda, I think I have a pic. It would be great if the Japanese would sell the actual "good" 250s in this country since a 125 two stroke is out of the question..

Here's the CBR150

I have a very close friend who has been in the MC business since 1950. He was a Triumph and NSU dealer. I worked for him in 1958 and got my first bike from him--a 1956 NSU Special Max 250. He became a Yamaha dealer when Yamaha first came to the US--In fact he still sells Yamaha and Triumph among other stuff. He tried out my Ninja last week and lamented the fact that Yamaha and others had really missed the boat. He feels that the US is ready for a performance 250 for urban travel. This is a guy who knows motorcycles and the market. Back in the late 50`s his best selling bikes were the 200cc Triumph Cub and the 250cc NSU for those of us who used motorcycles for trnsportation. With the escalsting costs of energy and concerns for the environment, this class of people (and market) wil re-emerge. Kawasaki was on the mark since 1986 and is ahead of everybody else in the 250cc market. In just urban transportation, the Honda Rebel is a good buy. It does, however fall short in long distance highway travel. One needs to go to a 400 to get that feature. In 1971 I had a Norton, Jawa, CZ, Benelli dealership. The Norton 750 sold well. Jawa 360 with its semi-automatic transmission did not do well. The 250 CZ sold well because it domonated the off road racing scene until Bultaco came on the scene. The Benelli 250 was a total bust. In those days I rode a white Jawa 360, pinstriped in black, with a matching Jawa sidecar--wish I had that machine today--a sweet ride. Things are changing, and those of us who had the insight to get a well founded 250 are the winners. Sorry to have rambled on--comes with age.

good stuff Alex, the other manufacturers have indeed missed the boat, there is plenty of fun to be had in the 250 arena:thumbup:

I stumbled upon the YZF R250 rumors and just had to resurrect this thread. :o

Anyone heard anything new about it? I love the styling of their 125, and if they drop a 250cc into it I'd be quite giddy. :p

I want to see Kawasaki make an updated 250R, a 250RT so to speak. The "T" for track.

Sporting the same motor, the same transmission, but fully adjustable front fork, fully adjustable rear setup, and an aluminum frame. I'd be on that bus faster than anything else. The speed gained from weight reduction and the joy of being able to adjust your "stock" suspension would be great.

'T' for turbo!

What other 250cc bike are offered in the US? Over here, the 250R's main competition is the Hyosung GT250R which was Australia's highest selling 250cc motorbike before the 2008 Ninja 250R came out.

I have a very close friend who has been in the MC business since 1950. He was a Triumph and NSU dealer. I worked for him in 1958 and got my first bike from him--a 1956 NSU Special Max 250. He became a Yamaha dealer when Yamaha first came to the US--In fact he still sells Yamaha and Triumph among other stuff. He tried out my Ninja last week and lamented the fact that Yamaha and others had really missed the boat. He feels that the US is ready for a performance 250 for urban travel. This is a guy who knows motorcycles and the market. Back in the late 50`s his best selling bikes were the 200cc Triumph Cub and the 250cc NSU for those of us who used motorcycles for trnsportation. With the escalsting costs of energy and concerns for the environment, this class of people (and market) wil re-emerge. Kawasaki was on the mark since 1986 and is ahead of everybody else in the 250cc market. In just urban transportation, the Honda Rebel is a good buy. It does, however fall short in long distance highway travel. One needs to go to a 400 to get that feature. In 1971 I had a Norton, Jawa, CZ, Benelli dealership. The Norton 750 sold well. Jawa 360 with its semi-automatic transmission did not do well. The 250 CZ sold well because it domonated the off road racing scene until Bultaco came on the scene. The Benelli 250 was a total bust. In those days I rode a white Jawa 360, pinstriped in black, with a matching Jawa sidecar--wish I had that machine today--a sweet ride. Things are changing, and those of us who had the insight to get a well founded 250 are the winners. Sorry to have rambled on--comes with age.


not rambling at all. cool to hear about the old stuff. i have a friend with a warehouse that has nortons, ducs, triumphs, bsa, and more. always cool to go back in time and see those bikes.

I as well welcome the competition from Yamaha. I believe that Honda needs to introduce a 250 to the North American market as well. A CBR250 would be great competition.

Unfortunately all we know is what we knew when that article came out. 2010 for Japan is the speculation. No official press release for anything. Nothing on the Japanese site about it... yet. I'd be interested in it, and I think it would be a smart move in general given the Ninja 250R's success and the countries all over the world where the majority of two-wheeled vehicles are 250cc and under, an "affordable" and practical sport bike is a wonderful attainment.

i thought honda was supposed to reintroduce the cbr250 soon

I don't know if Honda will but that would be great.

Give me a yami 250 4cyl making about 45 horse Fuel injected, adjustable suspension front and rear, an aluminum frame and twin rotors up front and Ill be all over it. Make it about $5250 and I will worship the Yamaha GOD of chioce.

I have serious doubts about anyone ever releasing a 4 cyl 250cc bike to the north american market (sorry to burst your bubble...im sad too :().

The market just isn't there to recoup the massive costs of manufacturing those crazy little 4 cyl engines. The only reason they ever existed before is because of the licensing system that used to exist in japan and in europe that limited riders to smaller sized motorcycles depending on their license and experience level. When that changed, the market for these bikes died.

I'd LOVE to have a little yammi 250, or a CBR250, but I may have to look to the grey market to fulfill those dreams.

This bike is all kinds of sexy, it's a shame we don't get more 250's over here. But hey, we got the CBR125R in Canada at least. I imagine there's room for every company to release MotoGP replicas of their bikes in the smaller displacements. You get great learning bikes that people would be proud to drive.

The CBR125R is a sexy bike that's why when i couldn't find a Ninja 250R i went looking for the CBR125R. There was 2 strikes against it that made me wait for my ninjette. The CBR125 can only go about 120km/hr and you can't lower it. It's as high if not higher than my ninjette and the Rebel 250 was out of the question cause of my back doesn't like to lean back. I just wish they would make a FI ninjette.

Yes lets hope that they come out with an FI Ninja 250 in 2010. If they do then I will trade my bike in for one. That is all I have been waiting on.

As I understand it, one of the driving forces pushing motorcycle manufacturers to fuel injection is that it's easier to get FI systems to meet California's increasingly restrictive clean air requirements than carbed engines, and that's a necessity if they're going to sell a particular model in CA.

It's also my understanding that California typically is less restrictive on smaller bikes, the cut-off being 270cc or so - meaning the incentive to develop fuel injection for a 250 may not be as great. I would be surprised if Kawasaki did a significant design change so soon after the 08, unless they were really forced to.

EFI, though typically giving better gas mileage and more HP, can be as troublesome as a carb setup on the current rides.

I would like to be able to hit the starter and ride off without having to mess with the choke though! :)

wow, that looks awesome. Definitely force Kawi to make upgrades sooner than every 20 years.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/6259yamahayzr250r4abajoza8.jpg

that definitely looks like a sweet bike, if it were out already, and with a similar price rage as our ninja, i would have very likely chosen the yamaha, however there are still a lot of factors involved such as availability, performance, but primarily in my case currently, the $$!

however, before i got the Ninja, and i did some research on 250s, i saw that in Japan they sell a Honda hornet 250, 4 cylinder, with a good 40 Hp, however its only available there, and its impossible to get it here in Indonesia, but then the new 250 ninja came out last year and it was even available here! so i fell in love!

if this yami comes loaded with an inline 4 cylinder 250 power plant~ i would love to see its performance, and most probably envy anyone having it around here xD

who knows maybe my gf can inherit the ninja in a couple years, and ill move up to a "bigger" bike! rofl~

The latest rumors I've heard have this R4 using a 250cc single, not a twin, and certainly not a four. If it does come to pass, it probably will be very similar the the one they are now using in those WR250R and WR250X machines. Peak rear wheel horsepower on those is in the mid 20's, right in line with our ninjette mill.

from the teaser image, it looks like there are at least 2 exhaust headers, but who knows, maybe they just took an R6 and dressed it up for the R4 photo shoot, lol

what looks nice is the rear swing-arm, has the look of the bigger sports bikes~

only time will tell just what Yamaha has in store for the 250 segment!

currently here in indonesia they have a 225cc air colled 1 cylinder road bike (Power: 19 PS / 8,000 RPM) that looks like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/ScorpioZRed.jpg

and a smaller 150cc liquid cooled 1 cylinder bike (Power: 11.10 kw (14.88 HP) / 8,500 rpm) that looks like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/ContohVixion.jpg

but yamaha doesnt have any full faring bikes here on the local market, so if they could get the R4 here.... that would be great to compete with the Kawasaki monopoly of the 250s sports bike!

The latest rumors I've heard have this R4 using a 250cc single, not a twin, and certainly not a four. If it does come to pass, it probably will be very similar the the one they are now using in those WR250R and WR250X machines. Peak rear wheel horsepower on those is in the mid 20's, right in line with our ninjette mill.

That makes more sense. The ONLY way they'd ever mass-produce a small displacement bike would be to re-use an existing powerplant and tweak it as required.

I wouldn't mind it if that thing was two stroke either....now THAT would be sweet :D

That makes more sense. The ONLY way they'd ever mass-produce a small displacement bike would be to re-use an existing powerplant and tweak it as required.

I wouldn't mind it if that thing was two stroke either....now THAT would be sweet :D

then try and get your hands on the Kawasaki Ninja - 150RR (Thailand production) its 2 stroke, and would be great for the track, similar to the Arpillia 125 i believe. i had the 150RR but sold it to buy the 250R cos it was too much work keeping a 2 stroke in perfect operational condition, and it got temperamental as soon as it needed a service~

the 250cc 2 stroke from aprillia that has like 60 Hp would be a sick bike to ride... i was drooling over that bike for a long long time, ha ha

then try and get your hands on the Kawasaki Ninja - 150RR (Thailand production) its 2 stroke, and would be great for the track, similar to the Arpillia 125 i believe. i had the 150RR but sold it to buy the 250R cos it was too much work keeping a 2 stroke in perfect operational condition, and it got temperamental as soon as it needed a service~

the 250cc 2 stroke from aprillia that has like 60 Hp would be a sick bike to ride... i was drooling over that bike for a long long time, ha ha

See that's not fair...you guys over there get wayyyyy more bikes than we do. Up here in Canada we don't get anything :(....except that CBR125...but that thing's like a scooter haha.

Wayan,

Ever consider going into the gray market business? :D

Wayan,

Ever consider going into the gray market business? :D

i work for a furniture company, and we have shipped (and still are) a fair few containers over to Hawaii, and a lot to LAX, since we have a showroom there. but i don't think our showroom or our clients would be very happy to find a stack of motorbikes in the back of the container rather than their sofas or beds! ha ha...

how are the regulations over there in the states, are you allowed to use unregistered 2 stroke bikes like for track use only? oh, by the way, the Ninja 150RR is Euro 2 approved, has a 2 phase catalytic converter i believe. whats nice with the bike is once its warmed up (and kept in good condition) it does not spit out clouds of smoke. which i find terrible on other 2 stroke bikes that are still being used around here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/ninjarrmotogpmain.jpg

anyhow, anyone really interested in getting these 150s should try and get them directly from Thailand, i believe that they would cost a fair bit less than the +/- US$3000 that they do here. since we have rather high import taxes.

biggest trouble will be getting spare parts in the long run, he he...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/wayanlam/6259yamahayzr250r4abajoza8.jpg

Ill take one. Make it black. lol it sure looks like the front suspension is adjustable on this one here.

how are the regulations over there in the states, are you allowed to use unregistered 2 stroke bikes like for track use only? oh, by the way, the Ninja 150RR is Euro 2 approved, has a 2 phase catalytic converter i believe. whats nice with the bike is once its warmed up (and kept in good condition) it does not spit out clouds of smoke. which i find terrible on other 2 stroke bikes that are still being used around here.



I know a few years ago the engine size limit on 2 stroke motors were 90-100cc's. I don't know what the current regs are on strokes as they are even clamping down on lawn and garden tools with engines now. :(

That 150RR does look like a sweet bike! :thumbup:

the only time id trade the 250 in for the 150 would maybe be for the track, and even then i don't know for sure, since i haven't even been on a track in my life. since we DON'T HAVE ANY HERE!! WAAAAaaa :(

but ya, i believe the 150 would be more agile, faster, and funner on a track compared to the 250s. it weighs quite a lot less, and 2 stroke engines never seem go run out of OUPHF!

here are the specs:

Engine Type : 2-Stroke,crankcase reedvalve,SuperKIPS,HSAS
Diameter x Langkah : 59,0 x 54,4mm
cooling: liquid cooled
number of cylinder and size: one & 148cc
compression : 6,8 : 1
max power : 22,1 KW ( 30,1 PS ) / 10.500 RPM
Max Torque : 21,6 Nm / 9.000 RPM
Karburator : Mikuni VM 28
Starter : Kick (no electric starter)
Gears : 6 speed, constant mesh, return shift
Tipe system reduksi primer : Gear
Reduction Ratio : 3,272 ( 72/22 )
Clutch: Wet, multi disc
Gear Ratio: Ke-1 2.700 ( 27/10 )
Ke-2 1.706 ( 29/17 )
Ke-3 1.300 ( 26/20 )
Ke-4 1.090 ( 24/22 )
Ke-5 0.952 ( 20/21 )
Ke-6 0.863 ( 19/22 )
final drive : Chain drive
Reduction Ratio : 3.000 ( 42/14 )
Overall Drive Ratio: 8.479 @ top gear
Oli system: Oil Injection
2T Oli Capacity: 1 liter
Transmission/engine Oli : 0,87 liter
Exhaust / Muffler : Catalic Converter
Coolant Capacity: 1,3 liter
Front suspension: Telescopic Fork Suspension
Back suspension: Monoshock Suspension
Front Brake : Disk brakeTwin Pot
Back Brake : Disk BrakeTwin Pot
Front wheel : 90/90-17 49S Tube-type
Back Wheel : 110/80-17 57S Tube-type
Total size : 1975mm x 719mm x 1090mm
Seat Height : 780mm
wheel distance : 1.305mm
ground Clearence: 145mm
Weight : 124,5 kg
Fuel Capacity : 10,8 liter
Battery : 12 V 4 Ah

uhm.. had to translate all of that, lol should make sense tho, only a matter of converting the metric dimensions for you Americans, he he

Weight : 124,5 kg

Wow really? So if thats either wet or dry weight, it has the 250 beat by at least 80-100lbs, wet specs for 250 is around 149.6 kg!

Starter : Kick (no electric starter)

Screw that jazz :p

Wow really? So if thats either wet or dry weight, it has the 250 beat by at least 80-100lbs, wet specs for 250 is around 149.6 kg!



Screw that jazz :p

i think that's dry weight. but still its really noticeably lighter... when i have to get out of a tight parking spot (which is practically every parking spot on this island) i have a hell of a time to get the bike backing up, specially if its on a slight incline. on the 150, it was almost like pushing a scooter. he he

and ya, the kick start thing was something i definitely put into the "WTF" category box... i did buy the bike knowing it didn't have an electric starter, but i quickly grew tired of it. specially if i was at some traffic lights early in the morning on my way to work, and poufff.... it dies on me when the lights go green! -.-

Hi All,
First post alert :eek: don't have my ninja yet...

The Yamaha looks cool, but I can't imagine it having 4 cylinders, 1 or 2 makes sense. I think maybe 1 cylinder and they will try to sell it as 1/4 of the R1 engine, or an existing parallel twin that already fits and meets the requirements.

I don't think it will have 40hp, that's too much for most of the European regulations for beginner bikes unless the bike is really heavy, so beginners would not be able to buy it. In Ireland the system is if your 16 you can get a A1 license which means any bike 51-125cc, but nothing bigger even if you pass the test. You want a bigger bike, you have to get an A license and do the test on a bigger bike again. My buddy has a Yamaha dragstar 125cc and is currently wishing he had something bigger, not for more power, but so he could do the real bike test.

If your 18, you can get an A license which allows any bike "not exceeding 25kW (33bhp) or that they do not have power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.16kW/kg (0.212bhp/Kg)" and if you pass the test this restriction stays in place for 2 further years :eek: so really passing the test means same bike for 2 years but you can carry a passenger, don't have to wear a bright yellow vest with an L on it, and can use the motorways.

So basically if you have a 125 your stuck with them as you can't do a license test for the bigger bikes on a 125. If you have ninja 250 you are right on the limit of the A license and when you pass you are still right on the limit of the power you can have for the next 2 years. The power to weight thing is interesting though, you could get a small and heavy Harley and be under 0.16kW/kg.

I think most other euro countries are similar, the UK has a way to get directly to bigger bike though (I'm jealous of those guys :o). Existing 250cc motors from like in the ybr250 are most likely to be in it, all the yamaha 250's i've seen have been single cylinder, if they create a new motor i guess they would go for a parallel twin. Honda only have off-road 250s. The ninja is about the only sports bike in the class, all the other 250s i can find are off-road bikes. No wonder the 250 is always out of stock!

Karl, welcome to the forum.

:)

That Yamaha 250 probably ain't gonna happen here in the U.S. I hope it does, though.

It will be very pricey. Probably approaching the $8000.00 US figure.

That bike is above and beyond the Ninja 250r in so many ways, where do I begin. But, it was designed as a sportbike from the onset (in all fairness).

so your saying that Yamaha have built up a completely new bike from scratch for the 250? cos other ppl are just saying that it would most likely just be a 1 or max 2 cylinder engine that they already have off a previous bike~ maybe slightly tweaked.

somehow i see the point in putting out a bike in the 250 class that is top in its class (bragging rights?), but i think people would have a hard time choosing to spend around 8 grand for a 250 (no matter how good it is) when you can get a 600cc bike for a similar price, and the "bigger is better" mentality is deeply imbeded into almost all of us :p. unless yamaha is trying to just target avid 250cc 4 stroke racers, lol.

stick an fzr 250 motor in the 125 chassis... not really building a whole new bike... parts bin engineering. :)

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_fzr250%2086.htm

You all do realize that Kawasaki doesn't need to do any research and development for FI on the 250 right? They've had FI on it in Europe for years and still do on the 08 and 09 models. They had no choice but to go with FI for Europe because of the higher emissions standards (yes they have higher standards then the US which is actually one of the lowest of the major countries). They keep it carbed in the states because they said that US buyers biggest concern for the bike was cost and this kept the cost down.

All they have to do it just let the FI model they already have come to the states. If you don't believe me check out the Kawasaki UK site.

Fuel system Fuel injection: ø28 mm x 2 (Keihin)Dual
throttle valves


Also in answer to miks' post about other 250's in the states. They also have the Hyosung 250gt here as well. It's also sold as a United Motors bike. Either way it's sold it's not very popular here because of it's piss poor quality in comparison to the big 4. The only other 250's here are weak rather slow cruisers or standards from the other 3 of the big 4. Not even Kawasaki respects the US small bike market all that much. Even Canada got the ZZR250 whereas the states got denied it. :(

Hyosung has got a pretty bad reputation here too. But apparently, their newer models (08-09) have much better build quality.

But back on topic, I would love to see the Yama R250 over here, even though it would make it harder for me to decide what bike I'm going to get in the near future.

stick an fzr 250 motor in the 125 chassis... not really building a whole new bike... parts bin engineering. :)

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_fzr250%2086.htm

Quote from kkms link~

Odd that anyone bothered to build a 250 four stroke in the first place. Who buys them? They're nowhere against a KR-1S or RGV in handling, torque or power. But they are a few years old, so maybe a comparison with the TZR250 would be more appropriate. But then five-year-old TZRs don't cost two and a half grand.

The FZR and GSX-R's appeal must be very specific. You'd have to hate two strokes, love regular valve clearance checks, have impossibly high insurance, 11 points on your licence and the mechanical sympathy of a bike journalist to be able to put up with them for long and remain sane.

---------------------------
those last couple paragraphs summed it up quite well, he he...

i guess this could be a way that they have decided to tackle the new 250 sports gen bikes over at Yamaha. and with all the added technology and knowledge that they have since they first made the FZR back in 1986, im sure they could tweak the engine to be more user friendly... redline @ 18k :eek: imagine putting an after market exhaust on that!

Quote from kkms link~

Odd that anyone bothered to build a 250 four stroke in the first place. Who buys them? They're nowhere against a KR-1S or RGV in handling, torque or power. But they are a few years old, so maybe a comparison with the TZR250 would be more appropriate. But then five-year-old TZRs don't cost two and a half grand.

The FZR and GSX-R's appeal must be very specific. You'd have to hate two strokes, love regular valve clearance checks, have impossibly high insurance, 11 points on your licence and the mechanical sympathy of a bike journalist to be able to put up with them for long and remain sane.

---------------------------
those last couple paragraphs summed it up quite well, he he...

i guess this could be a way that they have decided to tackle the new 250 sports gen bikes over at Yamaha. and with all the added technology and knowledge that they have since they first made the FZR back in 1986, im sure they could tweak the engine to be more user friendly... redline @ 18k :eek: imagine putting an after market exhaust on that!

lol... that's what the Ninja 250R is! Who buys them?? A ton of people!! :lol:

easy for the author to say when 2 strokes are not even offered in the US. :)

well your right in saying that the new gen ninjas is practically a updated dress up of the classic 250s, with a couple tweaks here and there. but at least kawasaki kept the production of the ninjette going all these years. the other brands, yamaha, suzuki, and Honda, don't seem to have any bike in this class (currently) except for some older models that they stopped producing in like the 90s. many of which were really nice bikes even! of course each country then has some special bike that's not really available in other countries, such as our 150rr 2 stroke ninjas.

i'm definitely happy with the 250, im sure its more satisfying riding this bike closer to its limit, than having a liter bike that i'd have to ride at its minimum, since the roads here would rarely permit me to even redline in 1st gear, since that's already around 90mph+ on the bigger sports bikes.

i'm looking forward to see what the Yamaha YZF-R2504 will be like once its unveiled!

i'm looking forward to see what the Yamaha YZF-R2504 will be like once its unveiled!
yes, you and me both! I just hope it happens soon. :thumbup:

Lightweight 2 stroke twin 250 for the track for $7000 otd.. Im buyin

4 stroke 4 cyl 250 FI maiking 45-50 HP for $6000 otd..Im buyin

4 stroke 250 FI twin with adjustable everything making 30-35 HP for $4500..I might be in the market. I wana ride it first.

4 stroke single Ill look... but not touch.

I would imagine the big 4 will announce their 2010s sometime in the next few months, no?

Sure would like to move past all these getting-my-hopes-up rumors.

You all do realize that Kawasaki doesn't need to do any research and development for FI on the 250 right? They've had FI on it in Europe for years and still do on the 08 and 09 models. They had no choice but to go with FI for Europe because of the higher emissions standards (yes they have higher standards then the US which is actually one of the lowest of the major countries). They keep it carbed in the states because they said that US buyers biggest concern for the bike was cost and this kept the cost down.


If memory serves other countries also have taxes placed on motors over a certain CC, and in the UK, isn't there a limit to engine size based on years riding (Or age)?

If the US has a standard that said "under 3 years experience, stick with 250cc or below", then the 250 sales would increase big time. The US doesn't have that, so 250 sales are low.

Of course, I could be wrong too. ;)

The Poms over there have a similar law to us Aussies; where Learners are only able to ride certain bikes depending on CCs and power:weight ratio.

the heck with the 600's and up. Bring on the 250's. I'll own 1 of each from every manufacturer but the ninja is always going to be my first love. hehe.

If memory serves other countries also have taxes placed on motors over a certain CC, and in the UK, isn't there a limit to engine size based on years riding (Or age)?

If the US has a standard that said "under 3 years experience, stick with 250cc or below", then the 250 sales would increase big time. The US doesn't have that, so 250 sales are low.

Of course, I could be wrong too. ;)

If I'm not mistaken the limitation in the UK is based on hp (under 33hp for the first year). However, that has nothing to do with the FI issue. As I said, they gave us the carbs for cost reduction and gave them the FI in order to meet their higher emissions standards. This was said by Kawasaki themselves when the 08's first started coming out.

I agree that the 250 sales would increase with the adoption of a tiered license system like what Europeans use. However, the Ninja 250 has had excellent sales in the states since 08. At one of the dealerships by me they sold over 8x the amount of 250's in the early months of the 08 release as compared to the 07 models.

If I'm not mistaken the limitation in the UK is based on hp (under 33hp for the first year). However, that has nothing to do with the FI issue. As I said, they gave us the carbs for cost reduction and gave them the FI in order to meet their higher emissions standards. This was said by Kawasaki themselves when the 08's first started coming out.

I agree that the 250 sales would increase with the adoption of a tiered license system like what Europeans use. However, the Ninja 250 has had excellent sales in the states since 08. At one of the dealerships by me they sold over 8x the amount of 250's in the early months of the 08 release as compared to the 07 models.
8x? that is crazy! Good for Kawi, but wow.

I think it would be great to see some other alternatives.

I would love to see Kawasaki rework the Ninja 500 like they did the 250. If they would update the appearance, shave off a little weight to get it down closer to the weight of the 250 and do a rework on the engine to make it a little smoother and add a few HP I think it could very well be the perfect bike, at least in my opinion. I really like the 250 and we are honestly having a blast with ours but there are definately times when an few more HP would very nice.

Yah, the dealership by me had told me in 2007 they sold like 8 250's over the summer. In 08 they had something like a total of 32 bikes sold before delivery and would have sold more had they been on the floor. This was just the first round of 08's and they sold more after that. So they at least had 4x more sold just in the opening months of the new model.


Well the easiest thing to do to update the 500 is take the newer 650 motor and shorten the stroke to make it a 500. I didn't know this until I read an article on the 650, but the outer dimensions of the 650 motor are SMALLER then that of the 500. So use an overall smaller, lighter, core motor and borrow as much from the 650 (trans, suspension, FI, that sort of thing), borrow some of the body parts from the 250 and you have a new bike that will bridge the gap and cut costs. It would be a win/win type of thing.

hmm

If the other 3 manufacturers really want to challenge the 250, they're gonna have to make simple bare bones type 250s like the Kawasaki. I can't see a more sporty supersport type 250 succeeding here especially with the weight of the 600 class bikes coming down and nimbleness going up.

belum banyak data spesifikasi mesin YZF R250 ini, akan tetapi sinyalemen saya motor ini akan mengusung di produksi dengan dapur pacu minimal Twin cylinder DOHC dan didukung oleh pengabutan injeksi. Dilihat dari keberanian Yamaha menghadirkan spek ban belakang tapak lebar (banget), sepertinya power yang diusung motor ini lebih besar dari Ninja 250R. Sinyalemen kedua saya motor ini akan menemui konsumen dengan mahar yang jauh lebih tinggi dari Ninja 250R, paling tidak sampai $ 2000 lebih tinggi dari Ninja 250R sehingga keungkinan akan face-to-face langsung dengan cagiva Mito 525 dan Aprilia RS 125. Kenapa bisa? wong YZF R125 saja dijual dengan bandrol yang beda-beda tipis dengan Ninja 250R yaitu sekitar $3500, Mongtor ini pasti lebih mahal dari R125.

I have no idea what this says but I do see Twin cylinder DOHC after YZF R250 I tried to ue the windows translater but it says this is english. Go figure.

I believe it is Indonesian. I get a partial transation out of Google:

not many data specification engine YZF R250, but I sinyalemen motor akan mengusung in this production with a minimal kitchen spur Twin cylinder DOHC and supported by pengabutan injection. View from the courage to bring spek Yamaha rear tire tread width (up), it seems that carried power this motor is greater than Ninja 250R. I Sinyalemen second motor will meet with the consumer portion of far higher than the Ninja 250R, at least up to $ 2,000 higher than the Ninja 250R akan keungkinan so that face-to-face with a cagiva Mito Aprilia RS 525 and 125. Why can? wong YZF R125 are sold with a bandrol different backgrounds with a thin Ninja 250R is about $ 3500, Mongtor this certainly is higher than R125.

so a twin 250 with FI and more ponys than the 250R
and of course more expensive.

Well the easiest thing to do to update the 500 is take the newer 650 motor and shorten the stroke to make it a 500. I didn't know this until I read an article on the 650, but the outer dimensions of the 650 motor are SMALLER then that of the 500. So use an overall smaller, lighter, core motor and borrow as much from the 650 (trans, suspension, FI, that sort of thing), borrow some of the body parts from the 250 and you have a new bike that will bridge the gap and cut costs. It would be a win/win type of thing.

This makes a lot of sense in bringing the bike to market without having to develop an entirely new engine or simply carry over the existing 500cc engine. I like it. My wildest thought was to make a 375cc triple by adding a cylinder to the 250cc engine. More development involved but it would make for a very interesting and distinct bike in-between the 250R and 650R.

I would love to see Kawasaki rework the Ninja 500 like they did the 250.

They did. It's the 650R. I doubt the 500 will be around much longer. I doubt they are even making any more of them. I don't think the 500 was ever a very big seller. Most people either bought 250s or went up to a 600+. It wouldn't surprise me at all if what we see of the 500s right now is just left over stock getting liquidated...

kitchen spur Twin cylinder DOHC and supported by pengabutan injection.

Wouldn't mind one of those babies. Sounds crazy!!!! I wonder if the kitchen has a dishwasher.

The latest rumors I've heard have this R4 using a 250cc single, not a twin, and certainly not a four. If it does come to pass, it probably will be very similar the the one they are now using in those WR250R and WR250X machines. Peak rear wheel horsepower on those is in the mid 20's, right in line with our ninjette mill.

Probably a good bet. There is a video on youtube of a couple timed drags at the strip between a WR250X vs a Ninja 250R. The WR250X proved to be a faster bike which dispells a lot of peoples arguments about a single being "crap".

See that's not fair...you guys over there get wayyyyy more bikes than we do. Up here in Canada we don't get anything :(....except that CBR125...but that thing's like a scooter haha.

We get grey market bikes from importers.. I personally own a 1992 (1990?) CBR250RR.

Wayan,

Ever consider going into the gray market business? :D

Grey Market 250's rule.

so your saying that Yamaha have built up a completely new bike from scratch for the 250? cos other ppl are just saying that it would most likely just be a 1 or max 2 cylinder engine that they already have off a previous bike~ maybe slightly tweaked.
somehow i see the point in putting out a bike in the 250 class that is top in its class (bragging rights?), but i think people would have a hard time choosing to spend around 8 grand for a 250 (no matter how good it is) when you can get a 600cc bike for a similar price, and the "bigger is better" mentality is deeply imbeded into almost all of us :p. unless yamaha is trying to just target avid 250cc 4 stroke racers, lol.

I can almost gaurentee that they would not put the money to engineer an entire new power plant when they are sitting on the current liquid cooled, fuel injected WR250 engine design.


stick an fzr 250 motor in the 125 chassis... not really building a whole new bike... parts bin engineering. :)

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_fzr250%2086.htm
I wish.. those FZR250 motors, like my CBR250's motor are fantastic little screamers and pull away from a Ninja 250R with ease.


I have an issue of Cycle Canada from a month or two ago and they interviewed the director of marketing for Honda Canada and it specifically said that Honda would be introducing a "new" bike in Canada and North America as a step up from the CBR125. It went on to say that it would be a 4 cylinder 600cc bike and would be on sale for 2010 or 2011. My guess is the EU-only 2009 Hornet 600. Its sad considering that the 250RR motor (engine code MC14e) was built from 1986 right up to 1999. As much of a dreamer as I am, I know that we will probably never see a 250cc 4 cylinder "screamer" like those old bikes nor a two-stroke here with our emission laws.

I am skeptical about this yamaha design. That magazine article was posted and then no new news has ever surfaced about it.

Ben Bostrom just twittered this;

F5N1DuI4ifQ

funny! :D

check out whats behind me , that thing is fast as hell no joke. keeping up and beating some 600's of the line. I havent heard anything about the yamaha 250 coming out on this side of the pond. im seeing if i can get my hands on a aprilla rs250 though. those things are little speed demons

check out whats behind me , that thing is fast as hell no joke. keeping up and beating some 600's of the line. I havent heard anything about the yamaha 250 coming out on this side of the pond. im seeing if i can get my hands on a aprilla rs250 though. those things are little speed demons

the aprillia 250.... sigh~ ive seen one or two here in Bali, i don't wanna know how much it cost them to get it shipped over... they aren't cheap. the 250 2 stroke, that baby has like 60 Hp... drool, while its smaller sibling, the 125 has close to 30 Hp if i remember correctly, which was similar to my old ninja 150rr that's 2 stroke~

I seen the youtube of the Yamaha vrs the Kawi. The yami was out of steam at the end of the track. Ill stipulate that if the race was another 100 yards the Kawi would have passed the yami and drove away. Ill bet theres at LEAST a 15 mph difference in top speed. On top of that mods to a twin are alot more effective vrs a single.

I think this machine looks beautiful...
Toss on FI and 2 maybe 4 cyl. (anything like 40ish hp would be amazing)
Nice fat rear tire, like in the pic
and i would have a two-bike armada in my garage, this(pretty much any color) and the 08 blue ninja 250

I might have missed mention of this mail-order 250cc bike coming to your doorstep. I think the engine is made in the same factory suzuki uses? I have not read up on it enough.

more info in the news forum here. ninjette.org > General > Motorcycling News

Edit to claify: The USA 250cc model looks the same as this 125cc photo.
MOre info Here also (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/megelli-motorcycles-coming-250cc-bike/)

3394

its only a 5 speed :confused:

That bike won't sell with the ninjette as it's competition especially at nearly the same price.

* Type – 4-Stroke, Single Cylinder, Liquid Cooled
* Bore x Stroke – 65.5mm x 68mm
* Compression Ratio – 9.5:1
* Carburetion – CVK30
* Displacement – 249 cc
* Max. Torgue – 17.8 / 7500
* Horse Power – 16.2 HP
* Ignition – CDI
* Transmission – 5-speed

16hp with a 5-speed? You'd be lucky to make highway speeds with that at max throttle.

Its a good looking bike from the side profile.

However, to make this competitive with the Ninja 250 (reliability and resale value), it will have to have a lot more HP's, use as many off-the-shelf parts and have to be built problem-free and have above-average customer service and warranty service.

In other words, it will have to do all those things that Hyosung doesn't.

^Should be about as fast as a Honda Rebel, I think I would pass on that one.

Give me a yami 250 4cyl making about 45 horse Fuel injected, adjustable suspension front and rear, an aluminum frame and twin rotors up front and Ill be all over it. Make it about $5250 and I will worship the Yamaha GOD of chioce.

You ask too much. LOL - not a bad idea though. :cool:

i looked into this Megelli bike a couple weeks back since its apparently available here in Bali already. from pictures, the bike looks quite nice, but the riding position is tougher on the back/shoulders than the ninja. the selling price here is around $2700 or 2800 i believe, which is in a way, a little over priced, since for not that much more, you can buy a Ninja 150rr (2 stroke) that's way more powerful, and im sure is better made/quality for about $3100.

Technical Specifications:
Engine
* Type – 4-Stroke, Single Cylinder, Liquid Cooled
* Bore x Stroke – 65.5mm x 68mm
* Compression Ratio – 9.5:1
* Carburetion – CVK30
* Displacement – 249 cc
* Max. Torgue – 17.8 / 7500
* Horse Power – 16.2 HP
* Ignition – CDI
* Transmission – 5-speed

from talking to some local people, they told me that these Chinese/Taiwanese made engines don't last long. usually after about 2 years they need to be practically replaced (depending on riding habits i guess). various brands/models have been available here in Indonesia, but i don't think they ever took off (hardly see them) since they have this bad reputation.

the 16 hp is really lame, i read a review of someone test riding this bike, and they said that the 250 ninja overlapped him repeatedly throughout the test ride, lol.

i guess the only thing going for it is the slightly cheap-er price, and the good looks. besides that... well everyone will have their own opinion i'm sure~

That Megelli is DEFINITELY nice looking.


But...
"At 248 lbs, this unit will be even more fuel efficient and be able to push to speeds of 75-80mph." (http://store.qlinkmotor.com/product/part_number=2009MG250r/1658.0.51178.0.0.0.0)
:(

After drooling over this bikes looks and then becoming a bit disappointed about the specs listed, I emailed Megelli on their 'QLINK' (http://qlinkmotor.com/) site about the 250R.


Information regarding Megelli 250R for the U.S.?

Many people are curious about this bike stateside, hopefully breaking into the increased Kawasaki's Ninja 250R sales.

I would like to ask a couple questions on behalf of a few forums I frequent. Your responses will be shown to many potential costumers, and others whom might gain more interest.

The description on the website states "Available in June 2009." So I assume it hasn't been updated. Is there an ETA for the bike in the U.S.?
If not, can you provide us with any details regarding what stage its at during its development?

Regarding the bikes specifications listed on the Qlink website, are they all correct? Most importantly the engine's specs?

Any other information provided will be highly appreciated.

Looking forward to hearing from you.


And their response:

RE: Information regarding the Megelli 250R for the U.S.?

Unfortunately it seems that we are just teasing you; definitely not on purpose though! I went in and spoke with my boss today and he is telling me that the manufacturer is teasing us as well. They ran into some small bumps and want to make sure when we do get it out, it is perfect…and we agree! Our quality control team is over there now and they are working on improving the performance of the engine. We would rather put it off for a while than put products out there less than par.

The good news is that we are in the final stages of having the Megelli EPA approved for sell in the United States (this is a BIG step) so once the manufacturer gets everything straightened out and production gets going, we will be EXCITED to get the Megelli out on the road. We are telling people not to hold their breath until the end of this year or the beginning of next year though! My boss told me he is going to start saying November, even though he expects that it may be sooner ;)

The specs should be very accurate as some of the bikes have confirmed, but as I said, we want even more performance out of the engine, so if anything changes, I think it will be small…and for the better!

Again, I am sorry I don’t have a better ETA for you, I wish I did! The process is very long and involved and we are working hard at it. We cannot wait to get these bikes out either, anticipation builds daily, but we must wait if we want a GREAT product, and we do!

Thanks for your interest, and keep checking our blog out, I am sure we will post when anything substantial happens!


Tamara LaRose

Customer Relations

QLINK MOTOR

TEL: 866-626-8073

Web: www.qlinkmotor.com

Blog: www.qlinkmotorblog.com


Riding a motorcycle on today’s highways, you have to ride in a very defensive manner. You have to be a good rider and you have to have both hands and both feet on the controls at all times.
- Evel Knievel

They did. It's the 650R. I doubt the 500 will be around much longer. I've read conflicting things. Some say 2009 is the last year for the 500, others say 2010. But either way, it's definitely near the end.

Means I better buy up all the aftermarket parts I want now, before they're discontinued!

To be honest, I never understood why the Ninja 250, 500, and 650 were different bikes. If I were Kawasaki, I'd put the different engines in the same frame. Maybe with upgraded but bolt-compatible brakes and suspension. I must be spoiled by Volkswagen's Lego-like part swappability, even across different generations of models.

... I'd put the different engines in the same frame. Maybe with upgraded but bolt-compatible brakes and suspension. I must be spoiled by Volkswagen's Lego-like part swappability, even across different generations of models.

Oh that is just crazy talk!;)

When this gets released in the U.S., bye-bye Kawi, hello Yami! :D

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/yamaha-yzf-r250-finally-confirmed/21970.html

/merged

Oops...thx Alex!

Not a bad looking little machine

http://s4.visordown.com/uploads/images/large/53729.jpg

Not a big fan of the banana seat but the pre-gens have them so no biggie. When converted to a race bike that seat won't exist.

you need a banana seat in india because you have to carry 6 passengers and a goat. i would buy one if it was available here.

And this is how gurk gets into 250 racing :D

I just hope it looks more like their 125 than that banana seat crap though. I want a smaller version of R6 please. lol

And this is how gurk gets into 250 racing :D

I just hope it looks more like their 125 than that banana seat crap though. I want a smaller version of R6 please. lol

I think the YZF250 looks like a mini-R6.

I just hope it looks more like their 125 than that banana seat crap though. I want a smaller version of R6 please. lol

Werd!

In race trim it would look something like this:

http://caberz.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/yamaha-r125-blue-factory-racing1.jpg

Yeah, it better look more like the R125.

That little bike is sexy!

http://wakpaper.com/large/Yamaha_wallpapers_118.jpg

Werd!

In race trim it would look something like this:

http://caberz.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/yamaha-r125-blue-factory-racing1.jpg

I'll taaaaaaaake..... FOUR PLEASE!

I'll taaaaaaaake..... FOUR PLEASE!

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=624&pictureid=9819

said to release in 2014. who dafuq still designs these with god dam banana seats. i mean really wtf

I don't mind the seat so much but i am trying to eliminate mine now so i don't see me buying another one with it.

said to release in 2014. who dafuq still designs these with god dam banana seats. i mean really wtf

Release in the India market. No word on when/if it will come to the US.

The pic above with the banana seat is the R15, so probably not the best representation of what the 250 might look like.

If the 250 is designed like the 125 I will be buying one.

Not a bad looking little machine

http://s4.visordown.com/uploads/images/large/53729.jpg

This banana boat model has been replaced with the newer model aptly named R15 V2.0

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/motorbikes/981864-2012-yamaha-r15-v2-0-ownership-report-colwhite.jpg

in aussie we already make a yamaha yz450gp

http://www.bikesales.com.au/news/2012/road-racers/yamaha/yz450f/yamaha-yz450gp-affordable-road-racing-32946

I just have a hard time figuring out why all the motorcycle companies don't make a 250 four stroke.
They sell like crazy. They are fun to ride. They make all sort of things that sit on showroom floors. Then gets sold cheap at the end of the year.

You really can't ride a 125 on the interstate. I mean you can but shouldn't and it is illegal in some places. But a 250 is a real bike. Capable of carrying two people up a hill at 60 mph.

Not a bad looking little machine

http://s4.visordown.com/uploads/images/large/53729.jpg

I like it. Looks like the sitting position is up higher and a not so much bent over rake. Sorta like the Ninja and Honda 250. I just can't ride laying down. :D

Have to see what the future holds.

The ?first? news of the Yami 250 http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Yamaha-250cc-Sportsbike_Possibly-YZF-R25

Their is a thread on this somewhere, or at least it was discussed, I remember people disliking the banana seat.

Btw, very ambiguous thread name.

Their is a thread on this somewhere, or at least it was discussed, I remember people disliking the banana seat.

Btw, very ambiguous thread name.

I'm pretty sure in the last article that was posted in the previous thread they said they got rid of the banana :D That is just the old original picture! So that's good!

Not the actual bike and nothing new here.

/threads merged

Thank you Alex, sorry I didn't look for the existing thread. :confused:

Keep getting great news, first saw the KTM, now a Yamaha! Let's just hope it doesn't have a ridiculous seat height like the R6 lol

This banana boat model has been replaced with the newer model aptly named R15 V2.0

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/motorbikes/981864-2012-yamaha-r15-v2-0-ownership-report-colwhite.jpg

Would pick that up in a heartbeat if it came stateside. That's a sexy little bike.

I just hope w all this compettion coming into the game, we start to see the HP/Torque numbers rise back up to where they were in the days of the ZZR 250.

The torque numbers were lower than at a similar displacement today. The higher hp numbers were due to 4-cylinders rather than 1 or 2 allowing the bikes to rev much higher than they do today. Revving that high and still meeting emissions constraints on a budget-priced bike is quite a challenge.

As much as I would want this bike I hope it's a total let down because after investing so much time into the Yamasaki I can't possibly see selling it:(
And no I won't keep two motorcycles for the same purpose it just doesn't make sense to.

As much as I would want this bike I hope it's a total let down because after investing so much time into the Yamasaki I can't possibly see selling it:(
And no I won't keep two motorcycles for the same purpose it just doesn't make sense to.

same here, as much time as i spent on my ninja makes it hard to another 250 bike.

but if yamaha ever comes out with this bike, i'll buy one and start putting kawasaki parts on it as a joke.:D

in aussie we already make a yamaha yz450gp

http://www.bikesales.com.au/news/2012/road-racers/yamaha/yz450f/yamaha-yz450gp-affordable-road-racing-32946

This is basically the same concept as the gp45 series in the UK. Not bad if done with used parts and such to keep build costs low. Problem is that the yz450 motor makes good power for the weight but its a high strung race motor. Running one on the street would be trick but you would be doing maint much more than a lower tuned street bike motor.

And apparently these builds were around in the club racing scene before Roland Sands got his hands on em.

From the folks at Visor Down yamaha-confirms-250cc-sports-bike (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/yamaha-confirms-250cc-sports-bike-again/22418.html)

first. and one cylinder? dumb imo

I'll believe it when I see it. I hate getting all excited over all the speculation on bikes...

and one cylinder?

Right with you there. But look at the Yamaha WR250X engine. It's 250cc and puts out the same power as the Ninjette. It might be okay, it'll just sound like it's farting.

It looks nasty with the banana seat and body. The ninjette 250 and 300 both look nicer. Only thing thats a bit better then the 250 but not the 300 is the front.

We need moto3 to go 250cc I4s so we can get those sexy screamers back.

I really like the YZF-R125 styling, so a 250 model would be sweet.

There is a big difference between the (cheap $4000 AU) Indian 150 and the (expensive $7000Au) Japanese R-125

There is nothing wrong with single cylinders, especially when they put out more power than a heavy parallel twin.

An R-125 based bike with a wr250 engine would be the sweetest sporty 'lil thing, sadly it will probably be the Indian version.

Don't see why it took them so long to get in the game. The entry level street bike market is huge. And until Honda got in with the CBR, Kawasaki owned it and there top selling bike was always the ninja 250.

Interested to see how this bike stacks up, if it actually exists :P

There is a big difference between the (cheap $4000 AU) Indian 150 and the (expensive $7000Au) Japanese R-125

There is nothing wrong with single cylinders, especially when they put out more power than a heavy parallel twin.

An R-125 based bike with a wr250 engine would be the sweetest sporty 'lil thing, sadly it will probably be the Indian version.

Too true, though even the Indian version is a very competent bike in it's own right. The banana boat version was replaced a while back with a split seat unit. It's a sweet looking bike with an amazing frame. The only thing letting it down is the underpowered engine. Just google R15 V2.0

that bike with the WR250x engine would be a very good competitor in our small sport bike segment.

/merged

If I didn't mind buying a smaller bike, I'd buy this in a heartbeat.

http://throttlers.net/blog_assets/reviews/r15v2/IMG_6420.jpg

http://www.wheelosphere.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Yamaha-YZF-R15-V2.0-Photo.png

http://www.motosmodificadastuning.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/412701_3246918088328_1128207982_33340011_130577779_o.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CAU5kP84wJE/TskG1yfFirI/AAAAAAAACXg/oS8ko1v74S0/s1600/Yamaha+YZF+R15+V2.0+4.jpg

have you seen the honda VTR250? it looks freaking badass. and its a v twin 250! a real vtwin!

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/vtr250f-launched-in-japan/22329.html

and its a v twin 250! a real vtwin!


I know right? And it has a real frame too!! Not the little flexible one on the Ninja.

Dumb question: that's a trellis frame right? Looks like what's on Dukitteh's.

tube trellis. and its not necessarily "less flexible". all frames flex some. its just flexible in different ways. the diamond neck tube frame on the 250 is an engine supported bottom and has what is essentially an A arm from the rear subframe up to the neck. so it doesn't flex a whole lot forward and back or up and down but flexes a lot side to side. good attributes for a street bike where you're primarily hitting things straight up and down like speed bumps or potholes. perimeter frames, whether they are made with boxed aluminum (common for todays sport bikes due to weight) or steel tube trellis, are designed to have better support laterally. most newer perimeter frames use the engine as the bottom support as well as an internal lateral brace. but some older frames (most of the perimeter frames made with boxed steel sheet, which is much softer and easier to deform) use down-tubes to support the bottom of the neck instead of the relatively brittle engine casings of the time. many of the downtubes on steel box frames were also bolted to the sides of the bottom of the engine for extra lateral support. anyway, because of the design of the perimeter frame, it allows more vertical flex of the neck, but much less lateral flex. you'll notice the forward mount on the gas tank for perimeter frames is always made to handle at least an inch or so of frame flex.

tl-dr: there are tons of variables, and what kind of flex you want in a frame changes dramatically depending on use.

Alex.s uses wall of text!

It's super effective!

Old Lemon feints!

have you seen the honda VTR250? it looks freaking badass. and its a v twin 250! a real vtwin!

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/vtr250f-launched-in-japan/22329.html


since you keep up with the visordown site have you also seen where aprilia and triumph may be coming out with 250s?
only question is will they be shipped out to the US
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/aprilia-to-join-the-250-battle/22447.html

aprilia and triumph? you might as well buy a ducati and a ktm while you're at it, mr. moneybags! :P

*please make a triple, please make a triple, please make a triple*

Mr motorcycle loans = temporary Mr moneybags right? :)

Aprillia and triumph are both planning small capacity bikes for india. Aprillia will be a single and triumph will be a twin...

aprilia and triumph? you might as well buy a ducati and a ktm while you're at it, mr. moneybags! :P

i wish moneybags!
i depend on 0% financing for big purchases.

http://www.bsmotoring.com/story_img/bigimage/1359015848A6325.jpg

^ do want!

the more i look at the yamaha the more i want one... perimeter box aluminum frame and swingarm... should handle better than the ninja after suspension mods and on slicks... might be a ninja killer

i would buy it.