I have approached the ex-ninjetters lair in search of wise words, please be kind. I hope this thread can be of use not only to myself but to other ninjette owners, and I hope that this thread is in the right place.

What can anyone that's upgraded to a larger engine sized bike offer, advise-wise, to someone like me, who is currently riding a 250 but would one day like to ride a 600?

Such as (but not limited to) :

What particularly about having a 250 beforehand has prepared you for a larger bike?

What specifically should someone like me (looking to get a 600 one day) learn from a 250 that would be difficult or more dangerous to learn on a bigger bike?

What are the major differences to expect, and how to deal with them (IE:increased weight and power)?

Is it harder to maneuver the bike up and down the drive way or in the garage while in neutral(somewhat trivial yet interesting things as well)?

Does anyone have examples of getting a bigger bike and not being comfortable with it? or maybe doing something stupid that they wouldn't have done if they were on a 250? (although people may not always be comfortable with their mistakes, others can always learn from them)

Please share your experience and examples! I would love to hear everyone's opinions :)

Throttle control. Have it mastered on the 250 before you upgrade, cause one mistake on an SS and your tire slides out, or you end up on your back.

Look into further education. Like the total control riding clinic by Lee
Parks. Or find a track day riding class.
Riding any type of motorcycle properly is a mater of being tought how to do it.Things like trail breaking, throttle control ,counter steering. It becomes more critical to know in your mind what to do as speed incerases. You don't need a bigger bike to do this .But when you do get a 600 or a 1000 it is best to ride slow and work on techniques .
The track is MUCH safer for practice.So being intimidated by the track and riding on the street is backwards thinking.Just think safety first

http://youtu.be/wWQWUI-JfR0

What Racer X said x 1000.

You can be taught how to properly apply technique and you should strive to practice and perfect those techniques if not on a track then in a controllable environment ie: not on the street. Definitely throttle control and situational awareness are huge.

You can get away with a lot more on the 250, it's best to start now in recognizing and avoiding those situations that might get you into trouble on a SS. This really helps in concert with throttle control....250's don't really have much of a traction issue, big bikes can if you aren't careful.

At 15 years I've still only been riding a fraction of some of the people here and I still learn more about riding every day. The basics must be mastered as I witnessed back when I started riding the 250 to work everyday and then switching to the RC51 on the weekends. I would probably have bin'd my RC had I not mentally prepared for the change. A handful of go on the 250 is a millimeter on the RC.

I have approached the ex-ninjetters lair in search of wise words, please be kind. I hope this thread can be of use not only to myself but to other ninjette owners, and I hope that this thread is in the right place.

What can anyone that's upgraded to a larger engine sized bike offer, advise-wise, to someone like me, who is currently riding a 250 but would one day like to ride a 600?

Such as (but not limited to) :

What particularly about having a 250 beforehand has prepared you for a larger bike?

What specifically should someone like me (looking to get a 600 one day) learn from a 250 that would be difficult or more dangerous to learn on a bigger bike?

What are the major differences to expect, and how to deal with them (IE:increased weight and power)?

Is it harder to maneuver the bike up and down the drive way or in the garage while in neutral(somewhat trivial yet interesting things as well)?

Does anyone have examples of getting a bigger bike and not being comfortable with it? or maybe doing something stupid that they wouldn't have done if they were on a 250? (although people may not always be comfortable with their mistakes, others can always learn from them)

Please share your experience and examples! I would love to hear everyone's opinions :)


First of all, are you looking to get a 600?

I think the Suzuki 750 is the next step up from a 250. The 750 is more rideable than a 600.

If you are looking for more power I suggest you do some trackdays or a racing school for some high sped experience.


I find a bigger bike might be harder in your driveway but easier on the road.

First of all, are you looking to get a 600?

I think the Suzuki 750 is the next step up from a 250. The 750 is more rideable than a 600.

If you are looking for more power I suggest you do some trackdays or a racing school for some high sped experience.


I find a bigger bike might be harder in your driveway but easier on the road.

every experienced guy i've spoken to has always said this... "get the 750, don't bother with the 600"... why is that? i haven't had the chance to ride a 750 yet... is it just the smoother power band? it seems like they both have more than enough power but is the 600 more top-end crazy? the 750 you can more easily get around at 1/8th throttle?

The gsxr 750 msrp is $11,999 and the gsxr 600 msrp is $11,699. If I were i shopping for a brand new bike (which I doubt will ever happen) and looking at a gsxr, I would choose the extra $300 for the 750. It seems like more bang for your buck.

a safe rider always ride defensively and has a good attitude with respect for the road and the bike regardless what size bike you ride.

A 250 as your first bike is inexpensive and easy to learn on. The fundamentals are all the same. Would it be easier to learn how to drive a Chevy Cobalt or a Chevy Corvette? Do people take their motorcycle riding tests on Hyabusa's or little Honda Rebel's?

Larger displacement bikes are heavier and, thus, more difficult to manuever. Heavier to hold up. More difficult to roll in neutral.

You could start out on any size bike. There are tons of variables that make one bike more ideal than another. How big are you? How much money do you have to spend? Do you have any motorcycle experience at all? Etc.

There is no absolutley right answer. It comes down to you. A motorcycle is like a stick of dynamite- and you are the fuse. It does what you tell it to do. There is just a larger margin for error as the bikes gets bigger and faster.

What particularly about having a 250 beforehand has prepared you for a larger bike?

What specifically should someone like me (looking to get a 600 one day) learn from a 250 that would be difficult or more dangerous to learn on a bigger bike?

What are the major differences to expect, and how to deal with them (IE:increased weight and power)?

Is it harder to maneuver the bike up and down the drive way or in the garage while in neutral(somewhat trivial yet interesting things as well)?

Does anyone have examples of getting a bigger bike and not being comfortable with it? or maybe doing something stupid that they wouldn't have done if they were on a 250? (although people may not always be comfortable with their mistakes, others can always learn from them)

1. Cornering is the major reason starting out on a 250 IMO should be. It's not hard to learn straight line throttle control, but that's not a major obstacle.
On a 250, if you are in a corner and you twist the throttle too hard it will not put your life in jeopardy. Weight: people will assume you can throw a 600 into corners as if it's a lightweight bike and they will not have the skills required to fix a cornering mistake all because of one issue. So problems can elaborate. Let me tell you, you have to know how to fix your line or mistakes while turning because even getting used to my gxxr600 I've almost come out too wide, but from the 250 I have learned, less throttle more push etc etc.

2. Throttle/clutch control in all cases; from a start and during shifting.
The T/C play is much different and if you have no control and believe since you can get a bike out of gear you can ride...No. You need to treat a 250 controls as though it's a big bike. Then you will at least have some mental practice for 600's+
Obviously as mentioned the cornering/weight differences, explained in 1.
Remember that if you don't let the clutch out slowly with too much throttle; you better have calm reactions and your foot covering the back brake because you will lift your front tires.
When you floor it and shift in high rpm's remember the front can and will lift depending on shifting style.
When maneuvering the bike on foot i.e reversing etc, it is a lot of weight and harder to move around.

3. Explained in 1. and 2.

4. Explained in 2.

5. A lot of people will be scared of the 600's because of the seating position. As a first reaction type thing. Even if they don't drive them it is in some cases the seating position for SOME people scares them.
If this is the case, take a few times sitting on it. Don't turn it on. Just move it forward and back, and sit on it. May seem stupid, but believe me it does improve comfort-ability with the bike.

The power isn't going to kill you while learning if you don't twist the throttle hard. Unlike some people might expect (I thought the same a long time ago)


**PLEASE READ**
My opinions might be a bit mal-stated to some people. SO please ask for clarification if needed.

A 250 as your first bike is inexpensive and easy to learn on. The fundamentals are all the same. Would it be easier to learn how to drive a Chevy Cobalt or a Chevy Corvette? Do people take their motorcycle riding tests on Hyabusa's or little Honda Rebel's?

Larger displacement bikes are heavier and, thus, more difficult to manuever. Heavier to hold up. More difficult to roll in neutral.

You could start out on any size bike. There are tons of variables that make one bike more ideal than another. How big are you? How much money do you have to spend? Do you have any motorcycle experience at all? Etc.

There is no absolutley right answer. It comes down to you. A motorcycle is like a stick of dynamite- and you are the fuse. It does what you tell it to do. There is just a larger margin for error as the bikes gets bigger and faster.

This is the best answer that I have ever heard to the question of starting on a larger-than 250 motorcycle. :thumbup:

Focus on learning how to ride, not how to ride *fast*.
Do some track days on your 250.
It is very easy to float the front end.
Going from carbs (even prefectly tuned ones) to FI is huuuuge.
The bigger bikes are not as nimble at low speeds (like parking lot speed) and heavier to push around.

To answer ur questions directly:

What particularly about having a 250 beforehand has prepared you for a larger bike? Throttle management and leaning

What specifically should someone like me (looking to get a 600 one day) learn from a 250 that would be difficult or more dangerous to learn on a bigger bike? throttle management and looking where you want to go no where ur going.

What are the major differences to expect, and how to deal with them (IE:increased weight and power)? if you get a zx6r, ull barely notice weight difference, in fact its just as flickable. Power, you'll def get a kick back when you first start riding. your riding stance will most likely be altered quite a bit if u get a bike with clip ons. bigger bikes feel more stable due to the fatter rear tire (180)

Is it harder to maneuver the bike up and down the drive way or in the garage while in neutral(somewhat trivial yet interesting things as well)? i find it just as easy to maneuver a 600 as it was with my 250, even a ducati 748.

Does anyone have examples of getting a bigger bike and not being comfortable with it? or maybe doing something stupid that they wouldn't have done if they were on a 250? (although people may not always be comfortable with their mistakes, others can always learn from them) At first i was a bit scared of the larger powerband and how much faster i could accelerate, got used to it within 20 miles tho.

honestly if you're gonna get a 600cc bike i highly recommend the zx-6r. it's light, fast, and just all around fun.

@ CC Cowboy, if you're referring to the Suzuki gsxr 750, compared to the zx6r it's actually not that much faster (stock) HP (gsxr has 40 more hp) and torque (gsxr's torque is only 4lbs more) are fairly close. The zx6r has a higher compression ratio at 13.3:1 vs the GSXRs 12.5:1 (almost 1 compression more)...not to mention the gsxr has been dubbed "the squid bike". I personally dislike everything about the gsxr as a road bike. A track bike...maaayybbeeee :D

@ CC Cowboy, if you're referring to the Suzuki gsxr 750, compared to the zx6r it's actually not that much faster (stock) HP (gsxr has 40 more hp) and torque (gsxr's torque is only 4lbs more) are fairly close. The zx6r has a higher compression ratio at 13.3:1 vs the GSXRs 12.5:1 (almost 1 compression more)...not to mention the gsxr has been dubbed "the squid bike". I personally dislike everything about the gsxr as a road bike. A track bike...maaayybbeeee :D

Just curious where you are getting your numbers. GSXR 750 makes about 125hp vs ZX6R's 107hp, but torque wise it does about 55 ft-lb vs 43 ft-lb. That's a huge difference of 15 ft-lb which is more than a ninjette does as a whole. GSXR's also won this year's Street Shootout here.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/232/10086/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Suzuki-GSX-R750-Street-Comparison.aspx

Just curious where you are getting your numbers. GSXR 750 makes about 125hp vs ZX6R's 107hp, but torque wise it does about 55 ft-lb vs 43 ft-lb. That's a huge difference of 15 ft-lb which is more than a ninjette does as a whole. GSXR's also won this year's Street Shootout here.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/232/10086/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Suzuki-GSX-R750-Street-Comparison.aspx

was looking at the 2010s on wiki, which could very well be wrong lol...don't get y the manufacturer sites doesn't show the specs

I personally dislike the gsxr, i think they're ugly, but thts just me. like i said, i'd prolly take one for the track tho, but i still love my zx6r.

another thing i see the gsxr 750 has going for it is the fact that it weighs like 10 pounds less than the zx6r...but if u take the stock exhaust off the zx6r uv just dropped 15lbs lol

@DarkNinja52 Thanks for asking, I'm interested too :) Thanks for the answers so far too :thumbup:

About riding positions, guys, how did the transition go ? I'm doing 350+ km rides (~ 200 miles) almost every weekend, and i was wondering if the more forward style of a SS would make that really uncomfortable, compared to the ninjette. Especially on bikes like the R6 or the Daytona 675 which I like the most at the moment.

biggest difference:
when someone says "is that a 600?" you answer "yes" instead of "no"

@ CC Cowboy, if you're referring to the Suzuki gsxr 750, compared to the zx6r it's actually not that much faster (stock) HP (gsxr has 40 more hp) and torque (gsxr's torque is only 4lbs more) are fairly close. The zx6r has a higher compression ratio at 13.3:1 vs the GSXRs 12.5:1 (almost 1 compression more)...not to mention the gsxr has been dubbed "the squid bike". I personally dislike everything about the gsxr as a road bike. A track bike...maaayybbeeee :D

I don't know the specs on both bikes, but if it is 40HP that would be quite a bit, no?? I wouldn't declare one bike a winner vs another due to comp ratio. Almost got a blue/black used 750 once. I thought it was nicely subdued looking and comfortable.

I don't know the specs on both bikes, but if it is 40HP that would be quite a bit, no?? I wouldn't declare one bike a winner vs another due to comp ratio. Almost got a blue/black used 750 once. I thought it was nicely subdued looking and comfortable.

i would rather have a lower compression bike. less stress means the motor will probably last longer. not to mention more room to grow if thats your thing. plus you can run regular... 14:1 and up means premium only, no?

I don't know the specs on both bikes, but if it is 40HP that would be quite a bit, no?? I wouldn't declare one bike a winner vs another due to comp ratio. Almost got a blue/black used 750 once. I thought it was nicely subdued looking and comfortable.

40hp isn't that much tbh, what makes the difference more or less is the torque, that's where you get ur "oomph" factor. We're not saying one bike is better than the other, we're simply just putting specs out there showing that one is "faster" than the other, faster doesn't always mean better. Basically all the gasxr 750 is, is a bored out gsxer 600, at least as far as i know.

i would rather have a lower compression bike. less stress means the motor will probably last longer. not to mention more room to grow if thats your thing. plus you can run regular... 14:1 and up means premium only, no?

just cause it has a higher compression doesn't mean it'll last longer than a lower compression bike, i mean sure, technically it would produce more wear with a higher compression rate, but it all comes down to how well it was built and maintained :D Also, my bike runs 90+ octane (13.5:1), if you're in a pinch you could run regular, but no need to if u dont have to.

also higher compression means faster :D

@DarkNinja52 Thanks for asking, I'm interested too :) Thanks for the answers so far too :thumbup:

About riding positions, guys, how did the transition go ? I'm doing 350+ km rides (~ 200 miles) almost every weekend, and i was wondering if the more forward style of a SS would make that really uncomfortable, compared to the ninjette. Especially on bikes like the R6 or the Daytona 675 which I like the most at the moment.

How many of you guys found the riding position to be a major component of the difference(super sport or sport)?

I know someone mentioned it might be intimidating and to just sit on the bike without moving it for a while to get used to it. But for those of you that have experience on SS and Sport bikes, does going from the position on a 250 to the position on the bike you have now require adaptation, or was it a comfortable and natural transition from the 250's positioning? What about while riding longer distances??

I had ridden singles and twins both two stroke and four stroke in most sizes so when 40 years later I decided I needed a bike to commute I looked for something with the same power range as I had been used to. The 250R FI with 33bhp is what we used to get from a good 350 single or an average 500, what I had not reckoned with was that traffic travels much faster than back then. I rode my 250R for six months I enjoyed its handling but not its gearbox (rather clunky) and for the sort of commuting I do I found going up and down the box all the time annoying. Bigger bikes are not necessarily more difficult to ride, more care must be taken with the throttle and clutch, big singles and twins will lock the rear wheel if you dump the clutch when changing down, I4’s don’t. As for SS bikes here in Switzerland second hand SS bikes are two a penny they look great but mainly because of the riding position unless you have strong back muscles and wrists of iron a few not stop hours on a SS bike will have you not wanting to get back on.
Does the 250R prepare you for a bigger bike yes in one way you will learn to survive on the road but it does not prepare you for 150+ bhp that you have to learn with caution.

Steve

How many of you guys found the riding position to be a major component of the difference(super sport or sport)?

I know someone mentioned it might be intimidating and to just sit on the bike without moving it for a while to get used to it. But for those of you that have experience on SS and Sport bikes, does going from the position on a 250 to the position on the bike you have now require adaptation, or was it a comfortable and natural transition from the 250's positioning? What about while riding longer distances??

to be honest a SS's positioning is quite a bit different. I even had clip on's on my 250 but the zx6r is much lower, my buddies ducati (748) is even lower. It took me a little to get used to, oh and i had to relearn the friction zone for the clutch. If you ride it solid for a day, you'll have it down by the end. It's not something that will force u to totally relearn, but u will have to relearn a little bit.

as far as long commutes i have no problem with the zx6r and i take a route up to strausburg PA perhaps once a month that's about 600 miles round trip for me. Obviously I'm tired by the end of that, but that's mostly due to being on a twisty road, but on the highway it's not so bad, just take ur hand off the clutch side and rest it on the gas tank and uv got comfort while cruising lol

You have to ask yourself a few other questions before moving up -
What kind of riding do you do most, joy riding, commuting, back roads, major highways?
Exactly why do you want a bigger more powerful bike? Your size, weight, going 2 up, carrying cargo, ego?
You also have to investigate not only the extra cost of the bike, but maintenance, insurance costs. aftermarket accessories, etc.
You got a lot of good advice here so far, just think it through carefully before you make an impulsive decision. Used may be a better bargain than new, but do your homework about inspecting the bike first.
Also, are you only considering a sportbike, or cruisers too?

You have to ask yourself a few other questions before moving up -
What kind of riding do you do most, joy riding, commuting, back roads, major highways?
Exactly why do you want a bigger more powerful bike? Your size, weight, going 2 up, carrying cargo, ego?
You also have to investigate not only the extra cost of the bike, but maintenance, insurance costs. aftermarket accessories, etc.
You got a lot of good advice here so far, just think it through carefully before you make an impulsive decision. Used may be a better bargain than new, but do your homework about inspecting the bike first.

just to answer the question above with my experiences

i upgraded cause my 250r was totaled by an idiot that did a kturn in front of me, and cause i like riding twisties and keeping up with the bikes i ride with lol...and cause i got a hell of a deal including a 3 year rim and tire protection plan.

I've found that oem fairings cost quite a bit less than the 250's...prolly cause they're 2 piece...but still i was shocked lol. Insurance def. cost a little more, if you go with the 650r i think it costs less cause it's not a SS. Aftermarket parts for the most part are on par with the 250r in price. maitenence costs a bit more as you'll need to buy 4 quarts of oil instead of 2, also filters cost more cause they are cartridge form now, not the open filters. (that's just oil change stuff, you have to replace 3 brakes instead of 2, bigger chain, etc...)

Bigger bikes are not necessarily more difficult to ride, more care must be taken with the throttle and clutch, big singles and twins will lock the rear wheel if you dump the clutch when changing down, I4’s don’t.

Just an FYI, it doesn't have to do with the engine but with the clutch. Many SS's have slipper clutches that prevent that rear wheel lockup, but some do not. CBR's are an I4 that do not have slipper clutches so you can definitely lock those rears. Ducati and Daytona also do no have slippers, but they're different engines.

as far as long commutes i have no problem with the zx6r and i take a route up to strausburg PA perhaps once a month that's about 600 miles round trip for me. Obviously I'm tired by the end of that, but that's mostly due to being on a twisty road, but on the highway it's not so bad, just take ur hand off the clutch side and rest it on the gas tank and uv got comfort while cruising lol


So no wrist pain or anything ? I guess if you're able to do 600 miles, I should be able to do 300 ;)

@mrlmd: Sure, my motivations are:

- There are some SS in the 600cc category that are just gorgeous, that's my first reason. I lust over the Agusta F3, the Daytona 675 and the yamaha R6, in that order. I love the looks of my Ninjette, but these three are something else to me. My main fear was that all three seem to have a really forward riding position, and I wonder how long you can realistically ride on these before you're too tired / hurting.

- Better / more comfortable highway behavior would be second. I can't stay at slightly higher speed than traffic currently, the speed limit here is 120 km / h, but in normal conditions cars are going at 140 average. That means I'm confined to the 1st lane with trucks, and that's where potholes and 'ruts' (not sure about the correct word) are. A bigger back tire would help stabilize in these conditions too.

I'm in no rush to upgrade, though. I've done around 3000 miles over the last 3 months, and i know i'm far from having discovered all the tricks the Ninjette has to teach me. I'm in no way going to upgrade before next season. I just like to take the time to think things through and get as much information as I can before i make a move. I'm not considering cruisers, I just don't like much about them, not the looks, not the seating position. I'm keeping an eye on sport touring, but deep down what i really want is a supersport. Maybe riding one for a while would change my mind, but i will have to try one at some point, that's for sure.

40hp isn't that much tbh, what makes the difference more or less is the torque, that's where you get ur "oomph" factor. We're not saying one bike is better than the other, we're simply just putting specs out there showing that one is "faster" than the other, faster doesn't always mean better. Basically all the gasxr 750 is, is a bored out gsxer 600, at least as far as i know..


Wow so 40 HP isn't much in your house? What are your vehicles 500HP machines? Even then 40 HP is almost 12%. Back to the GSXR the rear wheel difference is probably closer to 25 HP though. Therefore if a Ninja 250 has less than 40 HP it must not make any relevant power. I bet the torque difference is more than 4 ft lbs as well. The 750 is bored and stroked to come up with the additional 150 CC. And the bike doesn't weigh much more than the 600. I've never ridden one, but I believe CC Cowboy has had at least one recently. He can tell you better than I can.

And I know that its torque that moves the bike (out of the hole, out of the corner), but on an inline 4 its revs that give the speed. Higher HP engines make higher revs. Case in point 1198 vs 1000 inline 4. The 1198 will come off the corner like a cannon ball, but the 4 cylinder 1000 will beat it on the long straights. Watch world superbike, Checa flies on the Duc, but on longer straights he can't pull the bigger inline fours. I think at Monza, or some other track he said he'd be happy to get a 5th. He has all the torque one can have, but its revs and HP on the long fast tracks.

First of all, are you looking to get a 600?

I think the Suzuki 750 is the next step up from a 250. The 750 is more rideable than a 600.

If you are looking for more power I suggest you do some trackdays or a racing school for some high sped experience.


I find a bigger bike might be harder in your driveway but easier on the road.

The bigger bike thing being a GSXR... I'd agree.
The GSXR is the cadillac of the sport bike world. Kickin a$$ and taking names.
You want a bigger bike for many reasons. These little squerrely 250's are dangerous.

I wanted the 750 too, after buying two six's.
I wanted more acceleration coming off corners. I could feel where I was waiting for the bike to accelerate. This even after I learned to lift a front wheel coming off a corner with the 600.

I don't know why he says it's more rideable, but it sure is nicer to have a gsxr 750 over a 600, over a ninja 250. Even thoguh they can get you into trouble faster, if you have throttle control, they can get you OUT of trouble quicker... by this I'm not referring to throttle control... but just riding the bike correctly.

The suspension and the brakes on the ninja aren't half what they are on the GSXR and this can save you if you are less experienced. I personally know this to be a fact.

There's no reason to even have a ss if you're just riding it back and fourth to work though unless you just like to look cool and like how they look. If you don't plan on going fast, dragging knees and doing wheelies and even going to the track then why buy a big giant bike with more power than you'll ever know how to use? To look cool and pose like you know how to ride it?

Just an FYI, it doesn't have to do with the engine but with the clutch. Many SS's have slipper clutches that prevent that rear wheel lockup, but some do not. CBR's are an I4 that do not have slipper clutches so you can definitely lock those rears. Ducati and Daytona also do no have slippers, but they're different engines.

Can also lock the rear on a twin or triple. Duc 1198SP now has a slipper clutch. A recent test says the 675 could use one. Even with a slipper you can see world class racers blipping into the throttle coming into corners.

love my CBR 600rr, don't know why i would want anything bigger. it's plenty fast and rideable, but everyone is different.

Just learn throttle control at your pace, go easy on the clutch, and don't try to show off.

:D

Buddy of mine on a Yamaha WR250X (street legal single, not the mx bike) passed so many people at a track day that they bumped him up to the intermediate group after one session. He topped out at 87 mph on the straight, but slapped just about everyone in the corners.

Buddy of mine on a Yamaha WR250X (street legal single, not the mx bike) passed so many people at a track day that they bumped him up to the intermediate group after one session. He topped out at 87 mph on the straight, but slapped just about everyone in the corners.Funny you mention that. I was just about to respond to this thread with: Now that you have a bigger bike...I want a smaller bike.

The WR is one I'm looking at among several supermoto style offerings. Truthfully, I would love the Aprilia SXV 5.5, but it's a bit more than I want to pay for a bike with such a limited focus (though a great focus it is).

I was looking at supermotos, along with several other types of bikes, back in March. I had planned to just wait on the purchase of a new bike but I kinda came upon the ZX and just bought it. I certainly don't regret it and I can't wait to get it to the track.

But lately, I just find myself missing being able to beat the hell out of the bike to within an inch of it's life. A 600 doesn't even start working until speeds upwards of 90 mph; at my age I have too much to lose to turn the road into a racetrack. Not to mention it is just dangerous and disrespectful to other members of society.

OP, just keep the Ninja and beat the hell out of it until it doesn't run anymore. Or if you must get a new bike, check out supermotos. Most of the offerings available will have stronger acceleration than the Ninjette below 60-70 and will at least match it after that to 80+ give or take. Acceleration was definitely an area I felt let down by the Ninjette. Supermotos are crazy light too, and even more flickable than the 250R. If you can get over the looks and/or don't do crazy long interstate travel often, then it may be just right for you.

Body positioning and shifting the correct way is what you really want to master with a 250 before moving up.

You will have to relearn throttle control once you get a 600cc, and then again once you get at 1000.

Try sitting the 650 ninja sv650 or FZ6R. Then try the R6 ZX-6 etc.
Unless you have iron wrists or your 20 you may be really sorry after an hour.

I agree that body position and throttle control are 2 of the things to master before moving up.
You will find that the 250 can hang with the best of them in the twistys with a good pilot.

This is kinda :rolleyes: I know, but what a few folks have said is not as true as I think a newbie might assume when they are looking for a larger displacement motorcycle. It is a good generalization but not a hard truth that larger displacement motorcycles are heavier than smaller displacement bikes. :)

When I first was looking for a bike, I did take the riding position into consideration. I have very minor back issues, and thot that the "aggressive" seating of a sportbike might irritate that. After having ridden my ninjette for over 1200 miles, I find almost the opposite was true. I've gone for long rides, and not felt any back issues till about the 4 hour mark. Riding in my cage, in a more reclined position, my back starts tweaking after 40 minutes.
But to continue on with the topic, I've shaved the seat on my ninjette so I could really tuck down at speed. So far down, that I'm face to face with the instrument panel. I too, am curious about the seating position of the larger bikes. Would it be that different than what I described for mine? Because it seems the more aggressive is more comfortable to me.
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When I first was looking for a bike, I did take the riding position into consideration. I have very minor back issues, and thot that the "aggressive" seating of a sportbike might irritate that. After having ridden my ninjette for over 1200 miles, I find almost the opposite was true. I've gone for long rides, and not felt any back issues till about the 4 hour mark. Riding in my cage, in a more reclined position, my back starts tweaking after 40 minutes.
But to continue on with the topic, I've shaved the seat on my ninjette so I could really tuck down at speed. So far down, that I'm face to face with the instrument panel. I too, am curious about the seating position of the larger bikes. Would it be that different than what I described for mine? Because it seems the more aggressive is more comfortable to me.
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Try sitting on a new r6; it feels like your doing a pushup. Our ninja 250's with stock handlebars are nothing like a supersport.

Try sitting on a new r6; it feels like your doing a pushup. Our ninja 250's with stock handlebars are nothing like a supersport.
True, but how does it feel while riding ? And is it just a matter of getting used to it ?
That's what I'd like to hear from someone who has ridden an R6 or Daytona and a ninjette, both for a few months.

I can't speak for the R6 or the Daytona, but my ZX-6R is considerably more aggressive than the new-gen 250 I had. I personally prefer it, but I like to ride from a more commanding position.

Be warned, though, no matter how much you like a SS seating position, after all day rides, the Ninja 250 with it's more standard riding position wins from a pure comfort perspective. I put 260 miles on the ZX today. I loved every minute of it while I was leaned over. By the end of the day, however, I had a serious hot spot in my right knee. My right leg is ever so slightly longer than the left, and after more than 150 or so miles, I start to feel that extra pressure being applied to it from the aggressive riding position.

I logged several 150-180 mile days on the 250 and never had a problem with my knee. Being that I start to feel it at the 150 mark on the ZX, I have to believe that had I logged a 260 day on the Ninjette, it would have been with no hot spot in the knee.

As far as my back, I prefer the hunched over position for control and comfort, especially at 70+ mph. Cruisers hurt my back. I have never suffered any back issues from riding the Ninjette or the ZX.

Thanks, Xoulrath !

I tend to start getting pain in the knee after 4 hours (~ 200 miles) in the saddle on my ninjette.
Nothing about your wrists ? How is wind protection on the ZX ? On my ninjette around 130 km/h (~80 mph), the wind starts seriously pulling me back.

If you have your elbows bent and use your core muscles to support your weight, then you should have no problems with your wrists. Though I will say that after a 260 mile ride, the vibrations, light though they may be, tend to start numbing your hands.

The wind protection honestly isn't any better than the 250. But the bike is meant to be fast on a track, not shield you from the elements on a 2,000 mile tour. I don't find it to be a problem, but I could see where really windy areas would make it harder to live with on a daily basis. Then again, if you can live with your Ninjette, then I don't see why you couldn't live with a SS.

The wind protection honestly isn't any better than the 250. But the bike is meant to be fast on a track, not shield you from the elements on a 2,000 mile tour. I don't find it to be a problem, but I could see where really windy areas would make it harder to live with on a daily basis. Then again, if you can live with your Ninjette, then I don't see why you couldn't live with a SS.

That makes sense. I was just wondering if the ergonomics made it harder to live with than the ninjette. Thanks for answering in all details :)

I'm more and more seriously thinking about getting an MV Agusta F3 next year, if real life reports don't uncover any big flaw on that brand new beast.

Ride safe !
Vegedurden

I ended up at a CB1000R. I love naked things, but naked bikes really get my blood flowing. No wind protection, but the seating position is basically upright for me. That's what I was looking for the most. I love aggressive sport bikes, but I want something I can sit on for a thousand miles and not want to trade it in on a Honda civic. You gotta remember that on bigger bikes (especially fuel injected ones), that they're easier to start, have tons more pep, and require absolutely no hard wrist twisting to get it or keep it moving. My twofiddy taught me how to balance, corner, swerve to miss objects and respect the fact that bad things can happen. All in all, it taught me how to ride responsively.

My main fear with a bigger (600cc+) bike are wheelies. I know most people love em, but they really scare the hell out of me. So with the bigger bikes (ZX6R for example) is it easy to find yourself accidentally popping wheelies or is it something that takes a conscience effort?

My main fear with a bigger (600cc+) bike are wheelies. I know most people love em, but they really scare the hell out of me. So with the bigger bikes (ZX6R for example) is it easy to find yourself accidentally popping wheelies or is it something that takes a conscience effort?

With a liter bike, yes you can very easily power wheelie

On my R6 I have only accidentally done maybe 2-3 wheelies(I am only talking like a few inches of the ground) but it only happens when full throttle at the peak rpm going up a hill usually. 600's aren't really wheelie machines, they don't have a lot of torque and they are peaky, but you will lift the wheel up if you going up a hill and hammer on it, or you redline it in first gear it will come up a little.

Try riding a hard core supermoto, now THATS a wheelie machine.

My main fear with a bigger (600cc+) bike are wheelies. I know most people love em, but they really scare the hell out of me. So with the bigger bikes (ZX6R for example) is it easy to find yourself accidentally popping wheelies or is it something that takes a conscience effort?

It takes an effort or a spaztic panic to wheelie. The front end isn't gonna just come up on you unexpectedly if you have a clue as to what you're doing.

My main fear with a bigger (600cc+) bike are wheelies. I know most people love em, but they really scare the hell out of me. So with the bigger bikes (ZX6R for example) is it easy to find yourself accidentally popping wheelies or is it something that takes a conscience effort?

NO!
A 600 is still tricky to wheelie. You still have to want it to wheelie for it to wheelie!
Specially if it's a SPORT 600 and not a SUPER SPORT 600. The sport are usually deadened some from the full blow super sport bikes.

My GSXR was HARD to power up but it would.. if you did it just exactly right. (See avatar)
You had to clutch it up for consistency. You had to pull clutch, rev to 6-7-8K and dump clutch fast, then apply an even or better good chunk of throttle to KEEP the wheel up.

IF YOU EVER WHEELIE ON YOUR 600 AND YOU DIDN'T WANT TO, LET OFF THE GAS OR HIT THE REAR BRAKE AND IT WILL COME RIGHT BACK DOWN. KEEP YOUR ARMS LOSE AND DO NOT GET TENSE.

You will be perfectly fine! Don't worry about a 600 doing wheelies on you without you asking it to! This is a common misconception. You will be perfectly ok! :thumbup:

It's the 1000 super sports that lift front wheel all over the place on a pin drop.
600 you still have to ask for it.

What you shoudl be worried about on a 600 from the 250 is throttle control while cornering.
That is the largest difference... besides the actual larger size of the bikes.
One hair of throttle in a corner on a 600 equals about ALL the throttle on the 250 lol.

I personally find the bigger "ships" to be way more comfy. Those GSXR are so in tune when you get dialed in to riding it and used to your machine. You really feel connected. Can ride one alllll day no discomfort. I sold my R6 cause it felt painful and squerrely compared to my GSXR's.

Only time I ever seen anyone on the street connected to something like I have seen people on GSXR was a guy on a honda 1000. Flew right by me and Adrian in a corner while we were flat out hauling... like we weren't even there.

I'm convinced since then the GSXR 1000 and the Honda 1000 are machines for super humans.
Either thatm or you turn into a super human when you learn to ride one properly.

That's why I won't track.
I don't like cornering that close to people.
Some other idiot will be responsible for me breaking my back when he hits me.
I don't need 1000's flying by my 250 while I'm banked, stressing me out. lol

Another time a 600 will wheelie unexpected is coming off a corner in high RPM :eek: That one is scary. If your body position is right, all your weight should be lined right up above the rear wheel center of gravity and it stays on while you lean! :eek:
I've done it like twice!

Keep RPM low-ish while cornering bigger bikes. Otherwise all kinds of bad stuff can happen.
I worry about keeping the ninja at 12k through corners too sometimes.

This has been some great information to build on. Glad I checked into this because I've been seriously considering a bigger bike, with reservations. Don't get me wrong, I still love my 250, and plan to keep it, if I get another one. Thanks again, for all the great insight.
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Thanks for the reassurance guys :thumbup:

I just showed that to the fiance and she seems a little more open to me getting a bigger bike at some point in the distant future. I just got my 250 two weeks ago, and I'm still learning how to corner at speeds that let the bike do what its made for.

The ONE time my ZX even started to come up on me, I had it for two days and was still adjusting to it.

The wheel didn't actually come up; the front end just got light as I was pushing hard through second gear. I was sitting farther back than I normally do. Simple fix: add more throttle and lean forward. Well, I guess you could just maintain throttle and lean forward, but what fun is that? Seriously, the bike was fine.

As for coming up on a hill or coming off of a corner hard, I personally haven't experienced that, though I do my best to maintain a proper weight distribution on the bike, especially while riding hard, and I do weight 270 so that may help as well.