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Lowspeed Lowside · April 24th, 2011, 12:55 AM

I searched the forum and the wiki, but the only information I found was pretty much limited to "here's a video of a turbocharged a 250r", cool huh?

Although this thread is primarily speculative[1], we do know that many people won't be riding several weeks during the winter season, which means we have roughly seven months time to search for a practical solution.

Under the assumption[2] that our own labor is free, we have the right tools and know how to use them, the first thing we need to do is set two constraints, which I'll (rather arbitrarily) set at $1000 and 33kw. In other words, our goal is to maximize power @ $1000 or minimize cost @33kw or anything in between. I have tried to make all cost guesstimates conservative.

Suggested homework for any n00b (like me) wishing to contribute:

1. Theory (it took me ~6 hours to familiarize myself with the subject matter. I had to follow a lot of external links about stuff I didn't know beans about, freshen up my knowledge of the ideal-gas-laws, etc.):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressor_map

2. Thought-experimenting (~1 hour):

http://dairally.net/daihard/chas/Mis...s/DaiTurbo.htm

3. Find a problem that has been overlooked and propose a solution!

So far I've come to the following conclusions:

The GT12 turbocharger the other guys used is inappropriate for the task. According to http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/Tu.../ihi_specs.gif and http://dairally.net/daihard/chas/Mis...s/DaiTurbo.htm, I suspect (caveat: I have not been able to find a compressor map and this is the only source I found) that the RHF3 could be almost ideal. Unfortunately, I was only able to find one supplier http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/25...bocharger.html. Although they *claim* a minimum order quantity of 50 pieces @ <$210/piece, and they can only make 100 pieces per month, I very much doubt they wouldn't happily send anyone a one piece sample for $500 including shipping. If not, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there are at least 50 enthusiasts among which one has enough business-sense to realize that ordering 50 @ $250 (incl. S&H) and selling them individually for $350 (excl. S&H) results in a profit of $5000. A slightly used one is/was available on eBay for $399. Guesstimated cost of the turbocharger: $400.
We just *might* be able to keep the high stock compression ratio, if we use commercially available gas with the highest octane rating AND manage to get really, really, really and when I say really, I in fact mean really good intercooling. One thing I've noticed about one existing solution, is that it involved cramming a minuscule 10"x10" intercooler in front (!) of the engine cooler. Whereas, I think the picture we should have in mind is two huge coolers - one on each side - in series, mounted at an angle, possibly with fins or scoops redirecting large quantities of air through them. Although this would require cutting out large portions of the side fairings, one would get a set of frame sliders gratis. :-) Guesstimated cost for the intercoolers: ~$300. Note: some suppliers are even willing to do a bit of customizing: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?...xt=intercooler.
If great cooling and high octane gas is still expected to result in detonation, I think the cheapest way to reduce the compression ratio would be to adjust the cams and delay the closing of the intake valves.
Guesstimated weight added by turbocharger: ~10lbs.
Guesstimated weight added by intercoolers: ~30lbs.
Theoretical max. power: 75kw
We have ~$300 for pipes, tubes, air-filters, valves, clamps, oil-lines, 'n' other stuff like a stronger clutch.
Conversion to fuel injection is prohibitively expensive, so we'll need futz around with the carburetors. A lot. It would be very helpful if someone could report that Walmart is selling a suitable $20-gizmo that has a couple of plastic dials and is installed by incantation.
I have no clue what to do about the exhaust and how far the stock system could be pushed before it melts/explodes/gets-a-restraining-order.
Adding 10% weight to the bike will change the handling characteristics; I'd consider refueling every 60 miles an option.
Having an additional 3 gears would be nice. The fun of shifting into 9th gear at 140mph should take your mind off the fact that you virtually have no brakes to slow the bike down from 141mph and a front suspension that gives the word 'scary' a new meaning.

[1]Full disclosure: I'm a member of MENSA, so unfortunately I tend enjoy figuring out how to solve a problem much more than actually solving a problem.
[2]Eeek! I also have a degree in economics, so I'm weird *and* boring! Go figure.

April 24th, 2011, 12:55 AM	#1
Lowspeed Lowside Tightwad Tinker Name: Hans Location: Lexington, Ky Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250R Posts: 161	turbo / turbocharger / turbocharging I searched the forum and the wiki, but the only information I found was pretty much limited to "here's a video of a turbocharged a 250r", cool huh? Although this thread is primarily speculative[1], we do know that many people won't be riding several weeks during the winter season, which means we have roughly seven months time to search for a practical solution. Under the assumption[2] that our own labor is free, we have the right tools and know how to use them, the first thing we need to do is set two constraints, which I'll (rather arbitrarily) set at $1000 and 33kw. In other words, our goal is to maximize power @ $1000 or minimize cost @33kw or anything in between. I have tried to make all cost guesstimates conservative. Suggested homework for any n00b (like me) wishing to contribute: 1. Theory (it took me ~6 hours to familiarize myself with the subject matter. I had to follow a lot of external links about stuff I didn't know beans about, freshen up my knowledge of the ideal-gas-laws, etc.): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressor_map 2. Thought-experimenting (~1 hour): http://dairally.net/daihard/chas/Mis...s/DaiTurbo.htm 3. Find a problem that has been overlooked and propose a solution! So far I've come to the following conclusions: The GT12 turbocharger the other guys used is inappropriate for the task. According to http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/Tu.../ihi_specs.gif and http://dairally.net/daihard/chas/Mis...s/DaiTurbo.htm, I suspect (caveat: I have not been able to find a compressor map and this is the only source I found) that the RHF3 could be almost ideal. Unfortunately, I was only able to find one supplier http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/25...bocharger.html. Although they claim a minimum order quantity of 50 pieces @ <$210/piece, and they can only make 100 pieces per month, I very much doubt they wouldn't happily send anyone a one piece sample for $500 including shipping. If not, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there are at least 50 enthusiasts among which one has enough business-sense to realize that ordering 50 @ $250 (incl. S&H) and selling them individually for $350 (excl. S&H) results in a profit of $5000. A slightly used one is/was available on eBay for $399. Guesstimated cost of the turbocharger: $400. We just might be able to keep the high stock compression ratio, if we use commercially available gas with the highest octane rating AND manage to get really, really, really and when I say *really, I in fact mean really* good intercooling. One thing I've noticed about one existing solution, is that it involved cramming a minuscule 10"x10" intercooler in front (!) of the engine cooler. Whereas, I think the picture we should have in mind is two huge coolers - one on each side - in series, mounted at an angle, possibly with fins or scoops redirecting large quantities of air through them. Although this would require cutting out large portions of the side fairings, one would get a set of frame sliders gratis. :-) Guesstimated cost for the intercoolers: ~$300. Note: some suppliers are even willing to do a bit of customizing: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?...xt=intercooler. If great cooling and high octane gas is still expected to result in detonation, I think the cheapest way to reduce the compression ratio would be to adjust the cams and delay the closing of the intake valves. Guesstimated weight added by turbocharger: ~10lbs. Guesstimated weight added by intercoolers: ~30lbs. Theoretical max. power: 75kw We have ~$300 for pipes, tubes, air-filters, valves, clamps, oil-lines, 'n' other stuff like a stronger clutch. Conversion to fuel injection is prohibitively expensive, so we'll need futz around with the carburetors. A lot. It would be very helpful if someone could report that Walmart is selling a suitable $20-gizmo that has a couple of plastic dials and is installed by incantation. I have no clue what to do about the exhaust and how far the stock system could be pushed before it melts/explodes/gets-a-restraining-order. Adding 10% weight to the bike will change the handling characteristics; I'd consider refueling every 60 miles an option. Having an additional 3 gears would be nice. The fun of shifting into 9th gear at 140mph should take your mind off the fact that you virtually have no brakes to slow the bike down from 141mph and a front suspension that gives the word 'scary' a new meaning. [1]Full disclosure: I'm a member of MENSA, so unfortunately I tend enjoy figuring out how to solve a problem much more than actually solving a problem. [2]Eeek! I also have a degree in economics, so I'm weird and boring! Go figure.