Well there ya go, I was teaching my GF and a friend to ride. Getting them ready for they M test here in Maryland. We were spending the evening in a parking lot with cones and lots of open space.

On the way home everything was going according to plan right up until we got to my parking lot. The speed bumps here are easily bypassed on motorcycles as they have about 2 feet on either side that is clear. Well, I went to the right side which puts you in a perfect lean to make a left turn after you pass the bump. My friend, made a mistake thinking that I was going straight. He started to pass me thinking all was well not knowing I was mid turn to make the left NOT just going around the speed bump. He hasn't been riding with us long enough to know we all make that left there.

If your paying attention that means I was making a left turn and my friend tried to pass me. Options: put it down, or hit him t-bone style. I opted for downing the bike on purpose. He didn't realize we always make that left turn there and just tried to go straight thinking that it was the right way. He is well aware that his mistake cut me off. He is still new and I am not particularly mad but my bike is in rough shape. I personally am hurting a good bit. Hit the handle bar I think with my chest so that much hurts, back hurts, muscles all over hurt.

For the most part I'm good, just a couple days of being sore i think. Had my jacket on and I can't even begin to say how much it saved me pain wise. That being said I also had my 2 day old new helmet on. As luck would happen my helmet never hit. Not so much as a mark on it.

Bike lost a mirror and some paint, I will post pics when I go look at it in the daylight. ( it happened at night and I live on the 3rd floor, I am not inclined to go down 3 flights of steps at the moment to take pics )

Make him pay for your repairs? I would also suggest he wont ride with you anymore, seems like the kind of chucklehead that always ends up in trouble because of his shenanigans.

To me it seems like a case of miscommunication and a misunderstanding...if you go to the far right side of the street anyone behind you can only assume that you are going to turn right or go straight, how could anyone that doesn't know what your intentions are know that you are turning left from the far right side of the street?

Talk to him, if he's a good friend and can help you out I'm sure he'll offer. Personally, if it was me, I wouldn't pay for repairs if I was him. I would feel like I didn't do anything wrong and was just going straight while you were the one messing around trying to turn left from the far right of the street. I'm not saying I'm not a good friend and I wouldn't do the same for my best friends, but in this case it's really not his fault and he shouldn't be held liable for something that's not his fault.

I don't mean to be insensitive....


But what's wrong with your blinker?

I'm pretty sure te fault is not in question. In the end he shouldent have broken staggered formation. Especially in a small residential area. That being said he is not questioning the fault. As I said, he is new to riding having only a learners permit since Friday last week. He didn't know that the others travling with us all make that left. He will be paying for repairs I believe.

I finally looked at it. There is a little metal damage, bar ends, left peg, left gear shifter foot lever, engine cover, left faring, left turn signal left clutch hand lever.

I don't mean to be insensitive....


But what's wrong with your blinker?

I'd like to say I used it but honestly I'm not sure if I did things were a bit hectic. He knows that passingThat being said, you don't pass people in a parking lot. You stay in formation when traveling in a group. Big downside to it all is I was taking 2 learners people on a charity ride on Saturday for the center for missing an exploited children. My bike it out of commission now.

I'm pretty sure te fault is not in question. In the end he shouldent have broken staggered formation. Especially in a small residential area. That being said he is not questioning the fault. As I said, he is new to riding having only a learners permit since Friday last week. He didn't know that the others travling with us all make that left. He will be paying for repairs I believe.

I finally looked at it. There is a little metal damage, bar ends, left peg, left gear shifter foot lever, engine cover, left faring, left turn signal left clutch hand lever.
if he's a new rider how would he know about not breaking formation and to follow the ride leader and not to pass the other riders in the group?

I'm not trying to say it's your fault, but it isn't his fault in my opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm trying to picture the scenario like this:

You are in front, he is behind you either directly behind or slightly to your left.

You approach the speed bump at a relatively slow speed and you move to the right to go around the bump and to put yourself in place to make a nice left turn from the far right of the street.

He sees you go to the right but he doesn't know you're going to turn left.

So now here is where it doesn't make sense to me and would explain everything. Was he so close behind you that you cut him off when you made your left turn? Did you make it really fast thinking your ride was over so you could kind of speed up and make the turn faster than the group to get to where you're going? Did you not use your blinker or turn your head to your left to check that traffic was clear? Were you expecting him to follow directly behind you and do exactly what you were doing?

At the same time...did he try to speed up in order to pass you on your left? Was he not paying attention and looking somewhere else when you started your turn? How fast was everyone really going?

If I was him and I was a new rider I would be going very very slow. And I would not have been following you so closely. If I had seen you move to the side I probably would have followed you as long as you weren't doing something above my skill level. I would have my eyes on you and if I had seen you start the left turn I would slow down and stop if it seemed like we were going to hit. Now if you had cut me off and we hit or I layed my bike down by stopping too fast I would have blamed you. If you cut me off and layed down your bike to not hit me I still would have blamed you for cutting me off.

Sorry if it's too long, I'm just trying to get the clear picture of what happened. You said he's going to pay for repairs so that's cool. I hope you guys get it all straightened out and it doesn't impact your friendship at all.

Agree with yorchi here. Seems like you failed to communicate your intentions to a clearly inexperienced rider. I don't think most people would expect a sharp left when you pull to the right side of the street.

Y'all are overthinking this. When you're following someone to a practice are, you follow. You don't try to pass the person you're following.

And don't get mad on anyone else's behalf - the OP himself said he's not "particularly" mad, and it sounds like they've worked out who's paying for what.

Agree with yorchi here. Seems like you failed to communicate your intentions to a clearly inexperienced rider. I don't think most people would expect a sharp left when you pull to the right side of the street.
If a car had done that we'd all be pissed that he didn't check his blind spot and made a sharp left turn from the far right of the street...same as people who cut across all lanes and make a right turn when they're sitting in the left turn lane, or get in the right turn only lane but then move to the left to go straight at the very last minute...like who does that?

You both made mistakes...he shouldnt have broken formation and gotten along side you, and you should have used your blinker or signalled to others that you were turning.

Y'all are overthinking this. When you're following someone to a practice are, you follow. You don't try to pass the person you're following.

And don't get mad on anyone else's behalf - the OP himself said he's not "particularly" mad, and it sounds like they've worked out who's paying for what.

The way I'm picturing this in my head is that the op slowed down to go around the speed bump and prepping for the turn while the other guy maintained a constant speed so it seemed like he was passing. May not have happened like that but that's just how I see it happening from the first post.

First and foremost, I dont know that I didnt use my blinker. The other 3 people there dont remember either.

Second YOU DON'T ACCELERATE INTO A SPEED BUMP. That's asinine. You definitely don't do it in an attempt to pass someone when you are 6 days into your learners. The errors are as follows regardless of signal.

1. You dont pass the leader as a learner.
2. You dont accelerate into and over a speed bump.


More importantly, he understands what breaking formation did. He learned a lesson. I am not terribly hurt. Its water under the bridge.

That being said, when i teach people I dont leave a lot of room for error. Dont break formation is a big one. I have a class M that rides in back to watch what they do while riding and I ride Point to watch for anything coming.

My honest guess is he was being cute and trying to pass like he occasionally likes to do on the open road because he is getting more comfortable and starting to speed when he can.

Usually its harmless, this time it wasnt. Lesson learned. case closed. I just thought i would share.

however as stated above, when your learning you stay behind the one teaching you. the other learner with us did. we also avoid the speed bumps in the development because they are high and you scrape every time. He has been back here before 5 days in a row. He chose not to go around this time which is unusual as he normally does go around with us. I think it was just a stupid move and thats the end of it.

The way I'm picturing this in my head is that the op slowed down to go around the speed bump and prepping for the turn while the other guy maintained a constant speed so it seemed like he was passing. May not have happened like that but that's just how I see it happening from the first post.

Thats where your wrong, I didnt slow at all. When i go around the bumps I maintain about 15 or so MPH If i hit the bumps I do it at 2 -3. My friend came over the bump at 15-20.

Typically none of us slow if we go around the bump but all do if we hit it. He did not slow while going over the bump. This is where the problem happens. he was going over the speed bump at a higher rate of speed than me avoiding it never having slowed down. Meaning he accelerated to a higher speed than I was originally doing. Ill post a diagram shortly.

Does that clear it up?

I think that people continue to post because they are not sure that the lesson has been learned, and the case isn't closed. My take on it is that he likely did something silly, but whenever I hear the phrase "I had to lay it down", I immediately discount the rest of the accident description. (with the one exception of someone finding themselves in a movie stunt and coming up to that tractor trailer sideways and they artfully put the bike on the ground so they can slide under unscathed). Otherwise, it was just the last wrong choice in a likely string of them.

It's up to all of us to avoid all of the rest of us no matter what silly things they may do. Talking about "formation" and what he should have done or not done in a group ride that would allow you to turn in front of him without consequences, isn't what I'd take out of this incident. :2cents:

In the end, as i said. The lesson was learned. I survived. He agrees that it was his error. I think this will make him more careful from here forward. Short of taking a day off work to recover nothing was lost.

Freinds still and no one permanently hurt. Thats what matters. amirite?

Thanks for sharing... too bad you had to lay down your bike, hope you and your bike get back to fully running soon :)

I am kinda curious though as to why you choose that option?

When only doing 15MPH, seems like that slow would be easy to stop or swerve.
However, you only thought/or at least gave us, 2 options t-bone or lay it down, just curious as to what lead to those 2 being the only options?

When I came around the other side of the bump, he was right there. He was scarily close. I hit the brake which slowed me enough to avoid hitting him which is what put me down. We missed colliding by inches I didn't think I could avoid him. At the moment I am glad I did as both of us would have been hurt and bikes damaged far worse.

Its hard to describe the small distance we are talking about. In the diagram, I would be blue. Taking the normal path that we always take. ( including the new friend ) Orange being the friend, green being the GF who has been riding a week longer than the friend, and the other class M in red.

Generally making a left there is a pain in the ass with the speed bump so close to the turn. So we usually avoid it always going to the right near the cars as there is 3-4 feet of space. No one likes the second speed bump either so we usually avoid it since we live on the road to the left around where the blue line stops. Bike Parking is also where the blue line stops. Technically you can go straight and wrap around, but its longer and has the additional speed bump.

Keep in mind that we do this every day as we all ride and me, the GF and the other Class M all live together. Its very normal for us all as its an everyday or nearly everyday coinsurance.

My guess is that he was trying to catch me and neglected that we all usually make the left. Forgetting happens, and in this case life goes on.

this would of been a great video to post on youtube if someone had a helmet cam and recorded the whole thing...

Did you signal your turn? Whether it be a hand signal or lighted turn signal you should have signalled your intentions. I never understood the option for people to lay the bike down, my step brother used the excuse twice when he laid down his bike that it was the only option :confused:. I just don't get it...

Did you signal your turn? Whether it be a hand signal or lighted turn signal you should have signalled your intentions. I never understood the option for people to lay the bike down, my step brother used the excuse twice when he laid down his bike that it was the only option :confused:. I just don't get it...

your right, I didnt have to lay it down. The other option was to hit my friend and hurt us both. I would like to think I chose the better option.

your right, I didnt have to lay it down. The other option was to hit my friend and hurt us both. I would like to think I chose the better option.

I wasn't trying to say you did the wrong thing; of the two options you gave, you obviously chose the correct one. I'm not questioning your judgement or saying that you should have let your 2 bikes collide. I really hope you get your bike back to tip top shape asap. The one thing I've never understood is why people crashing say there only other option was too lay the bike down (rather than hit someone or something). I can't think of any normal circumstance that would require me to lay down my bike. I apologize for my last post angering you because that honestly wasn't my intention. I wasn't there to see what happened so nothing I could say would fit the circumstances that led to your crash; I was just curious about the details that ultimately led you to lay down your bike.

I would think braking until impact is "proper" thing to do. I would rather impact at 10mph vs. 50mph. With good braking, one can scrub a lot of speed off in a short distance. Go back to your MSF class, where you accelerated to 18mph and stopped within a set of cones 15 feet apart.

But from where I see it, If the bike had enough time to come to a stop while sliding in your students direction. Then it should have been able to come to a stop with the wheels on the ground. I would think tires offer more braking potential than fairings and mirrors.

Having said that, I know there are situations where letting go would be the proper thing to do. I don't want to ride off a cliff. I do applaud your sacrifice for others, but when teaching you can't take anything for granted.

Best of luck to you!

I wasn't trying to say you did the wrong thing; of the two options you gave, you obviously chose the correct one. I'm not questioning your judgement or saying that you should have let your 2 bikes collide. I really hope you get your bike back to tip top shape asap. The one thing I've never understood is why people crashing say there only other option was too lay the bike down (rather than hit someone or something). I can't think of any normal circumstance that would require me to lay down my bike. I apologize for my last post angering you because that honestly wasn't my intention. I wasn't there to see what happened so nothing I could say would fit the circumstances that led to your crash; I was just curious about the details that ultimately led you to lay down your bike.

not angry at all. unfortunately until your in the situation where going down or causing more damage or you and the bike happens. you don't get it. I like you have always thought the same. Keep it rubber side down. I would prefer a KITT turbo jump button however my bike didnt have one stock.

My point being, i agree untill your faced with a try to stop and minimize damage or ram what ever is in front of you situation you probably will always believe you can make better decisions. Sadly its just not always the case. Generally I have fun on the road I wrecked on. In this case everything was by the book but something bad happened anyway.

I would think braking until impact is "proper" thing to do. I would rather impact at 10mph vs. 50mph. With good braking, one can scrub a lot of speed off in a short distance. Go back to your MSF class, where you accelerated to 18mph and stopped within a set of cones 15 feet apart.

But from where I see it, If the bike had enough time to come to a stop while sliding in your students direction. Then it should have been able to come to a stop with the wheels on the ground. I would think tires offer more braking potential than fairings and mirrors.

The bike didn't slide in his direction then stop before hitting him. We had I would say less than 2 feet between us when I tried to stop and went down. my Immediate deceleration prevented my bike from hitting his and he continued forward and stopped on his own to check on me, mine went down immediately due to the immediate deceleration while leaning ( me and the bike). Given the distances involved there wasn't a lot of room for quick deceleration especially with me in a Lean to the left. In fact as i recall from MSF hard braking in a turn is a NO NO unless unavoidable.


Having said that, I know there are situations where letting go would be the proper thing to do. I don't want to ride off a cliff. I do applaud your sacrifice for others, but when teaching you can't take anything for granted.

Best of luck to you!

I agree, some situations you gamble with what is the right thing to do. In my case I think I did the best I could with the given hand, and thank you.

he is coming up here tonight, he wants to go on a 20 mile trip without his M present to goto a bar. I am tempted to take one of the other bikes and go with him just in case. Im not a fan of skirting the law let alone taking chances.

One thing I don't get...when people say "I layed down my bike to avoid a crash"...doesn't using your brakes slow you down a lot faster than dropping the bike?

Least that's what I thought....

the most simple way to explain it is applied the brakes enough that he passed by me without hitting each other, however it was also hard enough that since i was already leaning and in the middle of a left turn the bike also fell. My options were to hit him or the brakes. I guess technically there was some magic amount of force to apply that may have avoided both scenarios, however with 2 feet between us when this became an issue there wasn't a whole lot of time to worry about making it our unscathed. It's more reaction to avoid slamming into someone and hurting you them and the bike. Low siding it definitely is preferable to collision.

Simple physics explain it all. If bike is leaning left and bike slows down, if bike can't maintain gyroscopic force, bike falls down goes boom.