So, I've been Googling some forums on why people drag knee but my question hasn't really been answered.

New rider here since December, but I'm trying to go faster and faster on familiar corners. Can our 250r hit the same corner at same speed/lean angle with or without dragging knee (or at least the knee sticking out)?. Not even dragging per se, it's just lately, my knee sticks out naturally.

Lately, I've been playing around with sticking my butt out as well (hanging off?). I've noticed the knee sticks out more (or at least wants to, instead of both knees being tight on the tank) if I do hang off a bit.

I really want to take an Advance Riding Course, but I might have to put that off till next season.

Not everyone I ride with drags knee. Don't focus on that, but focus on good body position on the bike and throttle control. The corner speed/lean angle will increase with time and will feel better as your available traction and bike stability will be increased.

Putting a knee down is mostly about a gauge to how far the bike is leaned over, not much more. I have seen dragging elbows and even helmets, so in short dragging a knee is not required to get the same corner entry speed.

I recommend reading twist of the wrist II or watch twist of the wrist II DVD. All this is explained in detail with the reasons/science behind it.

Lately, I've been playing around with sticking my butt out as well (hanging off?). I've noticed the knee sticks out more (or at least wants to, instead of both knees being tight on the tank) if I do hang off a bit.


Hanging off and seating position are two different things. Try this; when you sit your butt on the seat, look down. There should be about 4-5 inches between your crotch and the tank. Don't ride right up against the tank. Next when you are ready to hang of (before the corner, and before you let off the gas) just slide one butt cheek off and follow the rest of the body position guides.

Well, I've read that dragging knee is just the result of good body position.

"before you let off the gas" - Isn't this bad? Wouldn't it upset the bike? I guess you didn't mean to completely close the throttle, correct?

And dang.. I've always had my crotch touching the tank. Letme sit on the bike now and see how it feels lol

As you learn to get more lean angle you will need to slide your body into the corner, off the bike, the result is your knee will stick out a little to far...thus contacting the ground. On the 250 you shouldnt really have this problem because your pegs will hit, before your knee should.

Well, I've read that dragging knee is just the result of good body position.

Dragging knee isn't a default "result" of good body position. Dragging knee can be "achieved" by good body position. Have a look at some of those motogp riders, some of them lean so much they have to tuck in their knees.


"before you let off the gas" - Isn't this bad? Wouldn't it upset the bike? I guess you didn't mean to completely close the throttle, correct?


If your smooth (slide) about the get off, it will not upset the bike, but it will upset it even more without power to the rear wheel. Which is why I say before your pre-corner roll off and braking.

Dragging knee isn't a default "result" of good body position. Dragging knee can be "achieved" by good body position. Have a look at some of those motogp riders, some of them lean so much they have to tuck in their knees.



If your smooth (slide) about the get off, it will not upset the bike, but it will upset it even more without power to the rear wheel. Which is why I say before your pre-corner roll off and breaking.

Good points. Dragging a knee as you mention is used as a lean angle gauge and can be "achieved" by good body position plus a few other factors as well. Most people think that if they just adjust their body position they will drag a knee but other factors such as your rate of steering will have an effect on whether or not you ever get your knee down.

Have you ever thought about how quickly you turn your bike? What difference does it make to your lean angle if you steer your bike quickly vs slowly?

Also, as you approach a turn, before you get on the brakes you need to roll off the gas. As mentioned above, as long as this is done smoothly it will not upset the bike. Seems to me like you are perhaps trying to keep the throttle open when you are turning? When should you crack on the gas and begin rolling on???

Misti

Also, as you approach a turn, before you get on the brakes you need to roll off the gas. As mentioned above, as long as this is done smoothly it will not upset the bike. Seems to me like you are perhaps trying to keep the throttle open when you are turning? When should you crack on the gas and begin rolling on???

Misti


This is what I do at the moment:

Turn off trottle
Brake
Open throttle slightly
Start turning/lean/whatever
Slowly open the throttle

Actually, at the moment, I do all that a little too late so I have to remind myself to do all that a bit earlier. Sometimes, when it's time to start leaning, I'm only in the "open throttle" stage.

Btw.. I was just on the bike. It feels weird having my crotch 2-4 inches away from the tank. Does anyone else do it? I've always had my crotch touching it..

But it does feel like I have more control of the bike when my crotch is 2-4 inches away. Feels better, but it's only weird/awkward probably because I'm not used it to.

I use knee dragging at the track as a gauge to know when Im getting near the edge of the tire. When my puck hit the pavement I try to get off the bike even farther and stand the bike up a bit.:thumbup:

Dragging knee isn't a default "result" of good body position. Dragging knee can be "achieved" by good body position. Have a look at some of those motogp riders, some of them lean so much they have to tuck in their knees.



If your smooth (slide) about the get off, it will not upset the bike, but it will upset it even more without power to the rear wheel. Which is why I say before your pre-corner roll off and braking.

What got me going was seeing a picture of a guy so far over he was dragging tucked in knee and his shoulder. Now that's freakin crazy! lol

Anyways I have noticed since I started using my knee for turning I can turn way better sharper and faster. I went around a 90 turn and my friend said it looked like if I went further I would fall over. But the bike picks itself right back up.

if you're going above 160mph, it acts as a really handy air-brake......

Unfortunately for me...knee draggin' is an addiction.

if you're going above 160mph, it acts as a really handy air-brake......

lol.... air brake

how bout a sail on a windy day?

Its a gauge of lean angle for me mostly, with my tires knee down is about 80% max lean angle, toe drag is 95% lean angle, and any more than that and you'll be on the ground. Keep in mind thats with sticky tires (BT-003s, Pirelli SC1s, or Pilot Power Race), stock 501 tires, knee down is probably at 95% of tire grip if they're brand new and warm.

As said before, keep your crotch a bit off the tank, grab the tank with your outside knee, then put your head as far down to the inside of the corner as you can get. Your outside arm should be as extended as you can and your bicep resting on the tank top. When I say resting, I mean it because your weight should be supported all by your outside leg, leaving your inside leg free to balance the bike and your wrists with hardly any weight at all, feeling what the front tire is doing. Maybe looking something like this (my head could be lower down and my ass could be hanging a bit more off, but im WORKIN ON IT):

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/StevenDawson/Ninja%20250r/VP2_1171.jpg

Oh yeah, don't do this in the mountains/canyons/streets. Go to a race track if you really want to drag knee. Get full leathers too. And boots.

Btw.. I was just on the bike. It feels weird having my crotch 2-4 inches away from the tank. Does anyone else do it? I've always had my crotch touching it..

But it does feel like I have more control of the bike when my crotch is 2-4 inches away. Feels better, but it's only weird/awkward probably because I'm not used it to.

I haven't had time to read through all the other responses yet, but wanted to give you my :2cents: . When cornering (or even in hard braking), yes, sitting as far back as possible is best position as it helps weight the rear (in both cases) and settles your suspension.

:kewlpics: Looks like you're doing great!! :thumbup:

No one should be dragging the knee on a public highway. Dragging your knee means you are pushing the limit and should be kept for the track, where if you overdo it you will not be hitting obstacles like you find on a public highway.

Steve

Dragging your knee means you are pushing the limit
Who told you this?
I don't believe that is true in all instances.

Plus you can always drag knee off the side of the highway without hurting anyone or anything at 10mph. I'm not pushing a limit or endangering anyone while riding a highway dragging knees in these pictures. My bike isn't even tilted 45*. Just having a bit of FUN. =)
Some of us buy motorcycle to do exactly this type of thing for no reason.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/tacklejunkie/fulltiltninja-1.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/tacklejunkie/wheredidhegoninja-1.jpg

I wish I could drag knee. :(

Are you being serious?
Wasn't it you who said you did it in super bike school?

Just don't rush into it and try and keep it safe.

It's not the best idea to be doing it on the open road either of course, I do understand this point.

Are you being serious?
.

His avatar picture answers your question. ;)

I've had my original knee pucks since 2008, and probably touched knee twice. :D

I don't like the feeling of dragging knee but that's probably not the reason why I can't/don't drag knee. My lean angle sucks. :(


LOL

Dragging your knee means you are pushing the limit
Steve

not even close

Rexbo is pretty much dead on in his description. Now for some pic whoring.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/Racing/Mar-12-CVMA1015amRS1C9622.jpg
Rexbo, Nemesis, see you guys in September.

His avatar picture answers your question. ;)

It would seem as though he was being serious, which is why I asked. :)

I've had my original knee pucks since 2008, and probably touched knee twice. :D

I don't like the feeling of dragging knee but that's probably not the reason why I can't/don't drag knee. My lean angle sucks. :(


LOL

It's an awkward feeling if you are doing it as you are "supposed to". I have to stop after five minutes because I am so tall that bending my knees like that hurts like crazy on this little bike.

One thing that helped me to understand better was I read that you should lean both your head and your butt off the bike EQUALLY.

It's also not so much about leaning off far. It's doing it equally and correct. It's more downward.

Also since I do that bicycle flatland stuff the head turning in became natural. That's how you turn any two or one wheel device.

I ride a lot slower now positioned like this but I'm having to relearn it just like I was told I was going to..

He's not serious.

Come to RI sometime, you can break a knee cap on a frostheave, then lean the other way and break the other knee in a pothole.

That is a very polite thing to say to somebody now isn't it?

Originally Posted by SteveL
Dragging your knee means you are pushing the limit
Steve .....................not even close

This depends on your size. For an overgrown jockey like myself, when my puck hits the ground on the track I am very near the edge of the tire. Taller guys=longer legs=less lean angle.

That is a very polite thing to say to somebody now isn't it?

haha, though RI has its share of mobsters (and some wanna be's) who would be willing to break a knee with no bike required.

This depends on your size. For an overgrown jockey like myself, when my puck hits the ground on the track I am very near the edge of the tire. Taller guys=longer legs=less lean angle.

Being near the edge of the tire does not equal "pushing the limit." Being at the edge doesn't either. You can be pushing the limit and be at the tire's edge... you can be pushing the limit and only be near the tires edge, but having one doesn't automatically mean the other. People drag knees, run their tires to the edge, even run them rolling them over, all without "pushing the limit." So, yeah, you might be pushing the limit when your puck hits the ground, but that doesn't mean that a puck hitting the ground always means pushing the limit... or even getting close.

Rexbo, Nemesis, see you guys in September.

heck yeah i can't wait! Following you is always fun because your form is so good on the bike and both you guys are quick! Nice pic btw :)

back on topic: where were we?

Being near the edge of the tire does not equal "pushing the limit." Being at the edge doesn't either. You can be pushing the limit and be at the tire's edge... you can be pushing the limit and only be near the tires edge, but having one doesn't automatically mean the other. People drag knees, run their tires to the edge, even run them rolling them over, all without "pushing the limit." So, yeah, you might be pushing the limit when your puck hits the ground, but that doesn't mean that a puck hitting the ground always means pushing the limit... or even getting close.

All true. Add this though.
But when you go past the edge of the tire be prepared to go asphalt surfing.

When my puck hits the ground its just a reminder to me to........... get off the bike farther and stand it up a bit you lazy son of a *****
Thats what goes thru my head every time. lol:thumbup:

"Get off the bike further and stand it up a bit." Huh?

Soooo.... hang off more and make the bike's lean angle less? What's the science behind this? If you stand it up a bit, aren't you gonna go too wide?

:pop2: :pepsi-gif:

This is getting good.....

Everyone here has valid points, but we all know the real reason we drag knee is because it looks good in pictures!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/Track%20Days/KET_4736.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/Track%20Days/1073351823__g2k4323.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/Track%20Days/JON_0336.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/Racing/Mar-12-CVMA1015amRS1C9597.jpg

:hellokitty: It's so pretty...

:hellokitty: It's so pretty...

That's hilarious! I just added a Hello Kitty sticker to my race bike!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/279757113_photobucket_56363_.jpg

That's hilarious! I just added a Hello Kitty sticker to my race bike!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/279757113_photobucket_56363_.jpg

My daughter luvs it....she smiled from ear to ear
:happy90:

I was cracking up while I was putting it on.

"Get off the bike further and stand it up a bit." Huh?

Soooo.... hang off more and make the bike's lean angle less? What's the science behind this? If you stand it up a bit, aren't you gonna go too wide?

I could be way off on this, but I'm under the impression that you're exactly right.

The more you get off, the less lean angle you need for a given corner. Less lean angle means you can carry more speed through the corner. The science is that with your weight being carried lower and to the inside, the bike doesn't have to lean as much to negotiate the corner. Less lean angle means more traction, which allows for higher speeds. It also gives you more room for correction. If you take the same corner at the same speed without hanging off, you'll have to be leaned over further. That means less room to the edge of the tire and less room before hard stuff starts dragging.

As for getting off the bike and standing it up mid-corner, you'd have to compensate with the steering a bit, although by getting your weight lower and more to the inside, you've already done some compensation to balance out the standing up.

Am I wrong?

And Peanut is spot on about doing it because it looks good in pictures :D

Peanut you look so sexy knee dragging. I wish I could knee drag like you. I'm serious!

The more you get off, the less lean angle you need for a given corner. Less lean angle means you can carry more speed through the corner. The science is that with your weight being carried lower and to the inside, the bike doesn't have to lean as much to negotiate the corner. Less lean angle means more traction, which allows for higher speeds. It also gives you more room for correction. If you take the same corner at the same speed without hanging off, you'll have to be leaned over further. That means less room to the edge of the tire and less room before hard stuff starts dragging.

As for getting off the bike and standing it up mid-corner, you'd have to compensate with the steering a bit, although by getting your weight lower and more to the inside, you've already done some compensation to balance out the standing up.

Am I wrong?

NO. Thats it exactly.

Everyone here has valid points, but we all know the real reason we drag knee is because it looks good in pictures!
I like the way it feels under me when my bike lean angle and my knee drag angle are changing throughout the turn while adjusting my lean but my knee is still dragging.

Also it feels really cool dragging knee super smoothly on the smooth roads of GMR when you really hit a clean corner and slide all the way through the apex like butter on your knee. Don't hear anything but a "skateboard like" sound like when you were a kid doing a boardslide on a waxed curb how it's all smooth and slippery.

Something about coming into contact with the ground while heavily banked over to an altered state of vision under the forces of gravity.. like riding the "Gravitron".

Think I need to replace them yet or is there still meat on there?
When I used to drag on the GSXR, they would wear right in the middle.
But on my ninja for some reason they wear at a steep angle. lol
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/tacklejunkie/DSCN9262.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/tacklejunkie/DSCN9263.jpg

Just flip them over.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/279757113_photobucket_56438_.jpg

I do it to make the ladies like me more.

:(

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Devilrey/kneepuck.jpg

Now where are the ones you wear during the races?

I could be way off on this, but I'm under the impression that you're exactly right.

The more you get off, the less lean angle you need for a given corner. Less lean angle means you can carry more speed through the corner. The science is that with your weight being carried lower and to the inside, the bike doesn't have to lean as much to negotiate the corner. Less lean angle means more traction, which allows for higher speeds. It also gives you more room for correction. If you take the same corner at the same speed without hanging off, you'll have to be leaned over further. That means less room to the edge of the tire and less room before hard stuff starts dragging.

As for getting off the bike and standing it up mid-corner, you'd have to compensate with the steering a bit, although by getting your weight lower and more to the inside, you've already done some compensation to balance out the standing up.

Am I wrong?

So less lean = more speed
Hang off = less lean needed for cornering

Okay. Then why do people say "you don't even need to hang off"? Wouldn't it be better to do it anyways to have more speed?

So less lean = more speed
Hang off = less lean needed for cornering

Okay. Then why do people say "you don't even need to hang off"? Wouldn't it be better to do it anyways to have more speed?

less lean = more traction
more traction = more possibility for speed
hang off = possibility to go faster through a corner

i think people say don't bother hanging off because they themselves, or they think the person they're saying it to needs to be working on other skills like throttle control before worrying about trying to go faster. magic speed for getting better: 70% of what you can do. if you have trouble with the basics, don't try to do the advanced yet

though personally i think its a good idea for everyone to at least lean their upper body into the turn... getting your bottom off can wait...

Now where are the ones you wear during the races?

Oh you mean these that were worn down from the crash in May? :D

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Devilrey/IMG-20110811-00003.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Devilrey/IMG-20110811-00004.jpg

:D

Nice slippers, bro.

h7cP2u7jP2c

Still trying to get it down lol

Nice vid, kevin :thumbup:


Does your heel ever touch the chain? It looks to get close. I have wear on my chain guard from my heel (I put a christmas tree fastener in place of the bolt so it doesn't rough up my boots), it would touch without the guard, I'm pretty sure.

Nice vid, kevin :thumbup:


Does your heel ever touch the chain? It looks to get close. I have wear on my chain guard from my heel (I put a christmas tree fastener in place of the bolt so it doesn't rough up my boots), it would touch without the guard, I'm pretty sure.

So far it hasn't, we will see when my new rearsets come in but i doubt it. I hope it doesnt, lol, I cant see that being a good thing. Did you notice my 8 inches of chain slack? lol :rolleyes:

Nice vid Kevin, what did you scrape @ 6:50, the kickstand?

I do it to make the ladies like me more.

That's hawtt! :D

Nice vid Kevin, what did you scrape @ 6:50, the kickstand?

I dont think I scrapped anything that time, I think it was just bumps in the road. That was at the beginning of the run so I wasnt pushing too hard. By they end of the night I was inches from my knee! lol But I didnt get it on video because I turned the camera around to get adrian. I'll post that vid soon

So far it hasn't, we will see when my new rearsets come in but i doubt it. I hope it doesnt, lol, I cant see that being a good thing. Did you notice my 8 inches of chain slack? lol :rolleyes:

8 inches? That's.. a lot, isn't it? I guess it depends on the bike?

Lol yeah, it's not really that much. It's just much more then it should be
Posted via Mobile Device

Okay. How much lean angle can our 250s take? I just went through a 20 kph corner and scraped my left foot peg. If 100% is the angle where our bikes would fall over, which % would be needed for the foot peg to hit ground?

The guy I was riding with said the bike could lean more and I shouldn't worry (I told him I started worrying after I heard it scrape).

Is it normal? He said the knee usually touches the ground first before it hits the foot peg.

I guess next time, I should hang my butt off so I don't have to lean that much?

I guess next time, I should hang my butt off so I don't have to lean that much?
Also hang your upper body (head and shoulders) off of the bike equally with your butt, and make sure your head is looking into the turn, and you are leaning over the tank/forward. You will feel like you are trying to look into or through or kiss your mirror at some point.

when you are doing it right, you'll realize how much faster you could have gone through turns, had you properly set them up before hand. Remember, work on the turn and your position, not the knee down.

Ideally, you don't want your peg to scrape. Much more and you will lift the center of the bike and do donuts on the peg. You need to lean your body out and down around the tank more.

I seriously dragged knees in a 10 foot diameter circle today in HALF of a one lane street out front of Adrians house. The bike was almost vertical. I was pivoting in a circle on my one knee. It was pretty neat! Gravitron action. I had the bike in second gear to do this very low RPM. I need to get it on video.

stock footpegs will drag all day with good tires & suspension, heck even with aftermarket rearsets you'll be dragging toe/knee... if you got the cajones for it. I'm sure there's some theoretical max lean angle on the bike, but its dependent on pavement grip, tires, suspension, body position, wind, migration patterns of butterflies & other thousand things. Basically what i'm saying is the lean angle is totally dependent on when the tires start to slide, which is different for different people's riding styles.

Yeah I was never into peg/boot scraping.
That's just plain weird.
Others do it all day no problems.
I guess that's your preference.

I'm always afraid of hitting pegs and kick stands and pipes on the ground. Done it, don't like the feel.

Remember, work on the turn and your position, not the knee down.

Ideally, you don't want your peg to scrape. Much more and you will lift the center of the bike and do donuts on the peg. You need to lean your body out and down around the tank more.

I seriously dragged knees in a 10 foot diameter circle today in HALF of a one lane street out front of Adrians house. The bike was almost vertical. I was pivoting in a circle on my one knee. It was pretty neat! Gravitron action. I had the bike in second gear to do this very low RPM. I need to get it on video.


Don't worry, I'm not THAT concerned about knee down. I only asked so I could understand the 'science' behind it and improve myself as a (new) rider.

The reason why I didn't hang my ass off the bike during today's ride was because I read that "you don't have to." But I guess, people do it because it helps?

So to reiterate:

Hang your ass off = less lean needed to hit the same corner
Less lean = more traction
More traction = possibility for more speed

If that's the case, why not always hang your ass off? Not necessarily for more speed, but to avoid having to lean the bike as much.

Btw, thanks for all the advice. You guys have been helpful.


edit: oh, yea. so knee drag is more of a 'gauge', right? how far do you have it open? relaxed? do you purposely stretch it out? or it all depends on the person and their "normal" spread will soon be muscle memory?

For normal non knee dragging, around town riding, I don't lean off much at all.
At most legal speeds it's not necessary to totally lean off if you aren't going to drag something.
For normal canyon riding with no knee dragging, I do lean a fair amount.

Okay. How much lean angle can our 250s take? I just went through a 20 kph corner and scraped my left foot peg. If 100% is the angle where our bikes would fall over, which % would be needed for the foot peg to hit ground?

The guy I was riding with said the bike could lean more and I shouldn't worry (I told him I started worrying after I heard it scrape).

Is it normal? He said the knee usually touches the ground first before it hits the foot peg.

I guess next time, I should hang my butt off so I don't have to lean that much?

As others have said, once the pegs start to scrape, you're getting close to max lean angle. At that point, you risk other hard parts acting as a lever and lifting a tire off the ground. That is bad :D

The reason the knee usually touches first is because you're actively working to keep from allowing the peg to scrape.

Like KC said, if you're just riding around town or commuting, you're going to be riding at speeds where you're nowhere near max lean angle, so hanging off really isn't necessary.

As for the proper way to hang off, start with the butt, but the rest of your upper body needs to follow. If you look at my avatar, you can see that my rear is starting to come off, but the rest of my upper body (shoulders and head) are still pretty much centered over the tank. I'm not doing it quite right. In my experience, it's tough to break that habit and really get into the correct position.

Kiss your wrist, kiss the mirror, etc. Your head should be down low and to the inside, always looking through the turn .

Didn't wanna start a new thread, figured I'd do it here.

Okay. So let's say you come into a corner too fast, people always suggest to just lean it hard.

But what if you're already leaning it (without hanging off) close to the point that it's about to fall?

Is it safe to start hanging off mid-corner? Probably not, since balance will shift and it back tire could lose traction???

I guess if you're already hanging off and leaning it hard and you're still too fast, you're just SOL?

This question stemmed from Googling about "how to deal with coming into a corner too fast/hot." The articles I've read just suggest to KEEP LEANING IT HARD.

Look into the corner further and your body will follow, and then the bike.
You can adjust your lean mid turn.

Don't look at the scary stuff cause that's where you'll go.
Look where you need to go and focus on keeping your body where you have been told to keep it.
We do it automatically in cars, we tend to forget and stare at the road five feet in front of us on a motorcycle.

Look further down the corner? Err.. I would already be doing.

or do you mean look at the tree pass the end of the corner and "visualize" the upcoming road section?

just keep looking further ahead for the next person to impress. when you see them, this is your marker for using the knee. also if they have a camera make sure you're scraping parts.

...anyway

there's a reason it's best to only run at 70 or 80% of what you can do. that way when you get in the situation where you need to lean it over harder, you can. but anyway if you have to choose between going off the road and lowsiding, crank the bitch over and low-side it. you'll have less damage to both the bike and yourself, especially if you avoid those pesky trees. thinking you can magically pull the bike back up and get it stopped in time mid corner is just going to get you in trouble... well unless you're on a huge road or have tons of run-off like on a track

if you're really at your traction limit while fully leaned over, dropping the gas will make you lose your rear and lowside if you're lucky maybe tuck your front if you aren't so lucky. i don't think it would hurt to lean your upper body more... probably would help... if you aren't dragging your helmet you can lean further... just don't screw the pooch on the controls

Didn't wanna start a new thread, figured I'd do it here.

Okay. So let's say you come into a corner too fast, people always suggest to just lean it hard.

But what if you're already leaning it (without hanging off) close to the point that it's about to fall?

Is it safe to start hanging off mid-corner? Probably not, since balance will shift and it back tire could lose traction???

I guess if you're already hanging off and leaning it hard and you're still too fast, you're just SOL?

This question stemmed from Googling about "how to deal with coming into a corner too fast/hot." The articles I've read just suggest to KEEP LEANING IT HARD.

You can partially get off in mid corner. In fact, it’s one of the corrective skills you should have ready if you need it. If you find yourself too hot for a corner, you can lean your upper body forward and to the inside. This can tighten your cornering line without introducing additional lean angle or introduce instability to the bike. Moving your bum in mid-corner, could make the bike more unstable. Would one "fully" get off in mid corner? Maybe.... a google search on wreck saves reveals some unbelievable saves. How a rider can save a wreck when their chin hits the front fender is beyond my ability to understand.

When entering a corner with too much speed, throttle control is key to keeping traction. Don’t chop it, if possible continue the throttle roll (rule #1), along with the additional upper body lean, any steering corrections needed and looking through may just be enough to pull you through. You also have the “roll off” skill. When possible, you can “roll off” the throttle, repoint the bike and roll on again. This action takes time as it uses the engine and friction as a brake and sends you wide in the corner. On a right hander, it can send you into oncoming traffic! But if you have enough road and time to work with, can save you from a crash. There is “trail braking” as well, I understand this technique will tighten your cornering line. I cannot comment on this skill as I don’t have it myself.

And alex.s yields a great point, to use only 80% of your available abilities while riding street conditions. So you have more lean angle available, more road available and a little more time available to make any corrective actions.

Also, there is no magic here and make no mistake, if you’re going way to fast, with good body position and throttle control, there isn’t much you can do but keep on or maintain the gas, lean it hard and never give up! Unless your scraping hard parts you are not at the bikes limits. See this thread as well http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60184& paying close attention to Misty's comments. She is a track coach at california superbike school.

Overall, I am liking your style so far. The more understanding you have about the factors that affect the handling of the bike and rider, the more prepared you will be. If you haven't already, read as much as you can here http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13547 as most of these subjects has already been covered.

Ride Safe!

Total Control by Lee Parks has a great section on the hows and whys of cornering. My cornering (and over all ride technique) improved tremendously after reading this book.

It's all about shifting your center of gravity, as already described in this thread.

I highly recommend it.

http://www.amazon.com/Total-Control-Performance-Street-Techniques/dp/0760314039/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

Didn't wanna start a new thread, figured I'd do it here.

Okay. So let's say you come into a corner too fast, people always suggest to just lean it hard.

But what if you're already leaning it (without hanging off) close to the point that it's about to fall?

Is it safe to start hanging off mid-corner? Probably not, since balance will shift and it back tire could lose traction???

I guess if you're already hanging off and leaning it hard and you're still too fast, you're just SOL?

This question stemmed from Googling about "how to deal with coming into a corner too fast/hot." The articles I've read just suggest to KEEP LEANING IT HARD.


You can partially get off in mid corner. In fact, it’s one of the corrective skills you should have ready if you need it. If you find yourself too hot for a corner, you can lean your upper body forward and to the inside. This can tighten your cornering line without introducing additional lean angle or introduce instability to the bike. Moving your bum in mid-corner, could make the bike more unstable. Would one "fully" get off in mid corner?

See this thread as well http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60184& paying close attention to Misty's comments. She is a track coach at california superbike school.

Overall, I am liking your style so far. The more understanding you have about the factors that affect the handling of the bike and rider, the more prepared you will be. If you haven't already, read as much as you can here http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13547 as most of these subjects has already been covered.

Ride Safe!

Good question by the OP and good response above. As you found out, most of the advice given out there in response to the question "what do you do if you are running too hot/too wide in the corner but are already leaned to at or near max lean angle" will be to lean it over more/harder. HOWEVER, this is one of the most common errors that riders make and often results in a lowside because the rider simply leans the bike over too far and runs out of traction on his tires.

Hanging off (which is what this entire thread is about) is used in order to help you REDUCE the amount of lean angle you need for a corner which ideally should leave you plenty in reserve should you have to make a mid corner correction. Your question above was asked about a rider that was at max lean angle but NOT hanging off, so adjusting body position first should make more lean angle available.

But, if you are already hanging off and leaned over to max lean angle then you would do what csmith suggested and that would be to move your upper body forward and down which will help the bike tighten its line WITHOUT adding extra lean angle. At the California Superbike School we call this the "hook turn". The bike literally "hooks" in tighter.

I hope that answers your question. There are obviously a lot more factors involved with setting correct entry speed and getting through a corner safely when you have entered too fast (including throttle control and visual skills) but I just wanted to address one thing at a time and touch on your specific question. I'll check this thread more frequently to see if you may have more questions :)

Cheers!
Misti

Wow, this a great thread! Great educated discussion going on... LOVE IT.

K That is all :)

I was cracking up while I was putting it on.

also that photo from CVMA of your epic wheelie start cracked me up when i logged on hahah

You mean this one?
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/Racing/Mar-12-CVMARace5ROB_1382.jpg

Hey hey HEY! Keep those wheelies where they belong! On the street!


So you have pictures on your knee, and you have pictures with a wheel in the air, but now the real question- can you get a picture dragging knee and doing a wheelie at the SAME TIME?

Oh lordy look at him he can get his wheel off the ground. Superman.

Kinda.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/synernut/Track%20Days/1073333891__g2k3078.jpg

:lol: That'll do

Oh lordy look at him he can get his wheel off the ground. Superman.

Ok, I guess I deserved that, but it was an accident.

Just want to say I finally drug my knee! Pretty much amazing :D

Ootl9dLWke4

happens at 4:27 and 4:51 (the better one :thumbup:)