View Full Version : DIY: Another Hardlocking Saddlebags w/ Quicklock


setasai
July 5th, 2011, 06:07 PM
As per slolane's thread, using his inspiration, I came up with this bracket system. I used 1inch square aluminum tubing with steel hex bolts and steel T-braces to mount the bracket to the undertail of the bike.

I think overall, with the hardcase on the bike, it looks pretty good. Once removed, those brackets are ugly as hell. I have yet to paint them because I think I want to make a few tweaks to the height and width of the brackets so that it holds the cases closer to the bike. After I paint them black or maybe, just maybe, wrap them in carbon fiber cloth, it'll hopefully look less out of place.

I went this route because it would allow for passengers with the location of the cases farther back, and because it is easily removable as givi has intended. This also allows me to move the givi cases to another bike if I so choose.

Here is the most comprehensive list I can come up with:

From Homedepot:
*5/16in Hex bolts w/ washers + nylon locknuts -- should have used 1/4in hex bolts
*1in square aluminum tubing -- might try something thinner or round tubing
*1/2in round aluminum tubing -- used as spacers in the undertail mount around the M6 screws for support
*T-brace to connect the square tubing -- I really wish I could weld the joints instead.

From Lowes:
*M6 x 75mm Hex bolts -- Lowes is the most local place I could find M6 bolts in that length. At other locations the max length is 50mm and that makes it slightly too short. I think I could have also gotten away with 65mm length bolts so that it'll be a shorter distance and thus a stronger mount.

From Twisted-Throttle:
*SW-Motech Quicklock (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/250?) assembly that works with all Givi monokey cases. Just needs to find a way to set them up.

Some caveats of this method:
*without a welder or some way to join pieces of metal it becomes a major pain - I ended up using a hacksaw most of the time just because I could go slow and take my time.
*also because I had to use T-braces and bolts, the whole bracket is heavier than I would like it.

If I were to do it again... I would change the type of tubing I used. Square aluminum tubing is super strong but it looks ugly and doesnt really flow with the style of the bike. I'm thinking about some kind of steel or aluminum tubing and a welder. The bolts also causes it to have a very clunky look. Despite this, I like the location of the cases since it does allow for passengers and makes the bike look a little longer and less compact.

Thanks slolane especially for the inspiration in turning our little ninjas into a more practical bike and possibly a touring bike for me. If anybody has any easy ideas to modify this "prototype" bracket into something sturdier and lighter, please feel free to comment.

Update: To test it's weight limit, I filled the E21's with water and there was little to no sagging anywhere. Looks like those mounts under the tail are pretty strong. I'm impressed.

Jerkson
July 5th, 2011, 06:41 PM
Damn you. Looks good bro. I just ran outta daylight but I'm 90% done my build. I opted for 1/8" cold-rolled steel bar using the attach to seat method. Im guessing you bolted it to the frame using those 4 mount points just behind the tail light, correct?

Is it really sturdy? What bits did you use for the fingers on the bottom that slide into the slots on the sidecases? I was just about to weld the heads of carriage bolts to the bottom bar but yours looks nicer.

Well done :)

setasai
July 5th, 2011, 07:04 PM
Damn you. Looks good bro. I just ran outta daylight but I'm 90% done my build. I opted for 1/8" cold-rolled steel bar using the attach to seat method. Im guessing you bolted it to the frame using those 4 mount points just behind the tail light, correct?

Is it really sturdy? What bits did you use for the fingers on the bottom that slide into the slots on the sidecases? I was just about to weld the heads of carriage bolts to the bottom bar but yours looks nicer.

Well done :)

Haha thanks. Honestly as far as being sturdy goes, I can rock the entire bike using those mounts. When I mount the hardcase, the entire bike shakes but the bracket itself is stable. I was skeptical at first but I saw that in this (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68362&highlight=givi) thread where Shalev bought the official GIVI bracket and it was designed to hold both top and side cases. The only difference is that they have another mount point on the passenger peg bolts.

The quicklock from sw-motech is totally worth it. For $26 it saves you alot of trouble. Btw, damn you too for having a welder. It truely would make this build easier and cleaner.

Also, yes, I mounted it on the 4 bolts. It's only an M6 bolt so you need to make sure you use good bolts and washers to spread the load out onto the frame inside the tail piece.

Btw, it looks massive but I just went out to measure it and the widest part is 32in and the mirrors are 32in. I'm surprised but it's good to know that if the mirrors fit with no problems, the hardcases will too.

bob706
July 5th, 2011, 07:18 PM
:clapping: Awesome!

Jerkson
July 5th, 2011, 07:21 PM
The quicklock from sw-motech is totally worth it. For $26 it saves you alot of trouble. Btw, damn you too for having a welder. It truely would make this build easier and cleaner.

Also, yes, I mounted it on the 4 bolts. It's only an M6 bolt so you need to make sure you use good bolts and washers to spread the load out onto the frame inside the tail piece.

Btw, it looks massive but I just went out to measure it and the widest part is 32in and the mirrors are 32in. I'm surprised but it's good to know that if the mirrors fit with no problems, the hardcases will too.

Nice. I ordered the quicklock....it comes with latching points for the top and those nubs for the bottom?

It makes it hard for me being in Canada as I can only go to the PO box in the US once per week to get my packages. Also, having a welder != knowing how to weld. My welds look atrocious; I'm so sick of grinding. :thumbup:

Im going to build a reinforcing bracket on the seat portion both top and bottom to stiffen it up. The upper passenger foot peg bolt is my backup plan to add rigidity. I plan on painting mine flat-black with rattle can and then if I like how that looks keep it that way while I field test and eventually ..powdercoat it flat black.

I will try to have some pics up and a quick build thread like this when I'm done.

Paint it black and I guarantee it will look smaller :)

setasai
July 5th, 2011, 07:31 PM
Nice. I ordered the quicklock....it comes with latching points for the top and those nubs for the bottom?

Yes it comes with the latch at the top, the nubs at the bottom, and rubber stubs to keep it stable. Basically everything you would need if you wanted to mount it to a flat piece of metal. It's just tough because we're being minimalistic.

It makes it hard for me being in Canada as I can only go to the PO box in the US once per week to get my packages. Also, having a welder != knowing how to weld. My welds look atrocious; I'm so sick of grinding. :thumbup:

Haha you and me both. I spent alot of time cutting and filing those metal edges.

Im going to build a reinforcing bracket on the seat portion both top and bottom to stiffen it up. The upper passenger foot peg bolt is my backup plan to add rigidity. I plan on painting mine flat-black with rattle can and then if I like how that looks keep it that way while I field test and eventually ..powdercoat it flat black.

I will try to have some pics up and a quick build thread like this when I'm done.

Paint it black and I guarantee it will look smaller :)

That's what I'm hoping for. Use a semi-gloss black. Flat black will look too cheap. I think if it doesnt have that silver reflection, it'd be less noticable and I'll like it more. Still have a few small things to iron out before that.

Goodluck, looking forward to seeing it.

slolane
July 5th, 2011, 09:22 PM
Hey Brian, great job!! :thumbup:

Very well thought out, your project turned out really nice. I think once the brackets are black they will appear much smaller, I'm interested to see how often you take the cases off once you start using them. Nice job on being able to keep the rear seat functional and I agree, the bike looks longer with them mounted back a little.

:thumbup:

NathanF
July 5th, 2011, 09:27 PM
Great work! I'm excited to see more people working on this.

Some ramblings: Before redoing entire project due to looks, get some plugs (http://www.central-steel.net/1inchsquare10to14gaugeribbedplastictubingplug.aspx) for the ends and paint it black. I bet that will make it down right disappear. Remember, because you painstakingly built it, you will focus on it and see every flaw there is. This is also why food tastes better when someone else makes it. :D

Another thought - what about making the side rack brackets easily removable? I see that you have two bolts that connect a T bracket from the bike mounted bar to the bag-holding bars. Instead of two predrilled holes, you could cut a channel such that you could slide in and tighten down some captive knob nuts for easy removal, rather than having carefully thread and wrench down two separate bolts. The question of stability (especially over a long ride) would be an issue, but it's something worth considering.

Keep us posted as you tinker with this. This is quite the engieering challenge, sinces it seems Kawasaki has done everything in their power to make adding saddle bags awkard and difficult. That's the cost of pretty I suppose. ;)

Thanks for taking the time to take pics, it really contributes a lot!

setasai
July 5th, 2011, 09:46 PM
Hey Brian, great job!! :thumbup:

Very well thought out, your project turned out really nice. I think once the brackets are black they will appear much smaller, I'm interested to see how often you take the cases off once you start using them. Nice job on being able to keep the rear seat functional and I agree, the bike looks longer with them mounted back a little.

:thumbup:

Yeah, I'll see what happens. Taking them off is moreso for when I get to a destination. Call it CarryIn Luggage if you will. I imagine the scenario of me riding to a hotel or friend's place and just bring the cases in holding all my clothes and toiletries. I'm also super excited to bring home my first chinese takeout meal using these sidecases. I swear, I work a lot for food. =)

Great work! I'm excited to see more people working on this.

Some ramblings: Before redoing entire project due to looks, get some plugs (http://www.central-steel.net/1inchsquare10to14gaugeribbedplastictubingplug.aspx) for the ends and paint it black. I bet that will make it down right disappear. Remember, because you painstakingly built it, you will focus on it and see every flaw there is. This is also why food tastes better when someone else makes it. :D

Another thought - what about making the side rack brackets easily removable? I see that you have two bolts that connect a T bracket from the bike mounted bar to the bag-holding bars. Instead of two predrilled holes, you could cut a channel such that you could slide in and tighten down some captive knob nuts for easy removal, rather than having carefully thread and wrench down two separate bolts. The question of stability (especially over a long ride) would be an issue, but it's something worth considering.

Keep us posted as you tinker with this. This is quite the engieering challenge, sinces it seems Kawasaki has done everything in their power to make adding saddle bags awkard and difficult. That's the cost of pretty I suppose. ;)

Thanks for taking the time to take pics, it really contributes a lot!

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually have plastic plugs already purchased ready to go in but before I put them in, I want to be able to remove the bolts and paint it nicely. Not having to remove the plugs just to do that is a lazy move on my part.

As for the removal of the side brackets, I was thinking the main cross bar running under the tail would be an easier one to take off. It's just 2-5/16in bolts straight up connecting to another bracket. I built this whole thing to be modular just in case something messes up and also so that others that might be trying to do something similar can get some ideas. The undertail mount was SUPER easy to put together, it was the cross bar and the brackets to connect to the quicklocks that took alot of precision cutting and drilling.

Btw, If anybody wants to attempt something similar, I can give measurements for every part which would get you close.

Alex
July 6th, 2011, 12:23 AM
/linked from main diy sticky

bob706
July 6th, 2011, 06:10 AM
Just a thought but could something like http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6805/704/ work as an alternative starting point for side bags?

Jerkson
July 6th, 2011, 06:13 AM
You could...but that involves welding/bolting onto a $140 bracket. That's almost the cost of both sidecases. I believe the idea here was to keep costs at a minimum.

setasai
July 6th, 2011, 09:12 AM
You could...but that involves welding/bolting onto a $140 bracket. That's almost the cost of both sidecases. I believe the idea here was to keep costs at a minimum.

He's right. Givi makes brackets for both top and side case in I think from another thread but it costs around $425 shipped from overseas just for the brackets.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68362&highlight=givi

I probably spent $200 for the side cases, $26 on the quicklock mechanism, and around another $30-$40 on aluminum and bolts. The kicker is I spent probably around 3 full days working on it. Mainly because of measurements and drilling and cutting the metal. I dont have very metal tools so I used hacksaws and handheld drills with hand files the whole time.

setasai
July 8th, 2011, 01:13 PM
Ok So I spent all day yesterday priming and painting the brackets. I also trimmed a little off the crossbar to get the bags slighly closer to the bike, about 1/2in closer. I am much happier with the result but my paint job kind of sucks so I have some chipping here and there from banging the tools against it. Not sure if spray paint is just that weak or maybe I need to give it more time to cure.

Since I'm impatient, I put it together anyways despite that. Here are some photos of the finished product. Like all of you said, paint it black and it'll look better. You were all once again so right. Fits very well. I also put those plastic plugs on the end of the tube.

Goodluck to all those wanting to attempt this project. I have to say that personally, every other maintenance work is easier to do than this. Dont get me wrong, it's totally worth it but dont expect to just walk into the hardware store once and be done with it. So many different things came up as I was working. For one thing, the brackets were in the way of the rear turn signals and so I moved them back more but to get to the connections, I had to take the entire tail piece off and reroute the wiring. Worked out better though because now the sidecases dont obscure them.

Apologies for the sideways pictures. Not sure why it's like that. Looks fine on my computer.

slolane
July 8th, 2011, 01:28 PM
Great work Brian!! Looks great and very functional. Based on your project mine seems to be much easier... adding the quick removal brackets and mounting the cases back a bit further made it more of a chore. Again, looks great!!!

setasai
July 8th, 2011, 01:42 PM
Great work Brian!! Looks great and very functional. Based on your project mine seems to be much easier... adding the quick removal brackets and mounting the cases back a bit further made it more of a chore. Again, looks great!!!

Haha, Yea definitely. I think alot of it has to do with the fact that I used the undertail bolts instead of resting the unit on the seat pan. Weight distribution becomes very different when that happens. Cant wait to see what Jerkson comes up with. While currently it's sturdy, I dont know if the undertail bolts can handle a topcase along with it. One day we'll find out. Thanks again for the inspiration. I doubt I'd have attempted it without seeing how it turned out on yours.

slolane
July 8th, 2011, 07:28 PM
Haha, Yea definitely. I think alot of it has to do with the fact that I used the undertail bolts instead of resting the unit on the seat pan. Weight distribution becomes very different when that happens. Cant wait to see what Jerkson comes up with. While currently it's sturdy, I dont know if the undertail bolts can handle a topcase along with it. One day we'll find out. Thanks again for the inspiration. I doubt I'd have attempted it without seeing how it turned out on yours.

Glad I could help, this mod really turned my bike into primary transportation for me allowing me to ride A LOT more. Yours really looks great, as said above we are our own worse critic so no worries about a little paint chip or whatever. On mine when I made a little exhaust hanger I had to shorten/cut down the right sidecase bracket support and rebend it... doing so after all painted and all left a small little crinkle but I can live with it for now.

So did you get any take-out on the bike yet? I have several times for dinner, lunch and brought home "doggy-bags" from restaurants... :thumbup:

setasai
July 8th, 2011, 11:06 PM
So did you get any take-out on the bike yet? I have several times for dinner, lunch and brought home "doggy-bags" from restaurants... :thumbup:

Haha no not yet but that's because I just finished today and went out for drinks instead with some friends. I'll be preping it up for a 900mile roundtrip from NorCal to SoCal in about a week so it will get used very soon.

NathanF
July 8th, 2011, 11:09 PM
Haha no not yet but that's because I just finished today and went out for drinks instead with some friends. I'll be preping it up for a 900mile roundtrip from NorCal to SoCal in about a week so it will get used very soon.

Be sure to get at least one fairly decent ride in before then. You don't want to find some unexpected issue half way through your trip. And make sure you're bringing the tools necessary to tighten / adjust any of the bolts on the mount if the need should arrise. I think you know where you can store said tools! :thumbup:

NathanF
August 6th, 2011, 01:56 AM
Any chance you can post another pic or two of the mounting point underneath the seat? Also, one looking down with the rear seat removed if there is anything visibly different in there.

Thanks!

setasai
August 6th, 2011, 08:31 AM
Any chance you can post another pic or two of the mounting point underneath the seat? Also, one looking down with the rear seat removed if there is anything visibly different in there.

Thanks!

Yea sure. I'll get to that tonight after our group ride. Wont be till atleast 6-7pm tonight though. The picture looking down with the seat removed might be tough to see anything because I have other things mounted blocking the view but i'll give it a shot.

Guitarman823
August 7th, 2011, 09:58 PM
Great Job! Looks like the finished product will be very useful.
Do your side cases click on and off? Or are the bolted on?
Maybe that is what the quick-lock attachments do? ;0)
Anyway Looks Great! Oh, and Enjoy your Trip!

setasai
August 7th, 2011, 10:57 PM
Great Job! Looks like the finished product will be very useful.
Do your side cases click on and off? Or are the bolted on?
Maybe that is what the quick-lock attachments do? ;0)
Anyway Looks Great! Oh, and Enjoy your Trip!

Yea they come on and off exactly like how givi intended them to.

Sorry Nathan, havent gotten to the pictures yet. Been quite busy.

Alex
August 7th, 2011, 10:59 PM
They look great on the bike! :thumbup:

setasai
August 7th, 2011, 11:03 PM
They look great on the bike! :thumbup:

Thanks Alex. Surprisingly, It didnt feel much different in the handling department on our ride. Might have felt just a hair more stable with the extra weight. Cant be sure since I wasnt really paying attention to it.

NathanF
August 7th, 2011, 11:26 PM
Yea they come on and off exactly like how givi intended them to.

Sorry Nathan, havent gotten to the pictures yet. Been quite busy.

No worries! I may actually be just fine without them, if you can answer a few questions:

1) Did you put a metal flatbar cross bar on top of the rear frame, like what is provided with the genuine Givi rack? Or did you just use the four existing bolt holes as is?

2) Is the frame mounted totally perpendicular to the four bolt holes, or did you build a slant in somewhere to make the bags sit more level?

3) Are the trapezoidal brackets you made 1 inch square tube as well, or something else?

Thanks.

By the way...right about now I'm dreaming of T-brackets. Welding is a lot more difficult than it looks.. I've already wasted $10 of metal just practicing, and I'm still not able to reliability produce good clean welds.

setasai
August 7th, 2011, 11:40 PM
No worries! I may actually be just fine without them, if you can answer a few questions:

1) Did you put a metal flatbar cross bar on top of the rear frame, like what is provided with the genuine Givi rack? Or did you just use the four existing bolt holes as is?

2) Is the frame mounted totally perpendicular to the four bolt holes, or did you build a slant in somewhere to make the bags sit more level?

3) Are the trapezoidal brackets you made 1 inch square tube as well, or something else?

Thanks.

By the way...right about now I'm dreaming of T-brackets. Welding is a lot more difficult than it looks.. I've already wasted $10 of metal just practicing, and I'm still not able to reliability produce good clean welds.

1) There is no metal flatbar. I thought it might be a concern/problem but I figured that the welds are factory made and most welds will probably be able to handle any weight I can throw at it. I do not have a topcase though. If I ever add a topcase to the same mount, I may add that flatbar cross bar. Be sure to use loctite on the nuts.

2) For sake of simplicity, I mounted them totally perpendicular. It kind of flows with the bike leaving them on an angle.

3) Yes, they are 1inch square tubing as well. Just cut so that the long side is 3inches and the short side is 1inch. Angle it so that you lose an even amount on each side. I should also mention that at the time, I was going to use steel so the trapazoidal brackets are steel but the rest are all aluminum. You will also want to use aluminum tubing as spacers to keep the brackets snug. Unless you have a better idea, let me know.

The T-brackets are actually very secure. I only have one complaint about it and that's the bolts. Had I known how to weld, i'd have done the T-brackets anyway but without bolts. Welds dont need to be super pretty. You can also use an angle grinder or dremel to clean up your welds and once you paint it, you wont see alot of the blemeshes. Goodluck and let me know if you have anymore questions.

setasai
August 8th, 2011, 11:08 AM
Here is a picture of the trapezoidal bracket for the undertail. I tried to put a piece of paper in the back for contrast but couldnt get it to fit any higher up. Hope this helps.

NathanF
August 13th, 2011, 09:20 PM
Here is a picture of the trapezoidal bracket for the undertail. I tried to put a piece of paper in the back for contrast but couldnt get it to fit any higher up. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the additional pic, and all the answers above. (Incidentally, those are all the answers I wanted to hear, since they are the path of least resistance. :rolleyes:)

A few more questions:

1) What does the purpose of the rubber between the joints serve?

2) Have you noticed any instability or rattling with the case due to the T nature of the main rack, especially when it's not very full or empty? I was thinking it could be a H on its side rather than an upside down T to fix that, but it would be more weight.

3) Do the trapezoidal brackets need to be notched out to wrench down the main four bolts, or could I get away with just the 45 degree cut without any notching?

(By the way, you're going to hate me...I bought this from Amazon for $199 shipped: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5k5tJvjygQ It is absolutely amazing for the price. Just cut the trapezoidal brackets, minus the notch. About 5 seconds per cut. No sparks, no heat, no hacksaw :thumbup:.)

setasai
August 13th, 2011, 10:13 PM
1) rubber was for vibrational dampening between the body and the case. Not sure if it's necessary. I just thought it'd be nice so that it gives the mount a little flexibility.

2) zero instability or rattling with the case even with the nature. I did put a rubber stopper on the lower T area to keep the case tensioned.

3) No notching is necessary. The notching was because initially i used shorter bolts and the trapazoidal piece was interfering with the turn signal/hooks. Since I used longer bolts, I was able to extend it lower but I was lazy so I didnt bother making new brackets.

That tool looks amazing. Kinda like a miter saw with different blade on it. I wonder if they sell the blades so that i can just put it on my miter saw and be done with it.

Goodluck. I'm glad you're learning from all of our builds. I love my mount. It could be cleaner but it's definitely holding up just fine. I do have one modification that I plan on adding. I want to get longer bolts from mcmaster and put a flatbar crossbar for extra strength but i figured it can be done later.

Awaiting your finished product.

NathanF
August 14th, 2011, 02:08 AM
Good to know about the notch, that will save some time. I think I might try the rubber idea as well.

As for Evolution, they do sell blades. Unfortunately, chop saws run much faster than metal cutting saws, so it's considered a Bad Idea to use them on steel. Also, they're not sealed against the metal chips that go flying, which is not ideal. I know all this because I had the same idea as you.

I've decided I am definitely going to do a flat bar across the top for extra support. The factory threads are obviously not intended or designed to hold this kind of downward weight. They might do it just fine in perpetuity, but I don't want to worry about it.

Getting the proper sized bolt has me a bit concerned though. Most of the longer bolts out there are not threaded all the way. For this application, the threads need to be longer than the distance from the top of the flatbar to the bottom of the pre-existed threaded hole in the frame. Too short, and the bolt won't reach, since the non-threaded portion will not pass through the existing threaded hole.

That also means the length of the bolt has to be just right. That shouldn't be too difficult to figure out, but it seems most places that sell bolts don't list the length of the threaded portion. I don't really want to shell out $10-20 for bolts shipped only to find out they don't work.

Buying M6 threaded rod solves this whole problem, but I haven't found any M6 threaded rod that is class 12.9, where as the socket bolts in the 90mm+ variety are all 12.9.

Any thoughts? Also, how long are your spacers? I'm thinking about offsetting the main bar as to decrease the length of mine, since those bolts are probably the weakest part of the whole thing. I might not bother though, especially if I can get class 12.9 for the four main bolts.

setasai
August 14th, 2011, 08:55 AM
The bolts were my main issue as well. Which is why i had the notches originally because the bolts were from home depot and those were the longest that they had. I also used a trapazoidal shape for that same reason. I needed extra length to clear the undertail. All this was solved when I found longer bolts from lowes except like you said, they are not threaded all the way. You could try threading your own if you have the tools. Otherwise, this is the same limitations that I've encountered.

This also leads me to my next statement about the spacers. The spacers are just a hair longer than all the thicknesses of the washer and trapazoidal piece plus whatever non-threaded part of the bolt is. I wanted that section to have some tension on it. FYI, the frame is not threaded. The undertail threaded portion is completely seperate from the rest of the bike so the only thing holding that apparatus up are the 4 nuts that you'll be using on the top side. Hence the great idea for the crossbar. If you solve my bolt issue, let me know as i'd like to swap those out as well.

NathanF
August 17th, 2011, 11:32 PM
Thanks for the additional info.

Finally got a few minutes to work on this. Got the two trapezoidal brackets cut, and the two main holes on each drilled. I determined spacers that were 1 7/8" long allowed me to a) have clearance for the main bar not to hit fender, b) not prematurely bottom out the unthreaded portion of the bolt in the undertail bracket, and c) allow enough room on top to get a nut on. This is with a 65mm bolt.

It's tight though; I don't really have any additional room for washers.

Anyway, I put a piece of cardboard across the top of the frame and measured the difference. Looks like 100mm bolts would do the job. Going to see if a friend of mine has an metric tap and die set. Not sure how feasible it is though to thread the smooth shank of a 12.9 grade steel bolt.

I can see why you said to hell with the cross bar. It really seems nice and solid without it.

setasai
August 18th, 2011, 09:51 AM
Sweet. Thanks for the update. Glad to help. If you can find a way to easily make those longer bolts or purchase them, let me know. I'd like a pair as well for security and piece of mind purposes.

NathanF
August 18th, 2011, 06:27 PM
Alright, here's what I have to report:

1) I found a local place that, unbelievably, sells M6 x 1.00 socket bolts up to 110mm in grade 12.9 steel. About $1 a piece, much better than the huge costs online with shipping. I bought 110mm and 70mm lengths. The 70mm fit my two rear mount points without bottoming out or leaving too short of bolt left to get a nut on.

2) Using an M6 die, I was able to add threads to a standard Lowes 8.8 partially threaded bolt with relative ease. Trying the same with a 12.9 grade bolt == fail. Not a chance in hell, at least not with my friend's Craftsmen made-in-the-USA somewhat decent quality tap and die set.

That leaves us three options:

a) Get a coupler nut, and use two bolts to bridge the distance. Main bolt would go up into the coupler nut, then short bolt goes through cross bar from top into same coupler below. Downsides is lack of continuous bolt holding the whole thing together, and unlikelihood of finding rated coupler nut.

b) Drill the undertail threads out. Lets us use one continuous high grade bolt without any breaks. Downside is that it modifies the bike in a non-fixable way.

c) Forget the crossbar entirely and hope for the best. (Keeping in mind that the whole mount breaking loose could very well result in death.)

I'm leaning towards option B. Even though it is a permanent mod to the bike (which I have never done, and don't normally do if I can help it) undoing it would simply mean a nut and a slightly longer socket bolt. Should be invisible / unnoticeable both functionally and aesthetically in terms of selling the bike in the future.

What do you think?

(By the way, let me know if you need any of the aforementioned bolts. I will be going back to that local place, and could buy and ship them at cost to you.)

setasai
August 18th, 2011, 07:50 PM
Thats a tough one. I think I would lean towards option C until I decide to add the topcase and then i'll switch to option B... maybe. I'm sure there's a way to get those bolts somewhere fully threaded. Will have to keep looking.

Let me know what you decide to do. I dont plan on adding the crossbar until I get the funds to possibly add a topcase mount to it.

NathanF
August 23rd, 2011, 06:54 PM
Progress!

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3690/img0494ra.jpg

The welds are ass ugly and probably totally amateur and wrong in every way, but it doesn't budge if I try and use all my might to break it.

By the way, how far apart are your cases? The measurement I'm most interested in is the outside of the metal T bars on one side to the outside on the other side.

setasai
August 23rd, 2011, 07:20 PM
It's about 16-3/8" from outside of the bar to the outside on the other bar. I recommend you cut a slightly longer piece and mount it to the undertail first. Then trim the metal bar on each side until the cases are where you want them then weld it together. This way if your undertail bolt holes are a little off, you wont be lopsided.

NathanF
August 23rd, 2011, 09:04 PM
Good advice, I will do exactly that. My real worry is not messing up the weld, since it will mean redoing one or both of the T brackets if I screw it up. :eek:

I noticed in one of your pics that you have two holes drilled on the bottom part of the T bar that are empty. Were these for rubber nubs that you decided shouldn't be there? Or were they just not installed yet in the pic?

Seemed to me like a good place to put them in addition to the main vertical bar, but if you found out later it was not, I'd like to know why.

setasai
August 23rd, 2011, 09:20 PM
Haha, funny you should mention that. Yes, they were initially intended for rubber nubs but you know what I found out? They got in the way of installing the case because the case needed to slide down into the slots and the sliding would push the nubs downwards. So, best place to put it is somewhere above so that it's not in the way of the sliding motion of the case and when you snap the case it keeps everything tight.

In the photo where I circled, I ended up putting chair bumpers there screwed in place. The thickness of the bumper was perfect because it provided tension against the case so it didnt bounce.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1286055

I couldnt find black ones so I used white ones anyway. They're the perfect thickness so use that as a guide I guess.

setasai
August 24th, 2011, 12:14 PM
Hey NathanF, If i could ask you, what kind of welding setup do you have? I'm looking to get into welding at some point as well but have no idea where to start.

NathanF
August 24th, 2011, 08:25 PM
I bought a Pro Mig 140 from Lowes (http://www.lowes.com/pd_256722-1703-K2480-1_0__?storeId=10151&Ntt=pro+mig&UserSearch=pro+mig&productId=1072945&N=0&catalogId=10051&langId=-1) with a 10 percent off coupon. (You can get the coupon from the Post Office for free in a movers packet.) Came to be something like $470. It's one step above the cheaper Lincoln Handy Mig that is half as powerful (70 amps compared to 140) and costs around $300-350, and significantly better than the cheapo Harbor Freight welders.

Also bought a tank of Argon/CO2 that was $120 at AirGas. (A smaller tank is also available for $85 or so filled.) You don't need shield gas since this welder can do flux core wire that has it built in, but you get much prettier, cleaner welds with it.

The stand is Harbor Freight, as is the $40-50 auto darkening welding helmet which has been working wonderfully. Also got some welding gloves for $10, and leather apron.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4462/img0502e.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6637/img0504sr.jpg

NathanF
August 24th, 2011, 08:29 PM
OK, so my next question for you. How close can you mount the case to the exhaust before it starts cooking?

I want it as close as possible to minimize the height. Is this too close? (half an inch or so)

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2707/img0500id.jpg

setasai
August 24th, 2011, 08:40 PM
OK, so my next question for you. How close can you mount the case to the exhaust before it starts cooking?

I want it as close as possible to minimize the height. Is this too close? (half an inch or so)

Cool, thanks for the info the on the welder. 1/2 inch is fine. I've got mine pretty damn close and it's been fine so far. Not even the slightest bit warm. I think it's because the pipe in the exhaust is actually tapered downwards just enough that the hot air blows right past the case. Also, at speed, air blows between the space and keeps most of the heat away from it. For more reassurance, I did some research on if anybody at all has reported melting plastic from exhaust cans and I've come up with zero reports.

NathanF
August 25th, 2011, 02:06 PM
That sounds reasonable to me.

I was just thinking about welding them up once and for all, but I realized that if I go the rubber route it will change the height a little bit. So I have to decide now before I weld it up if I should put rubber in between like yours.

Do you think it's worth doing? If so, where did you get your rubber? I was thinking I could cut some from those flexible drain pipe fittings you see at Home Depot, though that stuff is probably harder than what you have.

setasai
August 25th, 2011, 02:24 PM
Our minds think alike. That is actually exactly what it is. Drain pipe rubber. I had some lying around the house so I used it. Honestly, i'm not sure it's necessary but I feel better knowing that there is some give in the mount. Especially since it's all connected directly to the frame. It also provides some form of height adjustment. I can tighten it to raise the whole mount or if it's too high, I can swap it out for a couple washers.

At the time all I wanted was as much adjustability as possible since it's a DIY, it would suck if i messed up and needed to trim things or shim things. Metal isnt the easiest thing to work with for someone like me that doesnt have very many tools.

NathanF
August 25th, 2011, 06:45 PM
Funny! I'm glad you didn't say great minds think alike, since my usual response to that is that fools seldom differ.

Just got the rubber from Lowes, and now I need to go back to get longer bolts. It's only my 15th trip today, so no worries. :thumbup:

Speaking of which, I was pretty precise with my drilling for the two 5/16" bolts that mount the cross bar to the bike. That being the case, my bar when loosely attached can hardly rock at all. Did you enlarge your holes to allow some movement w/the rubber, or are yours exactly 5/16ths as well?

Just wondering if the rubber will do much without some freedom to move...then again, I haven't put it all together yet and given it a shake.

setasai
August 25th, 2011, 07:28 PM
You got lucky in being able to be precise with the holes. My holes were a little larger because the lack of a drill press has caused the holes on the trapazoidal piece to be off center. As a result the extra space in the crossbar allowed me that extra wiggle room.

Honest to god, I havent the slightest clue if the rubber will do anything. I put them on because it makes me feel better. You can try it without and see what happens. We're kinda venturing into uncharted territory so try it and see what happens. :thumbup:

NathanF
August 28th, 2011, 02:23 AM
Yah, drilling metal is pain. I don't have a drill press either, so I did it all by hand. Here is what I have learned from making mistakes in the past:

1) Always use a punch to keep the bit from wandering. These (http://www.harborfreight.com/28-piece-transfer-punch-set-3577.html) work wonderfully, since they can be used as a regular punch, or a transfer punch if you need to drill a hole to match perfectly with an existing hole.

2) Without a drill press, if you need to go through square tube, it's better to measure and do separate holes from each side.

3) Digital calipers are your friend. I use these (http://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR100-Digital-Calipers-Fractions/dp/B001PTGBR6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314523042&sr=8-1).

Anyway, I got the main bracket all welded, and the paint is drying now. It ended up being too far to the right by maybe 1/4 inch. I made the holes bigger to compensate, which will also allow for the rubber to actually do its job.

I am 100 percent sure the cross bar is a good idea. When I put this whole thing on and rocked it, I could see the frame of the motorcycle rock, with each tube twisting up and down. A cross bar should fix that, and I'm going to try to do it using a coupler nut. The more I think about it, the less I want to permanently drill anything in my bike.

By the way, have you thought about what this mount will do in a drop or crash? I have a sneaking suspicion it might make tweaking the frame super easy. Almost makes me want to ditch my grade 12.9 bolts for cheapo ones. I'd much rather them snap than the frame get bent...

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/9119/img0511w.jpg

setasai
August 28th, 2011, 11:09 AM
Wow looks good. I told you about the bolt holes and mounting the cross piece and cut to fit. It's just super difficult when you're putting all these things together.

I have thought about what would happen in a crash and that was my reasoning for using aluminum. FYI, with my aluminum setup, I filled both sidecases with water (21L each but not filled to the max so estimated 18L --> 18kg each --> x2 --> 36kg approx --> x2.2lbs --> greater than 72lbs total) and there was only a little sagging of the aluminum cross bar but it felt stable. That was good enough justification that the mounts are strong enough.

As for tweaking the frame, I dont think the sideways forces are going to have anywhere else to go but twist the frame no matter what you used. Moral of the story, just mount it and hope for the best. There's no real engineering basis for our mounts. Just trial and error. Lets hope none of us need to test crash forces.

NathanF
August 28th, 2011, 11:51 PM
You're right, it is difficult, and really hard to get perfect. I did exactly like you said with the bolt holes, but it still ended up slightly off. Making the holes bigger on the horizontal bar fixed that perfectly though.

I also suspect you're right about the sideways forces. This kind of mount will hurt your frame. But that's just more encouragement not to crash or drop the bike. :rolleyes: But if you do, it's a cheap bike anyway, so it would probably be totaled anyway.

Anyway, I'm all done and posted! Take a look: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=357744#post357744

setasai
September 30th, 2011, 04:52 PM
Ater much deliberation, NathanF and I have finally figured out a solution.

Two problems needed to be solved. 1) exhaust heat from muffler itself and 2) exhaust gases grazing the bottom of the sidecase

1) exhaust heat - solved by using some heatshield foil that reflects radiant heat.

2) exhaust gases - solved by adding some kind of turn down tip to deflect the gas.

What I did was use a 90deg elbow from a 1inch steel conduit line found at home depot for ~$4. Cut a piece of it at an angle that I liked then cut some 1/4inch tabs to bend out as securing tabs.

Definitely keeps the bags cool and doesnt really impede flow in anyway since the pipe is slightly bigger than the exhaust pipes anyways. After testing it out, I used a dremel to remove all of the galvanized coating and then smoothed it out with sandpaper and steel wool. Once that was all taken care of, it was painted with Rustoleum High Heat matte black paint.

I think it looks nice. I quite like how it turned out. Goodluck to anybody else attempting a similar task to our ninja's. Sidecases from what I can tell are now a complete project.

bob706
November 18th, 2011, 09:55 AM
Just finished my copy of this set up last night. Now I know why a purpose built luggage system cost what they do! But this set up is awesome and well worth the time, money and blood. :thumbup:

setasai
November 18th, 2011, 10:05 AM
Just finished my copy of this set up last night. Now I know why a purpose built luggage system cost what they do! But this set up is awesome and well worth the time, money and blood. :thumbup:

I'm glad! Photos please. I'd like to see how it turned out and what you used.

bob706
November 19th, 2011, 04:40 PM
I'm glad! Photos please. I'd like to see how it turned out and what you used.

Turned out the same as yours pretty much. Only not as good looking :p. I kinda went overboard on using bolts. I rode with the bags today and did not have one problem. Got some good compliments and some folks asked if it was a kit. Just got finished priming and painting. Tomorrow I'm gonna try to spray on some plasti-dip and see how that goes. Great idea and design Brian :thumbup:

setasai
November 19th, 2011, 11:24 PM
Cool! Thanks! That makes 4 of us with Sidecases on a newgen 250 that I know about. Enjoy them. They totally rock!