ninjette.org - View Single Post - Area P - Group Buy

kbryant · April 25th, 2014, 08:03 PM

Ok no issues or problem.

To address your question about which Tuning platform may or may not be better for you to consider.

ECU Reflash -

PRO -
Can't think of any really tangible benefits, over a piggyback unit. Less initial investment is one benefit I guess. But it is very cumbersome overall from my standpoint because you "get what you get" when they send it back to you. I'm not trying to bash it. I just simply happen to have about 30 years worth of tuning knowledge with Dynojet. And I don't say that sarcastically. Only that I know what the Dynojet based platforms are capable of.

And quite honestly, getting back to one of your questions about running them in tandem - I've had several bikes in for exhaust systems that had reflashes and we were able to actually improve the A/F curve and throttle response by adding the Micro Programmer and/or other Dynojet module. The bikes ran ok when they came in. They ran better when they left. But to be perfectly honest, the Micro Programmer could have done that on it's own with the un-flashed ECU.

CONS -
1. Your warranty is very likely voided if detected and related to any issue that may arrise that can even remotely be tied into it. I've heard of people sending them back in for a "un-flash" when they want warranty work on something major. But I don't believe it has been proven that the "un-flash" does not leave a "foot-print" of manipulation to the ECU codes.

2. You have to remove it, send it in, hope that you get your actual unit returned. Hope your unit does not get lost. Your bike is down.

3. Hope that they do not damage your ECU.

4. What exactly is their data mapping based on and what experience do they actually have? Are they "generic" flashings? Are they basing it on locations, mods, etc.? The 300 is an open loop tuning platform. Fairly close A/F curves based on both throttle position and rpm are important because of very narrow perimeters.

5. You have to return it if you want changes. Are "re-flashes" free? See point #2.

6. If your ECU fails for any reason, because of it being flashed, you're stuck.

7. If there is any issue with your ECU, because of a flash, will they be there for you to replace it at no charge?

8. How long have they been around and will they be there "tomorrow" for you?

9. If you sell the bike and want to put it back to stock, you'll have to return the ECU for another reflash just to sell the bike in good running condition.

Ok I'll stop there for now.

Fuel Moto Micro Programmer -

Cons -
1. You are adding another device that could potentially fail. But it so very rare, it renders that point almost moot.

2. It is more expensive initially than the Flash (from what I understand).

3. There is so much Tuning potential to a Dynojet product platform, you can get yourself in trouble if you start making adjustments without understanding what you are doing.

4. Added about 6 oz of weight and lose about a 2"x3" space in your seat cowl area.

Pros -

1. No warranty issues from a piggyback programmer being added (I have yet to see one in over 30 years of working with KMC on various projects).

2. Plug and play. No need to remove and/or send in your ECU.

3. If the unit failed out on the road, you can unplug it, and get home.

4. 2 year warranty.

5. Free lifetime Map support from Area P and/or Fuel Moto. Live Tuning, Maps E-mailed, etc.

6. Multiple maps can be loaded for various mods and/or conditions.

7. User friendly tuning platform on both external adjustments and/or provided CD software through your laptop/computer.

8. Proven Dyno tested results and a large and continuing data base of Maps. Even moreso if you purchase an exhaust that was specifically designed with that tuning platform.

9. Area P has been around since 2003, and specializing in the 250/300 ninjas since day one. Fuel Moto has been around for a similar amount of time and is absolutely, bar-none, the industry leader in FI tuning. They have specific Dyno developed Maps for the 300 and have worked extensively and exclusively with Area P during the R&D process. We're both going to "be here tomorrow".

10. Return on investment - If you sell the bike, pull the unit and sell it separately and/or ease of putting the bike back to stock condition.

At the end of the day - if you decide at some point in time to specifically purchase an Area P Exhaust System, there is nobody on the planet that knows what it does, what it can do, and what is required to tune it correctly, other than Area P. And if you decide to purchase another brand of exhaust, well in many cases, we may even know a little bit more than the actual manufacture about making their product work even better.

Especially as noted previously, that the majority of those manufactures did no mapping adjustments whatsoever during their initial "R&D" efforts.

April 25th, 2014, 08:03 PM	#130
kbryant Area P Name: Kerry Location: SoCal & South Florida Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439	Ok no issues or problem. To address your question about which Tuning platform may or may not be better for you to consider. ECU Reflash - PRO - Can't think of any really tangible benefits, over a piggyback unit. Less initial investment is one benefit I guess. But it is very cumbersome overall from my standpoint because you "get what you get" when they send it back to you. I'm not trying to bash it. I just simply happen to have about 30 years worth of tuning knowledge with Dynojet. And I don't say that sarcastically. Only that I know what the Dynojet based platforms are capable of. And quite honestly, getting back to one of your questions about running them in tandem - I've had several bikes in for exhaust systems that had reflashes and we were able to actually improve the A/F curve and throttle response by adding the Micro Programmer and/or other Dynojet module. The bikes ran ok when they came in. They ran better when they left. But to be perfectly honest, the Micro Programmer could have done that on it's own with the un-flashed ECU. CONS - 1. Your warranty is very likely voided if detected and related to any issue that may arrise that can even remotely be tied into it. I've heard of people sending them back in for a "un-flash" when they want warranty work on something major. But I don't believe it has been proven that the "un-flash" does not leave a "foot-print" of manipulation to the ECU codes. 2. You have to remove it, send it in, hope that you get your actual unit returned. Hope your unit does not get lost. Your bike is down. 3. Hope that they do not damage your ECU. 4. What exactly is their data mapping based on and what experience do they actually have? Are they "generic" flashings? Are they basing it on locations, mods, etc.? The 300 is an open loop tuning platform. Fairly close A/F curves based on both throttle position and rpm are important because of very narrow perimeters. 5. You have to return it if you want changes. Are "re-flashes" free? See point #2. 6. If your ECU fails for any reason, because of it being flashed, you're stuck. 7. If there is any issue with your ECU, because of a flash, will they be there for you to replace it at no charge? 8. How long have they been around and will they be there "tomorrow" for you? 9. If you sell the bike and want to put it back to stock, you'll have to return the ECU for another reflash just to sell the bike in good running condition. Ok I'll stop there for now. Fuel Moto Micro Programmer - Cons - 1. You are adding another device that could potentially fail. But it so very rare, it renders that point almost moot. 2. It is more expensive initially than the Flash (from what I understand). 3. There is so much Tuning potential to a Dynojet product platform, you can get yourself in trouble if you start making adjustments without understanding what you are doing. 4. Added about 6 oz of weight and lose about a 2"x3" space in your seat cowl area. Pros - 1. No warranty issues from a piggyback programmer being added (I have yet to see one in over 30 years of working with KMC on various projects). 2. Plug and play. No need to remove and/or send in your ECU. 3. If the unit failed out on the road, you can unplug it, and get home. 4. 2 year warranty. 5. Free lifetime Map support from Area P and/or Fuel Moto. Live Tuning, Maps E-mailed, etc. 6. Multiple maps can be loaded for various mods and/or conditions. 7. User friendly tuning platform on both external adjustments and/or provided CD software through your laptop/computer. 8. Proven Dyno tested results and a large and continuing data base of Maps. Even moreso if you purchase an exhaust that was specifically designed with that tuning platform. 9. Area P has been around since 2003, and specializing in the 250/300 ninjas since day one. Fuel Moto has been around for a similar amount of time and is absolutely, bar-none, the industry leader in FI tuning. They have specific Dyno developed Maps for the 300 and have worked extensively and exclusively with Area P during the R&D process. We're both going to "be here tomorrow". 10. Return on investment - If you sell the bike, pull the unit and sell it separately and/or ease of putting the bike back to stock condition. At the end of the day - if you decide at some point in time to specifically purchase an Area P Exhaust System, there is nobody on the planet that knows what it does, what it can do, and what is required to tune it correctly, other than Area P. And if you decide to purchase another brand of exhaust, well in many cases, we may even know a little bit more than the actual manufacture about making their product work even better. Especially as noted previously, that the majority of those manufactures did no mapping adjustments whatsoever during their initial "R&D" efforts.