[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by kazam58

I use it when I'm not downshifting. The engine braking on the 250R is plenty. But around town I don't engine brake much, I just pull in the clutch lever, coast to a stop and use both brakes. In the twisties and going faster I'm teaching myself not to use the rear brake at all. It just makes things easier

Originally Posted by Angel-be-Good

I use a lot of rear braking, but never when I'm trying to kill a lot of speed in a short amount of time. It's usually used to modulate speed in a parking lot where my right hand is more concerned with delicate throttle, or bringing it down a notch if I find I've brought my cruising speed higher than I want--generally I find it lazier to apply rear brake instead of stretching my fingers for the front, so if the situation only calls for a bit of scrubbing I'll go for the rear. If I want to stop quickly, like for a stop light, entering a corner fast or to avoid some yay-hoo that pulls in my way, it's almost 100% front brake with a hint of rear.

Originally Posted by Purspeed

Most modern bikes get 100% braking from the front. Think stoppies. The friction of the tires to the road is the biggest factor in reducing braking distance. So, tire technology is key for improvement in braking (other than thermal conductivity in transforming mechanical energy into heat within the brake pads, calipers, floating rotors, etc.).

When you begin to brake (by either squeezing the front or rear brake lever on a motorcycle) weight shifts to the front of the bike. This prevents one from locking the brake.

This is why using the rear brake as a standalone brake is not suggested. It locks far too easy because the weight will transfer to the front of the bike rapidly causing the rear to lock.

So, if you first apply the rear brake, you shift weight to the front (in race applications, you are either accelerating, braking or turning 100%...or a combo thereof), and then apply the front brake now that the weight is shifted.

Some experts argue that you do not need to use any brakes at all (think Valentino Rossi & Keith Code) when corner carving or that braking doesn't give you a net lower lap time. But, for those of us mere mortals, tapping the front or rear brake (I like rear because that is weighted before I begin the braking process) transfers weight to the front and then you can firmly squeeze the front brake for maximum braking potential (engine braking not included).

Any input in the bike can potentially be a destabilizing force (things in motion tend to like being in motion...newton, et all), so being smooth with your inputs is key.

If you are coming out of a turn, the oscilllaitons from the "third" spring (the frame) depending on the material, structure and inherent dampening abilities of said stuff may unsettle the rear (you see this in racing quite a bit...not so much with 250GP though), but this would not relate to braking too much.

The rear is unsettled by friction loss (fore aft) and the tire searching for friction with lateral movements. This happens in both acceleration and braking.

When forcefully braking, using the rear brake can settle things a bit, as well.

Most MotoGP racers do not use their rear brakes, however...69 Hayden does though (and considered a bit strange by that virtue) but that has a lot to do with his roots in dirtbike riding...KEntucky.

Originally Posted by Purspeed

You're correct in that using the front brake will shift weight faster (for several reasons), but most folks do not have the proper skills to do this. Sometimes I get lazy and just use the rear brake to shift weight, that's all.

The oscillations while in the turn including the friction gains/losses to the rear front while maximizing speed, avoiding collision and keeping the guy behind you behind you and avoiding a low side from front or rear slide or highside makes this high speed ballet an interesting one for the bike's chassis.

The chassis design element is the one most complex and misunderstood, even for the world's experts. Since the chassis has no dampening abilities (other than the max loads of the inherent material or design), the tires have to deal with this chaotic load coming out of a turn (in most cases). Braking may help or cause a highside. Some rudimentary traction control devices are being developed to help prevent this.

Nicky is crashing and losing in part because of the electronics. He's fighting them and is not comfortable with them at this time. I hope he sorts this out by next year.

Originally Posted by NaughtyusMaximus

I was taught to apply the rear brake slightly before applying the front, in order to aid with (and forgive me if this is the wrong term) setting the load on the front to shape the tire properly before fully applying the front brakes. I think this fits in with what Purspeed is saying.

Now I know why so many people are crashing!