Hey y'all, I'm looking into learning to ride more performance oriented, not just straight line acceleration, that's not all that hard, but mostly cornering and proper maximum braking, etc, techniques. I'm looking for info online with theories and stuff, as well a a good local course that would provide the info needed, as well as something more than 10mph in a parking lot, like the basic riders course (learned some, but not as much as I hoped), which I took a little more than a year ago.

I am thinking about taking an advanced ride course, but have heard that it is just a little more in-depth version of the basic course, and I really can't rationalize the cost for that kind of information again. I am thinking more alone the line of track training. Anyone have any good sites for the basics? Or any good sites that offer courses/trackdays in SoCal? Thanks!

Travis

Hi Travis! Couple thoughts. First one is that the best way to learn is to put on the miles. There's just no substitute for experience. Unfortunately, if 99% of the riding is just straight freeway or commuting, the amount of miles racked up may not help a rider get past a certain skill level. It takes seat time in the twisties, it takes seat time riding with folks with better skills than yourself. Not to follow them at a blistering pace, but more gradually to see how more skilled folks handle themselves on a bike in different road conditions. In terms of a "pull a number out of thin air" amount of miles, I'd venture that it takes 10k miles before people have a general idea about what they're doing.

And at that point, there are several ways to grow. I think you're spot on in suggesting trackdays. I started doing them 4 years ago, after I had roughly 5 years experience, and maybe 40k miles under my belt. And you very quickly realize, I mean very quickly, that speed on the street means nothing compared to speed at the track. 30+ feet wide perfect pavement, banked turns, all bikes moving in same direction, no cops, no animals, no oncoming traffic, no gravel. Wow. It's motorcycling nirvana.

There are a couple variations of the trackday thing. There are just open trackdays with zero instruction. Pick your group (A - blazing fast B - intermediate, experienced track riders C - riders new to the track). Folks ego's often have them signing up for B straight away, and it only takes a lap or two to realize their mistake. C groups are not for new motorcycle riders, they are for folks who really do know how to ride a bike, but are new to the track environment.

Open trackdays, with no instruction, are actually pretty rare nowadays because all of the trackday providers provide some level of instruction. Typically they have classes throughout the day for the C group, there is often 1-on-1 coaching with a rider watching you around the track, you can always ask for more help, etc.

But there are also specialized track schools, that are a much more structured environment. Keith Code runs one, Jason Pridmore runs one, Freddie Spencer runs one, and there are a few more as well. These are more expensive, roughly two to three times the daily rate of a trackday ($500 - $600/day instead of $150 - $250). But, the instruction is top-notch, you often have the option of renting one of their bikes instead of using your own, and you will grow much faster as a track rider. I've only done one school (Jason's STAR school), and I need to get out to another one.

I've learned a couple things from trackdays:
- as fast as you think you are, you're not. There's always someone who can make you look silly on a motorcycle. Always.
- speed on the street is silly. This doesn't mean all street riders need to tool around at the speed limit or below, but it means that pushing your limits or the bike's limits on the street is silly. Because you're not really pushing any limits, you're just taking undue risk. Trackday experience often makes sportbike riders slow down on the street. It really is an added benefit
- learned how to handle a motorcycle during an "oh-****" moment. In other words, your reflexes really do get better, and you become more confident that you will provide the right inputs to the bike to make it do what you want. You'll have a better idea about what your real limits are, in swerving, braking, and accident avoidance.

If it interests you, I'd definitely look into it. One org that appears to have some SoCal days is: http://ti2tt.com/

Get out there and do a trackday, the Ninja 250 will work fine on the track, I rode around with this guy at Laguna Seca and you can see he was on a Ninja 250, we rode together for the better part of a 20 minute session, unfortunatly he crashed out during the next session and we didn't get a chance to ride together any more that day, BTW he was 15 years old, "track days are a lot of fun"

PS, get good tires:thumbup:

Thanks guys for the input!

Just for refference, I have around 8-9,000 miles of experience, about 50/40/10 city/twisty/highway. I am fortunate to live on a fairly twisty road (which includes gravel *YAY!* :rolleyes: ), and also in a fairly twisty-road area. I am a VERY fast learner (I have to be, I'm an Aerospace Engineering student). I'm not sure if I've said this before, but I'm 20 years old, so that may weigh into whatever info/comments.

Most of my beginning riding was on a 150cc scooter that became a racing project after about 1,000miles on it (currently at about 7,000miles, top speed up 8mph and acceleration up about 30%, to 64mph and a ~4.5sec 0-30 time, hey, those are good numbers for a scooter!!! :D ). I have scraped the kickstand on the left, and the muffler on the right. Not necisarilly skills, but it does show that I ride it hard, mostly in corners.

I hear you on the pushing the limit on the street. I rarely do anything above transportation level as far as performance on the streets goes, though I do push it a bit every once in a while as seen in the racing story thread, where I did the stoplight thing with a camero, piece of cake, but straight line acceleration isn't really riding skill per se.

Thanks for the website, I'll check it out sometime when I have the time, but I need to get some sleep right now, so I'm out of here!

Travis

There's advice to be found on local m/c boards about how to best conquer the different racetracks. The posts are often written by the local fast guy, about how to deal with each and every corner for that perfect lap. Someone took the style of those posts and applied it to taking a ninjette around Infineon (Sears Point). Made me laugh, perhaps it will you as welll... I like how its important in every straight as well as every turn to keep it pinned. Likely not far off from the truth. FWIW, Gary J has done 1:57's around Infineon on a ninjette, so they can be reasonably capable...

Turn 1
Coming up to the chicane at turn one you'll want to hold it wide open. You most likely be pushing 85MPH (Or more!!) around here, so concentration is key. Sit up into the air and push the bar hard left. That should scrub almost all the "speed" you built up over the course of the minute and a half you spent on the front straight.

Turn 2
You're gonna want to be WFO starting up the hill. Make sure to use all 14 of the lil' ninja's ponies through here. Make yourself as small as possible behind the windscreen, lean right a bit and pray nobody on a 600 ass packs you into the dirt.

Turn 3/3a
It's imperative to hold the throttle to the stop through here. You need to carry at least 35mph through the left/right complex on your way down the hill towards 4. Don't even think of touching the brake. The Ninjette will complain a bit, but fear not as gravity will soon be on your side.

Turn 4
Turn 4 is tricky. It looks tighter than it is, so grow a pair and keep it pinned. It's bumpy, but the EX250 stock suspenders are world class. You'll have no trouble holding your line through this fun 20 mph right hander. Watch in amazement as people take a way longer line around you on the outside for no good reason. Weird.

Turn 5
Turn 5 is fast, like 65 mph fast! Time to be on your game, there's no room for error here. Twist the noise tube all the way open and push that bar hard right. Focus on getting a smooth drive towards 6, you'll have plenty of time to relax during the endless cruise down the dragstrip.

Turn 6
Turn 6 is fun. You're gonna want to be at full throttle here, leaning a little to the left through the carousel. Your Dunlop GT501s will want to drift a bit out towards the right, but that's fine. If you're one of those factory EX250 riders with 17" Dot slicks and a fancy pickup truck with a ramp and everything, then this is old news. Sit up straight for the drag strip and use the next 45 seconds to gather your thoughts, plan the rest of the lap, read a book, etc.

Turn 7
Turn 7 is an excellent place for overtaking. Specifically, people with dual front discs overtaking you. Grab some front brake and aim for the curb of the first apex. Now it's full tilt boogie time. On the gas, across apex number two and head for the esses Valentino!

The Esses
Easy. 100% throttle, lean a bit left, lean a bit right. It's really a glorified straight line. If you got a good drive off 7 expect to be hitting speeds in excess of 50 mph (80kph!!!!). Serious business.

8/8a
It's really important that you're WFO through these bad boys. Flop left, flop right and rip down the hill. If you play your cards right you may catch a glimpse of someone popping a sweet wheelie over the crest. Check out that chicane in the distance! You'll be right on top of it in a matter of minutes so start covering the brake at some point.

Turn 9 (The Chicane)
You're scrubbing a ton of speed (sometimes as much as 40 mph!!) on the way to the right/left chicane. Haul the wild 250 down to a manageable speed and nail the transition to setup your freight train drive into 10. This is one of the corner exits that you take full throttle. Don't forget.

Turn 10
Turn 10 is easy to miss if you aren't paying attention. I hear the guys on 4 cylinders talking about drifting from right to left on the power, fighting to stay on line and stuff, but none of that applies to the scalpel that is the EX250. Hold it open through the right hand kink, don't be afraid to use 5th gear if you need it! If you aren't on the gas, you're getting passed. Sometimes even then. Often times really.

Turn 11
Turn 11 is the last thing standing between you and the start/finish. Your drive through here can make or break your whole lap. Try full throttle, full lean. Tuck in, chin on the tank! Cross that line like a rocket ship from hell, or more like a rental car from Calcutta really.

And that's a screaming 2.1x minute lap of Infineon on an EX250. Have fun!

(original thread (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246183))