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Old November 2nd, 2015, 05:55 AM   #52
tgold
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike

Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
For full disclosure and all readers. I have had more than my fair share of pucker uncomfortable moments, true dat!

/modesty off
I will however clarify though... as ya'lls (many, many ninjette members) have followed me over the past 5yrs since I have been a member here, 120+ track days, 50+ races (mostly podiums, DAMN MCRA!!!!), 80+ riders helped with -10sec lap times, without incident. My pucker moments/crashes are from mistakes in my riding, not because I was pushing my or anyone else's personal limits.

Timm's comments have real significance yes, I agreed. Right or wrong, I am just not sure it matches what trackday/race orgs are currently presenting if you go for a track school tomorrow. Every one that I have attended or queried has said to ride within your limits, yes... even race school. Which would include MotoSeries, Timm's (and mine) own local race org. (too personal???? Sorry....) Sorry mang, we will just have to agree to disagree on how to get fast.

I don't mean to call you out Timm, just pointing out what is currently going on. I swear... we can still have beers, laugh and cut up just like any other, that's how I roll.
/modesty back on
Chris, with your experience and the reputation and rapport that you have on this forum, I sincerely hope that the things that you say will continue to be given proper consideration by the members here. There is much for them to gain from you.

I certainly don't want to get into a contest about who is more qualified to make comments on the subject at hand, but I make my comments based on 30-plus years of roadracing with wins, a championship, and some race instruction along the way.

We make mistakes when we are at our personal limits. There is no way to separate mistakes from those limits. Even further: If we crash when we reach the limits of our bike, it is still because we have reached our personal limit as a rider and we are unable to deal with the situation at hand. A classic example: "I crashed because of cold tires." A more appropriate statement would be: "I crashed because I went too fast on cold tires. Then there's the classic "I ran out of tire" as if it was the tire's fault. No, the more appropriate statement would be: "I leaned over too far". It is our job to know the temperature of our tires and ride appropriately. The sooner we understand that we are personally responsible for every aspect of our riding, the better.

The idea of riding within our limits is the one to have when we are around other riders. this is obviously because a mistake could take another rider out. Sure, we don't want to do that. It might be more appropriately said: "Don't ride ride way over your head" The problem is when riders try to make a huge improvement all at once and they (and others) reap the resulting unanticipated effects ending in a crash.

So I suggest probing of those limits gradually when not in the immediate vicinity of other riders.

I made my comments in the most straightforward way I know about finding the limits because the question that Ducati999 asked was about finding the limits. This approach has worked for me for a very long time. I remember this sort of thing happening in turn 13 at Nelson Ledges a while back. I knew the I was putting a lot of pressure on the front tire going deep into the turn and I could feel the front protesting a bit. So I told myself: "It's no good for my knee to be 4" off pavement if the front lets go. I won't be able to react in time...I'm going to plant my knee on the deck every time to be ready if the front slides." Sure enough, eventually the front had a pretty good slide, but my knee was there to take the pressure off the front, I held the throttle steady and recovered from the slide. No big deal. I am an average racer and that was one of the events that demonstrated to me what an average guy can do with practice. Full disclosure: Nowadays, I do take that corner differently and I try to not put so much weight on the front tire.

Make your improvements in small increments because that way you aren't surprised by what the bike does as you approach the limits.

The mental aspect of riding is my favorite part of track riding/racing and I certainly look forward to talking about this stuff with you Chris. I'll have some cold Blue Moon waiting in the fridge

Last futzed with by tgold; November 2nd, 2015 at 07:12 AM.
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